What do you think caused the late bronze age collapse around

Just a wild guess, what if natural bronze reserves become exhausted? Imagine if we used all of the oil and collapsed into mad max rapecuckery?

>>3032217
tin was more scarce and there were long trade routes to get to it

>>3032211
>Lydia during 1250 bc

The fuck am I reading?

>>3032211
literally science fiction

>>3032281
That picture?

Yes

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>>3032217
>natural bronze reserves

>>3032217
Sigh...

>>3032217
I kek'd

>>3032217
>natural bronze reserves
Anon, I...

>>3032217
You mean tin and copper?
Yeah tin was imported from as far as from British Islands and Scandinavia.
Obviously by sea routes.
It was era of global trade that bring peace and prosperity to middle eastern countries and overpopulation to north ones.
Add also long time of peace and wealth make your citizens unable or unwilling to stand up and fight(over reliance on mercenaries from barbarian tribes who switch sides).
Egypt resisted because it has national army and even then it got hit hard. Also it has their own sufficient food production - not hooked on cheap grain from Black Sea coast.

Regardless of the initial circumstances I think we can all agree that Greeks and Italians made it worse.
Very ironic that modern day Greeks and Italians call Germanics barbarians.

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>>3032211
>what do you think the world would look like today if it never happened?
Today? No idea.

What it would look like if it didn't happen? Ancient China.

Niggas will make bronze objects /so good, that even when steel rolled by, they still used them.

>>3032211
Most likely climate reasons have started it.

As for how it would look like, you would have to start thinking with considering which countries were destroyed by it, and how their prolonged existence would affect the world.

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>>3032631

>>3032636

>movement to Etruria

This will trigger Italians to no end

>>3032643
Its fake

>>3032565
You have any more info on those points or some site links and/or books I could read?

>>3032643
There DNA evidence that Etruscans were from Anatolia or something

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>>3032217
>natural bronze reserves

>>3032981
No, it's not, all latest studies proved that they were Europeans

>>3032636
>movements to Sardinia and Sicily

Whoever made this map is a cretin with no knowledge of those regions' prehistory

>>3032249
India and Western Europe were prime for getting Tin.

>>3032211
Eurangutans.

>>3032636
>>
And migrations and invasions were caused by climate change.

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>>3032987

Yeah

>>3033113
Were they the Shardana and Shekelesh?

>>3032582
Everyone calls Germans barbaric.

What's ironic is calling other, older parts of the med barbaric.

There is a good book called 1177 B.C: The Year Civilization Collapsed that I recommend to read.

But basically

1) Unusual periods of drought

2) High concentration of earth quakes

3) These problems caused greater wars, famines and plagues

4) Sea peoples

Any one of these on its own wouldnt have caused the collapse (Sea People raids were probably not the most important factor) but with so many events occurring simultaneously, it produced a disaster that exasperated other disasters and reduced the ability to deal with the local crisis.

A what if is hard to imagine but its interesting to note that Tin and Lapis from Afghanistan was being imported to the middle east, so the ancient world was a very interconnected place.

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>>3033139
Possibly, they dressed in a similar fashion and the apogee of the Sard civilization coincides with the Shardana expansion

The sword type they sued also is of Sicilian type and a Sicilian sword was found in the uluburun shipwreck

>>3032994

Nah and anyway Southern Europeans hail from Anatolia anyhow

>>3033185
>Nah

Nah what?

Am I supposed to take such an argument seriously?

>Southern Europeans hail from Anatolia anyhow

Yes, 7000 years before the Etruscans appeared, that's like saying Europeans come from Africa

>>3032981

Yeah a very long time ago, far longer than this period of human history.

>>3033188

There's actually no genetic studies on Etruscans, Romans or anything relevant there's no hard proof one way or the other yet.


Besides, a Hungary scenario where conquerors leave behind language but less so genes is also possible. I don't believe that though, I think Etruscans left behind a huge steaming load of haplogroup J which is not and can not be of Neolithic origin.

>>3033220
Your "belief" counts nothing

And yes, studies have of course been made on Etruscans' genetics.

Also, Etruscan culture itself is clearly autochthonous, there's a great continuity between the Villanovian period (1000-750 bc) and early Etruscan period, zero signs of destruction or invasion or of pacific colonization/migration

>>3033240

Only high resolution autosomal DNA studies work and there isn't a single one and if the Hungary scenario where a non-patriarchal foreign elite dominated but did not aggressively spread their genes is true then genetics can tell us nothing about Etruscan origins just as Hungarian DNA tells is nothing about their linguistic origins.

Still leaves the question why J which can not be Neolithic is so frequent in Italy.

>>3033259
Haplogroups are irrelevant.

And again, if there was even a small scale migration we'd know, because contemporary small migrations such as the Phoenician one to Sicily, Sardinia, Spain and North Africa have loads of evidence

>>3033267

You lied about the genetic studies so you're probably lying about archeology too. Italians are pathetic.

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>>3032217
natural bronze reserves

>>3033285
You lost your cool, you outed yourself as a turkroach.

I didn't like about the genetic studies and you've also implicitly stated your ignorance on Etruscan archaeology.

So, being an ignorant, you just voiced your uneducated opinion to fuel your nationalistic ego.

>>3033296

Archaeology is often politically motivated regardless of the country.

Not a Turk just think it's pathetic how Italians can't come to terms with being a bunch of mutts.

Do link these studies you're talking about.

>>3033312
You're clearly a biased idiot, and when facts have been brought in front of you, you deny them because you can't accept losing an argument.

>>3033324

You have no facts. You lied about the genetic studies.

>>3032211
The sea people would still be raping today

>>3033330
http://www.academia.edu/2186094/with_S._Stoddart_Indigenous_Political_Dynamics_and_Identity_from_a_Comparative_Perspective_Etruria_and_Latium_vetus_in_E._Alberti_S._Sabatini_Eds._Exchange_Networks_and_Local_Transformations_Oxbow_Books_Oxford_p.117-133_in_press_

Read this

>>3033330
Here's the genetic study

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0055519

I read a suggestion once that the pre-collapse civilizations wrote with logograms and ideograms, and the collapse and loss of literacy cleared the way for the rises of phoneme-based writing. Meanwhile China which did not experience the collapse continued to use its logogram-based writing system.

>>3033370

Not autosomal or even Y-DNA and anyway like I said a Hungary scenario can't be excluded by any DNA results.

I think when the first real studies done on Etruscans will be enough to prove the invasion though.

>>3033391
From what I know, only the Greeks lost writing. The Canaanites/Phoenicians already developed an alphabet before the collapse

>>3033399
So you have no evidence at all to support your claim and just support your theory without having read a single word about Etruscan archaeology?

What a clown.

>>3033423

I know that Etruscans showed up after the bronze age collapse and they had heavy Aegaen influence.

I also know that the Lemnian language of Lemnos is clearly related to Etruscan.

Not much else needs to be known about the subject.

>>3033435
>after the Bronze age collapse

You mean 4 centuries after the Bronze age Collapse


>had heavy Aegean influence

citation needed

>Lemanian

More recent than the first Etruscan written documents by almost two centuries

>>3032670
This one>>3033160
Its pretty decent and fairly new.
I seen PDF floating somewhere but sadly can not find it now.
But consider following.
>Bronze Age world was fairly well connected with heavy reliance of trade not only for strategic resources but also common goods, raw resources and food
>heavy reliance on sea trade routes
>population migration, either as PoWs and slaves and as mercenaries, traders and workers
>population rise thank to age of peace and stability which also start overburdening of local environment, as need for wood and oil/olives increase dramatically - which lead to cutting of woods and increase of olive orchards, and this lead to dramatically increased soil erosion
>reliance of food transports from Black Sea coast, the area that was hit heavy by some sort of pestilence(?) and suddenly lose most of population, which lead to shortage of food in core countries
>climatic changes, drought and earthquakes, probably caused by Sun activity and changes in local environments, stripping forests, planting grain
>exhausting tin reserves as it was lost in the process of reusing bronze tools and weapons
>switch in military warfare from noble charioteers to mass fielded armed with cheap mass produced casted bronze weapon infantry comprised by not small number of mercenaries and foreigners
>there is also some probability that some sort of disease spread and wipe out some part of population, especially elites concentrated in cities which lead to losing knowledge, chain of command and social cohesion which make enemy intrusion much more successful as local population was weakened(kind of what happened in Americas on much greater scale)
>Egypt can resist because it have sufficient food production, strong control of their own transport route and keep their rulers and elites more or less intact

There is also point that Bronze Age collapse happen alongside of early Vedic period in India and Aryan 'invasion'.

>>3032593

that looks like it's modern, christ