If the SA had held onto power and Strasserist Nazism had emerged,

>>3152427

I dont think strasser had the same warmongering ideals that Hitler did, but I do think the war would have happened anyway from eventual aggression from Stalin.

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>>3152440
>ADOLF HITLER.
>WARMONGER.

?

>>3152427
Yes. The British Empire has had to destroy Germany as an economic and imperial competitor since the late 19th century.

>>3152427

Nazism was predicated on war, the "economic miracle" of Hitler was funded by massive loans they could not pay back and by the wholesale theft of wealth from "subhumans". Without a major war, Nazi Germany would have collapsed economically much as Weimar did.

>>3152427
Impossible to say

>>3152502
Deficit spending is how literally every single economy functions today dumbass. No country will ever pay off their debt

>>3152523

There's a difference between deficit spending and borrowing so much that you WILL bankrupt your country inside a decade.

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>>3152440

>>3152440
See>>3152463

>>3152534
Not Him, but what if they were going into debt because they knew a war would happen

>>3152562

>GERMANY DIDNU NUFFIN IT WAS ALL THE BRITISH

bullshit and you know it

>>3152502
>the "economic miracle" of Hitler was funded by massive loans they could not pay back
You forgot to mention the famous industriousness, work ethic and labour power of the German people.The Third Reich would have flourished economically without war, but the British Empire and City of London banks would never have allowed that to happen.

>>3152567
The British Empire was effectively bankrupt in 1870. They could never hope to compete with German labour and industry, so wars were fomented on the continent. I'm not saying it was all British machinations though - the 20th century, WW1+2 are a confluence of interests and events.

>>3152534
>bankrupting your country within a decade
Once again, I'm not sure you know anything about economics. ALL deficit spending is a long-term ponzi scheme. We can continue to borrow money to pay off old money for literally hundreds of years until we have AI performing free labor for us. However, at that point we probably would've reached a moneyless futuristic communist society, so none of this really even matters. Borrow all you want

>>3152563
Self fulfilling prophecy

>>3152452
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland
You might want to start there.

>>3152641
>greedy poles refusing to hand over rightful German land

They got precisely what they had coming to them.

>>3152641

IT WAS A RETALIATORY INVASION; LEARN REGARDING THE HISTORY OF WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED BEFORE POSTING.

>>3152656
That doesn't take away from the fact that it is warmongering.

It's the equivelent of the U.K. invading the east coast of the U.S.

>>3152660
>retaliatory invasion
Oh really?

>>3152660
>IT WAS A RETALIATORY INVASION


retaliation against what?

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>>3152662
>Oh really?

YES...

>>3152567
Cool strawman, buddy boy.

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>>3152669
Ok, then. What the fuck was he retaliating against?

>>3152666

SYSTEMATIC KILLING OF ETHNIC GERMANS LIVING IN "POLAND" —FORMER GERMAN LANDS— BY COMMUNIST TERROR UNITS, AND CONDONED BY THE POLISH GOVERNMENT, BESIDE THE POLISH GOVERNMENT'S REFUSAL TO COOPERATE WITH THE GERMAN GOVERNMENT DUE TO THE FORMER'S ENDORSEMENT BY GREAT BRITAIN, AND FRANCE.

>>3152681
>SYSTEMATIC KILLING OF ETHNIC GERMANS LIVING IN "POLAND"

literally never happened. Also hillarious considering you guys deny all the massacres of minority groups

>>3152683
>literally never happened.

I SEE THAT YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

YOU SHOULD JUST STOP POSTING.

>>3152681
neither of those make invading the country justified

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>>3152687

HOW IS DIRECT MILITARY INTERVENTION AGAINST INIQUITY NOT JUSTIFIABLE, ACCORDING TO YOU?

>>3152681
>COMMUNIST TERROR UNITS
>pre-war Poland
man what the fuck are you smoking? It was Hitler who made pact with the communists to erase Poland from the map.

fucking retarded neo nazi faggots ruining this board

>>3152693
1. These so-called "ethnic" germans were not German citizens
2. They lost the land fair and square during the first world war. So Germany had no claim to it.
3. Those commies were not part of the government, even if they were condoned, it was not state-sponsered killing, such as what the Nazi's did.
4. A government has no obligation to cooperate with a foreign government.

>>3152681
Do you have any sources for killings that happened before the invasion of Poland?

>>3152681
Ach nein remember der 500 gorrollion Deutschen volkes. Its annuda Dresden.

>>3152702
Who is a neo-nazi? Lets flush them out!

>>3152687
Reconquest is a perfectly justified reason for invasion.

We are getting off-topic here kids, OP's original question was "If the SA had held onto power and Strasserist Nazism had emerged, would WW2 have still happened?" Discuss!

>>3152713
yeah, if you're a warmongerer

>>3152706
It's mainstream history, retard. You can find it in less that five minutes if you search it. Don't try to use your own ignorance insinuate falsity on others.

>>3152720
>m-muh warmongering

Fuck off hippy

>>3152722
Or you could present your sources.

>>3152722
I did, and this is what I found.
https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=102439

>>3152727
i don't have anything against war-mongers

But that's what it is.

>>3152703
>1. These so-called "ethnic" germans were not German citizens

THEY WERE INNOCENT CIVILIAN PERSONS, AND GERMAN NATIONALS.

DO YOU HAVE A "POINT"?

>2. They lost the land fair and square during the first world war. So Germany had no claim to it.


GERMANY LOST ITS TERRITORY VIA UNFAIR PARTITION SPECIFICALLY INTENDED TO SOCIALLY, AND FINANCIALLY, CRIPPLE THE NATION.

>3. Those commies were not part of the government...

I DID NOT CLAIM THAT THEY WERE "PART OF THE GOVERNMENT"...

>... even if they were condoned, it was not state-sponsered killing...

HOW IS THAT ANY LESS WORSE, ACCORDING TO YOU?

>... such as what the Nazi's did.

TO WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING?

>4. A government has no obligation to cooperate with a foreign government.

NO, BUT IT HAS THE DUTY TO DO SO, IF ON COOPERATION DEPENDS THE AVOIDANCE OF WAR, AND UNNECESSARY SUFFERING.

>>3152744
state your sources larper

>>3152754

IS THAT ALL THAT YOU CAN REPLY?

>>3152744
>THEY WERE INNOCENT CIVILIAN PERSONS, AND GERMAN NATIONALS.
If a country starts mass-killings of it's own citizens that is there business, not Germany's

>GERMANY LOST ITS TERRITORY VIA UNFAIR PARTITION SPECIFICALLY INTENDED TO SOCIALLY, AND FINANCIALLY, CRIPPLE THE NATION.
Yeah, because they lost a fucking world war. Do you expect that the allies would just gave them something, since they lost a war?

>HOW IS THAT ANY LESS WORSE, ACCORDING TO YOU?
They're both bad. State-sponsered killing is objectively worse however.

>TO WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING?
State sponsered mass killings of Communists, Gypsies, Gays, Political dissidents, Mentally Ill, Jews, etc.

>NO, BUT IT HAS THE DUTY TO DO SO, IF ON COOPERATION DEPENDS THE AVOIDANCE OF WAR, AND UNNECESSARY SUFFERING.
No they don't.

>>3152754
You're on thin ice around here kid.

>>3152660
You literally believe this: >>3152681. It is most ironic that you incur in telling anyone to learn regarding history.

>>3152759
>write bunch of incoherent Nazi propaganda
>do you have a single fact to back that up?
>REEEE IS THAT ALL YOU CAN REPLY, HOW DARE YOU ASK ME TO PROVE MY RAMBLINGS
fuck off mexican nazi muslim or whatever you are

>>3152744
I wish Bomber Harris exterminated all Germans then we would have to deal with this shit today. This is proof that the Allies were too lenient on the Germans.

>>3152685

what systematic killing? You mean the german milita who fired on the polish army and got rekt? 3 days AFTER the nazis invaded?

fucking dumbass.

>>3152761
>>THEY WERE INNOCENT CIVILIAN PERSONS, AND GERMAN NATIONALS.
>If a country starts mass-killings of it's own citizens that is there business, not Germany's

IT IS THE DUTY OF ANY NOBLE PERSON, OR NATION, TO FIGHT INIQUITY WHEREVER IT CAN, AND WHEREVER IT OCCURS.

SOCIOPATHIC INDIFFERENCE IS WHAT ENABLES PSYCHOPATHS TO DO AS THEY LIKE.

IT IS RISIBLE THAT YOU ENDORSE THE CONDONING OF MASS KILLINGS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS BY CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE "CITIZENS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY", AND JUST FOR THE PETTY PURPOSE OF PROVING YOUR FLAWED ARGUMENT.

>>GERMANY LOST ITS TERRITORY VIA UNFAIR PARTITION SPECIFICALLY INTENDED TO SOCIALLY, AND FINANCIALLY, CRIPPLE THE NATION.
>Yeah, because they lost a fucking world war. Do you expect that the allies would just gave them something, since they lost a war?

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOSING A WAR, AND BEING HUMILIATED WHILST DEFEATED.

>>HOW IS THAT ANY LESS WORSE, ACCORDING TO YOU?
>They're both bad. State-sponsered killing is objectively worse however.

AND?

>>TO WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING?
>State sponsered mass killings of Communists, Gypsies, Gays, Political dissidents, Mentally Ill, Jews, etc.

I REITERATE: TO WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING?

>>NO, BUT IT HAS THE DUTY TO DO SO, IF ON COOPERATION DEPENDS THE AVOIDANCE OF WAR, AND UNNECESSARY SUFFERING.
>No they don't.

IF THEY DO NOT, THEN THEY ARE NOT ENTITLED TO COMPLAIN, PLAY THE VICTIM, OR FEIGN INNOCENCE, WHEN THEY GET JUSTLY INVADED

>>3152798
>a high level of discourse is expected.
>When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.

>>3152806

?

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>>3152798
>IT IS THE DUTY OF ANY NOBLE PERSON
Nazis weren't noble though, they were exactly what you said, a bunch of sociopaths, psychopaths, criminals and liars who broke every agreement they signed.

I love how you nazi larpers always project German atrocities onto others to play your victim card. It's been more than 70 years, your side lost. Grow up already. And fuck off with those caps, write like a sane person, you're just making a fool of yourself.

>THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOSING A WAR, AND BEING HUMILIATED WHILST DEFEATED

The Germans lost both world wars, but i have to notice that the Allies went too easy on them after WW1. Good thing this changed after they were defeated in WW2 :)

>>3152807
Still waiting on a credible source on that ethnic cleansing you referred to >>3152681

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>>3152814
>... they were exactly what you said, a bunch of sociopaths, psychopaths, criminals and liars who broke every agreement they signed.

YOU JUST DESCRIBED THE SOVIETS, AND I DO NOT THINK THAT YOUR POSTING OF SOVIET "SOLDIERS" ENGAGING IN ATTEMPTED RAPE, IS RANDOMLY COINCIDENTAL.

>... project... atrocities onto others to play your victim card.

THAT IS WHAT JEWS DO.

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>>3152832
The Soviets did their fair share of revenge after witnessing horrors of Nazi occupation in their country. I can't blame them really. What goes around comes around. Kinda ironic how the glorious dreams of Lebensraum ended up straight down the German woman's vagina :^)

And of course it's always the
>JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS
pathetic

>>3152839
Not him, but the only pathetic thing here are your posts.

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>>3152842
Sorry stormweenie but i'm not the one doing the nazi LARPing around here :))

Here's some master race for ya

>>3152832
You're shtick was more interesting without the antisemitism.

>>3152842
Also not him but it amazes me that a demonstrably ignorant and arrogant spic pseud has somehow mamaged to garner a fan club on here. He's as full of shit as an industrial piggery.

Even in this thread he's ignored posters that have him nailed down. If you really get him like when he gets called out after posting something completely fucktarded, he'll just ignore the thread completely, suspiciously similar to how Hitler described arguing with Jews in Mein Kampf.

>>3152814
Germans got mass-raped out of existence after WW2.

>>3152879
>fan club
It's him samefagging

>>3152879
Is there literally any credible evidence of Germans being attacked by Poles before Fall Weiss? I've seen this come up again and again, and yet I've never seen any evidence of this attributed to an actual historian.

>>3153011
There is not a single one. It's pure Nazi propaganda.
>BY COMMUNIST TERROR UNITS, AND CONDONED BY THE POLISH GOVERNMENT
This statement alone shows that this guy knows virtually nothing about Polish pre-war history.

Communist parties were illegal in Poland.
Bereza Kartuska prison was opened for all kinds of radicals, including communists.
KPP (Communist Party of Poland) was dissolved in 1938. Its leadership was largely liquidated during 1938 Stalinist purges.
And let's not forget about Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, which essentially stopped all anti-Nazi and anti-fascist agitation.

He doesn't even know that if some incidents indeed happened they were very likely the work of Polish far right groups such as ONR Falanga, and not some imagined communist terror units.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Radical_Camp_Falanga

>>3152579
That's why they forced Hitler to invade Poland? Bullshit

>>3153569
Sorry you don't understand economics and geopolitics bro.

>>3152832
>being this stormweenie

This sucks. I thought this thread was going to be an interesting discussion of the SA (of which Strasserism is something I've only just recently started reading about) and some interesting scenarios as a result.

Why do /pol/fags ruin fucking everything?

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>>3152660
No it wasn't. Learn the history of what is being discussed before shitting up the board again.

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>>3152452

>>3153580
Somehow the Brits forced the G*rmans to invade Poland even though the France and England said they would protect Poland. Oh I guess it's geopolitics and economics. Bullshit. Explain.

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>>3152579
I don't think I would hold up Nazi economic policy as anything other than an example of irresponsible government which almost brought Germany to its knees by 1938. Hjalmar Schacht, who predated the Nazis, was ultimately removed from office for resisting Nazi economic policy insanity. The annexations of Austria and Czechoslovakia were necessary to shore up the faltering Nazi economy.
Maybe you should read The Wages of Destruction before talking about something you clearly don't know anything about.

>>3153586
It's because they're a bunch of retarded larpers who are still prescribed homework from school

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>>3152681
>SYSTEMATIC KILLING OF ETHNIC GERMANS LIVING IN "POLAND"
Never happened

>FORMER GERMAN LANDS
Not anymore.

>BY COMMUNIST TERROR UNITS, AND CONDONED BY THE POLISH GOVERNMENT
Didn't happen. The Polish government and people were anti-communist.

I love how you stormfags go on and on about DE EBUL POLES and their alleged atrocities against German yet never give any solid proof.
Poles were historically treated like shit by the Nazis and the German Empire before them, so it's not like the Nazis have any moral high ground even if the claims of Polish atrocities are true.

>>3152563
But that's exactly what their plans was?

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>>3152744
>Unfair partition
UNFAIR
KEK

You're right. Germany should have been fucking sterilized and turned into a nature reserve after what they did to Europe during WW1.

>>3153569
>>3153597
You're strawmanning and misrepresenting what I said. Since you're being dishonest I don't feel the need to explain shit to you dude.

>>3152427
Who cares nerds lol

>>3152579
Weren't the banks dead broke back then, though?

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>It's another allcaps tripfag Aryan LARPer thread
Can someone ban this cunt already?

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>>3152798
>IT IS THE DUTY OF ANY NOBLE PERSON, OR NATION, TO FIGHT INIQUITY WHEREVER IT CAN, AND WHEREVER IT OCCURS.
Inequity was a prominent feature of the Third Reich

>SOCIOPATHIC INDIFFERENCE IS WHAT ENABLES PSYCHOPATHS TO DO AS THEY LIKE.
Yeah, that sounds like the Third Reich to me.

>IT IS RISIBLE THAT YOU ENDORSE THE CONDONING OF MASS KILLINGS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS BY CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE "CITIZENS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY", AND JUST FOR THE PETTY PURPOSE OF PROVING YOUR FLAWED ARGUMENT.
I'd like to see you justify to me the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent Polish people in Operation Tannenberg, Intelligenzaktion, Palmiry massacre, AB-Aktion, and others. I'd like to see you justify the destruction of Warsaw, I'd like to see you justify the killing of Maximilian Kolbe, I'd like to see you justify the Ghettos, the Dirlewanger Brigade, and the Death Camps.

All these anti-German hatred. I don't agree with Hitler, but a strong, German-led Europe would have ensured stability in Europe. Britain and France were too much positioned in the West, while Russia would have turned Europe into its 'Western Eurasia' puppets. Germany's (and Poland too) position in the center means that a stable Europe is of geopolitics goal for them, a Europe that can at least withstand the USA or Russia.

>>3153654
>a Europe that can at least withstand the USA
Oh yes, the huge threat to Europe that was interwar America

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>>3152832
>YOU JUST DESCRIBED THE SOVIETS, AND I DO NOT THINK THAT YOUR POSTING OF SOVIET "SOLDIERS" ENGAGING IN ATTEMPTED RAPE, IS RANDOMLY COINCIDENTAL.
"B-b-but da Soviets"

>THAT IS WHAT JEWS DO.
DE JEWZ

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>>3152842
Go and complain about the Jews somewhere else bud

>>3153654
>I don't agree with Hitler
Sure you don't

>>3153651
>I'd like to see you justify to me the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent Polish people in Operation Tannenberg, Intelligenzaktion, Palmiry massacre, AB-Aktion, and others. I'd like to see you justify the destruction of Warsaw, I'd like to see you justify the killing of Maximilian Kolbe, I'd like to see you justify the Ghettos, the Dirlewanger Brigade, and the Death Camps.

Its called war. People die in horrible ways. Shooting civilians is somehow worse than firebombing them, atleast if you win the war it is.

>>3153634
Dunno dude. Though there were plenty of banks in London and New York with enough credit to partially bankroll the Third Reich. You should check out Stanford prof and Hoover Institute research fellow Anthony Sutton's "Wall St and the Rise of Hitler" for more information if you are interested in a scholarly treatment of the subject.

>>3153672
>Its called war. People die in horrible ways.
"War" is not a justification.

>>3153658
America has poisoned Europe with its consumerism and toxic policies.

>>3153684
Blame it on the Yanks when you can't blame the Jews

>>3153654
True. The Atlantic powers never would have let that happen though. The British Empire had maintained its power in the world by playing "balance of power" politics in continental Eurasia. In the 20th century Germany and Russia were set against each other to weaken both.

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>>3153684
Care to qualify that retarded statement?

>>3152722
>neo-nazi atrocity fantasies are mainstream history
wew lad, next you'll try to tell us that Bloody Sunday happened before the invasion

>>3153658
>I can't into geopolitics
Stop talking already. You're pretty embarrassing already. You're like those political historians who can only dig up archives but are too stupid to come up with anything useful from them.

>>3153684
>>3153693
The occupying powers, including the US, turned Germany into something of a social laboratory at the end of WW2 - replacing German culture and heritage with American consumer mass-culture, destroying the peoples national pride while maintaining their exceptional work ethic etc. All this required a massive effort of social engineering and PSYOPs against the civilian population.

>>3153709
How was America, an isolationist democracy that refused to even partake in the League it established, a threat that needed to be countered by Europe?
>>3153724
OK, so what does that have to do with the run up to WW2, which is the question being asked. Because this "strong, German-led Europe" can't exist within the timeline of WW2

>>3153728
>OK, so what does that have to do with the run up to WW2, which is the question being asked
I can't tell if there is a question in what you just wrote dude. Can you write more clearly?

>>3153736
>I don't agree with Hitler, but a strong, German-led Europe would have ensured stability in Europe
This is what I originally responded to, I don't see what the post-war has to do with it

>>3153680
Yes it is. Millions of civilians were killed, by both sides, ON PURPOSE. Nobody cares about the civilian japanese or germans because they lost the war.

>>3153690
Jews control America, this is almost a fact.

>>3153693
Europe has adopted american consumerism, culture and toxic policies such as multiculture, feminism and whatever. Go to any major west european and they all look alike with their american brands. Germans were indoctrinated by the americans after the war.

>>3153913
Serious question
Have you ever been to fucking Germany itself or do you just watch sensationalist youtube videos

>>3154650
The people that post this shit never have.

>>3154650
But what about Islam taking over Germany or the fact that they are banning pork and also banning Oktoberfest in order not to offend the Muslims. Germany will become Germanistan by 2030 or even sooner!

>>3154650
Im half german, go there every year and he s not wrong

>>3152681
So instead of bringing those people into the fold, therefore bringing in more laborers and also bringing in more people to participate in your economy, you invade another another country and start oppressing the Main population and spark off a global war?

In case it goes over your head, thats fucking retarded

>>3154650
I can confirm what he's saying.
t. East German

>>3152427
I think that Strasser would've been worse for the world as his version of National Socialism and Stalin's Socialism in One Country would be compatible. Strasser was also less expansionist than Hitler and didn't call Slavs subhuman. The resulting Moscow-Berlin Axis would be able to steamroll any coalition of nations.