Why is there such a hateful stigma against Turks now when talking

Yes. For centuries they were literal boogiemen, at a time when the printing press and the renaissance/englightenment was causing writers and literature to proliferate. Surprise surprise, a lot of it was anti-Turk, and since lots of it has survived, it's colored our perception of their civilization.

Because they committed a large amount of genocide in recent history, and their government will jail anyone who admits that fact in their country.

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>>2961908
Because of racism

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>>2961908
Because they're the only people who give wh*tes the taste of their own medicine

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Ayy lmao

>>2961925
Image is bullshit. When two different people do the same thing, it's not really the same thing.

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>>2961908

>>2961908
Turks have powered the earth solely on the butthurt they have generated over the years.

>>2961908
It's just Balkan and Armenian butthurt

butthurt gr**ks/s*rbs/arm*nians

>>2961934
Yuros killed more people than the Turks.

Turks are some of the absolute worst posters on the internet, they suffer extreme unwarranted self importance. See this thread:
>>2961925
>>2961971
>>2961975
>>2961996
>>2962059
They destroyed without building, they have literally no heritage of their own and have to rely on stealing Greek, Byzantine, Roman and Arab ruins to pretend they're important. They are wewuz the ethnic group, bu in real life their country is in decline.

Turks lagged behind in technology because they invented very little. They banned education in much of their empire, some countries didn't even have roads.

Same reason everyone hates Albania, they don't fit in anywhere:
>Muslim, but not Arabs
>annoyingly nationalistic, despite flooding into other countries for gibs
>unwarranted self importance and WEWUZery, despite having no real impressive history
>got btfo by Russia, Austria, Italy and a bunch of Balkanshit sheep farmers with pitchforks, but still act smug about the Ottofail Empire

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>>2961908
Turk are real life villains.

>a wild and violent Eastern people
>following a heretical religion of the anti-Christ
>invading the very roots of European civilization
>engaging in numerous atrocities, massacres, rapes, tortures and sacrileges
>kidnapped children of Christians to raise them as soldiers in a war against Christendom
>slowing down the development of Southeastern Europe which remained an agricultural shithole up to WWI while the rest of Europe was undergoing industrialisation, pic somewhat related, literacy rates reflect the Austrian-Ottoman border, Ottoman Balkan was basically a medieval village
>threatened all of Europe, it's forgotten and downplayed by many modern Westerners, but their ancestors were in genuine fear that Europe might fall to the Turks, especially if Vienna fell

Note that Europe often had problems with savage Eastern invasions like with Persians, Huns, Avars and Mongols, but the Turks are the only ones that are STILL right there. Magyars are also still here, but they're Europeanised in everything except language.

>>2962100

True story, ever run into an Albanian? I say hello and offer my hand, and he comes real close, looks me in the eye, and says "I'm Albanian."
I tell him I'm not a doctor, but he is persistent. "I'm Albanian." He says.
I think fuck it and say "You're Albanian!"
At this he lights up. "Yes! Are you Albanian?"
I say no.
"Then fuck you."

>>2962073
>measuring worth of a whole race only by their inventions and architecture

I bet you hate mongols too

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>>2962113
Back to pol faggot

>>2962113
Turks are European.

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Because Eurocucks are buthurt that they couldn't cut up Turkey like they did to the Arabs and based Ataturk beat them at their own game

>>2961971
Is this image implying that modern day Turks hate their ancestors for their actions. The first two images show white people being proud at the acts of ancient white people and the third one shows an Asian proud at ancient Asian people. Only the swarthy man is angry at ancient swarthy people.

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>>2961908 (cont)
On a side not, can any Turks here name off all the dynasties pictured in OPs picture?

I'm especially curios about the bottom row guy with black flag and guy with blue double headed eagle(thata not seljuks,is it?) and the guy after him with the yellow and red triangles

>>2962216
really weak attempt at invalidating that picture lad.

>>2962216
They're all white people
Asians don't even like Mongols

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also, though it probably doesn't count for much but i'm Paki and I love Turks. They have always been the shining light of Islamic history from the Sultanates to the Mughals

>>2961971
great pic

>>2962229
It's just an observation. It shows different people admiring what appears to be their respective ancestors for their actions but then it shows a Turkish looking who hates Turks.

>>2962231
The last one is clearly not a white person. His skin is almost brown.

>>2961908
WE

WUZ

KHANZ

*fucks greek boyfriend"

also turks are THE most butthurt people online.

>>2962203
butthurt turk detected

>>2962216
It's the same person brainlet

>>2962236
He's mad like in redface animu mad

>>2962236
His skin is not brown, he's raging so his skin looks different. If you were white you'd realise people change colour when super mad.

if you disagree with me you are butthurt and probably turk.

>>2962241
>>2962242
>>2962243
Whoever made this pic clearly meant for each of the overweight men to represent different people's. The one of the darker skin tone has to a self-hating Turk.

>>2962245
praise jesus

>>2962249
are you really this retarded?

>>2962223
I think it's from top to bottom left to right.

>Gokturks
>Huns
>European Huns
>Uyghurs
>Khazars
>Hephthalites
>Mamlukes
>Timurids
>Avars
>Ghaznavids
>Golden Horde
>Anushtegins
>Seljuks
>Mughals
>Ottomans
>Karakhanids
>Turkey

>>2962251
I think you're just misinterpreting the image.

>>2962251
He's fucking baiting at this point, don't answer him
>>2962259
The colour of the Turk soldier was different you faggot

>>2962252
thanks m8.
mughal flag should be green with a lion and sun tho

>>2962276
That's how I remember it as well but google says mughals.

>>2962234
>but i'm Paki
Non-whites should unironically be banned from posting on 4chan.

>>2962366
>an anime board is somehow exclusive to larping stormfags yeah neither should retards yet here you are

>>2962276
>>2962279
Did the Mughals use the lion flag because they were larping as PROUD ARYAN WARRIORS? Because I'm pretty sure that's based on the flag of Iran.

>>2962449
The Mughals were literally Persian by then, anyway.

>>2961908

Eunucks are nasty

Abducting children for brainwashing is nasty

Islam in general is nasty

That's why

>>2962073
Where does all this salt come from?

>>2962624
Just facts m8. I can't think of a country that was once so mighty but did so little with it.

>>2962624
Jealous S*rbs

>>2962638
Well I don't know if you are memeing or for real but the thing is you can't create yourself an identity by tarnishing others desu.So use your time on something more productive perhaps.

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>>2961908
Because they are historically associated with a conquering and imperialistic force. People like to pretend that the Turks were unique in that regard.

Also because Europe is a very racist place.

>>2962684
The more I look at that map the more I fucking hate it

>>2961908
Their history and progression was just like any other country? JUST LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY?

No you listen up, Turkics not only produced nothing of value. THEY STILL DON'T PRODUCE ANYTHING OF VALUE ALL THEY DID WAS GOING AROUND PILLAGING AND MASSACRING.
You have no idea how far people went just to get away from these roaches. Chinese build the LARGEST STRUCTURE IN HISTORY JUST TO KEEP THOSE FUCKERS OUT while Europe on the other hand DISCOVERED A NEW FUCKING WORLD JUST TO NO DEAL WITH THEM.
But guess what, Turks didn't get the message, so they keep raiding China, of course Chinks got fed up with their bullshit and eventually genocide their asses so they flee like babies to the west.
Time forward to the Tang Dynasty the Emperors enlist Turkic generals and subjugate clans by the fact the Emperor is Son of Heaven/Tengri.
Some willingly become subject, but of course most roaches are butt hurt that their superior turkmen get glory while they fuck sheep. What do they do to revolt? THEY BETRAY THEIR RELIGION, CONVERT TO ISLAM AND BECOME SUBJECTS FOR DEGENERATE ARABS INSTEAD THAT IS WHY YOU CAN'T TRUST TURKS.
Thankfully other sinophile Nomads fucked their shit up, plus the Mongols later on.

In modern times we got uyghurs filth bitching about MUH SOIL AND EAST TURKESTAN, BUT WHAT THEY DON'T REALIZE ONLY REASON THEY LIVE THERE IS BECAUSE OF THE QING GENOCIDE OF THE DUGHZAR
So what do Turkic fucks do to hide this? THEY WE WUZ THEY ARE THE WORSE WEWUZZERS IN HISTORY
>Uyghurs, worried at the prospect that they are descendants of migrants into Xinjiang and could be seen as invaders and not the indigenous inhabitants, have sought to revise history like Turghun Almas in his book Uyghurlar, claiming that Turkic Uyghurs were always natives of Xinjiang, claiming that the Tarim mummies were Uyghurs, claiming Uyghurs invented gunpowder, paper, compass, printing, and that Uyghur civilization is 6,000 years old and is the origin of all world civilization.[77][78]

>>2962690
continued
The Uyghur sitation also show you the hypocrisy of the Turkroaches. Uyghurs are freedom fighters and are being oppressed by the evil Chinese, BUT KURDS AND ARMENIANS ARE TERRORISTS.
Speaking as a Chinese, I can tell you from experience, I can get along well with Mongols and Japanese, TWO POWERS THAT PREVIOUSLY MASSACRED OUR SHIT, but Turks????? NEVER IN MY FUCKING LIFE FOUND A LIKABLE TURKS, DESPITE THEY ONLY HAVE BEEN A NUISANCE TO CHINA COMPARED TO MONGOLS AND OTHER NOMADIC EMPIRES

UIGHUR GENOCIDE WHEN I FUCKING HATE TURKS, I CAN TOLERATE NIGGERS BUT FUCK I HAVE NEVER SEEN A LIKABLE TURK THESE FUCKS CAN GO DIE ALL THEY DO IS BRING TROUBLE

所有我想要的就是要杀突厥

>>2961908
We throw shit at the anglos, the germans, the spaniards and the turks and anyone. Chill Mehmet.

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>>2962690
>>2962697
jesus this much butthurt is amazing

>>2962697
>Speaking as a Chinese, I can tell you from experience, I can get along well with Mongols and Japanese, TWO POWERS THAT PREVIOUSLY MASSACRED OUR SHIT, but Turks?
Sounds like you're just following a trend desu

Success breeds jealousy

>>2961908
We can't know for sure about the exact number but Turks led to a massive stagnation and even fall of population between Austria and Bulgaria during the time of the Turkish invasions. During their raids, they left behind empty wastelands (Banat, for example, became so ethnically mixed because it was depopulated after the Turks did their thing and then settlers had to be brought in from all over the Austrian empire), massive waves of refugees (their invasions triggered the Serbian migrations), crops were destroyed, whole villages burned down, people slaughtered and enslaved (among the Slovenes alone, around 200 thousand slaves were taken - surely, over a longer period, but it should still be noted that that 200 thousand was the approximate population of Finland and about a hundred thousand less than the population of Norway during the time of Turkish raids). Turks subjugated the Balkans for centuries and that led to the conversions among the people on the peninsula. And of course, who could forget that at one point, Turks besieged Vienna?

For centuries, Turks posed an existential threat to people of Central and South-Eastern Europe and the apocalyptic fear left a huge mark on the people living in the lands that were affected by them.

>>2962697
>>2962690
calm down dogeater. t*rks are barely turkic anyways

>>2961908
Cyprus.

So are people butthurt about all the Turkic peoples, or Just the Ottoman/post-ottoman ones?

>>2962765
just ottomans/turks. rest seem too irrelevant

>>2961908
Simplest answer : Turks did europe what europeans did to anyone else

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>>2962449
>flag of Iran
It was a common motif in that time, and was probably used by Turkic conquerors that ruled Iran well before Persiafag nationalists called it their own

>>2961925
>europe massacres people, but increases the rate of modernisation of those countries
>turkroaches let the balkans not even learn of the Rennaisance, let alone the Enlightenment ideals

>>2963176
Turks pretty much funded the Renaissance

>>2962113
>Serbs
>the very roots of European civilization

>>2961908
Annoyingly nationalistic about a country that is Eastern european tier

>>2963224
People of the Balkans feel like they're the hottest shit ever despite not even existing for hundreds of years

>>2963229
Do tell where they materialised from and when this happened.

>>2963236
I mean that the countries didn't exist for hundreds of years.

>>2961908
>WE WUZ KHANZ

Nationalistic muslim immigrants

Turk I know is unironically chronically nice, but he still denies the genocide.

>>2963269
just because he believes that what happened doesn't amount to a genocide doesn't make him a bad person.

>>2962697
Wait hol up. Aren't uyghurs in tarim basin for a thousand year by now? Didn't they get conquered by the chinese few hundred year ago?

>>2963277
I didn't say he was, but I can say that he's a fact resistant dude who believes insane things due to, in essence, being turkish.

>>2963294
Uighur didn't become a majority before the Qing genocide. Before it was inhabited by Indo-Europeans, but when the Tang withdrew thanks to An Lushan rebellion. Turks slowly moved in, then replaced by mongols, then said mongols got genocide by Qing

>>2961917
Why are people ignoring this?

The Turks have committed three genocides since the turn of the 1900, the Greek, Assyrian and Armenian genocide.
They are also currently trying to eradicate the Kurds.

>>2961908
>turkey
>actually turk
look at haplogroup lul

Reading this thread made me realize that almost no one here knows what they are talking about. In fact 90% of the people here learn history from memes and paradox games. I can no longer tolerate this board with its pretentious attitude and false sense of superiority. At one time I used to actually think that this board was a place of proper historical discussion, but its been ruined by all these edgy highschool kids. I highly doubt that half the people here actually reads books that aren't assigned to them by their grade 12 English teacher. This website has always been cancer, but this was one of the better boards. But you faggots ruined everything. This is my goodbye, this will be last time I will ever come to this website. I will instead go outside and live my life. Thank you and best of luck on your journey that is your pitiful life.

>>2962639
Literally no one is jealous of you Turks, the fact you think they are is laughable.

>>2963277
So being a holocaust denier and not believe what happened to 6 million Jews in Europe is completely despicable, but denying that 1.5 million Armenians were systematically murdered by turks is okay?
Oh right of course it's just their culture of genociding people and then denying it, I guess it's alright then.
Why be an apologist for genocide? You would never do be an apologist for the Nazis then why would you for the turks?

>>2963178
I think you mean sent emissaries out from Istanbul to the mud huts of Europe to teach the kings and queens of Europe how to count to ten

>>2962234
turks are by western countries because they're muslim and they've been fightikg against them for centuries. What would have happened if they had became (Orthodox) christian? Would they have recieved the same backlash from the West?

>>2963484
If the Turks had turned orthodox, which would have been cool, Byzantium would still exist, as the foreign takeover would be treated more like a Chinese fall of a dynasty, and less of a completely new nation.

I find it really hard to imagine what the Ottomans would have became if the sultanate of Osman was greek-speaking and Byzantified though.

>>2963224
>what is Greece

>>2962203
t.roach
>>2962205
Turks are as European as Mongols are you retard.

>>2961908
WE

>>2961971
>>2961925
Even your memes are shit.

>>2962639
>jealous
Belgrade is a unique city, despite constant warfare, it's remained very beautiful. Meanwhile, in Istanbul, the only thing left of note was built by Greeks 1500 years ago. I could understand Serb butthurt (although seeing that they ended up kicking your arses in the Balkan Wars, I'm not sure why). But jealous? No.

>>2962713
>success
Name a Turkish equivelent to Shakespeare, Thomas Edison, Martin Luther, Tesla. It's honestly kind of impressive how little you managed to achieve despite being one of the major powers (for a few years, at least) in Europe.

>>2963484
No where near. Hunagarians are steppe invaders too, but no one cares about them because they became Christians. An Orthodox Ottoman Empire would actually be kind of cool.

>>2963676
Hungarians essentially bred into the native population and became Europeans. Turks are like Jews and gypsies in that they never lost their Asiatic roots.

turks are hated cause they are so ughhhhh
if you live in germany or austria, you could consider turks to be the mexicans of the US. BUT they are not appreciative to be in that country they think they own the country. friday night at a bus station group of turks standing there talking bullshit with there bullshit accent. and then the best thing happens they tell us to get out of their country. the fuck just happened. doesnt speak proper german, dresse up like a fucking cuck sucker with there white shit printed tops and pants and stupid as "gold" necklaces and watches. every stupid ass turk drives a BMW and thinks he is fucking king. hey look at me i drive a BMW I am so rich, no you arent that car has 150miles on it and is a piece of shit.fuck turks

>>2963669
>Englishman
>American
>G*rman
>Serb

you can't do the same for any of those nationalities

It makes me really sad that Constantinople got wrecked so badly during the 4th crusade, they took everything.
And the Turks have done a good job of erasing Byzantine history from the city.
It's saddening that a state which existed for so long has been washed away like that.

>>2962249
holy shit my dude this is some advanced retardation

Pathetic

>>2963717
Except you can.

I'm not going to, because you just kind of dared someone to waste a few minutes out of their lives on proving you wrong, but there most definitely are important writers, philosophers, businessmen, and inventors from all those countries.

Compare to Turkey, which has about one statesman and a bunch of generals of note.

>>2963740
>Except you can.
>I'm not going to

hahahahahahaahaha

>>2961934
>>2962065
I am ok with my friends beating up others.
I am not ok with others beating up my friends.

>>2962113
>savage Eastern invasions like with the Persians
If you are referring to the Greco-Persian Wars, I'll remind you that the Persian invasion of Europe was a direct response to Athens sponsoring the equivalent to terrorists in Anatolia and Ionia which is entirely justified as a military response to the mainland Greeks antics.

>>2962252
>Helpthalites
They weren't Turkic.

Albanian here,
>>2962100
and
>>2962115
are both true, but I still love my country and fuck you for being foreign

>>2963776
Alireza losangeleszahdeh strikes again
>persians dindu nuffin, all achaemenid expansion is self defense

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>>2963787
>Alireza
Not a Persian, Turkshit. Also

>t. Memet al-Cuckstayamararyar

>Turkish apologists
Gross

>>2961908
Maybe if you stop your pan-trukisim and Turanism "WE WUZ" bullshit and stop stealing other people's history and lands such as inciting insurgents in Xinjian, you'll have far fewer enemies by then.

>>2963340
Literally every relevant people has done a genocide here and there.
Also assuming most poeple here are western european or american you guys really can't talk when your ancestors did worse shit.

>>2961924
haha this cracked me up

>>2963885
Kek nigga please stop pointing fingers.

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>>2962205

>>2963965
>Literally every relevant people has done a genocide here and there.
How many have done three in the last century, other than the Turks?
>really can't talk when your ancestors did worse shit.
I think you're severely underestimating the scale of Turkish invasions. We're talking about a people that conquered India, Persia, the Middle East, Asia Minor, South Eastern Europe and North Africa then ruled over these areas for centuries at a time.

>>2963983
>nigga
That's the only people I think can outmatch Turkroachs in "WE WUZ" competition right now

>>2963983
Last time I checked pan-turknism is first and only pushed by turkroachs. Even Ataturk didn't agree on this shit, modern turks betray their own founding father.

>>2962684
>one slaveraid on iceland
>"ayo we wuz khanz of iceland n sheit"

>>2963669
>Shakespeare
Fuzuli, Yunus Emre are some historical examples
turkish history is filled to the brim with great poets and writers so don't even go there

>Thomas Edison, Tesla
Akşemseddin, Kuşçu are some of the more historical examples
Arf, Yaşargil, Şengör are some modern examples

natural sciences are a weakness of us turks. we do okay in engineering, medical sciences and to some extent astronomy though

>Martin Luther
Mevlana i guess? There is a very very large list of, especially islamic, philosophers and some have formed their own sects but not as violently as it had happened in europe

>which has about one statesman and a bunch of generals of note.
turkish states administration&diplomacy is quite revered desu, both in europe and elsewhere

we also have some of the best leaders of the last few centuries
kılıçarslan ,mehmet the conqueror, süleyman the magnificent, mustafa kemal atatürk to name a few
and on top of that we have a lot of great generals&admirals whom have defined recent military history with their actions

just because you are ignorant does not mean that you can be ignorant publicly famalam
you can hate erdoğan, turks and the modern turkish state as much as you want but that does not mean that you can distort reality

>>2963885
Pan turanism is so over the top funny, I mean imagine anyone claiming that Finns and T*rks are the same people while keeping a straight face.

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>>2962684
>70% of the empire is fucking unhabitable desert
Nice way to fucking inflate numbers, Turkroach

>>2962684
>all those swathes of literal fucking nothing in Arabia and Africa
The only people you ever managed to beat were the Byzantines on their death bed and a bunch of irrelevant principalities in buttfuck Balkans with 10 people in them.

>>2964355
turkish turanism includes turkic-speaking peoples, not finns or japanese or other shit

ural-altaic theory is a fenno-sw*de creation, no serious turkist would ever defend or preach it

>>2963371
holocaust has incredibly stacking evidence for it
armenian genocide does not

also;
armenians deny access to their archives
armenians deny any research about the issue
armenians produce an incredible amount of forgeries and political moves on the subject

there is absolutely no reason for anyone to believe that the turks ever planned or carried out a genocide of the armenian peoples
the reality is that they started a rebellion attempting to ethnically cleanse the land from baku to cilia, which was called megalomania by even some of the most radical european observers, and they failed
as a result they were left with a small state under soviet yoke

any western historian that enters the archives on the subject leaves as a "genocide denier" because the event is not a genocide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG70UWESfu4

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>>2961908
>Why is there such a hateful stigma against Turks now when talking historically?
*ctrl-f "Balkangreuel"*
*zero results*

>>2963484
You seem to be forgetting that , which Turks spent a lot of time ruling over Persia before invading the byzantines. So I can't imagine a practical scenario in which they are Christian. Not to mention, Abrahamic religions tend not to switch to other religions without coercion.

But if by some wierd anomoly Turkey became Christian, I think they'd be seen similarly to Armenia or Georgia, just a lot more relevant,

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Fin

Imagine someone that is arrogant as an Anglo, but has nothing to show for it. The Turks.

>>2964371
>>2964362
Delicious EuroButthurt

>>2961908
This is why I hate Turkey:

- deny genocide
- ignorant population
- insanely patriarchal culture where women are treated like trash and objects
- smell bad (not even a joke and ive met several turks)
- nationalistic for no reason
- an islamic state in all but name
- they had one chance in recent times to fix their shit country and the majority refused to back the few turks which wanted change (the military coup)
- dictatorial leadership

>>2964499
>women are treated like trash and objects
I hate Turks as much as the next guy but how is this a bad thing?

>>2964501
Only a savage treats his objects like trash.

>>2964457
>>2964450
>>2964446
Why was Gottfried so obsessed with Turkish gang rapes? Was he the proto-cuck?

>>2964513
Cuck porn always sells.
You capture the cuck market, the "just looking for a good fap" market, AND the butthurt market.

>>2964501
epic post dude ;) you are truly one of us XDDD based /b/ro!! XD

>>2964421
>So I can't imagine a practical scenario in which they are Christian
well it is very unhealthy to do history with what if but i will try

because this actually almost happened, here is how;
mehmet the conquerors position in the empire was quite weak before taking constantinople because he had already left the throne once before. the notables were quite shaky on following him
the byzantines had mehmet's uncle with them as well as 600+ ottoman troops. the uncle had escaped to the byzantine empire after a falling with mehmet's father and had converted to christianity along with his men
byzantines thought of attempting an ottoman rebellion using the uncle as the head-piece but decided otherwise after some consideration. but had mehmet lost the siege they probably would have done so successfully and replace the sultan with the now-christian uncle
this probably would have evolved into an ottoman-byzantine intermarrum and christianization of the ottoman empire

also the pope had considered sending a letter to mehmet calling him to christianity in return for giving support in "world domination" but the letter was never sent

>>2964499
>(the military coup)
gülen is far worse than mehmet don't buy the lies
>women are treated like trash and objects
this is somewhat true for the east of the country but not anywhere else desu

>>2964523
Imbecile.

>>2964534
>worse than mehme
i meant erdoğan shit

Modern Turks are just Islamized Greeks, Albanians and general Slavs.

>>2964417
>>2964420
>>2964424
>>2964427
>>2964429
>>2964434
>>2964437
>>2964440
>>2964444
>>2964446
>>2964450
>>2964457
ah yes russian propaganda paintings can always be considered as valid historical sources

>>2964348
when people actually respond with an argument it gets ignored
heh

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>>2964499
fucking turks and fucking mehmet! stop stealing my lunch money you brown sand nigger!!

>>2964542
Okay then go make hate threads about Greeks, Albanians and general Slavs

>>2964348
Literally whoms

>turkish states administration&diplomacy is quite revered desu, both in europe and elsewhere

>we also have some of the best leaders of the last few centuries
>kılıçarslan ,mehmet the conqueror, süleyman the magnificent, mustafa kemal atatürk to name a few
>and on top of that we have a lot of great generals&admirals whom have defined recent military history with their actions

Kind of agree, kind of do not. Mehmet 2, Alp Arslan, Selim the <bad adjective> were all good military leaders, yes, but that is at the same time the vast majority of Ottoman feats. I will concede that, at conception, the Ottoman system of governance was great for its time. That achievement is diminished since they weren't able to improve it enough to actually last.
>>2964417
>fucking on horseback

>>2964547
>historical propaganda is not a valid source explaining stigma against an ethnic group

It doesn't matter whether or not the Turks were gang-rapists, Europeans thought they were and that's what counts.

The made-up Balkans shitholes only exist because of their delusional "les tyrant turks obress us :(((" thing which isn't even fully right lmao
Most of "Turks" that bullied the slavshits were the bashibozuks who mere mostly Albanians or Bosniaks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashi-bazouk

>>2964569
>Literally whoms
Just because you don't know them or didn't learn about them doesn't mean they were no ones.

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>>2964580
t. Mehmet

>Ottoman state funds irregular soldiers to rampage through enemy areas and plunder and rape
>This phenomenon is totally unconnected to the Ottomans though! The Ottomans had nothing to do with them!

>>2964574
europeans are fucking snakes.

>>2964569
>since they weren't able to improve it enough to actually last.
well if the tanzimat reforms were quite successful and would have fixed a lot of the problems(education, corrupt administration, nationalist friction etc) if they had the chance to get into full gear across the empire
the system probably would have resulted in a rather liberal britain style conglomerate of nations with a central parliament, symbolic sultan and multiple religious authorities(orthodox patriarchs, caliph, shia religious authorities) to keep everything tight
unfortunately the endless decades of wars stopped that from taking place

>>turkish states administration&diplomacy is quite revered
this should be a "was"
the current state of the government is "worthless" at best
the current turkish nation is literally held together by the fact that the turks hate everybody else more than they hate each other

>>2964591
>They were particularly noted for their lack of discipline.
read the article.

>>2964614
>well if the tanzimat reforms
the tanzimat reforms*

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This confuses and enrages the subhuman.

>>2964591
>no t*rks for a decade
>can't blame russa and/or communism
>it becuz of t*rks

If that was the case Greece would fare far worse, it is still a shithole but nevertheless better than ex commie balkan shitholes.

the elephant in the room is Soviet union and yugoslavian civil war imho. If you are a bulgarian who worshpis russia, it is far easy to attribute your shittyness to people who have not ruled you for a century than those who were in your clay 2-3 decades ago.

>>2964593
Rude!

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>>2964615
They don't stop being your soldiers just because you're unable to control them.

>>2964614
>this should be a "was"
>the current state of the government is "worthless" at best
Anti-turkposter here, but I'm pretty sure that the sentence is one hundred percent correct since it refers to Ottoman (not Erdogan) statesmanship, and that Ottoman governance is still revered. It functioned rather well during the first two hundred years.

>>2962871
There werent even lions living in ancient turkic lands unlike in iran

>>2964623
It's hard to suddenly become a 1st world nation out of nowhere when no one can read and the population is agrarian and said population lives in glorified mud huts because of Ottoman control.

The Balkans prior to turkish domination was comparable to a western european kingdom at the same time. Even in the early 20th century they were still backwards after being locked out of the enlightenment, the renaissance, scientific methods, sovereignity, a well formulated state with roots and history, etc etc etc.

It's rather similar to looking at Zaire right now and questioning why it's so bad since the whites havnt been there in like a whole while!

>greece would fare far worse
lol
>But it's better than ex commie balkan
LOL

>>2964622
You know Turks aren't upset about the battle at all, right?

>>2961908
Because they are all a bunch of wewuzzers (like your pic shows) and they refuse to admit the genocides they commited against christians

>>2964633
There are no lions in england as well but alas they are the symbol of the english since medieval ages.

>>2964499

>they had one chance in recent times to fix their shit country and the majority refused to back the few turks which wanted change (the military coup)

Stopping the Gulenist coup is about the only thing the Turks have done right in recent years.

>>2964640
What I'm saying is you should take into account 20st century more, communism fucked you way more than Ottomans, again the example is Greece even though you deny it, I would say it is still better than ex communist nations, especially ex soviet satellites (yugoslavia might be debated)

Anyways my point is you might not overplay the role of Ottomans but you are deffinetly downplaying the role of USSR in your shittyness due to your russophilia and orthodoxphilia Do not act as if turks occupied you up until 1990.

>>2964112
Most of that territory was never permanently conquered by the turks

>>2964348
>Fuzuli
>Yunus Emre
>comparable to Shakespeare
You are a retard.

>>2962684
>Also because Europe is a very racist place.
Not compared to the rest of the world

>>2964410
Do you know if there is porn of pic related? I feel my bulge tingling if you catch my drift

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>>2964697
>Anyways my point is you might not overplay the role of Ottomans but you are deffinetly downplaying the role of USSR in your shittyness due to your russophilia and orthodoxphilia Do not act as if turks occupied you up until 1990.

My country has been independent since 1523. I'm not a Russophile. I'm not an Orthophile. I'm not donwplaying the role of the USSR either, in fact I have never even mentioned the soviets. You're trying to find something even worse than the Ottomans to compare said ottomans to. Protip: It's not an argument.

Czechia was in the Warsaw pact, now it's alright, pretty good, way better than Yugoslavia, and much better than Greece. The two former have being socialist in common, the two latter have being under ottoman control in common. Hell, compare Serbia to Slovenia. Both were socialist, only one was ottoman for a long time.

>>2964705
Not him but you're right, they're better than Shakespeare.

>>2964745
Sure thing, cockroach.

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>>2964697
The Communist party tried bringing the development of the worse-off republics higher at the expense of Slovenia and Croatia. The difference was massive, both economically but more much more fundamentally as well. Just look at >>2962113
to see the difference between the ex-Habsburg and ex-Ottoman lands. Socialism led to stagnation compared to the West, not fallback. The reason the difference would only be bigger was the Ottoman history - 500 years of it, compared to 50 years of socialism.

>>2964755
That's all you have to say?

>>2964733
>>2964759

>even worse than the Ottomans to compare said ottomans to.
I'm not, I don't say USSR was forse than ottomans, it think it civilized a lot of bearded peasants tbqh. but I do think 20st century is far more important, and that made or break the nations far more than previous centuries

Ottocucks are a good spacegoat that shifts the blame, Why we suck? Is it because of our corrupt nature? sleazy attitude? or is it because of subhuman t*rks (not a roach btw) whom we kicked out a century ago?

Maybe not czechistan but if you are a nation who got their indepence in 19th century from ottomans, the reason why you are shitty is due to 1-you 2-communism/russia 3-turks
but for them they put 1-turks2-themselves-3-russia

Ottomans were far worse influence than ussr, there is no doubt about that, and I don't dispute that

>>2964755
lol what a pathetic response

>>2964733
>>2964759
>>2964764
to add, plenty of shitholes in 19st century became very good due to their decisions in 20st century. I don't know why you downplay Greece but fare much better for most of the 20st century, finland who was under russian occupation and was a shithole became quite advanced due to their decisions in 20st century

that goes for 21st century too, it will make or break nations. Central, north yugo countries might become developed due to their actions I think this and last century has a far bigger effect than any other centuries before

anyways sadly my last post g2 to work,

>>2964731
There's just something about gang-rape that gets the old organ grinding.
>GRRR HOW DARE THEY RAPE OUR VIRTUOUS WOMEN (stuck up bitches...)
>THIS IS AN OUTRAGE (mind if I watch?)
>WE WILL AVENGE THE STOLEN VIRTUE OF OUR INNOCENT MAIDENS (no one is looking mind if I join in?)

>>2964050
How many people did turks kill in those centuries though?
The spaniards destroyed whole civilizations in southern america, the brits and french almost drove the american natives to extinction.
Further the brits caused the death of millions through famine in india and ireland, the dutch killed shitload of indonesians after WW2, the germans killed shitload of jews ofcourse and the eastern euros deported and killed ethnic germans after WW2.
Ofcourse the greeks and balkaniggers killed atleast a million muslims through ethnic cleansing and famine during and after the balkan wars.

So yeah europeans can't have the moral high ground on this.

>>2964640
Turkey proper was under Ottoman rule too though. In fact, Anatolia was a ghetto shitshow compared to the Balkans, which was the powerhouse of the empire.

I'm not saying the Ottomans had nothing to do with the current condition of the Balkans, they had. But portraying as the biggest or the only reason serves no purpose other than retarded baseless nationalistic bullshit. There are other more important reasons and those are regularly ignored which is why Balkans have a really hard time developing even to the levels of modern Turkey, which is muslim majority country with a lot of ignorant ISIS-like inbred people.

>>2961908
Because they're muslims.
And they picked it, too.

>>2964839
Anon if germany after being totally leveled during the secod world war can become one of the most developed countries in the world no country can have an excuse for being shitty.

>>2964858
Depends how much support you have to actually grow so well.

>>2964858
Balkans are still blaming the turks
Still the same boogeyman after centuries

>>2964847
So? Do you really think that Islam is bad just because it is infected by terrorism that you created?

>>2964830
You know what's the difference though? Europeans may have killed but at the same they built something from the places the conquered and left an entire legacy which for the good or bad changed the world into what it is today. The Turks on the hand did absolutely nothing of worth other than waging war. Instead, they kept oppressing Christians and kept them down for many centuries until their independence, which is why they still hated Turks.
>inb4 but let them practice their religion
Yeah because you needed somewhere to get your war funds. Because of the taxation, the majority of the Christians within the empire stayed poor and their populations were being stagnant, not to mention the blood tax.

>>2964874
Don't be a retard anon the ottomans built roads,bridges and bathouses everywhere they went most of it got destroyed by balkan revolutionaries in order to get rid of 'turkish influences'.

>>2964654

>Entire army destroyed
>Sultan Killed
>Delayed conquest of Serbia by about 60 years

>>2964760
>>2964775
Memet pls.

>>2964874
That post is utter bullshit. Hate them however you like but pleaso for the love of God, do it truthfully, not with blatant lies and scapegoating.

Ottomans were considerably fair in their rule against other religions in most of their time.

Muslims paid taxes too. Dhimmi taxes could in fact be considered lower than what they would be paying under former states.

>>2964903
You're talking like Belgrade was not Ottoman soil in the end. If it makes you feel better go on, we'll act like triggered when you mention that battle

>>2964830
>Liists "crimes" of Euros
>Turks dindu nuffin see?
LOL

>>2964874
>>2964889
Turks did the mistake of not entirely genociding / converting

Look at Romania, Trajan and his army came, literally leveled the place for gold, but now he is worshipped due to roman migration + asimilated locals.

Look at persia, once a center of sunni islam, was forcefully converted to twelver shiaism by Safavids, shah butchered those who refused. Yet now he is loved and considered to be a national figure.

If turks banned christianity, forcefully converted everyone to islam and destroyed their culture completely, the balkans would approach them with apathy at best and love at worst.

Instead turks dd the mistake of expoiliting them while also allowing them to maintain their culture/identity thus their relevant apathetic tolerance became the reason of why balkans hated them. You had an empire that take away your son and daughter and gold but did nothing to destroy your heritage your culture and your memory, bad fucking strategy

>>2964918
>Ottomans were considerably fair in their rule against other religions in most of their time.
Is that why they're universally hated in regions they formerly occupied?

>>2964874
>Ottomans build plenty of things including libraries
>everything gets destroyed to remove as much sign as Turkish influence as possible
>dey built nuffin, son. We wuz gr8 but the man keepin us down

>>2964925
lol tell that to a balkanite
all they will say is "well they tried but with the power of JESUS CHRIST on our side they couldn't do it"

>>2964903
And so? Everything was taken and literally no one is butthurt. No one. I realise it's a big pride for Serbs but Turks don't give a fuck, they just don't care.

>>2964923
Yeah they're not crimes, it's only bad when whites are the ones being killed

>>2964926
They had to spawn nationalism out of something, right?

>>2964903
You realize that Turks don't give a shit about you balkan people right?

>>2964928
Their ignorance is staggering. They only really serve to lie to themselves so they can sleep well at night.

The eternal roach must be stamped out of existence

>>2964926
No, because they tried to exist as an authoritarian and centralist body of government in an age when nationalism was on the rise. They tried to do so in a region right next to Europe ffs. Of course they would be hated.

I'm not saying they were angels. Their last century was especially shitty in every regard. But the especially poor condition of their subjects was not because the Ottomans in their essence the spawn of the devil(which seems to be the gist of what people from the Balkans think of them), but the empire was in its dying bed. Don't forget that the people shared that bed too.

>>2961908
Turks and Turkics are the only race who have had an unbroken run of sovereign states and empires from their inception.

First mention of "Turk" is from the Chinese records about the Battle of Baideng, where the commander Maodun Khan (Mete or Oghuz in Turkish culture) tells them that Turks are the generals of the Xiongnu.

That was 209 BC

All in all Turks are real life orcs from Warcraft

>>2964940
deep down they know
deep down they know how fucking humiliating it is
that's where pure hatred comes from

>>2964858
Well one important factor there is how big your population is and how rich your country is speaking natural resources wise.Correct me if I'm wrong but balkans are pretty poor compared germany in that aspect.

>>2964955
This is also interesting because Turkish people were one of the few "Orient" races that Tolkien respected.

He stole a bunch of words from Turkish.

Uruk means "Race" in Turkish. Modern word is "Irk" but it comes from Uruk.

>>2964958
Turks don't have any hate for Serbs, you're sorely mistaken.

I think your problem here is worrying just how insignificant of a feat what your ancestors pulled was to the Ottomans.

>>2961908
>that artwork
I love the 60s-70s feel to it, back when government was also promoting pre islamci turks,

Nowadays even Seljuks are ignored and there is a dumb revisionism about ottomans, sad.

>>2964968
no i was talking about balkans' hatred for turks

>>2964976
balkans hate each other more than Turks or Austrians. we are subhumans to be honest breh.

>>2964980
a balkan meeting goes like this
everyone insults each other with hatred
then someone shouts "fuck turks!" out of nowhere
suddenly they all shout "fuck turks!" in acceptance
then go back to insulting each other

>>2964962
I'm not german I just took them as an example also what natural resources does germany have?
As far as I know germany is the economic power it is now because of its industry and technological innovation.

An interestingly semi-good thread about Turks despite the constant Balkan shitposting. This has been a trend recently and I'm actually surprised /his/.

>>2964923
I never said that retard.

>>2964998
Coal being the biggest one. Which allowed them to get an industry up and running, I'm very certain even if the ottomans never occupied the balkans they could never reach the western european tier of industrialization as they just didn't have resources nor the population. I'm not butthurt I'm just saying that apart from all the reasons why balkan countries are still relatively poor to this day is because they are pretty poor when it comes to natural resources.

>>2964874
Yes Europeans built so much by cutting off people's hands for not meeting their rubber quotas in Congo, by causing famine after famine in Indian (or even Ireland as Ireland kept exporting food, while denying Ottoman aid shipments to Ireland!), by genociding the native americans, by enslaving the Australian and New Zealandian abbos etc etc etc

>>2964830
>the dutch killed shitload of indonesians after WW2
Not enough. They were rebels (some of them, anyway) so it was justified enough. Can't say the same about the Turks.

>>2965031
I guess you're right about the population the ottoman empire wasn't very densley populated.

>>2965052
What the actual fuck?

We should reestablish our rule in the Balkans
The wh*te race deserves to be wiped out

>>2965065
What? Some of the Indonesians were rebels. The Dutch were trying to maintain their colony. That somewhat justifies their actions. The Turks, on the other hand, just killed defenseless civilians. You can't compare the two.

>>2965130
Are you fucking retarded or what m8?

>>2965045
>cherrypicking
If it wasn't for the Europeans you wouldn't have the internet now

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>>2964927
>>Ottomans build plenty of things including libraries
Yeah mosques are libraries alright

Turks are demonized by Europeans for a variety of valid reasons. Although I will concede that alot of them are pretty exaggerated.

>Three(possibly four if you count Kurds) major genocides in the last century. All of which were focused on Christian populations.(Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians).
>The European territories under their control stagnated along with the rest of the Ottoman Empire and were subject to corrupt dictatorial Pashas(Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania, Bosnia)
>Christians in Rumelia were subject to discriminatory laws that often allowed them to be abused heavily by their rulers.
>Jannisary system
>The Ottoman Empire for centuries focused on expanding further into Europe and often used Islam as a pretense for their conquest.
>Seen by Europeans and destroying the Roman Empire with the conquest of Constantinople.
>Conversion of ancient churches into mosques
>Mass destruction and looting of Byzantine artifacts
>The Ottoman Empire was a militant society that didn't really improve the areas it occupied. Especially in the later years when the sultan's power waned and regional warlords abused the population.
>Exaggerations of forced conversions, rape of Christian women and wanton abuse of their European subjects were usually printed and circulated in Europe.

>>2965052
>>2965130
>They were rebels (some of them, anyway)
literally the same excuse the roaches use for armenians. Nevermind the fact some of the armenians did form militias, sided with russians and attacked turkish soldiers and civillians. That does not give you the excuse to genocide an entire people regardless of whether they rebelled or not. Same for indonesians, same for armenians.


I always hated when t*rks complained about european hypocrisy, but fucking hell they are right.

>>2964918
Fuck off you god damn nigger mongrel, these are the reasons why the Balkans is a gigantic shitfest now.
>b-b-but muh muslims had it rough too!
Yah that explains why they kept shitting more muslim babies while the Christians were decreasing in population. You fucking cunt.

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>>2965211
Well googling what he said I found some stuff

>>2965234
>Fuck off you god damn nigger mongrel, these are the reasons why the Balkans is a gigantic shitfest now.
>>b-b-but muh muslims had it rough too!
>Yah that explains why they kept shitting more muslim babies while the Christians were decreasing in population. You fucking cunt.

Wut? Only muslim province that was more populated than European provinces was the sanjak of bursa literally all other European provinces were more populous. Ottomans empire was majority christian until they conquered Egypt.

>>2963965
At least we acknowledge the wrongs of the past

>>2965337
>Balkans more populous than Anatolia
I find that hard to believe when Anatolia was where the Byzantium drew most of its manpower and was also still populous after the Turkification. At that point the only places in Anatolia that had Christian population were at the coasts (Greeks) or inner in eastern Anatolia (Armenians) who were already having contested grounds with the Kurds

>>2965337
Anatolia was the more populous region of the Ottoman Empire excluding maybe Egypt or some other pseudo vassal states. It's true that christians made up about 50% of the empire's population, but it's ridiculous to act like Anatolia wasn't their fucking powerbase.
Although I will concede the point that the Balkans were an extremely valuable region to the Ottomans and gave them alot of manpower and taxation monies

>>2965360
>find that hard to believe when Anatolia was where the Byzantium drew most of its manpower and was also still populous after the Turkification

M8 it was massively depopulated by the time turkish beyliks took over from all the wars and the looting turks did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Ottoman_Empire#1831_Ottoman_census

Look at this census for example it is really disorganized but it proves my point and before any dumbass talks about 1914 census, at 1914 ottomans had lost all their European holdings except thrace.

>>2965215
>Mass destruction and looting of Byzantine artifacts

Nigga that shit belonged to the Ottomans, were they going to give it to the Byzantines when the Byzantines were no longer?

What did they destroy of the Byzantines?

>>2965215
>Kurd genocide
lol no.

>>2965215
When did the ottomans use islam as a pretense for an invasion?
Only time I remember the sultan doing that was on WW1 whoch was mostly defensive.

>>2965206
If it wasn't for middle easterners you wouldn't have farming now.

>>2965383
Rumelia, i.e. balkan peninsula nearby constantinople was the powerbase of the Ottomans, not anatolia.

This is one reason why they were hit very hard post balkan independence. Ottomans looked into anatolia only during their last years, and out of necessity

This is one reason most architecture in anatolia is either byzantine or seljuk, besides few dynastic cities ottomans ignored anatolia, and if there are any buildings etc, they are done in the very last decades.

>>2965434
Most byzantine artifacts are in venice fr a reason. Especially Mehmed II wouldn't destroy that he was a romanboo.

>>2965215
May gods fuck me in the ass If this retard knows about 4th crusade

>>2965469
what did he destroy?

>>2965472
Nothing I know of.

>>2965457
Pretty much all their incursions into Eastern Europe. For example the siege of Vienna had strong religous overtones from both the Christians and the Muslims.

>>2965459
Middle easterners also waged wars on one another, and even destroyed each other when they could. What's your point?

>>2965491
My point is that its retarded to claim that without a certain people we wouldn't have a certain thing because literally nobody invented everything from agriculture till electronics on their own.

>>2961908

>that pic

WE
WUZ
TURKICS

>>2965486
I'll agree with the christian side seeing themselves as defenders of christendom but I never read about the ottomans callin their invasion of eastern europe a holy war.
It was basic secular imperialism based on wealth acquisition.

>>2965502
Turkic is a language and cultural group so yes we are you faggot.

>>2965498
The original point of discussion was comparing Europeans with Turks on how they both did terrible shit. The difference is that Europeans made up for it by making various contributions in humanity unlike the Turks. Which is why at least Europeans have a more balanced view unlike the Turks who are overly negative.

>>2965516
bullshit, turks are hated because they are considered to be foreign/alien. If they were orthodox everyone would love them (except the folk who got conquered ofc, then you would hear about the Chalcedonian Christainity being showed down their throat or something)

Turks by being muslim, having tribal roots etc were THE alien, THE outsider. That is the major reason of the hate. People would still hated them even if roaches cured cancer

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>>2965511

What does language have to do with genetics you fucking idiot?
You wuzn't turkics, you are more middle eastern than turkic, you are more european than turkic.

Your turkic admixture is minimal. you are arabized mediterraneans.

>>2965434
I don't know. Maybe the destruction of the majority of Roman churches in Asia minor, and the conversion of those left into mosques?
Who cares if it "belonged" to them?
The pagan temples in the Roman Empire belonged to Rome, but it was still upsetting that they destroyed them or converted them into churches.

>>2965352
>oh yeah we killed you lol ahaha its good banter ye? aight see ya bruv

>>2965470
I'm aware of the fourth crusade. It's not even when I was referencing.

>>2965516
Oh I'm sure the american natives are ok with having iphones instead of their own country.
Also why the fuck is it always 'we europeans against that one smaller group'.
Nigga when the romans were at their golden age half of europe were mudhut dwelling savages.
If you're trying to claim someone achievements atleast do that with people you are related to.

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>>2965527
>turks are hated because they are considered to be foreign/alien.
Russians are also alien compared to the rest of Europe but at the same time they've made significant contributions. Turks didn't, they've steppenigger roots and steppeniggers always ruin whatver they touch.

I don't. I actually quite like Turks.

I just think the turanic LARPing of people from the Western Coast of Asia Minor who are blatantly, by sight alone and by virtually every population genetics clustering study ever done, are essentially Islamized Anatolians, is fucking ridiculous and absurd.

You can't keep a straight face when some Greek-looking Medish guy starts oook'ing and eek'ing about how Genghis Khan's people were his ancestors. It's ridiculous.

Note that the more easy going Turks like Turkish Cypriots don't believe in any of this shit.

>>2965529
That's what I'm trying to explain retard being turk isn't about genetics.
Turks have mixed with other people since before te migration to at the time iranian central asia.
Besides show me one european population who are still 'pure'.
Almost nobody is genetically the same as ther ethnicity.

>>2965554
>Besides show me one european population who are still 'pure'.
Finns?

>>2965535
I guess you never went to anatolia?
There are shitload of churches and monastaries everywhere most of them even got state funding during ottoman times.

>>2965548
I was thinking about mentioning Russia alongside Mongolia. But since you broached it

Mongols were also a threat but for a very brief period, therefore they lacked the virility of hate compared to Turks.

Russia is loved not because of their contributions but because they are a-slavs b-christian. Russia is hated less than turks because their culture is less foreign compared to them, is it foreign? yes a little bit, hence they still have the outsider notion but not as deep and complete as turks.

If roaches were Christian no one except the balkan people who would probably suffer the same fate, would bitch and moan about it nor would anyone bitch and moan about how they contributed nothing.

>>2965556
Mixed with germanic swedes and probably russian slavs too.

>>2965567
and then there are samis as well

>>2965562
>There are shitload of churches and monastaries everywhere most of them even got state funding during ottoman times.

Depends on the Sultan. Some of the earlier ones were actually decent enough, especially to Mouth Athos. But this changed in the 17th century if I remember correctly and they started enforcing Shariah more strictly (basically enforcing that Christian sites fell into ruins).

>>2965567
Proofs?

>>2965543
Who are you to decide what native Americans think? They could've embraced it for all we know. What matters is that they lost against the Europeans for being technologically inferior. What they believe is up to them.

>Also why the fuck is it always 'we europeans against that one smaller group'.
You're the one who brought up the subjects of Europeans in the first place

>>2965486
What religious overtones from muslims are you talking about?

>>2965566
Russia has been the big bad outsider atleast since the rise of communism though.

>>2965567
Slavs don't exist in northern Russia, just Slav-speaking Finns.

>>2965507
Ever since the Ottomans annexed the mamluke Sultanate, and gained control of Egypt, The Levant and were granted control of Mecca and Medina by the last Abbasid caliph. Sunni Muslims at the time began to view the Ottoman Empire as being the rightful caliph, and pretty much any war they waged against the infidels in Europe became a holy war. Ottoman Sultans pretty much viewed themselves as the collective voice of Islam, and that power was drawn upon again by Abdul-Hamid II during the first world War. I can find sources from the Ottoman Ulema or sultan's proclamations if you'd like.

>>2965457
Not him but their response to the Western Powers after Gladstone organized a collective protest of their atrocities against the Bulgarians ("The Bulgarian Horrors & The Question of the East") was literally: "This is our religion bro, this is what it tells us to do".

Same with the Barbary Corsairs when the US prosecuted a war against them incidentally.

>>2965571
In the black sea region there is the sümela monastary on a mountain top which got state funding till ataturk abolished the caliphate, I bet they weren't the only one.

>>2965589
I'm saying it waxed and waned. Probably became common again after the Tanzimat Reforms.

>>2965574
Just thinking logically here.
Or you could tell me if you would trade a computer for the sovereignity and freedom of your people.

I don't hate them, I just think Turkified Kurd mongrels and Islamic Greeks pretending to be central asian ponyniggers is kind of funny. It's the same as North Africans ranting about how Arab they are.

>>2965566
>>2965548
To add,
Again it will be a what if scenario, but lets keep all the `contributions` but change the religions and the people
Would you prefe muslim russia (you can also change the ethnicity if you want, a non indo european folk) with the same contributions, over a christian ottoman empire?

Would you say I hate these christian fucks because contributed nothing?

Maybe yes, maybe you see beyond ethnicity and religion but most people don't they think in tribal lines, and I do believe this tribalism is the major reason why roaches are hated, again putting those who actually got harmed by them aside, they would not like them regardless of their religion, If ERE standed you would see Bulgarians hating on Basil, but due to turks they recieved a romantic interpretation.
>>2965576
I agree, but the real big bad outsider was the turks, albeit they lost power in the last centuries but Russia for all its outsideness was still -christian and indo european, turks were neither.

>>2965577
Does that make them less russian when they are the same as every other russian?

>>2965604
>If ERE standed you would see Bulgarians hating on Basil, but due to turks they recieved a romantic interpretation.

Of course. It's a concentric ring thing.

Put me with a Greek and I'll fight him.

Put me and a Greek and a Turk together and I'll join up with the Greek to smash the Turk.

Put me, a Greek, a Turk and a Chink in the same room and we'll all beat the Chink up.

Etc.

>>2965587
If you can fid prrof for me that the invasions of eastern europe during the 14th and 15th centuries were on religious ground I'll shut up.
It will have to be said by a sultan though because it says in the quran that conquering infidels is ok doesn't mean the ottomans did it for that reason, I mean they also conquered many muslims when warfare between muslims is forbidden.

>>2965595
Yeah ok I guess thats normal in a monarchy.

>>2965599
How would you fight for the freedom of your people if you don't have equally technological abilities as your enemies? Would you charge with horses against tanks? Use arrows against planes? I'm speaking for any civilisation not just native Americans and even now that they can use the technology they don't possess the numbers to do the difference. It's sad how it went this way, but it's just how it is.

>>2965649
I'm not saying that you should abandon all technological innovation.
You're talking like what the brits and french did was good for all of humanity when it was only good for themselves and then your still trying to hold the moral high ground.

>>2965613
>Put me, a Greek, a Turk and a Chink in the same room and we'll all beat the Chink up.
I would still beat up the roach

>>2962252
Where would you say they turned from Chinks to Kebabs?

>>2965689
Settling in central asia partially already.

>>2965667
Obviously they were looking after themselves and not humanity but even then their contributions were widespread and not just centered on one nation.

>>2965701
Yeah well the ottomans brought coffee and a primitive form of vaccination to europe if these two things aren't big I don't know what is.
Especially vaccination which is one of the cornerstones of modern medicine.

>>2965537
>so what if these barbarians have committed 3 genocides in recent memory and don't even acknowledge it remember that shit your ancestors did hundreds of years ago yeah how bout that
wicked whataboutism lad

>>2964112
4000 miles on sea to capture qt pink nordic pussy and loot VIKING shores

give us credit you betas

Turks are the alphas of history.

Even Romans dispersed, but turks simply migrated westwards for 2000 years with a series of Empires.

I cant historically think of anything more bad ass.

>>2965788
>4000 miles

Meaningless if you're going around a bunch of coastline

You act as if you were travering a great ocean like Columbus.

Do you believe Turks discovered the Americas too on that note?

>>2965803
The point is, we created an Empire that looted the most remote island of Europe as a big fuck you to Europe.

Because we COULD.

Turning the tables on Europe, enslaving them, assblasting them with their own medicine.

God I love being a Turk.

>>2965736
>acted as an intermediary for a plant other groups had been using before

>innoculation

You mean variolation, it was taken from the circassians.

>>2965819
>assblasting them with their own medicine.

You act as if Muslims hadn't been enslaving East Africans for nearly a thousand years.

Do you think you were fighting some sort of war against "evil europeans"? Do you think sultans considered the practice of slavery evil?

Your IQ is so fucking low, holy shit.

>>2965819
>Turning the tables on Europe, enslaving them, assblasting them with their own medicine.

See libtards? This is where a century of propaganda about "evil whites" and the "evil transatlantic slave trade, the most evil thing ever to exist!" has gotten you.

Non-Whites simply using the bullshit you faggots have invented against us deceitfully.

>>2965827
Aside from France and Brandenburg, Turks had sympathy for no European power.

Turkish cultural urheimat revolves around the "Red Apple". The concept created in Gokturk era that WEST (the color red) is an APPLE orchard to settle, to migrate to from the wastelands of Central Asia.

Turks had stopped at Anatolia but after the Varna crusade that Murat II had to win vs. Polaks and Hungarians and Venetians, conquest of the west was manifest destiny once again.

Europe itched, and we scratched for 600 years. Putting them in their place.

>Why is there such a hateful stigma against Turks
>demonization of the Turks

Yes, it's not like every other thread you create is "fucking cristian dog european nazi pig gayreek cCc greywolf bozkurt cCc we turkiye!!!!!!!"

You're significantly more hateful than most of the byzaboos here.

>>2965842
>Turkish cultural urheimat revolves around the "Red Apple". The concept created in Gokturk era that WEST (the color red) is an APPLE orchard to settle

Fake history. Anatolian peasants didn't give a flying fuck about "Turkishness" prior to the educational reforms the CUP brought about. They identified as their religion first and foremost, any insinuation they were some sort of group of nomadic steppe peoples would have been met with confusion, there wasn't even uniformity of language at that point, and the ruling class of the Empire had been so watered down by admixture and cultural acclimatization that they considered the term "Turk" insulting to them.

You're no different to Mexicans who believe they are Aztecs.

>>2965843
Literally never seen those, different board maybe?

>>2965856
Try a few posts above you, brainlet?
>>2965819

>>2965853
Spew your disinformation elsewhere, whichever butthurt little servant race you were. Slavshit, greek, kurd or armenian.

Turks were always the soldiers, the peasants and the laborers. The ones who died, grew crops and built weapons for the Empires.

It doesnt matter if the ruling elite fucked whorish european races and mixed.

80% of Turkey is still Oghuz Branch western Turkic, and I KNOW that makes you SOOOOO mad, because all you have for your own whichever minor irrelevant history, is how we subjugated and inculcated you.

Makes me smile.

>>2965859
Literally 90 IQ-tier country. Economy completely reliant on FDI.

When they have their own credit-fueled crash it is going to be beautiful to sit on the sidelines and watch.

ITT:
Insignificant melting pot diaspora races bitch and moan about how the bad Turks were an empire, and they were the shit cleaners.

>>2965862
>80% of Turkey is still Oghuz Branch western Turkic

The bulk of your genome is west eurasian:

>The largest autosomal study on Turkish genetics predicted that the weight of Central Asian migration legacy of the Turkish people is estimated at 21.7%.[4] The authors conclude on the basis of previous studies that "South Asian contribution to Turkey's population was significantly higher than East/Central Asian contributions, suggesting that the genetic variation of medieval Central Asian populations may be more closely related to South Asian populations, or that there was continued low level migration from South Asia into Anatolia."

This is irrefutable fact. Note that the degree of Central Asian admixture is 1) Obfuscated by South Asian admixtures and 2) Becomes less pronounced the further West you go in Anatolia.

>is how we subjugated and inculcated you.

I'm Hungarian, so no. What's funnier is that your people actually believe mine and yours share kinship of some kind, LOL.

And it's actually the other way around. Your ancestors were subjugated and islamized, and now here you are LARPing as a central asian mongolian pony lord.

I can't think of anything so pathetic. Cucked so hard you actually started to believe you were one of them.

>>2965870
>Insignificant melting pot diaspora races
You just described the Turks.

>>2965879
Turks are one of the most welfare dependant, most likely to be unemployed, least likely to be employed in STEM professions ethnicities in Western European countries. Even their diaspora is shit tier.

>>2965862
>Spew your disinformation elsewhere

He's right. Anatolia was a panoply of different languages before universal primary and secondary education (and ethnic cleansing) standardized the use of Turkish.

There's no cultural continuity between the inhabitants of Turkey and Central Asians, the only thing is the language. That's it. Religion, customs, the basic culture of being a nomad, even 90% of the genome: All gone.

If you want to claim language alone is enough to make a claim, then top kek: Sardinians are Ancient Romans, or Afro-Caribbeans are Anglo-Saxons by the same standard.

>>2965862
WE

>>2965896
WUZ

>>2965862
>80% of Turkey is still Oghuz Branch western Turkic

You can't seriously be this retarded.

It's right there, just one google search away. I guarantee you that not a single pop. genetics study will show admixture in excess of 25% (and that's counting groups like Turkmens usually).

>>2965878
Oghuz = Turkmen = West Eurasian

You are Hungarian so what?

The kinship we feel is not for assimilated wannabe Europeans like you, but the Ugric Magyar who remember their roots and Arpad, who was half Oghuz himself.

>>2965903
Sorry bro, its the truth. Sure language and culture play a more important role, but Turkmens and Turks from Anatolia look literally identical.

I'm not saying we didnt fuck millions of your women, we did. They were whores and concubines, but for the elite, not the average joe in a farmstead.

>>2961908
initiated the destruction or decline of lots of civilizations

File: 2nsqvbt.png (26KB, 814x694px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 814x694px

>>2965913
>Oghuz = Turkmen = West Eurasian

Oghuz are 30-50%+ East Eurasian, you stupid brown ape. And those are taking Central Asian Kazakh samples.

>The kinship we feel is not for assimilated wannabe Europeans like you, but the Ugric Magyar who remember their roots and Arpad, who was half Oghuz himself.

You mean the kinship you feel is for the 3 or 4 LARPers we have over here in total who buy into that stuff?

Nigger no one cares about your "Turan" shit other than you. Even the Tartars don't give a shit about it. You're like an unwelcome guest who invites yourself into a random guy's home and changes the channel (while getting sweat and hair all over the sofa).

Give it up.

And fuck Europe too. I have little affinity for the governments of Western Europe, but that doesn't mean I like literal LARPing Greek cuckolds.

>>2965899
KHANZ

>>2965922
>Sorry bro, its the truth.

Then prove it, all you have to do is provide a study showing 80% East Eurasian admixture among Turks. I've never seen a single Turk who asserts a Central Asian origin ever post any sort of evidence.

>>2965913
You do know hungarians are closer to finns than turks right?

>>2965878
>I'm Hungarian
KEK as if you're so much different my fellow assimilated slavshit friend

>>2965922
Your ambition is bigger than your capacity my friend. Look to your own country, rather than being a diaspora chest-beating ape. Split straight down the middle between two diametrically opposed ideologies, with a Kurdish fifth column 23% of the country and growing fast (Kurdish birth rate 4.1, Turkish birth rate 1.8).

Eyes too big for your stomach :)

>>2965878
>Your ancestors were subjugated and islamized, and now here you are LARPing as a central asian mongolian pony lord.
Your ancestors were subjugated and christianized, and now here you are LARPing as a central asian mongolian pony lord.

>>2965996
The bulk of Europe is de facto or de jure atheistic and Christianity could only be accepted unless it adopted values (like naturalistic art and iconography) that were diametrically opposed to semitic views (iconoclasm/censure of art for example).

That being said, yeah. Abrahamic religions are a shame in general.

>>2965996
All he said was he was hungarian, thats not really larping

>>2965922
>I'm not saying we didnt fuck millions of your women, we did.

And years later, those same women come here to get fucked by us, disgusted with how primitive most Turkish "men" are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADPY_SyQHS0

Enjoy your fat, baklava scoffing hijabis familia, because from what I'm seeing with Turkish female emigration, that's all you're going to have left.

File: image32.jpg (20KB, 280x275px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 280x275px

>>2961925
>>2961971

>>2965842
>T*rkish """"""""""education"""""""""""

>>2962205
WE

>>2966581
I just find the fact they actually believe there's this cultural continuity with a bunch of central asian nomads 1500 years ago funny.

No nigger, this wasn't some folk wisdom passed down from generation to generation. What happened was is the Turkish Government formulated a history curriculum that encapsulated pre-Islamic Turkic history as a way of creating a distinctive ethnic identity among Turks. All this crap about Gokturks handing down folklore about grey wolves and red apples is just bullshit.

There is no legit turkish folklore, apart from what they stole from the Persians and Greeks.

>>2965529
>arabized
It's Persianised and Europeanised really.

>>2965784
>3 genocides
why is it 3? Everything happened at the same time with the same aim it would be 1 genocide if you can even call it that considering the evidence against it being a genocide.

>>2965878
>that information
>Accurate
genetic testing in Turkey is banned.

>I'm Hungarian, so no. What's funnier is that your people actually believe mine and yours share kinship of some kind, LOL.

so do yours. Also like more than 20% of your language is Turkish.

>>2965893
Actually so many of the customs remain and the religion is the same, Turkics are Muslim too but the Islam in Turkey is a blend of Islam and Tengrism.