How was the life of a poacher in the middle ages? Specifically

File: crusadertommies.jpg (523KB, 1200x820px) Image search: [Google]

523KB, 1200x820px

>>2954792
1. Not much different from a forester, just kept to the woods to avoid suspicion of poaching

2. Poaching back in the middle ages was different than today. Instead of hunting tigers or elephants illegally, they just killed some deer on a lords land without permission. Doubtable that it was a very organized thing larger than afew guys dicking around in the forest on the weekend.

3. They probably had some other person (wife?) process or cook the meat or make furs into clothing whilst the man hunted. Keep in mind one has to live near deep forests to make poaching viable, so likely just some cabin by the woods with your wife or some mates.

4. Bows/Crossbows with appropriate ammo for hunting, what would you expect?

5. Money, Apathy for abiding his lordships rules, food, it really all depends on circumstance.

>>2955473
>1. Not much different from a forester, just kept to the woods to avoid suspicion of poaching.
But aren't forester patrolling the woodlands on a lord property? How would they avoid them?

>2. Poaching back in the middle ages was different than today. Instead of hunting tigers or elephants illegally, they just killed some deer on a lord's land without permission. Doubtable that it was a very organized thing larger than a few guys dicking around in the forest on the weekend.
I thought it would be more since it would be a lucrative business to make some coin.

>3. They probably had some other person (wife?) process or cook the meat or make furs into clothing whilst the man hunted. Keep in mind one has to live near deep forests to make poaching viable, so likely just some cabin by the woods with your wife or some mates.
And would they sell that meat at some market in town? or would he give the meat to the villagers in exchange for some favors? Also, did they have children if they were in did married?

>4. Bows/Crossbows with appropriate ammo for hunting, what would you expect?
I don't know something more concealable? Slingshots, or some traps

>5. Money, Apathy for abiding his Lordships rules, food, it really all depends on circumstance.
I see

>>2955602
Not him but I'l try to answer anyway
>1
There weren't that many, the lord would rather spend manpower to guard roads and settlements because that's where the money was. Forests back then were very large and even today you could go to a nearby forest and kill some fucking rabbit with no one catching sight of you, even if you shoot a gun.

>2
For most of the medieval period in catholic europe the peasants didn't own land, they worked on their lord's land and they kept a tiny portion of grain which they could sell to buy clothes, beer, whores, etc, or they could save for the winter as to not starve. This leads me to believe that poaching was really common during the winter, and you'd poach more for the food than you would for the cheap furs.

>3
They'd sell the meat to butchers, or they'd store it and eat it most likely. The furs would likely be sold to the merchants and craftsmen in towns, but they could trade furs for cheese or wine or whatever else. I think most poachers were actual peasants and weren't living a full on life of delinquency, so they'd probably have families and shit.

>4
Javelins were the most common hunting weapon as far as I know, maybe because any dusty little pointy stick does the same job as an expensive bow or slingshot.

>>2955473
>having money for a crossbow
>putting your life at risk by hunting in the king's woods

something's really not making sense here - poachers were either really desperated men or criminals with little possessions struggling to live day by day

>>2955950
a hunting bow is not very hard to make nor it is difficult to obtain back in the days

besides, they mostly used traps

>actually an intresting thread about history
>few replies
>bait threads get hundrets

>>2955966
I thought bows were expensive as fuck.
Also what kind of traps?

>>2954792
Was being a poacher THE life? Imagine your life of going out every day to catch some fish or hunt a dear while your wife stays back at the cabin with your children. At winter you all huddle around the a fire while telling stories to each other, eating venison

>>2956019
today they are but back then, not really, mastering it was difficult

traps can be as simple as a hole filled with sharpened wood sticking out from its bottom and covered, loops, strings, easy to place things that will cause much pain for the animal, but that wasnt really a concern if you were poaching in your lords forrests

>>2956145
yea, until the forrester found you and you hang on a sunday in the middle of the market

File: Poacher's clothing.jpg (80KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 600x800px

>>2956152
>Implying I wouldn't kill him before he tries arrests me.

>>2956159
>implying you wouldnt be taken away by a dozen of the lords mercenaries

watch less robin hood Jason

File: e3aa1f91b762a0a27b9b8af823bee97c.jpg (63KB, 504x679px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 504x679px

>>2956170
>Implying I haven't prepared for such an inevitable battle.
You're not dealing with the average peasant M'Lord

>>2955473
>>2956145
How would a house/Cabin for the poacher and his family even look like?

>>2955968
I know anon

>>2955473
>>2955832

t. people who don't know but figure their guesswork constitutes a good enough answer

>>2956547
I dont see you giving an answer then m8

>>2956967
The blind leading the blind

>>2955966
i was talking about crossbows though
>>2956019
a good bow made of good wood would be pretty expensive, but shitty materials were also available for poorfags

File: 1497075868785.png (274KB, 1000x649px)

274KB, 1000x649px

>>2957441
>shitty materials were also available for poorfags
Like what? The average tree?

>>2957882
>*gets shot, killed and freezes into a glacier then thawed out thousands of years later and researched on in spanish*

>>2955968
I feel your pain

>>2955968
See >>2956547
People aren't posting because who the fuck knows about poachers in the middle-ages unless they're an actual historian whose specialization is something related?

>>2956205
>nothing personnel, sire

>>2954792
>True, the Norman forest laws were harsh. There were two overall categories of offence: those called vert and those termed venison. The vert concerned vegetation - forbidding the chopping down of trees, the making of inclosures, anything that could damage the habitat of the king's deer. These were the lesser offences. The venison crimes concerned the poaching of game and, most especially, deer. The Conqueror's penalty for killing a deer had been blinding. Rufus had gone even further: a peasant who killed a stag must suffer death. The forest laws were hated.

>But there were still the ancient common rights of the Forest folk; and these the Conqueror left largely intact and even, in places, extended. In Pride's hamlet, for instance, though a piece of land beside his homestead had been taken under forest law - which Pride regarded as an imposition - except during certain prohibited periods of the year, he could turn out as many ponies and cattle as he pleased to graze all over the king's Forest; in the autumn his pigs could forage on the rich crop of fresh acorns; he also had the right to cut turves for his peat fire, gather fallen wood, of which there was always plenty, and to carry home bracken as bedding for his animals.

>>2958422

>Brother Matthew had known the prior didn't like Luke. By putting him in charge of the grange he had been giving Luke a chance to prove to the prior that he was reliable. But when young Martell and his friends arrived, demanding shelter for the night, it hadn't been so easy for a simple man like Luke to refuse.

>He knew they'd been poaching, of course. They even had a deer with them. It was a serious offence. The king no longer demanded your life or limb for killing his precious deer, but the fines could be heavy. By giving them shelter he was guilty of a crime too. So why had he done it? Had they threatened him? Martell had certainly cursed him and given him a look that frightened him. But the real reason, he knew in his heart, was when Will had nudged him and whispered: 'Come on, Luke. I told them you were my cousin. Are you going to embarrass me?'

>They'd eaten all the bread and a whole cheese. They didn't think much of the beer. The best beer and the wine for guests was all at the abbey, not out there at a humble grange. In the morning they had gone.

>There were only half a dozen lay brothers at the grange besides himself and as many hired labourers. But there was no need to say anything. They had all understood. The illegal visit would never be mentioned to anyone.

>>2958426

> "It is presented that on the Friday before the Feast of St Matthew last, Roger Martell, Henry de Damerham and others did enter the Forest with bows and arrows, dogs and greyhounds, to harm the venison ..."

>The charge, which would be inserted in the court record in Latin, was read out by the clerk. It gave exact details of what the poachers did and was not contested. All threw themselves on the mercy of the court. The justice looked at them severely while the forest folk in the hall listened carefully.

>'This is a venison offence, carried out in open contempt of the law, by those who, by reason of their position, should know better. It will not be tolerated. You are amerced as follows: 'Will atte Wood, half a mark.' Poor Will. A stiff fine. Two of his cousins stood surety and he was given a year to pay it. The other local men in the party all got the same.

>Next came the turn of the young gentlemen: five pounds each - fifteen times the amount of the Forest men. This was only just. Finally, the justice came to Martell.

>'Roger Martell. You were, without question, the leader of these malefactors. You led them to the grange. You took deer. You are also a young man of substance.' He paused. 'The king himself was not amused to hear about this matter. You are amerced the sum of one hundred pounds.'

>A collective gasp. The two sheriffs looked shattered. It was a stupendous fine, even for a rich landowner; and it was also very clear that King Edward himself had approved it beforehand. Royal disfavour. Martell went white as a sheet. He would either be selling land or losing his income for many a year. Manly though he was, he visibly shook.

>>2958433

>That summer of 1635 there had been no less than two hundred and sixty-eight prosecutions brought before the Forest court. The average had usually been about a dozen. The Forest had never seen anything like it. Every inch of land they had discreetly taken in the last generation, every cottage quietly erected, all were exposed, all fined. There was not a village or family in the entire Forest that hadn't been caught. None of the fines were lenient; some were vicious. Labourers occupying illegal cottages were fined three pounds. You could buy a dozen sheep, or a couple of precious cows for that, when most smallholders had milk from only one. A yeoman was fined a hundred pounds for poaching. A few yards of ground taken for some beehives, a troublesome dog, some illegally grazed sheep - all resulted in abrupt fines. As always, when King Charles set out to assert himself, he was thorough.

>>2958436

>Here and there a Pride had graduated from the tenant into the yeoman class, owning land in his own name; and as often as not, when the local gentlemen chose some yeomen to sit with them on juries they'd be glad enough to choose a Pride. Their reason was very simple: these Prides were intelligent, and, even in a disagreement, men in authority know that it is always easier to deal with an intelligent man than a slow-witted one. A gentleman forester felt on firm ground if he said, 'Pride thinks he can take care of that,' or 'Pride says it won't work'.

>And if some well-meaning person were to suggest that Pride might have been doing a little discreet poaching on the side, the informer was more likely to be met with a quiet smile and a murmured, 'I dare say he has,' than any thanks - there being always a sporting chance that the gentleman receiving this information had been doing a little of the same himself.

>>2956205
>im not your average peasants

>>2956205
you are so fucking bad you couldent become a average peasant

>>2958422
>>2958426
>>2958433
>>2958436
>>2958439
Nice

realistically, Would they used a slingshot instead of a bow? I mean Slingshots are more easy to hide and you can hide it easily if you are planning on hunting

>>2955968
Its suffering.

>>2962311
They would probably just used a branch lying on the ground, bring it back to their home, sharpened and hardern it and use it as some sort of make shift javelin

>>2959324
Why even become a peasant anyways?

File: peasant.jpg (179KB, 778x658px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 778x658px

>>2964761

>>2964987
Truly an underrated occupation

>>2957931
So he was murdered or killed in battle?

>>2967377
Murdered

>>2955968
Mods are shit: more news at 11

>>2963571
How would that even work?

>>2954792
>>2954792
1. It wasn't really a "lifestyle", just something they did, same as shoplifters today, though I'm certain some people did make a lifestyle out of it, in the same way some people become experts at pick-pocketing and stuff in today's age

2. No, not that I know of. Do shoplifters roam around in gangs? If one person gets caught, he's liable to rat ALL of you out. You work in small groups that form naturally, out of people you know you can trust. It could be your brother, your father, your neighbor (neighbors back then relied on each other way more than we do now), some dude you saw who was poaching at the same time you were, so you stuck together because you realized there was an advantage to working together

3. Probably did. It's not academic at all, but my theory is that a very certain type of people poached, and that would be the kind of people we would know nowadays as the type we'd label "degenerates" and such. I mean, if you think about it, druggies and goons share a very similar psychological profile, so it's only fair to assume that the same people of ye olde times also shared this similar "I don't give a fuck, fuck the po-leece, get money" attitude. Selling lots of meat like that would be kind of suspicious, so they probably had a "black market" back then too for meat, just like any other illicit good. It's possible that they might have a bit of a reputation among this same circle of "seedy" people as a poacher, likely due to regular-old gossip and shit, but most "common", "law-abiding" folk probably wouldn't be in the know

4. Depends on terrain and country. Could be they used dogs, traps, bows, spears, probably not horses, but bait and trap would probably be very popular (spend less time in King's forest looking for animals to hunt, and since forest is so big, it's unlikely a ranger would stumble upon it because it's hidden and only you know where you placed it)

pt 1

>>2968314
5. Again, not very academic of me, but it's my own personal theory. It's likely that poachers shared the same genetic predisposition for defiance of authority and boldness as modern day druggies and goons. Probably raised in a harsher environment and grew up in a setting where poaching and breaking the law was regular (family trade or something). Whoever you know that dealt drugs and skipped school in class? Those people's great-great ancestors were probably literally poachers and smugglers and shit back then. Unscientific, I know, but the logic is right there.

Also, sorry for my rambling and incoherency. I don't have an excuse like "I'm drunk" or something. I just really, really, really, REALLY couldn't be assed enough to put any effort into grammar and spelling and shieeet right now. I promise I'm much more articulate in real life.

>>2955473
>>2955602
>>2955832

Oh shit, didn't even read these guy's replies in the first place. I swear I didn't copy my response from them or anything either...I'm smart too ;_;

>>2956159
>"Psssh. Novght to be taken personably...yovr sire"

Great, now not only are you a poacher; you're also a murderer. And now not only are you a murderer; you're now a murderer of the King's personal ranger. You know how cops nowadays all KNOW who the criminals are, but they can't just up and arrest them because due process and evidence and stuff? Yeah, now imagine that, but the king can say "fuck due process, I'm the king and I get what I want", and now his guards are hauling your ass to jail because they KNOW you're a suspicious character, but they just don't know that you're the guy they're looking for, but who cares because you fit the bill and the king wants whoever's responsible arrested NOW damn it, so they take you because you're a likely suspect, and now you're going to be hung (your poaching isn't 100 percent discreet, asshole, there are neighbors who know, and the guy you sell your meat and furs too have a sneaking suspicion).

Fuuuuuuuuug

>>2956547
But they use some pretty sound logic. I'd wager you can work out a lot of historical context by cross-examining modern-day equivalencies to fill the gaps of what we don't know about past-day equivalencies.

ie. History is useful because we can study the past to figure out the present. However, due to the crazy phenomenon of humanity's unchanging nature, we can ALSO study the PRESENT to figure out the PAST. And no, this isn't some crazy bullshit I just made up on the spot to sound legitimate. [spoiler]I made it up 3 weeks ago.[/spoiler]

>>2968248
Like it did for the past several hundred thousand years...

File: headImage.png (73KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 225x225px

>>2955602
>or some traps
Cute traps aren't concealable baka!

>>2957882
A bad ass Turk bow kills another pigskin white mudhutter

noice

>>2967377
Ambush, I think. Probs wandered too far into some dindu's territory who then proceeded to chimp out on his ass. Got shot in the back too, from what I can recall. Probably died fleeing. My head canon says he was trying to walk away at a brisk pace, thinking they were just harassing him, but then one of the absolute mad men actually did it and loosed an arrow in him, at which point he ran for a few more feet before succumbing to his wound. Possible he might have even been killed on accident. Guys might have been all like "Oh...Shit. My bad, dude. I actually meant to miss you."

>>2968341
Okay

>>2968381
At least I die a freeman instead of a serf

>>2969613
I am!

>>2970787
No you're not!

>>2968333
So psychopathy?

>>2972809
No

>>2968523
Traps are gay

>>2956380
Deep in the woods with just the bare essentials.

>>2972141
Am too...

>>2972809
Don't know if I could clinically diagnose every goon in Highschool with outright psychopathy, but, I mean, yeah. Mostly it's probably just being a product of their environment or something, but a small, yet unmistakable part of their life choices would have to be due to some sort of genetic predisposition for deceitfulness and treachery. I've come to call these types of people "Dylans", by the way, which are a smaller, inferior subspecies of the much larger, awe-inspiring "Chad".

>>2976463
I mean Couldn't they Start Poaching if their Lord was a Jackass to them? I read that Polish peasant from Villages would often more than not Start Poaching if their Lord was in any way abusive towards them

>>2976744
I don't think poaching was used as a direct weapon against shitty Lords; I just think it might have been one of many symptoms of a shitty ruler (ie. subjects have no respect for your laws if you treat them bad).

For example, I don't think people went "Wow, this guy's so shitty, let's all go on poaching sprees to show him what's up", I think it was more like:

"Hey, let's go hunt in the King's forest."
"Okay, but isn't that illegal and shieeet?"
"Yeah, but the King sucks, what do you care?"

And so people would go out and poach as a sort of sly middle-finger to the Lord's authority. If a king really was that shitty though, most people would probably just riot and sing unflattering songs about him in bars and stuff.

TL;DR
It's like the Boston Tea Party (sort of). People threw tea in the harbor as a way of expressing their outrage, not as a strategic attack on Britain's policy. In that same light, people poached on the king's land because they no longer respect the King's law, not as some premeditated attack on his character.

>>2976770
Perhaps you're right. But I still think it could be more personal between the Poacher and the Lord/King (Albeit One-sided)

>>2976779
I wanted to say that there probably WERE instances of people poaching purely out of spite for the king. I'm certain it's happened at least ONCE in all of human history, but I wouldn't be able to say with any certainty if this demographic constituted any real number of poachng incidents throughout feudal histories.

To be fair, if I were some peasant with a shitty king, I'd probably poach too, 2bqhwyf.

Were poachers living the thug life

>>2977081
Yes

>>2978071
Bitching

>>2954792
Where the fuck did they live anyways? In the Village? in a town? Or in the Forest itself?

>>2980228
On the road you pleb

>>2980228
in the village
normally serfs who were peasants officially, just poaching on the side, the entire thread is LARPing and should be deleted

>>2956145
No it was footpads or Highway men

>>2980665
Bandtis or marauders

>>2980511
THIS.

There were no proffesional poachers or what not. Poaching was something that peasants did.

Its like people in a thousand years asking what kind of lives Internet Pirates lived

>>2981504
>Its like people in a thousand years asking what kind of lives Internet Pirates lived
Under their parents basement

>>2982811
Rude

>>2984642
Its the truth

Everyone ITT should read 'The Devil in a Forest' by Gene Wolfe. It's a great book about a small community of Christian peasants clashing with pagan forest-dwellers. Extremely well researched and written. The author is one of the most acclaimed genre-fiction writers of all time and designed the machine that makes Pringles.

>>2985288
Go on

>>2981504
W-What? This whole thread has been nothing but people saying "poaching is something that peasants did", and one guy deliriously shouting "I'MMA BE A POACHER, FUCK THE PO-LEECE".

If anything, this entire thread has been filled with nothing but relevant, albeit unprofessionally disclosed, information.

>>2987607
Not an argument

File: cover.jpg (35KB, 299x475px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 299x475px

>>2986556
Protagonist is an orphan weaver's apprentice, about 14 or so so just about a man, he lives in a failing community with about ten other people. Their livelihood was St Agnes Fountain (sound familiar?), which used to draw in pilgrims who would spend their money on local services during their visits. The flow of pilgrims has been cut off by a local brigand who has become somewhat well-known for occasionally killing travelers on the road and generally making the area unsafe.

The local Abbe has the idea of forming a militia to drive the man off, triggering a violent sequence of events involving everyone in the town, the brigand, the community of charcoal burners living in the surrounding forest who may or may not be affiliated with the brigand, and the local authorities, in the form of some men-at-arms and the Royal Forester.

Gene Wolfe is one of the greatest fiction writers alive and most hardcore nerd literature polls on science-fiction and fantasy authors tend to place him roughly tied around GOAT with Tolkien. His work is always meticulously plotted and researched and in my opinion his historical fiction is second to none. His 'Soldier of the Mist' series, about an amnesiac Roman mercenary trying to find his way home after fighting in Greece and sustaining a severe head-injury resulting in memory-loss is also fantastic.

If anybody should be known as /his/'s go-to fiction writer it ought to be him.

From the Google - Peasants usually did not have weapons, skills or the extra time to hunt, so in order to provide food for their families they devised another way to bring meat to their tables, including snares [source: NationMaster].

While hunting was reserved for the privileged, it was illegal to buy and sell wild animals. It remained illegal to do so until the mid-1800s. Gangs of poachers formed outlaw bands and sold animals through the black market.

>>2988174
Sounds bree tasty. You legit shilled him enough into me wanting to check him out. What's your "favorite" Wolfe book? If you can't think of a favorite, give me the name of his most "popular" book, aka, the "Back in Black" of his songs, because even if a normie might not know AC/DC, they'll still go "Oh, you mean THAT song that everyone knows? Yeah, I like that band."
>>2988466
Didn't know about the roving bands of poachers, but I guess it makes sense. Success by the numbers and all that that implies. Makes me wonder what the reason was for illegalizing the buying and selling of wild animals. Surely there would have been animals caught on land that WASN'T forbidden by the king? Maybe it was because it's impossible to tell a deer from the King's forest from a deer from some random meadow, so they just said "Aw, fuck it. Let's just ban all the wild animals to cover all our exits, just to be safe".

>>2988758
The definitive Wolfe work is easily 'The Book of the New Sun'. Rather than being based in a historic era it's set in a very far future in which Earth and humanity have risen to greatness and then fallen back to a medieval state of existence following the collapse of what was a universal empire. The book has a fairly strong following on /lit/ but it's also very dense and full of allusions to history, mythology, and most confusingly, Catholic theology. Not one to just casually jump into but it's a fantastically intricate and well-written story.

It's also most likely my favourite, but he's done a pile of great stuff. 'The Fifth Head of Cerberus', a post-colonial story of failure and confused identity, and 'Peace', an American memoir delivered through increasingly fragmented and surreal anecdotes, are also strong contenders for my favourite Wolfe works.

>>2988811
Kinda intimidated because my /his/ and /myth/ skills are just as abysmal as my talent for Catholic trivia. How versed are you on these matters, and how much of the allusions were you able to understand? I'm at a "101" level for all of these subjects.

>>2988758
Book of the New Sun is my favorite book of all time for what it's worth.

>>2988844
An in-depth understanding of theology and classical mythology isn't essential, just some things might make more sense. The world of Book of the New Sun runs on a very medieval mindset and Wolfe has very old-fashioned ideas on how heroism works. What really makes Book of the New Sun hard to process for so many people is the style (memoir written in first person by the protagonist) and its content (protagonist is an ancient myth-style hero, meaning that by modern standards his actions can occasionally seem monstrous).

What's most important for processing it is appreciating that you're receiving the story as the protagonist tells it. He doesn't remember or understand everything around him as perfectly as he'd like to and he also doesn't want to share everything he knows and has done. The story is 1400 pages long and almost certainly won't make much sense after your first reading. But the second reading, when you've got a foundational understanding of the plot and higher workings of the story is so incredible as it all comes together that the next 1400 pages are like a completely different book because the experience is so different.

I'd recommend reading something else by Wolfe first. His writing can be quite a culture shock, and Book of the New Sun is probably the single strongest one out of his entire bibliography.

>>2988881
Time to reap the whirlwind. Downloading his New Sun series, esoteric references be damned. I, uh, I paid for them with my credit card...

>>2988919
>buying books
The honest /lit/ lifestyle is too expensive for me, but I'm sure Wolfe's grandkids appreciate your integrity. Or maybe he spends the money himself.

If it doesn't make too much sense after your first reading there's a mountain of analysis kicking around so you won't be lost for long. Just make sure you finish the complete The Book of the New Sun first. The supplementary/sequel novels aren't bad at all but the story stands perfectly fine and complete without them. My favourite Wolfe expert is Marc Arimini, he's written lots of helpful essays scattered across the internet and a book.

>>2989019
Oh, okay, I just said I paid money for it because I didn't want to get V&.

File: 1498077073646.png (353KB, 573x747px) Image search: [Google]

353KB, 573x747px

>>2988174
Nice. Any books recommendations?

>>2989774
Start with the Greeks.

>>2989805
Greeks arenshit

>>2962311
>Medieval times
>slingshot
Wat

>>2991061
I think he meant "sling", in which case, "maybe?"

Some guy up there posted about the how peasants didn't have the time to hunt, or that they even had the time to learn how to hunt at all. Personally, if I were a peasant, I'd probably carry around a sling too, along with a sharp, disposable stick or something. Snares and traps all the way, my guy.

>>2989805
/lit/ please go. You have you board free to talk about any books you like.

>>2992230
Well peasants were resourceful.

>>2993071
I know, I'm not saying they weren't. But say you were some dude who lived with a wife and three kids, and leaving your house meant leaving them all alone, which could be potentially dangerous, and staying too long in the forest increased your chances of getting caught. Your best course of action is to just set up a bunch of cheap, easy-to-make traps and catch a bunch of fat bunnies or something.

Could turn all the furs into a nice coat for the kids, because you'd probably be a nice guy c:

>>2991021
Greeks are everything.

>>2992241
/lit/ is garbage.

>>2993329
You're garbage

>>2993329
Only if its spartans

>>2994174
Why spartans

>>2955473
Where the fuck do you even get this information from, you think you are some kind of historian or something? Get off your high horse cunt

>>2995795
from historical books and no

>>2995795
Take one of his points and dispute them

>>2997548
Everything

>>2994174
Spartans a shit. Their whole society was built around oppressing helots and they couldn't even do that right.

>>2997548
Not that anon, seems easy.

>kept to the woods to avoid suspicion on poaching
You'd immediately be known as the guy who is well-fed despite having no honest trade and spends all day in the woods. How the fuck do you avoid suspicion in this situation?
>Doubtable that it was a very organized thing larger than afew guys dicking around in the forest on the weekend.
>dicking around
Hunting is hard work, if you don't know your stuff you aren't getting shit done. Who are these other guys? And who the fuck are you?

>lady works the dead animals
What? Does the guy poach full-time? Good luck explaining your subsistence to the authorities.

>bows/crossbows
If you can afford quality weaponry why do you need to poach? And where are you buying crossbow bolts?

>money
Nobody's buying this shit
>apathy for rules
retarded
>food
only one that makes sense

>>2997672
And yet Athens lost

>>2997681
>Well fed/Suspicion
Who's going to tell? Did Foresters back then roam around the countryside pointing at pot-bellied children exclaiming "Ah! There's one! I've found a son of a poacher!"? And to what degree? Most poachers probably just snared a few extra rabbits every week. If you were to compare a picture of a 140 lb man and a 160 lb man, would you be able to say for certain that it wasn't simply genetics? Or perhaps the heavier man just got breastfed more often as a child?

>Hunting/Organized
I'm sure poaching WAS an organized affair, though I'd wager it was a minority report. Most poachers probably just set traps and snares in the king's forest or went out to grab a few pigeons or turkeys if they really wanted to stick their necks out.

>Explaining to authority
Again, literally who gives a shit? And I'm not saying that out of annoyance or anger, but literally who gives a shit? That's like saying "Okay, I'mma ban all guns, I'm gonna go around every house in America and make sure they give it all up to me right now!" No one would do that, that's crazy. If you keep a low profile, same as in our times as it was in the past, no one will ever look your direction.

>Bows/Crossbows
Agree with you, for the most part. In England, for example, it wouldn't be too surprising to find a longbow in your every man's house. Not exactly sure if it's the best thing to take in the King's forest though. Not exactly subtle, and getting caught with that thing practically screams "I'm guilty!" to anyone with eyes in their head.

>Nobody's buying
Black market for everything, but I also agree with you to some extent. It's probably similar to modern day fencing. How hard is it to find a buyer for, say, stolen car parts? I'd say that's a fair comparison for how difficult it might be to find someone who dabbles in black market animal parts.

>>2998064
>Apathy
I think the word he was looking for was "disrespect", which I agree, seems unlikely, though I'm certain it must have played some very minor role in some very trivial number of poacher's experiences.

>Food
Sure. Food is the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of the word "poached".

>>2997939
And Sparta is now the capitol of modern Greece and the entirety of post-classical Greek western thought is based on the teachings of Spartans.

>>2998173
Atleast youbkbow now

>>2954792
this thread reminded me of when I was a kid and used to dream about living alone in the forest, now I barely go outside anymore.

>>2999796
I don't go outside either, and I still dream of living alone in the forest.
>>2998173
kek

>>2999796
What happened anon?

>>2998173
Hey at least they won their war

>>3000726
Got older I guess. Part of me feels like running off to go live in the woods would be exceedingly selfish, I sort of have this moral obligation to get a steady income so I can take care of my parents as they continue to age. Even though to me it seems better to die young in the woods doing something I love, for my parents the pain of outliving their kid is not something they deserve.
But there can be compromises, currently trying for some degree in college that will hopefully give me opportunities to make that steady income while spending a portion of my time in the woods.

>>3001537
Do you atleast go camping?

File: 1493227139545.jpg (134KB, 466x700px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 466x700px

>>3002636
nope, I used to go hiking often though. Now I live in a different state that doesn't have many trails, let alone sidewalks.

you?

>>2968381
The guy he was responding to mentioned being hung for poaching. Given that the penalty for both crimes is apparently execution why wouldn't you kill the little prick who would happily send you to the gallows? Furthermore, if a ranger disappears in the words and his corpse is found decayed and chewed on by scavengers months later how in the fuck would anyone determine he was murdered by a person unless the murderer in question left some sort of evidence on, near, or in the body of the deceased?

>>3003521
In my case, I would have just bribed him.

>inb4 peasants are poor

I'm unironically le grill. Money isn't the only thing people will be interested in, to be quite honest with you, family. Though if you were a dude I suppose you could just bust out your whole life's savings and maybe a donkey or something and hope that's enough to shut him up. A little diplomacy and flattery goes a long way.

>>3004023
they hang trannies back then too

>>3004264
Sexist

>>3004023
How wealthy were village peasant?

>>3004264
Quite rude, to be honest

>>2970707
Kek how old are you

>>3005518
The real answer? Depends.

If you didn't get sick, didn't get robbed, saved your money well, did your job well for lots of years (potter, farmer, tanner, etc.), then you'd probably be doing pretty well for yourself. Not "wealthy", but more like "living comfortably" or something. If you got sick a lot, got bullied, didn't manage your assets, and generally got shit on, then, well, sucks to suck.

I'm assuming they at least had chickens, maybe a donkey, if they could afford one, a house, some pots (eggsbensiv), MAYBE some silverware, some family jewels, and some tools like hoes, axes, shovels, as well as maybe a weapon and some armor, if it's one of THOSE societies (Earlier in Rome).

So, yeah, not too good, not too bad. Just...Existing. With this in mind, try to picture WHO would fit the profile of a poacher, and WHY they would do it. Someone from a poor, degraded family with nothing much to lose, and a healthy sense of "I don't give a fug, fug the bo-leeze".

>>3005894
Wasn't it possible for a peasant to move up. But it took either ages or a generation or two?

>>3006458
Yes but unlikely

did the font just change?

>>3006458
>>3008146
Yes but unlikely

If your dad's a farmer, you're a farmer. If your dad's a potter, you're a potter. It's not like you can go to blacksmith-y school or something, unless someone took you in as an apprentice, in which case you better have been born handsome, charming, and male (basically, whatever the fug "a good lad" is supposed look like). Hell if I'd give an apprenticeship to an ugly, uncharming boor.

>>2964761
You don't have the men, money, or arms to fight bandits, roaming bands of troops, or local warlords. That mother fucker up the river has a walled settlement, owns plenty of land, and has an army but has no one to work on his land and provide food for the settlement, his army, and himself. Now you're a man who knows how to farm, you offer up working and living on his land in exchange for him going out and keeping you safe from anything that wants to rape your family and kill you by stringing each limb to a different horse and letting them pull you apart alive.

>>3008871
Chad wins again

>>3008927
But I mean you could become a bandit or become a local Warlod.

>>3008871
Not quite true, any peasant with more than one son would send them off to apprenticeships as they would not inherit the farm. And then you got guilds...

>>3010467
I thought the younger brother would helped around the farm and in return he would be allowed to stay and be fed until he has a farm/land himself to feed himself and his family?

>>3010433
Hey, just a quick question-- What do you think the quality of life is like for your average Somalian AIDS pirate? Now go back 400 years and try to imagine life as a medieval brigand. Not fun.

>>3008181
No

>>3003482
Don't know why. But I loved going to the woods

>>3010918
Not an argument

Hard.

>>3012206
What? No!

>>3012749
Yes you idiot. Being a peasant was suffering

>>3012200
Alright, you want an argument? The King's Guard.

ITT: people who think there was some kind of medieval FBI and IRS who will set up round the clock surveillance to spot some random peasant being slightly more fed than the other random peasants, or having slightly more money than other random peasants despite not visibly working slightly more.

>>3014641
>americans

why are you all so fucking stupid?
poachers were caught, simply by the fact not alot off ppl were around that time and it was easy to spot someone who had access to meat/fur

yea serfs were payed by an hourly wage! stupid nigger

>>3014741

And how were they caught? By someone catching them in the act or with their quarry, not by lurking outside their door taking weight measurements each day and spotting that John Le Fukker weighs 1/89th of a stone more than Simon de Scumpot.

>>3014805
By setting up a sting idipt

>>3015237

And who's going to set up this sting? What organisation exists in medieval Europe to perform such an operation? How is that more likely than them just being caught in the act or with the proceeds of the act (which is attested to in historical court records)

>>3010625
False

>>3014641
Exactly. Like, what the fug do they think foresters did? Walk around town condemning anyone they thought was even slightly suspect of poaching? Even back then, convictions required evidence, and being slightly taller or slightly stockier than your next door neighbor was NOT enough to put you in the slammer.

People HAD legal access to rabbits and birds in many legal regions.

>>3014741
This anon is a dumb Europoor who sucks at being /his/.

>>3014641
Living in a small rural community it's a bit like everyone in the area is your round the clock surveillance

>>3017209
I think even back then, people recognized the age old motto of "snitches got stitches".

>>3018466
Forester offered thirty silver coins and i am selling you out faster than judas did to jesus

>>3019507
or rather forrester reported to lord someone is poaching from the village, soldiers arrive and either collectively punish it or they give out the thief

>>3017168
in the common forrest idiot, a poacher is operating in the lords land

>>3019586

>someone shooting the Lords deer
>he sends in his soldiers to punish everyone

That's not how actual medieval society worked.

>>3019729
Di you dare question the lord?

>>3020015

Protip: a lord isn't an absolute ruler

>>2962311
Slings take a crazy amount of practice, a bow is child's play in comparison. They are super easy to make and the ammo is smooth River some if you are poor. I have made slings from tree bark, you're up the fingers and eventually frayed to breaking though. Any strong and pouch can make a sling. There is also the windup and space required.

>>3020823
You speak of treason

>>3020824
What about javelins

>>2955832
>and they kept a tiny portion of grain
You mean 90%.

>>3020015
When I do, it's called a rebellion, and the Lord will answer openly to the people and her weapons.

>>3022708
A peasant such as you should learn their place

File: IMG_20160921_224109.jpg (861KB, 3264x1836px) Image search: [Google]

861KB, 3264x1836px

>>3003482
Fuck yeah, some of my earliest memories are off going to the woods to hunt or gather firewood. The woods are awesome.

File: IMG_20160702_152202.jpg (3MB, 3264x1836px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 3264x1836px

>>3022085
Dunno, probably much less than a sling. If you fuck up a javelin throw bad enough to hit yourself in the back of the head you have problems. With a sling there is a reason you don't stand near newbs.

>>3023486
Wtf phone, wrong picture.

>>3023269
Rule as you do, and yours will be at the end of a pike.

File: 1498859083346.jpg (33KB, 276x233px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 276x233px

>>3023513
>Thinking a peasant can beat a lord

>>3023486
The most I would do was go out and try to start a campfire or chop down some tiny tree. The best times was when I would play manhunt at night, with my neighbors. Hiding in the trees/shrubs while listening for any movement is so fucking primal

>>3024186
Peasants have beaten Lords for hundreds of years. All they've needed was a spear and a reason.

File: 1436829114269.png (150KB, 424x480px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 424x480px

>>3025726
>Peasants have beaten Lords for hundreds of years.
European peasant revolts were overwhelmingly failures

>>2954792
That's sort of a modern misconception as the action of stealing game from a lords land wasn't considered profitable at the time. Implicitly there simply wasn't enough to make that viable as opposed to being an actual bandit. So who were poachers? Peasants in hard times, travelers, gypsies, bandits, etc. It was only ever a means to an end ie. food.

File: IMG_3504.png (123KB, 640x1136px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 640x1136px

>>3025750
The german peasant revolts lead to thr largest wars in human history.

>>3025841
Are you that 15 year old from earlier? Even if that statement were true, the thirty years war was in no way a victory for the peasantry. Literally tens of thousands of villages were destroyed, millions of peasants died and the experience for many of the survivors was far from pleasant, including shit like getting tortured by soldiers because they believe you're hiding valuables or food. There's practically no conceivable way it relates to what was said previously, except to add to the argument that European peasant revolts were terrible fucking failures by bringing up a major German revolt that was brutally crushed.

You're not making any sense you dumb phoneposter.

>>3025903
The German peasant revolt led to the 30 years war where the nobles were slaughtered which led to the French revolution, all because of the greed and exploitation of workers by the nobles.

>>3025920
>The German peasant revolt led to the 30 years war where the nobles were slaughtered which led to the French revolution, all because of the greed and exploitation of workers by the nobles.
Well, you pretty much hit the nail on the head 10/10

File: IMG_3508.jpg (271KB, 1515x1136px)

271KB, 1515x1136px

>>3025920
Due to the habsburgs role and the HRE role as the scourge of the peasants the protestants princes had the morale for War.

File: IMG_3511.png (91KB, 640x1136px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 640x1136px

>>3025937

>>3025985
If we're just gonna quote wikipedia
>The institution of serfdom declined after 1381, but primarily for economic rather than political reasons

File: IMG_3513.png (329KB, 640x1136px) Image search: [Google]

329KB, 640x1136px

>>3026002
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J0p-egT5vek

The exploitation of the nation led to the glorious revolution.

File: IMG_3514.png (403KB, 640x1136px) Image search: [Google]

403KB, 640x1136px

>>3026055
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J0p-egT5vek

>>3026121
And they say a knight and shining armor doesn't exist

>>3025750
>>3025841
>>3025903
>>3025920
>>3025928
>>3025937
>>3025985
>>3026002
>>3026055
>>3026121
>>3026816

The point is, if you want to rule wisely, you obviously should treat your peasants with humanity, because no matter who wins the revolt, nobles or peasants (or even slaves), a revolt is still a revolt, and it's going to fug your kingdom ub. France should know what I'm talking about. Even if the nobles won, they were still disastrous affairs that could have been avoided before it got out of control.

>>3026998
Treason

>>3027499
Within reason

>>3027513
Treason is treason. Now kneel to your lord

>>3027666
You shall find me kneeling at your funeral, sire.

File: 13703169_1597593843866690_1948117076_n-1.jpg (28KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 480x480px

Could a peasant petition his king if a lord was being abusive towards them?

>>3028160
I know for sure that serfs could do that in Russia. The big problem of course, a commoner would find it really difficult to actually come face to face with the king.

>>3028271
How difficult

>>3010433
Pretty shit career choice. If you're born a peasant chances are you aren't trained in combat and you don't have the highest quality weapons and armor. Now you could steal some chickens and bully some merchant into giving you wine but eventually a bounty hunter is going to land an arrow between your eyes in your sleep.

If times were tough and the lord couldn't pay for shit you could join a gang of highwaymen but even then you're just a bunch of thieves with no knowledge of combat. If you run into a traveling mercenary company they'l cut you down and take your shit before you can say 'You's crossin' the wrong bridge you is'

If you want to become a warlord you'l have to join a band of mercenaries or marauders and rise to the top, which means you'l have to fight constantly and there's a high probability of death in fighting, much easier to just plow your fields and wife.

>>3029347
extremely

File: latest.png (675KB, 724x687px)

675KB, 724x687px

>>3027723
We shall see peasant. Coning of the dawn we shall see.

>>3028160
there was a yearly tour of the king doing jury duty, you can imagine what were the chances of him hearing you

>>3019729
thats exactly how it worked dumb delusional murrifat
why do you think there were annual rebellions in feudal monarchies?

>>3032392

Then I'm sure you will be able to provide plenty of citations of collective punishment being meted out in response to low levelevel criminal activity?

>>3032422
then lick my hairy asshole lazy tard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Winchester

PLUS most of these are not even documented since, you know, serfs were generally not seen as human as long as you werent killing them like cattle

File: IMG_7635.jpg (19KB, 157x231px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 157x231px

>>2997672
>lose one battle to Thebes because they 'cheated' by tilting their phalanx
>become isolationist for the rest of your culture's tenure
What did they mean by this?

>>3032510
Their ego are fragil

File: tumblr_nqotmzqEwm1rfsryko1_1280.png (675KB, 800x1035px) Image search: [Google]

675KB, 800x1035px

>>3032387
What if the king is just?

>>3035404
No such thing as a just man

>>3032349
Aye. You shall have a clear view of the field from atop the head of a pike, my Lord.

>>3036011
edgy

>>3032456

>And if the district does not answer concerning such manner of malefactors

So, they only punish everyone, if no one bothers to investigate wrong doing? Cool story Bro.

File: 1412935246724.jpg (134KB, 512x512px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 512x512px

>>2962311
>Slingshots are more easy to hide and you can hide it easily

>>3032510
Not an argument

>>3037233
and thats why we said the village will give the poacher up itself, you eternal turd

>>3038545
Shat if they don't

File: 1494910919158.jpg (71KB, 555x776px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 555x776px

>>3036422

>>2957931
I laughed about this more than I should, granted I'm high as a kite

>>3032387
Tell me more anon

>>3035404
you can be just as you want, you have a day to sit court and be the judge

even if you ignore protocol, introductions, useless politeness, praising of your bum and so on, it would still be impossible to decide in every case, ON SPOT

it was more of a gesture, to show yourself, that you indeed are there as a king and will deliver justisce if needed be

>>3032510
Why does /his/ hate spartans? They are better than the Athens

>>3038545

No, we've gone from foresters spying on people to see if they weigh 1/4 lb more than their neighbours, to the Lord sending in his boot boys because someone shot a deer, to the village offering up criminals willingly.

>>3041626
How much coi

>>3041589
Because spartans are /fit/

>>2955832
>any dusty little pointy stick does the same job as an expensive bow or slingshot.

Confirmed for having no idea what you're talking about.

>>2998064
What about taxes?

>>3044995
If it killed.

>>3045148
What about them?

Taxes get paid or you'll draw a lot of unwanted attention to yourself. A little word of advice to any would-be poachers lurking in this thread; they found and killed Pablo Escobar because he didn't want to pay his taxes. If you want to cheat your way through the game, you had better first learn to play by the rules...

>>3030380
>what is a robber baron

In Lapland they chased meese in deep snow with skis and hit them in the forehead with an axe to kill them.

>>3045148
What about them?

File: 1496212575494.png (347KB, 458x419px)

347KB, 458x419px

>>2957234
You have a pair of functional eyes, contribute

>>3044995
>slingshot.
You are correct, it would have been a sling.

>>3045599
A sling or bow can be used to propel a projectile far further and with much greater force than the human arm. Too bad peasants didn't have atlatls.

>>3047292
I also heard that you hunted and killed the king's tax collectors. Just pay the shoe tax

>>3045986
A german lord

>>3020824
can you please fucking formulate a sentence correctly, you moron?

>>3050227
What?

>>3050553
Not an argument

>>3053076
Not an argument

>>3020824
*Slings take a crazy amount of practice, a bow is child's play in comparison. They are super easy to make and the ammo is any smooth stone if you are poor. I have made slings from tree bark, you will fuck up your fingers with something that rough though, and the bark frays to breaking after a relatively short time. Any string and pouch can make a sling. There is also the windup and space required when using the sling so you cannot shoot from brush.
>>3050553
Better? That's what I get for quickposting on break, and you forgot to capitalize the start of your sentence.

File: 1493679961832.png (120KB, 439x344px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 439x344px

>>3054227

How the fuck do you autists ruin a thread so quickly about criminal activity in the middle ages holy shit

>>3041589
Because spartans are jocks

>>3054677
The entire thred was about criminal activity