I was born 71 years ago. For 42 years, I've ruled as Spanish

Rey Planeta

The eternal Dutch

>>3166182
He dug his own grave by stubbornly trying to force Catholicism down the throat of the Dutch. Fucking the Dutch anthem says that William The Silent has always honoured the king of Spain as his Lord, but it was the suffering of his people that made him rebel. I think the Spanish Netherlands definitely would have had a viable opportunity if only he wasn't as stubborn and a bit more agreeing

>>3166246
>force Catholicism down throats of the dutch
>force
most dutch people in the 1560s and 1570s were still catholic and if you include the flemish remained a majority catholic people until the late 20th century. it wasn't that much of a religious conflict as it was a geopolitical one to limit spanish dominance in northern europe, the ploy was supported by spains rivals such as england.

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>>3166182
You ... I've seen you... Let me see your face... You are the one from my dreams... Then the stars were right, and this is the day. Gods give me strength.

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>>3166182
>>3166289

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>>3166182
The Spanish are breaking,
Greet the new day

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>>3166289

>>3166182
t. self-hating dutchman

>>3166271
wat. you realize that flanders and brabant remained catholic only because philip had these lands reconquered? the dutch revolt STARTED in flanders and brabant and spread north. it was the eternal walloon that remained catholic the whole time because the french lands of the low countries remained rural and dominated by a catholic nobility. it was the eternal walloon that collaborated with spanish officials to pacify the protestant rebels. fuck you, my man.

>>3166850
>french lands of the low countries
french speaking areas* i mean

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>>3166850
not just flanders and brabant but also Overijssel, large parts of north and south holland remained catholic.

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>>3166850
but also areas where iconoclastic outbreaks didn't occur and were majority catholic were forcibly calvinized by the dutch rebels.

>>3166850

But religión wasn't the primary issue at the beggining. It was the economic '''crisis''' or in other words the rise in the price of basic food, particularly cereals imported from the baltic, that suffered as a consequence of the war between Sweden and Denmark, whic started the fire.

This affected the lowest popular classes, peasants which were particularly spurred by sectarian calvinist propaganda to rebel against established 'old order' authority. Shitposting of the times. This then combined badly with the promulgation of the Trinitarian Edicts, the capture by English pirates of the salaries sent to pay for the Army of Flanders (which forced the Government in Brussels to levy taxes for it, which made the situation more incendiary), the complicated positiion of the nobility, in a a difficult equilibrium between the uproraring calvinist-agitated-shitposted peasant goys and the Royal Government in Brussels, and the terrible retarded management of the situation by Felipe II everytime by bait-clicking and sending in the Army of the Duke of Alba to start cucking people with a maze, at a time in which the flemish nobility had managed to take charge of the situtation and had proposed respect for freedom of cult under the Compromise of Breda, a political compromise that was well received by the Brussels Government of Margarita de Parma.

But then the Duke of Alba showed up, began cucking people left and right, hanging Egmont and Horn, levying new taxes, etc. Being "based" in /pol/ terminology.

Margarita pissed off, renounced as a result and things unravelled. Basically both sides ended up being hijacked by extremists that had been shilling for discord for a long time. "Based" calvinist fanatics with English backdoor shilling and support on one side, and the muh Pope, muh Inquisition, muh Imperial Authority on the other.

>>3166946
that's what i mean... let's face it, had the rebels suceeded, so-called Dutch """"""""""""""tolerance"""""""""""""" would have been anything but. Accommodating Catholics in the Dutch Republic was done out of exigencies, not out of humanitarian impulse. Granted, the regents of Holland were abnormally tolerant for those times, but if there were no Catholic threat you'd bet the Catholics would have been forcibly converted or persecuted outright as they were in England.

>>3167187
to clarify this post, I'm arguing against the anon that said it wasn't a religious conflict. I argue that while on the surface it appeared that way, religious factors were always under the surface and another timeline may have seen factors that made persecution of catholics easily possibly. Indeed, there were plenty in the Dutch republic that wanted to persecute Catholics as it was

>>3166941
true, but these were historically poorer and rural regions, even moreso than artois, namur, liege and luxembourg (the first two being very productive wheat growers, iirc the bread basket of the lowlands as well as northern france) to the south if I'm not mistaken. The northern Catholic regions basically sat on their hands as the revolt unfolded and eventually got conquered by the Dutch relatively easily.

>It was the economic '''crisis''' or in other words the rise in the price of basic food, particularly cereals imported from the baltic, that suffered as a consequence of the war between Sweden and Denmark, whic started the fire.
true. but as you say yourself the calvinist ideology provided a powerful and potentially revolutionary counternarrative that was fuel for a revolt with a devoted following willing to carry it through to the end.

>his then combined badly...and the terrible retarded management of the situation by Felipe II everytime by bait-clicking and sending in the Army of the Duke of Alba to start cucking people with a maze
iirc philip sent troops not only to restore order but he had a more grandiose vision of stamping out protestantism and restoring the authority of the church. part of the administrative changes that the people in the low countries hated so much was the alignment of church boundaries with the provinces as a kind of centralization measure so that the inquisition could work more efficiently. I can be mixing things up though.

Anyway, I agree it probably didn't start religiously but as I say above the religious aspect cont.

>>3167239
cont.
kept it burning hotter and longer than it would have otherwise

>>3167243
also all the retarded shit that Parma did was usually on philip's direct orders. Parma himself was a pragmatist and was more than willing to compromise. iirc he himself never realized that egmont and horn would be executed.

>>3166182
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimabara_Rebellion

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>>3166289

>>3167254

>he

Alejandro Farnesio, Duke of Parma, wasn't even around there at the time.

The Governor was Margarita de Parma at the time. Yes she was willing to compromise with the nobility, but couldn't do shit but protest at the course of action when the Duke of Alba arrived and started being based.

>>3167396
>women rulers
Not even once

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>>3166182
>>3166289
Good thread.

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Stop right there, protestant scum, pay the Church an indulgence or serve your sentence, Your printed Bibles are now forfeit

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>>3166289
Holy kek

>>3167956
You Protestants are all the same, all scripture and no tradition!

>>3167780
fuck off desu. the low countries had a succession of competent female rulers in the 16th century. Margarita did absolutely nothing wrong and it was the retard Philip II that forced her hand because of his abrasive ideological and absolutist program

>>3167396
maybe im thinking of parmas later actions vs the rebels, where he was pretty pragmatic i think