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/his/, I am very puzzled about the human condition.
Why is it that sayings like "life's a bitch and then you die" have universal appeal, and yet I can't think of any concrete idea of how life could be better?
It seems to me that there is no conceivable life-worthy universe where there wouldn't also be suffering, death, etc. I mean suffering is just unmet desires, right? It's a precondition of anything happening at all. And death is the only alternative to living forever, which doesn't sound so great.
How can it be, that things couldn't be any better, and yet massive religions are founded on the idea that things are shit?
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ري كظ R Y · Q V S S (ID: !KNDY.F27NY)
2017-08-03 03:02:39
Post No.3184666
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>>3184580
>Why is it that sayings like "life's a bitch and then you die" have universal appeal...
BECAUSE THEY ARTICULATE TRUTH.
>... and yet I can't think of any concrete idea of how life could be better?
BECAUSE YOU LACK IMAGINATION.
>It seems to me that there is no conceivable life-worthy universe where there wouldn't also be suffering, death, etc.
1. THERE IS ONLY ONE UNIVERSE.
2. SUFFERING, AND DEATH, ARE CONTINGENT ON MATTER; ANY MATERIAL ARRANGEMENT IS SUBJECT TO SUFFERING, AND TO DEATH.
>I mean suffering is just unmet desires, right?
NOT NECESSARILY; SUFFERING HAS MULTIPLE CAUSES, AND THERE ARE MULTIPLE KINDS OF SUFFERING.
>And death is the only alternative to living forever, which doesn't sound so great.
1. PHYSICAL DEATH IS MERELY A TRANSITION AWAY FROM THE KOSMOS.
2. NOT EVERYONE THAT DIES IS DESTINED TO THE PLEROMA; MOST SOULS ARE DESTINED TO ETERNAL DOOM IN THE DEPTHS OF THE ABYSS; ONLY THE NOBLE ONES WILL BE BROUGHT INTO THE PLEROMA AFTER THE END OF THE WORLD.
>How can it be, that things couldn't be any better...
PHYSICAL LIFE IN THE WORLD CAN BE BETTER.
>... and yet massive religions are founded on the idea that things are shit?
TO IMPROVE SOMETHING ONE FIRSTLY NEEDS TO RECOGNIZE ITS CURRENT DEFICIENT CONDITION.
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>>3184666
>afterlife
Post proof
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>>3184580
Also, read Camus. Absurdism doesn't offer any solution, but rather truth to the matter. Life is hell, but existence is better than non-existence, that's just like saying 1>0. You cannot derive meaning, only assign it, you cannot live life without evil, only mitigate the evil which you do.
Camus was a contemporary of Satre, but differed notable in his unease about Communism. Sure, it might end suffering if it really pans how it's intended, but I think he knew life and humanity would ruin any utopia.
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>>3184794
>Existentialism
>Absurdism
>Camus
>Sartre
TWO JEWS, AND THEIR FATALISTIC NIHILISTIC PSEUDOIDEOLOGIES.
>... you cannot live life without evil, only mitigate the evil which you do.
THAT SUMMARIZES THE ETHOS OF THE HYPOCRITICAL JEW.
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>>3184810
Why do you hate Jews? Judging by the Arabic in tripfaggery, you must know that the prophet Muhammad called Jews brothers, and even hung out with Jews in his "Night Journey", the Arabic name escapes me.
Besides, they were both atheist. Camus goes so far as to say that most religious people are hypocrites inherent to their faith. Satre was a communist, and any good communist is an atheist.
So, why do you hate Jews?
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>>3184824
This assuming you're Muslim, of course.
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>>3184794
>Life is hell
But this is what I don't get. Why is this any more true than "life is heaven"?
When I try to imagine Heaven, I can only imagine things we have here on Earth. Nice scenery, a blissful state of mind, calm contemplation, nice music.
When I try to imagine Hell, I can only imagine things we have here on Earth. Fire, torture equipment, screams of pain.
Our actual lives are the ultimate reference point for anything. So how can we say our actual lives are "worse than they should be"?
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>>3184824
>Why do you hate Jews?
I DO NOT HATE THEM; I DESPISE THEM.
ONE DOES NOT HATE VERMIN; ONE DESPISES VERMIN; HATRED IS RESERVED FOR INDIVIDUAL ENEMIES.
>... prophet Muhammad called Jews brothers...
THAT IS FLAGRANTLY FALSE.
>Besides, they were both atheist. Camus goes so far as to say that most religious people are hypocrites inherent to their faith. Satre was a communist, and any good communist is an atheist.
AND?
>This assuming you're Muslim, of course.
HOW IS WHETHER I AM MUSLIM, OR NOT, RELEVANT?
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>>3184852
Well, you're right that "Heaven" and "Hell" are purely Abrahamic, western concepts. Your notion of "Heaven" differs than every other culture of "Heaven (Elysium, fields of bliss, Valhalla, fields of battle, etc.) just like how "Hell" is different for the same reason. The actual phrasing of this reflects our culture.
The idea is that life is inherently flawed, and we're just bright enough to realize but too limited to forever change it. Remember that the only universal truth is entropy- things decaying. We live in a decaying system of nature where our lives are the exception. Depressing, but it's truth.
This is where the crisis comes. We can change it, and we have to an extent. I've never gone hungry in my short life, but there are people 3x my age who've never had a stable supply of food. Our lives can always be worse, only because we can imagine them better, and how easy it would be to get there. But because we can't, it becomes futile, and someone of think "why bother?".
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>>3184884
It's not false. He explicitly said the he, Jews and Christians worship the same god, thus that makes them brothers like any Muslim. Read the Quran and a few biographies.
If you think Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion, the word is "Semite", which Arabs and Persians fall under too, as other ethnicities do I'm sure. Are they "vermin" too? Also, what makes Jews vermin? Could you elaborate?
And no, your faith and ethnicity don't matter to me. I was just trying to understand your perspective.
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>>3184890
Someone might think*
It's getting late, I'm sorry if I'm not coming across clearly.
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>>3184898
>It's not false.
YES, IT IS.
>He explicitly said the he, Jews and Christians worship the same god, thus that makes them brothers like any Muslim.
JEWS WORSHIP YHWH.
CHRISTIANS, AND MOHAMMEDANS, WORSHIP GOD.
>Read the Quran and a few biographies.
THE QURAN IS CORRUPT, AND THE LEGITIMACY OF SOME BIOGRAPHY BY SOME PERSON, IS INFINITELY MORE DUBIOUS THAN THE QURAN, AND THE AHADITH, THEMSELVES.
>If you think Judaism is an ethnicity, not a religion...
JEWISH = ETHNICITY.
JUDAISM = RELIGION.
ZIONISM = IDEOLOGY.
>... the word is "Semite"...
NO, THE WORD IS "JEW".
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>>3184912
Alright, it seems like you're discounting anyone has ever said with any academic certainty about the Jews. You even used the word "Mohammadan", with is like a 19th western understanding of Islam, and asserted that YHWH is not the same Heavenly Father that Jesus spoke about or the "Allah" of Mohammed, that sent Gabriel, an agent of YHWH.
Theology aside, why do think the Jews are vermin? You never did answer directly.
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>>3184580
It's only a puzzle because you think there's something better. Life is what it is, whether or not you find it fulfilling is irrelevant, all that matters is that your genepool continues to propagate itself into the future,
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>>3184937
You realize that by replying, YOU are the dope, right? HE has severe mental retardation, what's YOUR excuse?
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>>3184937
>Alright, it seems like you're discounting anyone has ever said with any academic certainty about the Jews.
1. "ACADEMIC CERTAINTY" DOES NOT NECESSARILY ENTAIL TRUTH.
2. I AM NOT DISREGARDING ANY PARTICULAR "ACADEMIC OPINIONS"; I AM DISREGARDING YOUR OPINION.
>You even used the word "Mohammadan", with is like a 19th western understanding of Islam...
ISLAM IS THE ETHICONORMATIVE COMPONENT OF MOHAMMEDANISM; THE NAME OF THE DOCTRINE AS A WHOLE IS "MOHAMMEDANISM", NOT "ISLAM".
>... and asserted that YHWH is not the same Heavenly Father that Jesus spoke about or the "Allah" of Mohammed, that sent Gabriel, an agent of YHWH.
"THE HEAVENLY FATHER" IS THE DEMIOURGOS.
YHWH IS A DEMON.
GOD IS GOD.
DO YOU HAVE A "POINT"?
>Theology aside, why do think the Jews are vermin?
"EVIL", UGLY, PARASITIC; THEY ARE THE LOWEST OF THE SUBHUMAN.
>You never did answer directly.
YOU HAD EVEN NOT ASKED.
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>>3184580
Because you've discovered one of the two main responses to the reality of conditioned existence.
The first, and more common, response to an intelligent being finding itself in a world of conditioned, contingent, changing, becoming, etc is to crave Being. To seek the Unconditioned, which is imagined as Eternal, Immortal, Unchanging, Undying, and Perfect. This is the path of many a mystic, philosopher, ascetic, and religious devotee [though note that this path doesn't have a monopoly on any of those groups].
The second path, which you have discovered, is to rejoice in the process of Becoming, acknowledging Change [and its attending gains and losses] as a welcomed part of existence, a challenge to be met, rather then fled from. This doesn't necessarily mean thinking the universe is perfect, or ideal, it means recogonizing that the perfect, ideal universe would be one that still was composed of Becoming, Change, Gains, Losses, Victory, Defeat, and so on. That the conditioned, contingent, finite, changing, living, dying cosmos is a good thing, not something to be torn down.
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>>3184990
YOU ARE IGNORANT REGARDING WHAT YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO DISCUSS, AND REGARDING MY PERSON.
WHY ARE YOU SO UPSET TO THE DEGREE THAT YOU FOLLOW ME TO EVERY THREAD IN WHICH I POST?
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>>3184999
This is literally my first time conversing with you that i remember. Also talking in caps lock doesn't make your voice suddenly become divine pronouncements, it just makes people think you have autism.
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>>3184957
Sometimes I like to stare into the abyss.
>>3184966
While academia is no indicator of spiritual truth, modern scholarship is pretty good at finding secular truths. Of which I'm trying to ascertain here.
As far as my opinion goes, you have yet to refute it, but only cry "Jew". Hardly a dismissal.
You're speaking with absolute certainty about cultures that have millennia of history, things that they don't even have answers for. And yet you're putting "Islam" underneath "Mohammadanism" as a doctrine, but a doctrine of what? Ethnicity? You cannot tie a religion and ethnicity in so pretty a bow. You're speaking with authority, so provide evidence. What sort of background do you have to assert than an ethnicity, or multiple ethnicities, along with an Abrahamic religion fall under "Mohammedanism", which is an arachanic and nonsensical name rooted in ignorance?
How do you know YHWH is a demon? How do you know God? My point is that you're speaking about things you do not know. You cannot know because religion was purposely constructed to be obscure. You speak like you have answers to something no one does.
Can you please point how Jews are evil or parasitic? Do you have examples? Evidence? This is what I had asked.
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>>3184980
More or less an absurdist point of view. I agree with you, knowing that life is pointless and meaningless isn't supposed to be limiting but rather liberating.
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>human condition
No such thing exists, systematizer
All universals are invalid, no wonder another invalid thoughtform, nihilism, would go so popularly with another.
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>>3184794
>Read some fucking hacks
Eat my shit. Truth is nonexistent.
>ubububuh teh werld, ze ist abzurd! *commits hate crime*
Evil is meaningless under atheism you fucking dope.
>implying 'muh humanism' will be a proper rebuttal *systematically molests dozens of underage girls*
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>>3184898
SEMITES INCLUDE MANY ARABIC MUSLIMS. SO NO, 'SEMITE' IS NOT THE CORRECT WORD. A PALESTINIAN IS ALSO A SEMITE, YET SOME WOULD STAB YOU FOR CALLING THEM 'JEWS'.
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>>3184937
TAKE YOUR HUMANISM ELSEWHERE. YHWH IS NOT THE HEAVENLY FATHER NO MORE THAN BRAHMAN OR BA'AL ARE, OR EACHOTHER,.
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>>3184794
>You cannot derive meaning, only assign it
What makes you think you can assign meaning?
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>>3185030
This is some advanced shitposting anon. Here's a (you).
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>>3185009
TRUTH DOES NOT EXIST, AND 'SECULAR TRUTH' IS ITSELF A HUMANIST MEME. ACADEMICS CLAIM OTHERWISE BECAUSE IT IS THEIR BREAD.
EVIDENCE IS ALSO ONE OF THESE MEMES.
RELIGION IS NOT CONSTRUCTED, THAT IS YET ANOTHER HUMANIST MEME. TAKE THESE MEMES BACK TO [S4S].
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>>3185014
Actually no, its not an absurdist point of view. My point is that in the face of a universe where loss and gain are possible, there are only two real options.
Take the three truths of Buddhism.
Dukkha [the reality that all desires ultimately grant only fleeting satisfaction and serve to themselves inflame more desires]
Anatta [the lack of essence in the cosmos]
Anicca [the impermanence of all conditioned things]
These statements are true, and many philosophies are a response to them, consciously or otherwise. Buddhism, along with many Platonist inspired or related philosophies seek a world or existence where these truths do not apply. But this is not the only option.
It is also possible to adapt yourself to these truths.
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>>3185050
Because it's our life to assign meaning to.
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>>3185064
>Because it's our life to assign meaning to.
You didn't answer my question.
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>>3185054
>any post that offends me is le shitpost!!! *smokes le cigarette* *LARPs as a Roman* *inserts bread into anus in hopes of reproduction*
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>>3185059
I see. Thanks for clearing that up. Got anything I should read?
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>>3185065
GO BACK TO TUMBLR WOMAN
DIALOGUE IS A PLATONIST (SOPHIST) MEME. TALKING DOES NOT MAGICALLY UNVEIL THE SEKRITS OF REULITY
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>>3185064
>Because it's our life to assign meaning to.
Why? According to who? Where is this arbiter? Are you certain you aren't just jumping the fence just to find yourself with a pole up your ass?
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>>3185067
>What makes you think you can assign meaning?
That question right? I thought I did answer it. I think that we as individuals can assign meaning to our lives because they are our lives, and because "meaning" is an intrinsic desire inherent to anyone with a life, that can be clearly understood, and is sometimes inextricably part of a "good life".
Do you think we can't assign meaning?
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>>3185075
Are you asserting that there's someone who knows my life better than I do? Who else is living my life?
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>>3185095
You're making a tumblrite's argument. Try harder, Platonist.
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>>3185084
>I think that we as individuals can assign meaning to our lives because they are our lives
We can assign meaning because they're our lives? Why do you think this? The fact that we have lives doesn't mean we can assign meaning to them.
>because "meaning" is an intrinsic desire inherent to anyone with a life, that can be clearly understood
I believe that meaning can manifest itself to you, but you don't have much control over it in the same way that you cannot really control what interests you.
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>>3185100
So, beneath the ad hominem and shitposting, you believe that I am not the master of my own life. Do you think God is?
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>>3185105
>ad hominem and shitposting is bad
STOP TELLING ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE YOU FUCKING WHITE DUDE! I AM INVINCIBLE, FEARLESS, POWERFUL, AMAZING, PERFECT. YOU'RE JUST FUCKING WHITE!
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>>3185104
You must be a theist. If you are, there's no conclusion to this argument, but I guess I can give you insight to how I think.
I believe we have free agency over our lives, and that includes meaning. For example, if I found meaning in shitposting, I might decide to be this anon >>3185068 and waste time. He's allowed to do that, it's his time and life, he's not truly harming anyone, he's not doing anything constructive, but it's the meaning of his life. Life is short and special, despite how reality is neither, so I think dedicating it to something worthwhile is grand. "The meaning of my life is x" is something most everyone has thought of, I'm sure.
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>>3185072
I AM SILLY.
>>3185071
The Doctrine of Awakening by Evola, which approaches this problem from the Buddhist perspective.
And then Nietzche, who approaches the problem of Conditioned Existence from the opposite perspective.
Its easy to see this problem [which shouldn't be understood as THE philosophical problem, but as one of them] in many debates and concepts.
For instance, someone who wanted to flee conditioned existence could do so by removing himself from the game as much as possible.
-Spartanizing his living conditions
-Minimizing his necessities
-Emotionally detaching himself from his possessions or what happens to him.
-Etc
But the second path, the one I favor, involves steps such as
-Fortifying and improving your empirical self
-Adapting to the conditions of constant flux by prioritizing your pursuits and acting with aims in mind.
-Taking pleasure in the game and challenge itself, instead of simply the prizes.
-Reifying common experiences and the mere fact of conditioned existence.
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>>3185111
Man, at least the tripfag engaged me in an arguement. What're you doing?
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>>3185116
>I believe we have free agency over our lives, and that includes meaning
YOUR BELIEFS DONT MATTER YOU FUCKING WHITE MALE
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>>3185123
>arguments are good
STOP FALLING FOR PLATONIST MEMES, YOU ENTER THAT ACADEMY AND YOU'LL FIND SOMETHING BULBOUS RUBBING BETWEEN YOUR THIGHS, BOY. AND IM NOT TALKING ABOUT A MUD EEL.
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>>3185120
Thanks mate I appreciate it.
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>>3185030
oh it's the >LAAAWWWJJIIKK guy
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>>3185177
Or it's one of the hundreds here who regular reddit!
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>>3185116
> if I found meaning in shitposting
But that's exactly my point, you FIND meaning, you don't DECIDE what is meaningful. You seem to think that people sit down and ponder on what they should find meaning in their lives. In fact it works exactly in the opposite, you stumble upon something and that something you find meaningful.
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>>3185192
"Find meaning" is an expression, a romantic one at that. It's more accurate to say "decide that this is meaning, out of many meanings I almost decided upon, of which is entirely governed on how I live my life". The notion of "found meanings" implies that it was always there, but I believe it's transient. Something anecdotal, I thought my meaning in life was to change the world, but as I grew up and matured I decided that it was to change someone's world. I wanted to help people. I don't really care how I did it, but I knew that I wanted to.
You can argue that this meaning was given to me by God, but I personally find that hard to believe, but arguing for an against God's existence is moot.
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