So when did lobbying become a thing in US politics and how did

"Washington makes an extended reference to the dangers of foreign nations who will seek to influence the American people and government; nations who may be considered friendly as well as nations considered enemies will equally try to influence the government to do their will. "Real patriots," he warns, who "resist the intrigues" of foreign nations may find themselves "suspected and odious" in the eyes of others, yet he urges the people to stand firm against such influences all the same. He portrays those who attempt to further such foreign interests as becoming the "tools and dupes" of those nations, stealing the applause and praise of their country away from the "real patriots" while actually working to "surrender" American interests to foreign nations. Washington had experience with foreign interference in 1793 when French ambassador Edmond-Charles Genêt organized American demonstrations in support of France, funded soldiers to attack Spanish lands, and commissioned privateers to seize British ships. Genêt's mobilization of supporters to sway American opinion in favor of an alliance with France angered President Washington who ordered him to leave."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington%27s_Farewell_Address#Foreign_relations_and_free_trade

>>3208889
Reminder that /pol/ is full of lobbyist scum.

>>3208889
If you have representative government, you're going to have lobbying. There's fundamentally no difference between any interest group you care to name and a concerned citizen writing his congressman about an issue and threatening not to vote for him again if he doesn't do something about it except scale.

AIPAC is far from the most influential lobby there is. Hell, there's zero correlation between U.S. mid-east policy shifts and AIPAC spending or efforts. If they really controlled the U.S. government, you'd think the Americans wouldn't send all that money to places like Egypt and Lebanon. Things like Agribusiness are way more influential, and nobody talks about that.

>>3210956
>There's fundamentally no difference between any interest group you care to name and a concerned citizen writing his congressman
Except money, access to said politician and chance to actually influence said politician.

>>3210956
>Things like Agribusiness are way more influential, and nobody talks about that.
I think the biggest and most influential lobby at the moment is the financial lobby.

>>3210999
So again, the KIND of action isn't wrong, just the scale of the action. Having a X amount of chance of influencing a politician is acceptable, but having more than X is not.

>>3211012
Don't you think that a group of people can circumvent the democratic process by paying big amelikan dorra to a lobbying firm that then goes and gets their legislation through because said firm has more possibilities to contact and push their (paid-for) viewpoint through than Concerned McCitizen?

>>3211026
Don't you think it's fucked*

>>3211026
It's not circumventing the democratic process. It is entirely part of the democratic process to attempt to apply specific interests of a given sub-set of the polity to their representatives.

All that "lobbying firm" is is a collection of people who have some degree of organization and funding. It's no different than if you get a large group of randos on the street together and got them to chip in cash and organize themselves for a political end.

All you're really doing (and probably unaware at that) is stating that some degrees of interests are worth pushing at legislators for and some aren't; or some amount of influence on a legislator is fine, but once you cross past a certain point, it somehow becomes a problem.

>>3211046
>It's no different than if you get a large group of randos on the street together and got them to chip in cash and organize themselves for a political end.
it really isn't an it's intellectually dishonest to pretend it is.

>>3211012
>Having a X amount of chance of influencing a politician is acceptable, but having more than X is not.

Well, yes. When only 8 people in the US personally have more money than literally half of humanity, it does create a massive power imbalance.

>>3208889
USA literally has congressmen and senators who are on the payroll of a foreign government and acting in its interest. In every other country this constitutes treason, but in America it's supposedly normal.

>>3210956
>There's fundamentally no difference between any interest group you care to name and a concerned citizen writing his congressman about an issue and threatening not to vote for him again if he doesn't do something about it except scale.
Yes there is.

>>3211005
Not only is a it a lobby, but they have deeply infiltrated multiple layers of the state. It is worrying since their ultimate loyalty is to finance, not good governance.

>>3210956
>>3210956
>implying

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/09/ny-times-scraps-aipac-from-syria-story-171669

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/11/01/almost-no-americans-think-pro-israel-groups-are-washingtons-most-powerful-lobby/

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/02/27/zionist-movement/

Also pretty sure members of the CFR call it the 800 poung gorilla

>>3211046
>that intellectual double think for the purpose of justifying your policy predespositions towards lobbying fitting into a so called "democratic" system

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

>US is an Oligarchy, not a democracy

>>3211046
>some amount of influence on a legislator is fine, but once you cross past a certain point, it somehow becomes a problem.
That is what I'm saying, yes. It's a travesty that someone can influence policy more than someone simply by the virtue of having more dollarydoos to spend.

File: cry cry.jpg (187KB, 960x918px) Image search: [Google]

187KB, 960x918px

>It's an MIDF thread

>>3208889
One off from quads

>>3211273
>the only people who dislike jews/Israel are muslims
You should study history more.

>>3211273
I'm Asian and I dislike secular AIPAC Jews. I like practicing Jews but you power hungry idiot Zionists give Jews a bad name. You make enemies wherever you go because Jews can't resist short term profit even if it fucks over bystanders.

File: Moshe Feiglin.jpg (105KB, 960x960px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 960x960px

>>3208889
Israeli here, please stop giving us shit. I'm serious. Ban APAIC, whatever you have to do. It's ruining our country, we are chattel to Burgers. The inflation is killing our economy, this is why the Libertarian parties just want the aid to stop. Based Moshe Feiglin will end this intrusion when he gets elected.

File: asian-gangs.png (1MB, 1088x902px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1088x902px

>>3211334
>I'm Asian

Fuck off Paki scum

>>3211348
Asian is the term used in Britain for south Asians.

File: west-asia.png (547KB, 1200x1200px) Image search: [Google]

547KB, 1200x1200px

>>3211350
Jews are Asian too, along with Arabs, Assyrians, Druze, Armenians, etc. They are all West Asians.

File: 22aipac-slide-1GUO-facebookJumbo.jpg (113KB, 1050x550px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 1050x550px

>>3210956
>If you have representative government, you're going to have lobbying

AIPAC is literally American Jews using American wealth to steer US policy to benefit Israel at the expense of Americans.