https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being

>>3051475
Your existence is a direct refutation of God's existence. If there was a God he would never create such a faggot.

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>>3051475
The Bible m8

>>3051494
SPBP
Will OP ever recover?

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>>3051505
But he agrees with me and I am a massive faggot.

Niggers exist, therefore God does not

>>3051475
The universe God created suffices.

>>3051494
This but unironically. The absolute would not create things.

>>3051630
Is it okay with you if God wants to create a universe?

That okay with you?

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>>3051633
No I mean he probably did I just don't think he's the absolute. I think the reconciliation of all things into pure essence (the Monad) is the absolute.

>>3051626
Apologists are the kings of bad rhetoric. I mean its like circular reasoning and begging the question just aren't concrete ideas to these people.

>>3051646
You can tell yourself that in hell

>>3051646
Ah, unity in diversity. The ultimate goal of so many of mankind's systems.

And found quite readily in the Trinity and in the true church, all born again believers united by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, Jesus being the Head and Chief Cornerstone.

>>3051652
It's not circular at all.
A painting infers a painter.
a building infers a builder.
Creation infers a creator.

More than that:

Romans 1
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Pay attention to the words "without excuse".

>>3051475
Necessity alone.

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>>3051657
>muh hell

That's all you can ever come up with. Let me clue you in pal. Even if some superdimensional being could sustain you in a place of pure torment it would not necessarily follow that he is the absolute. In fact by the unwillingness to facilitate a total reconciliation down to the microcosmic level I would say no your concept of God is not the absolute. You are basically an ant saying "lets all worship the big guy with the magnifying lens so maybe he wont burn our asses". I suppose it would be wonderful if I could join you in that but I cannot merely control what I happen to believe.

>>3051676
So would the existence of God infer a super God?

>>3051714
No. not him but it's cause and effect. effects requite causes. causes do not require causes. the effect is the big bang, the cause is God. the idea of the prime mover goes back to ancient greece but you still have fedora's today rejecting it, probably to pursue their hedonistic lifestyle without any sense of wrongdoing.

>>3051755
So in a sense the very existence of God is a cause, rather than an effect. So does that mean God appeared out of nothing? I've talked with Baptists and they said he's eternal, beginning and end and whatnot

>>3051755
>effects requite causes. causes do not require causes. the effect is the big bang, the cause is God.
Or maybe the big bang was the cause
Or maybe God was the effect of Super-God
You don't know

>>3051790
The Baptists are correct.

There's basically two things that can be.
1. Something has always existed and will always exist.
2. Nothing has ever existed or will ever exist.

We exist so it's 1. According to modern science the universe began 13 billion years ago. Something caused it to begin. Call it whatever you want but historically it has been called God and has had a personality attributed to it because of people's personal experiences.

>>3051790
God is outside of time and space, he is eternal and infinite, hes transcendental

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>>3051805
>According to modern science the universe began 13 billion years ago
>Hey guys, I have never read anything abouy the singularity.

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>>3051805
So are Baptists the most correct with the interpretation of the Bible? They say I only have to accept Jesus as my lord and saviour, that I'm a sinner and I can only be salvaged by God if I want to get to Heaven. It seems logical, although my Roman Catholic teachings keep me confused as to how I don't have to confess my sins or go to church every Sunday.

>>3051836
Romans 10:9

No where in the Bible does it say anything about confessing your sins to a Catholic priests. You need only ask God to forgive them and accept Jesus's sacrifice.

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>>3051836
you know the answer m8

>The Universe exists, therefore god is proven and my particular version of Skydaddyism is 100% true.
>this is what monotheists actually believe

>>3051829
So if we opened a book of the origins of the universe right now would it say the universe began 13 billion years ago or would it say the universe is actually infinite years old because of the theory of singularity.

>>3051714
God went so far as to say that He searched everything everywhere and there are none like Him, so, no.

>>3051852
Braise Alah:DDDD

>>3051852
Never said anything of the sort. Just that a necessary first cause of the universe exists and that naturalism is false.

>>3051713
>but I cannot merely control what I happen to believe.

You absolutely can, because you now believe this drivel.

If you worship God just to avoid hell, you win, not lose.

One of the absolutes you're so keen on is that God will absolutely not forgive blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, a sin you are steeped in and unlikely to recover from.

>>3051836
Yes, stick with the good old bible believing Baptists and you will not get steered wrong.

>>3051847
So basically I can keep sinning, but I will still be able to get to Heaven by accepting Jesus's sacrifice, accept him as our saviour and ask God for forgiveness? The Baptists explained that the commandments and such are there for us to keep track of our sins more rather than follow them to the T (They admitted to having lied before)

>>3051855
It would say that time as we know it was created with matter, but there has never been a state of universal nonexistance.

>>3051855
Such a book exists, and states as its opening phrase: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

>>3051883
>If old enough, recorded testimony provided by Jews is 100% reliable evidence
The Abrahamic Axiom

>>3051877
The Law is there to show you that you are a criminal; that's what all laws are there for. In this case, they are God's Laws, and only God can follow them.

The Law is there to show you that you need God's mercy.

As your Baptist friends are telling you, God's mercy is available to you if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead.

You will find after you are saved that your sins are a non-issue with God; He already heaped them upon Himself at the cross, bore the wrath of God on each and every one of them, before you were born, and forgave you of all of them.

All you have to do now is go from spiritually dead to spiritually alive, which is what we call being born again in the Spirit.

>>3051880
So basically saying that God exists, in a science book. We have come a long way since the enlightenment haven't we.

>>3051887
Anything provided by God is true, whether through Jews or not.

Where do you think this universal hatred of Jews comes from, if not from the enemy of God?

>>3051863
As if you faggot knew how the universe started.


>I don't know, therefore I need a god

>b-but we have absolutely no proof that a "god" existed or created the universe, also it would only raise the question who created god
>god always existed, unlike the universe he doesn't need a start

>but non, that is stupid, you just said the universe cannot come into existence out of nowhere, but god can?
>yes that's why he is god
>but anon, this is completely stupid, you just threw in some metaphysical being just to avoid a complicated question

Sorry anon, but I'd rather go with the big bang and rather listen to people that got noble prize in astro-physics than faggots that got a gold star in Sunday-school

>>3051868
You cant worship god just to avoid hell though. You have to love him.

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>>3051755
Correct.

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>>3051895
>but I'd rather go with the big bang
Meet the author of this theory: a catholic priest

>>3051895
I didn't say the universe couldn't be infinite. that what all those scientists said about the universe only being 13 billion years old.

>>3051805
>Baptists
>Correct
Daily reminder that Luther is tasting hellfire.

>>3051755
It's a strange separation between cause and effect you make.
>Effects require causes. causes do not require causes.
This statement is not true for all causes and effects. Something may be a cause as well as an effect of a previous cause. If you place three dominoes in a line and rip the fist so they all fall successively, the first domino is a cause, and the falling of the second domino is an effect, but that same falling is also a cause of the next event. A cause can exist also as an effect, and therefore causes do require causes.
Concerning your broader point, Because we do not know what it is, the initial, unmoved cause can be asserted as anything. You assert God, but the term has no descriptive power, and tells us nothing new about the universe. It is an empty term with no properties.

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>>3051890
???
Wrong. Quit clowning

>the universe was in a different state than it is currently, therefore a sentient being must have willfully caused this change
There are so many logical holes it's embarrassing. Just admit your have your """faith""" and quit pretending like you have facts on your side.

>>3051909
Wow, I so believe in the pope now! I feel ultra-catholic and want to face rape a cute little altar boy now!

>>3051902
You absolutely can. Hell is very real, and the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The Lord is the one who can kill you and cast your soul into eternal torment.

Fear Him.

>>3051892
Why would God create people who are not Jews if Jews are his chosen people?

>>3051917
Yes, shame he never became a bible believing Baptist and remained a bitter excommunicated papist.

>and all the STEM majors laugh as christcucks try to explain physics

>>3051927
are you really this ignorant to the subject? Only thing Jews were chosen fore, is that Jesus would be born in that tribe for ALL mankind. And Jew isnt even a strictly ethical entity, its religious.
Chosen people now, are Christians.

>>3051927
God took for Himself a people and made a covenant with them. They broke it repeatedly, and eventually the covenant will be gone.

However, they provided the means by which the world would not only know it needed a messiah, a savior, but how to identify such a messiah when he arrived.

Every prophet spoke of the coming messiah, and what he would do, the miracles he would perform, the circumstances of his life, etc. It was all laid out for the Jews to be the only group who had salvation offered to them.

But as Paul points out later, the mystery that is involved in the Old Covenant is that the plan of God was always to open salvation to both the Jews and the Gentiles. Knowing the Jews would reject His Son (the parable of the vineyard), it was always in God's heart to save anyone who believed in Him, and was not following the gospel of the devil (know good and evil, do good, avoid evil, and thus be like God.)

If there were no Hebrews, no Old Covenant, and Jesus was just born in say, India, he would just be one of millions of fakirs, one of hundreds of millions of avatars, and mankind would have no hope.

>>3051926
I never said I don't fear him. Actually that's where this whole business started. And afterall even the demons tremble and so on.

>>3051920
>matter and time didn't exist
>something did

That's basically admitting to believe in the immaterial.

>>3051938
Will they laugh so much when everything they think is true, is actually false?

Will they laugh so much when everything they "know" today proves to be wrong?

Science is always wrong, and always will be. And it will always be foolishness to God, who will use the "wisdom of mankind", i.e. science, to confound the wise.

Right now the wise are confounded by the very fine tuning of this universe for life; finely tuned to such a degree that the numbers are indistinguishable from infinity to one against.

And yet here we are.

>>3051953
Well, if you fear the Lord, and do not wish to be cast into hell, what is stopping you from throwing yourself at His feet and begging for mercy?

Surely you know he will in no wise turn anyone away who does this?

Are you afraid? Do you have a spirit of fear plaguing you? If you like, I will pray that spirit departs, and give you a clear opportunity to approach God on your own.

>>3051920
So there was nothing, then everything that is suddenly appeared in a singularity the size of a pin, which somehow exploded for no reason and somehow expanded space, escaped its own infinite gravity well, and spewed explosive gasses throughout the universe, some of which coalesced and eventually became parrots.

Is that what you believe?

Do you not see some holes in your logic?

>>3051942
>>3051948
If he already knew the Jews would break the covenant then why did he keep 5000 years of people before Jesus from attaining salvation?
Either: a: they did not have souls b: God is cruel or c:God is not omnipotent.

>>3051954
Read before you speak on a subject please. :)

>>3051976
Or:
D: humans have free will and He respects this

>>3051976
He did not. Anyone who believed in God had that belief imputed into righteousness before God; anyone who believed Moses and the prophets is saved; anyone whose heart is toward God is saved.

When Jesus died and went to Hades, Paradise, He led that great assembly therein to heaven; that side of Hades is now empty. The other side, Torment, is not.

>>3051974
>there was nothing
Wrong
>>3051980

>>3051968
Because I can't trust him on any ongoing basis. And I'm not sure I can love anyone

>>3051980
I kind of stopped paying attention to secularist theories right about the time they tried to unirnoically push the multi-verse as being realistic.

>>3051984
Free will is an unfalsifiable and I'm provable concept. There is no evidence of it
>>3051987
Those people were denied paradise regardless, all Jesus did canonically was amend this cruelty.

>>3052007
Many worlds is a generally disregarded quantum interpretation today.

>>3052008
Lastly, you'll perhaps ask for the evidence that you exist.

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>>3052008
I'd like to point out that least of all is there biblical evidence of it

>>3051990
The "universe is 13 billion years old crowd" believes that prior to that there was nothing.

Pick a belief and stick to it.

>>3051994
Anon, in order to get through life you have to trust someone.

If you can't trust God, Who is literally Love, who can you trust?

You'll find that once God gets a hold of you, and has His Holy Spirit inside you, that you will not only be able to love but be unable to stop loving.

>>3052008
They waited in paradise, Jesus shows up and takes them to heaven.

I don't know how you can call any of that a denial without it being Opposite Day.

>>3052035
>>there has never been a state of universal nonexistance.
What, is it hard to characaturise your opposition when they directly state something contrary to your predispositions?

>>3052035
Sorry, meant for >>3052038
>>3052059

>>3052035
God says choose.

So you have choices to make.

>>3052059
Look pal, the bible has multiple instances of God micromanaging people's emotions. He hardens Pharoah's heart, he makes Samson fall in love with a philistine woman. And who could forget the classic "whom he will, he hardeneth". Christianity is probably one of the worst positions to argue free will from. Not least of all because of the concept of omniscience.

>>3051810
>he

Cite your sources shitlord

>>3052074
>>3052061
My bad homie

>>3052063
You've never heard of compatibalism?

>>3052074
Pharoah hardened his own heart 7 times, 7 being the number of completion/perfection.

Samson fell in love with whomever he wanted.

>>3052083
I don't believe in "reconciling" the truth with a lie.

Determinism is a lie, and thus not compatible with the truth. And the truth is that we were created free will moral agents for a reason, and that reason was so that love, freely given and freely received, was possible.

That is not possible with determinism, which is under all its finery merely an attempt to avoid personal responsibility.

>>3052087
I can't comb through the bible to find every passage that might have some relevance to what I'm talking about but somewhere it says that God made samson fall in love with the philistine in order to facilitate diplomacy between the people of Israel and the Philistines.

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There is none.

What is the actual evidence for his non-existence?

I don't know. I can't know. And you can't either. You can only believe that he doesn't exist. I choose to follow his laws and commandements, to attend mass and participate in Church life in the Church I was raised in despite my constant doubts. If I live my life this way and there is no God, there is little downside. If I live my life this way, and there is a God, then I will be saved.

>>3052091
>I'm just going to go ahead and believe whatever I'm comfortable with and assume its divinely inspired

Go ahead and believe whatever the fuck you want. I'm doing the "reading the book right side up" interpretation here.

>>3052094
Oh, I know what you're talking about.

Judges 14
Now Samson went down to Timnah, and saw a woman in Timnah of the daughters of the Philistines. So he went up and told his father and mother, saying, “I have seen a woman in Timnah of the daughters of the Philistines; now therefore, get her for me as a wife.”

See how he picks the woman he wants? From the wrong group of people?

Remember, God made Samson to kill Philistines. This was a provocation so that Samson could kill some Philistines:

But his father and mother did not know that it was of the Lord—that He was seeking an occasion to move against the Philistines. For at that time the Philistines had dominion over Israel.

God plays Risk on a full size board.

>>3052104
Determinism is clearly contrary to the bible.

God states directly that it is not His will that any should perish, but that all come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

The bible also states directly that the path to heaven is narrow and few find it; the road that leads to destruction is broad, and many find it.

So if it is God's will that none perish, but most perish, it is clearly not God's will that is controlling here but the wills of the people perishing.

Your will, not to put to fine a point on it.

>>3052123
At any rate he plays the pieces "according to his will".

>>3052130
He can, if He chooses. All authority is from God, and any man that takes authority from God to rule over men puts his heart in God's hands, and God can guide his heart like He guides a river.

That is the cost of seeking to usurp authority over men when God does not grant it to you.

>>3052134
>*autistic Christian tangent sounds*

Shut the fuck up lol

>>3052129
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcbeX3zMBjc

>>3052141
Any pieces God plays put themselves in God's hands by taking authority that belongs to God.

It's really quite a simple concept, and not tangential to your debate over whether you have free will or not.

You, not being a ruler over men, have not put your heart in God's hands, and thus retain your free will moral agent status.

You need to learn the vast difference between God's express will, that which God says He will do, and God's permissive will, under which all sorts of evil occurs.

>>3052158
Yes. God has at least two wills; His express will and His permissive will. >>3052160

>>3052158
I like this guy, thanks.

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>>3051475
>What's the actual evidence for """God""""?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py10Xs63ewA

>>3051676
What makes you so sure that the universe is a creation? The universe may have been finite in the past, but that doesn't necessitate a creator.