>Tfw your countrys history is commonly discussed in this board

>>3194366
it just shows what kind of a joke european history is and how eurocentrism is a plague

But it wasn't.
The Swedish """Empire""" was a joke.

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>tfw your country is eternal anglo of the middle east
but
>people talk about us even though they don't know anything about us
that's bad nibba

>>3194388
Wrong. If that was true people wouldn't be discussing us

>>3194408
But they don't.

>>3194366

French subsidies.

Thank Paradox Games

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>>3194366
Was Sweden ever relevant? All I remember is that they expanded their territory just to get fucked when Russia and other countries didn't have to deal with internal and external conflicts anymore.

Swedes are kind of like Chinese, they only care about their own history and not anything interesting.

>>3196217
Well, at least people, especially in East Asia learn about Chinese History. To not forget China actually has relevant history.

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Did this man save Protestantism? Could Protestantism have been destroyed militarily in the 17th century, or was that just Austrians larping?

>>3194366

Mediocre try.

>>3194422
I do. It's hugely historically relevant if you are Baltic/Scandinavian.

>tfw no Kalmar union in your lifetime

>>3194366
Denmark is more important

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>>3196253
You lie.

>>3196259
Denmark ruled over all of Scandinavia the swedes did not

>>3196268
The swedish empire was a great power The kalmar union wasn't

Fuck Swedish """empire""". All it did was send peasants dying in wars started by mad ambitious asshole kings. Lower classes bled to enrich nobles but nowdays Swedish right wingers see that as something to be proud of. Sick sick people.

>>3196324
T. Pekka Suominlainen

>>3196268
Denmark never spread Protestantism to (semi-)pagans.

>>3196328
Right but doesn't change the facts that there is nothing to be proud of dying for asshole kings.

>>3196324
Swedish rule in Estonia and Latvia was way better than German rule.
Finns got off easy. The Estonians and Latvian suffered 700 years of slavery under Germans. Sweden was on the path to ending it, but the Great Northern War happened, the Russian tsar supported the German rule and gave them autonomy, and it continued until Alexander II (pbuh) freed the peasants.

>>3196336
>Finns got off easy

Dying far away from home to enrich Swedish nobles while having your culture oppressed isn't getting of easy.

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>yfw the Swedish empire

>Be Swedish Empire
>last for 5 min

Don't cry because it's over
Smile because it happened

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>>3196390

>>3196377
*1 century

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>>3196348
>>yfw the Swedish empire

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>>3196410
THAT MAN RUINED OUR GLORIOUS CONQUEST

>>3194366
Stockholm had it coming

>yfw they are so irrelevant you don't even differentiate between them and just call them Scandinavian countries (this includes Finland and Denmark too)

>>3194366
Sweden was irrelevant for much of its history. The two things that make it stand out was that it was relatively in abandoning Catholicism in favor of Protestantism, and the short period as a great power in Europe, and the success there can be attributed to the genius of a handful of individuals who happened to live at about the same time.

Sweden is mentioned on this board a lot because 1) Swedes are highly prolific on the internet as a whole, and 2) Paradox Entertainment are Swedish.

>>3196439
Swedish vikings had a huge role in eastern europe as well

>>3196449
Swedes were never Vikings, the Varangians were Finns/ Slavs

>>3196456
lol

>>3196333
>333
>333
>333
and you're absolutely right. the same guys who get tear eyed listening to sabaton had ancestors who cried actual manly tears dying from dysentery or infections.

>>3196211
Yes. At more than one occasion even. The Empire of Sweden was one of the major players in Europe when it was still around, and almost single-handedly defeated the HRE during the 30 Years War despite inferior numbers. Had Gustavus Adolphus not died during the war it's likely that he would have attempted to unite the protestant princes under his rule, go on to conquer Denmark, and with it Norway and Iceland, and proclaim himself the Protestant Emperor of Europe.

In 1905 the country would prove to become relevant again when Norway declared independence. Had Sweden not agreed peacefully it seems very likely that WWI would have started there rather than with the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand as England was heavily in favor of Norway in the matter while Germany heavily supported Sweden (and made it very clear that Germany would go to war in Sweden's favor if push came to shove).

>just to get fucked when Russia and other countries didn't have to deal with internal and external conflicts anymore
Eeeh... Sweden proved to be able to handle multiple armies at different fronts at the time. Eventually Russia took Finland, which is generally seen as the end of the Empire, but there are also indications that this wasn't entirely due to the Russian effort either. Sweden had treated the Finnish population extremely poorly for centuries, and it seems likely that the Finnish armies essentially just handed over their lands to the Russians simply because "it can't possibly be any worse than living under Swedish rule."

>>3196449
Swedes weren't vikings like norwegians and danes

>>3196463
Wrong

>>3196467
lol

>>3196456
WE

>>3196469
what part of it? right-wing neckbeards breaking down crying over silly shit when they're drunk?

>>3196449
Yes, but Sweden didn't exist as a country yet at the time and people usually only talk about them as Viking or the Norse, which is proper. The idea of being a Swede didn't exist at the time. There were the Svear, whose name eventually would be taken by the Swedish Kingdom, much like how England is practically named Land of the Angles despite including several different tribes and no Angles thinking of themselves as Englishmen.

>>3196456
There certainly were Finns and Slavs among the Norse population living in modern Sweden, and likely a minority of Celts as well. The majority of people would have been Norse though. Plain and simple.

>>3196469
Yes proud brother, never speak bad about glorious Swedish empire! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2g5hoUzHI

>>3196463
Caroleans never cried. They were alpha males that never feared death

>>3196485
Man, that singer really sucks.

>>3194397
>eternal anglo of the middle east
I'm Anglo and a big Turkboo, but how do you reach this conclusion exactly?

>>3196324
Am Swedish and I agree entirely. Swedes have a tendency to look back at the empire and think nostalgic thought about how great we were back then. But I certainly think it's important that we do not forget how this also meant that we killed parents, tore apart families, ravaged and plundered the countries of other people. Not to mention how we treated the non-Swedish speaking population of our own kingdom.

It's a fun little thing to read about in history books, but it's definitely not something I wish we ever attempt again.

>>3196502
>Slavs
>People
Lol

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>>3196508
Also
>Finns
>People

>>3196485
I like this one better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo3cd1Rjsz4

>>3196456
>Varangians were Finns/ Slavs

Idiocy, pure uninformed idiocy

Varangians were Anglo-Saxons, Normans, Swedes, Russians & Slavs, Finnish, Danish, etc. Pick up a fucking history book instead of making large sweeping statements.

>>3196521
It should however be noted that the majority of them were swedish

>>3196526
In fact, so many men left Sweden to seek service in the guard that laws were passed in Sweden, stating that no man could inherit while staying in Grikkland (the Old Norse name for the Byzantine Empire).

>>3196491
they didn't fear death out of bravery. they just saw it as a way to escape the endless sermons and nagging priests

>>3196521
No traces of them left behind. Even Rurik, the «swedish» varangian had a finnic haplotype

>>3196472
But they weren't, swedes were autists who feared going west. Were is the swedish equalent of Sweyn Forkbeard, Canute the Great, Harald Hardrada, Rollo, etc.?

>>3196456
>who were the Rus

>>3196656
Olof II raided baltic warrior tribes. Gardar Svavarson were one of the first to live and visit on Iceland.
Ulf of Borresta raided england many times.

The reason swedes rarely went west was because we didn't have an inch of coastline to the west

>>3196672
*Olof I

>>3194366
Because of Swedish barbarism.

Austrians, Portugese or Dutchmen managed more with the same amount of people and more difficult positions.

>>3196683
>Portuguese
>Dutchmen
Both have amazing coastal positions

>>3196691
Yet they were still conected to mainland and got their s f'd up by armies on foot. Scandinavia on the other hand can be only invaded from sea or Finland and as such wasn't even worth invading until WW2.

>>3196656
Swedes didn't fear going west. The ports in in Sweden simply didn't lend themselves for going west. So the Swedes who travelled west would first go to Norway or Denmark to meet up with the expedition, while Danes and Norwegians looking to go east to, for example, join the Varangian Guard would first travel to Uppland.

>>3196648
Are you stupid, there's several runestones commemorating "swedes" ( as in, people who lived in the area now named Sweden) and returned after service in the revered varangian guard.

Also, the danish vikings weren't just danes. Denmark functioned as a launching point to the west, same as Roskilde in the Uppsala area functioned as a launching point to the east. People from all over scandinavia went to there places to join up with the band of vikings when it was announced by one lord or rich man or another that he was launching a campaign and needed men, and then they were briefly trained so they could fight as a group and off they all went. Viking travels weren't centralized things going through only local channels, they were an opportunity for adventure, fame, fortune and glory, and men from all over went to seek those things with other northlings, regardless of what tribe they belonged to.

>>3196672
Iceland was discovered by a Faroese man and settled by Ingolf Arnarsson, a Norwegian. Some random fuck that wintered there did nothing for the settlement of the island.

>all of the swedish vikangz can be counted with one hand, despite dwarfing both denmark and norway in terms of population
Vikangz my ass, wouldn't be surprised if they were Finns, like Rurik

>>3196333
They died for something, that's more than you'll ever do.

>>3196751
Statistics from the year ~1000

Norway population: 200 000
Sweden population: 300 000
Denmark population: 1 000 000

Denmark and norway were closer to the western parts of europe. Which were more developed, and thus more is known about them and their vikings.

It wasn't discovered by Ingolf Arnarson since he went there after Gardar did.

Rurik might've been related to finns, but he was culturally scandinavian and exclusively spoke old norse.

>>3196813
No way Sweden had almost the same of a population as Norway, its literally just a mountainous coast. Maybe Sweden and Denmark had roughly the same amount of people but there is no way Denmark had 1 million people in 1000 AD.

I said it was settled by Ingolf, not discovered by (which was a Faroese-Norwegian by the name of Naddoddr)

Where is the proof that Rurik spoke Norse?

>mfw this swedish boy is so insecure about this that he starts making things up

>>3196723
>Scandinavia on the other hand can be only invaded from sea or Finland
unless, you know, the attacker also happens to live in scandinavia

>>3196723
Denmark got invaded by the HRE and Prussia several times, and Sweden got shit on by Russia, and Sweden in return sperged out on all of its neighbours

>>3194366
>Swedish "empire"
More like empirelet

>>3194366
I only discuss your country because of some autistic band

>>3196840
>>3196813 #
>No way Sweden had almost the same of a population as Norway, its literally just a mountainous coast.
It did. A possible explanation for why is that Norway was larger then and had a large coastline with relatively mild climate thanks to the gulf stream
>Maybe Sweden and Denmark had roughly the same amount of people but there is no way Denmark had 1 million people in 1000 AD.
Maybe not 1 million. The source could've been wrong. But more than sweden and norway combined. Denmark at the time owned almost all of the most fertile land in Scandinavia.

>I said it was settled by Ingolf, not discovered by (which was a Faroese-Norwegian by the name of Naddoddr)
Okay, Gardar lived there first

>Where is the proof that Rurik spoke Norse?
Where is the proof that George Washington wasn't a unicorn with shapeshifting abilities?

>>mfw this swedish boy is so insecure about this that he starts making things up
Wrong

>>3196516
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDKB4kT3o1w

>>3196466
>Yes. At more than one occasion even. The Empire of Sweden was one of the major players in Europe when it was still around, and almost single-handedly defeated the HRE during the 30 Years War despite inferior numbers. Had Gustavus Adolphus not died during the war it's likely that he would have attempted to unite the protestant princes under his rule, go on to conquer Denmark, and with it Norway and Iceland, and proclaim himself the Protestant Emperor of Europe.
WE
>In 1905 the country would prove to become relevant again when Norway declared independence. Had Sweden not agreed peacefully it seems very likely that WWI would have started there rather than with the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand as England was heavily in favor of Norway in the matter while Germany heavily supported Sweden (and made it very clear that Germany would go to war in Sweden's favor if push came to shove).
Germany also supported Norwegian independence

>>3196894
Wikipedias medieval demographics state that Sweden had twice the population of Norway, and Denmark having a bit over twice the population of Norway. Even little Norway had more Vikangz than Sweden

Burden of proof is on you, you claimed Rurik spoke Norse. We dont even know if he really existed.

And wintering on a place is not the same as settling it. He fucked off back home once winter was over

>>3197211
>Wikipedias medieval demographics state that Sweden had twice the population of Norway, and Denmark having a bit over twice the population of Norway. Even little Norway had more Vikangz than Sweden
Because of its long coast west. I explained this earlier
>Burden of proof is on you, you claimed Rurik spoke Norse. We dont even know if he really existed.
If he existed, he spoke norse.
>And wintering on a place is not the same as settling it. He fucked off back home once winter was over
I don't think i said that he settled it. I Said that he lived there first, which he did

>>3194366
Small-medium european countries relevant for the history of the world?


-Netherlands
-Portugal
-Greece

>>3197258
Greece wasn't small back when it was relevant

Netherlands and portugal both had larger populations that Sweden untill recently

>>3196456
Wat

>>3196560
>they just saw it as a way to escape the endless sermons and nagging priests
>I got so bored of that stupid Church stuff so I became a warrior fearless if death
>A tip of the hat mlady
>turns 360 degrees and Skates away on his heelies
This Anon in a nutshell

>>3194366
but sweden never gets mentioned
and neither was it relevant
stop being so delusion anon

>>3196511
Finns BTFO Russians better than Swedes ever could

>>3197327
Finns BTFO Finns better than Swedes ever could
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cudgel_War
Thanks for keeping The country nice and strong

>>3197267
I doubt that. Netherlands in 1600 had 1.5 million.
Portugal discovered or conquered a great part of the world with less than 1 million population.
Greece had other relevance.

>>3196402
More like a half a century

>>3197360
I checked wikipedia you are right, Sweden and the netherlands had roughly the same pop in 1600

itt swedes getting destroyed as usual.

Just face it your country is irrelevant and useless and have always been that.

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Swedish medieval history is skewed as fuck. The most relevant parts of the country back then were in Väster- and Östergötland. But since Cuckholm is the capital today, of course Swedish history books will be a confusing read.

>>3196787
It's pathetic how much you idolize a bunch of blood thirsty thieves and murderers.

>>3196787
>They died for someone
FTFY

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>>3197398
T.

>>3197416
not an argument swedecuck

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>>3197425
>An amerifat is unironially posting ITT

>>3197439
>A Swede unironically thinks he isn't a subhuman

Your people are useless in every way, you are nothing but a lost tribe of albino niggers

>>3197410
Caroleans were 100% honorable

>>3197439
>60%
>Have historically black sub class left over from slavery
>They breed like rabbits
>Have 0% black underclass
>Invite them in as immigrants
>It's the Americans who are cucked
Wew lad

>>3197508
he is swedish do no expect him to be able to think

>>3197293
>what is a joke?
the swedish army had priest travelling with them whos job it was to hammer in to their heads that it was impossible to die at any time that god hadn't predetermined. that made it much easier to charge line infantry.
>inb4 bad joke
fuck you anyway

>>3197539
>What is a joke post replying to a shitposter
Are you finnish or are you just that autistic?

>>3197557
[spoiler]autistic[\spoiler]

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>>3194366
Sweden

>>3196853
Petty wars incomparable to shit happening on mainland.

>>3196866
Denmark is not in Scandinavia and when Russia crushed Sweden, they stopped at Finland and never went to Sweden proper.

>>3196456
We're reaching levels of we wuzing I didn't knew were possible.

>>3197258

>no Scotland

Good.

>>3197977
he is right though, Rurik was a finn not swedecuck

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>tfw your country was part of one of the greatest and more relevant empires in history
>tfw a meme revolution is led by the aristocracy and your country becomes independent
>your independent union further balkanizes
>you're now basically a shittier, smaller and irrelevant version of mexico in central america
>tfw when your glorious spanish ancestors where given the captaincy of central america, they decided to stay here expecting the region to become a jewel of the empire
>tfw it wasn't so

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>>3198151
>The amerifat negro is still posting

>>3198188
>Swedish """"""""People"""""""""

>>3197957
>Denmark is not in Scandinavia
Yes it is. You're thinking of Finland.

>>3194366
>>Tfw your countrys history is commonly discussed in this board
Swedes spamming these threads do not count.

>>3196245
>Kalmar union

the very same one the swedes destroyed ?

>>3198334
Scandinavian peninsula to be precise. Denmark doesn't have such well defensible geography.

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>>3198365
Based

>>3196456
>one butthurt swede that keeps replyibg to me as to invalidate what im saying
Embrace it, swedecucks, Rurik was a Finn and you were never Vikings at the aame magnitude of Denmark and Norway

>>3198688
lol

Would Scandinavia be relevant today if the Kalmar Union had succeeded? Would there be a "Norse" identity?

>>3198937
Probably. they would have had the resources and the near indefinite control over the Baltic sea.

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>tfw no united Scandinavian country, or Scandinavian Union instead of European Union Shit

>>3199100
Sweden would've united all of scandinavia if it wasn't for the d*tch

>>3199107
Denmark could have united all of scandinavia if it wasn't for the Sw*des

>>3199214
Swedish ruled scandinavia>d*nish ruled scandinavia

>>3199222
tell that to the Finns, or the Poles or the Germans

Swedes are savages, nothing else and will be never be anything else

>>3199231
>Finns
We civilised them
>Poles
They kept claiming the swedish throne, they had it coming
>Germans
We were protecting protestantism

The d*nes did however oppress us during their rule. The swedes were the good guys

>>3199263
>We civilised them
they didn't need you to become civilized, they would have civilized themselves eventually and would have fared far better without Swedish opression.

>They kept claiming the swedish throne, they had it coming

Their king was literally half swedish from a swedish royal line, so again it was a swedish fuck up. Also, nothing justifies Swedish savagery during the deluge.

>We were protecting protestantism

that was just a flimsy cover up for swedish imperialistic ambitions.

>>3199322
>they didn't need you to become civilized, they would have civilized themselves eventually and would have fared far better without Swedish opression.
Wrong. And besides, they would've been consumed and still be a part of russia today if it wasn't for us.

The real savages are the danes, who oppressed the Estonians, Norwegians and also us swedes

>>3199336
Russia treated them better than you did

>>3199339
Only because they had to in order to prevent rebellion

>>3199343
so you admit that Sweden opressed Finland?

>>3199339
>>3199343
They never built or developed finland like we did. They just left them alone

>>3199346
All peasants in swedish society got equally "oppressed". It wasn't a finn exclusive thing

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>>3194366
>How could a country with such a low population have been so relevant?

Greece, Austria, fucking Mongolia

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rip in pieces world's most underrated air force

>>3194366
I think a lot of Swedish people are online

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>>3196211
>just to get fucked when Russia
Lets be real senpai, that entire invasion was just scorched earth bullshit.

Russia didn't do shit but burn all their resources while retreating so the Swedes starved and froze to death trying to traverse the desolate hellhole called Russia. And on top of it all some random ass fucking Frenchman assassinates their king.

If the Russians hadn't been such massive pussies and actually fought the Swedes before everyone in the Swedish army was mostly dead or starved, frostbitten and diseased they'd be speaking Swedish in Russia today.

The Swedes were steamrolling everyone with ease before that.

>>3199339
Without swedes Russia would have colonized Finland earlier and the finns would have ended upp like the veps, ingrians and karelians

>>3199368
>Greece
Nope, it's just that most Greeks in anatolia got assimilated by the Ottomans later on
>Austria
Only relevant because of diplomatic marriages and they didn't have that small of a population

>>3200762

Without Russians Swedes would have genocided Finns with svecomans during 19th century when nationalism was born. Also Swedes didn't civilize finns but instead they oppressed Finnish civilization and culture. Only Russian by elevating Finnish language to be used in administration and higher education saved the Finnish culture along with the work of fennomans. Also Russians gave Finland autonomy, own army, own currency etc. all the things a well functioning society needs. All these things were necessary for Finnish civilization to thrive.

Fuck Sw*des, thank Russians and fennomans.

>>3194378
>eurocentrism is a plague

The past 1000 years have been eurocentric wether you like it or not buddy

>>3198937
>if the Kalmar Union had succeeded?
The question is rather, could the Union ever have been successful?

The Kalmar Union was very weak. While it retained a semblance of a unified state (or at least a union of crowns) before the Engelbrekt rebellion in 1434, after the rebellion, it was to be very frank a dead state walking.
Since the Swedish throne was elective, the Danish kings had to travel to Sweden to be elected. The Swedish nobility used this to force concessions out of the king, decentralising the state even further than it already was.
The Danish kings had a source in real coin in the Öresund toll and access to some of the best mercenaries of the world from Flanders, Frisia and Lower Germany. In essence, the Danish king would raise an army of Danish knights, German, Frisian and Flemish mercenaries and perhaps Danish men-at-arms and invade Sweden to force the Swedes to elect him king. Swedish nobility that opposed him would fight him and those that supported him, raising peasant militia armies. The Swedish peasant militia was well-armed and well-trained and proved capable of taking on the Danish armies on several occasions, especially if they had good leadership, the advantage of their own terrain and numerical superiority.

>>3200919 cont.

Denmark at the time was sliding into serfdom, with the nobility gaining the right to the land and the right both to prevent their tenants from moving away and the right to "hand and neck" (meaning they could be prosecutor, judge and hangman on their own estates, passing out punishments to their tenants as they saw fit). The Swedish peasants feared going the same way worse than hell itself, and it was easy to make them take arms against anyone threatening their old rights - to be represented at the things and the national meetings that would evolve into the estates parliament during the era, to bear arms, to petition the king for justice when unfairly treated and to pay only what they owed in taxes.
When the Danish king had managed to get himself elected, through violence or negotiations, he would usually place his mercenary captains as tax collectors on the Swedish forts and castles - that way he got loyal men in place, denied Swedihs nobility that had resisted him that income and rewarded his mercenaries - the unspoken agreement was that whatever the mercenaries could press out of the peasants beyond what they owed the crown they could keep. Being used to unarmed serfs back home, these men would use harsh methods, and when winter came and chaffing and milling was done, the peasants would arm themselves, gather on skis and burn down the local castle or fort with the mercenaries inside. And yet another revolt would be born.

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>>3199837
>any victory that made my nationality lose is not a real victory

>>3198937
>Would there be a "Norse" identity?
The Norse identity didn't become a real until the 19th century, with the unification of Germanya and Italy, with Sweden having lost it's former empire, and Denmark having lost the union with Norway to Sweden.

It was during this period that the countries adopted the crown as their currency (originally a monetary union where Danish and Swedish crowns were legal tender in either country) and the modern Swedish national anthem which never once mentions Sweden but talks about 'the North' was written by a group of Pan-Scandinavist students who hoped that it would one day be the national anthem of the Scandinavian Union.

>>3200771
Russia wouldn't have done that shit if they colonized you earlier Perka

>>3197210
>Germany also supported Norwegian independence
Wilhelm II stated outright that Germany would fight to support Sweden's union. He later withdrew his support when the Swedes proved to be "weak" by being willing to negotiate peacefully.

>>3199263
>They kept claiming the swedish throne
They had the better claim.

>>3201110
No. Because they were weak and allowed themselves to be utterly destroyed by the swedes

>>3201110
Being c*tholic disqualified their claim.

>>3201104
Source?

>>3200771
The russians only did those things so the finns would not rebel and they did change their minds eventually.

>>3201170
Doesn't matter why Russian did it. Point is that Russians were infinetly better for Finnish civilization than the Swedes.

>>3201301
They were only worse thanks to the circumstances so it does not make sense to vilify them more.

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>>3194378
>eurocentrism

I wonder why it exists...

>>3201736
Maybe so, but it sure as hell doesn't make any sense to praise Swedes as bringers of civilization to Finns. Nothing could be farther from the truth looking at history.

>>3199263
>We were protecting protestantism

Swedish armies literally got Catholics and Protestants united against them, because of their banditry.

>>3201858
Swedes were more civilized than finns at the time (but not by very much) so "nothing could be farther from the truth" would not be the best way to describe it.

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>>3199837
>Russia didn't do shit but burn all their resources while retreating so the Swedes starved and froze to death
HAHAHAHAHAHA ITS FUCKING TUMBLING DOWN ISN'T IT?
How many times did this fucking happen, really? How many more manlets will take to finally learn?

>>3201872
Swedes oppressed Finnish civilization by not giving any public space to Finnish language/culture. Russians were polar opposites to Swedes in this regard and actually cultivated Finnish civilization. Had Finnish war not happened, there probably wouldn't be Finnish civilization.

>>3201877
>Swedes oppressed Finnish civilization by not giving any public space to Finnish language/culture.
They did not give any public space to peasants and all finns happened to be peasants.
>Russians were polar opposites to Swedes in this regard
Tell that to the karelians. Russia only gave Finland autonomy to prevent a rebellion or a swedish reconquest.
>Had Finnish war not happened, there probably wouldn't be Finnish civilization.
There are so many nations (slovenes, balts, slovaks etc.) who were in the same situation as the finns yet they all made it. It could have gone both ways.

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>>3196342
>finnish culture

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>>3202000
finnish culture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT_3Br8e7yM

>>3197416
Stormaktstidfags need to go and stay go.

>>3199837
>Sweden is Great Power!
>Unbeatable in battles(almost!)
>Lose one battle on enemy territory and not only lose "great power" status, also go into total irrelevancy for hundreds of years.

>>3202118
Poltava was basically Swedens Stalingrad

>>3202118
>for ever
ftfy

>>3202149
Wrong

>>3196656
Swedes weren't even a thing in the modern sense back then. The "swedes" back in this time couldn't go west because they were landlocked from the Atlantic you stupid fucking retard. The goths who nowadays live in modern day Sweden went west and the visigoths even came from fucking Sweden.

Also,
>what is going east

Of course they didn't go west, most of Sweden only borders the Baltic Sea

>>3200799
>The past 1000 years have been eurocentric
That's a strange way of typing "The last 400 years have been Eurocentric"

>>3202236
>visigoths even came from fucking Sweden.

WE

>>3202308
*500

>>3199263
>We were protecting protestantism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-WO73Dh7rY

>>3202364
>not even knowing what Västergötland is

hello plebo

>>3202994
Visigoth doesn't mean Western Goth in the sense of being from Västergötland. It means the Goths that live to the west of those other Goths, as in west of the Ostrogoths.

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>tfw your country's history is only relevant to show off how pathetic were the french back there
It could be worse

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I need books on the kalmar union. Can someone help?

>>3202994

Goths had non-Scandinavian haplogroups for the most part
They didn't come from Scandinavia but Wielbark

>>3196466

>single-handedly

It was the leading country in a protestant alliance with German states financed by France. Without the support of either, Sweden wouldn't have lasted 5 mins in Germany.

It was a Baltic power for a while in a time in which that didn't mean much and didn't require that much. Until Russia and Prussia shaped up and Sweden went into the trashbin of history..

>>3194397
>roach says he's Anglo of middle East

If anything it was the Persians man, they were the first.

>>3196500
that we cause immense butthurt

>>3203535
>Goths had non-Scandinavian haplogroups for the most part
Not him, but I mean, wow, really? A people who lived in continental Europe for several generations predominately had the Y-chromosomes you'd expect to find in continental Europe? Inconceivable.

>>3203967
>It wasn't impressive because i say so
Compelling argument

>>3196466
>almost single-handedly defeated the HRE during the 30 Years War despite inferior numbers

This is what Swedes actually believe. Most "Swedish" soldiers were German mercenaries. The Swedes themselves were basically French mercenaries, as all the money for their bloodthirsty rampage came straight from France to finance the destruction of its enemy. Torstensson was a formidable commander, though.