>Best swordsman is history was Asian Heh, nice western

>>3202287
Wasn't most of his harder fights won by him obtaining some sort of "unfair" advantage?

>>3202287
He wasn't even considered the best swordsman in Japan during his lifetime.

I read book one when I was like 10 and never read book two. Book one ended with him fighting a whole army using the technique of running and engaging and running again, so that in reality he would only be fighting one at a time.

So many memories :~)

>>3202287
the idea of a best swordsman is kinda stupid
if i recall they didn't even use katanas in actual samurai battles because its not like the swords could cut through the samurai armor.

Swordmanship really matters more between Ronin fights but that doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things

>>3203581
They were a side arm in battle,depending on the period they were used quite often, though even in later periods, if you combine the relativity low percentage given by period documents with the number of combatants there was a lot of sword fighting.

here is a basic explanation of some of the techniques you could use while armored

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3cpPRBlnwc

But your right the idea was kind of stupid.

Is this manga actually good? I've been meaning to read it for ages

>>3202314
There are no fair fights in actual combat. Fairness doctrine is only done so in sports.

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>tfw you are a legendary swordsman who won your most famous fight with an oar
>tfw tetsubo is best armored combat weapon

>>3202287
He didn't fight anyone that used a shield.

>>3205070
Yeah, it's fucking good, I rarely like comics or manga but loved that one.

>>3205341
But he did fight armored people.

>>3202287
He never even fought a non-Japanese person, for all we know the average European rapier wielder would have shishkebabed him.

>>3205341
>>3205940
One thing to remember is that Musashi never fought fair. He would purposely show up late to the duel piss you off, feed you poisoned food to weaken you, he even kept a pistol hidden on him so he could just shoot you.

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Book of Five Rings should have had the subtitle "How to be a dirty cheater"

>>3205940
Musashi was by all accounts a very wily fighter. Skilled to be sure, but nobody fights over a hundred duels and lives by fighting fair.

>>3205991
He literally wrote the book on not fighting fair

>>3205940
Are there any examples of westerners fighting against the samurai?

>>3206026
A black man named Yasuke was a samurai under Nobunaga.

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>>3202287
Kek, I'd like to see how his pig iron swords would get through a European knight in plate. Both him and this armor are from the same time period so no bullshit involved.

>>3202323
If I recall right, he used the environment to his advantage too like running through a swamp or thick mud and ganking someone as they were slowed down.

>>3206087
He'd shoot him in the head with his arquebus.

gg no re

>>3206087
Muslims destroyed that shit so why wouldnt the Japanese handle it?

Asian finesse > European clunky raw power

>>3206087
He'd probably poison him.

>>3206105
kek

>>3205978
>hurr y u cheat at fight to the death?

People who try to look for "fair" fights are idiots. Someone ALWAYS has the advantage, why cripple yourself by handing that advantage to your opponent?

>>3206026

Samurai were largely obsolete as a fighting force long before Westerners started making big roads into the Far East. There are a number of examples of western duellists fighting eastern duellists (apparently the westerners nearly always won thanks to the superior speed and range of the European fencing blades), but an actual battle between 16th century Samurai and their Western counterparts never happened.

>>3206715
Lol Asian "masculinity" personified. Poisoning people is literally vindictive housewife shit.

>>3206778

And yet he lived while the poisoned guy didn't.

>>3206778
Then Incas were superior to europeans.

>>3206787
>Then Incas were superior to G*rmans.

FTFY. And to be fair, literal niggers are superior to G*rms.

>>3206101
>Muslims destroyed that shit
Pro-tip: during the crusades, plate armour was not yet worn.

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>>3202287
He probably would get shit on by this guy

>>3206715
Whenever I read someone trying to justify dishonor, they always frame this shit like you have to be really smart to poison someone. Honor is a handicap, yes. But your name lives on longer than you will. All men die, and living a bit longer by poisoning people, shooting them in a sword fight, or stabbing them in the back after lying to them about peace may get you another decade of life, but it soils your name.

He's dead now, dishonor didn't save his life in the end.

>>3206723
>There are a number of examples of western duellists fighting eastern duellists (apparently the westerners nearly always won thanks to the superior speed and range of the European fencing blades)

The only source for this is a post in a LARP forum.

In truth, we don't have any documentation of a duel between a samurai and a western sailor.

>>3206723
There are no publicly known accounts of duels between samurai and sailors. There are references to a few navel battles, in which sword play was a smaller part of a larger fight,
and there were duels between Russian and Japanese officers which went both both ways

>>3207026
>Oh it's hot today !
> drinks water
> dies

>>3207508
>navel battles
>Oooh mister samurai, no, don't touch me me here, lewd !

>>3202287
>Best swordsman is history

source for this /nteresting claim ?

>>3207436
He died a natural death of old age. Many of his opponents didn't. Everyone remembers Miyamoto as a skilled warrior. One cannot say the same about the others.

>>3207436

When I see "people" who make a big deal about honor and similar spooks, I now I'm dealing with a kid.

>>3205962
>he even kept a pistol hidden on him so he could just shoot you
Was he Nipponese Indiana Jones?

>>3208070
Ive never seen any reference to this "fact" is it something a manga came up with?

>>3207436

He died of natural causes so dishonor totally saved his life.

>>3208666

I believe in his book he says that guns are awesome and you should take advantage of the fact that they exist.

>>3202287
Thats not Richard the Lionheart, anon

>>3208677
his comments on guns are far more measured. he notes their importance, calls them indispensable in sieges, but notes you can only fire in a straight line, and that once the melee starts they are pretty much useless

>>3206087
You realize they used pikes and other heavy polearms when they fought in armor? He was a famous duelist, that is unarmored fights

>>3207737
Were men from from the nineteenth century who took honour seriously kids? Andrew Jackson fought and won several duels without acting like a conniving gook. Sorry that Asians are incapable of understanding integrity, but that's not universal.

>>3209471

Do you live in the 19th century? No? Then you're a kid. Honor is dead, the 20th century killed it.

>>3208898
>you realized they used pikes and other heavy polearms
Yeah, sorry, but I don't think a yari is going through steel plate.

>>3209777

I dont think you understand how pikes were used. Sufficed to say anyone expecting any suit of armor to keep them safe from a pike wall just because the pikes probably cant pierce it. does not know what they are talking about.

>>3205991
Ittousai

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>>3209777
Push of pikes were often called bad-war by the Germans because of how much casualties it would inflict upon your own troops agaianst theirs. The men would literally charge pike first into the enemy, using momentum to displace their blows and swipe them off the battle. Sometimes this did not work and they often had to result into a battle of strength where each sides would literally lean against the enemies pikes with their own so it would either, break through and bash their helmet or give way and thrust into the opponents throat, arms and legs.

The Japanese did practically the same thing but
most often bashed each other in the fucking head with the steel part of the yari.

Hardwood staff can cave in your skull mind you.
Most times only the front were helmets and cuirasses at all if you were poor.
Double wages for the front because that's how fucking dangerous it was.

>>3209471
You have to keep in mind that Musashi lived in one of the most brutal periods in his his country's history.

Kamiizumi Ise-no-Kami > Yagyuu Munenori > Musashit

>>3208677
>died of natural causes
>died
>saved his life

try proofreading your posts, dipshit.

>>3207737
>spook
Opinion discarded.

>>3207573
Not everyone remembers him as a skilled warrior, just by sheer virtue of this conversation alone is proof enough that it is not the case.

I suppose if your measure of success is being remembered as an individual is the one thing you desire, he was a success. But being a Roman at the Battle of Zama, being a Frank at the Battle of Tours, being in the Coalition in the Battle of the Nations, all these things carry some degree of honor to them without having your name engraved somewhere. You are a part of something greater than yourself and are immortalized by your deeds and company rather than being an instrument in a myth.

If living until you're 80 is the goal of life, he would have been better off sucking his thumb and making rice and have been an equal success. If it's getting your name in history books, H. H. Holmes did a fine job then, too.

You can call honor dead or a waste of time, but it betrays your childish cynicism.

>>3211077
>I suppose if your measure of success is being remembered as an individual is the one thing you desire, he was a success. But being a Roman at the Battle of Zama, being a Frank at the Battle of Tours, being in the Coalition in the Battle of the Nations, all these things carry some degree of honor to them without having your name engraved somewhere. You are a part of something greater than yourself and are immortalized by your deeds and company rather than being an instrument in a myth.

Generally in Japanese culture you're remembered fondly no matter how fucked up of a person you are, as long as you didn't kill the wrong person, then you're vilified forever.

>>3211077
I never saw him as particularly dishonorable. Wild and violent maybe, in his younger days, but given how he was raised that's understandable.

>>3205070
Greatest manga of all time imo

>>3208740
>"As the rampart was caving in over at the Accursed Tower, Richard could bear his indisposition no longer. Sore gums, depleted hair, and all, he had himself carried to the north gate in a litter made of his royal quilt. From the top of Mategriffon, in a reclining position, he reached for his crossbow and began to pick off Muslims scurrying along the walls blow. Especially gratifying for him was the shot that placed a bolt through the heart of a defender who had had the temerity to don the hauberk of a fallen French chevalier."

>>3211208
>"The King was the first to leap into the water. He had stripped off his leg and waist armor, and at first the sea came up to his midriff as he waded forwards, crossbow in one hand and sword in the other.... So daunting was the sight of this huge man, this superb athlete moving among the press of humanity that almost by instinct the muslim fray fell back in awe and fear. The reaping began. It was not long before their beachhead was established. Planks and barrels were brought on shore to form a barricade; Archers fell neatly into ranks behind it.

>>3211256
>>3211208
>got rekt by a kid with a crossbow

>>3206784
Yeah, just doesn't make him a badass is all

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>>3202287

>>3211077
No. You said, dishonor didn't save his life in the end which is absolutely retarded because it obviously did. You sound like a "muh honor" faggot. 70% of what you said in this post was completely irrelevant to the point and the rest is logically invalid. Fucking brainlet.

>>3206715
>Why cripple yourself by handing that advantage to your opponent?
A real man shows his brilliance when he is crippled and overcomes the challenge in front of him. Why make the fight stupid and dry if you know the outcome is your victory? To live on the edge of death and defeat is the only way to truly live.

>>3211383
Live by the xbow, die by the xbow. Richard was a true Rhodok.

>>3211573
>A real man does x
Thats why they're all dead and the scoundrels who didn't give a shit are fucking their widows and enslaving their children. When its about raw killing and winning, you show the enemy a smile and plunge your knife into their back when they turn around. Why even risk letting them have the upper hand? Better to certainly win and live than to possibly lose and die.

>>3203581
they were not a primary weapon of war just like a pistol isn't ypur main armament for soldiers, but that doesn't mean it didn't see any use in combat or all around fighting.

>>3206026
Yeah, the Spaniards and portuguese rekt Japanese pirates for example, and a good deal of them had Samuray background.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1582_Cagayan_battles
Also duels in Nagasaki and stuff happened, and the nips usually ended shanked if I recall well, until they changed they swords or something (I should hunt for that snipet, If I find him I will post it there).

>>3211077
I cringed when reading this post.

>>3211555
For Christ's sake. He's dead. Acting like a fag didn't save him from death because he's dead. You are such a retard. It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

>>3212352
I cringed when reading your post.

>>3212250
>citation needed everywhere

>>3212366
Sorry I hurt your feelings. I thought you'd have a thicker skin.

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>>3212250
That article is horribly written as >>3212397
points out and even then its about a naval campaign, and of course Japanese ships sucked at that point.

There are no records of duels, at least none that have publicly been released. My understanding is that claim originated on an internet forum but the materials were never produced.

The snippet you refer to his an oral history from the Takamura family and comes from the current headmaster of the Takamura ha Shindo yoshin ryu who has apparently seen one of the swords in question in the possession of his former teacher.

But well important there are caveats to using oral histories, my point being we dont have much documented information of sword fights between the two

>>3202287
>greatest swordsman
>it took the japanese 1600 years to figure out what basically amounts to I.33 wards with saber and dagger

europe's oldest known swordsmanship manuals describes a system similar to mushashi's, a good 400 years before musashi.

>>3212568
Musashi didn't invent the use of two swords, in fact I would be surprised if it was invented by one guy.

And while I think there is a lot of cross over between Hema and kenjutsu in terms of gross technique and even some higher principles I question if you have seen enough of Musashi's style: hyoho Niten ichi ryu, to make such a comparison, His two swords stuff seems pretty different than say the shinto ryu nito technique

>>3212568
That's some crazy fucked up chronology you got there...

Also, I:33 and HNIR are really nothing alike (where are HNIR obsessio for instance?), so you're out of touch there too.

>>3209471
lmao fucking mongrel cuck..where are you from?

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Beat this asiaboo

>>3212365
By that logic honor wouldn't save him from death either

>>3211077
>try proofreading your posts, dipshit.

If what he said seemed somehow semantically incorrect or otherwise nonsensical, then I'd say your own reading comprehension betrays you, dipshit.

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>>3211605
>Richard was a true Rhodok.

>>3211535
Who was this guy again?

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>>3212957

>>3215374
Toshiro Mifune, this is Akira Kurosawa's "Red Beard".

>>3202287
why the fuck would you even agree to a duel with someone who has a history of cheating

>>3215268
its true, though

>Greatest Swordsman
>Most of his victories come from using cleverness or underhanded tactics and not his actual finesse in sword play