>Hey guys let's sail all the way to this strategically

>>3098112
WERE THE SYRACUSIANS SPARTANS?

DID THEY PRACTICE EUGENETICS TOO?

DID THEY KILL HELIOTS TOO?

I NEED TO KNOW

Well considering Sicily at this time was an island known for it's rich soil, powerful cities, and great location for trade, you can't really blame them.

>>3101228
Yeah but why didn't they do that later? Why did they just throw away their chance at winning against Sparta?

>>3101232
They were probably betting on it giving them an edge in the war.

>>3098112
Because it wasn't strategically insignificant at all.

And because the Athenians couldn't beat the Dorian league in open land battle, but felt secure both in defending their fortifications and in battle on the water. The war in Greece proper had reached a stalemate, and one that Athens felt reasonably secure they could outlast the Dorian league in. So while you're waiting, why not settle a score? Unless the Syracusans somehow manage to beat your fleet (what are the odds of that happening?), the expedition is one that carries very little risk.

This map isn't correct. What side most colonies on Sicily would choose depended wholly on which of the two sides was going to flex their muscles and win any engagements on the island. Thus it wasn't so much neutral as it was up for grabs. And it makes perfect sense for Athens to try and use it's naval superiority to secure hegemony on an important island, never mind that (conflict in )politics and ambition were great stimulating factors for this expedition.

The guy who shilled for it, Alcibiades, was a total showboat, although he was a smart guy. I think only he had the wherewithal to pull it off. Too bad athenian democracy threw a shitfit and tossed him out to sparta

>>3098112
Sicily = bread
Greeks quite literally depended on this island

>>3101304
I dunno. While I'm not denying that Alcibaides was a good general, a lot of the campaigning for Sicily was based on the premise that the other local polities, especially Taras and Kroton, would help supply the expedition, which they didn't.

Once there, no matter how good he is, he's going to have trouble in that go-like campaign of circumvellation and contravellation when the Syracusans have the local cavalry advantage to the extent that they did.

>>3098112
Sicily has grain you retard, Greece is a barren mountainous wasteland where you can't grow shit except fucking olives

>>3101317
>>3101329
/thread

>>3098112
>Alcibiades proposes to send a small force to Sicily, ally with minor powers, defeat Syracuse and have the island as ally, receiving resources and soldiers as payment
>Enemies of Alcibiades don't like the idea, proceed to increase funds and troops of the mission to make people renounce to such foolish enterprise
>Athenians actually go with it and the scope of the operation increases dramatically, along with the objectives changing to dominate Sicily
>Alcibiades opposes such madness, nobody listen to him
>Alcibiades gets accused of crime a few days prior to initiate the operation, refuses to go unless granted immunity
>Immunity granted before parting
>Operations begins, Alcibiades immunity is declared void
>Alcibiades flee
>Whole athenian fleet is without commander and the minor powers fear them
>Minor powers ally with Sicily, Sparta send them advisors
>Athens proceed to get BTFO, even the gods intervene against them
>Sparta mops up remaining athenian forces in Greece

Reading that part The War of the Peloponnese is really funny

>>3101385
Well put.

Populist stupidity.

>>3101385
Good summary, but we call it the Peloponnesian War in English, just so you know.

What was a worse excess of Athenian democracy- the treatment of Alcibiades here, or executing the victorious generals after Argunusae?

>>3101463
Not him, but probably Alcibiades. States that are about to lose a war, especially a long, bruising war, tend to act weirdly, and that goes for any form of government, democratic or autocratic. Consider the enormous amount of purging, almost revolving door style, of generals during the last few months of the Third Reich. You can't argue that was a democracy, so attributing that sort of reaction to an excess of the governmental system seems to be non-indicated.

>>3101385
Long live democracy

>>3101385
Tragic desu. The utter annihilatin of the expedition. all those rowers, soldiers... a significant fraction of the athenian citizenry that were essential to the function of the polity, slaughtered like pigs fleeing in the countryside or worked, and starved to death like cheap slaves in the marble quarries. The best commanders of the athenians got executed by the syracusans with zero remorse