How would this subcontinent develop if there wouldn't be

>>2972267
If you have to ask "how would China/India/X country develop without colonialism", look at Japan.
Japan got the best version of it - modern education to get revolutionaries, guns to arm them, western reforms to start proper manufacturing and so on.

So there would've been a few western educated indians, they would preach about how shit and backwards everything is, they'd get a crowd, arm them with western guns, and take over the place. This would inspire further revolutions and counter revolutions, the properly armed side will win, unification will be achieved, and modernization would begin.

>>2972276
>le every country is like japan meme
Oh wise one, tell me then why for instance Thailand, or Ethiopia, never developed like Japan, despite never being colonized.

>>2972276
What i was asking about was how would the borders look. If India would still be unified, or the cultural differences are too high for it to happen naturally

>>2972291
Borders would be similar to today, I think? Desert in the north-west, mountains in the north-east, coasts all over otherwise.
Perhaps it wouldn't have that tumor in Eastern Pakistan area.

>>2972276
Nah
Different race, different mentality, different political landscape, not to mention India is very diverse and divided while Japan is homogenous both Ethnically and culturally
>>2972291
The only reason India borders (and Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, etc.) looks like it is today is because of the Brits, it would been even more divided

>>2972298
>Japan is homogenous both Ethnically and culturally

ahahhahahahaHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

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>>2972267
Really makes you think

>>2972304
You could count Ryukryuans and Jomons, but they're not even considered Japanese, or humans for that matter
You couldn't say the same with India Hindu/Muslims/Sikh/god knows what else relation

>>2972312
I won't reply further, seeing how the first difference between India and Japan to you is "race", you think the hard working japanese existed before the modernization there, and you thought Japan was culturally or even religiously unified before that point. And now "they aren't human lol".

You are bad at history and a bad person.

>>2972312
*Jomon=Ainu

>>2972281
Thailand were the biggest weebs and stormweenies in the early 20th century and Ethiopia got wrecked right as they were getting their shit together.

>>2972318
Glad to see other people actually bother to study Japanese history instead of repeating memes.

>>2972318
>, you think the hard working Japanese existed before the modernisation there
Of course they have, one forgotten thing about modernisation is how important it is for necessary infrastructure and pre-societal condition to exist for a country to modernise successfully
The Japanese are particularly quick in this since they're very conformed and unified, of course there's resistance but even then its more about class and political struggle (Shogunate vs Emperor) more than racial-religious conflict that would happen anywhere else

>>2972334
Its important to remember that the Japan we're talking about is the Yamato country, and not the modern Japan that includes minority from Okinawa, etc, which are not even counted as "Yamato people" at the time

>>2972328
Thailand is a third world shithole far from Japan tier.

>>2972334
>since they're very conformed and unified
The first thing they did when they got guns was start a civil war.

>>2972345
Thailand have their own brand of reformers, but they're too close to Frenchs and the British, they're essentially french puppet state

>annual growth rates of Japanese GDP per capita over the period 725-1874 and a number of sub-periods. Over the whole period, GDP per capita grew at an annual rate of 0.04% and, as in Britain, this growth was persistent from the medieval period onwards, with periods of strong positive growth that were not followed by sustained growth reversals. The major periods of positive per capita GDP growth occurred during 1150-1280, 1450-1600 and again after 1730. This latter period of growth during the late Tokugawa period led on to a further acceleration in the rate of growth as Japan made the transition to modern economic growth during the Meiji period.

>>2972347
The civil war has already begun before guns arrive there
I think they're not as conforming in that era, most of what we count as Japanese mentality / cultural refinement was harnessed during Tokugawa era 300 years isolation

>>2972345
It is now. It was basically on par with South Korea in the first half of the 20th century, it had like 50-70% of the Japanese GDP per capita most of that time (proof that they were keeping up), and it started lagging behind the rest of EA and SEA since the post-war regimes ruined everything, the great divergence happened in the 70s in particular.
It's like in Latin America.

>>2972318
You misunderstood me, I don't even say that I considered them subhuman, its the Japanese at t time which considers them so
For reference: https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=041577263X

>>2972359
The modern japanese worker drone is not a Tokugawa thing, its a post-fascist liberation through labor thing. The germans got it too. When you have to rediscover yourself as a pacifist people after having your pride broken, you end up working really, really fucking hard, turns out.

>>2972349
The worst thing is that they fell for the free trade lie and largely rejected dirigisme, tariffs and export-oriented industrialization. I thought "kicking away the ladder" was a socialist conspiracy theory until I saw clear examples, notably Thailand.

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>make a thread about India
>everybody talks about Japan

>>2972305
>cow belt is cancer
dehumanisation and enforced serfdom when?

>>2972422
people don't know or care about india unless you are indian.

>>2972404
The roots of it were already present in early nihonjinron theories (that actually poisoned most of East Asian thought thanks to the Japanese influence and the German philosophy it ultimately derived from) that sought to define "the national character" in essentialist terms that obviously benefited the purposes of the elites, ostensibly as a break from Tokugawa oriental backwardness.

>>2972404
>having your pride broken
Nah thats an exclusively white people thing, didn't happen to Japan

>>2972281
Wasn't Ethiopia an Italian colony ?

>>2972431
Look at protests on tax raises, and on military spending raises in Japan.
Japanese would rather pay more tax than have more fighter planes. Even when an american ape rapes someone in a military base, there is a protest and a counter protest, since japanese would rather have american mercenaries raping, than have their own army.
They hate war now, and pride themselves on hard work. Instead of devoting your life to the empire, you devote it to the corporation.

>>2972432
Only its coasts, the mountains were left alone for the most part, and only fell just before WW2.

>>2972430
The seed of it was already there by the Tokugawa era with Kokugaku tradition of 17th-18th century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokugaku
>The Kokugaku school held that the Japanese national character was naturally pure, and would reveal its splendour once the foreign (Chinese) influences were removed. The "Chinese heart" was different from the "true heart" or "Japanese Heart". This true Japanese spirit needed to be revealed by removing a thousand years of Chinese learning.[2]

>>2972435
Hating war =/= losing pride
They don't have the self hating liberal that we have in the west

>>2972298
>is because of the Brits
I've talked about this before, that it may have been grouped together under the British but it was thanks to philosophical teachings from the French enlightment that kept them together.
India's only ever been united three times in its history. First under the Mauryan Empire, then briefly under Augrenzab from the Mughal empire and then finally the British.
The British may have gotten a bunch of war torn nation's together, but like always, it's the French that came the extra mile in the end.

>>2972462
* that it was kept together.

>>2972462
if you are being technical the brits kept large parts of india as client states. The last major land grab they had ended with the company rule's brutal demise

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>>2972452
This is the % who ressponded "Yes" to the question - "Will you go and fight for your country?".
Japan went from being 100% all war and nothing but war, a literal world conquest God emperor society, to what they are today. You can be damn sure the old ways were broken.
Just like the German war spirit was broken, and they discovered a new way to pride - through work, so did the Japanese.

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>>2972452
They literally have various "Anti-Japonist" and "Anti-Japaneist" groups that carried out terror campaigns because they believed Japan should collectively commit sudoku to apologize for being a fundamentally tainted, inherently imperialist country and would do the world a favor by ceasing to exist. Basically they had a half-century headstart in leftist radicalism.
They do have your boogiemen liberals too, they just aren't prominent.

>>2972452
The left in Japan is so far left, that you can't even recognize it as a sensible political movement.

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>>2972490
They already gone by 1980s, most political group/militias are nationalist now, and the thing has always been a fringe even by 1950-1980s Japan political mess standard

>>2972511
You seem to be mistaking "after WW2" with "the current year", and "before WW2", with "10th century BC" or something. You dismiss large periods in a few posts in a row.

>>2972503
Yep, they're literally ISIS tier terrorist

>>2972516
I meant that most people say there is no left in Japan, because they look at the left, and assume this is some non-political entity or terrorist organization or whatever. The left is so far left, that people can't recognize its is in fact "the left".
But yeah, its ISIS, except, you know, left.

>>2972511
>most political group/militias are nationalist now
Nope.

For one thing they have the largest Commie party in "Free" Asia.

For another Anti-Japanism happens whenever Nip economy gets into a rough spot. Which, incidentally, is basically the reason why the Jap Commie Party is still in play.

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>>2972515
How? if we're talking about Japanese pride, generally they never have their pride broken, either after wwii or current era, so much that they refuse guilt shame that currently Koreans and Chinese are doing for their warcrimes, if Japanese are so broken up like Germany, then they will sucumb to anyone and allow mass immigration to Japan, but infact the situation is quite opposite, andI don't even have to remind how racist Japan/east Asians in general was

As for conception of Japanese nationalism, it was there during Tokugawa era, and after Meiji restoration/pre wii 2
>>2972547
They're never relevant though, hardly ever gain power in the government, which has almost always exclusively center right
Anti Japanism is a cult, and a historical one, you find Uyoku Dantai right wing protester much easier than you find a single commie there

>>2972564
*Doing to Japan right now for their warcrimes

>>2972564
They went from "we are God's chosen people who have a mandate and a mission to control all of the world and show our superiority through industry and war" to "I'd rather die than fight a war or invade anyone".
You have to admit there is a change in tone here.

You seem to be very heavily invested in the word pride, replace it with anything else you want, didn't mean to trigger you, only to educate you.

>>2972547
What kind of communism do the Japanese communist have?
I know communism is especially prone to 'no true Scotsman' arguments, so what brand are they offering?

>>2972581
Its just called Japanese Communist Party, has 20-30 seats in parliament, has half a million card holding members, a youth organization, all that.

>>2972576
You said in >>2972404 that the Japanese pride are broken, in which I argues otherwise, of course there's difference mindset but that not the equivalent of German/western mental break

>"we are God's chosen people who have a mandate and a mission to control all of the world and show our superiority through industry and war
You misinterpret Japanese nationalism, and Japan motivation for war in the first place

>>2972586
>Its just called Japanese Communist Party
What do you even mean by this, honestly?

Do you mean they aren't really communist?
If so, are they socialist? Or are they just a little bit left of the center?

>>2972616
>What do you even mean by this, honestly?
>Do you mean they aren't really communist?

Sorry, meant to say that their name is simply "the communist party", as in its nothing fancy or out of the ordinary.
When you asked "what kind of communist party they japanese have", I assumed you expected some japanese flavor of communism, when its a very generic "the party"... party.
They are legit communists, and they are some of the more tame lefties in the country. As stated before, most politically leftists organizations don't participate in elections, and instead sabotage businesses and murder people.

>>2972430
The roots were Confucianism, Buddhism and Asian genetics.

>>2972276
>Ex Empires consisting of multiple religions, ethnicities, and so on.
>"lmao just look at Jepen."

>>2972668
Right, that's why Japan industrialized the 7th century and started exporting Toyotas to the entire world.

>>2972686
>Right, that's why Japan moved the goalposts and I can ignore the rapid industrialization of the 19th century.

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>>2972675
>japan wasn't an ex empire consisting of multiple religions, ethnicities and so on

>>2972694
>I can ignore the entirety of Confucian, Buddhist Mainland Asia to craft a narrative from a special case
>Japan quickly modernized because it was Confucian, Buddhist and genetically Asian even though the most remarkable thing about it was that it was the only industrialized Confucian, Buddhist and genetically Asian country and shattered stereotypes about Confucian, Buddhist and genetically Asian countries being hopelessly backward and set in their ways
>It had nothing to do with the fact that it suddenly opened up and eagerly sought to imitate Western countries, while all the other Confucian, Buddhist and genetically Asian countries remained chauvinistic and closed to foreign influences as the Confucian scholars wished

>>2972668
If the reason is confucianism, buddhism and being asian, why did other confucian, buddhist and asian countries not have the same outcome?

>>2972706
It wasn't
>inb4 east Asian co-prosperity sphere
Happened after modernisation

>>2972720
>I'm going to conflate the roots of a cause with the cause itself.
>I'm also going to ignore the fact that Mainland Asia had been generally more advanced than Europe until the 16th century.
>I'm only pretending to be retarded.

>>2972668
"The steady, systematic work to which we Nordic people were educated is unknown here on the average."

"Constant work has hardly been known in Japan"

"The Japanese worker is hardly willing to submit himself to the military discipline which according to our standards must rule the modern factory. He takes his holiday whenever he likes, he comes and goes as he pleases, and if he is scolded for such behavior, he leaves the company."

"Karl Scherzer, a member of the first Austro-Hungarian delegation to the Far East, wrote in his diary shortly after the Meiji Restoration that the Japanese seemed much more cheerful, pleasure-seeking, and given to drink and showed more aversion to work than the Chinese he had observed."

"they have no desire to save"
"most take the day after payday off"
"few give any thought to a lifelong career"

Absenteeism was low during the winter months between November and January, but predictably high during July and August. Everybody came to work on the 5th of the month---it was payday---but heavy pockets made for lazy workers and lots of hooky playing between the 6th and the 9th. When most of their wages were gone, workers began to get serious about their jobs again. All the workers would work most hard on the 20th, which was when the books were closed for wage calculations. The report understandably describes this as a "cavalier attitude towards work."

As the report from the NIRA (National Institute for Research Advancement), Japan's largest private think tank, concludes: "With the exception of a few core workers, the industrial workers of the Meiji and Taisho periods had poor attitudes towards their work. . . .They were unstable and usually absent for 1O% to 20% of prescheduled work." It also notes that workers "had little sense of, belonging to their companies; attrition rates were high, retention rates low." Finally, "it was not until after WWII, from between 1950 and 1955, that diligence emerged and played a visible role."

>>2972737
They all did eventually, even while hampered by commies in China case

>>2972770
You haven't studied Japanese history at all. What you claim is fundamentally wrong, and you should read any book on Japanese history to learn of the internal and religious conflicts it had for most of its history, as well as its invasions and temporary control over land that is today Korea, Russia and China.

>>2972781
Yeah man, Mongolia is an industrial powerhouse.
And eventually isn't an argument, every country gets there eventually. And the confucianist, buddhist asian ones got there after for example the muslim turkic country of Turkey, or even fucking Mexico.

You can't solve this one by screaming about racial purity.

>>2972786
It'll be much easier to list those religions and ethnics than to virtue signalling anon

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>>2972478
Finland warrior race stronk

>>2972777
Fucking weebs need to understand that Japan was an irrelevant shithole for most of history.
The only 'asian' nation that was always worth a damn was always China.

>>2972797
t. ping pong

>>2972795
Mercenary monks, monastery fortresses, Buddhist sects holy wars, ikko ikki, etc are not signs of religious unity.
Unless you think the reformation wars in Europe are also religious unity, since lol they are all christian :D

As far as ethnicity, Japan was like Germany, not a single unity of people who all agree they are the same thing. This came much later. They had different traditions, worship, government types at points, and fought each other all the time.

>>2972793
Mongols aren't Confucian
They've always been historically savages anyway

>>2972810
>people who disprove me don't count anyway

>>2972805
So you admit there's only two religion in Japan, which is Buddhism and Shintoism, only with different sects, like every religion in the world, correct?
>>2972805
>not a single unity of people who all agree they are the same thing
Nah study Japan native religion, and yes, they're as diverse as any homogenous country with regional varieties in it, not the same as India with their hodgepodge of Persian-Turkic invader, Aryan-dravidian natives, Hindus, Buddhists, sikhs, Muslims, etc, not to mention caste division, its just incomparable
>fought each other all the time.
Nope, there's a period of total civil war like the Sengoku era and a few others, but aside from that, Japan has always been governed by one central ruler/government
>>2972819
You're comparing Sinotic sphere countries like China, Japan, and Korea, to Mongolians which is culturally closer to steppe nomads of central Asia like Kyrgyzstan, Kazazhstan etc. not to mention, they have always been considered barbarians by these Sinotic countries

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>>2972781
>industrialization was hampered by commies, the ones who most aggressively pushed for industrialization and modernization
>it held back the influence of the confucians who had such a positive view of capitalists, commerce, industrialization and modernization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Days'_Reform
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Culture_Movement
For that matter:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyōhō_Reforms#Purpose_of_the_reforms

>>2972869
>there's only two religion in Japan
That's one more than most European countries had, if you're unwilling to count different sects.

>study Japan native religion
Take your own goddamn advice.
>not the same as India with their hodgepodge of Persian-Turkic invader, Aryan-dravidian natives, Hindus, Buddhists, sikhs, Muslims, etc,
Jesus fucking Christ, the most interesting thing about Japan is the highly complex and variable syncretism of 3 or 4 different cultures.

>>2972869
>So you admit there's only two religion in Japan, which is Buddhism and Shintoism, only with different sects, like every religion in the world, correct?
You don't need fifty religions to have religious wars and lack of unity. As I specifically mentioned, and you specifically ignored, the Europeans managed a bunch of holy wars with just one religion. Two is plenty.

>they weren't at war EVERY SINGLE DAY, so they were unified, because they had days of peace
I'd ask you to go read a book and study Japanese history, but the fact that you suggested it to me... well I'll just close the tab, the level of discourse in this thread is low. Have a nice life.

>>2972903
There's religious unity in the fact that the Buddhism as practiced was mixed and syncretised with Shintoism, known as Shinbutsu-shūgō its non competing and complete each other
>highly complex and variable syncretism of 3 or 4 different cultures.
Interesting, care to explain?
>>2972932
The point of question is how diverse Japan was, in which it clearly cannot be compared to India
>they weren't at war EVERY SINGLE DAY, so they were unified, because they had days of peace
The days of unity consist the majority of Japanese history, there's only two major total civil war in Japanese history, which is the Sengoku era, and the end of the Heian period, its incomparable to Germany which thorough the majority of their history has been divided and warring with each other prior to Bismarck

>>2972969
There was NO religious unity, they had different sects that went to war with each other over their different understandings of faith. The monasteries were very militarized, and fought often, and were hired as mercenaries.

>its incomparable to Germany which thorough the majority of their history has been divided and warring with each other
It is literally Germany with little yellow people on an island. How similar their nations formed, reached for glory and failed, and are now restoring themselves, its uncanny.

>>2972267
India didn't exist before the 1800's.

>>2972276
>one language and one ethnic group
>India
Pick one

>>2973024
>India didn't exist before the 1800's.
Yeah, and Palestine never existed either.

What is the East India Company?

>>2973018
>It is literally Germany with little yellow people on an island. How similar their nations formed, reached for glory and failed, and are now restoring themselves, its uncanny.
Read my previous post, Japan was always unified except for two brief period, Germans was always divided prior to German unification, how are they the same?
>They're both axis, expansionist, and defeated
that's as far as the similarity goes, you're ignoring thousand years of historical difference

>>2973040
A foreign trading company

>>2972706
>>2972276
Japan is an ISLAND with a few smaller islands nearby and apart from ainu virtually everyone was teh same ethnicity with the same language.

comparing the development of a state on an island inhabited almost entirely by one ethnicity and lanugage group to that of a region of a mainland occupied by many languages and ethnicities is not valid.

>>2972304
the amount of difference in terms of ethnicity, language and culture between different regions of japan is tiny compared to the amount of difference in those areas between different states of india.

you think otherwise because you're a weeab and the only country you know about is japan and you think that slightly different festivals and dialects constitute huge differences.

>>2973068
For most of its history Japan was more diverse and divided than the Balkans, an area that houses a dozen countries that hate each other.

>>2973050
A policeman at a port doesn't mean the peninsula wasn't united. It just means it wasn't self governing.

>>2973074
>most of its history Japan was more diverse and divided than the Balkans
now you're being delusional
How about you list these ethnicities, religions, and 'dozens of countries that hate each other'?

>>2973040
Probably the most surreal thing that ever happened.

>>2973074
Those are clans. They weren't even as diverse as Italian or German states, and yet you think Japan is ethnically diverse? It's one ethnicity dominating just one another (Ainu) for most of its history. Even with the addition of Korean ex-slaves, Western expats, and Chinese/SEA immigrants, they're still very homogenous.

>>2972349
>Thailand
>essentially french puppet state
That's a rather stupid thing to say.

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>>2972581
Eurocommunist kind, aka "we'll pretend to do something different or even do anything at all while secretly we know all the bullshit we spouted won't work and we'll just innit for the power like Maduro and some seats in the parliament". Just read their website's manifesto/slogan/whatever commie lingo that is.

I mean, they want 'complete independence' from le evil capitalist USA but they also want pacifism. It's retarded. Even leftists like Oshii thinks pacifism is retarded. They might also be funded by none other than the CCP, so it kinds of make sense they just want China to do the jobs the US kind of doing right now to them, or at least that's what people will perceive when it turns out to be true.

Oh, and they're also completely anti-nuclear energy.

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>>2973303
Also, there's a commie novel (and a manga version of it) that got popular in recent years, it seems.

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Leftists are retarded but they make GOAT art.