>the kingdom of Naples was one of the biggest in Italy and

>>2998240
t.erroni

>>2998240
because aside from naples itself, the entire country was a poor shithole. and naples itself wasn't very affluent either.

>>2998240
>What went wrong and why were they never as important as Venice Florence Milan or the Papal State?
They were more important than Venice,Milan and Florence

>>2998370
in their dreams

I just wonder how the hell doesn't Italy have any Napolitan independence movement

>>2998381
>Dude le art lmao
Naples was bigger and stronger than any of those city states

>>2998240

It was a state segregated fom Sicily when the French lost the island, so it spent centuries being the place in which French-Angevins and Aragonese-Sicilian ambitions collide.
When the Spaniards, as heirs of the Aragonese prevailed, they became masters of the Italian peninsula (I do not mean that they conquered the whole Italy, but they were the major power).

>>2998411
How they gonna get their gibs?

File: 18-07-52-image36851.gif (13KB, 264x261px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 264x261px

>>2998411
We have one. It's just as retarded as Lega Nord, but infinitely less politically relevant.
Here's their website:
sudindipendente superweb.ws

>>2998411
why would ethnic italians want to separate from the italian nation-state?

>>2998542
The comic sans makes it super easy to take seriously.

>>2998430
Then why didn't they conquered/show their power like venice did? It's like you have a big nation that does nothing for their whole history. Seems strange to me tbqh

>>2998542

>Lega Nord
>Retarded

Hi Lefty Pol

>>2998741
Italy's already geoplitically as relevant as iceland, no need to further diminish your already tiny influence, and that's coming from a fucking englishman.

>>2998600
It was an important part of the Spanish monarchy. Where do you think Spain spent all the American gold, if not to keep cities such as Naples?

It's like asking: "If California is so rich and strong, why don't they conquer everything".

>>2998240
>how come they never accomplished something good during their whole history?
Because Feudalism

>>2998912
Actually, thanks to the Constitutions of Melfi, the Kingdom of Sicily (which included Naples) was one of the first European states to go beyond feudalism and into centralization of power in the monarchy.

It was a lack of feudalism and too much centralization that made Naples and Sicily stagnate, in contrast to the extremely descentralized nature of Northern Italian polities.

>>2998240
They were part of Spain for 200 years.

>>2998240
>Italy's already geoplitically as relevant as iceland

It's in the centre of the Mediterranean Sea. Tell me how this is geopolitically irrelevant.

Stupid political class =/= Geopolitical value

>>2998948
This.

Everything Spain touches dies

>>2998411
How could there be an independence movement for the south when the whole macroregion is so far in the red and dependent on the central government they couldn't last a hour by themselves?

>>2998240

they accomplished a bunch of things, but you define accomplishment as building piramids, inventing steam engines and conquering continents, because youre 12

>>2998910
It was independent for most of the middle ages. They had actual conflicts with other italian polities yet they never came up on top.
Don't let the size deceive you: they weren't powerful, only large.

>>2999179
name some of them instead of calling OP underage then.

>>2999183
It was never ruled by anyone of their own. They always had foreign rulers, either Greeks, Lombards, Normans, French, Austriann or Spanish.
The closest they had to a leader that could be considered "South Italian" was Frederick the II, who was born and raised in the territory.

>>2999349
Frederick II is underrated and probably the greatest ever Sicilian.

>>2999349
Might as well say the same about Britain then, it makes right about the same amount of sense.
Besides, what does it matter who their king was? They were still a sovereign polity.

>>2998247
kek

>>2998240
>Then how come they never accomplished something good during their whole history?

Different development. While the north of Italy easily came under the sway of the Franks, the south remained deadlocked between the quarreling Lombard princes in the Apennines and the ever weakening Byzantines along the coast. Then the Muslim pirates came and took over Sicily from the Byzantines. The Lombards hired the pirates to fight one another, but the muslims became bold and raided the Vatican itself in 846. The Lombards ended up paying protection money to the pirates for years. Then came the Normans, who offered their services to the Lombards. Over the next century the Normans had overthrown their Lombard masters, kicked the Byzantines out of Italy for good and took back Sicily from the muslims.

This growing power to the south greatly disturbed the Romans. The Lombard princes of the north were disquieted that their southern cousins had been overthrown. So they organized a coalition. The coalition failed at the Battle of Civitate and the Normans captured the Pope. Rome then turned to political maneuver, above all to prevent any alliance of north and south Italy lest they threaten the Papal State. The Norman House of Hauteville was to be kept on decent terms but diplomatically isolated. This strategy failed spectacularly when the last daughter of the line married the Holy Roman Emperor. When the legitimate imperial line came to an end, the Pope searched for foreign parties to invade and rule the south. They found a French prince, Charles of Anjou. His army marched south from Rome and won, while the old court fled to Aragon. He then went off to campaign in Greece, leaving behind only a small occupation force.

On Easter Monday 1282 a French soldier had harassed a Sicilian woman in a church during the evening prayer service, the vespers. The French garrison on the island was slaughtered. Then the old court came back from Aragon to rule once more.

>>2999584
>soldier harasses sicilian woman, whole island chimps out
>regime change ensues
Something like this apparently happens once a centur in Sicily. Is it actually historical or is it just a motif?

File: Habsburg_Map_1547.jpg (518KB, 1654x1029px) Image search: [Google]

518KB, 1654x1029px

>>2999584
The succeeding centuries would see back and forth wars between the Spanish in Sicily and the French in Naples for control of the entire south region. In the Italian Wars of the Renaissance the Spanish would win a knockout victory, taking not only Naples, but also Milan as well. During this time the Hapsburgs basically had Italy on lockdown. The focus then shifted to pushing back the Ottomans and bringing Protestants back to Rome. Naples served as the principle Spanish shipbuilding center in the Mediterranean and a key recruitment point for troops and sailors.

As had happened before, the region's fate was tied up with that of the foreign ruling dynasty. The region would pass from the Spanish to the Austrians and back again. Then came Napoleon. The region was then reconstituted as the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies.

tl;dr
Very little self rule
Taxes were controlled by foreign kings to fight foreign wars
Local economic boss is mafia
Earthquake and volcano region
Possible soil issues in Calabria and Apuglia

>>2999018
Naples, the economy, native americans, communists, control of the Caribbean, and much more

>>2999584
>>2999680
underrated post

>>2998433
They practically did, owned the southern half plus Milan, the Popes were spaniards for a while and the rest of the northerners were sucking their dicks.

They did beat the french in two wars for it.

>>2999018
Southern Italy was the richest part of the italian peninsula back then, so no.

>>2999682
Same to you with Cuba and the rest of latin america. They all went to shit after the independence.

>>2998557
>italy
>nation-state
>lol.exe

>>2998240
Where kingdoms of northern Italy were all particularly well established whag differs from southern Italy is its conquers actually.

The byzantines held land claims in southern italy up into the 12th century, the Normans in the 13th, muslims and the Lombars before both of them, and the HRE, Spain, France for a bit and actually England all had peices of southern Italy.

While the northern kingdoms of Italy did war on eachother, rarely did we see entire cities looted and sacked or raised like we did in Italy.

The kingdoms of Naples never really seemed to catch a break even up through the late 1400s and 1500s. Naples got the shit end in wars like the Italian/ wars renaissance wars where Northern states such as Milan and Florence were able to cut deals where Naples' cities were sacked by the French army.

>>2999584
this is great but who was the last Hauteville gal? I couldn't find her because I'm dumb.

Freddy 2's mom?

File: Heinrich_VI_-_Konstanze_von_Sizilien.jpg (77KB, 537x600px)

77KB, 537x600px

>>3000618
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constance,_Queen_of_Sicily

>>2998240
Because in the Middle Ages everyone fought for it, but then in the next 200y it was poor as shit because the economy shifted from the Mediterranean to the northern seas and Atlantic.

FUMMO FEDERICO II