Lets have a general discussion about HRE i got a few questions

>>3045693
1 >the polish nation wouldn't become part of the HRE but the lands it is was formerly on could have had they been conquered while the empire was stronger
2 >Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation
3 >Geography
4 >what
5 >Frederick II

>>3045693
>Could Otto II.'s Drang nach Osten ever succeeded? Could Poland become part of HRE?
Unlikely. Even if he had managed it, Poland would have been part in the way northern Italy was, meaning not at all outside of point of law.
>During Baltic crusades, why didn't the crusades make the newly-converted tribes part of HRE?
Why would that happen? The crusaders weren't an imperial army. If anything, from a statal point of view Denmark, Sweden and Mazovia were more relevant than the HRE in the crusades.
>Why has Bavaria - one of economically strongest and biggest parts of the Empire - never reached any significant political importance like Austria, Bohemia, Prussia or Saxony?
Bavaria was broken in pieces for most of its history. It was relevant when united from the 10th to 12th century, but then broke up in two and then three pieces. By the time they rejoined, neighboring Austria was incomparably stronger already.
>Stauf or Welf?
Why would I have a preference? Let's go with Welf, I live close to their founder's birthplace.
>Who was the best emperor and why was it Charles IV.?
Freddy II, tho you could argue that he was the best king of Sicily who also was the HREmperor.

>>3045722
Well then Polish people living on those lands would become part of HRE. I wonder how would that together with Czechs affect the whole "HRE of German nation" later on

>>3045722
>3 >Geography

"Prussia"/Brandenburg started as an irrelevant rural swampland at the edge of Germany.
It had more to do with how militarized the country had become.
Bavaria didn't become so powerful even if it was bigger, more populated and in the interior of the HRE.

>>3045741
>Bavaria didn't become so powerful even if it was bigger, more populated and in the interior of the HRE.
Yeah and i'm curious why. I know they were important, especially in the 18th century, but why were they otherwise irrelevant when they got such a good position?

>>3045748
>i'm curious why
Wittlesbach EXTREME dynastic shitflinging.

>>3045732
>Poland would have been part in the way northern Italy was, meaning not at all outside of point of law.
Thats making a lot of assumptions
Italy was "independent" mainly due to the city-states individual economic and political power, something like that could've been missing in Poland.
United Poland with one king would be probably an issue to maintain, but if Poland would undergo fragmentation during 12th-13th century like it did, then it would be possible for a strong Emperor to expand his influence there.

>>3045722
>of the German Nation
was only used after 1500, long after the crusades. Also, Bohemians, Morovians, Sorbs, all part of the family.

>>3045764
I was under the impression we were talking of Otto II. What's the 13th century got to do with the subject?

>>3045777
If Otto would manage to get Poland king (I think that was Miesek) to swear loyalty to him, then they would be a lot independent state within HRE, but (if history would go the same way) over the course of time, Poland would fragment between the different Piast princes, and that would give the Emperor the opening to step in and restore imperial authority up to the point Poland would become integral part of HRE like Bohemia.

I mean, its all just alt his, but its fun to imagine true middle European HRE

File: Bayern 1450.jpg (345KB, 1275x1820px) Image search: [Google]

345KB, 1275x1820px

>>3045693
>Could Poland become part of HRE?
The window of opportunity opened in 1138, when Poland became divided between 5 brothers, who instantly started to quarrel with each other. Bear in mind that before that date several german rulers led military expeditions into Poland, and failed miserably every single time, not only due to resistance of polish rulers but also extreme terrain difficulties. Finally in 1157 Barbarossa made a successful expedition to Poland and amanged to subdue its princes. It is a pity that neither he nor his succesors on imperial throne did nothing to press the issue further, as they preferred to get entangled in italian affairs.
I honestly believe that by not pursuing subjugation of Poland when it was still a very nascent and undefined nation, Germany lost its chance to rule Europe.
>Why has Bavaria - one of economically strongest and biggest parts of the Empire - never reached any significant political importance like Austria, Bohemia, Prussia or Saxony?
Unlike Habsburgs, Wittelsbachs wasted all of their once-in-the-lifetime opportunities for greatness. Also, too many internal divisions.
>Stauf or Welf?
Ascania
>Who was the best emperor and why was it Charles IV.?
I have a lot of sympathy for Lothar von Supplingenburg

t. polish Reichboo

>>3045741
Prussia is one of the luckiest nations in history. Bavaria did not have such luck

File: gugl.jpg (135KB, 860x579px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 860x579px

>>3045887
ES WAR MORD!