How much social mobility was there in medieval Europe, and how

>>3124184
Some, but not a lot. Peasants would occasionally marry people from low-level nobility (knightly class), but never something like a prince or duke. Commoners in the cities could acquire wealth/status through economic means, but this is more of a high/late medieval development than an early medieval one. Opportunities to save and invest generally got better through the years.

>>3124200
Thanks. Are there any good books about city life in medieval times?

There was as much social mobility as there is currently. Source: The Son Also Rises

>>3124184
Really depends on the place, and the time, the medieval is a 1000 years and Europe is cultural pretty diverse.
Also, social mobility worked a lot different than it does today. Please keep in mind that medieval society and mindset was radically different.

A medieval city had something like a caste system in place. The biggest divide in a city was between honest folks and dishonest ones. The status of honest/dishonest was inherited from the parents but also could be lost/gained due to own actions.

As a honest man you could learn a honest trade, become a master smith or carpenter or mason or merchant or whatever. You can vote and are eligible to fight in the towns militia You could become rich, make a political career, become councilman or lead an army into battle. Also, your word counts for something, be it in trade or court.
As a dishonest man you can learn no honest trade, you get flayer, undertaker, treadmill guy, sewage shoveler or dog catcher. You sure as hell can't vote and you live in the designated ghetto, also, you are not allowed to visit public places reserved for honest people, and no honest person will accept you under their roof save for emptying the latrine.

Now there is examples of simple smiths or millers that turned their families into dynasties that became filthy rich and powerful.
On the other hand you had to pull some serious hero business to make it back from dishonest to honest.

>>3124292
I got half a dozen books here about everyday medieval city living, unfortunately most of them are in German.

>>3124184

In those days, social mobility was achieved almost entirely by "marrying up." You have to somehow convince/trick/seduce a person of higher birth into marrying you, as task frustrated by the fact that most marriages tended to be pre-arranged by the parents.

>>3124292

>Are there any good books about city life in medieval times?

https://www.amazon.com/Life-Medieval-City-Frances-Gies/dp/0062415182/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500750427&sr=8-1&keywords=life+in+a+medieval+city

>>3124396
>In those days, social mobility was achieved almost entirely by "marrying up."
Simply not true for the medieval cities. They had some meritocracy in place.

>>3124200
>Peasants
are not Burgers friend.

>>3124200
I think the idea of marrying into the knightly class could better be described as taken or raped into the knightly class, then again, it's a possibility, a source would be stellar anon =]

>>3124184
Social mobility never existed and still doesn't exist, it's a spook.

>>3124471
William the Conquerer's (a.k.a. the Bastard) mom was a tanners daughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herleva

Also, social mobility and personal freedom was much higher in the Cities, thats why they kept citizenship as a high privilege.

>>3124371

I was about to disagree with you but then I realize social mobility in modern times is shit too.

Interesting thread.

>>3126050
then contribute something faggot

>>3124184
If you're a serf and made it into the city and stayed there for a year, you could be freed from serfdom.

Stadtluft macht frei

>>3126078
People didn't give a shit if you were a faggot in medieval times.

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>>3126115
Except sodomites got burned alive for sins against nature, faggot.

>Straff der vnkeusch, so wider die natur beschicht
>Item so eyn mensch mit eymem vihe,mannmit mann,weibmit weib,vnkeusch treiben,die haben auch das leben verwürckt,vmd man sollsie der gemeymen gewomheyt mach mit dem fewer vom leben zum todt richten.

Didn't it depend a lot where you were?

I imagine the free cities had more lax social rules on stuff like this.

>>3124497
>William the Conquerer's (a.k.a. the Bastard) mom was a tanners daughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herleva

This isn't really an example he was asking for - Herleva later married a lesser noble because there was too much of a gap between herself and William's father Robert (hence while William was illegitimate.)

>>3124556
Depends on where you live desu.

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>>3124184
>and how did the existence of chartered cities
They didn't. This is why citizens and peasants literally have different rights. A citizen of a chartered city is a free person. A peasant owed someone. Hence the German saying "city air makes one free."

In large medieval states chartered cities were like a state within a state. They were represented not by a feudal lord, but by a mayor or burgomeister who is elected from the city council.

Even their military contributions were different: feudal domains contained their masters who were professional military men: the lords, their knights, and men at arms. Meanwhile in chartered cities it is often a requirement for citizens to present themselves for militia training and server for a period of time within the militia. During wartime, their militias join the state's army alongside their feudal conterparts.

>>3128156
Yes, after her hubby died. She was mom of a King, a Duke and a Bishop. She is the perfect example of social mobility by marriage.

If you were a woman you could have a noble bastard (being a mistress of a noble gave you a better life than a peasant), they could maybe marry a lesser noble if they were very, very lucky

Peasant men never married noble women, their family would never allow it. They had to gain mobility by being merchants usually

Owen Tudor wasn't technically a peasant but he was a low ranking Welshman with very dubious origins, he eventually married Catherine of Valois (he was essentially her bodyguard)

>>3128322
Marrying rich widows was a sport back then.
>>3128344
this guy gets it!