When did you realize Legalism is the classical-Chinese-philosophy

Rule of law ignores context and is therefore inhumane. If you can't see the problems of a society run by the rule of law just look at America today.

Fuck you
t. tao master race

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>>3216849
>Master race.
>Only influences one (1) dynasty.
Go to bed, Shang Yang, lfuckinmao

>>3216853
>Rule of law ignores context and is therefore inhumane.
"In a strict household there are no unruly [people], but the children of a kindly mother often turn out bad. From this I know that power and authority can prevent violence, but kindness and generosity are insufficient to put an end to violence."
-Han Fei
>If you can't see the problems of a society run by the rule of law just look at America today.
The US is a terrible example because it is obscurantist in terms of law...there are thousands of contradictory and vaguely-worded rules and regulations, and the legal profession depends on twisting words and finding loopholes. This is not rule of law in a Chinese legalist sense
"If you do not speak in terms that any man and woman can plainly understand...you will defeat your own efforts at rule. Subtle and mysterious words are no business of the people."
-Han Fei

>>3216862
>>Only influences one (1) dynasty.
"John Man describes the early Mao as a "dyed-in-the-wool" Legalist or "Lord Shang-style 'sage ruler', who defined the law according to revolutionary needs. The Communists would use the Fa-Jia in their criticism of Confucianism.. During the 1950 the PRC combined law with campaigns against political enemies...

[Legalism] again gained prominent attention in the 1970s after the Cultural Revolution, in Deng Xiaoping's platform for modernization...

Legalist discourse saw a resurgence during the leadership of Xi Jinping, who is the General Secretary of the Communist Party of China, with Journalists reporting on his fondness for the Chinese classics, alongside Confucianism including Legalist writers and in particular Han Fei, both of which Xi sees as relevant. Han Fei gained new prominence with favourable citations. One sentence of Han Fei's that Xi quoted appeared thousands of times in official Chinese media at the local, provincial, and national levels."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(Chinese_philosophy)#Modern

Legalism is for Letzter Mensch.

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>>3216849
You're the autist.
>Not realizing that trying to achieve harmony by the implementation of rule of law by a strong, central government is futile without a good system of conduct between members and levels of society
>Not realizing the emperor is not only a mechanical arbiter of law but also the highest connection between Heaven and Man
>Not realizing that Man is not a mere animal bereft of logical comprehension and thus not only needs Law but also Rites, Music, and Virtue
>Not realizing good behavior through rewards and punishments should foremost be used as moral education, not as the primary means of social management in itself
t. Post-Dong Zhongshu Imperial master race

>>3216849
>>3216853
>>3216862
>>3216938
>>3216963
>>3216999
>>3217556
Shut the fuck up Chang
This is an American website

>>3218134
Reddit is "the" quintessential American website desu.

I mean, notice how my to be honest Acronym became desu. It's clearly a Japanese website.

I guess this is just as good a place to post this as any

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourses_on_Salt_and_Iron

The Discourses on Salt and Iron (Chinese: 鹽鐵論; pinyin: Yán Tiě Lùn) was a debate held at the imperial court in 81 BCE on state policy during the Han dynasty in China. The previous emperor, Emperor Wu, had reversed the laissez-faire policies of his predecessors and imposed a wide variety of state interventions, such as creating monopolies on China's salt and iron enterprises, price stabilization schemes, and taxes on capital. These actions sparked a fierce debate as to the policies of the Emperor. After his death, during the reign of Emperor Zhao of Han, the regent Huo Guang called on all the scholars of the empire to come to the capital, Chang'an, to debate the government's economic policies.

The debate was characterized by two opposing factions, the reformists and the modernists. The reformists were largely Confucian scholars who opposed the policies of Emperor Wu and demanded the abolition of the monopolies on salt and iron, an end to the state price stabilization schemes, and huge cuts in government expenditures to reduce the burden on the citizenry. The Modernists supported the continuation of Emperor Wu's policies in order to appropriate the profits of private merchants into state coffers to fund the government's military and colonization campaigns in the north and west.
I find it very fascinating that such a conversation over economics was occurring during classic antiquity what do you guys think of it?

>>3218134

And ripped from a japanese website and with a very heavy flavouring of japanese threads.

>>3216849

And what is Legalism?

Harsh and brutal punishments to foster fear for arbitrary rules that change on the whim of whoever is in charge at the time? Theres a reason Confucianism and Daoism are still very popular and relevant philosophies and legalism is dead.

>>3216849
>DAOISM: dude weed lmao
Kek. It pretty much just is Heraclitus on weed desu.

>>3216862
This tbqh

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>>3218167
I wouldn't necessarily say Legalism is dead. Its legacy lives on within various schools of Confucian thought and mainstream government behavior. But yes, it has long been dead as a unique tradition.

>>3218154
It really was a fascinating time in Chinese history. This debate not was only about economics but also a microcosm of the general situation of the Han Dynasty. Some aspects of the debate are very much relevant today.
For example, in foreign policy, the massive campaigns against the Xiongnu, who posed a major geopolitical threat to the west and north, required massive amounts of funding. The monopolies on salt and iron were thus imposed to generate the needed revenues. However, the reformers responded with questions such as: To what extent is a strong, proactive foreign policy justified? When should there be an escalation of warfare?
The Salt-Iron debate also brought up economics. The reformists protested that the trade brought in by securing the Silk Road mainly brought in access to frivolous luxury products (exotic fruits, jewelry, etc) only affordable by the rich. In contrast, they pointed out that iron and salt were necessities of life for all levels of society. By ending the expensive campaigns in the Western regions, they believed that the livelihoods of commoners would be benefited in exchange for ending what they saw as "benefits" which was highly wasteful. They also argued that the general well-being of the population would be better off if private enterprise in salt and iron took the reigns, selling cheaper and higher-quality items to the people. To further their arguments, the reformists further stated that the existing level of imposition of government control and regulations was too intrusive into the daily tranquility of people's livelihoods.

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>>3218995
Finally, it also touched upon political trends. Another reason why the monopolies were imposed was that overly landowners were constantly a thorn to state centralization throughout ancient Chinese history. During the Han, some merchants of the highly profitable salt and iron were becoming insanely powerful by making more money than the annual revenue of the state. However, in times of need, the government also found these same merchants to be highly jealous and protective of their immense profits. Moreover, using their profits, these rich landowners invested in buying vast tracts of land intended for independent farmers. These landowners thus no longer depended on the central government to sustain themselves and continually sheared off peasant tax revenues from the government, a crucial threat if allowed to compound. The Han, as an immense empire without modern means of communication, needed to keep local magnates under control at all costs. The avarice of such landlords led to resentment over the power of landlords and merchants, fueling the popularity of Wang Mang's usurpation. Even though the monopolies were defeated in the latter stages of Han rule, the view of the modernists should not be discarded as the victory of the reformists accelerated the depletion of central control and helped the rise of warlords who only nominally recognized the legitimacy Han court.

>>3218154
>I find it very fascinating that such a conversation over economics was occurring during classic antiquity what do you guys think of it?

The whole of human existence has been one of struggle between a central authority, and those who seek to be independent. For the good the tribe, the central authority must exert control and focus the wills of individuals to so that the tribe has a strength greater than the sum of its parts. However, not everyone wants to do what the central authority wants to do, nor are the projects which the central authority seeks to complete even worth the effort and time.

>>3218995
>They also argued that the general well-being of the population would be better off if private enterprise in salt and iron took the reigns, selling cheaper and higher-quality items to the people.

>Chinese Confucians saw the benefits of Free Market Capitalism, 10000 years ago, yet modern day statists are incapable of seeing its benefits.

打破旧世界!
没有共产党就没有新中国!

>>3219263

However, Ming China was hands off to the extent that they refused famine relief, believing the famines would sort themselves out. This contributed to the peasant rebellions that eventually overthrew the Ming.

>>3216849
Can somebody read this thingy?
>>3219362

>>3219244
I think it should be "...nor are the projects which the central authority seeks to complete NECESSARILY worth the effort and time".

>>3219263
As I've said above, letting the market run freely does have some disadvantages in areas besides economics. Letting business have too much influence over the country is not desirable in my perspective.

>>3219269
Sod off and worship your German autist. Communist historiography and economics are cancer-tier.

>>3219391
The closest character I can relate it to is "淸" which is a variant of "清" meaning pure or clear. However, the radical on the left looks like "丁" and some strokes are employed in an artistic style I'm not familiar with. Are you sure this is Chinese?

>>3219468
No im not sure... probably took the pic upside down :P
Cant confirm its origin.
All we know is that it was acquired by the family circa 1910~1920.

>>3219468
>>3219620
Thats the only thing writen on the vase.
>>3219696
>>3219691
>>3219671
>>3219660
>>3219387
>>3219362
Do you know where else can i ask around?

>>3219703
If it's upside down, it definitely is not Chinese. You can ask a Sinologist or a Chinese friend for more advice.