How did various countries in the late 15th century develop unique

Can u pls post some examples of each bb

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>>2942625
There* not their, I'm getting worse as I get older

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>>2942627
This is Germanic

OP image is Earl Warwick's (allegedly) reproduction suit, so English styled Italian armour (there's fluting added)

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Pure Italian, very flat

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Typical English harnesses

Thanks for posting this, I hope someone will answer you. You're interesting me

>>2942625
I'd assume it has something to do with either the smiths or the cost of or availability of steel in their respective regions. Italy being likely filthy rich from being right at the Mediterranean and Germanic peoples being maybe poorer or some shit like that.
More than likely though its the smiths, I highly doubt they go to schools to learn how to shape metal. They probably become an apprentice of the local armourer and learn from him the crafts and different regions will have different armourers so there will be differences. Eventually most of the armourers from a certain region would have the same style of armour.
I'm no expert on this so don't quote me on it.

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>>2942625
All of them are compromises.

Italian armor provided less movement and vision for the head and less ideal on foot than say English armor.

English armor was less suited to horse riding and provided poor protection against lances compared to say Italian armor.

Gothic armor with its fluting does a good job of providing some rigidity but also allows weapons purchase, i.e. they might not glance off.

People chose what they liked and no design was ideal for everything.

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>>2942838

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>>2942845

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>>2942848

Italian ones were /fa/, German ones were /fit/, English ones were /diy/

>>2942838
Sources?

>>2942838
>less movement and vision for the head
not if you wore a barbute

England and France kept the Great Bascinet for longer than Germany and Italy didn't they?

>>2942901
No but we're obviously talking about the armet here.

>>2942879
Copy of lecturers by Tobias Capwell and a glimpse at his new book + common sense.

I could elaborate if you like.

>>2942962
>elaborate

Please.

Also do you have a list of books associated to read?

>>2942625
>Is their objective superiority to be found between the various styles?
Fluting made the armor sturdier, and italian designs had better joint coverage and flexibility. By the late 16th century tho the only difference was aesthetics.

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>>2942982
English armorers are optimized for fighting on foot. The faulds on many English effigies are longer than their continental counterparts. Having longer faulds gives better protection to the groin but comes at the cost of being less than ideal when sitting on horseback.

On English armor you occasionally find the upper leg being, close to, fully enclosed in plate rather than only covering the front and outside. This added protection comes at the cost of being less than ideal when sitting in the saddle, you lose some sensitivity in feeling the horses movement.

Plate sabetons tend to be used to protect the feet with mail voiders protection the ankle joint. This allows for good movement on foot. German and Italian armours either have plate covering the joint or use an all mail foot protection. The English version is a compromise between mobility required on foot and maximum protection.

The couters tend to be symmetrical and not overly large or small. When it comes to arm defense we see that fully enclosed upper arms were a thing in English armor while some German styles opted only for having half covered in plate. The shoulder protection on an armor like pic related is smooth and rather flat when viewed from the side. Downward blows from something like a poleaxe were 'encouraged' to glance away from the shoulder. In Italian style armor we see shoulder armor aimed more at making couched lances glance off.

cont.

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>>2943027
cont.

Italian armor like pic related had shorter faulds that were adequate enough for people being seated on a horse. The upper leg was left open on the inside and backside so that the rider lost none of his 'feel' when riding.

His arm protection is clearly made to allow the use of the lance and withstand the impact of one. The emphasis is on large plates with smooth glancing surfaces. If smaller plates riveted together were used the impact of a couched lance would not be as efficiently spread as the strength of the rivets limits the transmission of the impact to their breaking point.

Large pauldrons (especially on the left hand side) are drawn from a single piece and shaped with ridges and lines to encourage a lance to glance off instead of biting into the armor. Such ridges can be less than ideal when facing an opponent on foot with a pollaxe, a downward blow from one might snag on the ridges and tear off the pauldron. You can clearly see the design is for working against piercing rather than cutting attacks.

The couters are also made from large plates intended to distribute the force of impact and encourage glancing blows. The upper arm itself is actually quite vulnerable to lances if jousts are any indication, having a large overlapping pauldron and couter might mitigate that.

The gauntlets are again made from a large plate rather than multiple small ones like a gothic gauntlet might be. Dexterity has been dropped in favor of maximum protection.

>>2943027
That suit is a bit old tho. 1430-40s?

>>2943156
40-50s IIRC.

Though it is a modular set and I have seen him use it with a different fauld

this is actually cool, any one have anything more to add.

>>2942625
What if I told you, it was all due to their extreme vanity? That it was mainly created/showed as to one-up another lord/reagent's sense of fashion/wealth

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Scots apparently wore skirts with their plate armor but I have no idea why.

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>>2943383
Everyone did that in the first decades of the 16th century.

Its called a base and its entirely fashion as far as I am aware.

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Just me or is 1996 Diablo's full plate warrior armor aesthetic as fuck?

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>>2943403

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>>2943383
It's called a 'base' and they were quite trendy all over Europe

Scottish bases can be quite different though in that they were sometimes made to resemble belted plaid that Highlanders would wear in their daily life. Highlanders wearing plate armor is quite rare historically so you don't come across them much.

Scottish armor generally follows English and French designs and trends but obviously in the Highlands there's more influence from Irish armor.

>>2943416
>Dinna spak tae me or me wean e'er agean

>>2943416
>Irish armor
You never hear much about the Irish during this period, what would they be wearing?

>>2943442
Mail, burgonets, perhaps some cuirass. Irish aren't know for they armored dudes tough.

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>>2943442
Stuff that was a few centuries out of date.

Does anyone know which armour was used in the Burgundian Netherlands?

>>2943591
I've heard terms like Italo-Flemish and Anglo-Burgundian thrown a lot. The thing is that Flanders was one of the largest trading centers north of the Alps and it formed a hub from which all kinds of armor were exported. You could conceivable buy every type of armor. I am not sure if there was ever a true 'native' style or just widespread use of imports and fusion of said imports

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>>2943442
In the 15th and 16th centuries stuff like this. Their light troops went unarmored for the most part apart from maybe a helmet while their heavy troops wore coats of mail with long aketons underneath, they wore similar helmets to Scottish soldiers but there are also quite interesting native designs, some that look like they're straight out of the Classical world.

In the early 17th century the Irish Lords rapidly modernised their forces and by the Williamite War they were mostly operating in the same manner as troops in the rest of western Europe, with some native quirks, like continuing to use heavily armored melee troops, archers, and light skirmisher cavalry.

>>2943027
>>2943055
It's fascinating how plate armor is essentially an early form of symbiosis between man and machine.That is, if you are willing to accept my premise that a set of plate when viewed holistically, is a machine designed to preserve it's occupant while maximizing his kinetic energy offensively by providing physical support and reinforcement in key areas.

Men as tanks, to put it simply.

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>>2943673
Here's one of the more famous native Irish helmet designs

Keep in mind they were wearing these things well into the 17th century

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>>2943706
Irish soldiers from the period are also quite often portrayed with Spanish gear, and going by the archaeological record morions were particularly popular.

The same goes for swords. Traditional Irish swords are absolutely massive, but when those started to be less effective they started to imitate Spanish designs.

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>>2943673
>use bows and arrows in the 17th fucking century
>get conquered
Who could have forseen this

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>>2943427
top jej

>>2943427
English armour dumbass

>>2943747
>unicorn on the lobster pot's visor
>plate is covered in thistles
>English
???

>>2943747
>oi cunt don't speak to me or me lad eva agen, innit bruv?

>>2943416
>Don't talk to me or my king's son ever again

>>2943641
Thank you for this useful information. It's good to know that there wasn't a Netherlandish armour,

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>>2942625
It should be considered that the Milanese style of armour was around earlier than the Gothic style. At the time Milanese armour was worn Kastenbrust was the style native to Germany.
Gothic armour, while probably having originated in Germany, was however also made in Italy being kind of a "new" fashion that arrived in the second half of the 15th century. During the very end of the 16th century Maximilian armour kind of drew a compromise between German Gothic and the Italian Milanese armour, retaining however distinct fluting. During the 16th century the styles kind of merged and it can be very hard to tell an armour made in Nuremberg from an armour made in Milan unless it can be attributed to a distinct master or embodies some very specific kind of costume armour, e.g. mimicking armour of antique as it was popular in Italy.

Does anyone else find it kind of depressing that full plate armour was only used for a period of a little over 100 years, i.e the 15th century?

>>2943427
Underrated post.

>>2945260
Well there may have been but we're not just sure.

It was only a decade ago that some guy realized English armor actually was a pretty distinct style and he researched that on the basis of effigies. The research area is still 'virgin ground' if you know what I mean.