>mfe reading about the 9th army and 12th army of the wehrmacht

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The Sixth Army also is a sad story.

>Taking Stalingrad, the fighting is tough, but they're making progress
>Command neglects the defensive lines around them
>Reds wipe out the Romanians that were holding the flanks and completely surround the city
>Instead of punching through enemy lines and getting the men out, Hitler is convinced by the Luftwaffe that the Sixth Army can survive by dropping supplies by air
>Surprise: they can't because the Luftwaffe lost too many aircraft against the Britbongs
>728,000 men lost their lives
>After their defeat, Hitler called them weaklings and cowards even though it was his decision that led them to their deaths

>>3001098
what did we learn children?
germans are tactical retards

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>>3001141
Yeah, let's just pretend that Manstein, Guderian, Rundstedt, and countless other Germans commanders both in WWII and throughout history never existed.

>>3001151
wasnt enough when hitler was a brain dead retard when it came to tactics
never let g*rmans be in charge of logistics either, they fuck that up too

>>3001138
I sure his condemnation was intended to be temporary, and he intended to be like "I was just trying to convince you we can still win, the sixth was actually PRIME EVROPE."

hahaha when will germs learn

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>>3001151
Guderian pretty much invented mechanized warfare, the man was a fucking genius tactician. If it weren't for Hitler and corruption with the General Staff of the German Army, he could've done more to help the Wehrmacht in those crucial months after Stalingrad.

Stormniggers will never admit it but Hitler was the worst fucking thing to happen to the German Army, all the talent wasted....

Whoops. Guess they shouldn't have jewishly violated NAP and waged a war of industrial genocide against an entire subset of the white race. None of this is sadder than the siege of St. Petersburg. Or more pathetic than the gutless Allies and their repeated betrayals- the first proper blooding of the Wehrmacht should've been in the Sudetenland.

Leave it to the faggot Huns to ruin Christianity, ruin monarchism, ruin nationalism, and to ruin the EU and embrace Islam the second they're let off the leash. Faggot Stalin should've taken off the kiddy gloves and gotten rid of them for good.

>>3001138
the 6th army was destroyed multiple times, i dont think they were shamed, they wouldnt reestablish it otherwise

>>3001185
hitler was a socialist retard
if he never had an autistic fit then Britain would have kept his empire

Tfw no anne frank gf

>>3001185
>Hitler was the worst fucking thing to happen to the German Army, all the talent wasted....
He was the worst thing to happen to Germany overall

>>3001199
Fuck off with your shitty meme. She isn't even attractive.

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>>3001138
>728,000 men lost their lives
6th army had 246k troops at Stalingrad

>>3001141
No way open borders and free welfare for millions of male migrants was a great tactic

>>3001325
I was talking total losses on the Axis side, including Italian, Romanian, Hungarian, and other Germans not attached to the Sixth Army.

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>muhh poor german soldiers dindu nufin
Wehrnggers need to die

>>3001581
There's no doubt Germans committed terrible crimes during WWII. But so did the Allies. It's war, there are no rules.

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>>3001587
>It's war, there are no rules
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907

>>3001587
>Comparing industrial genocide to firebombing

Stormfag/10

>>3001591
Wow, a bunch of arbitrary rules made by a bunch of bureaucrats who had never seen the horrors of modern warfare. You would be surprised how fast people abandon their honor when confronted with the situations that those soldiers faced.

>>3001593
I'm not even talking about the firebombing. I'm talking about the rapes, the murder of civilians, the complete destruction of entire communities. Both sides committed these crimes.

>>3001605
Even if the allies had committed twice as many crimes and killed twice as many innocents, it wouldn't come close to moral equivalency for a regime that wanted to:

Wipe out several ethnicities
Enslave and work to death several countries worth of people
Strip a generation of children from their parents
Suppress partisans by eradicating villages
Recruit scum like Oskar dirgelwanger, and then empower him
Create a global empire based on pseudoscience, economic parasitism (see tooze's wages of destruction), and the rejection of any pre fuhrer morality

Need I go on?

>>3001613
I'm going to guess that you've never stood in a soldier's boots. When you get right down to it, all those Wehrmacht soldiers were fighting for was their country and their people. Does that make them any different from the Soviets or the Americans or the British or the French? When you're in that environment, with death around every corner, sitting on the other side of every hill, it doesn't matter whether your actions are good or evil. All that matters is living, and coming back alive to your family and friends in the end. What I'm trying to say is that soldiers are judged based on the infantile concept of right and wrong by people who have never been in their position. War transcends right and wrong, there's no morality to it, just the living and the dead.

>>3001194
>hitler was a socialist retard
t. american that thinks privatization of industry is socialism

>>3001636
>tactical nihilism
>soldiers know no morality, even though Germans consciously treated different groups better or worse depending on if they felt like following the conventions that day
>most of the killings were done by non Wehrmacht units, but were sanctioned by the heer

You're really using the "war is rough, so even our purposefully genocidal actions are ok even though they often served just to worsen partisan situations and make the world hate us" arguement?

Do you want to claim that operation cottbus was about soldiers worrying about death any day, that the liquidation of the polish upper class was about the average soldier, or that the einzastsgruppen served a legitimate military purpose?

Your weak tactical nihilism and moral relativism is a shitty defense, and you know it.

>>3001636
Reddit will be better for you sweetie

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>>3001605
>You would be surprised
>Im a soldierbruh itotally played COD bruh
>how fast people abandon their honor when confronted with the situations that those soldiers faced.
>like when the nazis started bombing Belgrade for no reason and without a declaration of war
>and yet Werhboos complain about Dresden

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>>3001636
>Wehrmacht soldiers were fighting for was their country and their people
That's why they attacked Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway? Really makes you think

>>3001661
Like I said, when your life is hanging by a thread, you're not going to give two shits about what happens to a bunch of villagers who may or may not have been planting mines in the nearby swamps. You clearly don't understand what it's like to fight in a war where every person you meet along the way could be plotting to kill you and your entire squad the moment you turn your back.

>>3001664
Thanks, sweetie, much love to you MWAH

>men of the wehrmacht were evil
Proceeds to tell us how evil the nazi regime in general is. Every nazi was in the wehrmacht but not every man in the wehrmacht was a nazi. Why is this so hard for people to grasp

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>>3001605
>Both sides committed these crimes.
>implying the Allies massacred millions of people of certain ethnicity to exterminate them
>it was war it's totally okay to slaughter whole villages cause hurr so grim
Not going to sugar coat war but even the 2nd most barbaric soviet army doesn't even come close to what the Germans did.

>>3001677
>Like I said, when your life is hanging by a thread, you're not going to give two shits about what happens to a bunch of villagers who may or may not have been planting mines in the nearby swamps.
LOL that's from that shitty movie a few years back and this is not what happened on the Eastern front.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolaev_massacre

>>3001677
>You clearly don't understand what it's like to fight in a war where every person you meet along the way could be plotting to kill you and your entire squad the moment you turn your back.
Well said fellow marine brother. I sarved in 666 Marines SS batalion and I know that war is hell. SAMPER WI FI

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>>3001636
>Wehrmacht soldiers were fighting for was their country and their people
So who was attacking them on their country? And how did the war end?

>>3001677
>doesn't address the broadly genocidal nature of the Reich
>doesn't address the non military low threat massacres
>doesn't address the ss extermination units
>doesn't address generalplan ost or the hunger plan

The vague shield of "war is rough, so all rules go out the window and all soldiers become genocidal sociopaths, which is not morally judgable" is bullshit.

Americans who fought in fallujah would not have been justified in starving the city, executing all non combatants, throwing the residents in lethal concentration camps, or planning to raze then colonize the area.

>>3001686
The "clean" Wehrmacht aided the ss and extermination groups, and conducting horrifying massacres on the eastern front. They also implicitly supported the hunger plan.

>>3001605
you are an edgy underaged lower than avarage IQ individual, leave or get banned

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>>3001605
Literally you right now.

>>3001687
You're comparing the Red Army to the SS. The standard armies of both sides were mostly innocent of what history accuses their governments of.

>>3001695
Don't blame the soldiers for what they were told to do. Your average German soldier didn't give the order to invade Poland, he just obeyed it because that is his job.

>>3001696
Well said, you've clearly been in their shoes and know what conditions they went through. You are hereby certified to pass judgment on all soldiers from every war.

>>3001720
Are you arguing that one can't pass judgement on a group that aided and abetted multiple simultaneous genocides without having been in their shoes? That's top tier moral relativism.

It would mean for instance, that the nazis had no right to judge Jews, never having been. Jewish in Europe. Or that I couldn't judge you personally based on you 10" long swastiska patterned dragon dildo.

Ironically, hitler & his crew of barbarians detested this sort of relativism with a genocidal passion

>>3001720
They alway had a chance to get captured and even to enter some of the anti-hitlerite German units that were formed you nigger.

>>3001739
He's on a muh clean Wehrmacht, muh soldiers are the only ones who can judge war, tactical nihilism, morally relativistic bender.

Nothing you say will get through to him, because he can always say " but maybe Hans from Frankfurt is just a tortured soul you callous anti genocide anons can't understand"

>>3001730
>Are you arguing that one can't pass judgement on a group that aided and abetted multiple simultaneous genocides without having been in their shoes?
Yeah, I am.
>It would mean for instance, that the nazis had no right to judge Jews, never having been Jewish in Europe.
Correct.
>Ironically, hitler & his crew of barbarians detested this sort of relativism with a genocidal passion
You don't say? Hitler was a literal fucking retard who started the most destructive war in human history over his own perverted views of racial supremacy. Blame Hitler all you want, but don't blame the soldiers for following the orders they were given.
>>3001739
It's a lot harder than that. You would simply drop your weapon and give up on your own government that had revitalized your nation? The Wehrmacht soldiers didn't know about the genocides and the horrors of the camps. The most they saw of it was captured soldiers being sent West in shackles. They didn't think anything else of it because it wasn't their job to.

>>3001636
>invade countries without war declaration and enslave and murder the population
>"we were just defending our fatherland!"
Stormfags logic

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>>3001141
Nah Germans are Tactical masters but strategic mongs.
Anglos are vice versa so Anglo always wins.
Strategy>Operation>Tactic

>>3001636
Finngols managed to be pretty moral in WW2.

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>>3001767
Yeah, they were totally good guys, especially when they would prop up dead Soviets as scarecrows.
>>3001757
Like I said, don't blame the soldiers for the high command's crimes.

>>3001753
>clean Wehrmacht
>moral relativism to the point of devaluing all morals

The last refuge of stormfags.

>>3001753
>They didn't think anything!!!111!!
Things like Barbarossa degree were top secret amirite?

>>3001772
>Dont blame soldiers for crimes they commited

>>3001772
>Like I said, don't blame the soldiers for the high command's crimes.
So firing squads consisted of staff officers?

>>3001772
>We were just following orders!

>>3001720
>The standard armies of both sides were mostly innocent
No. This has been proven wrong countless times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Wehrmacht#The_myth_debunked

>>3001782
>So firing squads consisted of staff officers?
They consisted of soldiers who did what they were told, because that's their job.
>>3001779
Bingo.
>>3001774
Ok.
>>3001773
>muh morals that I've developed in my clean, perfect suburban life
The last refuge of people who've never had to struggle for anything in their life.
>>3001785
Yep.
>>3001792
Investigations done by the victors, and books written by those who've never fired a shot in anger in their entire life.

>>3001772
>Like I said, don't blame the soldiers for the high command's crimes.
Orders don't make killing of civilians legal. Germans firing at them broke the German law and their oath.
>Ich schwöre Treue der Reichsverfassung und gelobe, dass ich als tapferer Soldat das Deutsche Reich und seine gesetzmäßigen Einrichtungen jederzeit schützen, dem Reichspräsidenten und meinen Vorgesetzten Gehorsam leisten will.

>>3001809
>that guy from history class
>"actually, professor..."

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>>3001809
>Investigations done by the victors,
>hurr durr ad hominems
>belegen neuere historische Forschungen ab den 1980er und 1990er Jahren anhand von Zeugenaussagen, Prozessunterlagen, Feldpostbriefen, persönlichen Tagebüchern und weiteren Dokumenten die unmittelbare und systematische Beteiligung der Wehrmacht an vielen Massakern und Kriegsverbrechen, speziell in Ost- und Südosteuropa, sowie am Holocaust

Actually most of the research is done by Germans i.e. not the viktors and a good chunk of is based on diaries and letters by Germans who fought. So yeah you just showed that you neither understand how historical science in general work nor how research on the Wehrmacht particularly is conducted.

You can shit post the whole day but it's not going to work here since I have been in the archives and read those letters.

>>3001827
>you neither understand how historical science in general work nor how research on the Wehrmacht particularly is conducted.
No, but I know how soldiers think.
>You can shit post the whole day but it's not going to work here since I have been in the archives and read those letters.
Oh nice, I'm very impressed. Have you ever had a human's life in the palm of your hands before?

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>>3001843
>hurr durr history is shit and reading is for faggots
>war so grim and edgy like me XD
Pathetic bro. Your argument was that "history is written by the viktors" which is theoretically and empirically bullshit and you took that quote from Braveheart.

History is an empirical science; in this case based on the accounts of the soldiers you care so much about. If you really wanna go around and honor them you should take what they wrote seriously, read it, study it, learn from it. But you chose to shit on their history cause you are an illiterate lazy ass stormfag who is afraid of the truth and whose sole historical education are war novels and /pol/ macros. And you don't even speak German.

>>3001185
>Stormniggers will never admit it but Hitler was the worst fucking thing to happen to the German Army, all the talent wasted....
This
He fucked Germany beyond repair

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>>3001843
>Soldier Z - 'I killed a Frenchman from behind with a shot. He was riding a bike.'
>Interrogator - 'From close to?'
>Soldier Z - 'Yeah.'
>Interrogator - 'Did he want to take you prisoner then?'
>Soldier Z - 'Naah, I wanted his bike!'

Forced confessions! Nothing it true but Nazi propaganda!

>>3001843
>Have you ever had a human's life in the palm of your hands before?
This reeks of cringe and autism.

>le history is written by the victors meme
When will stormfags learn that this myth doesn't exist anymore?

>>3001857
I've made it clear in my previous posts that I'm not a stormfag, I don't condone the orders given by the OKH or the Wehrmacht. What I'm saying is that the common soldier should not be held guilty for what he was ordered to do, on pain of death.
>>3001867
I've never said that these things didn't happen. I'm saying that we shouldn't blame the soldiers.

>>3001886
The common soldier is as guilty as his superior. Whenever you carry out an order you carry it out with your own personal responsibility.

>>3001886
If you think that blame and guilt are worthwhile categories for historians, you don't understand what historical science is.
Also there is literally no doubt that they are LEGALLY guilty since they broke their vows and the German law as was stated here >>3001811
You just chose to ignore that argument. Now please post something autistic in the vein of inter arma enim silent leges.

>>3001892
This. And this was part of the Treueid they all swore.

>>3001892
You've never been there. When given the order to shoot that bastard in the head, you do it, no questions asked, because he would do the same to you if given the chance.
>>3001896
As I said in one of my first posts, there is no law in war. It's useless to try and justify what happens. War is the complete breakdown of societal and diplomatic thought, and yet we still hold it to the same standards.

>>3001904
>Now please post something autistic in the vein of inter arma enim silent leges.
>there is no law in war.
So why were they following order again?

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>>3001904
>You've never been there
Neither have you. Stop saying this like it is an argument. I know a lot more books than you about that stuff, plus some primary sources.
You have no privileged access to the 3rd Reich just because you are a Nazi.

>>3001581
Who said that? Nobody. Get fucked faggot.

>>3001923
>they did do stuff but it wasn't wrong because after careful study of all wars ever (Age of Empires) I came to the brilliant conclusion that there are now laws in war
>so cold and grim XD

>>3001915
Because if they didn't follow the order, then they'd be just as dead as the other guy.
>>3001921
>I know a lot more books than you about that stuff, plus some primary sources.
Good, you sound like a smart kid, just without any concept of empathy towards a soldier. Just like the hippies who would spit on soldiers as they returned from Vietnam. And obviously I have no privileged access to the Third Reich because there are no WWII veterans on this site. But I have been in the military, and I have seen war, and I have had people die because of my decisions. Call me a Nazi all you want, but at the end of the day, you'll still lie in your warm bed while my best friend is fucking dead. It's been good to talk to you.

>>3001936
You sound like a drunk heinlein. Go jack off to Ernst junger

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>this fucking thread
>Dey wuzz Good honorable soldaten fighting for their country
>Definitely not Nazis, only da ebul SS did war crimes!
>No they were all card-carrying nazis, all of them complicit in warcrimes
>But the allies did X Y and Z!!!!

>>3001904

>that sobbing naked woman trying to shield her baby, would kill you, so you need to shoot her and the baby first

This is what stormcunts actually believe apparently.

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>>3001936
>Because if they didn't follow the order, then they'd be just as dead as the other guy.
Wrong. We have quite a few accounts of people refusing to kill civilians. We don't know of A SINGLE FUCKING ONE who was punished for not killing them. Pic related, get fucked or read a book.
>just without any concept of empathy towards a soldier.
You are the one denying their agency by saying war has no laws and always is essentially the same. Truth is the Germans were especially murderous in WWII. There is simply no serious debate about this. There also is no debate that they were especially murderous in the East. So even in the same war we have the same army on two different fronts behaving radically different. There is a pattern to this and it is enforced by the nazi ideology calling of the extermination of Jews and the killing and/or enslavement of the Slavic peoples. Not all wars are exterminating wars, not all wars are like WWII. War doesn't stay the same and it changes according to ideological, legal, technical, historical and social factors.
>But I have been in the military, and I have seen war, and I have had people die because of my decisions.
Yeah, so have I. I served in 3 different armies in the last 10 years. Shit was dope, I once shot a guy with my M2 and saw his head pop off. Strangely this experience didn't help me read Germany any better. That shit I had to study later.
>there are no WWII veterans on this site
There are some in hundreds, and hundreds of books, articles and documentaries. Listen to them and examine their statement with files from the archives. This is how science works and I posted enough good books on this already. Read them.

>>3001157
They build roads and the autobahn, a really major logistic "building".

>>3001967
The plans were from the Weimar Republic and they funded it with deficit spending.

>>3001957
>Yeah, so have I. I served in 3 different armies in the last 10 years.
t. Lauri Törni

Germans could've taken Moscow if they didn't divert their forces south. But could they've hold the capital from endless stream of Soviet reinforcements from the East is the different story. They should've focused on the capital and treated Soviet prisoners nicely.

>>3001957
>served in 3 different armies
That is illegal in any country.

>>3001809
If your commanding officer gave you an order to take your unit and execute an entire village of men, women, and children, would you do it? Would you be so morally bankrupt to slaughter dozens of innocent noncombatants simply because a man with stripes on his sleeve told you to?

If your answer would be yes, then you are at least as much a criminal as any one of the staff officers to whom you assign the blame for the atrocities of the eastern front. But perhaps not, as you are much guiltier: it was not them who pulled the trigger.

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>>3001605
The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.

>>3002211
The only way I can rationalize this is if he served first in the army of whatever nation he's from, then a UN Peacekeeping Force, then maybe the French Foreign Legion. The order of the last two is interchangeable, and maybe he did some private military contracting. Still doesn't seem especially likely though.

>>3002136
t. cuckold that betrayed his coutry to Hitlerites

>>3002327
>literally fucking SS
>UN Peacekeeping Force

>>3002359
I'm almost certain that the poster to whom I was referring, the one who said that they had served in 3 armies in the last decade, was not in the SS. Of course, this is an assumption you could have reached on your own if you had basic fucking skills in reading comprehension.

>>3002359
He isn't talking about Lauri Törni you dickwad.
>>3002354
t. red cuck

>>3002354
It was a joke you dumbass

>>3002409
t. american that does not understand Finland was at war with Hitler.

>>3001687
>massacred THIER POLISH ALLIES because ???
>shot down american aircraft and executed american riflemen
>had a few hundred thousand soldiers die chasing surrenduring enemies
>massacre anybody who doesnt fellate you before the war, raping your army and causing millions of deaths
>have an island where you starve people to death
It got to the piont where he was ordering the death of classified weapons test operators and the navy just ignored their orders and saved the men.

>>3002422
I'm North European.

Lauri Törni was fucking pardoned by the finnish President for his "crime".

Lauri Törni fought his motherlands enemies (the Reds) wherever he could be it in the German SS or The United States Army.

>>3002480
>fought his motherlands enemies
in army of nation that was at war with his own
got cucked by them in Vietnam

>>3002488
It was moot declaration that which is probably the reason Lauri Törni got pardoned.

>Two super powers are pressuring you to declare war on a dying shithole.

>Finnish Presidents letter to Hitler
Our German brothers-in-arms will forever remain in our hearts. The Germans in Finland were certainly not the representatives of foreign despotism but helpers and brothers-in-arms. But even in such cases foreigners are in difficult positions requiring such tact. I can assure you that during the past years nothing whatsoever happened that could have induced us to consider the German troops intruders or oppressors. I believe that the attitude of the German Army in northern Finland towards the local population and authorities will enter our history as a unique example of a correct and cordial relationship ... I deem it my duty to lead my people out of the war. I cannot and I will not turn the arms which you have so liberally supplied us against Germans. I harbour the hope that you, even if you disapprove of my attitude, will wish and endeavour like myself and all other Finns to terminate our former relations without increasing the gravity of the situation.

The only reason some soldiers died during the Lappland "war" was because soldiers were being jumpy.

>having feels for Germans surviving

Disgusting.

>>3002547
If some soldiers hadn't been so jumpy the German forces would've retreated back to Norway with perhaps a few soldiers surrendering to Finland.

>>3001581
>>3001927
Why are you barging in to defend a point that no one has put into contention? Are you so insecure in your opinion that you have to drag it into discussions of the slightest relevance?

>>3001673
>faggot from a country which doesn't have compulsory army service commenting on shit about army and war

Go be fat behind your desk and shitpost more

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>>3002551
t.Ilya Ehrenberg

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>>3001687
>ov vey dont forget the 60 gorrillion!

>>3002588
they're from /r/sws and /r/badhistory on reddit

if you even talk about the wehrmacht they get butthurt for some reason.

>>3001772
They were already dead by then so who cares

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>>3001581
We can applaud the German Soldiers tactical prowess without praising their crimes you know, no one came out of that war with their hands clean

>the children and wounded manned the artillery while the army crossed the bridge
FUCK

>>3001676
>What is preemptive strike

perhaps they shouldn't have allowed the war to happen then

>>3003022
>implying the soviets didnt straight up invade finland

>>3001720
Odd how the marines in Fallujah didn't exterminate the population, despite a good amount of the civilians there were insurgents

>>3001772
I didn't know Goring was in every firing squad

>>3001809
Who knew that even if you commit war crimes and burn down villages, your hands are clean because you were just following orders!

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>>3003939
lol thats what we want you to think

>>3003758
wew

>>3001886
Why the fuck do court martials exist then?

Were you really in the military? Are you so far up your own ass that you think anything in war is justified just because "muh soldiers *tugs on cigarette* *drinks 8th glass of whiskey* you don't understand war, kid" and "muh orders"? You've refused to listen to what a number of posters who have given you empirical sources have said because "they never fired a shot in their life."

You don't belong on /his/ or in any real historical debate

"Just following orders" is the adult version of "John made me do it" tbqh

>>3002146
you are a retard, theyd get stalingraded in 1941 if they left army group south on its own, they needed help, stupid stormnigger

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>>3002146
>Germans could've taken Moscow if they didn't divert their forces south.
>Zhukov, we have lost at Kiev, this is a disaster!
>Don't worry, Tovarisch, intelligence has informed us that they are sending the bulk of their southern front to Moscow
>What, why the fuck, Zhukov?
>Because these fucking retards think life is video game or something and if you take their capital then we automatically surrender or get some disadvantage or whatever.
>Cue largest encirclement in world history
Yeah, take Moscow, now have fun fucking dealing with logistical problems (horrible roads, fucking horses used for transport) and Soviet partisans constantly sabotaging your shit.

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>>3001581
mfw op lil' saturn

>>3006323
The Napoleonic Ears put it much more eloquently:

after the French seized Moscow, the Russians responded with
>do you think we're playing chess?

>>3001138
Saw an interview on tv with some old germans who fought in the 6th in stalingrad.

>situation has been getting worse and worse
>it seemed all pointless but they continued to hold out because orders and hope
>they've eaten the horses, ate dogs and worms, one guy saw german soldiers eating the corpse of a russian because food was running out
>still fighting with everything they had and hoping to be able to fight their way out or getting releaved
>one of the guys interviewed was sitting with a few soldiers at the table listening to radio broadcast about the situation in the war
>"the 6th army under general paulus in stalingrad has been completely wiped out"
>that basically means they've been completely given up
>one of the soldiers quietly stands up
>walking out of the door he takes out his pistol
>shoots himself in the head outside

>>3001581
>please sign my nipples but dont tell anyone im a big fan

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>>3001772
You stupid cunt. Only the finns did that.

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>>3001792
Winners really do write the history books.
>pic related is you

>>3006555

>winners write the history books

Is that why there are hundreds of books from the German perspective of both wars and Storm of Steel is widely held as THE book on what WW1 was like for soldiers at the front?

>>3002629
Conscription doesn't count as combat experience so unless you're from Ukraine or Turkey you shouldn't be talking shit
t. conscript

>>3006555
Is that why the US literally got Franz Halder to help them write the history of Nazi Germany for them?

>>3006755
Not an argument

>it's a "leftypol get's triggered by non-critical discussion of Nazi germany" episode
Get a life losers!

>>3003968
Not that anon but:
>hans, these men and women have been sabotaging us for weeks and aiding the enemy, they've killed our men and now command wants us to enact justice
Is not the same as
>hans I want you to go over to that village, rape every man, woman, and child at gunpoint, kill them all after, burn their homes to the ground, and salt the earth when you're done because I said so, yeah I'm pulling rank on you fuckboy, what you gonna do, become a traitor?

Not sympathizing for the wehrmacht at all here but there is a distinct difference in presentation and circumstance.

>>3008621
Oskar direlewanger, operation cottbus, einszatzgruppen death squads.

>>3008692
completely ignoring my point there, here's your (you)

>>3001098
Read up on the battle for Mosow. So many russians died to thwart the germans plans for just one day more so Moscow could be saved. And it eventually worked too!

>>3001185
>the man was a fucking genius tactician
I bet massed tank starts can work without tactical air superiority guise!!! xD

>>3008770
German tanks were the best

The 19th and 15th is rather sad as well.
>join up with the germans at first because they freed you from the russians
>turns out theyre kinda cunts as well, but at least they give you weapons to fight the reds
>slowly get pushed further back from Leningrad every day
>give it all you have and fight to death dor every inch of land, just to keep out the russians from your fatherland
>germans keep showering you with medals and other awards, but dont give you tanks or other needed equipment, even though the german general put in charge says that the Latvians would be much more useful than they are now, if better equipment is recieved
>always fight outnumbered and end up with a better kill/death ratio that the enemy
>the 15th gets smashed to bits finally and is called back to Germany for "rearming"
>the remnants are actually ordered to protect Berlin
>the 19th gets encircled in a small sliver of their fatherland together with Army Group "Kurland"
>repell 5 large soviet offensives
>refuse to surrender to the soviets together with the other german divisions, go full partisan
>allies make contact with you after the war and tell you to "hold on", that theyre coming to free you
>they keep telling them this for years
>keep fighting against the soviets as partisans up untill 1960, when they get finally defeated
>allies never came
>the remnants of the 15th, that were left in Berlin, mostly surrendered to the Americans, some went out with a bang against the soviets
>the ones who surrendered are now repurposed as guards in the Nurnberg trials and used for post-war american missions

Latvia lost more people (550k) than the Americans and French combined, a 1/4th of the population. Just for a pointless war that we didnt want to participate in.

>>3009857
Tactically perhaps, not strategically.

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I will bet you that not one in five people who go on about Moscow being a useless goal realises that it was the central communications and transport hub for the entire country. It wasn't 1812.

There is also no way of knowing what the reaction to the capture of the capital may have been.

See pic related.

>>3001613
Isn't that basically Canada and the natives, though?

I mean, if we want to start machine-gunning Canadians we don't really need to justify it. I just want to be sure

>>3001185
Hitler would have been hailed as the greatest German since Bismarck if he had died after the annexation of Czechoslovakia

>>3001141
>hitler gives shitty order
>"germans are shitty tacticians"

Fucking retards don't realize how much power this incredibly deluded man had. He had incredible generals who were holding out on two fronts for years. He gets drugged up, paranoid cuz of Italian dumbfucks, fires generals who were forced into exile by the incredobly extensive SS, forces remaining generals to follow shitty orders, lest they end up the same. The only reason D-Day worked is because the Luftwaffe was obliterated , and he forced his armies to stay at Calais even AFTER the landings becayse he was a mental case. Plus he was Austrian.

>>3002730
No. Those are actions of evil. The Germans frankly should have been wiped out. Luckily they're idiots and wiping themselves out right now, so there's that at least.

They were always cunts, going all the way back to asking Romans to help them and slaughtering them in their sleep.

>>3010325
That was because he hadn't been drugged up and gone fucking nuts from paranoia yet

>>3010339
>Those are actions of evil.
The Holocaust unfortunately never happened. Had Hitler had the balls to do what was necessary, we would have far fewer problems today.

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>>3001138
The saddest part however is pic related. What they died for.

>>3010358
>unfortunately never happened
Oh boy, grab your tinfoil hats boys.

>>3010362
I can't imagine how bitter that would make me feel, remembering countless friends I would have seen die, while thinking that I do it for something greater, only to be told that. I feel bad for all the German soldiers desu

>>3002296
I imagine you'd be executed for insubordination if you didn't, and that's a very valid reason to follow through with any command.

>>3002296
"I would rather have myself executed and my name and family dishonored than follow orders just like everyone does"
wow, we got a hero here, I wonder how many kids you have already carried out of burning buildings in your arms?

>>3010745
>>3010757
Show me a single case where a German soldier refused to kill an unarmed civilian and was executed. Hell, the nonshooters I've read about weren't even reassigned.

>>3006555
I like Downs Syndrome kids, they always seem to be having a Really good time.

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>>3001098

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>>3001138

>>3001883
>Doesnt exist
what ended the war Kids? Right, the bombs !

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I'm already a demon.

>>3001194
>making the state of your empire dependent on the occurrence of some German's spergability
Don't.

>>3006249
My coffeemaker has one job: to make coffee. If that thing would start an ethical and moral debate about crushing the beans to make some coffee everytime I wanted some, I would not keep that coffeemaker.

>>3008574
>episode
Mate, it seems that was the content of the last 3 seasons.

>>3010280
Holy shit, that is interesting. I just read up on Latvian partisans. I did not know that Western spies were involved that early into the cold war.

>>3010922
>western spies
Those werent even spies. Just allied command contacting our partisans through the radio to tell us to "hold on" that a fleet is coming to aid them.

In reality Ch*rchill had already "given" us to the soviets and it was just a shitty scam to make us think that help would come

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>>3010745
really makes me think

>>3010745
>>3010757
>>3010986
Read the last post I linked you damn Krauts. Every single person that pulled the trigger on a noncombatant is a criminal and deserves nothing but damnation. They didn't have to slaughter those people.

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>>3001185
>Stormniggers will never admit it but Hitler was the worst fucking thing to happen to the German Army, all the talent wasted....

Nazism in general was the worst fucking thing to happen to the German Army. It turned them into a army of fanatics blind to what was painfully obvious to the rest of the world and robbed them of any moral justification their cause might've had.

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>>3002730

Finland pretty much did nothing wrong Tbh

>>3011493
t. self-righteous retard

We would be living in a communist dystonia if it wasn't for Hitler. And for every mediocre military decision, he made great ones too.

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>>3010815
>>3010816

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>>3011502
>We would be living in a communist dystonia if it wasn't for Hitler. And for every mediocre military decision, he made great ones too.

Eastern Europe spent 40 years living in a Communist dystopia BECAUSE of Hitler you dumb Hun-loving nigger.

friendly reminder for all wehraboos that hitler
>was a drug addict
>was a degenerate
>was generally an all around idiot at everything he did
>made nationalism a taboo in europe
>motivated zionism
>lead to the strengthening and expansion of bolshevism through his stupidity
>crippled germany

>>3011506
Retard, the communists would have taken Germany had Hitler not defeated them democratically.

Even if you reject that the commie fucks were planning on invading Europe in 1941, you still can't say that Hitler didn't save western civilization.

>>3011515
>muh Hitler was a single-testicled male prostitute negro rothschild meth addict with a scat/incest fetish theory
It's very revealing how seven decades after the war we still need this level of propaganda and hysteria.

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>>3011519
>Retard, the communists would have taken Germany had Hitler not defeated them democratically.

In no way did Hitler defeat the Communists "democratically". His entire party's platform was based on the illegitimacy of the Weimar Republic.

>commie fucks were planning on invading Europe in 1941

The Soviets had the shit kicked out of them attacking Finland of all places in '40 and were still recovering from the purges of the 30s, they weren't going to be invading anyone anytime soon. What conquests they did make prior to 1941 were ones enabled by Nazi Germany.

>>3011560
>His entire party's platform was based on the illegitimacy of the Weimar Republic.
Half of his appeal was not letting Germany fall to the communists. It was a political life and death struggle between the Nationalists and Bolsheviks for a decade that Hitler barely won.

>they weren't going to be invading anyone anytime soon
And yet they were massing on the border the largest potential invasion force in history.

Hitler believed that the USSR need only to take the Romanian oil fields to win the war, so obviously he had to act.

>>3010757
Family honor is a spook

>>3002296
>Would you be so morally bankrupt to slaughter dozens of innocent noncombatants simply because a man with stripes on his sleeve told you to?

Are we on the same board? You do understand that this has been done millions of times throughout history, right? Its basically in our DNA to be able to do that.

>>3011489
Who cares. You think war is some clean fun exhibition with rules and guidelines? Sorry that's not what it is, it's a brutal meat grinder and everyone dies. You can complain about "muh war crimes" all you want after the fact but deep down inside all of us we know it could just as well be you doing those acts.

>>3001185
>Guderian pretty much invented mechanized warfare
Who is J. F. C. Fuller?

>>3002629
>My country is so shit we need to force people to join under threat of imprisonment

>>3011773
>The abandonment of any and all pretense of morality
>Sorry kid guess you don't understand conflict only the strong survive heh heh everyone knows that the only thing that matters is the second we exist in and not the future repercussions of our actions
>Implying I'm enough of a cuck to shoot a crying woman in the face if Herr Chadschlieff orders it

Kill yourself and remove your retardation from the gene pool. Humanity will be better for it.

>>3010739
I don't. They deluded themselves into something they were not.

>>3011773
shut up you fucking edgelord. There are many examples of human benevolence in the face of pure horror. you just want to be an edgy faggot

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>>3011773
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Brown_and_Franz_Stigler_incident

>>3013920
>>3013926
Not an Argument.
The Strong live and the Weak perish

>>3013930
So they must have both been very strong to survive?
https://youtu.be/_lp9-cN_Oog

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>>3009857

>>3011663
Wrong, Hitler had to go to war because he had to in order to save Germany's economy. He dug Germany into a hole, made a risky gamble and all of Germany ended up paying for it

>inb4 y-you're a j-jew

Face reality and maybe you can learn from his mistakes nigger

>>3009857
All ten of them. Unless they catch fire.

>>3013944
>One exception means it happened all the time.
Franz Stigler was and still is a traitor

>>3011724
Yes, of course I know it's been done constantly throughout history. But that doesn't make it right.

>>3011773
Obviously it's not a "clean exhibition", I never claimed it was. But actions have consequences and consciously murdering noncombatants carries a heavy one. When you go to war, the world does not stop around you. Every soldier must answer for what he does in wartime.

>>3001138
>Taking Stalingrad, the fighting is tough, but they're making progress

They weren't even close to winning by the time Operation Uranus was launched.

>>3014254
More stale leftypol memes as usual.

Watch this. According to his own words, spoken in private, he and the Soviets both planned for war years prior. There was no way an ultra-nationalist and a communist super-power with shared borders could co-exist regardless of the leadership.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oET1WaG5sFk

>>3008574
>everyone who bash germans and nazis are automatically commie loving alternative /pol/

>>3001185
>Guderian pretty much invented mechanized warfare
that would be Fuller
>>3001185
>the man was a fucking genius tactician
that would be Manstein

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>>3011493
Oh boy the larping jew returns

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>>3017723

What the fuck is he blathering on about?

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>>3017723

Also, I'm not fucking Jewish.

Back to >>>/pol/

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>>3001138

But wait, it gets worse.

>approach supply drop
>find summer clothing, condoms, medals, parts for vehicles that don't work anymore
>tfw manstein's relief effort gets B T F O 30 miles south of stalingrad
>tfw you could've escaped if paulus wasn't a complete cuck and ordered a breakout once surrounded
>tfw manstein's relief attempt got within 30 miles of stalingrad
>tfw you could've escaped if you didn't destroy your "surplus" supply supply depots because there were "rumors" of an imminent escape attempt, therefore leave nothing to ze bolsheviks ja
>tfw you stop saying "gott mitt uns" and start saying "adolf has betrayed us"

>>3013901
Tbh he's not entirely wrong. Anyone whos read ordinary men can understand that its not easy to defy orders in a totalitarian setting

>>3017753
>anyone I don't agree with I send them to /pol/

>>3016969
>two countries bloated with anti-the-other-guy rhetoric and propaganda cannot coexist

what is the cold war

>>3014254
Hitler's plan from the beginning was to go to war with the Soviets. Communism and Fascism/National Socialism are bitter enemies to the end.

>>3018422
>america is the same as Hitler
wew

>>3018501
America is far worse.

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>>3018509
OB
SESS
ED

i think OP was just trying to say how war is fucked and that he feels bad for the soldiers who were fighting

>>3018538
It's a stormfront copy pasta, lurk moar.

>>3001957
>I served in 3 different armies in the last 10 years
why do you feel the need to lie on the internet what do you gain from it?

>>3005609
they did?

>>3018422

one of them was a liberal democracy and they didn't share borders

>>3018538
It wasn't the OP who was arguing for the Wehrmacht.

>>3018543
Fuck you, I'm not stormfront. You leftists are just too removed from the struggles of the average soldier. You claim empathy, but show none of it.

>>3018944
This pasta has been repeatedly crossposted to /pol/ and /k/, I'd prefer if you could confine your Heinlein-centric wet dreams to purely /pol/

>>3018954
This is the typical response of a lefty who can't hide in his safe space anymore.

Either argue or stfu.

>>3018280
On the plus side, condoms for when adolf fucks you over.

>>3018280
the 6th army breaking out of encirclement would be just as catastrophic as slowly crumbling under siege, see Budapest, how many of them made it out alive or faith of most encircled german units

non motorized/mechanized units have little hope of breaking free from a mobile enemy

>>3010321
but that would imply that natives are actual people

>>3018954
To be fair, given the veteran population of /k/ it wouldn't surprise me that a post like the one your referring to and all its variations would be commonplace on /k/

>>3001677
>You clearly don't understand what it's like to fight in a war where every person you meet along the way could be plotting to kill you and your entire squad the moment you turn your back.
Thank you for your service

>>3020648
He's a larper

>>3018954
The archives show one other thread with the same OP, and that was on /k/ after this thread was created
In other words, you're talking out of your ass

>>3001098
thread theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uk2NeKBG5A

>>3010823
>u mad goy?

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>>3013930
Spot on

>>3001843
You do NOT know how soldiers think, shut the fuck up.