Why are the crusaders glorified here when they were basically

Because they were aesthetic

because fuck Muslims to be honest

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>>2994122
This. Literally who gives a shit if muslims die.

>>2994125
What about when orthodox christians are murdered, nuns are raped and priceless artifacts are stolen, smashed and melted down?

>Muslims
>Civilians

Pick one

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Most people were ISIS-tier fundamentalists back then, though. At least the crusaders were strong enough to give off that "these guys are awesome"-vibe, instead of rotting away in some peasant hovel.
>>2994133
Someone should probably do something about that.

>>2994133
Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs

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>>2994135
>>2994140
>The Crusaders looted, terrorized, and vandalized Constantinople for three days, during which many ancient and medieval Roman and Greek works were either stolen or destroyed. The famous bronze horses from the Hippodrome were sent back to adorn the façade of St Mark's Basilica in Venice, where they remain. As well as being stolen, works of immeasurable artistic value were destroyed merely for their material value. One of the most precious works to suffer such a fate was a large bronze statue of Hercules, created by the legendary Lysippos, court sculptor of Alexander the Great. Like so many other priceless artworks made of bronze, the statue was melted down for its content by the Crusaders. The great Library of Constantinople was destroyed as well.

>Despite their oaths and the threat of excommunication, the Crusaders systematically violated the city's holy sanctuaries, destroying or stealing all they could lay hands on; nothing was spared, not even the tombs of the emperors inside the St Apostles church. The civilian population of Constantinople were subject to the Crusaders' ruthless lust for spoils and glory; thousands of them were killed in cold blood. Women, even nuns, were raped by the Crusader army,[ which also sacked churches, monasteries and convents. The very altars of these churches were smashed and torn to pieces for their gold and marble by the warriors. Although the Venetians engaged in looting too, their actions were far more restrained.[citation needed] Doge Dandolo still appeared to have far more control over his men. Rather than wantonly destroying all around like their comrades, the Venetians stole religious relics and works of art, which they would later take to Venice to adorn their own churches.

>>2994133
Revenge for previous atrocities against Catholics.

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>>2994119
People like the armor, probably because of Dark Souls.
PRAISE THE SUN XD became DEUS VULT

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>>2994133
That's bad, and they shouldn't do that.

>>2994119
>ISIS-tier
ISIS are not Christians fighting for the liberation of Christian lands.

>fundies
Meaningless buzzword.

>didn't achieve anything
Held the Holy Land for 200 years, built and rebuilt churches and monasteries, changed the way Christians were treated afterwards.

>>2994148
>muh Constantinople
That army was excommunicated after Zadar, they were no longer on a crusade by the time they reached Constantinople.

>travel halfway across the world
>experience immense hardship
>fight a localized and entrenched enemy
>conquer Jerusalem
>conquer Jaffa, Acre, Tripoli, Antioch, Edessa, etc.
>import Western civilization to the Holy Land
>live in a state of constant warfare for roughly 200 years

>have faggots on 4chan say you achieved nothing

>>2994148
>Catholics
>Uncivilised barbarians
What a surprise

>>2994359

To be fair, at that time period Catholic or Orthodox were the only choices.

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>>2994355
psssh...nothin personnel...kid...

>>2994328
The Pope originally praised their taking of Constantinople, he only ex'd them when he found out just how horrific they were, but then he later lifted that anyway.

The Crusader were a bunch of rats (although it was their CLERGY who ultimately spurred and led the attack), even the roaches didn't treat the Orthodox as bad. They destroyed the Byzantine Empire, and the Pope caused the great schism with his mendacious "Donation of Constantine". There was no "massacre of the Latins, " either, contemporary Genoese and Venetian sources only mention merchants and usurers being expelled; the story of a "massacre" doesn't appear until William of Tyr penned it, and he was devoted to polemic against the Byzantines

>>2994148
>un-ironically copy-pasting Wikipedia entries
Wtf has this board come to?

>>2994435
>The Pope originally praised their taking of Constantinople,
I assume you have a source for the bullshit you're spouting?

>>2994119
>Why are the crusaders glorified here when they were basically ISIS-tier fundamentalists

Because despite the fact that they were human filth, they were the ONLY ones who fought back against the mudscum tide.

>>2994119
If it wasn't for the crusades Europe would be poor as fuck and probanly wouldn't colonize the New World

>>2994525
>fighting back
>invading countries that were muslim for centuries

>>2994525

Where were the Crusaders when the Arabs conquered the Levant?

400 years is a pretty delayed reaction.

>>2994514
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/paradiseutopia/papal_supremacy_and_the_parting_of_the_ways_i

Furthermore, the Pope went on to support a Latin clergy replacing all the locals, and the Crusaders having rule over the newly formed Latin Empire

>>2994133
Freedom ain't free

>>2994637
>source requested
>anon posts a Orthodox podcast

Is this what passes for objectivity now?

>>2994652
A podcast by a history professor who frequently covers his sources

>>2994637
Also wouldn't be the last time a crusade attacked the Orthodox. Alexander Nevsky defeated another one sent by the Pope

>>2994355
>Living in a constant state of warfare for 200 years, looting and pillaging
>Import Christianity into the Middle East when it already existed there
>Completely wiped out by the 13th century.


Yep. Nothing of value was accomplished. Instead, the Byzantine Empire who were actually successuly doing what the Crusaders should have been doing, were crippled.

The crusades were an example of Christendom crushing its testicles between the door and frame of a car.

>>2994153
If someone so brazenly spat in the face of Jesus Christ every second of every day the way C*tholics do, especially in a time period when divine favour and national security were indistinguishable, I'd probably do the same.

>>2994546
The regions they reconquered were majority Christian.

>crusaders are isis tier
>fighting literally isis

>>2994125
>>2994122
These to be quiet frank.

>>2994546

Yes, fighting back. It took a while, sure, but you don't lose the right to self defense if you fail to defend yourself for a while when someone starts attacking you.

>>2994619

So if I beat your whore mother to death and it takes you moths to find me, you can't take revenge because "HURR you didn't react instantly :^)"

>>2995120
do you lose the right do attack a man whos grand-grand-grand-grand-father attacked your grand-grand-grand-grand-father?

The Crusaders fought to defend Christianity from the Muslims who had conquered and subjugated Christian lands in the Levant and Palestine, as well as North Africa, Spain and Asia Minor

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>>2995150
and ISIS are fighting to defend Muslims from Crusaders who have conquered and subjugated Muslim land

>>2995148

No.

>>2995182
>Muslim land

No such thing. Islam is a disease, it can't rightfully occupy land, only temporarily infest it.

>>2995128

It's more like my great grandfather killed your neighbor's great grandfather, then a hundred years later you come over to smash the windows on my house while yellling "the south will rise again, revenge for the war of northern aggression".

>>2995190
edgy

>>2994133
Historically, Christians did that as well.

>>2995223

Still justified. When a nigger raises its hand to a human, its whole lineage is condemned.

>>2995227
>t.mudscum filth

Opinion disregarded :^)

>>2994119
Why do you faggots always use a modern lens to compare modern events with past ones? The reason people dig vikings and templars is because they look cool and are fascinating and their behaviour was more understandable for the time they lived in. Of course had they lived today they would be just as reviled as the christians who are still burning witches in africa are reviled.
This isis comparison is so shit.

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>>2994119

>>2995380
Weak bait desu

>>2994546
if you have cancer for years and finally someone tries to treat you, you should be thankful :^)

>>2994675
>frequently
and into the trash it goes

>>2995182
that is not what they say. They fight against the corruption of western society, not christianity

>>2994119
forgetting that most of the land they conquered back was majority christian land in the middle east like anatolia, antioch, eddessa, and lebanon.

>>2995236
o fuck the edge

>>2995182
ISIS is only killing other muslims, almost exclusively.

>Why are the crusaders glorified here

It's just pol leaking here

>>2994119
I don't know, they were not even real Christians

>>2995837
>t.nigger

>>2994119
Crusades were [at least intended to be] a response to Muslim aggression into the Christian sphere. The first crusade only took cities important to various denominations of christendom, and land surrounding it, so that they would link up, for obvious military reasons. The rest of them either didn't succeed, or ended up being exploited for monetary gain.

>>2994675
But we're asking for a source here. A history professor in a podcast is close but no dice you have to have actual records for us to accept the kind of shit you're putting down.

>>2994119
>Pilgrims
>ISIS

>Area conquered by Crusades
Versus
>Area conquered by Jihad

Never forget

Requesting that illustration of the angry Templar walking

>>2994125
God, you fucking heretic, thout shalt not kill.

>>2995380
>islam started a war by persecuting religious minorities and expanding their territory, smething christendom has never done apart from all the times it did
>sacking byzantium and stealing anything that wasn't nailed down wasn't an example of blatant greed
>the first crusade is the only crusade
Who the fuck says the crusaders didn't believe their own propaganda? Doubts lie in whether the crusade was called for religious reasons, (rather unlikely as islamic countries held the holy land for a pretty long time) or some more politcally pressing matters like attempting to beat back some expansion from the islamic world or in order to gain some territory in the form of crusader states, or a different kind of non religious factor.
Who the fuck says taht the crusades caused islamic hatred of the west? At best i've seen it used as an example of how the relationship between christians and islamisists was historically strained, people looking for an exmplanation of why there's islamic hatred of the west only need to look into the internventionism in the middle east.

>>2996533
this

*Cries in Byzantine*

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>>2994367
delet this

>>2994355
>localized entrenched enemy

>>2994119
>>2994148
Only the first 3 crusades are canon. All subsequent crusades after the Original Trilogy aren't worth looking at. Venetians were terrible directors. Completely ruined the rest of the series and made the protagonists seem like the villains. Maybe they were trying to challenge the audience with this change of direction but it was a terrible reboot

>>2997143
Who thought an entire movie with only child actors that ends with them all being sold into slavery was a good idea?

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>>2994119
Uhh...

Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. Before you say I'm a biased christfag, the Viking raids were a response to christfag aggression in the same way and are thusly justified depending on your ethics.

>>2997161
>that image
Get off this board, please. /his/ doesn't need idiots like you.

They're glorified because they're a meme.
In all honesty crusaders were a bunch of raping pillaging murderers that didn't even care about this God or that God, they just wanted loot, land and pussy. They painted a cross on their shields and went to war with the pretext of fighting for God while the muslims painted some arabic writing and said the same thing. It was never about God, it was never about Jerusalen, one poor city in the middle of the desert, it was about what all wars are about - money, land, power you get the idea.

Saladin's words at the end of Kingdom of Heaven have a lot of meaning behind them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6aPgA5549g

>>2995380
lolol alt-right bait

>>2997545
I think that's simplifying their mindset, it's not like you can't believe that fighting in a Crusade will get you a spot in heaven while also being motivated by desire for loot and land.
Crusaders were motivated by both material rewards and their religion, but that doesn't change the fact they were a raping, pillaging murderers. Just like the Arabs were before them, and the Romans before the Arabs, and the Romans before the Arabs, and the Romans before the Greeks before the Persians etc etc etc.

>>2997557
You could also reserve a spot in heaven by being a dutiful pious peasant - plow your fields and wife, do backbreaking work for your lord your entire life, raise your children to do the same and die as a poor sad man who might spend an eternity in heaven. That is if heaven exists, or if God finds you worthy, there were skeptics back then just like there are now.

My point is, you could live that life or you could get on a ship and fight for more. The men that got land and titles in Jerusalem were regular solders, former peasants and piss poor craftsmen suddenly became royalty. I can't blame the people that chose to kill and pillage in the past because their conditions where much different than ours. You can't judge them with today's morals when you live an incredibly easier life and have access to nearly everything.

>>2994119
>>>>the crusades were one event

>>2997565
>You can't judge them with today's morals when you live an incredibly easier life and have access to nearly everything.
Why not? They were informed by the same set of values that I am, so I should be able to hold them to Judeo-Christian morality.

>>2994133
It's the same as sunnis killing and sacking Shiite cities

>>2997593
But how many of those values were exposed to you growing up and how sheltered were you from poverty and violence?

God says: Thou shall not steal. It's very easy to follow that law when your dad can buy food for you, but if your dad was killed by bandits and you're cold and hungry during a rough winter you might choose to dismiss that law so that you can survive. Why follow religious values and your lord's laws when you could break them and live without fear of dying of hunger.
You also have to take into account your way of researching on those values. You can read the bible anytime but back then your average peasant was illiterate and had to listen to the local priest.
The only way you can judge them by 21st century morals is to not be empathetic in the slightest.

>>2995229
You do realise that was meant for the Fourth Crusade, right?

>>2994122
Fantastic post

This thread is proof that all Abrahamic pigdogs are no different from one another.

>>2995081
I see what you did there.jpg

>>2994355
>import Western civilization to the Holy Land
>Implying Crusaders and their descendants didnt adapt to the eastern ways since they were miles ahead of the west in terms of civilization

>>2994148
>it's a butthurt Byzaboo episode
Should've paid denbts.

>>2994119
spatial-temporal coherence

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>>2994367
>teleports into acre
>"psssh nuthin personell saladman"

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>>2994119
>implying jihad would not have gone further then Vienna if not for the crusades and the orders of knights they birthed

wew

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>>2997350
this is not true?

explain

>>2998549
He's calling you a moron because you cherry-picked two separate events with very distinct context and bounds in an attempt to downplay violent Christian expansion against violent Muslim expansion.

>>2994122
they aren't even good muslim killers

>>2994122
>kill more Christians than Muslims
>fuck muslims

the answer is LARPing

>>2994119
Because their opponents were also ISIS-tier fundamentalists. Also, "didn't achieve anything" is a meme, the first, third, sixth and ninth crusades were all rather successful.

>>2998523
They wouldn't have, no.
>400 years after founding of Islam, Muslim Spain collapsing, Muslim SIcily being overrun, Muslim ports constantly raided, Fatimids, Abbasids, Umayyads, and Seljuks falling apart.
>400 years after founding of the Templars, Ottomans advancing into Central Europe, Christian demographic collapse in Middle East, Constantinople gone to boot.

They did nothing right.

/pol/ envies ISIS for being allowed to kill all they don't like while having sympathizers.

In the civilized western world they can't do the shit that ISIS does without being shat on for obvious reasons so they at least try to imagine a time where a person like them can do it and would be celebrated.

>>2998523
>implying they would've even went to Vienna if the crusaders didn't rape Constantinople

>>2997152
>It is 100 years since our children left
;_;

>>2994119
People glorify them because they were a bunch of Europeans who went on some pretty cool adventures in the holy land.

>>2998549

> Crusade Battles
> No cross over Constantinople

>>2994119
>what were the crusades?
>"they were a response to Muslim atrocities"
>but what about the pagans and then looting and raping?
>"not real crusaders"

Is there literally one single unbiased source that can explain the crusades?
I'm tired of modern larping retards running the show

>>2994119
The first 3 were cool.

>>3000223
Crusades have no real value outside of LARPing

>>2997143
>implying the Venetians weren't just milking the series for everything it was worth

>>3000223
What sources are you looking at? When I took a 4th-year Crusades class in university we used three main texts: The Crusades: A History by Jonathan Riley-Smith, The Oxford Illustrated History of the Crusades (also by Riley-Smith), and The Crusades: A Reader (1st edition).

All three are available on Amazon for less than $20.

Together they paint a nuanced picture, particular the reader which is made up of primary source material, of the crusades, their evolution, and their goals. Each crusade was different, and there were a lot of factors that influenced the crusades being called, the composition of the crusaders, and the way each expedition developed. While not negative in any way, the three texts present a good case for why we shouldn't romanticize the period.

>>2994125
>holding up one finger
>not one one finger with 3 distinct subfingers joined by one nail

Nice try shirkfag

>>2997593
The Crusades predate Martin Luther, as well as a huge amount of other developments in Christianity, and civilization broadly.

You share some things, but I think it's a bit foolish to claim that your values are the same as ~1100 CE Christians on a Holy War, regardless of what motivates that war and whether or not you're raised in a Judeo-Christian rooted culture.

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>>3000175
>>3000183
wrong. i just ran the math. as an example lets remove the knights hospitallers from the equation. u now have reduced navy opposition, campaigns rhodes+malta (because the crusder orders were doing enough damage to warrant it) and the corresponding resources available to drive into expansion into mainland europe. 8/10 made me reply ahmed

>>3000000

>>3000183
>implying taking Constantinople wasnt a long held ottoman dream and would have happened either way

ok

But no one idealizes the crusades outside of /pol/. The average person that even knows about the crusades idealzies knights in general and thinks of the crusades as some vague violent event where everybody was a dick.

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Reminder that the greatest kebab removers were Muslims.
The greatest butchers of Christians were other Christians

>>2998523
>the crusades didn't pave the way for the Ottoman conquest
Wew lad

>>3000951
The Ottomans wouldn't have existed if the the 4th crusade hadn't happened

Crusades were a reaction on the continuous assaults of muslims on other religions and countries.
egypt = Koptic christians under assault,
saudi-arabia and surrounding lands = all christians murdered
syria = christians being slaughtered by isis and al qaeda
Turkey = slaughtered all christians early 1900s
Armenia = under assault by turkmenistan and Turkey
sudan = christian south under assault by northern muslim tribes
Nigeria, mali, india, china, .......
wherever you go you have mudslimes assaulting other people and religion and justifying it by the asswipe book called kuran written by satan himself

>>3001269
>Turkey = slaughtered all christians early 1900s
wow, so Crusaders could predict the future?

>>3001276
it is a simple continuation of the same logic and violent religion which caused the crusades.
Muslims can live in peace as long as everybody is a muslim, sunni or shia, you cant mix those or they will also begin slaughtering again. such flawed 'religion of peace'

>>3001202
>>3001244
>islamic doctrine would not have existed if not for the crusades

really deep stuff here anons

>>3001286
are you saying islam and quran did not exist before the crusades? what verses were added to the quran after the crusades if i may know?
were there other verses deleted then?

>>3001135
>everything I dislike is /pol/
Crusaderfags are only a loud minority. There's probably more on /his/ than on /pol/.

>>3001282
so muslim are violent because they are muslims
christians are violent out of self defense

is that right?

>>3001294
People who truly know their history know that the Knights templar were created to defend people against robbers and rapist on their pilgrimage to the holy land.
So offcourse /his is better informed so there are more crusaderfags.
How can Knights Templar help it that muslims kept trying to kill rob enslave peace loving pilgrims who wished to visit the grave of jesus.
Go to saudi arabia, see how much they like christians, go and walk around with a cross around your neck. you will be lynched within 5 minutes.
peace loving muslims my asshole

>>3001301
well its not the muslims on itself that is violent.
it is the religion which calls for world domination, justifies and encourages enslavement and slaughter which makes them violent animals.

i call on everybody to watch this video of an honest muslim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHq25tnZoFs

>>3001308
but weren't it christians who conquered and dominated most of the world?

>>2994119
Because back then everyone was an ISIS-tier fundamentalist.

>>2997545
>11th-13th century Christians who marched through the desert, experienced high casualty rates all in the name of salvation are just as spiritually bankrupt as I am in 2017

Just shut up.

>ISIS-tier fundamentalists
you mean modern ISIS act like medieval zealots?
>didn't achieve anything besides murdering a bunch of civilians
creation of multiple states in the Levant and recapturing of Byzantine territory. The wars were fought for possession of territory and protection of Christian pilgrims in the area

>>3003992
>forbidding people to eat Bacon
>are all things that exist in the Bible
Only if you ignore the New Testament, Schlomo.

>>3003992
t. Ahmed
back to r/islam

https://mega.nz/#F!dlZlDbqL!TXG5bGvWufONkrQAL7b7jA!FoxUADKS
This was from a different thread ages ago, couldnt find the Crusade specific one but all the books from that one are in this (obviously with a ton of extra stuff)

>>2996538
Thou shall not murder, you King James only faggot. Righteous killing against heathens who would deny Jesus' divinity is good shit

>>2994746
>Nothing of value was accomplished.
It's not the destination that counts, it's the journey :^))

>>3000233
4>1>6>3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all Others>>>>>>broke ass peasant portion of 1

>>3000183
>he still thinks the ERE could've survived against the Turks

>>3005326
i am not an expert, but i am pretty sure jesus didn't preach to proselytise with the sword

>>3005326
what happened to loving your enemy and turning the other cheek?

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*takes your land*
Nothing personal salibi

>>3000183
Maybe the Byzantines shouldn't have been fucking retards with a gajillion throne claimants being tangled up in the eternal civil war for centuries if they wanted to actually resist the Turks. This is the entire reason why Constantinople even got sacked by the way, because the Crusaders were hired by a king, then another king deposed him and broke the treaty he had with the Crusaders. They didn't just do it for the lulz.