How is islam supposed to be a religion of peace when it was literally

Islam isn't a religion of peace, they're spooked.

Is there much else to this conversation?

>>3156731

Religion of peace doesnt mean peaceful religion

>>3156731
>if you kill your enemies, they win

Christianity in a nutshell

>>3156731
OP I like your line of reasoning,

but it would be better/more accurate to just state muhammad talked peace until he had enough followers to to go on the warpath.

I think the bigger difference is in the books.

the bible is not a single book, it's a collection of many books,
I mean there's the old testament and the New Testament, in the New Testament there's 4 seperate accounts of roughly the same events, followed by some letters which lack context (as in what the letter was in reply too), and some narratives about the lives of the apostles after jesus had died/resurrected/ascended. The ending is a fucking feverdream by a guy who was living in exile on a rock in the Mediterranean.

The nature of the bible is so much more flexible than the Koran, which seems very much explicitly designed to NOT be flexible, from the "it must be original arabic", to "Last Prophet" to all the other shit in it, it seems deliberately designed to shore up a theocracy.

>>3156731
>How is islam supposed to be a religion of peace when it was literally founded on conquest?

But that's so fucking wrong, you fucking retard.

>>3156894

Not an argument

>>3156731
>How is islam supposed to be a religion of peace
It's not.

>>3156731
Mass graves are very peaceful

Then we could say true Christianity is only that which was not spread by conquerors?

That would leave out the Catholic Church, at least.

Islam does not mean peace, it means submission; by letting god or whatever control yer fate you are hoping for peace.
That being said Islam did not solely spread through conquest but by trade and even by just a local king converting b/c it sounds cool and shieet.


If you are looking for a peaceful sect of Islam you have to seek out the Batiniyya sects of Islam. This is found in the Bektashi and more so in the Alevi of Anatolia.


to;dr Islam by itself sucks but it is god tier when paired with other stuff like Buddhism or Shamanism

>>3156731
Religion of Peace was made up after 9/11 to try to make normal people see Jihadists differently from regular Muslims. Islam was never a religion of peace.

>Christianity
>founded by a peace-loving hippie
>becomes a intolerant killing machine that exterminates all non-Christians

>Islam
>founded by a conquering warlord
>tolerates other faiths fine

Just compare the fate of pagans in Northern Europe and Muslims in Spain with the fate of pagans in Mesopotamia, such as the Yazidi and the Sabeans and of Christians in the Levant and Egypt.

Christianity was always more intolerant than Islam, and if from the 20th century onwards that "changed", it's only because Christianity became less relevant.

>>3156901
First, it wasn't literally founded on conquest. The reason why Muhammad attacked and Conquered Mecca is because the people on Mecca keep denying the Muhammad's Divine Revelation (though Muhammad has already been so kind and peaceful in the way he spread Islamic doctrine). That's why he fled to medina and organized his army to prepare the counterattack.

>Then how about early Muslim conquest
There was many reason of it, but mainly because Arab was surrounded by two Major empire (Byzantine and Sassanids) and being passive without doing anything is not a wise thing to do.

>>3156971
>islam
>tolerant
Lol fucking leftists

>>3156980
I bet you're that kind of guy who judge everything simply by seeing its cover.

>>3156894
It's only peaceful when everyone is under Islam. Until that happens there will be no peace

>>3156926
What you wrote is interesting, do you have any examples you can point me to of Islam being paired with Buddhism or Shamanism? Are you referring to Sufi Islam?

>>3156983
Nah I'm a fag that knows better than to want a bunch of bloodthirsty murderous goat fuckers in my country.

>>3156971
You stupid nigger

>yazidis
We're legally persecuted by the ottomans and basically forced to live isolated or face problems. In modern times wellllllll
>sabeans
Offered conversion with threat of war


Not like christians are much better but all abrahamic faiths need to go back to the desert and die.

>>3156971
Kingdom of Heaven wasn't historically accurate, just so you know.

>>3156996
>ywn go back in time and tell Cyrus not to help the Hebrews

>>3156926
Hahahahahahahaha!! Nice try cuck. There is no such thing as a "peaceful" sect of Pisslam! They are potential terrorists and deserve our scorn! Hahahahahaha enjoy being cucked faggot.

>>3156742

fpbp

>>3156978
So because Mecca denied Muhammad's Divine Revelation he attacked them?

>>3157050
Meccan denied Muhammad's Divine Revelation leading to persecution, although Muhammad keep patient in spreading Islamic doctrine until he fled to medina (known as Hijra) because the situation became way more dangerous.

>>3156987
Well, I am Alevi. The sect is how the nomadic Turks of central Asia interpreted Islam when they first encountered it from the Sufi. These nomadic Turks had shamanism and Buddhism so they readily mixed these with their Islam, and added Christianity and Zoroastrianism to it when they came to Anatolia over Iran.


Alevism has the following; infinite reincarnation and achieving godhood/semi divinity like Buddhism, extreme respect for fire like Zoroastrianism, supposedly our Semah is descendent from shamanism, and Ali is supposedly held the same with us as Jesus to Christians (some claim we are just wildly heretic Christians)

Islam is a religion for pedophile savages

>>3157124
Hahahahahah too bad mudslime! Sufi rhymes with poopie. And we all know what we think of excrement.

Nuke Mecca now!

>>3157124
Your prophets are being boiled eternally in vats of pig blood and shit for all eternity

>>3157050
>Jesus gets persecuted for saying he is holy
>Everyone denies it except for a few apostles and Jesus does not resort to violence
>Muh-hummus gets persecuted for saying he is the divine word of god or whatever
>Know what, fuck them im right. I just know it. Im gonna gather an army and make damn sure everyone knows im right.

""""Islam is religion of peace""""

>>3157157
>prophets
Well, Jesus is one of them and one that I love for he is a reincarnation of God

>>3157150
Cool story brah

>>3157167
Fuck all the desert rat religions. Worst things to happen to humanity.

>>3157174
Eh, arguably true but as people move up the socioeconomic ladder people become less religious. I myself am apatheist but still able to view myself as Alevi. I hope most people will be able to become more lax about religion in the future. Live and let live

>>3157167
You won't be laughing when the day of the rope comes to you and your leftist subhuman allies. Time for the nukes! Reeve up those gas chambers because its going to get a little gassy in here.

>>3156731

HOW DOES ONE ESTABLISH PEACE IN A WORLD OF VIOLENCE? VIA RETALIATORY VIOLENCE; BY CONQUERING AND VANQUISHING THOSE BELLICOSE ONES THAT INITIATE VIOLENCE.

>>3156731
It's not, it's a realistic religion which acknowledges that you need violence sometimes and peace at other times.

>>3157201
>>day of the rope

Take that "Moonman" bullshit somewhere else.

>>3157228

Well certainly a religion that condones violence is going to bring us closer to global peace. Even if the entire world converted to islam, every nation would still have its own interests, just as no matter how religiously homogeneous europe was, there was still some kind of conflict. And look at it before the islamic refugee crisis, it had been in peace for a damned long time. Now the EU is dissolving in its own multiculti cesspool.

>>3157271
Hahaha oh man I can't wait until Trump puts me in charge of exterminating people like you! I can't wait until I can be a camp guard while you Muslims get a taste of your own medicine.

>>3157271
Stop feeding the troll.

>>3156731
Well thats an extremely simplistic, biased and uninformed view of the founding of Islam.

Yes the founding is surrounded by military conflict, but the first 13 years were nothing but peaceful preaching in the face of continual ridicule, and the final years of war were not started by the Muslims, who had managed to set up their own state only to be declared war upon by all those around them.

It should also be noted that Muhammad forced no one to believe, even when he finally conquered Mecca, capturing the people who had persecuted him the most, he did not force them to convert, or kill them.

>>3156894
I dont understand
Are you contending that Islam was not founded on conquest? Because that is the stupidest thing ive ever read on this whole board.
The fucking seminal moment of Islams early days was the conquest of Mecca. After that its pretty much nonstop conquest until they reached France. Islam has never spread to be the major religion of anywhere (with the literal only exception being Indonesia) without violent force.
Retards like you always bring up Christian conquests as if that somehow is relevant so im just gonna go ahead and say that yes Christianity also spread with a lot of violent force, after all the entire new world was violently colonized by christians. But Christianity has spread peacefully in many other places, whereas Islam only kind of has spread peacefully to maybe one place.

>>3156978
>dont want to be passive in the face of Byzantine and Sassanid empires threatening borders
>invade and conquer north africa
what?

>>3157397
>forced no one to believe
i mean, if threatening all non believers with death or life as a step above slaves compared to non muslims isnt forcing then i dont know what is.
>first 13 years were nothing but peaceful
oh my god you are fucking retarded. So because it was based totally on peaceful resistance for 13 years and then violent expansion and then persecution for literally the rest of its history even up until today we should consider it a peaceful religion?
Why dont we consider all christians peace loving hippies? I mean thats what it was founded on right? So all of their actions after that dont matter at all.

>>3157406
>with the literal only exception being Indonesia

Although they did later purge communists with partly the reasoning that they were non islamic

>>3157395
Yes faggot stop feeding me because it won't matter because both you and this anon I am responding to is going to get the oven. Reeve up those gas chambers now.

>>3156731
>and felt the only way to make people believe him was by force
so did the Christians apparently since they conquered pagans, and forced them to convert at the point of the sword and built churches over their holy sites.

>>3157406
>Are you contending that Islam was not founded on conquest
Not him, but arabia was surrounded by the persian empire, and the byzantine empire, if they didn't conquer they would be conquered themselves. Muhammad and the caliphs knew this. It was the time of conquer and conquest.

>>3157496
Well, how does that refute the point?
You just confirmed that it was necessarily born of conquest, since that was the nature of the time.

>>3157469
The conquest of pagans happened hundreds of years after the death of christ.
Its inception was not of conquest. He lived his entire life as a virgin pacifist.

>>3156774
This desu Muhammad wasn't bad until the Quraysh got fed up with his shit, which prompted him to move to Medina. It didn't help either that the Jews fucked with him there too.
Muhammad was at least fairly kind for a conqueror, but he was not peaceful, nor were his rightly guided caliphs.

>>3157496
No they wouldn't you fag, both the ERE and the Sassanids had buffer states on the fringes of Arabia because they thought the peninsula was a worthless desert full of pagan warriors and didn't want them going into their own territory.
Arabia was never a legitimate target for either state.

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>>3157496
>if they didn't conquer they would be conquered themselves
Jews on the other hand manage to have war in their bible, but get conquered utterly and sprinkled across the western world, and still exist today as a moderately peaceful religion.

Only Muslims have this problem needing to convince the world they follow a peaceful ideology. It would do them such a credit if they could just own the violence or cry out for reformation.
Instead we get neither, we have this culture of bad liars and apologists and it just reinforces the hate.

The best the modern world gets is pic related shit, calling it "assimilation".
Like female circumcision is suddenly a wholesome American tradition if the girl's wearing a flag.

>>3157598
That is because outside of Qur'anists and some other quasi-heretical sects the Islamic world is at least 100-200 years behind in essentially every aspect that is the "modern" world.
These people bemoan how awful christianity was in the past and then readily invite an even worse counterpart into the country with open arms lmao

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>>3157604
>That is because outside of Qur'anists and some other quasi-heretical sects the Islamic world is at least 100-200 years behind in essentially every aspect that is the "modern" world.

>Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

>>3157598
Jews were not surrounded by the two most powerful and conquering empires at the time. The Muslims defeated these two empires, after that they didn't need conquest.
>inb4 crusades
Crusades was a conquest to take back what was the Muslims' before
So after the Muslims defeated these two most powerful empires, they didn't need to conquer. Muslims never conquered Indonesia, yet Indonesia has the most Muslims today. Africa was not touched by Muslims yet Africa is Muslim today. (North)
>>3157558
>You just confirmed that it was necessarily born of conquest, since that was the nature of the time.
Yes, that's the point. Muhammad was a smart man, he knew what he was dealing with. The medieval era is not the modern world, you can't compare the two.
>>3157590
>Arabia was never a legitimate target for either state
This was before Muhammad, after Muhammad came the two empires realized that the Arabs had united and they posed a great threat. Thus the war began and Allah (SWT) granted victory to the Muslimeen.

>>3156945
This. "Religion of Peace" was a phrase coined by George W. Bush after 9/11.

>>3156745
Be at peace in our religion, or we'll fucking kill you

>>3156731
Watch out OP, I got a 3 day ban for a similar topic and I actually cited historical people and texts.
History and humanities aren't allowed on history and humanities because of Arab mods I guess.

>>3156731

the black t-shirt explains it all. It says, reading the symbols logically, "I islamically love islam". The symbol for love is embedded in the religious one. Coherence in own religious identity is more important than a concept ( such as love ) which could allow religions to communicate with each other. I of course completely overinterpretate the sht out of this t-shirt, but you get the general idea that might answer your question.

>>3157692
>after Muhammad they realized they posed a great threat
an apocalyptic 20+ year war had just finished between the two states, they didn't give a shit about Muhammad

Islamic history is just as shitty, if not more so than the "history" found in the OT+NT combined.
>yeah guys Abraham totally traveled 1000+km to help build the kabah (ignoring the timeline fuckery)
The entire thing read like bad capeshit fanfiction where the author desperately wants you to believe this character and the shitty half-assed retcons behind him are way better than every other superhero

>>3157692
May be wrong, but wasn't Mecca along a major trading route?

>>3158957
>Muhammad is the Brian Michael Bendis of religion

That's a nice whitewashing of Jesus who thought gentiles were dogs and was a leader of a pro-Jewish and anti-Roman sect.

You're taking Pauline Christianity and retroactively applying it to Jesus himself who had different views (as far as historians can even agree on the basics).

Also Christianity became more than a minority religion in the Roman empire due to imperial support and via directly combatting other cults at the end of the day.

In the ideological war against Islam, you're starting to see even right-wing atheists try to fit Christianity in an idealized monolithic mold that it never belonged to and it's too funny.

>>3156971
>Just compare the fate of pagans in Northern Europe and Muslims in Spain with the fate of pagans in Mesopotamia, such as the Yazidi and the Sabeans and of Christians in the Levant and Egypt.

That's just trolling right? Pagans and other sects in Europe were actually more persecuted than 'people of the book' were in Muslim lands before the modern radicalization. Not that there wasn't persecution and basically second-class status for most minorities in the past, including non-Muslims in Islam.

>>3156996
The Ottoman empire was even more tolerant than nationalist pseudo-secular Turkey was towards its Christian minorities.

>>3156978
t. Shufti Al Mufti

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>>3156731
>HAHA for this next trick, I'll show how a platitude popularized by heavyweight intellectual and rhetorical superpower George W Bush is mere fantasy!
Congrats I guess.

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>>3157406
Islam spread peacefully to places like Hungary in the 8th-10th centuries, the northern Caucasus, Mozambique, and Malabar as well as several smaller merchant/marine colonies in Southern China, Indochina, and Subsaharan Africa before the rise of the Fulani.

Also, Islam's seminal moment is Muhammad's escape to Medina. It's kind of why its calendar begins on that date, and not on the day of Muhammad's return which is considered a formality after the more celebrated and pivotal earlier and disadvantaged battles of Badr, Uhud, and the Trench.

>>3156731
The mistake people make is thinking Islam, or any of the larger religions, are actually founded at a certain moment by one person. Jesus did not found Christianity any more than Muhammad founded Islam. These two figures were apocalyptic preachers who attained a great spiritual reputation within their lifetimes to influence like-minded bureaucrats to consolidate their ideals into a stable philosophical school of thought. Christianity was not founded amidst the Roman subjugation of Judea but in the various urban metropolises of the Eastern Mediterranean looking back on sketchy reports of events in Judea some years before. Islam was not founded amidst the wars of the Hedjaz but in the urban boomtowns of Kufa and Basra looking back on sketchy reports of events in Arabia some years before.

Islam's real problem is big-tent politics which had them include specifically violent philosophies and cultures into the patchwork of Islamic communities historically, and in modern times the break down of the boundaries between these communities because of modern communication technology. It's a federation with compromises for some violent ideologies because of the violent cultures which had always existed in the border regions between the more civilized regions of the Middle East and those of Europe, India, or China.

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>>3156971
>Islam tolerates other faiths fine

>>3159300
but it's true, and historically especially so. I'm not sure why you have to take the current status quo and retroactively apply it to a millennium and a half

Christianity was no more tolerant than Islam towards other faiths, arguably less so

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>>3156971
You are misunderstanding the aims of the religion and the inherent cruelty and oppression of the State. The bible warns about the evils of kings, and Christianity teaches that followers of Christ should not be concerned with worldly affairs.
Islam however mandates that the entire world should be fought with until everyone submits to Islam, and gives very detailed descriptions of how this submission can take place with the Jizya and other laws for Dhimmi.

>>3157124
Do you live in Turkey? How is it for you being a part of a non orthodox sect?

>>3156731

Liberals are stupid and should be ignored

>>3156894

Nice sources faggot

Ps you are wrong

>>3159319
I'll concede the bulk of Islamist states may have been, because of the religion's autistic description of bringing about a worldwide caliphate. Meanwhile Christianity was coopted by the Roman Empire and then religious orthodoxy became a mattwr of loyalty or rebellion against the state.
Christianity is naturally apolitical. Pat your taxes, obey laws, and you can be a good Christian. There is nothing about a Christian State in the teachings of Christ or the epistles
The Quran literally describes how an Islamic state functioned under Muhammad.
In both cases you have states using religion as a method of gaining legitimacy and gaining support but one is being shoehorned into an oppressive tool, the other is an oppressive tool.

>>3159341
Not him, so I don't agree that Islam has no issues with tolerating religious minorities, but to say Christianity is unconcerned with worldly affairs while Islam mandates it is incorrect also. The evils of kings as part of the reason why Arabia united behind a prophet in the first place, why the early Islamic theological community focused so heavily on antinomian attitudes towards kingly authority, and so on. What people construe as a mandate and 'detailed descriptions' of a world conquest plan are in fact theoretical and academic extrapolations of ideologies far smaller in scope (legal jurisprudence about no-man's-land between Muslim held territory and hostile provinces) and later attributing of themes of submission and persecution onto archaic tax codes and sumptuary laws designed for the complete opposite purpose.

>>3156731
women who convert to islam just prove their own intellectual inferiority. it's completely asinine to want islam

>>3159378
>The Quran literally describes how an Islamic state functioned under Muhammad.
It doesn't. Not even the Hadiths go into much detail about that, which is why the vast majority of Islamic jurisprudence in history was focused on personal law with most everything dealing with matters of state being extrapolated from local customs or on precedent of later caliphs and sultans. For being naturally apolotical, it was Christianity which had bishoprics acting as political units for both law and taxation while almost every instance of an Islamic equivalent were the result of a short-lived heretical revolt.

>>3159319
Incorrect. Christianity and Islam have completely different approaches to how to deal with non believers. This is embodied in how each deals with proselytization. In Christianity, the method is to ask them to follow you, Christ says that those who do not attach themselves to the message will not do so because they are not ready. He likens belief to seeds cast on a field, and where the seeds take root is where the holy are. Muhammad on the other hand was a conqueror who exlusively preached a convert or die methodology.

>>3159423
No, all of that is incorrect. Both faiths are in theory interested in calling people to belief without compulsion, but in practice have been coercive in their approach. Christianity however has been historically very jealous of sacred spaces whereas Islam was more concerned about establishing boundaries between communities. Muhammad did not exclusively preach a convert or die ideology either. In fact he did not preach any sort of ideology, one was merely extrapolated from sermons that were specifically targeting polities like "pagan" Mecca by later writers, and even they did not draw up a convert or die methodology.

>>3157576
>Muhammad was at least fairly kind for a conqueror,
beheading a whole tribe of jews even kids who were classed as men by checking if they had just one pubic hair

>>3156983
>t. never read anything about the 4 caliphs and their deaths, never read about the wars of muhammad, never read the hadiths about chopping hands and feet of sick captives and then giving them urine as "medicine", never even fucking read the quran

>>3159215
that was later on nearer the time of the tanzimat reforms just before the young turks fucked everything up

>>3159196
or maybe the Randy Pitchford of religion

>>3159450
Oh please, Muhammad pissed people off because he went around Mecca and Medina preaching at people and then forcing them into situations where they had to answer yes or no to joining islam. When they told him to fuck off he got so butthurt he raised an army.

>>3156731
The "religion of peace" part is bullshit. Pretend it's the only one that justifies or justified religious violence is retarded however.

For instance, the Northen Crusades exist for Christianity; and currently Buddhists in Burma are actively suppressing Muslims.

In short, all religions, if they want to have a chance at spreading beyond the size of a sect, must at some point allow for some kind of message of peace. That's where the point of "religion of peace" comes up: you can conquer all you want, but as a religion that is still a minority, you cannot afford to literally kill every single infidel, because you don't have the resources needed to do that and suppress any backlash from "old believers." And, even then, acting as if non-believers don't exist/ don't matter is a losing proposition.

>>3159867
That's not what happened though, and I think you know it.

>>3156731
It's not a religion of peace. Go back to >>/pol/ with your shitposting.

>>3159923
No, that was horrendously simplified but Muhammad was hardly blameless

>>3159986
Not even simplified nor exaggerated, you're simply off the mark altogether and are now shifting goalposts from 'Muhammad preached convert or die' to 'Muhammad preached non-violently and failed so he used force' to 'he's responsible in some way.'

Point is he did not preach a convert or die theology even when he had an actual army to make good on a threat like that.

>>3160130
He didnt preach convert or die. He practiced it. What a great guy :^)

>>3160149
He did neither. And for all his failings, at least he didn't shitpost.

>>3160309
But the quran is a literal shitpost

>>3160130
I never said Muhammad preached convert or die, you have me confused with a different poster. >>3159867 was my first post.
Muhammad didn't preach convert or die but he was definitely a dick who intentionally sought out confrontations with other members of the Quraysh.

>>3160321
>Muhammad didn't preach convert or die but he was definitely a dick who intentionally sought out confrontations with other members of the Quraysh.
And what did that have to do with anything I was talking about in the first post you replied to? If you just wanted to express a low opinion of Muhammad or rabble-rousing preachers you could have saved us all the confusion.

>>3160345
Because you were discussing Muhammads preaching and at the time it was the newest post?

>live in the lawless desert with savage bedouins
>get banished from your mecca and take your autism to medina
>establish and defend an empire for your followers
>after your death you save your followers from getting conqured by byzantis and persians

Compared to
>live in the roman empire
>die like a pussy and leave your followers to roman soldiers,years later some guy writes that you """died for their sins"""

what would've happened to him if he didnt take the swords

>>3160609
>after your death you save your followers from getting conqured by byzantis and persians
what the fuck are you talking about

>die like a pussy and leave your followers to roman soldiers,years later some guy writes that you """died for their sins"""
jesus told his disciples he was going to get murdered and when they showed up to take him he complied, if anything he playing 4d chess

>>3156978
t. abdul

Islam acknowledges the supposed legitimacy of other Abrahamic religions. Muslims believe Moses and Jesus to be prophets of God, so don't go thinking that Muhammad is the sole figure of what Islam truly is. He was just one, possibly the last, to Muslims.

Basically, Muslims believe in a single, almighty God that connects with humanity in numerous different forms. One could say the prophets all represent different aspects of humanity: our desires, our drives, our ideals, etc.

Islam is about acknowledging how mortal we are. It's about equality and peace. The only hierarchy that true Muslims believe in is Allah over humanity.

>>3161631
Islam allows for some of the legitimacy within but disagrees with both in many ways. Jews don't consider Jesus a prophet and neither do Christians (who was and is the target OF the prophesies in their worldview) the attempt to compromise served to piss off both parties long term.

Religion is only what the people who follow it believe. Christianity changes every generation same as Islam

>>3156774
>The nature of the bible is so much more flexible than the Koran, which seems very much explicitly designed to NOT be flexible
Exactly. That's also because Islam was historically a religion of merchands and traders. It's designed to be extremely straightforward and practical. Which is a huge part of the reasons why they completely throw off all the questions of "am I doing good in this life ? what should I do to become a better muslim ? etc." (questions and fears still supposedly presents in christianism) by installing the assanat as some kind of credits for heaven.

>>3156731
Thanks for making this thread for the 682904629102658292 time, your contribution to this board is very important.

>>3161684
wat

>>3161700
>they completely throw off all the questions of "am I doing good in this life ? what should I do to become a better muslim ? etc."

I have heard many stupid things said about Islam on this board, but this one takes the cake.

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>>3156971
>Islam
>tolerates other faiths fine
lmao have a (you)

>>3161730
>Taliban and Al-Qaeda
>killing innocents

Have a (You)

>>3161721
Then you should definitely read Koran my dear anon.

>>3161739
So you aren't denying that Islam does not tolerate other faiths well then?

>>3161746
When was Taliban ever intolerant of other faiths?

>>3157423
Nigga these communist thingy is basically a propaganda, yeah thanks to suharto the dicktator now indonesian have a very bad stigma towards communism that they think communism is equal to atheism.

t.real indonesian

>>3157227
This

>>3157413
*liberated
and so did the entire Muslim conquest, they were more like liberating rather than conquering, the non-Christian under Byzantine rule were getting oppressed and can't perform their religious act safely (take example the jews in Jerussalem) different thing when it was under Islamic caliphate.

Christian surely is peaceful religion, eh?

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>>3156731
>yet he forgave all sin

You people seem awfully confident that Jesus is just fine with you lugging him around using him as a vehicle to spread Moses' law to the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG7VtVr4eFw

>>3156752
>>if you kill your enemies, they win

No, the core message of Jesus is if you kill pagans in the name of God you're going to be tortured forever.

>>3157692
>Muhammad was a smart man, he knew what he was dealing with. The medieval era is not the modern world, you can't compare the two.

Pretty much this desu, at the time Jesus lives peacefully under Roman rule so he shouldn't bother to raise an army like "haha fuck it, am gonna kill myself to prove them that my preachings is the most righteous, so probably they will realize that they are basically retarded and finally submit to my glorious doctrines".

Jesus would probably do the same if he was a born in a land full of dessert which the people itself can't even write and surrounded by two major empire.

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Islam is cancer.

>>3162041
That says Islamism, you idiot. Islamism is the nationalist, fundamentalist political ideology that has very little to do with the religion itself.

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>>3156752
Don't put that shit on us, Leaf.

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>>3157598
Did they cut a fucking flag to do this? Color me MAD

>>3161631
>don't go thinking Muhammad is the only figure
Considering he changed Jewish and Christian lore to fit his narrative (on par or more than what Paul did) I would say Muhammad is the only actually important figure in the entire Qur'an, every one else is merely a familiar puppet for his ideologies.
>>3161700
This is a profoundly stupid post, what fantasy do you live in fag
>>3162018
No he wouldn't have run away and raised an army. Part of his whole message was that they shouldn't rebel against the government, even if they persecuted.
Jesus Christ, the state of Islamic education is fucking horrendous. They are dumber/more willfully ignorant than even the most delusional commies or white genocide faggots

>>3162041
>islamic terrorism has been around 20 years
>Islam has been around 892 years

Maybe the problem isn't as simple as you think

>>3161718
simply put Christianity 500 years ago isn't exactly the same as Christianity today because the believers have changed

>>3157227
TPBP (Tripfag Post Best Post)

>>3162018
Fuck this is quite retarded

>>3162636
Islam was slave raiding in the Mediterranean for at least a good 900 or so years.

>>3162988
to the victors go the spoils, tough luck kiddo

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>>3162041
>define terrorism in such a way that american acta of violence overseas don't count

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>>3156731
Muslim here. who the fuck said islam is a religiin of peace is fucking retarded.
WHAT IS JIHAD MAY I ASK YOU, LITTLE GIRL.
GO ask all those 5-12 yr old kids that watched the film Al-Risala (the message) 1973 what is your wish. they d say to go back in the era of mohamed and do JIHAD.
Islam is the only true religion.
>islam and misiginy
i dont know what misoginy means to you, but if it means treating woman as shit, then islam is not misoginostic and before islam women were trully treated like shit. like if a man finds his woman gave birth to a girl, he'd burry her alive. out pf fear of what is coming for here.

to be honest Islam is a mix.
>women have no power to divorce
>women must obey the husband
>wife cant sue here husband for """rape"''"
wtf seriously if fucking your wife is rape then what is the purpose of marriage.
Now,the pussywhipping side.
>men MUST spend on thier wives.
>men MUST give wife alimony
sadly
>men MUST spend on thier kids
>must spend on the boys untill the age of 18-20 he is free to not.
>must spend on daughters untill they marry.
how much to spend is not precised of course but the bare minimum is to afford shelter food and clothing.

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>>3164261
so in islam men are still the providers.
but its fair.
cause women arent allowed to fuck shit up. remeber ypu only have the right to divorce. but now with the globalism she can divorce. i dont remeber where the wife cant divorce thing, wait i ll search it up again. no its not forbidden its harder.
the reason is women are more emotional then men , and if given the right then divorce will spread easly and the society will colapse. like the west following the steps of Rome.
Islam is the right religion.
if the west takes islam as THIER religion then they would may i say rise into a golden age. imperialsim and colonialism would be brought back in full force.
islam isnt a costume or a beard.
>muh islam is an idiology
perfect.
i hate salafism and wahabism they are jew tools.
nuke isis if you are that worried.
your women needs a fix.
ps: if you were raised by a single mom, fuck off .

>>3162636
Islamic terrorism has been occuring continuously since the 7th century, senpai

>>3164261
>>3164265
Kek.
>marital rape doesn't exist

You are probably baiting but it's funny how people do shitloads of mental gymnastics to say that marital rape isn't a thing.

Also, I unironically believe that Islam is the final "redpill" of the world since it's the only religion whose clergy actually believe in their dogma, unlike those millions of protesants priests who just do whatever they can to convert people, even going as far as denying the bible and using the "It wasn't written by God" in a really liberal way.

>>3164455
How is marital rape a thing? Why is not just "rape"? Why are you married to someone who rapes you in the first place?

>>3164467
The "marital" word is there to classify it.

>Why are you married to someone who rapes you in the first place?

nigga what

>wife gets raped
>ask for divorce the next day for obvious reasons

Isn't that marital rape?

>>3156774
Why exactly would you want a "flexible" religion? You think you can just believe anything you want and still call yourself a Christian? That's some Protestant shit.

>>3156971
>wanting to tolerate other faiths
No society has ever been "tolerant", because society will fall apart if people's moral and religious beliefs are too various. Even in the modern West, while we don't believe in the monotheisms, we believe in Universalist liberalism. Disbelieving in liberalism in 2017 is like disbelieving in God in 1617. You will be discriminated against for having different beliefs.

This is all healthy. While I'm not a fan of liberalism, I would want my own beliefs imposed on others in the same way. Free speech is an illusion.

>>3156731
>when it was literally founded on conquest
Conquest, but not genocide. Once the local army and rulers were either destroyed/converted, that was pretty much the end of violence there. The average sand farmer in Syria, North Africa, or Spain wasn't affected all that much by the Islamic conquests.

>>3156731
Peace through superior firepower, of course.

>>3164495
Protestantism is objectively a much more honest form of Christianity when compared to the Catholicism

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>>3159209
Paul was a pretty cool dude though. Jesus was a reformer of Judaism, as were Peter and the rest of the apostles. Paul's vision was much broader, building upon the philosophy of Jesus (as I understand it) and making it more universally palatable. He came in to conflict on a few occasions with the other apostles on their treatment of gentiles. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Paul unironically did nothing wrong.

>>3162993
Oh the irony

>>3164734
>Protestantism is objectively a much more honest form of Christianity when compared to the Catholicism
Protestantism is Atheism 0.5 which then i'm not really surprised Liberals like it so much.

>>3162241
>No he wouldn't have run away and raised an army
Jesus only preached for three years, in that time the people hated Roman rule so they accepted Christianity. Muhammad preached for 23 and had control over a large peninsula of arabs. Muhammad's first 3 years were like Jesus', so if You're gonna compare Muhammad to Jesus compare the first 3 years of their preaching and you'll find Muhammad exactly like Jesus.
>>3164265
>so in islam men are still the providers
Islam is a realistic religion. It recognizes the biological differences between a man and a woman.

>>3162156
>islamism

Islamism is Islam you fucking melt.

>>3165705
phoneposting?

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>>3165712

Islamapologetic posting? Kill yourself.

>>3156774
>angel gabriel appears to muhammad
>no seriously he did trust me he told me to give you these rules
>rules are perfectly constructed to fit muhammad the warlord's agenda (breed prodigiously and harsh punishments for those who disobey)
>people still take it seriously
Really makes me think