Did Soviet Union lose because capitalism is the better system,

>>3041551
The former.

>>3041551
Soviet Union lost because they didn't know how to make allies
Most soviet sattelite states didn't want to be under soviet influence
t. russian

Why not both?

>>3041565
The USA was stronger, because of capitalism.

>>3041555
Soviet Union didn't really have a choice
USA was able to give more gibs for potential allies, so SU had to use military and secret service to keep their allies in line

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free and open society vs repressive and closed society. simply put, free people are happier and more productive than those living under the boot of totalitarians. mass media and globalization killed the ussr.

>stay mad tankies

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>>3041614
>simply put, free people are happier and more productive than those living under the boot of totalitarians

>>3041617
>attempting to refute an argument with a propoganda poster

3/10, i replied

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>>3041617
>propaganda poster

the soviet union disbanded itself

russians, yes the russians, thought theyd be better off without tiny countries as estonia and alike

the USA beating anything is a myth
ppl wanted to be free, so they started carefully look for that freedom when soviet leadership wasnt sure about becoming violent

you havent helped with anything, you were sitting there on your fat sharting asses and "welcomed" whatever was happening

Authoritarian regimes are top heavy on success. But if the system only churns out boot lickers and sycophants the system decays.

Had the Ukranian famine been better managed, If Brezinek wasnt a retard and tried to modernize the economic system away from oil production (The fall of oil prices did more to destroy the USSR than every single CIA plot) and if they just let the Hungarians and other eastern europeans try their own version of socialism, and Gorbachev still allowed free votes the USSR (although a bit smaller) would still be around and arguably better off than modern day Russia.

But this is all my opinion, too many things have to change that we might as well speculate what if the native americans obtained guns and horses earlier or if the pagan nords conquered all of britain. Or what if Japan successfully destroy the american pacific fleet. etc...

>>3041714

Oh please

People in those countries could see how much better life was in the USA and western Europe while theirs stagnated or decayed.

An objectively better world was sitting across and all the propaganda just fell flat. If nothing else, simply having a higher standard of living did much to discredit the political line.

>>3041614
Again, the USSR worked perfectly until the US manipulated oil prices and had proto-Soros bullshit. I'll take communism any day over your corrupt hedonistic cosmopolitan bourgeois society.

>>3041679
>>3041692
>they made think that soviet people weren't free
talking about propaganda

>>3041568
/thread

>>3041743
>Again, the USSR worked perfectly until the US manipulated oil prices and had proto-Soros bullshit

Supply and demand are above your ideology. Why were you so dependent on oil for wheat sales to begin with? The USSR's fall only had itself to blame

>>3041743
>people shouldnt be allowed to do things i dont like
youre like a left wing puritan dude LOL

>>3041717
>if the Holomodor had been handled better...
it was handled precisely as intended. ukranians starved because the central soviet forcibly stole ukranian crops in what was essentially attempted genocide via starvation.

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>>3042222

False. The famine was caused by hoarding and kulaks killing all their livestock and burning there grain.

Well, the free peoples of the world were able to form a coalition of respect, the soviets only ever had fear and suppression to organize their satellites

>>3042250
Kulaks did not exist in the 1930s.

>>3042203
That's what the USSR was, and what the Russian people still want at a high level.

>>3042263
>coalition of respect
>yet the CIA interfered in elections in France, Italy, Britain to keep them loyal to the US
>yet the CIA supported banana republics across South America

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>3041743
It started stagnating in the late 70s.
US was fucked hard by the oil crisis in the 70s, ending the post war golden age. This was probably when the USSR was at its peak strength relative to the US.
The US managed to get through that fine, how come the Soviets couldn't? Does communism just not work?

>>3041614
does anyone have the full length version of this?

>>3041809
Retard. How about you tell a Pole, a Balt or a Hungarian how free he was under communism.
Then tell me how many teeth you lose when he smacks your stupid, spoiled fat American/Western European face in.

>>3042441
>it's OK to be a cunt because the amerilards are cunts

Really fired up my nervous circuits.

>>3042454
Poles and Balts are eternally butthurt, along with "Ukrainians". Hungarians, Czechs, Belarussians and Balkan countries all look to communism fondly though. They don't like the degeneracy the EU brought, its why in a lot of those countries you see a resurgence of the reformed ex-communist parties.

>>3042461
My point is, both sides did bad shit, but to paint the Americans as angels and the Soviets as the devil is retarded.

>>3041568
And it had a huge industrial head start...due to capitalism.

>>3041809
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956

so free

>>3042466
The cold war was the Americans and the Russians letting their dick measurement contest give mental trauma to the whole world.

>>3041568
>>3042468
This is retarded. The USA was a very developed nation (I'm not going to deny this) while Russia was a complete shithole that started industrializing only under Stalin. Keeping that in mind, I'd say the Soviets did pretty well. It wasn't due to communism or capitalism, it was because Nicky was stupid to to the max which is why he got himself and his family killed.

>>3042472
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

Gotta love American freedom.

>>3042481
Also I should note that Stalin invited foreign companies like Ford etc to help industrialize the USSR. You have to be either retarded or CIA to keep things to the simplistic 'muh communism vs capitalism'.

>>3042496
Sauce?

>>3042466
You know shit, don't pretend to be a smart on this subject.
t. ukranian.

>>3042481
in america: can walk down the street wearing a trashbag arm in arm with your SO who you are in a homoesexual interracial relationship with whilst saying "fuck that nigger donald trump" to everyone you see and not face any legal consequences. but youre right, lets take away everyones property rights and relinquish all agency and autonomy to a centralized authority that will enforce proper standards of behavior because any sort of dissent is a potentially destabilizing internal threat. some people just know whats best for other people, right? we just need to take away peoples ability to make the wrong decisions, by any means necessary.

>>3042502
Here you go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ

>It started in 1932 as NAZ, a cooperative enterprise between Ford and the Soviet Union, as a result of a Five year plan.

Ford HELPED muh ebil five year plan, which at its basis was the crash-industrialization of a medieval shithole that the CPSU had just taken over and wanted to compete with the rest of the world, unlike Nicky who was content with keeping it as backwater shithole as long as he was in power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_Soviet_Union
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-signs-agreement-with-soviet-union
http://www.nvrg.org/Tours%20and%20Events/StalinistFords/Stalinist%20Fords.html

>>3042517
You can keep your American freedom, just stop enforcing it on countries who don't want it. I'm not saying the US should just adapt to an authoritarian model, I'm saying they should stop forcing their's on everyone else and stick to their borders.

>>3042534
>Nicky who was content with keeping it as backwater shithole
proof?

>>3042441
>>3042461
>>3042466
>>3042480

You're embarrassments

>>3042454
Tell the Southern states how free they were

>>3043064
Nigger?

>>3042481
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

>>3043096
My whole point is both power blocs did bad shit though. I prefer the Soviets on their cultural policy but on foreign policy? Both power blocs were meddling dicks, the Americans in particular still are.

>>3043096
>why does Russia do x?
>because it is the sad reality of our world that the dynamics of power force countries to do x. Here an example of America doing x
>wahhh, whataboutism, your argument doesn't count

>>3042466
>Hungarians, Czechs, Belarussians and Balkan countries all look to communism fondly though.
No we don't. Stop being retarded.

>>3043291
Most normal people do you dumb Sorosoid fuck. Fuck off back to America.

>>3043346
I've never been to murica and I don't plan to. My aunt emigrated there after Soviets came on tanks in '68, but that's beside the point.
Who are these normal people? Because I know plenty of ordinary people and no one is anxious to go back to times when stores were mostly empty and you had to use newspaper to wipe your ass.
Fuck off back to your communist safe space you retard.

Because Stalin fucked everything up like the dumb thug he was and stained the name of communism with unnecessary blood forever, giving the west the perfect excuse to terrorize third world countries.

>>3042472
>he thinks violent uprising is acceptable in free society
>he thinks aggressor that lost a war have right to choose the system of governing and decide his foreign policy

>>3043388
Stalin made communism good. Off yourself.

>>3043381
Eastern yurop here, don't bother. You're arguing with someone who is essentially mentally ill. A great analog would be /natsoc/ threads on /pol/, where a belief in a shitty ideology to begin with gets transformed into a bizzare pseudo-religion. This meme-socialist is the same. No matter how many testimonies you'll give, infographics disprove, you'll find the same arguments used again and again and again. He's not misinformed, he just feels and believes.

It's a pity really, mods should really be doing a better job. /pol/ seems somewhat contained, but the ultraleft portion of it appears to be ignored for most part.

centralized planning in large scale economies is doomed to fail due to agregated structural inefficiency plus political motivation preventing self-repairing and optimization among the economic actors.

next question.

>>3042466
The fact that you put "Ukrainians" in quotes tells me everything that I need to know about you.

What often gets left out of the narrative is that several places we now think of as shitholes were among the most developed areas in the world prior to Communism. Cuba in 1950 was richer than most European countries per capita. East Germany was among Europe's richest regions. Czechoslovakia was richer than France per person. Even North Korea was much more well developed than South Korea, it's where the Japanese put all the industry. And to make matters even more advantageous the USSR flat out gave handouts to their satellites, which accounted for 15-30% of some of their GDPs. Like Cuba. They had every advantage.

Yet after Communism those countries were shitholes outperformed by countries that prior to liberal capitalism were poorer than most of Sub-Saharan Africa. Examples include South Korea, Taiwan, and rural Japan (fun fact: Japan as a whole was less well developed than European Russia before WW2).

>>3041551
Yes.

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>>3042517
Sure thing m8

>>3041551
Both.

>>3043473

38% of Russians picked Stalin as the greatest historical figure in a poll this year. Not multiple choice. That's who comes to Russians' minds

You are not Eastern Euro, or maybe just a retarded millennial. People there no Stalin saved them from Hitler's genocide. He raised millions from poverty. He took a besieged dying power that could have gone the way of the Ottomans or Austrian and made them a super power.

MAN OF FUCKING STEEL!!!!!

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>>3044175

>>3042481
Communism made Russia weaker than how it could potentially be. Russia had already started industrializing before the Soviet Union. For fuck's sake, one of the reason Germany went to war with Russia is because they wanted to cut Russia's economy down (particularly its steel productions, IIRC). Even if there were no Soviet Union, it would still have industrialized, and probably been better because they wouldn't have needlessly antagonized the United States or the United Kingdom (like how they rejected the Marshall Plan, etc.). Sure, them being the two largest countries still would have turned them into rivals, I wouldn't deny that, but the Russians would have fared better.

>>3044207
>but the Russians would have fared better.
If they stayed a multi-party constitutional republic or constitutional monarchy (forgot to add).

>>3041614
>free people are happier and more productive than those living under the boot of totalitarians.
>more productive
What about China then? Or LKW's Singapore, South Korea, etc.

>>3042222
They were exporting the grains in order to acquire industrial machinery IIRC. Yes, in a fucking famine. I can't believe there are still unironic tankies nowadays.

>>3041551
Poor leadership and a command economy destroyed the Soviet Union.

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>>3042203
>commies are radical atheist judaism/christcucks
What a surprise.

>>3041814
That tends to happen when you have a massive, urban, industrial population and only 10% of your land is arable.

>>3042454
Contrary to American propaganda, a lot of people in Eastern Europe actually miss the old days. People were poor but homelessness was rare, drug issues other than alcohol were very uncommon, streets were generally safe, people worked on their own interpersonal networks, unemployment literally didn't exist, and the government actually made an attempt in most places to keep public spaces maintained. There were periodic shortages of some consumer goods, but people got by, and with government programs daily life could be very simple.

>>3043346
>>3043473
The evidence against your point is literally everywhere. Many people exist who miss the old days of communism in Eastern Europe, no matter how much right-wingers deny it.

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>>3044175
> russian
> """""polls"""""

>>3041743
The USSR almost collapsed in the early 20's because of Lenin's retarded economic policies which forced him to adopt capitalist reforms in the country and push harder towards industrialization (which is the only reason they survived the 2nd World War).

>>3041551
Both really.
>The postwar Econ boom for the US puts us ahead
>The US has always been an individualist country. Contributing to its continued dedication to capitalism.
>The Soviets continued to slump due Leonid Brezhnev. His insistence on protecting the nomenklatura basically created a noble class (oh the irony), creating brutal stagflation. In addition, his doctrine ballooned military spending and he conveniently forgot that his country had more people than just the military. Also the oil crash.

>>3041743
> USSR worked perfectly
It barely worked and the only thing that feeds them alive was good oil prices. Soviet economy was ineffective as fuck.

>KGB colonel in charge of Russia
>USA getting BTFO of the Middle East
>American Civil War 2.0 an actual possibility

Who won the Cold War again?

>>3044894
The country that doesn't have 40% rates of HIV in teenagers.

>>3044175
>t. Jamal the Marxist-Redditist

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The final straw for Perestroika was because Boris Yeltsin visited the US and was staggered by the quantity and selection of food in the grocery stores.

http://beelineblogger.blogspot.ca/2016/01/how-supermarket-visit-brought-down.html

>>3043381

63% of Romanians prefer Communism to capitalism

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-dictatorship-majority-of-eastern-germans-feel-life-better-under-communism-a-634122.html

57% of East Germans say GDR had more good sides than bad:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-dictatorship-majority-of-eastern-germans-feel-life-better-under-communism-a-634122.html

73% of Hungarians, an overwhelming majority, prefer Communism to capitalism. Only 8% say they are better off under capitalism.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-dictatorship-majority-of-eastern-germans-feel-life-better-under-communism-a-634122.html

These surveys singlehandedly obliterate anti-communist propaganda. If Communism was so evil, why do overwhelming majorities of East Europeans say they lived better under Communism?

There's literally no adequate response to this. You have no argument. Communism wins again.

>>3044905
China?

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>>3044905
quit your memeing m8

>>3044916
> East Europeans
> ever lived under real communism
It was basically liberalism light, socialist in name only.

>>3044914
USSR/Warsaw Pact was very much against western degeneracy.

>>3044924
>calling USSR/Warsaw Pact liberal

Holy shit, this is how I know you're an uneducated yank. The Soviets were way more conservative than you and didn't allow degeneracy like faggotry to run rampant. This is why even today, Eastern Euros are resistant to the LGBTBBQ propaganda imposed on them by your government's puppeteer-in-chief George Soros.

>>3044915
A drunk and a traitor, just like the USA's own Bill Clinton.

>>3044916
Based. Are you from Eastern Europe lad?

>>3044919
You know this graph doesn't exactly help your case much.

>>3044916
>communism wins
>died out within a three year period in every country in Europe
top lel
Also your poll states that it's young people who say the GDR was better when they barely had to experience life in it (like any remaining commies in the west).

If life was so good in East Germany then they wouldn't have built a wall to force their people to stay in it against their will.

>>3044916
The most incredible part about these polls is that it's not even a close contest. It's not like it's a 50-50 split. It's always at least a 60-40 split, at most 90-10 split in favor of Communism.

Another merciless porky slaughter: 81% of Serbs say life was better during Communism.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/for-simon-poll-serbians-unsure-who-runs-their-country

That means only 1/5 of people don't like Communism.

In 7 out of 11 former Soviet Republics, vast majorities again prefer Communism:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx

YIKES looks like I fucked up the links. Here are the links for Romania:

http://www.balkanalysis.com/romania/2011/12/27/in-romania-opinion-polls-show-nostalgia-for-communism/

Hungary:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/

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>>3044939
>The poll was conducted by the Center for Social Democratic Studies (CSSD), Friedrich Ebert Stiftung foundation and Center for Free Elections and Democracy (CeSID) in September of this year and it included 1,813 respondents.
Why do people take this shit seriously again? Just try and set up a communist government in these countries again and they'll put you on a crucifix.

>>3044934
nice downplaying fgt

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>>3044930
> didn't allow degeneracy like faggotry to run rampant
Instead of harmless faggotry, the much more dangerous degeneracy of alcoholism was promoted by a state for the flow of cheap money.

>>3044942
If by "they" you mean capitalists, I agree 100%

>>3044946
Nice meme but alcoholism was rejected as well. The whole concept of a New Soviet Man is about a man loyal to his family (family values) and restraining himself from indulging in degeneracy like alcoholism and drugs.

Alcoholism was a thing in the Yeltsin years where they tried very hard to emulate the USA degeneracy.

>>3044950
You mean reasonable people who actually survived under communist rule unlike the LARPers on this board and the kids they keep polling? Yes.

>>3044930
Nigger we are still against degeneracy. We were conservative in spite of communism not because of it.

>>3044956
Fucking this

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>>3044953
> Alcoholism was rejected as well
So rejected that it was on the fucking rise until Gorbachev became that desperate that he just created prohibition law.

>>3044182
Daddy Stalin was a gift, and we just spit, shit, came, pissed and puked on it after we didnt "like" it anymore.

>>3044954
You still didn't explain why 60-80% of Eastern Europeans (depending on country) prefer Communism over capitalism.

>>3045007
Because they are brainwashed by leftism.

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>>3045007
>polls of less than 2,000 people signify the opinions of millions of people across Europe who actually revolted against communism
I'll bet you unironically believe in censoring the people in order to make sure nothing bad about the government gets out too.

theres a bit of misunderstanding here

eastern block countries dont miss communism per se

but they miss the positive aspects of it, employment, financial safety, state helping them with housing, holidays, babies etc

and if you take a look at the countries and who or how governs them, its pretty clear they like Daddy government to take care of them, to promise 13th month pension, to promise jobs, to protect them from bad loans THEY made and so on

its a bit funny because they hate communism, commies bad, hiss hiss, but please think for me and take care of me Mr. Prime Minister

>>3045022
you are retarded, get lost
>>3045024
also retarded, go and find out who was Gallup and what does representative surveys mean

>>3042454
>Hungarian
The Hungarians didn't hate communism, they hated Russians. The '56 revolution was carried out mostly by communists that had become disillusioned with the Soviet system.

>>3045040
The only one who is retarded is you with your ad populum fallacy argumentation.

>>3045044
Soviet systems IS communism, there is no communism beyond Soviet autism.

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>>3045040
>if I call them retarded it will bring back big daddy Stalin to purge those meanie capitalists REEEEE
Reminder that you would get eaten alive under any of those communist regimes and wouldn't even be allowed internet access as it would give too much information on the government's actions to the people.

>>3045047
no kid, you got no brain
it was consumed by pol, trying to use some sorta rhetorical arguement for a time when it shows your have ZERO actual knowledge

your "opinion" is garbage, you have no education, you believe in mishmashed ideologies fed to you through charts and jewtube videos, but since you know better, you eat it all up

go cry in a corner, and fuck the hell off from here

>>3045052
>internet access
>good

If I could trade this dumb shit for a stable society and an orderly country, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

>>3045024
Find me a poll which shows most East Europeans prefer capitalism to Communism. You won't be able to, because none exist.

I'm from Eastern Europe, and I personally know zero people who wouldn't rather live under Communism than capitalism.

Most Eastern Europeans associate capitalism with brutal poverty, obliteration of social safety nets, illegal acquisition of wealth by a small handful, and overall misery, exploitation, and soulless cultural materialism.

Communism, on the other hand, is associated with a dignified quality of life for the average person, free healthcare, free education up until university level, very strong social safety nets, no unemployment, no homelessness, a culture without degeneracy, and in general, a life incomparably better than under capitalism.

>>3045022
One minute you were saying Eastern Europeans were brutally oppressed by Communism and hate it with every fibre of their being. Now you claim they're "brainwashed by leftism". Which one is it?

>>3045052
another specimen without reading comprehension
post more laughing faces

>>3045054
>eats up commie propaganda about governments that all collapsed back in the 1980's
>tells others to think for themselves
kek fuck off back to leftypol already

>>3045052
>I posted a pic with someone laughing and pointing at the camera, I'm so good at arguments haha!

>k
>y
>s

>>3045065
Leftypol doesn't consider the USSR to be true communism and hates Stalin, so actually wrong. You're just a dumbass Drumpftard who believes in MUH FREE MARKETS! and bombing Middle Eastern countries to flood white European countries with shitskins.

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>>3045061
I can already tell you're not even from Europe given that you identify yourself as an eastern European and not by your country of origin, you're not fooling anybody Jason Unruhe.

>>3045063
>>3045071
>commies triggered by a reaction image and freedom of speech/expression
Nothing new here lel

>>3045076
Better than being a supporter of a system that collapsed over 25 years ago across the world tbqh family

>>3045056
Feel free to start by example

>>3045078
>>3045083
Listen, I don't want to force Western Eurocucks and Americucks to accept our systems of government, but I want them to fuck off from forcing them onto us. The whole world isn't Britain and America and you fucks will soon either realise it or pay the price when China ends your reign of terror.

>>3045085
Sure, stop interfering in my country's politics via CIA to force your cucky "right-wing" puppets.

>>3041730

Life was better in Western Europe before Communism as well. It was better afterwards as well. Russia has, and probably always will be, a comparative shit hole.

>>3045078
>and freedom of speech
>freedom
>of
>speech
>Posts a Picture
>"""speech"""

>>3045091
I don't support the CIA though.

>>3045091
>The whole world isn't Britain and America and you fucks will soon either realise it or pay the price when China ends your reign of terror.
AHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The US and the UK rule this world! Go suck a pig's dick, you worthless LARPing commie!

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>>3045097
>speech/expression
>commie reading comprehension

>>3045052
Actually, in a Communist regime, I would drag you out of your house while you shit and piss yourself in fear, then I'd put you up against the wall, ask if you have any last words while you hysterically beg for mercy like a little bitch, and finally free humanity from the burden of your existence. To end the day, I'll go for a swim in the free public swimming pool with my hot GF (also in the Secret Police), cracking jokes and laughing about the counter-revolutionary faggot I just blew the fuck out of this universe.

>>3045096
That line doesn't really work when you have East and West Germany as a direct comparison with each other.

>>3045091
You've definitely been caught LARPing, anon. What part of the US are you from, buddy?

>>3045104
If you work on that a bit more it could become a genuine copypasta.

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>>3045104
>Actually, in a Communist regime, I would drag you out of your house while you shit and piss yourself in fear, then I'd put you up against the wall, ask if you have any last words while you hysterically beg for mercy like a little bitch, and finally free humanity from the burden of your existence. To end the day, I'll go for a swim in the free public swimming pool with my hot GF (also in the Secret Police), cracking jokes and laughing about the counter-revolutionary faggot I just blew the fuck out of this universe.

>>3045101
Sure and a muslim mayor runs the capital city of your "Empire" and your old "white" dominions keep begging for more African and Middle Easterner colonizers. Great Empire you got there. Not to mention how you're a little bitch of the USA, which itself is dominated by spics.

>>3045119
Sadiq Khan is a good man.

>>3045119
>dominated by spics
>17% of the population
I thought commies believed in equality of the races?

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>>3045061
> ~70% of East Europeans prefer communism
> somehow only 20% voted for communist party

>>3045123
>he likes being ruled by his former colonizers

Sometimes it makes me wonder how the Anglo ever built up its empire if he was always so spineless.

>>3045124
Most Eastern European countries are 99% white, Russia itself is around 80-90% and its minorities have to obey Russian traditionalist laws.

Also the actual socialists in the East are patriots unlike the champagne socialists you have like Bernie and Corbyn.

>>3045137
Czech SocDems are more moderate socialists but still hold up the same views, they're even very critical of US foreign policy. Dawn of Direct Democracy is nationalist, which in Eastern Europe's case is very supportive of the old pro-nationalist policies of the Eastern Bloc. That's around 45%+ for a return to the old ways. Please educate yourself before you embarrass yourself.

>>3045151
> people voted for nationalistic party
> clearly they want back to communism
Can't argue with such next level logic.

>>3045151
>commies want workers of the world to unite under one unifying force
>commies also want nationalism, racial supremacy and traditionalism in their own nations
I will never understand how this clusterfuck of any ideology kept on after its initial revolutions.

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>>3045151
> Russia itself is around 80-90%
Yeah... All these white Muslims, who are somehow counted as members of a white race, unlike Syrian Muslims ones for some reason.

>>3045155
Communists in the Eastern Bloc were nationalists you complete and utter retard. Go read a book.

>>3045160
Any ideology has its splinters. Franco who was a fascist had his African soldiers rape white women who he thought were related to the Republicans.

>>3045161
Unlike in the West, in Russia immigrants have to obey traditions or they're blown the fuck out by the Russians themselves before the police can even get to them.

>>3045137
Not everyone who supports Communism necessarily supports that particular Communist party. Communists are notoriously sectarian. I for one would never vote for a Trotskyist party, even though it's "Communist".

Regardless, 20% is still a large number. If Communism was so terrible, why did 20% of people vote for the Communist party? If the anti-communist narrative is correct, 0% would vote Communist

>>3045137
The chart coincidentally shows the leftist and liberal parties on the left side with the most votes in 2013. Together they accounted for 55.15% of the vote. Mind you this is decades after the introduction of freedom™.

>>3045164
Franco wasn't a white supremacist though, not to mention was more in support of re-establishing and maintaining a monarchist Spain over a fascist dictatorship.

>>3045164
> Communists of the past were nationalists
> Means current nationalists are communists
I bet if they voted Green party you would say that they literally voted for the return of Gulags, as the Commies say they are for nature this one time on a propaganda poster.

>>3045155
If you actually listen to people like Orban in Hungary and other nationalist Eastern European politicians, you'd notice they frequently praise the "old system" whlie attacking the status quo. Socialism and Communism are far more compatible with nationalism than capitalism, which only cares about the bottom line.

>>3045173
In practice, it was a fascist dictatorship though. And you don't have to be a white supremacist to not enforce literal interracial breeding grounds.

>>3045175
Have you actually looked up the party to see what it's about? Have you seen what it's voter demographic is like? Stop living in the Cold War where its all about muh pinkos and try and read up on whats going on.

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>>3045164
> muh immingrants
This is without even immigrations. Muslims are full citizens of Russia and police rarely stops the most vicious of them.

This one mosque was literally voted as the symbol of Russia.

>>3045179
Only 20% people supported the literal communist party which actually means that 80% people don't want communism.

>>3045180
Police doesn't need to because if something happens Russians actually fight back unlike the limp-dicked West.

>>3045176
> Socialism and Communism are far more compatible with nationalism
This is why communists are so known for their internationalism, sure.

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>>3045176
>ideology literally built upon wanting to destroy imperialism and the nation-state
>more compatible with nationalism

>>3045188
> Russians actually fight back
They are too busy being drunk and fight each other for that.

>>3045189
Most political parties have international associations. You have to be above 18 to post on 4chan.

>>3045191
Actually try reading Marx instead of Trump, you'll note that he was very supportive of nationalism and has stated that workers are more patriotic than the bourgeois. The party he was associated with, the French Worker's Party, also had this guy who was definitely not for abolishing the nation-state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Vacher_de_Lapouge

Start reading books. I know its difficult for brainwashed CIAdrones, but it can be enlightening.

The US destroyed the SU economically

>>3045199
So you don't know what internationalism means?

>>3045199
> Most political parties have international associations.
Mostly autistic ones like communists. Where are democratic internationals that are ruled by Hillary?

>>3045202
I do, but the question is, do you?

>>3045205
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_International

Admittedly the Democrats aren't in it, the GOP are in the international cuckservatives association though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union

>>3045189
>>3045191

Stalin speech on nationalism, 1952:

"Earlier, the bourgeoisie, as the heads of nations, were for the rights and independence of nations and put that 'above all'.

Now there is no trace left of this 'national principle'. Now, the bourgeoisie sells the rights and independence of their nations for dollars.

The banner of national independence and national sovereignty has been thrown overboard.

Without doubt, you, the representatives of Communist and democratic parties, must raise this banner and carry it forward if you want to be patriots of your countries, if you want to be the leading powers of the nations.

There is no one left to raise it." (stormy applause)

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1952/10/14.htm

Not just Stalin but Lenin, Marx, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Ho Chi Minh, and many other world-renowned Communist leaders saw nothing wrong with nationalism, as long as it didn't degenerate into chauvinism and imperialism.

Why not read more books instead of spouting uninformed bullshit, humiliating yourself and discrediting your ideology in the process?

>>3045209
>I do
Clearly not.

>>3045219
See >>3045212

>>3041614

Anyone have the version with the guy in the chair?

>>3045101
>UK
>even marginally relevant
Bait

>>3045187
What about the neutrals or undecideds?

>>3041743
>until the US manipulated oil prices

lawl so until they fucked with the free market?

>>3042443
The USSR fell because the west seduced everyone with cheap crap, hollywood, and marketing that made it seem better then it was. socialisum was less sexy and thats why it failed.

>>3042443
socialisum and communisum are different things, socialisum is the path to communism
""""""true""""""" communisum has never existed.

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>>3041551
Liberal capitalism is simply a better ideology, even the USSR understood this and pursued increasingly liberalized reforms throughout its course.

>>3041551
Because "communism" is the worst
- corrupt as fuck
- therefore ineffective as fuck
- therefore handicapped regarding to economics
- therefore opressing as fuck
- therfore everyone flees as fast as they can, their best people included

>>3044857
>only 10% of your land
>fucking Russia
that adds to my post here >>3048226 : not even their huge reserves could help to relieve the sheer stupidity of a ubercentralized and therefore corrupt bureau in Moscow telling everyone what to produce, how to produce, when to produce and how everyone will charge everyone all what was produced

>>3048234
meant "resources" instead of "reserves"

>>3041743
:)

>>3041551

This is comparing apples to oranges. The Soviet Union wasn't a nation state like the USA is. None of the US states have had individual foreign policy for centuries. The Soviets were a coalition of states bound together by shared idealogy and military treaty. When ideological fatigue set in, the system perished. It's not like the Soviets hadn't been through worse economic conditions, they just couldn't convince people to grin and bear it. Capitalism on the other hand isn't an ideology, it's something that more or less occurs naturally if you let it.
A more appropriate example would be "why did Yugoslavia fall?" as that was actually a real nation.

>>3048258
>Capitalism on the other hand isn't an ideology

oh boy

Where did all these tankies come from? Just drop it guys, the delusional fuckwits can go back to leftypol and we just ignore what would usually seem like pure bait.

At some point in their lives they're going to realise the only reason they glorify communism is because they're neets that want to be provided for by society. We can't force this unfortunately.

>>3042481
>got himself and his family killed
The mental gymnastics used to defend Bolsheviks is mind boggling. He didn't get himself killed, a bunch if savage leftwing rampagers brutally killed him and his family for an ideology that ended up causing more human suffering than anything before it, all for free gibs.

>>3048258
>Capitalism on the other hand isn't an ideology, it's something that more or less occurs naturally if you let it.

This is equivalent to saying that atheism isn't a religious view. I am generally down with capitalism but don't kid yourself, ideology is everywhere.

>>3048416
Edgy university students, the queer feminist trans-supporting communists at my university unironically think Stalin, Mao, etc. dindu nuffin

>>3048258
> The Soviets were a coalition of states bound together by shared idealogy and military treaty.
Inaccurate.
The Soviets were a hegemony of states, with the hegemon being Kreml. Other countries were effectively administrative divisions, who pretended to be soverign countries to maintain the illusion of legitimacy of the "Union" part of Soviet Union.

>>3048258
USA is a nation state?

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>>3041714

>the USA beating anything is a myth

Oh you.

>ppl wanted to be free, so they started carefully look for that freedom when soviet leadership wasnt sure about becoming violent

You mean how there was a mass migration of Russians to America before and after the Soviet Union got BTFO?

>>3044182

comrade khrushchev would re-institute the gulag just for you because of fucking retarded your screencap is.

>>3045091

> I want them to fuck off from forcing them onto us.

Nobody is forcing you to do shit.

>The whole world isn't Britain and America and you fucks will soon either realise it or pay the price when China ends your reign of terror.

baka

>Sure, stop interfering in my country's politics via CIA to force your cucky "right-wing" puppets.

We don't need to interfere with your country for it to go to hell, get over it.

>>3045061

>Communism, on the other hand, is associated with a dignified quality of life for the average person

Irony, the post.

>>3045212

>Not just Stalin but Lenin, Marx, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Ho Chi Minh, and many other world-renowned Communist leaders saw nothing wrong with nationalism.

Every one of these despots turned nationalism into support for their own leadership first, support for the country was second.

>>3045212

>Why not read more books instead of spouting uninformed bullshit, humiliating yourself and discrediting your ideology in the process?

Stop projecting.

>>3048203

>The USSR fell because the west seduced everyone with cheap crap, hollywood, and marketing that made it seem better then it was. socialisum was less sexy and thats why it failed.

Where's was the USSR's equivalent of Hollywood to counter the evil capitalist propaganda?

>falling for the arms race
>not having freedom of speech and democracy

those are literally the only reasons why the USSR failed

>>3041551
The Soviet Union was also a capitalist country

>>3049656
>Every one of these despots turned nationalism into support for their own leadership first, support for the country was second.
So pretty much like any normal nationalist

>>3049692

>So pretty much like any normal nationalist.

So would America have abnormal nationalism? Support for your country first, your leadership second?

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test

>>3049786
Are you talking about Trump ? Because he doesn't give a shit about america. He only care about being the president and he will use nationalism for that. (Not just Trump tho, i believe that most politicians hate their own countries.)

Why do commies hate freedom?

>>3048234
Over-centralization was a problem but there's no avoiding the fact that there's probably going to be issues with getting some foods when much of the country is tundra, taiga, or desert, rainfall is unpredictable in the vast interior, and winters in much of the country are long, cold, and dark.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_Soviet_Union

>>3044915
Oh yeah you forgot to mention that Yeltsin was a buffoon who saw living conditions collapse and death rates soar with the onset of glorious capitalism. I'm not even communist and I know this.

>>3044869
As a citizen of an ex-communist country I can confirm that.
Everybody looks nostalgically to the communist past. We want dictatorships, but now with extra Coca Cola and HBO.

People look nostalgically at the past because the world in general was less degenerate. My country looks with nostalgia at the fascist regime now, and everyone talks about how great things were back then with less crime and drugs and gangs even tho nobody liked it at the time and sure as hell nobody would actually support it if it came back.

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ffs every time I see one of these threads I'm not sure if you'll are retarded, haven't read anything about communism or just full on trolling

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>>3043473
>/pol/ seems somewhat contained

>>3048618

A nation state is "a sovereign state whose citizens or subjects are relatively homogeneous in factors such as language or common descent." Whether that sovereignty is nominal or not is irrelevant given that while the Soviet Union as a whole cannot be described in the above terms, the individual partitions can be. Remember that US tribes are considered to have sovereignty, even though they do not have foreign policy.

>>3048609

The market driven purchase and sale of goods and services exists in every society. Black markets arise wherever there is not an official market for something that is in demand. Because of this, capitalism does not require explicit government backing. The weight of evidence in favor of this is enormous.

>>3048623

The USA has done a pretty good job of syncretizing its populace, and that is determined to a large extent by immigration and the resultant lack of traditional cultural bases to compete with the dominant culture. Culture warriors will dispute this, but the vast majority of Americans identify as just that.

>>3045061
>soulless cultural materialism.

I mean you say that but communists censor artists and destroy traditional cultures, so it's not like they are any good

>>3043637

You seriously count Cuba as a "good country prior to Communism"? Unless you were an upper class Cuban or an American tourist it was literally worse than a shithole.