Why are people so butthurt about it? The Greek Empire was a political

It sure was peaceful of them when some Turks marched onto my farm and took my son away at the point of a blade and forced him to convert to their heathen religion so he could fight in their slave army. Thanks Mehmet.

>>2989429
Your son would get a chance at having a career and serving the state.
Thats more social mobility than you could find anywhere else.

>>2989429
>waah conscription is unfair

>>2989429

history does repeat itself, doesn't it?

>>2989429
Might is right. Cope. The Greek Empire didn't deserve to exist.

>>2989429
Your welcome Radic

>>2989431
>Your son would get a chance at having a career and serving the state.

You mean he'd be taken as a small child into lifelong slavery, and raised as a Muslim? Yeah, thanks.

>>2989477
i am not sure you know what slavery means

>>2989502
>Greek Empire
Top lek you aren't even trying to make your bait thread subtle

>>2989435
Devshirme isn't conscription.

>>2989507
who are you replying to?

>>2989477
Yeah lifelong slavery with wages and a pension that is many times higher than whatever a farmboy could ever earn let alone an education in times when it was rare and so in general a way more comfortable life.

>>2989570
Money that often was sent back to the home villages to support the families and communities.

It had its pros and cons.

>>2989418
thanks to justianus plaugue and 4th crusade, byzant was a fucking mess.

>>2989510
>le Devshirme=brainwashed slave soldier meme

i dont expect most of the butthurt balkanites to stop being butthurt peasant but please try to understand the concept at least, the devshirme is is essentialy ottoman proto-eugenics, children raised by the devshirme can advance thair carrer not only towards military but also other non-military position in the ottoman state such as architect, judges and administrator with pensions and wages, these level of social mobility was miles ahead other european countries at the time with their feudal serfs, it even got the the point where they can undermine the sultans authority (which led to problem to the ottomans in the long run), there were even stories of muslim families bribing ottoman official to take their children into the devshirme.

hell i mean look at this shit and try to count how many balkan people were there thanks to the devshirme

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottoman_Grand_Viziers


tldr, balkanites are ungrateful apes and the turks shouldve genocided all of you instead of letting you all keep your identity and shitup the balkan even further

It's really sad to see what has happened to the Greek people over the years. Once a power people filled with innovation and rich culture...now is a bunch of pseudo-arabs

>>2989507
>muh romans
The trade route across the rivers connecting Baltic and Black seas was called from Varangians to the Greeks way before Constantinople fell.

>>2989418
To call the Byzantine Empire(Eastern Rome) a ''Greek'' Empire shows that you have no idea.

>>2989685
That's how it was called in Europe at that time

>>2989685
>eastern """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""'roman""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" empire

>>2989429
Actually, many of them gave their children voluntarily. Those kids became elite soldiers, servants in the palace, or even civil servants. They were treated with respect, had not to starve, lived a better life as a farmer or a Turkish Sipahi soldier.

>>2989418
Regarding the Greeks...
What happened to the ancient Greeks?

>>2989444
Neither did the Ottofail empire :^)

>>2989418
>peace
Post Vienna, Ottomans were pretty much constantly roflstomped by Austria and Russia.

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>>2989688
Reminder.

>>2989418
You know nothing . Even the greatest sultan killed his loyal son, his best friend a greek that have him everything. Ottomans are shit people that got they hands in firearms from persia and lived off the bizantino empire greatness. Thats it

>>2989601
What part of being forced to serve a foreign conqueror do you not understand?

>>2989418
because after that they started to attack the west

>>2989418
>peace

Pay me more moni cuz ur not mudslime ://///

Because a greek Constantinople and a Greek Anatolia would've been way cooler. Imagine a world where the Roman Empire still exists.

The only thing cooler than that would be if the Turks converted to Orthodoxy and claimed to be the Enperor. Imagine a Christian, heavily Greek influenced (instead of Arab) Ottoman Empire? Fucking badass.

But it was 1204 that sealed their fate, not 1453.

>>2992532
>Turko-Romano-Greek Orthodox gunpowder empire
Thanks for my new fetish.

>>2992532
Imagine how terrible they would be to interact with though. They'd make turkposters and we wuzzers look productive.

>>2992532
Imagine a world were the Roman Empire as a whole continued existing and was able to fortify Europe and its North African holdings and the Levant along natural borders.

Imagine chilling out or living anywhere along the coastline of the Mediterranean or Black Sea without fear of being enriched.

>>2989429
the byzantine economic system was very unpopular and exploitative in the last centuries. christians and everyone else breathed a sigh of relief when it was all over. the ottoman regime was a lot less exacting

>>2989687
by who?

>Turks take Constantinople
>leads to Europe colonising the world to find a better trade route

Really made me think!

>>2993258
Source.

>>2993288
And here I thought the Mongols really got them going?

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>>2993290

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>>2993472

>>2993472
>>2993481
>tfw actual history in a /his/torionics thread
What are you, an adult?

>>2989418
>Ottoman occupation was not occupation
>Balkan slavery was not slavery
>Terrorists are not muslims

Getting tired of all this dissimulation lad

I agree the Byzantine Empire was (like all autocracies from Egypt to China) culturally stifling and troubled. But the Ottomans were no solution. They held Eastern Europe away from the Renaissance, Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution. The Turks were not innovative or inventive - and their brutal rule was loathed even by the Arabs as barbaric.

>>2992532
>Because a greek Constantinople and a Greek Anatolia would've been way cooler. Imagine a world where the Roman Empire still exists.
Then Greeks would be even more indebt and we would have to pay even more money to bail them. No thanks.
History shows that Greeks are completely incapable of oganizing a nation, the bigger their country, the more misery it will cause

>>2992996
>Imagine chilling out or living anywhere along the coastline of the Mediterranean or Black Sea without fear of being enriched.
you mean, like our world before arab spring?

>>2993266
by catholics

>>2989418
Better dead than a mohammedan

>>2993515
I think you are mixing up early and late Ottoman Empire.
Just because Ottomans eventually failed to adapt to political and technological change, doesn't mean they were shit in 15th century

>>2993515
Also: Eleiminating the Aristocracy had probably long-term consequences.

>>2993554
ANYWHERE! Without those pesky restrictions imposed by Muslims.

The towns and everything would look very different. There'd probably be tons of streets flanked by olive trees. And other agriculture.
No focus on pasture farming.

>>
They didn't adapt because they were inept. They didn't advance because they couldn't.

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It was perfect.

>>2993627
It lasted for more than a thousand years too. It is considered one of the most stable empires in world history.

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>>2993627

>tfw spend all your life building a comfy multicultural empire, with nice borders, very good economy, and a huge standing state army.

>tfw all your successors fuck it up.

>>2989604
That's not true actually, there is a study posted over on /pol/ with huge sampling that claims they are the same people they always were.

It's just that even once great people can fall to corruption and poverty.

I wonder what the modern west leaves behind once it's gone.

I thought the Ancient Greeks got displaced.

>>2993677
Yeah sure, to this day Greeks leave Greece.
Here in Australia we have huge communities of Greeks.

But they are the same people since the first Indo-European invasions apparently.

Joke's on us, our civilization was created by swarthies.

>>2993653

Wewuz Leonidas and shiet.

Modern Greece has about the same level of legitimacy as FYROM.

>>2989444

I bet you don't apply this logic to native Americans, Africans and everyone else who has supposedly been oppressed by the ebil white man.

Might makes right? White makes right :^)

>>2993696
Let's get this out of the way I'm not Greek nor do I pretend to be.

Why do you say that?
They speak the same language their ancestors did and they have the same genetics their ancestors did.

We wuz is nice and all, but barring genocide on massive scale, it's very hard to kill a whole race of people.

I mean there are still Assyrians, Aborigines and Amerindians. They where displaced and killed in ways and in scale that never happened in Greece and they still exist.

Why would the Greeks be different? They was not even mass genocide happening in their country. Only the Greeks in Asia Minor were killed as I understand it.

>>2989418
>Fanboy of a dead empire trolling fanboys of another dead empire
/his/ in a nutshell.

>>2993727

It's tough being an Ottoman fanboy. Between dodging questions about the missing Armenians, ignoring a failure to develop technologically, and worshiping a literal pedophile, there's barely enough to blame the West for fucking up the wet despite it being an irredeemable hell hole for centuries prior. It's a rough gig.

Meanwhile Rome and Byzantium are universally revered. I can understand the ottofag butthurt.

>>2993708
I don't know.

First you got the Romans, then Alexander did his thing and the Ottomans did stuff too. There was also the great migration and the black death.

A quick search did not give me a satisfying answer.

...
Found something:
On March 8, 2017, an international scientific research was published in the European Journal of Human Genetics, which proved that, despite their genetical variations, the Greeks of Peloponnese are genetically connected with Sicilians and Italians of Southern Italy and have no relations with Slavic DNA.

It seems I read about this guy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Philipp_Fallmerayer ) on Metapedia (I know.) AND read a /pol/-Pasta about People from Wales being closer to (unmixed?) Ancient Greeks than todays Modern Greeks.

>>2993768
Well. Had they behaved more like their Christian Brethren in war, (and gotten a printing press), they might have accomplished more.

Shitting on Atatürk's legacy probably did not help.

>>2993791
>First you got the Romans then Alexander did his thing.

Uhhh think again.

>It seems I read about this guy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Philipp_Fallmerayer )

The study I read on /pol/ was written to disprove him.

I'll try to find it gimme a sec.

>>2993768
>Meanwhile Rome and Byzantium are universally revered
Rome, sure
Bzantinum, not really

>>2993791
http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/fallmerayer/

Here it is, some juicy parts:

The most complete study of Greek skeletal material from Neolithic to modern times was carried out by American anthropologist J. Lawrence Angel who found that in the early age racial variability in Greece was 7% above average, indicating that the Greeks had multiple origins within the Europid racial family. Angel noted that from the earliest times to the present “racial continuity in Greece is striking.” Buxton who had earlier studied Greek skeletal material and measured modern Greeks, especially in Cyprus, finds that the modern Greeks “possess physical characteristics not differing essentially from those of the former [ancient Greeks].”

And

We summarize our conclusions:
Modern Greeks are physically similar to ancient Greeks.
Modern Greeks are contrasted to northern populations, including Slavs and Albanians in different genetic marker systems: mtDNA, Y chromosomes, and autosomal DNA.
Modern Greeks retain characteristics of a southern European population of indigenous, pre-Slavic, Balkan origin.
Both in its crudest form (complete anhilation) and in its weaker form (significant northern admixture) the Fallmerayer thesis has been falsified by anthropological evidence.
It should be noted that some admixture probably did take place, although this was not sufficient to alter the genetic characteristics of the previous inhabitants of Greece. This author does not claim that genetic purity is an ideal for the Greek people, but simply that genetic continuity is established by the evidence.

>>2993842
Is that the study I quoted from wikipedia?

>>2989418

>Why are people so butthurt about it?

Because it's massively overrated. And I say this as a Turk.

The early Ottoman Empire was fantastic but it had begun to stagnate as early as the late 17th century.

The Empire left all of its former possessions horribly underdeveloped as it fell apart. It was incompetently administered for centuries until it finally kicked the bucket.

The Republic of Turkey did more to advance the common Turk in its first 50 years than the Empire did in its entire existence. I absolutely loath Turkish Ottaboos for this reason. They cling to this vainglorious fantasy about how great this 'Turkish' empire was while ignoring how it treated Turks like absolute scum.

>>2993983
Basically Erdogan is turning back the wheel to the "incompetently managed" (by Arab influences) part.

>>2993983
please, the young turk revolution was merely roleplay,

all they achieved is increase your debt by 1000 times and lose most of your clay.

>>2993983
probably because the ottoman empire isn a turkish empire, you call someone from the ottoman court a turk and he'll have you beheaded. the upper class which controlled the empire was mostly european convert from the devshirme and the european jannisaries