Name one downside of this armor. protip: you can't mail

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>>3044015
I don't think mail and leather armor has ever been used together in the past

>>3044015
t. heavier than plate

>>3044015
Leather is fairly stiff and not light at all. You're better off reinforcing a regular padded jack with mail or wearing plate, depending on the time period. Couched lances could penetrate this kind of defence.

>>3044015
Heavier and less protective than plate.

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>>3044015
>*bludgeons you*

>>3044015
If you wear leather armor you'll weigh to much for a boat so you'll never make it to Sardinia.

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ITT people who don't know a thing about armor

>>3044015
Leather armor like you posted was never used.

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>>3044178
Not an argument

Chain mail looks to be made of unbuttoned aluminum rings that are useless.

>>3044015
Can't stop a bullet

/thread

>>3044145
Teach us! We're all here to stroke our egos so stroke away we'll watch ;).

>>3044145
Did not know this existed

>>3044015
What was the first armor

>>3044015
if leather gets wet, then drie, it shrinks

You literally could not bend over, duck, twist, etc., in that. At least good plate can be structured to allow such movements, leather is just too stiff (especially with mail underneath) to allow any maneuverability of the core.

>>3044091
Underrated

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Armor and sword of a Zweihander

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>>3045434
Probably a bone cuirass like the ones they made in Siberia and North America

>>3044015
It gets really fucking hot.

>>3044045
You wear plate with cloth, padding and mail under it, so no.
Wearing plate alone is retarded and offers very little protection.

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>>3045589
Making armor from the bones of your enemies?
Metal as fuck

>>3045617
More like deer bones.

>>3045606
did you achieved this level of idiocy by your own or someone helped?

>>3044034
What are they doing?

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>>3045481
Two can play your game

>>3044034
East europe and west asia, look it up.

>>3044015
"Pin cushion" comes to mind.

>>3044015

>downside

Any spear or dagger will pierce it.

>>3046961
Didn't know spear or dagger could pierce chain Mail

>>3047015

Yes, that's kind of what they are designed to do.

>>3047015
>>3047033
It is highly unlikely to actually break a link in mail but these weapons usually have a thinner point that can hurt even without breaking the links.

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>>3044015
>chainmail is butted
>chainmail is not tailored to the body
>chainmail extends beyond the gambeson
>leather is a shitty armor

The best armor will always be 16th century plate

>>3047076

Links are only as strong as the rivet holding them together. In the rare instances they're found in archaeological contexts, they're almost always broken individual links.

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>>3047097
Heard you were talking shit.

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>>3047224
I'm gonna blow your mind with this anon

LARP=/=real life

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*blocks your rail*

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>>3044015
It does not have a cape

>>3044015
Twice as expensive.

>>3044145
>viking style
>not naked
Dropped

>>3044145
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age_arms_and_armour#Lamellar
>There is considerable debate however as to whether the lamellae in question were in the possession of a Scandinavian resident or a foreign mercenary

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>all these fucking pures posting iron armor

train defense or get fucked

>>3045985
>ren-faire-trash-dot-jay-pee-gee

>>3047224
>leather besagews
>they don't shield the armpits

lel

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I assumed this thread is serious about hardened leather, cuir-bouilli or however you want to spell that. Given that there is actual historical evidence for it being used on top of maille. I would hazard to guest that they were some advantages in wearing Leather, whatever those reasons were though, are lost to time.

If we're just shitposting 'Why would you wear a plate when you can wear leather? or vice versa' then I digress my statement.

>>3049577

>Given that there is actual historical evidence for it being used on top of maille.

Is there? The only examples I've seen are backing for metal plates.

>>3045623
Don't ruin it

>>3044705
On a /his/ board, it absolute is relevant

>>3048826
Runescape

>>3044015
Rings probably butted. Shitty, loose weave. That leather is shit.

It isn't plate. No coat of plates.No forearm protection. No throat protection. It's shit.

>>3045606
You're a retard.

>>3049596
It was definitely used for recreational tournament fighting, and there is, as far as I know, a copy of ONE order by ONE lord for a few hundred pieces of leather, in addition to other gear.

>>3048826
Runescape

>>3048808
Either it still proves leather was still used as armor

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>>3044015

Large pieces of leather are hard to make, and expensive to replace. One blow and you have to replace the whole section. Lamellar or leather scale is a better option than this larp stuff.

Also large plates of metal are superior to mail in every way, except for the amount of labour required to create them. This is why people stopped using mail

>>3044091
Heh.

>>3051896

No it doesn't. The lamellae found at Birka are made from metal. Reenactors make them out of leather because it's easier.

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>>3052093
Can you go futher on the leather lamellar?

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>>3044091
>implying people in the middle ages could sail all the way to Sardinia

Leather armor is a meme. People wore padded jacks of various kinds (gambeson).

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>>3053516
>brigandine
My nigga

>>3053478
>Leather armor is a meme
Wrong. People in iron-poor nations would make do with leather armor.

>>3054105
Leather is expensive and finding enough leather to make a suit of armor would be far to expensive for the poor and far to weak for the rich

>>3052208
What about boiled leather? I always assumed if there was ever leather armour being used, it would be out of that.

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>>3046855
Why only those two

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Name one downside of this armor.

protip: you can't

plated mail is best

>>3054702
>Drowns in a river

>>3054712
>uses shield to float

gotcha

>>3044015
ask Dutch rebels how to teach Spanish invaders to swim.

>>3053552
Da fuck is this?

>>3054134
This.

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*blocks your path*

*continues to use mail in the 17th century*

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>>3055025
*cuts through mail like a katana through plate*

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>>3055048
o-okay

>>3044077
Same thing could be saiy with plate

>>3044015
>leather is on the outside

What are you a moron.

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>Leather Armor was never used
Explain this

>>3054134
>Leather is expensive and finding enough leather to make a suit of armor would be far too expensive for the poor and far too weak for the rich

leather armor's not close to weak. It won't prevent a sword going right through or an axe from dealing a glancing blow but will muffle most swipes and slashes and cushion projectiles fired from a distance. Combined with gambeson it being relatively cheap to make, relatively mobile, and durable, it's very efficient, and levied troops could provide it themselves.

>>3044015
Doesn't protect the neck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_guillotine
enjoy being a head in a sack, nerd

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>>3044015
>Wearing armor
>Being such a casual skrub that you even entertain the possibility that something could land even a glancing blow against you

Heh, that setup's not bad, kid, I'll grant you that much. But that's for amateurs. Real professionals know the trench coat is the way to go on the battlefield. You'll block any incoming attacks with your katana anyway, so you might as well go for style. It'll really leave an impression on the opposition, believe me, kid.

>>3044077
Yeah, no shit. Nothing can stop that while still being mobile. Might as well have posted a gun.

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>>3044056
>Couched lances
Dude, a couched lance is gonna have a horse behind it and armor is not really gonna assist with that

If you could use modern manufacturing and materials, what would the best armor for warfare before guns?

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>>3044711

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>Leather Armor never existed

>>3044077
That will break bones through plate too.

>>3050140
Khorne pls

>>3054650
Is that a leather coat of plates

>>3057256

>thread blatantly talking about Europe
>BUT WHAT ABOUT CHINA!!!!!!

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>>3058172
>doesn't know East Europeans used Leather Armor

>>3044015

I only need One bullet to end your life

>>3044015
Leather can't stop crossbow bolts. Neither can mail. Plate might be slightly dented but the man isn't dead.

>>3058206

So then it should be no problem to provide historical examples of them that aren't modern LARP costume?

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>>3058387
>Plate might be slightly dented but the man isn't dead.
What. Crossbow can penetrate Plate

>>3058206
there is no such thing as leather "armor"

leather clothes maybe, but padded cloth seemed to be prefered

>>3053552
That is a 13th century coat of plates, basically plate armour held together by an exterior leather vest. It was usually worn over mail and padding.

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>>3058689
>there is no such thing as leather "armor"
um try again sweetie

>>3058751
Not an argument

>>3058751

>he thinks buffcoats are armour
>not status symbols that support the wearing of actual armour

>>3057520
There was video explaining mechanics of Tiger knight game, with "real life testing"(they knew difference between riveted and butted mail, so they weren't completely clueless)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i32q0qV3gws
And I love the part, when they test leather one, and
>shit, it doesn't protect against anything
>>3058751
>coat
>armour
yeah, it was perfect defence against rain.

>>3057266
>cheap
Not in europe it wasn't.

>>3057476
Lances were not reliable against plate breastplates. Men would target visors for this reason.

>>3054650
couldn't afford plate

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>wearing mail in the 17th century
Why are the Ir*sh so dumb?

>>3057326
>blocking with your katana
>not dodging and teleporting

you don't deserve to hold the blade

>>3045481
Why were his shoulders so small /his/?

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>>3057476
>Dude, a couched lance is gonna have a horse behind it and armor is not really gonna assist with that
They started to wear a coat of plates on top of their mail during the high middle ages specifically to protect against lances. Of course we do have evidence that even those were no completely reliable defence, e.g. there are sources mentioning them being penetrated, but it made people a whole lot more likely to survive the impact.

>>3061022
It looks like it because there is currently not a man inside the armour. Although Warhammer, World of Warcraft, etc. might give you a different impression but pauldrons commonly aren't stiff xbox huge pieces of metal but moving parts that fold without actual shoulders underneath them.

>>3060820

IT'S ALREADY FLEXIBLE

WHY WOULD YOU MAKE IT INTO SEGMENTS

>>3049431
yeah

>>3061476

It's probably for LARP so he wants it to look like Roman armour without going to the expense of getting the real thing made in metal.

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>>3061042
>World of Warcraft
I can't remember how it was in WoW, but in Diablo 3 is similar problem with pauldrons.
Pic related, it looks ok-eish, right?

cont.

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>>3062498
WRONG!
That character on first pic doesn't have pauldrons equipped.
So basically, in game like D3 pauldrons are not only retarded in size, they are also worn over actual pauldrons.

>>3061042
They don't even look awesome, just really really ridiculous

>Mail is not rivetted together, just looped

That armour is worthless. You might be better off not wearing it and be faster/less tired out from it.

I mean what else is there to say? If you could afford it, you would have mail. If not you had very padded cloth. Sometimes both. Leather is neither warm nor does it provide much in the way of protection that padded cloth couldnt do better and cheaper to buy/maintain.

Maybe the warriors at the time thought it looked cool to have pieces of it, that I can believe.

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>>3062551
>Implying the common man can afford riveted chainmail

>>3062582
>implying he would buy expensive as fuck leather, which would protect him against literally nothing, instead of good gambeson, metal helmet and whatever other metal parts of armour he would have money left for.

>>3054702
The maille is butted and the plates have large enough gaps to get a blade through.

I'd trade that entire kit for a 2 metre long sharpened stick.

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>>3044015
Won't stop a lance
>>3044077
Won't break a shield
>>3044145
Won't stop a javelin
>>3045481
Won't stop a mace
>>3045589
Won't stop arrows
>>3049577
Won't stop a crossbow bolt

Armor is for pussies and it doesn't even do it's fucking job against men that are trying to kill you and know what they're doing. If you want to survive you get yourself three large thick heavy shields, strap one to your back and dual wield the rest. Wear protection only for your head, forearms and calves. Get spikes or some shit on the front of each shield. Now just duck a bit to cover your head like in pic related and you're a one man phalanx. Your coward friends in plate armor will call you a weirdo but you'l survive 3000 arrows later while they have their heads bashed in by some tribesman with a stone hammer.

>>3062965
>>3045481
>Won't stop a mace
It will stop the mace. They were obsolete at this point. Warhammers would work, but they are definitely not the best weapons to use in infantry formations.

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step aside, plebs

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>>3063746

This, Latin and Arab cucks can't compete.

>>3062965
Romans wore plate armor you fucking tit

>>3044015
Short sleeves

>>3044015
Where's your under armor padding? Even if whatever that hits you doesn't damage that piece of leather, you are gonna have a broken rib or something.

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>>3063924
A gambeson and maille underneath

>>3045623
What if deers are my enemies?

>>3065351
You eat them

>>3045606
>You wear plate with cloth, padding and mail under it, so no.
>Wearing plate alone is retarded and offers very little protection.
>>3045766
>did you achieved this level of idiocy by your own or someone helped?
>>3051681
>You're a retard.

How about you make a point instead of throwing insults at people?
Nobody learns anything if you just quote a random post, call the author retarded, and close your browser.

>>3063746
nice thumbnail pic

>>3062965
These tow things are not used in the same way... armors and and shiel are not used for the same purpose. The zweihander was not in the front line in the battles. Your shield units are made for stand ming in front of the fight and tank a lot damages. The zweihander just come in the middle of the fight to strike very badly the opponent in the right moment.

>>3045481

no

What was the best armor for a peasant? A gambeson and chainmail?

>>3067220

Yes basically. Thats what documents like the Assize of Arms says they should have.

>>3067222
I read the chainmail the peasant used were butted

>>3067220
>peasant
>gamberson and chainmail

On what fucking planet?
The best armor for a peasant is to wear all his clothes at the same time, maybe stick some straw in between layers.

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>>3060820

This is so disgustingly cringy, its not even aesthetics jesus.

>>3067256
>The best armor for a peasant is to wear all his clothes at the same time, maybe stick some straw in between layers.

Fucking kek

Is this an armour thread? Or do i make one?

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>>3067275

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>>3067284

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>>3067291

>>3044015
It's not vegan

>>3067256

>it's a "/his/ ignoring actual history to spew nonsense" episode.

Assize of Arms.
Bridport 'muster' Roll.
Coventry Leet Book.

Look these things up.

>>3067411
>free layman who possesses chattels or rents to the value of 16m
>average peasant

>>3067433

>Item, all burgesses and the whole community of freemen shall have [each] a gambeson,an iron cap, and a lance.


Please, tell me more about peasants going to war with straw up their jacket

>>3067231
What would be the point of that? It would be still expensive, but would offer close to none protection.

>mail and plate brainlets have never heard of scales
Top kek

>>3069547
How do scale armor compare?

>>3044015
A gun

>>3047224
oops there goes your arms, also if i use a 16th century sword on your ass you're gone

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>>3058206
>>3058172
>>3057256
>>3058751
>>3058887
>>3058878
>needing leather armor
>not using cotton armor

https://pintsofhistory.com/2011/08/10/mesoamerican-cotton-armor-better-than-steel/

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>>3070444
Let it go. Its all plate fags or leather fags.

>>3070099
Scales, even if they are made of wood, completely block cutting weapons.
Depending on overlap, they do okay against hard piercing weapons (spears, daggers that you push) and good against soft piercing weapons (arrows, javelins that you throw and can't adjust/reapply the power).
They do pretty horrible against raw blunt force. An axe hit probably won't open a wound, but it will bruise the muscle and break the bone.

>>3070884
>They do pretty horrible against raw blunt force
That's not a con anon. Most armor can't handle Blunt force.

>>3071292
Well, if you are wearing a cuirass you are probably not too worried about someone hitting you in the chest with a piece of wood.
If you are wearing scale, this is a serious issue.

Doesn't stop bullets

>>3070444
>This cotton armor was very dense and could be two fingers thick, and it repelled arrows and spears almost as well as a Spanish steel breastplate.
proof?

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Blocks your blades and low velocity bullets

>>3073080
>Bombs you

>>3073032
I don't think none of them can stop bullets

>>3059329
I will not trust the Chinese to make a realistic movie/game.

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>>3073080
*Pierces your Kevlar*

>>3073046
Not the same thing, but the british wrote plenty of books about how their sabers and bayonets couldn't get through russian cossacks winter coats.
You underestimate how much a thick fabric can do to defend. The old urban myth about the book stopping a bullet isn't purely fiction either.

>>3045481
I appreciate his dick armor

>>3073046
I'm sure that "almost as well" is an exaggeration but the spainish did mention their effectiveness in their accounts and in many cases switched to it over their steel breastplates due to the climate and it still being reasonably protective.

That article also fails to mention that it would be soaked in mineral rich water and left to dry so crystals would grow inside of it and help make it more resistant.

>>3046855
>East europe
never heard about it and I'm from eastern europe you just pulled something out of your faggot islam loving western ass and hoped it sticked might as well say in eastern europe people used double edged axes and horned helmets.


The only ''leather armor'' used here was lamellar.

>>3070444
Stupid as fuck, a good sharped longsword or claymore can fuck up your stupid jean armor. The european swords was the best.
BTW th katana is a piece of garbage compare to EU sword.

>>3075651
>The old urban myth about the book stopping a bullet isn't purely fiction either.
It is. Bullet will go through multiple thick books. I am sure, that on youtube there will be multiple tests of this, and they don't have to use desert eagles for that.

>>3076338
>This assblasted
>That double space
Shit dawg, maybe should get off of 4chan for a while and learn to make proper knots. A couple more tries and you'll be there buddy ;^)

>>3076855
https://youtu.be/lcIdKh-Id5g?t=2m13s

>>3076338
I've personally boiled and cooked leather until it turned into what is basically plastic.
Testing it with a fucking kitchen knife, it seems adequate armor.

If you had little tiles of it tied together as a scale armor, it would be even better, since it could absorb more shock, and it would have overlap for more piercing protection.

>>3076887
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKFl0wRh68A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0zrF1hTG-k

>>3077486
Why are you posting these? It only takes one bullet being blocked to confirm that
>The old urban myth about the book stopping a bullet isn't purely fiction either.

Besides, one guy was shooting from point blank range (and the bullet still didn't go all the way through), the other guy had thinner books with empty space between them, flapping around.
You can make your experiment in such a way that its set to fail, or set to succeed.

The point is, to keep the offtopic talk down, it is possible for a book to block a bullet, and thus the myth isn't purely fiction. I am not advocating book based armor, I am saying its not entirely fantasy for a book to stop a bullet, since it has happened under some circumstances, including on viceo.

>>3075651
>Not the same thing, but the british wrote plenty of books about how their sabers and bayonets couldn't get through russian cossacks winter coats.
Literally a direct result of the blades being BLUNT.

Keeping them in a metal scabbard has that effect, and soldiers abuse the absolute shit out of bayonets for working tasks.

>>3076897
Kitchen knives are not representative of actual weapons.

>>3076897

>kitchen knives are the same as daggers and spears specifically designed for stabbing

>>3076855
there was a ww1 soldier that was saved by holding his diary, the bulllet went through the book and he suffered a non-lethal wound

>>3057326
>*teleports behind you and grabs your ass*
I real trench coat man doesn't go off guard easily. Heh. Kid, I'll get off your case because it's quite clear you're an amateur.

>>3044015
A giant magnet

check mate.

>>3044015
WAKE UP SHEEPLE! Leather armor can't stop metal weapons.

>>3045481
>Friendly reminder that this guy leveled up dex

>>3077957
Seeing how the same officers didn't write similar things about indian or chinese clothes, I imagine its more than just being dull.

>>3077966
>>3078049
>your experiment is invalid, because it wasn't a medieval knight pushing a medieval sword into a medieval armor piece during the medieval period

It came out like quality plastic, it was hard and dense, and it most definitely could serve as armor.
Excuse me for trusting my own senses and experiment more than I trust imbeciles on a white pride forum.

>>3076897
Kitchen knife isn't a good testing gauge, because it lacks the penetrative power of a spear(pushing a long shaft, allowing good leverage and angle), and might lack a piercing edge.

What you are saying is that its not completely useless, but for what is a rather expensive investent: Wouldn't just padded cotton/linen/flax armor be cheaper and more effective?
And i guess if you engrave it: It looks good as a top layer.

>>3045434
Well humans wore furs for generations, so probably fur that was held together by tree Sap because Ugg slept under a tree yesterday, after that maybe naturally occurring leather because of how hot an area got

>>3079983
I don't know how you'd engrave it, after the processing I did it was hard enough to break by twisting it.
Probably you'd need some metal applied after it boils, while it is trying?

>>3067163
Zweihanders were used to disrupt pike formations you mong, you'd probably use them in a checkerboard formation
Or do you have a military manual which says otheriwse

>>3079994
Zweihanders were used by bodyguards to fight off multiple thugs at once, and very rarely in organized warfare.

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>>3080014
>Zweihanders were used by bodyguards to fight off multiple thugs at once, and very rarely in organized warfare.

>>3079158
But how do you know this, this faggot >>3045481 would never tell anyone about that.

>>3079918
Not an argument

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>>3079918
You're an idiot, and your experiment is utterly worthless.
This is a rondel.

Note how, unlike a fucking kitchen knife, it comes to a sharply tapered point. They're also utterly inflexibile to the point that some of them are flat out three sided spiked with hilts.

The majority of kitchen knives are thin, have shit designs for stabbing, and bend easily. All of which are piss fucking poor for defeating any form of armor.


You're an idiot, and you need to go sit in on a second grade lesson on what the scientific method is and why we use it when experimenting.

>>3081199
>you are an idiot *moves the goalpost* fucking idiots i swear

What I say:
>>3076897
>it seems adequate armor.

What you are implying:
>the perfect anti-armor device of the era that can beat any armor can also beat this armor, thus you are an idiot

Plenty of armor was used (thus was considered adequate) and was garbage at defending stabs. It was there to protect from slices, which are easier to do.
Also, the longer the weapon, the harder to properly stab through armor with it, so by wearing armor you are forcing your opponent to surrender range. Thats why kills tended to happen when you get knocked down first, and only get wrestled and stabbed with a dagger later, effectively first defeating you and only then defeating the armor.

Now go sit on a second grade kitchen knife.

>>3045606
You wear padding underneath chainmail too you twit
plate armor is and always was lighter than chainmail

>>3081370
>the perfect anti-armor device of the era that can beat any armor can also beat this armor, thus you are an idiot
Rondels did jack shit against plate armor, and would need a mechanical advantage to defeat chain.


>Plenty of armor was used (thus was considered adequate) and was garbage at defending stabs.
Except that's fucking wrong. The only commonly used armors that weren't particularly effective against stabs were textiles, and those would still offer a degree of protection, depending on blade geometry and details of the weapon.

>Also, the longer the weapon, the harder to properly stab through armor with it, so by wearing armor you are forcing your opponent to surrender range.
And yet the poleaxe was the premeier weapon for knights fighting on foot.

>>3081429
Not an argument

>>3079990
>I don't know how you'd engrave it
You literally compress in a pattern, boiling or some shit.
I guess you could literally clamp carved wood, and just think of it as boil print

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>>3079994
>Zweihanders were used to disrupt pike formations
If they where, they would remain in use far longer than they where. Instead its posted as a Merc/Honour Guard weapon: Somewhat practical, but not for real 100% boner combat

>>3081370
>>3081429
>Plenty of armor was used (thus was considered adequate) and was garbage at defending stabs.
If this was true, Throwing Spears, Archery, Crossbowfaggotry and Slings would have remaining in use far longer than they where.
If the argument was that "the outer layer of a armor could be shit, so long layer 2 or layer 3 protects properly against hard spear stabs", then you could have had a good argument.

Another possible argument is: "Armors was segregated into economic class, and only high nobility wore complete modern kits, while everyone else used cheaper knockoffs"
Which would end up true for Feudalism, at the least. Or any society where High Nobles existed, and participated in Warfare.

>>3064483
Thats some gay ass belt shit anon.

>>3057476
You just know

>>3067849
Not sure about that, I saw some real pieces in a Scandinavian museum that didn't appear to be of that style. I think it was common but I'd say that making the assumption that all rivets were that method is incorrect.

>>3062498
>>3062503
Aww, crap. And here, I though that this armor looked actually cool.

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>>3067275
>>3067294
Milanese-style armor is really the best looking armor.

>>3084437
Dull, functional armor with no ornaments. Suitable for modern times, but back in the day I am sure people preferred the german armor with all the decoration, rather than the clean italian armor.

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>>3084447
That's exactly the reason why I love it.

>>3070444
Hahahhahah how the fuck is cotton armor real hahahahha nigga just hit it with a torch like nigga just light it on fire haha

>>3084447
forget the gay frills man this is war

>>3084540
This is a very modern attitude, and the kind of person to fight in full plate would disagree.

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>>3084450
>>3084437
>not gothic armor

>>3062965
>Only three shields

manlet

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>>3082452
>100% boner combat

>>3084447
Both styles were popular. Stop being retarded.

>>3084447

Italy was the go to place for mass produced armour to outfit retinues and private armies.

>>3085299
Not an argument

>>3085306
Please do go on

>>3088576

Basically the Italians (mostly Milan) had workshops dedicated to cranking out armour. They weren't highly fitted or decorated like true bespoke pieces but they were "in stock" as it were. If some lord wanted to outfit his 10 best goons he'd probably send off to Milan to get them off the shelf and with him as soon as possible. Richard III orders something like 200 complete suits following his coronation to beef up his retinue.

Not to say they couldn't do highly fitted, one off pieces or that Germany didnt have some mass production capacity, but it's what Milan was known for.

>>3088576
>>3088635

The problem that sometimes crops up with surviving armour, is that sometimes the Germans and Italians copied each other.

You have spikey, fluted German style armour being made by Italian armouries and plain, flowing Italian style armour made in Germany. This is made even more complex when you learn there's very few complete suits left today. They may look complete in museum cases, but most were compiled from scattered parts that looked similar, with more than a few being straight up modern replicas or having more modern (well, Victorian) repair work than actual historical.

>>3088576
If you wanted to buy a truckload of cheap armor you purchased from the discount bin, aka Italy.
If you wanted top tier armor for yourself and your son, you purchased from Germany.

>>3048826
Runescape

So, what happened with those suits of armor? did they all got destroyed or something?

>>3088937
Fuck off. People could and did buy custom armor from italy, and munitions gear from germany.

>>3090478
More or less. People don't usually keep obsolete things around, or maintain them against the elements.

What do you think happened to horse drawn a carriages and carts?

>>3090488

They are still being used here in Brazil

>>3090478

Yes basically. Either directly smashed up in battle, left to rust in a corner somewhere or cut up for the metal to be used in something else.

Henry VIII had shiploads of old armour taken out into the channel and thrown overboard just to get rid of them. Just prior to the explosion in popularity of medievalism, most of the Tower armouries were sold as scrap and melted down, with only the best/most beautiful pieces being kept.

There's something like one complete Gothic style suits and half a dozen Milanese style suits left, with all the others being mix and match combinations of other suits. So far exactly zero pieces of armour have been found in the English style other than perhaps a few random arm plates. The only way we know about it is from artistic depictions and tomb effigies.

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>>3090513

Fuck...

By the way, what about surcoats? Its just bunch of cloth sure,but It couldn't be that detrimental right?

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>>3090527

What about surcoats? Why did they vanish? They didn't really. They're not depicted in mid 15th century art that often but they're still there if you keep and eye out. They do become shorter and gain "sleeves" though.

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>>3090548

Another view.

>>3090548
>>3090550

I thought this was a coat of arms, but I really wish Europe stuck with plate armor + (longer) surcoats, I think they give an fantastic aesthetic.

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>>3090550

Artist depiction on the two kneeling guys

>>3090557

"Coat of arms" normally refers to the actual design drawn/painted or sewn on rather than a type of jacket. This garment is generally referred to as a tabard. There are references to people "putting on their coat armour" which is normally taken as them putting on all their armour with their tabard on over the top of it.

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>>3090574

For example, the (medieval) coat of arms of the English royal family.

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>>3090558

>dat neck ring

Was that an art error or did someone actually made gorgets merged with the breast plate?

[spoiler]Is merging the gorget with the breastplate a bad thing? I look at those gothic plates and I can't help but think of it as kind of unsafe, by having the plate so close of my neck.

Also, breastplates are multi pieces that form layers, while cuirasses are sengle pieces, right? are there any benefits to a solid single cuirass as opposed to a regular breastplate with a plackart? [/spoiler]

>>3090574
Oooohhh.

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>>3044015
I can think of three points. Each.

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>>3090584

And the coat of arms on a tabard/jupon as it would have been worn into battle.

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>>3090588

Good spot. Hadn't noticed them. At first glance they could be standards, mail collars with a leather/fabric edging (pic related, the hack who took the photo was looking at the collar buy you can still see the standard and the edging), but they're painted the same as all the other plates. They could be bevors, which can articulate and be pulled up and down (with a springed pin to hold it in place when up) which is what the guys at the back seem to have.

The way I've heard it described, a breastplate is the bits that cover the front of the torso (though if you want to get really technical I think it's strictly the plate that covers the chest, with the placket covering the belly, lames and tassels covering the upper leg etc), while a cuirass is a breastplate and backplate combined. Either strapped or hinged together, so the entire torso is enclosed in steel. Early breastplates covered just the chest, but slowly get longer and have more plates added, then backplates get added too.

>>3044056
A couched lance would fuck up most things.

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>>3090622

Not the breast of examples but this illustrates roughly how short an earlier breastplate would be.

>>3045481
Looks like hes overcompensating for something.

>>3049577
>hazard to guest
Opinion disgarded

>>3090646

A lot of the giant swords that crop upare likely to be state or civil swords, carried in processions and parades. They need to be huge so people can see them and for the town/city/ruler to show off their wealth.

>>3090646
yeah, the fact that he's not on horseback

>>3090502
How do monkeys even know to attach them to horses though?

>>3090548
>>3090550
whats the difference between a surcoat and a tabard

>>3093513

A tabard is a shorter cloth, like a t-shirt or a floppy brigandine.

A surcoat is longer, sleeveless and ankle lenght

>>3090622

Thanks, but about bevors, are they good or some sort of half frog mouth that covers the lower half of the face would better?

I mean, some sort of gorget that extend from the chest piece? Sorry if I am banging on the same key, its just that I think the trauma on something that close to the neck could still be dangerous

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>>3093696

I mean something like pick related, I get the swordbreakers, but a frontal protection shouldn't be overlooked right?

>>3093696

There's some evidence to suggest that they were padded on the inside. All surviving examples have buckles or clips to attach them to the breastplate so the force of an impact would go into the chest too.

>>3093675
okay thanks

So, why didn't they armor for the back thigh?

>>3094831

made armor*

>>3094831

They did? English effigy armours have fully enclosed legs. Then again, the English fought almost entirely on foot. Continental styles may be missing plates there, as it may interfere with riding and is an area that would be protected by the saddle (and horse) anyway?

>>3094846

Is that so? Well, it just that I never saw an armor with complete thigh enclosure so I assumed it wasn't a thing, thanks.

>>3094872

I may be completely wrong of course, but that's what I've heard from talks and a limited amount of observation.

Keep in mind also there are major changes in armour style even within the same century. Armour from 1415 is completely different to armour from 1485, even within the same country.

>>3075640
is this for real? I've always wondered if arrows could pierce modern kevlar.

>>3094942
Kevlar works by shattering the damaging, arrows aren't as easy to break.

>>3093732
Tourney armor

>>3094961
What

>>3097147

Hmm, that doesn't really answer my question, but thanks anyway.

>>3098888
Kevlar is made of fabrics. You can't pierce them with a dull object (bullet), they will break it and slow it down.
However, you can cut it with a kitchen knife or scissors. Its fabric, and its strength is against things that can't cut it. An arrow can cut it.