>According to this "central mystery" of most Christian

christian theology is extremely convoluted

>>3145128
>1438
>beliving in (((trinity)))
Joke aside, not everything has to be clearly understandable in religion

>religion cosmology hinges on "mysteries"
gee that sure won't backfire by attracting and fostering delusional and irrational followers

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>>3145128
Nice bait thread anon.

But wouldn't you expect the nature of a being beyond human comprehension to be extremely confusing? You should change your commentary on it to >tfw too dumb to get it

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>>3145175

You could have just said "yes", it would have been easier.

>>3145190
Why would an incomprehensible, divine being, conform to human understanding?

Seriously, your whole post is "I don't get it, so it must be retarded." You probably don't get most philosophy, but would you call it retarded? It's basically your superiority complex refusing to admit that there are things beyond your understanding, so you say that they are dumb.

>>3145222
>>3145175
trinity is contradictory and human made doctrine set forth in a purely discursive rational format. tawhid is a divine mystery, trinity is convoluted theology

>>3145128
>>3145190
Hey (((You))), if you want to insult christians it's your problem but don't LARP as a muslim while doing that

>>3145222
>>Why would an incomprehensible, divine being, conform to human understanding?
>devoting your life to this arbitrary hypothetical concept
>being force to resort to misinterpreting criticism of your beliefs as lack of understanding, as a defense mechanism to justify your irrational devotion

THAT's the retarded part.

>>3145128
Get this Islamic shit off here. Islam is pedophilia and terrorism! Fuck Islam nuke Mecca now!

>>3145256
actually islam is good, you should become muslim

>>3145254
>devoting your life to an arbitrary hypothetical concept
This is literally what everyone does. It's a core aspect of ideology.

Christianity has a sharp distinction from clergy, monastics, and laity. Laity aren't supposed to read the bible at the same level as the clergy or the monastics, or dwell on the mysteries of God past faith in it.

At least Islam and Judaism are actually monotheistic.

>>3145262
islam is not an ideology. tawhid, the basis of islam, is metaphysical not ideological

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>>3145256
Not to defend OP but shut up and go the fuck back to your shitty subreddit.

>>3145281
Metaphysical views are ideological.

>>3145289
wrong

>>3145294
An ideology is a system of ideas about the nature of the world. Metaphysical views fall under that.

>>3145300
nope, true metaphysics is not systematic. nice try pleb

>>3145305
How do you arrive at metaphysical conclusions then?

>>3145300
>An ideology is a system of ideas about the nature of the world
Too broad.

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>>3145311
pure intellectual intuition conducted by qualified persons

>>3145322
>Guenon
Okay, so you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, firstly.

Secondly, how can you trust your intuition, and how do you determine who is qualified?

>>3145334
>dosn't know what intuition is
>thinks i mean gut instinct or some shit
read some books pleb, true metaphysics is incommunicable and ineffable

>>3145343
How do you determine who is qualified, faggot

The way you talk about it, it just sounds like made up bullshit.

>>3145343
its also not valid

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>>3145350
>>3145355
>>3145350
if i were to answer your questions it would only cause your plebeian more distress and confusion. save yourself the trouble, and get educated on the topic the proper way

>>3145364
plebeian mind*

>>3145364
>I'm too retarded to explain
Enjoy your (you), dumbass.

The Kalām argument proves a monolithic God not a trinity


Christians btfo

>>3145364
concession accepted

thus the fragility of irrational beliefs

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>>3145374
anon, you are entering a cycle of pain and suffering...dont do this to yourself. there is a way out. islam is the answer

>>3145383
I'm already quite happy as an Orthodox Christian, anon.

I'm sure Islam isn't nearly as retarded as you make it sound, though.

>>3145128
Implying all Christianity is Catholicism. I agree with you that catholics are retarded.

>scientists fine with mathmatical conjectures and quantum states having indeterminant truth values, neither true or false, as described by Bas van Fraassen and others
>scientists make a big stink about having paraconsistent logics where something can be true and false at the same time.
Or how about Marx and Hegel seemingly embracing naked contradictions under dialectical materialism?

>>3145390
>belongs to an orthodox tradition
>doesn't believe in true metaphysical/intellectual intuition
spitting on gregory palamas' grave my man

>>3145408
Orthodox Christian metaphysics comes from divine revelation in the form of God telling the Apostles what is true, and that tradition being passed down throughout the ages.

It's not based on human intuition at all.

>>3145417
>knows nothing about his own tradition
lmao do you even into macarius

>>3145403
>deliberate system of inquiry to determine verifiable models about reality
oh wait no i forgot just pray and hope got sends you a "paraconsistent" fever dream to anthropomorphize and then worship lol

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>>3145417
also
>human intuition
>human
>HUMAN
>not supra-human
forget what i said about islam, you gotta start by actually embracing orthodox christianity first, pick up some dionysius nigga

>>3145430
>quoting things never said
It's divine, Holy tradition revealed through direct revelation from God Himself.

>>3145438
you stated that the intuition i referred to earlier was human, revealing your ignorance on the topic, a topic which equally pertains to your own tradition which you are evidently ignorant about

>>3145450
>use words in ways that they don't mean
>get mad that people don't know what you're talking about
Explain intuition then.

where's the defender of the faith when you need him?

>>3145457
considering how confused you already are the few remarks ive made, im just gonna restate my last suggestion―start by getting educated on orthodox christianity. it will be a very valuable experience for you

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>>3145460

*blocks your path*

>>3145471
I've read multiple theological works on Eastern Orthodoxy, and was baptized after taking a catechetical class.

I've read the Orthodox Way by Met. Bishop Kallistos Ware, and currently own Seminary textbooks.

If I'm not understanding what you're talking about, it's because you haven't explained what you're talking about. It sounds most likely like you're using terms in a way that the Perrennialists only used them, not one that most Orthodox people would be familiar with.

>>3145488
>I've read multiple theological works on Eastern Orthodoxy, and was baptized after taking a catechetical class.
>I've read the Orthodox Way by Met. Bishop Kallistos Ware, and currently own Seminary textbooks.
sounds pretty entry level

>>3145294
>wrong
Strong arguments today.

>>3145503
Are you talking about the intuition that comes with being in-tune with the Holy Spirit, anon? Because that's something that you actually do have ways of determining if someone is under the power of, like in the case of St Seraphim of Sarov. But, even then, such instances are very rare, so it's not like all of our metaphysical views come from that, and they managed to get in-tune largely by studying the traditional metaphysical views of the Church passed down from the time of the Apostles.

>>3145513
rational arguments are sinful
only pure intuition and faith in the trinity is beloved of the god

Cont. paraconsistency:
1)Contradictions are problematic if, and only if, T and F are assignable to all propositions. Call this problem the infection problem.
2) The accessibility relations in modal logic do not allow infection as described in (1) if a constraint is added that only allows double assignment of T and F valuations when the language referring to meta level entities such as the language itself or God. Statements like Noumenon, Liar's Paradox's and a set of three beings that are at the same time one being (Trinity) are semantically distinct from statements like water is wet, there are three cars, and the sky is blue.
3) The mystery of the Trinity is that it is false that HS, G, and J are identical but it is also true that they are identical as the power of any of these entities means they necessarily exist beyond linguistic description and there is no accessibility of valuations about G, HS, and J that applies to ordinary language.
4) It is not irrational to believe that the sky cannot possibly be both blue and green at the same time while also believing that G, HS, and J are and are not one and the same.

It's just that easy guys.

>>3145521
Anon, if you don't use rationale as well as intuition to determine who to trust, then you run the risk of being deceived by demons.

>>3145538
are you implying that god isn't powerful enough to prevent demons from perverting his pure emanations

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>>3145475
*rejects you annulment*

>>3145557
No, I'm saying that we humans are fallible, and can misidentify demons as angelic forces. The Fathers advise you to ask those claiming to be gifted by God with revelation from the Holy Spirit to go before Church authorities, to perform miracles, and to pray the Lord's Prayer, and to ask any angelic apparitions to pray the Lord's prayer (because demons cannot do this).

If you believe in God, it is nothing to believe in him because it is logical, compared to believing in him because you love him .

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Based Napoleon said it best

>Religions are all founded on miracles — on things we cannot understand, such as the Trinity. Jesus calls himself the Son of God, and yet is descended from David. I prefer the religion of Mahomet — it is less ridiculous than ours.

>>3145574
So according to you, God is ALMOST-omnipotent, capable of almost-all things, with the exception that God's ability to communicate with humans is at the mercy of Demon who are able to masquerade as his true messengers.

Conveniently, your church authorities have determined the principles that God really want (presumably which was transmitted to them by non-demons).

That seems faulty to me, being paranoid of demons all the time.

>>3145128
>Moreover, they call us Hetaeriasts, or Associators, because, they say, we introduce an associate with God by declaring Christ to the Son of God and God. We say to them in rejoinder: ‘The Prophets and the Scriptures have delivered this to us, and you, as you persistently maintain, accept the Prophets. So, if we wrongly declare Christ to be the Son of God, it is they who taught this and handed it on to us.’ But some of them say that it is by misinterpretation that we have represented the Prophets as saying such things, while others say that the Hebrews hated us and deceived us by writing in the name of the Prophets so that we might be lost. And again we say to them: ‘As long as you say that Christ is the Word of God and Spirit, why do you accuse us of being Hetaeriasts? For the word, and the spirit, is inseparable from that in which it naturally has existence. Therefore, if the Word of God is in God, then it is obvious that He is God. If, however, He is outside of God, then, according to you, God is without word and without spirit. Consequently, by avoiding the introduction of an associate with God you have mutilated Him. It would be far better for you to say that He has an associate than to mutilate Him, as if you were dealing with a stone or a piece of wood or some other inanimate object. Thus, you speak untruly when you call us Hetaeriasts; we retort by calling you Mutilators of God.’
St. John of Damascus;

>>3145393
>Implying all Christianity is Catholicism. I agree with you that catholics are retarded.
What does that have to do with anything?
Everyone except JW and some pentecostals believes in the Trinity, as formulated such.

>>3145606
No, God is totally omnipotent, it is humans who are not omnipotent, and, most importantly, who lack the Holy Spirit. Because we lack God's spirit, we often do not understand what it is God wants of us: you yourself said that intuition should only be trusted from "qualified sources". This implies that there are unqualified sources, such as false teachers (e.g. Arius).

Yes, there is intuition involved, but the intuition derives from one's knowledge and practice of the Holy Mysteries, and in the wisdom of the Apostles and their successors.

>>3145631
thankfully the fathers crafted miraculous magic rituals that we can conduct to protect ourselves from ghosts and demons

>>3145590
Based

>>3145639
Then there is still the threat of false teachers, who many have been deceived by; for that, we must rely upon the Holy Spirit to manifest itself through the Church, passing down divine truth from the time of the Apostles. Simply put: if a doctrine is contrary to that given to the Apostles by Christ, then it is a lie, and the Holy Spirit will protect the Church from this lie, for the gates of Hell cannot prevail against the Church.

>>3145590
What, why would Napoleon say that? I had to look it up, and it's actually real.

Fucking heretic. No wonder based Britain put him in his place.

>>3145128
I've read the bible, but I'm not a full practising Christian.
I believe that God is One, the "Holy Spirit" is the personification of God's power, and Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Messenger of God, and God acts through him.
All of Jesus' miracles were really done by God, through Jesus.

>>3145677

Arianism is the best choice well done

>>3145689
you should repent right now

>>3145677
welcome to Islam, masha'Allah brother

>>3145689
If Arianism is true, then Christ was lying, and therefore Arius' doctrine is false. For Christ proclaimed that the Church would never fall to false doctrine, and the Church condemned Arius.

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>>3145700
>people actually buy into this kind of sophistry

>>3145700
>the new testament is reliable

>>3145665
so the apostles were the original archmages?
are you saying that the omnipotent god needed human assistance to overthrow the demons who ruled the earth?

seems like a suspicious turn of events, that the archmages created mantras and tantric jujus to determine the nature of the holy magysterium, since it's indistinguishable from demon magic otherwise. what if they took the demon's power for themselves to enslave the world in turn? since we only have the word of the archmages to go on, it seems plausible that there was never any god to begin with

>>3145700
>constantine was arian
>literally whole christian world was arian
>until a bunch of butthurt monks made up bullshit about trinity and retconned shit about jesus
>hurr durr arianism is wrong

kys

>>3145700
kek what kind of an argument is that

>>3145713
There is no existing Arian Church from ancient times, even if what you said was true, then that just makes the whole of Christianity false.

Also, no bishop was an Arian.

>>3145711
And your alternative is to blindly trust whoever claims to come in the name of the Lord?

>>3145718
Simple, if Arianism was true, why would God allow it to die out?

>>3145718
typical christian sophistry

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>>3145739
>theological darwinism

>>3145739
>what is islam

>>3145737
>Also, no bishop was an Arian.
Nigga, what?
Of course there were.
If there was no bishop who believed this stuff, the entire movement could just be excommunicated as laymans.
Besides, here is a pretty famous arian bishop
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulfilas

>>3145746
Theological Darwinism makes sense in a religion in which the God/prophet (depending on your take) says that the gates of Hell will never prevail against the true doctrine.

The alternative is to say that the gates of Hell won.

>>3145739
Similarly, if Jesus was the messiah, son of god, etc etc why would God (ie Jesus himself) allow him to die?

Check mate

>>3145739
so every religion that exists today is true?

>>3145747
Islam isn't Arianism. The Arians believed that Christ was the supreme created being.

>>3145759
Because it was necessary to ransom humanity.

Even Arians believe this.

>>3145762
And the muslims attribute to Jesus greater things than they attribute to Mohammad, including a virgin birth, calling him the Word of God, and the messiah.

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>>3145700

This is why you're losing followers in the west.

>>3145766
>Because it was necessary to ransom humanity.
this is fanfiction tier

>>3145773
Again, if you think that's wrong, then you are just agreeing with me that Arius was wrong. Arius did believe that Christ was the Messiah.

>>3145737
>And your alternative is to blindly trust whoever claims to come in the name of the Lord?
no no, i totally get it, a cabal of ancient wizards determined the correct spells and incantations to defeat demons, i'm with you there
i'm saying where did the wizards get their power? sure they CLAIM that it's from the fourth dimensional but how can you verify since they hold exclusive access to non-demontainted gnosis from beyond time and space?
kinda shady

>>3145778
have you lost all semblance of a working rational faculty?

>>3145773
It's the heart of Christianity.

You're free to disbelieve it, and then you're stuck with the consequences of your unbelief. You're not free to disregard those.

>>3145787
Arians believe that Christ was the Messiah and that his death and resurrection ransomed humanity from sin, anon.

>>3145803
aaaaand so?

>>3145811
The argument is about whether Arianism is correct. If you think that it's correct, I don't get why you're arguing against it.

>>3145128
>Water, water vapor, Ice.

You're retarded.

>>3145814
im arguing against christianity in all its forms

>>3145759
>gets into a debate on theology
>doesn't know anything about theology

>>3145840
>god is molecular bonds
i thought we was the singularity outside the universe
why can't you guys make up your minds

>>3145843
My bad, I thought you were this anon >>3145689

>>3145840
>modalism

>>3145850
I am showing you how something can be the 'same', but still 'different.'

Those three: water, vapor, ice are all H2O. However, we all agree that these are 'different'. I tried to make it a simple analogy for your pea brain, I see now you're just being contrarian.

>now I see you're just trolling
>not good at it
>bye bye

>>3145849
I don't need to know anything about theology, because theology is just convolution upon convolution.

I literally don't understand why an omnipotent God

1) Suddenly decided to change the rules of the game (ie old testament)
2) Considering Jesus is supposedly the son of god, how is he a descendant of David as messiah is supposed to be?
3) If he's son of god, and god on earth himself, why did he, an omnipotent being, let himself be killed?
4) Why need to do the whole bullshit story with Jesus "just to forgive humans" when he could literally do that without Jesus?

In any case, no Christian was able to refute these points, which were raised by Jews thousands of years ago. Vid related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW-NKGXFGg

>>3145869
>attempting to logically explain a "divine mystery"
coaxed into a snaffu once again

>>3145803
They also believe Jesus did not exist prior to his birth, just as you did not exist prior to your birth.

In other words, they deny that Jesus came down from heaven in the flesh.

1 John 4
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

John was preaching to the devil worshiping gnostics of his day, who also denied God came down from heaven in the flesh.

>>3145874
I am not going to give you a theology lesson, because like you said you don't care. So why are you here arguing?

>>3145884
I didn't say I don't care. I said i didn't understand. Big difference

You should work on that reading comprehension.

>>3145874
>1) Suddenly decided to change the rules of the game (ie old testament)
Old Covenant was given to man to show man that he needed God's grace and mercy. No man ever followed the Law, and no man ever deserved the blessings under the Old Covenant. Blessings that were all about the flesh, and not about a relationship with the living God, or the afterlife.

>2) Considering Jesus is supposedly the son of god, how is he a descendant of David as messiah is supposed to be?
Because both of his parents are related to David: Joseph through Solomon and Mary through Nathan.

>3) If he's son of god, and god on earth himself, why did he, an omnipotent being, let himself be killed?
He did not let himself be killed; he was not killed at all. He had the power to lay down his life, and he had the power to pick it back up again. Nobody killed Jesus; He came down to die, and died of his own free will, following the Father's will.

>4) Why need to do the whole bullshit story with Jesus "just to forgive humans" when he could literally do that without Jesus?
Because forgiveness has a price, and without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

I don't know what Christians you were talking to, but seriously, these are 5th grade questions.

>>3145877
I blatantly state you're trolling in my post.
I just wanted to point out how pea brained you are.

>>3145869
"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other."

If you worship both the Father and the Son, that's idolatry. Jesus was the Messiah and died for our sins, he is both the Son of Man and Son of God. Before anything there was God, indivisible and eternal, nothing else. The Son came later.

Trinitarian Christianity is basically polytheism.

>>3145897
Are you the one who's never heard of a triple point, or is that the other guy?

>>3145897
>continues to lash out with insults after being tricked into violating the core tenants of his own belief
Derriere discomfited

>>3145887
> I don't need to know anything about theology

>But please explain theology to me because I don't understand

You're a literal moron.

>>3145874
Not that anon, but this has been addressed for a long time:

1) The Old Testament prophets and the choosing of the Jews was for the purpose that they could bear the Messiah who would save all of mankind
2) He's a descendant by marriage, but not by blood, IIRC.
3) a) to demonstrate that He can rise from the dead, b) to go down to Sheol and destroy it
4) This is a bit of a Western Christianity thing; God isn't punishing humanity with Hell, humanity is being punished by itself because it refused to attune itself to God's nature through belief in Him.

Of course, this is an Orthodox perspective, other people might have others.

>>3145907
I know what a triple point is. Again boosting my analogy..

>>3145920
Must be the other guy then.

>>3145895
>and Mary through Nathan.

Thanks for correcting me, I'm >>3145918
I couldn't remember if he was descended on Mary's side too or not.

>>3145918
I am done with that anon. Clearly just trolling. They don't WANT to understand.

>>3145927
Aye, Luke traces Jesus all the way back to Adam.

>>3145909
What? I came to explain in simple terms how GOD, can be the Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Pretty sure verbal insults are not violating the CORE belief of Christianity.

But, I guess I should take advice on theology from the person who admittedly does not understand theology.

Tell me more!

>>3145927
I agree with what you said under 4, but the question was why didn't God just forgive everyone.

In Islam, allah just forgives whoever he wants, and doesn't forgive whoever he wants. It's arbitrary and capricious.

God being holy, just and righteous cannot function like the devil. So Jesus satisfied God's holiness, justice and righteousness by personally taking all of our sins upon Himself, suffering the wrath of God on each and every sin, and then dying, paying the ultimate punishment for the sins of humanity.

Forgiveness costs. It cost God His only begotten Son. But in that sacrifice, accepted we know by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, God now in His mercy and grace can offer mankind the free gift of his salvation to all who believe.

>>3145949
>It cost God His only begotten Son.
wait so is jesus the same as trinity god or not
if god is infinite why does he care about a mortal host body

>>3145957
Would you care to be tortured to death?

>>3145957
And what do you care about your mortal host body, since you will receive an eternal body when you die?

>>3145939
it's either a divine mystery or a logically comprehensible model
if its a divine mystery why are you trying to explain how it makes sense
if it's a logical model why can't you actually explain it with an analogy
so which is it waterboy?

>>3145967
>>3145972
does the almighty god share humans' fear of pain and death
are christians skitzophrenic or just really shitty sophists?

>>3145986
>makes an analogy to help anon, who asked someone to explain, understand
>not an exact explanation
>anon says why are you trying to explain?!?!???

It is a divine mystery you mouth breather, but we as humans TRY to understand. We cannot fully understand though.

>>3145986
Divine mysteries are revealed in the bible; just because they say they are mysteries does not mean they will remain mysteries forever. As an example, Paul revealed the mystery that salvation was always going to be for the Jew first, and then for the Gentile. Up to Paul, the Jews thought only they could be saved; in fact, Jesus' disciples were turning gentile converts into Jews first, and then into Christians.

You can apprehend that something is beyond your capacity to understand, without comprehending what that thing is. In this case, it is the triune nature of God. How God chose to manifest Himself, One God, as Father Son and Holy Spirit so that we might get to know Him a little better. And then decide if we want to know Him a lot better, or not at all.

An earthly analogy to the Trinity is always going to fail because God is an eternal spirit being.

Father is God.
Son is God.
Spirit is God.
There is One God.

That's enough for you to apprehend what we're talking about.

>>3146002
it's more plausible that it's some arbitrary illogical statement that has no bearing on anything
it was cooked up solely to justify monotheist label while retaining the ancient polytheistic roots
my point is you insist it's a valuable and important tenant of your insane religion and how dare anyone point it out
you hide it behind the category of "theology" to deflect from how retarded it it
that's why you use insults out of frustration, lol

>>3145993
Yes, and all of it. Every single bit of it. Look, this is beef jerky stuff you're trying to eat and you're not even born again and sucking milk from the teat of the scripture.

All of your sins were piled onto Jesus on the cross. All of them. He lived them all, paid for them all, and died for them all.

The night before, knowing what He was looking at the next day, Jesus prayed and sweat blood He was so stressed about the cross. The physical would be enough. But the spiritual?

God suffered on that cross more than mankind has suffered, total, collectively, of all time.

>>3146018
He's actually been remarkably patient with you; far more than you deserve.

>>3146018
Okay dude.

>>3146028
lol what a christlike martyr, such a saint, posting water analogies in service of the lord's gospel

>>3146102
>why ar Christians do stupid that they think 1 thing can be 3 things at the same time
>stupid christians explain this stupid theology concept to me
>wow Christians are literal retards

>ever heard of water? It can have 3 stemayes at once, or be 3 different states, but all still H2O

>wow Christian anon that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard
>but why can't anyone explain theology to me, I can't understand?!?? How can 1 thing be 3 at once??

You're either a moron, or a troll who does not care to understand.

Also see >>3145895

>>3146130
H2O's 3 states: liquid water, solid ice, or the gas-water vapor.

>>3145128
>the anime mudslime is at it again
Why have you not killed yourself yet?

>>3145242
muh 3 leaf clover nigga

>>3145271
you say that like it's a good thing

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>>3145128
And this is why Unitarianism is the true path. Everything else is pagan hybrid trash.

>>3146025
You're insane.

>>3145949
>In Islam, allah just forgives whoever he wants, and doesn't forgive whoever he wants. It's arbitrary and capricious.

wrong

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>>3145222
>incomprehensible, divine being beyond human understanding
>"lol, I'm three people but also not"

>>3145222
>Why would an incomprehensible, divine being, conform to human understanding?

excatly, dumbfuck. trinity is limited human understanding trying to make shit up about the incomprehensible

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>Christianity
>Jesus is crucified to act as a final sacrifice in order to cleanse man of sin

>Islam
>Jesus is not crucified, and instead Judas was, because noble sacrifice is stupid

Christianity is like a Dostoevsky novel, and Islam is like a 1990s Action movie

Ha ha yeah Islam is way better, just ignore all the shit Muhammad and his companions made up about Abraham and Ishmael, it doesn't really matter in the long run anyways if he was obviously making shit up lmao

>>3147251
>christianity
>jesus is a sacrifice
>despite human sacrifices being illegal

did God forget his own rules in the torah?

>>3147251
Not OP, therefore not a faggot, however
No soul bears the sins of another

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>>3147251
The Quran says that no man can carry the sins of another, islam proclam individual responsqbility that's all.
Nothing is said about Judas btw

>>3147270
It was like a self sacrifice.
>>3147273
He redeemed the selfish nature of man, as epitomized in the story of Adam. In the story, Adam acts selfishly, and Christ undoes that with his selfless action.
Adam's sins are representative of the sins of Early man who moved out of nature in search of wanton desire.

Adam literally means man, and his punishment for his sin was to toil in the fields for his food. This is analogous to man's move from hunter-gatherer, natural, behavior to artificial, agricultural, behavior. Man's knowledge caused him suffering

>>3147273
>>3147278
actually, it's not only islam

in judaism, you aren't responsible for sins of other people. which is right, because should a son be responsible for the sins of his father? of course not

but jesus for some weird reason shits on this prohibition.

>>3145128
The power of /his/.

>>3147273
>>3147278
Christ is God, and it was God's will to forgive man with a final sacrifice.
It doesn't matter what the Quran says, because it's something made up by a conquest happy camel-merchant

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>>3147299
Even if you are not muslim it matter in this context because i'm expaining islam to you and i'm correcting your unfair misrepresentation.

>>3147288
Anon, I must disagree. Is a son responsible for the sins of his alcoholic father? Are babies who are not baptized suppose to go to hell?
I respect the Christian faith however these things are problematic.

>>3147292
Agreed
>>3147299
And Christianity was founded by a reformist Jewish hippie, not an insult, just a simplification

>>3147317
Christ's sacrifice was his way of forgiving man for his sins. That man is no longer to be shamed for going against his natural order. It was like God accepting our nature and ability to find our own way, to make our own laws, and to use our ill-gotten knowledge to know His creation for ourselves

>God is omnipotent.
>The omnipotent God somehow can't be three persons in one, or four persons in 1/2 , or a million persons in 3.14, or whatever God wants to be (which in this case happens to be three persons in one).

Who is the REAL blasphemous heretic here?
It's God asshole, He doesn't have to explain shit.

>>3145190
Gotta admit waifuism is a good way to get losers with nothing to lose to join your religion. Great source of suicide bombers.