How can the concept of hell be compatible with an omnibenevolent,

>>2990732
God making us intrinsically good is not the same as creating a flawed version that overcomes good. To truly be good, one has to overcome evil, since there is no good without evil. Evil is something we can learn from, something that can make us see why we should be good. In a way, evil helps us be better than good.
That, or one can simply say, idk, God probably knows something I don't, so I trust he's doing it with the best intentions that I may understand in the next life.

>>2990732
>omnibenevolent
Well, I think it has more to do with justice than anything else.
Hardcore Christians emphasize God is just, so good people are rewarded and bad people are punished, iirc

>>2990732
>omnibenevolent

There's your problem right there. That atheist strawman that does not apply to God.

People who want to live with God forever have a place prepared for them to do so.

People who want to be separated from God forever have a place prepared for them to do so.

Everyone gets what they want.

What's wrong with that?

>>2990773
It's a fine try, but there are no good people.

>>2990732
>omnibenevolent
I don't know that any religion actually claims this. Most will say that god is good, but that's not the same. Some individuals (probably lots) may incorrectly bepiece this though.

>>2990732

God doesn't send people to Hell. People send themselves there.

>>2990787
if separation from God is unpleasant as christianity claims then i don't want that

File: nervous.jpg (104KB, 927x1200px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 927x1200px

>>2990851
So do you accept God into your heart and repent of your sins? Because those are the terms and conditions if you want to stay in God's kingdom. Otherwise you get sent to the land without God's presence (which just so happens to suck)

>>2990860
I can't because i think it's unlikely he exists, with the chances of the christian god existing being next to nil

Just because God is giving away His grace and salvation freely does not mean everyone will choose to accept it. If they wholly reject it, then they made their bed and have to lie in it.
t. Catholic

>>2990842
>God knows everything
>God knows who is going to hell
>He creates them anyway knowing this

Really activated my almonds

File: holo.jpg (204KB, 850x1159px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 850x1159px

>>2991072
Existence is better than non-existence.

>>2991060
But god has never come to me personally to grant his grace, only via human missionaries.

And I'm also being contacted by Ik Onkar, Ganesh, Allah, etc. by missionaries.

How am I expected to know which is correct?

>>2991081
>An existence of eternal suffering without chance of redemption is better than not existing

(You)

File: song.jpg (161KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 1600x1200px

>>2991084
Yes.

>>2991088
You'd have to be either brainwashed or lobotimized to think eternal suffering is preferable to not existing.

>>2991060

He created those people who won't accept it, knowing ahead of time that they would suffer FOREVER for the "sin" of not accepting something he made them unable to accept.

>>2990851
Correct. Because not only would you be separated from God, you would be separated from everything that comes from God. Light, love, peace, joy, patience, kindness, gentleness, long-suffering, etc.

Being separated from God is an irreversible catastrophe that you can make sure does not happen to you, today.

>>2991090
This. If god really knows everything we have no free will, and Christians make a huge fucking deal about how it's our choice to love and embrace god when really that thought process is completely incompatible with an omniscient god

File: eyesore.jpg (89KB, 927x1200px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 927x1200px

>>2991089
I'd rather live an eternity without God than not live at all (although I'd rather live an eternity with God than without)

>God is everywhere at all times
>Hell is separation from God
>God can make a place where he cannot be present

???

>>2991095
Well considering you're an anime poster and not actually developing your arguments I assume you're just fishing for (you)s

>>2990865
then explain Jesus rising from the grave, to be alive forevermore.

explain his disciples all going to gruesome deaths never recanting one iota of the gospel.

explain why we're talking about an itinerant rabbi/carpenter on a Manchurian spice trading board 2000 years later.

>>2991072
God knew from before the beginning who would reject him, and who would accept him.

For the people who would reject him, he prepared a place.

For the people who accepted him, he prepared a place.

Everyone gets what they want.

I do not understand how people can get what they want and cry about it.

File: point.png (340KB, 492x900px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 492x900px

>>2991097
Are you seriously telling me there's never been that thought running through your head "I'd be willing to go to Hell as long as I can have this one thing"?

>>2991100
I can also talk about Zeus on this same board 3000 years later.

Is he the true god then?

>>2991082
The Holy Spirit of God has absolutely come to you and been a witness to you that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Believe Him, and do what is necessary to be saved: confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead.

It's not only the best deal in the universe, it's the only deal in the universe.

>>2991106
>Trading finite pleasure for infinite punishment

You clearly have no grasp of the concept of infinity. Either that or you have no concept of forethought.

>>2991084
So maybe don't choose that option.

It's not a trick question.

>>2991110
>the only deal in the universe

How about Ik Onkar allowing me to understand I should live to spread peace and happiness and promote universal suffarage?

>>2991089
Maybe never existing is the best outcome possible; but who among us can say they achieved it?

No, play the hand you're dealt, anon. Don't fantasize yourself out of the game.

File: mad.png (90KB, 1500x1200px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 1500x1200px

>>2991112
Of course it's the illogical choice, evil itself is illogical, trading infinite pleasure for instant gratification, we see this in the Bible all the time, that doesn't mean that being the sinful people we are we don't fall for the temptation quite a bit.

>>2991096
Can God choose where He will be? Is that okay with you?

>>2991107
No, he's just Adam, deified by the Greeks. Which a modicum of study would have demonstrated.

>>2991117
But there is no infinite place of suffering, suffering without redemption is sadism. Humans experience time on a linear scale how would god expect us all to be redeemed from a punishment we've never experienced?

Furthermore, whatabout virtuous people who never even hear of god?

>>2991114
You're either For Jesus or Against Jesus. And yes, there are many ways that seem right to a man, but they all end in death.

This world provided you with a temporary living place. From this world, you determine your eternal living place.

>>2991123
There is an infinite place of suffering; Jesus made it to confine the devil and his angels.

If you join the rebellion against God, you end up with the devil and his angels in the lake of fire.

Pretty simple concept.

As to your "virtuous" person, His name is Jesus. Aside from Him, there are no good people. And He's only good because He is also God; the Son of Man and the Son of God. Ready willing and able to redeem mankind, and needs only your consent to add you to the number headed for glory.

If you went to a foreign country and murdered the son of the king, even if you were not familiar with their laws, would you not expect some fairly harsh punishment if caught?

>>2991125
You're not addressing the argument. My point is we have no way of knowing who's right, and you keep spouting back that YOU are right.

>>2991130
>If you went to a foreign country and murdered the son of the king, even if you were not familiar with their laws, would you not expect some fairly harsh punishment if caught?
False equivalence. The worst thing I've ever done from a Christian moral standpoint is masturbate.

File: saya.jpg (195KB, 1600x955px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 1600x955px

>>2991123
Who said time in Hell or Heaven is experience linearly? Most explanations of Hell and Heaven I've heard make it a place where time isn't experienced as it is here.

Besides, adding more pain onto their lives doesn't make them repent, because at most that's just a forced confession.

>whatabout virtuous people who never even hear of god?
We don't know what happens to them, God will judge them justly and mercifully, but there are no good people.

File: cowgirl.png (884KB, 625x1378px) Image search: [Google]

884KB, 625x1378px

>>2991134
So you've committed adultery then?

>>2991131
I don't understand your problem.

Is God right?

Or is the devil right?

Is that what you're asking me? Because as I indicated above, the Holy Spirit has spoken to your heart and told you that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. That's His job. And with your consent, He will begin the process of transforming you into the likeness of Christ Jesus.

If you push aside the only means for salvation, for anything, including a lifetime of charitable works on earth, you will have been born spiritually dead, achieved your age of accountability, stayed spiritually dead, and will stand condemned already before the Judge of the Universe for not believing Jesus is Who He says He is.

Two Christians in this thread have told you the same thing, and the Holy Spirit has told you the same thing.

If you continue in your rebellion against God, know that the rebellion is already over, and your side lost.

>>2991134
From a Christian standpoint, you were born into the rebellion against God, stayed in the rebellion against God, were never born again in the Spirit, and thus must be dealt with as one who is dead. Eternal separation from God. Because of Adam's sin, you were stillborn, and there is no place for the dead in the Kingdom of the Living.

All of your sins were forgiven you before you were born; a pardon in your name was purchased with the lifeblood of the Son of God.

Don't blow it.

>>2991140
How is masturbation adultery?

>>2991156
If you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you have violated the commandment "thou shalt not commit adultery".

Sin begins in the heart, and the human heart is wicked beyond knowing.

File: aesthetic.jpg (125KB, 1500x892px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 1500x892px

>>2991156
>"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
I'm assuming that you look at or think of women when you masturbate, no?

>>2991143
You're creating a fake dichotomy where I must somehow know the judeo-Christian god is real because 2 humans on this board told me so.

I've meditated before and I felt closer to a higher power during that than any prayer. I've visited a gurdwara that had some of the kindest people I've ever met, and you're just going to keep mindlessly droning on about how I'll suffer forever for not believing what only 30% of the world believes?

I started this thread because I was willing to hear the other side, but alk I've heard is the same nonsensical circular arguments from 3 different people, all of which just scream of intolerance and insufferable "holier than thou" arguments.

Can we please get someone in this thread that can actually properly explain this to me?

>>2990732
It cannot. Christcucks are pathetically incompetent in dealing with the problem of hell, because ultimately it has no solution.

>>2991161

Do anime aliens with boobs count as women?

>>2991136
>who said time in hell is linear?

Every time I make that argument people being that up, but it doesn't matter. My point is there is a linear scale from our birth to our death, and punishment comes AFTER our death, AFTER the chance at redemption, no going back.

The punishment should come BEFORE the chance of redemption, not after.

>>2991158
>>2991161
>a literal thought crime

Woah

>>2991183

Of course, God knows all your innermost thoughts.

File: militia.jpg (62KB, 640x458px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 640x458px

>>2991181
It's not a punishment, it's the choice you make. If God seperates himself from us completely how the heck are we supposed to ask for redemption with no Holy Spirit to guide us to him?

>>2991176
For the purposes of corrupting your heart and seperating you from God, yes.

>>2991186
>it's a choice you make

God knew I was going to hell before I was created yet he created me.

Not my choice.

>>2991171
There's only one God. If you can't figure that out, it's on you, not Him. A cursory examination of the universe suffices to know there is a God.

I've already explained it to you; the other Christian has already explained it to you; and the Holy Spirit has explained it to you.

When you face Jesus on his Great White Throne, your defense of willing ignorance of the Law will fall on deaf ears.

I guarantee you that you have never felt anything as good as what God gives his children, because anything you have felt comes from either yourself, humans, the world, or the devil.

All inferior sources.

Jesus said seek and ye will find; knock and it will be opened to you; ask and it will be given to you.

We're not the other side. You are. God has given you sufficient evidence to know He exists, and Jesus' miraculous birth, sinless life, miracle filled ministry, prophecy, fulfilled prophecies in the hundreds, and resurrection from the dead suffices as evidence Jesus is God.

>>2991181
You should be cast into hell before you die?

How dumb would that be?

File: teeth.jpg (75KB, 1024x971px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 1024x971px

>>2991189
I know the sun is going to rise tommorow, that doesn't mean I'm forcing it to do so.

>>2991189
Your choice as to what God knew before he created you.

It's all on you.

>>2990732
>How can the concept of hell be compatible with an omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient creator?

It sure is compatible with people not being total cunts, I mean, we are all fluffy bunnies made of rainbows and deprived of knowledge of evil.

>>2991192
Where's the Holy Spirit in this thread?
>>2991194
No? I'm saying there should be a chance at redemption after death.
>>2991195
You knew the sun was going to rise and that your wife didn't want it to wake her up, yet you opened the blinds.
>Your choice as to what God knew before he created you
That's not how it works. If it must happen, it's out of my control.

>>2991196
Forgot to tag you ^

File: Cyberpunk Christ-chan.gif (45KB, 450x510px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 450x510px

>>2991209
>If it must happen, it's out of my control
But it doesn't have to happen, you can still choose to repent and accept him into your heart right now.

>>2991216
No I can't, because then he would have created me knowing I would go to heaven, which would defeat the set up of the entire argument I was making.

>>2991209
The Holy Spirit is in the Christians posting in this thread, telling you the gospel.

There is only this life to make the choice because once this body dies, you are resurrected into one of two eternal bodies; one for shame and destruction, and one for glory. Your pick.

You keep trying to deny personal responsibility for your decisions about Jesus Christ. It won't fool God. It doesn't even fool me.

>>2991228
You keep thinking God and you experience time the same way.

God sees the end from the beginning.

A thousand years is as a day to Him, and a day is as a thousand years.

He knew all your decisions that you would make, but they are all your decisions to make.

make wise ones

>>2991228
You're confusing him knowing the future with him determining your actions. It's like the whole sun analogy I just mentioned earlier.

>>2991189
Or God knew you were going to heaven before you were created, and he created you.

Your choice.

>>2991216
Gotta scoot, but it's been a pleasure posting with you. See you in heaven!

File: 428.jpg (56KB, 500x529px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 500x529px

>>2990732
>"Wahh, why doesn't a just God let an unclean sinner into heaven!!!"
Get behind me, Satan.

No one knows who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Only God.

File: IMG_3090.png (210KB, 871x900px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 871x900px

>>2991254
>>2991240
>>2991238
>>2991234
>>2991231
>>2991228
>>2991197
Kys

File: e58b52ea-67cc-49be-a243-8d827bee9255.jpg (174KB, 600x549px) Image search: [Google]

174KB, 600x549px

>>2991263
You don't deserve to use her likeness, heathen.

>>2991260
>>2991240
>>2991238
>>2991234


Knowing the consequences of an action and still committing it is what's problematic.

The sun analogy is bullshit because god creating me is an active role on his part, whereas you don't make the sun rise.

God created 70 percent of the current human population (the pagans and atheists) knowing they'd go to hell. Assuming some sort of miraculous awakening and conversion spree, that still means about 50% of the world today was created by a god that knew his creations were going to hell.

>>2991081
No it isn't.

>>2991283
>god creating me is an active role on his part
To be fair, it was technically your dad cumming into your mom's vagina that determined how you were created.

>>2991110
>Believe Him, and do what is necessary to be saved: confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead.
Want to. Can't.

>>2991290
Even then, god still set in course the actions that caused my birth and my damnation to hell.

His fault, still not my choice.

For him to know everything that will happen there needs to be a set path, meaning that it's not my choice at all.

File: angry-war-hungry-god.jpg (53KB, 381x356px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 381x356px

>>2991263
"God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies." -Nahum 1:2 KJV

File: brother.jpg (95KB, 815x980px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 815x980px

>>2991293
>god still set in course the actions that caused my birth and my damnation to hell
But literally everything you do from your birth onwards is your own choice, your creation was your parents choice, hell, even the beginning of man itself was evolutions choice. Did God have a guiding hand in it every step of the way? Absolutely, but that just means we have even less of an excuse to reject him because he tries to turn us towards him.

File: GenericWhiteWojak.png (126KB, 619x757px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 619x757px

>>2990787

>Everyone gets what they want.
>What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is it's blatantly dishonest. Going to hell would never count as "getting what [you] want" except in a pedantic, meaningless, word twisting sense of what wanting is. It'd be like dropping someone off a bridge because they said five years ago that they didn't want to be with you. Yes, you technically made it so that they were separated from you thus granting them their wish, but you also did something to them that they definitely didn't want which is falling to their death.

Yes, it's conceivable many people wouldn't want to be with God. But no, this doesn't mean these people want to experience the worst pains and sufferings imaginable for all eternity. Nobody would want that. It's retarded anyone still makes that argument, I know you know it's bullshit.

>>2991192
>Jesus' miraculous birth, sinless life, miracle filled ministry, prophecy, fulfilled prophecies in the hundreds, and resurrection from the dead suffices as evidence Jesus is God.

>Jesus totally fulfilled all of these prophecies
>look it says right here in these texts written by people who wanted to show that Jesus fulfilled all of these prophecies

>>2991081
>T. Anselm

>>2991291
Ask for God's assistance, because it is required.

Or admit you don't want to.

>>2991301
You still aren't getting it through your thick head:

If god knows everything, there can't be any deviation from the path. Meaning it was all predetermined.

>>2991303
I don't understand.

If you don't want to go to hell, choose to go to heaven.

If you don't want to go to heaven, choose to go to hell.

File: sword and shield.jpg (142KB, 2048x1536px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 2048x1536px

>>2991303
>It'd be like dropping someone off a bridge because they said five years ago that they didn't want to be with you
But there is no non-bridge place without God in this context. There is no conceivable location that doesn't have God's presence without being as miserable as Hell.

>>2991301
>Absolutely, but that just means we have even less of an excuse to reject him because he tries to turn us towards him.
You have to admit that for a being that's supposedly omnipotent, he's doing REALLY terrible job at that. The fact that majority of people still aren't Christians is pretty much all evidence anyone should need to prove that Christianity isn't true, or at least doesn't tell the whole story.

File: glass.jpg (22KB, 540x495px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 540x495px

>>2991315
You're confusing predetermination with foreknowledge. One does not imply the other.

>>2991316
>If you don't want to go to hell, choose to go to heaven

I have hundreds of different faiths and sects telling me how to go to heaven.

Only one can be right, and you expect me to KNOW which is right?

Wow you are one brainwashed fuck.

>>2991315
It was all foreknown.

Not predetermined.

Huge difference. Denying your status as a free will moral agent does not prevent you from being a free will moral agent. And you can believe the truth, that God gave you a choice, or you can believe the lie, that you cannot be saved.

Your choice.

(What if God always knew that He would save you today?)

>>2990732
Humans assume that God is good because humans are stupid monkeys who cant view things outside of a good or evil compass, God is an amoral being the reasons behind hell existence is as simple as BECAUSE HE CAN.

>>2991318
Yes there is, because God is omnipotent and he can do whatever he wants.

File: faggot.jpg (63KB, 680x451px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 680x451px

>>2991319
Humans are really sinful creatures. We've known this for a very long time now.

>>2991316

Nobody wants to go to hell. You can't honestly believe anyone sits there going "yeah, I'd love to experience the worst suffering imaginable for all eternity." You're conflating wanting to live your life doing things you enjoy and not believing in a god or accepting one as your savior with wanting to go to hell. Those are two different things, which is obvious because many people want the former and literally no one wants the latter.

>>2991320>>2991324


Predetermination does not imply foreknowledge, but foreknowledge surely implies predetermination.

If I KNOW what will happen, it is destined to be.

File: cute.png (252KB, 848x1219px) Image search: [Google]

252KB, 848x1219px

>>2991328
But all good things come from God. To ask God to create a location without his presence but with good things is basically asking God to leave the room but stay in the room.

>>2991329
So either God did terrible job creating humans, or he's doing terrible job showing us the right path, or both.

>>2991334
An omnipotent being would have no problem doing it.

>>2991328
God is not omnipotent, he made a universe that is not omnipotence or anywhere near close to it.

>>2991334
Paradoxes cease to be meaningful when you start throwing around words like omnipotent.

File: god is good-ish.png (1MB, 1063x1536px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1063x1536px

>>2991301

Try to get this thru your thick skull: OMNI. SCIENT. God isn't like a computer programmer who codes some artificial life with pseudo-will and sits back to watch what happens. God knew, absolutely and without possibility of error, who would be saved and who would be damned before he even created the Universe. But he created the sinful anyway. He doesn't get to hide behind "muh free will", the concept is nonsensical when there is an omniscient being in the mix. Worse, he is also all powerful. This means he COULD have simply created those sinners t be not sinful, instead. This would have cost him no effort at all. Worst of all, he is all-loving. He wants the best for each and every one of us. He sees himself as our "father", and loves us beyond the capacity of humans to understand. Yet he chose to create sinners, knowing without possibility of error that they would suffer FOREVER. Infinite pain and misery, for.... what, exactly? Acting as he made you? Doing what he knew you would do?

>>2991339
Matthew 19:26:
"But Jesus beheld them and said unto them, 'With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'"

Christfags can't handle it.

>>2991322
First off, no, you do not. Catholics have no idea, Islamic paradise is not heaven, mormonism turn into a planet is not heaven, hindu be born again forever is not heaven, buddhist nirvana is not heaven; Jews have no heaven; in fact, no other religion teaches you anything about heaven or the narrow path that gets you to heaven, Christ Jesus.

You think all religions are basically the same with superficial differences. They are all actually basically different with superficial similarities.

And none of them had Jesus, manifesting in the flesh as God Himself, come down to earth and tell you in no uncertain terms what you must do to be saved, and giving you extraordinary evidence to support His extraordinary claims.

You must be born again, in the Spirit, because your current body is incapable of living with God, and your inherited body if you choose not to be saved will do nothing but burn.

100% of the human race deserves to go to hell. If 70% end up in hell, that's a huge win for the good guys. I do not think it will be any higher than 10% that find Jesus, and salvation.

>>2991331
Fuck God! I'd rather go to hell and party with my friends!

Yeah, I've never heard that a thousand times.

>>2991329

It's kind of petty and nonsensical to focus on "sin" when the living conditions people are forced into are as bad as they've been throughout history. Maybe in a world without disease you'd get to start talking about sin seriously, but not in this world where people get fistulas routing fecal matter into their scrotum. If anything the idea of sin seems like a really sad and desperate attempt by ancient people to try to control these uncontrollable horrors, because if bad things were happening to them because they were being bad themselves, then they could try really hard to be good and make the cancer go away.

>>2991345
I was talking about the different sects of protestantism you absolute mongoloid.

>Catholcis have no idea
>He's never read the divine comedy

>100% of the human race deserves to go to hell

If god loves us why do we deserve his wrath?

>>2991231
>There is only this life to make the choice because once this body dies, you are resurrected into one of two eternal bodies; one for shame and destruction, and one for glory. Your pick.

Wrong, you are resurrected as a human being or other complex life form here on Earth. You are already in the kingdom of Heaven, you soul passes through that dimension to get to the 4th-dimensional space where its compatible life forms reside.
When you die, you become aware of this higher dimension and also able to shape it. The ideas of heaven and hell are complete fiction, but that's what it will look like to you if you've spent some time thinking about it. You don't get to "pick", you can't affect the outcome, it's always the same. Your existence as a physical being in this dimension stops but your existence in this universe is eternal.
We cannot ascribe anything we understand of this dimension we life in to that of higher ones, human brains cannot really comprehend higher dimensions, only representations of them. What is written in all the religious tomes of Earth are representations of higher dimensional places and beings and thus complete fiction.

Every living being is part of a fabric that is what we perceive as God, that stretches over the universe. Every "soul" is a thread. A living being is a nothing more than a motile natural computer that is capable of working with the data contained within the thread (the soul) and representing it to others in reality as a complete being.

I also believe that the "souls" of beings on planets are forced to stay there by gravity, requiring the souls to be recycled over and over again. With this idea, I see it possible that all the souls here ITT were around at the very dawn of life on Earth, and grew more complex over time to drive larger and more complex forms of life until humanity became the dominant creature on the planet.

>>2991345
>100% of the human race deserves to go to hell.

Why? Because God planned out reality so that we would transform into a species of sinners?

Sorry I guess.

File: arms.jpg (127KB, 730x482px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 730x482px

>>2991338
>>2991341
>>2991342
So then if paradoxes don't mean anything to an omnipotent being, then surely he could create you with foreknowledge of what you would do, yet not force you to do those things?

>>2991333
God does not tell you what He knows.
What He knows does not impact upon your free will.

You merely do not have the capacity to surprise God, which is what you seem to want to do. Nor do you have the capacity to rebel against God without suffering the consequences, which again is not a choice you have.

Bend not the knee to the conquering king, and you will be shorter by a head. It's always been this way.

>>2991348
Not even what he said.

>>2991348

Yeah, it's not the most inspiring sentiment in the world. But it's also VERY far from justifying sentencing even the worst people who ever lived to suffer for ALL ETERNITY.

>>2991336
Or God made Adam and Eve amazing, and they ruined themselves and eventually after many broken copies, made you.

>>2991357
I will concede that.

But still, god created me with the logic that would lead me to the conclusion that I cannot choose one faith of many, and therefore screwed me from the beginning.

>>2991342
God has the power to do anything he wants to do.

Is it okay with you if He gets to choose what He wants to do, and not you?

Is that okay with you?

>>2991363
He created them knowing they'd betray him, again crushing the idea of free will causing humans to be broken.

Also, in what way does it make sense for me to be judged by the actions of my predecessors?

>>2991359
So basically 'might makes right'.

Things would sure be a lot simpler if Abrahamics would just admit this is the rationale behind their religion.

>>2991367

Prove to me that your holy book is what God wants, and not the ravings of a schizophrenic.

>>2991363
I'm really sorry for being descended from Adam and Eve.

Obviously that's my fault.

>>2991363
>Or God made Adam and Eve amazing, and they ruined themselves
Which is another way of saying that he did terrible job creating them. I'd say that someone who made a great robot that instantly proceeds to maim itself did quite terrible job even if the robot really WAS otherwise great.

>>2991353
Follow God, and read the bible, and ask the Spirit for direction.

Friendly tip.

If you find a christian church that does not know what Romans 10:9-13 says and means, don't darken its doorway.

>>2991344
Prove hes ominpotent or shut the hell up.

>>2991363
>sin is hereditary

Is there any concept more vile in the whole history of human thought? Oh wait, yes: Vicarious redemption.

>>2991354
So you love lies, and those who make lies.

That's the difference between you and I; that and I'm alive, and you're dead.

>>2991378
I just proved it via the bible, which is all christfags need.

>>2991355
Because of Adam's sin, Adam and Eve were incapable of creating children in God's image, i.e. with the Holy Spirit living in them.

The Holy Spirit and sin do not co-exist. All of Adam and Eve's children, including you and I, were born spiritually dead. No God in us, and God is Life.

>>2991383

No the difference is that he's sane and you're off your meds.

>>2991363
Adam and Eve are a myth they never ever existed, Most of the beginning of the Old Testament is bullshit jews made up to explain how things worked.

>>2991360
He said nobody chooses to go to hell.

Everyone in hell chose hell.

>>2991392
>The Holy Spirit and sin do not co-exist
Angels killed people in the bible.

>>2991362
The people in hell would be worse off in the Kingdom of God than they would be, in the dark, alone, and on fire forever.

>>2991394
>jews made up

On the contrary much of the "old myth" is Sumerian, while the later monotheism of Moses is Egyptian.

>>2991398
>chose hell
No, evil humans or psychopaths are cognitively unable to generate compassion and empathy in their brains thus they cannot ever stop acting evil as they are programmed on a genetic level to act evil.

>>2991404

How?

>>2991392
So we all deserve to be tortured forever for circumstances entirely beyond our control?

And instead of just fixing this as is fully within his power, God decided to go the route of sending his son down and having him executed and then asking us all to follow him if we don't want to go to Hell?

Why?

>>2991366
You told you that you could not believe Jesus is who He said He is. You did that. Not God. God did the opposite. He told you Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

The Bible never even says humans have free will.

>>2991412

God never said anything, it is always and only MEN putting their words in God's mouth.

>>2991368
Yes, God sees the end from the beginning.

When I say that, I mean that God sees all ends from the beginning.

That God is capable of doing an infinite number of things in zero time.

See, you just need to get a bigger, better picture of who God is, whose hand spans the universe, and yet who makes the smallest creatures live at the bottom of the sea.

Your god is you; your god is too small to save you.

>>2991369
Yes, ultimately might makes right, as God is the Almighty.

And yet He is consistent within Himself to be just, holy, righteous, gracious, and merciful.

>>2991371
30% of the bible is prophetic; it alone tells the end from the beginning which is something only God can do.

The bible will prove itself to you as the Word of God if you study prophecy.

>>2991416

It's not compatible with the religion of Moses, it was only when the Christcuks were trying to fit Greek philosophical concepts into their primitive desert cult theology that these problems started to appear. The God of the Bible is not even omnipotent, he's merely "allmighty", able to do anything better than any other god or man.

>>2991372
Play the hand you were dealt. You have choices to make. Chop chop.

>>2991404

There's more than just heaven and hell. Earth is neither and literally everyone would prefer Earth over hell. Make an Earth and stick "bad" people there when they die and you'd already be improving infinitely on the hell plan. Also you could conceivably just have people cease to exist altogether when they die which would be even better than that Earth plan.

>>2990790
Depends on where you set the bar, but sorry about the word choice

>>2991373
He made them free will moral agents so that the highest ideal in the universe could be love, freely given, and freely received.

What fault do you find in that?

>>2991424
>And yet He is consistent within Himself to be just, holy, righteous, gracious, and merciful.

Because he says so. All of it ultimately just rests on his power.

>>2991378
He spoke the universe into existence in 6 24 hour days.

He can do anything that requires power to do.

>>2991425

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2991436

Maybe the part where people go to hell and suffer for all eternity?

>>2991380
If you know what is meant by sin, it makes sense. Adam and Eve died, spiritually, and their children were made in their own image, not in the image of God.

Not being in the image of God is sinning, i.e. missing the mark, as in shooting an arrow and missing the target.

An the target is "be perfect, as your father in heaven is perfect". And yes, everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

>>2991436
The part where majority of their descendants are apparently doomed to eternal suffering, for starters. If they had been perfect, then surely they would have been free to choose God instead of evil.

>>2991438
No he made the earth in six days you retarded christfag.

>>2991393
If you re-read what he wrote, they are the ramblings of a madman.

>>2991394
Shame you refuse to be saved so you can't meet them in heaven.

>>2991447

They do sound pretty similar to the bible.

>>2991449
Seriously? If anybody deserves to suffer for all eternity it's those two.

>>2991449
Science contradicts the bullshit in Genesis, also every religion has an unproven origin story.

>>2991443
>made sick
>commanded to be well

Thanks, God!

>>2991401
The Holy Spirit and angels are separate, but for The Angel of The Lord, who is Jesus.

God pronouncing sentence upon people and killing them is not a sin; He is the judge of the universe and has ultimate authority over his own creation.

Is that okay with you? Is it okay if God runs His universe the way He sees fit?

Perhaps God isn't as we think/interpret he is.

Also what the fuck is the fun in creating an entire people if you have already decided their destiny in detail?

>>2991449
They never knew Jesus, so surely they would be in Hell.

>>2991408
And then they go to hell. Problem solved.

Just like shooting a rabid dog who is running at your children.

>>2991447

Explain how they are more or less insane than your beliefs?

>>2991380
The idea that you can just do whatever awful shit you want and then become "born again" relative moments before you expire -- I had someone some to me at work with a handful of Chick Tracts and trying to tell me he was a born again Christian and all this other BS. I told him what I said in >>2991354 , that we are already in the kingdom of heaven, and basically we have eternal life but our vessels do not, that you can't be "born again" until you actually die. He looked REALLY confused. You cannot trust a Born Again Christian, especially if they are all too happy to tell you about it. It means they've done bad shit in the past and think that telling a clergyman will get them out of it.

>>2991383
I have had flashes of remembrance of my past existences and strange feelings of being "communicated to" by higher beings, who have gleaned me this information. I find that far more believable than an ancient storybook written before people knew what insanity was. I am assuredly alive and full of the love of the universe thank you very much.

>>2991455

>Is that okay with you?

No, it's not OK with most people here because of the hell problem, hence all the posts in this thread.

>>2991459
There is no choice in the evil though.

>>2991459
>Just like shooting a rabid dog who is running at your children.
Exactly. You SHOOT a rapid dog. You don't keep it in a cage to torture it.

>>2990732
It isn't. That's why christians are either brainlets or chose to ignore that.

>>2991467

But anon, that dog goes to hell after you shoot it.

>>2991409
I cannot explain it to you in a way you would understand, because you have never experienced a hint of this, but here goes anyway.

The closer you get to God, the more you realize how holy He is, and how wicked you are.

If you were stuck in a situation where you had to constantly confront how holy God was, and how wicked you were, I do not think even spirit beings would retain the power to keep their identity.

Being on fire is a mercy next to that.

>>2991467
Torture also has no effect on psychopaths since their brains are wired to get pleasure no matter what.

>>2991470
>something that does something out of its control is punished

sounds like Christianity.

>>2991410
Yes. Our race joined satan in his rebellion to overthrow God. We all deserve to suffer the fate of our leader.

I chose not to want what I deserve, and not to get what I deserve, but instead to avoid what I deserve, and get what I do not deserve.

That's the grace and mercy of God.

>>2991461

It's not just the Born Agains, all Christians have some ritual of penance by which they can wish away their moral responsibility by telling yourself that god forgives you. Nothing could be more morally corrosive than this concept, no good man can ever be a Christina, and no Christian can ever be a good man.

>>2991474

See:

>>2991431

Your problem is you're thinking in terms of two and only two ridiculous black and white extremes.

>>2991416
Even in the OT it says "choose this day whom ye will serve".

When God says "choose", you have free will.

>>2991479
>our race

Woah a Christian being racist where have I seen that before

>>2991470
Animals don't have souls, anon.

>>2991477
Now that's just flat-out bullshit, anon. Psychopaths are incapable of empathy, they're not incapable of suffering.

>>2991417
God said many things, as Jesus is God, and said many things. When God first spoke to the newly freed Hebrews, they begged Him to never do so again because they were frightened almost to death.

>>2991482
How about Paul's potter analogy?

I thought I was over my edgy atheist phase by this thread is causing me to relapse.

>>2991485
Psychos cannot be traumatized anon, they have a lower degree of fear than normal people due to their deformed amygdalas.

>>2991100
explain Joseph Smith

>>2991431
A new heaven and a new earth will take the place of our heavens and our earth, and the New Jerusalem will come from the third heaven into our first heaven. That's the city you've heard of, with streets of gold and pearls for gates.

It's a satellite city 2/3 the size of the moon, and I have a house there. I am a citizen there.

Hell is the outer darkness, and will have no part in the new heaven and the new earth.

>>2991492
That does not equal being unable to suffer.

>>2991488
>Jesus is God

Not even Jesus claims this. This is Paul's invention.

>>2991435
Exactly. We like to judge ourselves next to people we think are evil. But the standard is "be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect", and we all fail that standard.

>>2991490

If the braindead shitfarts of the theists ITT have persuaded you, then you're definitely dumb enough to be religious.

>>2991497
Psychos dont feel suffering they feel annoyance at best, notice psychopaths rarely ever show signs of sadness?

>>2991437
Correct. On His Word, by His power.

>>2991442
And yet many go to glory and exist in heaven forever.

Do you not count the benefits, as well as the costs?

1. No universe. No love.
2. Automaton universe. No love.
3. Pollyanna universe. No love.
4. This universe. Free will, love is the highest ideal.

>>2991506
>On His Word

No. On the word of the MEN who wrote the Bible.

Taking for granted that God exists, why trust the Bible as a source of information on him?

Isn't that like trusting a Soviet propaganda leaflet to tell you about Capitalism and Communism?

>>2991445
They were. They made the same stupid choice you're making.

If you want to know why they chose to go to hell, ask yourself why you're choosing to go to hell instead of being saved, which is what God wants to do but will not without your consent.

>>2991505
>notice psychopaths rarely ever show signs of sadness?
So they do SOMETIMES show signs of sadness? I wouldn't know, I don't associate myself with those kinds of people.

>>2991104

>be me
>make an AI robot
>know that it's going tip wash dishes, mowe the lawn... and rape children
>build it anyway
>raping kids like I knew it would do
>but it's ok because I'm going to put it into eternal suffering

>>2991446
Yes, 6 24 hour days.

>>2991450
Most counterfeits ape the true; nobody would counterfeit $13 dollar bills.

>>2991511

It's true because it says that it's true, d'uh. Pay no attention to the fact that every other religion makes this same claim.

>>2991513
No psychos dont feel sad they can fake sadness however. You cant be incapable of guilt and still feel sadness at the same time.

>>2991452
Nobody is in heaven for how good they are.

People are in heaven who believe in God.

>>2991513
>I wouldn't know, I don't associate myself with those kinds of people.

I bet you do. Psychopaths are pretty common, and they're not always so easy to spot.

>>2991453
That's how you know the science is wrong, when it purports to contradict the bible. Haven't you noticed in your very short lifetime that science is always wrong?

>>2991513
>>2991505

It doesn't really matter because Hell is not just for psychopaths, almost everyone who has ever lived goes there, and everyone gets the same punishment (eternal unbearable suffering).

>>2991521
Obviously if they listened to a fucking snake over their creator they didn't have a ton of faith.

>>2991454
>shown how to be saved

Thanks God!

>>2991525
>Haven't you noticed in your very short lifetime that science is always wrong?
It seems to be better at healing people than faith.

>>2991458
Jesus is God, and anyone who believed in the coming messiah made it to paradise. And from paradise, to heaven when Jesus rose from the dead after being with them in paradise for 3 days.

>>2991526
So humans genetically destined to be evil must be tortured the same as humans who chose to be evil?

>>2990768
>To truly be good, one has to overcome evil, since there is no good without evil
aren't you forgetting the part where god is literally omnipotent and can make anything be if he so chooses? god could have created a system with zero suffering. instead he created a system with by definition infinite suffering.

>nu uh he didnt create suffering you did
lord fuck off you are so pathetic

>>2991460
Mine are based on the Word of God; his are the ramblings of satanic madmen.

>>2991474
>The closer you get to God, the more you realize how holy He is, and how wicked you are.

And therein lies the failure of the Christian faith to properly identify higher dimensions. The being that the bible refers to as God is the representative of every being in the universe. It is not a separate being from you.

Imagine you had a sheet, and you took one corner as you, and the other corner is God. The bottom right corner of the sheet cannot be anything that the top right corner is not. They are attached permanently. Wherever God goes, you go, wherever you go, God goes.

In this example of course, you can rip the sheet to separate the pieces but we are talking about a plane of existence somewhat beyond human comprehension so imagine that there is nothing in the universe that can separate the sheet and that, if you can, imagine the sheet extends outwards infinitely in all directions.

So when the bible talks about God interacting with another character, it is best imagined as a being talking to itself across a vast chasm of spacetime.

>>2991461
Yes, I think I've already properly called you a madman; no need to keep proving it.

>>2991100
>then explain Jesus rising from the grave, to be alive forevermore.
David Hume.

>explain his disciples all going to gruesome deaths never recanting one iota of the gospel.
Not exclusive to Jesus, similar things happened to the followers of Muhammad.

>explain why we're talking about an itinerant rabbi/carpenter on a Manchurian spice trading board 2000 years later.
Explain why we're talking about Plato or Socrates.
>>they were famous philosophers!
Jesus was a famous preacher.

>>2991517

The Bible is seldom as coherent as that Anon and it's level of moral value and scientific accuracy are much lower, but in terms of metaphysical validity they're about the same.

>>2991398
>Everyone in hell chose hell.
What about those who were born before Christ, who had no opportunity to go anywhere but hell?

>>2991531
>lambasted by multiple different MORTALS on how a being you have only ever heard existed from other MORTALS wants you to do to be saved

Thanks Baptists/Episcopalians/Catholics/Jehovah's Witnesses/Unitarians/etc.

>>2991464
Then you know that you are in direct rebellion against God, and on any reflection, you will realize that your side is going to lose, and in fact has already lost.

It's your prerogative to rebel against God; He gave you that ability, and that right, and will not overrule your own sovereignty, or allow me to.

But you will not evade the consequences.

>>2990773
>infinite punishment
>justice
i suppose justice is shaped by the hand that takes it

>>2991531

God has never told me anything. I have your opinion that an obviously mythological book is the word of god, you have zero evidence for this and your book is less impressive than other comparable holy books. The only reason you take it seriously is because you were indoctrinated into it from childhood.

Do you christfags really think souls still exist when we can remove your cerebrum and "you" will stop existing?

>Infinite punishment
>Ever being justifiable in the face of finite sin

If mortals are by definition finite, and we may only commit sin in this world, the sins we commit must be finite too.

>>2991467
Dogs are not eternal beings.

You are.

Why would a universal entity give a fuck about humans?

>>2991481
I responded to that post. And yes, the universe is black and white, heaven or hell, Jesus or Not Jesus.

>>2991535

No-one chooses to be evil, and no-one could make any meaningful choices at all in a Universe with an omniscient creator. But the punishment is the same, whether you were literally Hitler or a kindly old grandma who had the "free will" to be born a Hindu.

Jewhovah is not omnipotent based on biblical feats he can probably only destroy the sun at best.

>>2991548
>Then you know that you are in direct rebellion against God, and on any reflection, you will realize that your side is going to lose, and in fact has already lost.
All I KNOW is that Christianity seems very clearly to get at least some things wrong.

>>2991553
Not a Christturd but correlation =/= causation, it's unverifiable speculative metaphysics to think of some form of consciousness that would persist without the corresponding matter, but you haven't disproven the claim by saying "I can just kill your brain and that's it".

>>2991483
Our race is the human race. The human race, Adam and Eve, threw in their lot with satan and joined the rebellion against God.

>>2991560
Many people choose to be evil, if you have empathy and still do bad things that means you are choosing to be evil, if you lack empathy and do bad things it means you have no choice but to do evil.

>>2991538

He makes the same claim, and since both your claims are equally ridiculous the obvious conclusion is that you're both relying on the ravings of a madman.

>>2991112

Don't you think celebrities and politicians make that trade?

>>2991489
It's not an analogy. God the Potter literally made Adam out of dirt. We're made out of dirt, sharing 17 minerals with dirt, and returning to dirt when we die and decompose.

I've been asking a similar set of questions all along.

Is it okay with you that God makes what He wants to make, and uses what He wants to use for His own purposes? Is that okay?

I understand your inference, but it is expressly set out in the bible that it is not God's will that any should perish but that all come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Because we also know most people end up in hell, it must be our will that controls, and not God's. His will is that none should perish.

>>2991564
Souls make life pointless, life can already exist without souls so what is the point of souls, some sort of connection to another universe or some shit?

Also the same way your brain determines who you are, the makeup of your souls would determine who you are.

I believe a scientific soul is possible for very advanced civilzations who figured out how to materialize their consiousness into an energy like intangible form of "stuff" though.

>>2991567
Precisely zero people have ever chosen any action in the entire history of humanity. There is no choice.

With sufficient technological advancements every single action you will ever take throughout your life can be measured and shown to you.

>>2991495
White Mohammad. Same angel. Same New Revelation. Same different gospel about a different Jesus. Equally accursed.

>>2991576
Dirt isnt even the same chemical makeup as us you fucking retard.

We are carbon dumbass.

>>2991498
Jesus claims it dozens of times, which is why the Jews tried to kill him for calling himself God. Many times. Most times He just walked right through them.

Every time Jesus said I Am, He is saying He is I Am, or YHWH, aka God.

>>2991509
By His Word, the Word of God, I am referring to Jesus. The Logos.

File: 6dabfb0ca9226044a5f7412f5cd43ae5.jpg (117KB, 648x960px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 648x960px

In Orthodoxy, hell is the experience of God's loving radiance while being dissonant with it.

>>2991514
I covered that above.

2. Make automaton universe. No love.

>>2990732 it's not that's why hell doesn't exist. It's a made up concept that has nothing to do with God

>>2991580
???
I don't care, I'm saying you haven't presented an argument with your post.
I don't believe in souls.

>>2991123

I think you can do bad and be physically punished without sadistic motives. You know that too. But I'm also struggling to believe in God with the idea of hell.

As for the latter I'm p sure they go to heaven

>>2991576
>understand your inference, but it is expressly set out in the bible that it is not God's will that any should perish but that all come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.


Actions speak louder than words.

File: respectallgenders.jpg (31KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 480x480px

>>2991540
Okay buddy, keep reading your bedtime stories, I'm sure they'll come in handy some day. At least I know what I'm saying sounds like utter nonsense. When you talk about things that cannot be properly observed as though you've observed them, you will sound like a fucking idiot no matter what you say.

I will say this: I believe wholly in what I wrote. It seems more plausible to me than anything in the Bible and I feel some of it will be proven by experiments with quantum physics.
60+ years from now we'll have figured out how to put our souls into machines and it will be because we've given up the foolish idea that once you die your existence just fucking ends. Nothing else in the universe works this way. Matter or energy, cannot be just blipped out of existence.

>>2991576
So in this analogy, is God just bad at making pots, or is he actively malevolent?

>>2991529
It wasn't faith; faith is the abillity to believe without seeing.

It was belief. God said eat this and you will die.

The devil said no, did God really say that? Look at it, it's not poisonous. You can eat it, and know good and evil, and be like God.

They believed the devil over their own Creator, whom they knew personally and saw with their own eyes.

Eve was deceived; Adam was not, but sinned anyway. That was the part that damned all of us. That's the bad news.

The gospel is the good news, that Jesus died to remove the sin barrier between us and God, and make the Holy Spirit available to live within us again; aka be born again in the Spirit.

>>2991586
>Every time Jesus said I Am, He is saying He is I Am, or YHWH, aka God

No, he doesn't. Also, the Gospels came AFTER Paul, not before him. They reflect HIS theology, not the theology of Jesus.

>>2991587

Did Jesus write the Bible? No? Then you don't have his words.

>>2991533
You take God out of the equation on the science side, believing that He has nothing to do with it. To your error.

And I have seen miracle healings where science was baffled, before during and after. I've never seen a doctor do anything that baffled God.

Hell doesnt even fucking exist IN THE BIBLE.

Its a myth made up by Christfags to make people more likely to adopt their batshit crazy religion

http://www.thehypertexts.com/No%20Hell%20in%20the%20Bible.htm

>>2991606
>And I have seen miracle healings where science was baffled

No you haven't.

>>2991539
God is a separate being from you.

You are autistic and thus have a very difficult time understanding that God is a person.

Hence your ramblings like a madman.

If you focused on your already diagnosed autism, and worked very hard to picture God as a person, you will be better off in the short and long run. Because what you espouse is absolutely satanic.

>>2991606
Most miracles can be handwaved as very random quantum fluctuations with a low probabiltiy.

>>2991606

>literally saying you know what does or doesn't baffle God

insulting

>>2991606
Which still means that science gets things right most of the time. The process just takes a long time to correct itself, sometimes.

>>2991597
>Nothing else in the universe works this way. Matter or energy, cannot be just blipped out of existence.
Yes it does, idiot.
Properties such as speed, circumference or velocity vanish from time to time, obviously they don't leave without leaving anything behind, but if there was energy that cause speed that energy will be preserved and the speed will be annihilated.
If we think consciousness is somehow a property of the interactions of whatever matter your brain is made of, we can say consciousness will vanish, while whatever "fueled" it will remain.
To think of the fuel as some kind of soul or metaphysical stuff is stupid.

You sound just as stupid as religious people.

>>2991613
>God is a separate being from you.

Nope, he's omnipresent which means he cannot be separate from anything.

>>2991542
David Hume gets to say whether or not Jesus rose from the dead?

kek

The followers of Mohammad never claimed Mohammad was God, risen from the dead.

We're not talking about the two most famous Greek philosophers of all time. We're talking about a homeless Jew.

What did Jesus preach, if he was so famous? What did you learn from him?

>>2991543
The things of God are not understandable to brute beasts, so that's a point for the bible being of God, and you being of the rambling madman for understanding his nonsense.

>>2991576
>Is it okay with you that God makes what He wants to make, and uses what He wants to use for His own purposes? Is that okay?
If it's in a way I view as just, then yes absolutely. Why wouldn't you be okay with that?

Oh yes because you're an evil psychopathic subhuman that lies to everyone including himself about enjoying imagining people suffer.

>>2991602
Faith and belief are the two translations of the same word

>>2991620
If humans cannot understand God why should we listen to what the bible says about God you fucking retard?

>>2991545
If they believed in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or if they believed in a messiah, or if they believed in Moses and the prophets, or if they agreed with the Holy Spirit that there is a God, and wanted to be with Him, they ended up in paradise.

Jesus tells a story of two men who go to Hades, one to paradise side and one to torment side, in Luke 6 iirc.

Those people in paradise went to heaven with Jesus when He rose from the dead; the people in torment are still there.

>>2991620

So because your nonsense is incomprehensible, that makes it totally unlike HIS nonsense, because it's incomprehensible?

>>2991619
Yes, David Hume explains very well why you have to be a retard to believe Jesus rose from the dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Miracles

>The followers of Mohammad never claimed Mohammad was God, risen from the dead.
He doesn't have to be God, they gave their lives for him and for their claims that Muhammad had rode to the moon on a mystical unicorn or whatever.

>We're not talking about the two most famous Greek philosophers of all time. We're talking about a homeless Jew.
I just argued against this point, idiot.
We're talking about a massively famous homeless Jew, Plato obviously wasn't born as the man he was.
This is a simple point you failed to grasp.

>>2991546
It's always been about being one-on-one with your Creator; no group can save you, only God Himself. And He does not need any group, or anything but your consent.

No church ever saved anyone, and no church ever will.

>>2991552
He has, actually. Your body, your mind, your world view are so loud that they drown him out. He speaks in a still, small voice in the back of your head.

You can fast for three days and listen for him, if you'd like, or you can read the bible He inspired through His men, and His prophets, and His Son.

>>2991553
Absolutely. The soul is separate from the body.

>>2991613
>You are autistic and thus have a very difficult time understanding that God is a person.
No you fucking fool, God is not a person. A person is an idea from Earth, were we all perceive each other as individual organisms. At higher dimensions, such as "heaven", the idea of a "person" no longer applies, all life at those higher dimensions is part of a single entity that we call "God" and pretend is a white, grey-bearded sky magician in our children's bedtime stories.

You cannot comprehend God if you think of Him as an individual being that exists somewhere in the Universe. You are lying to yourself and others. God is every being on the planet, including you and I.

>>2991633
>give yourself brain damage and you'll believe!

I'm sure that's how you """found god"""

>>2991554
If your offenses are against an eternal being, your punishments will also be eternal.

And we are not finite beings; we were made to live with God forever.

>>2991595
There is no hell God never created it. It's made up by men

>>2991563
There's only two things to Christianity, and neither one is wrong.

Jesus is God.
Jesus rose from the dead after paying the sin debt of humanity.

>>2991569
He never said his ramblings were from the bible, but from other sources and his own experiences. You can believe whatever you want. But lying about nonsense gets you nowhere.

>>2991618
He's distinct. Panentheism is not pantheism

>>2991651
So... everyone talking about Christianity in this thread is wrong, then?

>>2991585
There's carbon in dirt dude. 0.03% of the earth's crust is carbon.

>>2991650
God in the bible never mentions Hell only Heaven showing it was made by Christfags.

>>2991555
Actually dogs ARE eternal beings. All life is. Even the bacteria on your hands right now has a kind of link to the cosmic ether, and when it dies it will be born into a more complex single-celled organism and so on.

>>2991633
If you actually hear voices in your head, please for the sake of everyone around you go to a doctor.

>>2991654
>But lying about nonsense gets you nowhere.

So you'll be giving up your kike worship?

>>2991594
Does your disbelief mean souls don't exist?

>>2991661
We are not the same as dirt though.

>>2991596
And the actions of Jesus on the cross speak louder than anything.

>>2991597
If you believe in it, go back to your first post and demonstrate where in the bible each one of your assertions exists.

>>2991656

God is neither, he's omnipresent. That means he is equally present everywhere in Creation (and beyond). There is no part of reality that is not 100% God. We humans and other natural phenomena are an illusion, there is only God.

>>2991598
It's meant to give the pot some perspective.

>>2991603
Believe whatever you want to believe; what you believe is satanic and there are consequences for calling the bible false.

>>2991661

You realise humans are mostly water?

>>2991604
Is the Holy Spirit, Jesus?
Did the Holy Spirit inspire each of the 40 men who wrote the 66 books of the bible over 1500 years, bringing all things to their remembrance?

Then we do have Jesus' words.

>>2991667

Unless the voice says that it's God, in which case you should found a new religion.

>>2991610
Four, in fact. But you can live your life like an animal and deny the numinous, if you'd like.

>>2991677
>believe my book or else!

Now THAT'S something a human wrote, no doubt about it.

>>2991615
It's quite easy to say that nothing mankind does, or will ever do, or has ever done, has ever baffled God. Because it's true.

>>2991616
It's always wrong, and a generation or two always proves it's wrong. And the bible just keeps on being true.

>>2991682
>Is the Holy Spirit, Jesus?

No.

>Did the Holy Spirit inspire each of the 40 men who wrote the 66 books of the bible over 1500 years, bringing all things to their remembrance?

Again, no.

>>2991618
Can He be where He wants to be? Is that okay with you?

>>2991682
>Is the Holy Spirit, Jesus?
Not if you believe in the trinity.

Christianity is a religion for stupid animals its literally BE GOOD AND GET A REWARD the religion.

Christians are more wicked than non christians, look how christians brag about going to Heaven in an egotistically manner which is similar to a sociopath bragging about their privileges over people.

>>2991311
>Ask for God's assistance, because it is required.
And what form will this assistance take?

>>2991621
Everything God does is just.

>>2991684

And you can live your life as an animal that thinks itself superior for believing in fairy tales as an adult.

>>2991688
It's always right eventually, because science is a process, not a conclusion. Bible just wasn't true at any point. Or at least, not true enough to give us antibiotics.

>>2991623
Nope. They're similar, but faith has the context of things not grasped, things not seen. Belief without seeing.

Belief is belief, seeing or no.

>>2991690
>Can He be where He wants to be?

No, because he is OMNI. PRESENT. That means he is everywhere, all the time. He has no choice in this, any more than he choose not to be omnipotent.

>>2991627
Because the Word of God is nonsense to you, you can know, for sure, that you are a child of the devil.

If you're okay with that, refuse to be saved.

>>2991642
>implying it's even possible to offend against an infinite being
>being such a disgusting subhuman animal that you think saying "i dont think that's real" would even be considered an offense in the first place
you must have a terribly low opinion of god if you think he's that despicably petty

or maybe it is you that is the one that is despicably petty, and you project that pettiness onto your god.

>>2991700
>He has no choice in this, any more than he choose not to be omnipotent.
If he's omnipotent, he can indeed choose to not be omnipotent. Otherwise he's not really omnipotent in the first place.

>>2991629
Wow, you should re-read your posts, and maybe never post again. I'm almost embarrassed for you at this point.

>>2991702

Again, he can say literally exactly the same thing. His demented incoherent gibberings are EXACTLY as valid as yours.

>>2991639
Is it okay if not all persons are from earth? If not all persons are human? If not all persons are human hybrids? If not all persons are angels?

Is that okay with you?

>>2991707

If it is possible for a being to be unable to do something, that being cannot be omnipotent. If an omnipotent being is capable of not being omnipotent, then it is possible for it to be unable to do something, therefore it was never omnipotent to begin with.

>>2991659
People conflate Christianity with many other things in the bible, but the question as to whether "everything about Christianity is true" hinges only on those two things. That Jesus is God, and that He rose from the dead. Say that, believe that, and you are a Christian.

>>2991666
atomic particles pop in and out of existence all the time

eventually given enough time time, all the particles that make up your body will have literally disappeared from existence entirely. not just transferred into another state of being. just gone.

>>2991667
Where do you hear voices? In your elbow?

>>2991719
So all the babbling about hell is irrelevant, then?

>>2991668
Ironically, hating Jews will land you in hell with the worst Jews known to mankind, forever.

>>2991717
Not being able to attain a state of not being able to do something is the same as being unable to do something.

>>2991670
In a thousand years, your body will be dirt. God made us out of dirt, and luckily for us, remembers that he made us out of dirt. Hence we get some slack that the angels do not get.

>>2991725

I have no problem with kikes, but I wouldn't go so far up their assholes as to start worshipping one.

>>2991680
You realize Hydrogen and Oxygen abound in the earth's crust?

>>2991686
Believe God, or else.

FTFY

>>2991729

Yes, omnipotence is an inherently self-contradictory concept.

>>2991691
The same trinity that says the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and there is One God?

That trinity?

>>2991721
do you think you're being clever or something?
because that sort of childish attempt at wit isn't clever, it's pitiful.

>>2991736

So water is dirt? Is there anything by this retarded standard that ISN'T dirt? You realise the Sun is made of the same elements as the "dirt", right? So is the Sun dirt?

>>2991743
Exactly. Holy Spirit is God, and Jesus is God, but Holy Spirit is not Jesus.

>>2991738

Again, God doesn't say this, only the books written by men do.

>>2991723
If you are saved through believing in Christ it will be.

>>2991751
That's a non-answer.

>>2991739
omnipotence includes the power of bring able to ignore logic. its the ultimate theological defense.

>>2991751

So Jesus knowingly lies to trick people into worshipping him? That's pretty Satanic behavior. This is on the same level as God burying fossils to trick scientists into think the world is millions o years old, literally fooling them into eternal damnation.

>>2991693
He is near your mouth, that you can confess Jesus is Lord; He is near your heart, that you can believe God raised Him from the dead.

Romans 10
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

No one can do this without the assistance of the Holy Spirit. Hence it is supernatural knowledge, and useful for separating the saved from the phony saved.

>>2991696
I'll live my life developing a relationship with the living God that will require an eternity to fully flesh out.

>>2991761

Too bad you'll die and forget it, same as everyone else. You know your god is only in your head, right?

>>2991697
And yet God gave the Jews thorough hand washing regimens and strict dietary controls.....

Do you honestly think mankind will ever know as much as God, the Creator of the universe?

Because the wisdom of man, aka science, is foolishness to God.

>>2991700
So it's not okay with you if God goes where He chooses, for reasons.

That if He has the ability to do something, He has to do it always every time forever.

You're God's Keeper.

>>2991766
>And yet God gave the Jews thorough hand washing regimens and strict dietary controls.....
Which, it turns out, aren't that good for them? There's nothing bad about eating pork that doesn't apply to eating other kinds of red meat. For the most part, those dietary restrictions are just nonsense.

>>2991769
>for reasons.

Those reasons are called "logic", applied to YOUR claim that your sky wizard is omnipresent.

>>2991195
The worst thing about this entire discussion can be seen in your poor metaphor of false equivalence

Unlike God we didn't make the sun and the laws of physics that cause it to rise, likewise God makes our mind, our environment, and the logic we use to make decisions, all with omniscience and omnipotence
>Tfw God made everyone from the most righteous to the most vile to be exactly as they are, which is morally good as he is the originator of morality

>With omnipotence God somehow, even though we are not eternal, gave us freewill whereas our choices are entirely our fault
>That means God is a sadist who finds intrinsic value in suffering because if omnipotence holds sway over logic there would be no real benefit to suffering that can't be granted without its price due to omnipotence
>>2990732
Everyone in this thread is silly that doesn't understand that God IS good, thus hell is a place of a complete lack of good, which isn't very pleasant by definition

>>2991761
When are you going to start? Because the only thing being a shit eater on 4chan develops is a carpal tunnel.

>>2991703
I said nothing about offending God; I said your crimes are against an eternal God. And thus require an eternal punishment.

Push your brother, you might get spanked.
Push your teacher, you might get expelled.
Push your principal, you will get expelled.
Push your mayor, you might get arrested.
Push your governor, you will get arrested.
Push the president, you will get arrested and go away for a long, long time.
Push the King and you will be killed.
Push God and you will be confined to the outer darkness.

Same offence, different dignitaries, different punishments.