Seriously asking, was Joseph Joffre autistic? Are there any papers

>>3080726
Bump for interest

>>3080726
You know what? I'm also interested.

>>3080726
Papa Joffre did nothing wrong
Verdun had to be held at all costs

He was competent and kept a battered army at its task
Shouldn´t forget that ww1 armies were citizen armies

>>3080726
Bumpity bump. I'd like to know more.

>>3080726
Hes one of the more sane French commanders as opposed to the "YUO MUST ATTACK ALL THE TIME XDDD" generals.

He was not, Robert Nivelle was

>>3080726
>Fought the Germans in ww1 valiantly and was well respected
>Ww2
>Suck Hitler's dick and become puppet of the Hun

>>3083944
Thats Petain, brainlet. Joffre died in 1931.

>>3083974
Shieeet, got them confused

>>3080726
I want a mustache like that.

>>3080726

Joffre is confirmed most autistic WW1 general possible. He's one of the most fervent partisans of the offensive doctrine (he still believed in Napoleonic warfare) and dismissed systematically any evidence that it didn't work. He also lacked experience, his only successes being as an engineer in capturing Hanoi and defending Madagascar and Tombuktu, but others helped him to that so it's not really him

He believed that he should push in Alsace-Lorraine and leave open the Belgian front (in his initial plans) because he needed to be on the offensive and invade Germany. He believe that the French were more courageous, had a better ''élan''.

Moreover, he systematically refused before the war to make a detailed plan, because he thought such plan would necessarily be wrong since he lacked information. Therefore, his plans were basically ''hurrdurr attack''. And when he planned his offensives, he somehow believed he'll ALWAYS get the optimal conditions to make his offensives succeed.

And when the Germans invaded Belgium, he hesitated to send troops, because there were too many ''unknowns'' on the Belgian front, which allowed for German invasion.

Also, very autistically, he dismissed anyone who criticized his plans, as he thought they were the best, an he even kept his plans completely secret (even from the army) until the start of the war which screwed up the initial deployments. And since he didn't like to plan in advance, he waited way too long to even act.

And his logic is this :
>attack
>it fails
>it means the enemy has a bigger reserve than I thought
>therefore attack more to weaken the reserve
>fail
>start again

And Joffre never wanted to be woken up from his sleep or be bothered when he was eating. So between like 6pm-8pm to 8am he was unavailable. Truly a great general.

Check:

Doughty : French Strategy in 1914: Joffre's own

Prete, Joffre and the Origins of the Somme

Singer Mon Général, the Case of Joffre

Stewart, Joffre and plan XVII

>>3084072
Truly the hero we didn't deserve.

What's your favorite source about this? I want to add this to my reading list.

I don't know, between Petain, Weygand, Gamelin, and co. there's a hell of a lot of frogginess going on...

>>3085732

All the sources together offer a good sense of Joffre's character. I wouldn't choose one over the other. But I think all the sources are unanimous (it's been some time since I read them) on the fact that Joffre is a very bad general, who systematically remains too calm during the assaults and remains too optimistic, thinking every single one of his assault will succeed. He systematically underplans, because of his lack of information, which to him means we can't really plan in advance (he also dislikes planning, thinking warfare requires making stuff up on the spot), and refuses to listen to anyone who thinks he's wrong. When the Germans invaded Belgium, the only reason France didn't collapse and counterattacked successfully at the Battle of Guise was because of general Lanrezac, who hate Joffre, because Joffre didn't want to send soldiers not knowing everything about the Belgian front and was too preoccupied with trying to invade Germany through Alsace.

Literally every single early French victory in the war were due to people other than Joffre. Joffre did nothing right, and screwed everything until he was relieved of his functions .

Bump for offensive doctrine bist doctrine.

>>3086616
Thank you, based anon. I can only repay you in fiction recs.

>>3084015
its more trouble than its worth

>>3087952

It's what matters in the end.