Reminder not to actually go to a diploma mill for a /his/ related

>>2925216
It's easy as fuck to get a job as an archaeologist if you live in Europe or the Middle East

>>2925222
Good luck uncovering ancient walls while sleeping in a tent and not having a life, all for shit pay

>>2925222
Shit pay. It'd be super interesting work, but that put me right off.

>>2925557
>>2925250
Materialistic fucks

>>2925216
>words have meaning
hmm makes u think

>>2925216

>words have meaning

fucking liberals trying to push their agenda

I'm an electrician but I also have a Master's in history.

You can never understand history on the same level if you just "read in you spare time". That's like saying "just read about astrophysics in your spare time". You might be able to scrape together a rough idea but you'll never understand it on the level of someone who has properly studied it.

>>2925216
>words have meaning
Literally the only thing I disagree witah in that list, unless it is intended as a purely pragmatical statement (not "words bear actual metaphysical meaning" but more something like "what you say and the way you say it directly influence society to a certain extent" which would be a reasonable statement).

>>2925216
>unless you're rich or have a scholarship
/thread

>>2925222
well, leftists haven't ruined it yet

but probably soon, archeology will be about finding african settlements in Europe, unveiling the real europeans.

>>2925717

You don't disagree that "science was developed thru colonization"?

>>2925216

Apart from the comment about "science" which I suspect probably has some sort of context, the rest of that slide doesn't seem entirely unreasonable.

But race and science are social constructs OP

>>2925845

"Words have meanings"?

>>2925846

Sure, but where they created "thru colonization"? Well race /maybe/, but science?

>>2925851

You don't think words have meaning?

Race was created before colonization

>>2925867

Words are arbitrary noises, the meaning lies in the relationship between words, ideas, images and concepts. The words themselves mean nothing.

>>2925854
>science was developed thru colonization
What kind of argument could've been made in support of this assertion? Maybe that science was largely developed by prosperous elite whose existence and prosperity relied upon oppression (including colonial) or what?

>>2925878

>the meaning lies in the relationship between words, ideas, images and concepts.

So meaning then.

>>2925888
Does the word "Gabaegogagi" have any meaning to you?

>>2925216
just avoid liberal arts colleges and get an international studies/relations degree from a good uni

>>2925216
>Learn a trade
ok Jamal

>>2925916

But that's exactly the point I was going to make to you, we aren't just making random noises at each other or creating random squiggles. We are communicating with each other because we are using words with meanings.

I was going to ask YOU whether yo understood "weeble bibble bobble" in the same way you understand "it's hot today".

I'm not that familiar with this post-modernism stuff but I'm certain if you think the claim "words have meaning" is some claim that a random noises that aren't part of a language have meaning then you arguing against a strawman of your own imagination.

>>2925885

Not the same person, but the only example I can sort of think about is arbitrary classification of creature where the European one always is preferable for the one from outside of Europe.

The colonizing powers held Carolus Linnæus in high regards because he classified species based on looks (today we know that phenotype and genetic categories isn't as closely related as we used to think) compared to, say, classifying species based on usefulness or something like that as they did outside of Europe (China comes to mind iirc).

Even if you buy it, you have to do some pretty big mental gymnastics to go from that to "science develops trough colonization".

>>2925949
Words have no inherit meaning. They have the meaning you give to them. That was the whole point.

>>2925932
>international relations
>not just even more smug more exclusive group think

>>2925932
And then enjoy what? Quasi politicking?

>>2925962

The meaning given to them by societies, yes, rather than you as an individual. But I seriously doubt there is any claim being made here that say the word "titties" would be automatically understood by aliens from another galaxy because the noise / symbols have inherent meaning.

>>2925962

Words have meaning by definition, it it has no meaning it isn't a word.

>>2925216
>words have meaning
what the fuck is this? What is she even trying to say with that?

>>2925222
>It's easy as fuck to get a job as an archaeologist if you live in Europe
You gotta be american. Archeology in Europe doesn't land you jobs, it lands you research assignments where you're paid like minimum wage for a year.

>>2925872
Race has existed for as long as (well, maybe a few hundred years less than) life has existed.

>>2925216
You know tertiary education isn't the same everywhere. There's no reason not to take a degree in history if you're in a country where it costs 1k/year and you don't have mandatory lesson attendance.
I got mine while working a fulltime job, and let me tell you it makes a very big difference in how you see history. It's all about method rather than content.

>>2925982
>words have meaning
>what the fuck is this? What is she even trying to say with that?

If the words you used to ask that question have no meaning why didn't you just write "bdsbvfkjfvshfhbv" and hope someone would magically understand?

>>2925997
>mandatory lesson attendance.

why the fuck would you go to a university if you have to attend shit

learn the meaning of facultative classes

>>2925216
Today I got my bachelor in Art History & Archaeology, just another useless scrap of paper. I don't in now what I can do with it, probably nothing. I'm working my ass off in a restaurant for the time being, I want to do something else with my life. Any idea fellow /his/torians?

>>2926002
In Italy most unis are like this

>>2926014
>In Italy
I have the feeling that italians are wildly overrepresented on this board compared to the rest of 4chan.

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>>2925717
Tell me how the fuck science was developed through colonialism without spouting SJW anywhere nonsense.

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>>2925997
What school?

>>2926007
Yeah, work in a trade, make big money, read history for fun. I wouldn't say my degree was useless, it helped me grow intellectually and as a person. Learning to work on supermarket refrigeration however, grew my wallet and paid for my home.

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>>2926033

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>>2925680
>understand it on the level of someone who has properly studied it

Like someone who studied in their spare time?

>>2925680
>who has properly studied
>properly studied

U've been fucked

PRO TIP TO UNDERGRADS

DO NOT GET A BA IN HISTORY

MAJOR IN SOMETHING WORTHWHILE

MINOR IN HISTORY, OR DOUBLE MAJOR IF YOU CAN

t. Me

There are exceptions, and those who are planning on going to to things like law school are likewise exempt, but don't for the love of god get a humanities degree and expect to just figure things out

I look back on young me and wonder what I was thinking. My parents were too supportive and should've smacked me

>>2925216
There are actually people who major in something that can't give them a job?

A history education can get you a decent administrative job, the skills are all transferable.

>>2926069
>>2926075

Most people who read history for a hobby don't even glance at historiography or historical theory, which is required in any non-shit history education.

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>>2926114
Anything you recommend for the layman?

>>2925216
This is probably just some dumb cunts after hours talk.

>>2926084
I don't know if this is really good advice. I did choose to eschew history for medicine (med school starts straight out of high school in my country) and I ended up dropping out. I do believe that unless you're actively interested in what you're studying you should avoid tertiary education altogether, studying something you don't like doesn't really pay off.

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>>2925590
THIS
If we have one life, why not do something you enjoy?
>b-but muh money
You can always find a way to earn money.

>>2926114
Does Foucault count?

I got a BA in history, and I regret it now. I fell for the "study what you find interesting anon!" meme, but I can only blame myself. You can't do shit with the degree. I wish I had been more foresighted back then.

>>2925216
Ironic that someone actively trying to destroy culture is complaining about someone else doing it.

I had some right-wing professors

>>2926084
>>2926189
Learn how to market yourself, or widen your scope. Most employers don't care what your degree was in unless you're in a field specifically tied to a certain profession (medicine, engineering, etc.), and most people don't end up in a job that's remotely related to their field of study. Most jobs just require a degree, and you have that, so go out and get the normie office job your degree qualifies you for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species

https://www.stonybrook.edu/commcms/philosophy/Egger_FS%20Baum_Erster%20Umbruch.pdf

This is literally pointless to discuss without context, for all we know that slide could be referring to reading material

Sorry, I am too good for manual labour and don't want to become a working class scum.

>>2926027
>I don't understand science, the protest
Why do liberals insist on embarressing themselves like this?

>>2925216
Wtf do the mean by "science is a social construct"?
Are they refering to the understanding of what qualifes as science or the actual 'facts' of science? They can't really argue that science is only 'true' within a certain culture can they?

>>2925961
Wouldn't that not just be "classifcations are based on arbitrary connections" rather than "science is based on colonisation"?
The foundational science wouldn't really change if you choosed to define speces by hight or by which ones taste better on the grill.

>>2926104
>>2925216
What idiot can't get a job as history teacher?

>>2927901

Science is a human endeavor, to that extent it is a social construct just like language or math are. What the dopey PoMo cunt in OP means by it I don't know (and don't care).

>>2927938

You.

>>2925800
stop huffing memes lad

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>>2928047
You say these are just memes but... https://www.google.com/amp/s/decolonizeallthethings.com/2016/11/10/we-need-decolonial-scientists/amp/
>I think that W.E.B. Du Bois puts it best, “One could not be a calm, cool, and detached scientist while Negroes were lynched, murdered, & starved.” Not then, not now, not ever. What many see as apolitical ‘objective’ science is out of context, ahistorical, dangerous, and incorrect. Science as an institution developed alongside the logic and interests of the nation state. The vision of designing better products is never outside of the political program of designing better citizens. You cannot do your work and remain quiet while people are silenced and suffering
>It is not taboo to be a bigot in the United States, its an accepted and expected behavioral practice and demanded in many cases. These contemporary colonial relations dominate our minds and how we teach our children to treat other human beings. White supremacy is central to how we socialize our youth and regulate adults into model citizens, designed to defend the logics of settlement and profit even at their own expense.
> I reviewed the history of race as a eugenic math that functions off of eugenic logics that sorts bodies into political order and students listened on. I told them that the ways in which people are taught how to be a model ‘person’ in this society is problematic. I told them that we can change and don’t need to rely on internalized white supremacy to value ourselves & others
>Yes your work has a political program: white supremacy. And in order to work towards one that respects & works with the everyone’s humanity in mind you must work to become a historically competent scientist. Its time for us to examine the values and political relations in our lives and around us and envision better ones that aren’t based on colonial ideas about gender, race, sexuality, age, ability, etc..

>>2925216
Do they let any retard teach at college now?

>>2928839
>now

>>2928011
Aight, so if I understand you correctly it just means that it's a process/construct of human tought and not something in and off itself. The 'truths' garnered from it is still viewed as true allbeit perhaps distorted by the fundamental human elements within the system? If that's the case then I can't really see anything wrong with that notion. It's seems accurate to me.

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>>2926027
What do they mean by "science"? Who takes science away from them? Who stops them from making innovative researches and win Noble's prize? No one.

>>2928908
>The 'truths' garnered from it is still viewed as true
Nope. Pomos are retarded.

>>2929338
What does Pomos mean?

>>2927060
>he says as the head of the executive literally says that climate change is a chinese hoax.

>>2929306
See >>2928829

>>2925216
That's a philosophy class

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>>2925216
>PhD student with scholarship
>working in archive all day reading cool stuff in secret police files
>from time to time present your findings and get drunk with other historians afterwards
>get invited to conferences all over the world
>get a jobs lined up for you
>hurr no become a wage cuck

>>2929582
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemological_anarchism

>>2929706
wow good job librarian

what could possibly go wrong in the future

also

>cool stuff in secret police files

are you really pretending that it's fascinating? didn't you know courier new burns through retina in a matter of weeks?

Should I go for my master's in biological anthropology? I can afford to do it without putting myself in debt, but can I make a career in it not reliant on academia? Or should I just dive into trades or teaching high school history?

>words have meaning

What did she mean by this?

I accidentally entered library sciences, I have no proper training but I keep getting odd jobs. I just volunteered at a random college for a summer and later found out it was famous or something. I feel like that one comic where the fat guy keeps getting promoted for no discernable reason.

>>2930043
>didn't you know courier new burns through retina in a matter of weeks
What did he mean by this?

>>2930581
You're too late anon, I already have one semester left to get my BS in economics and an IT minor. I seriously wish I knew about trade schools or even community college before I had to apply.

>>2929714
Cheers!

>>2926027
Giving plebians rights was a mistake
Neo-serfdom when?

My /his/ professor from last semester sent me a letter asking me to take on a history minor because he enjoyed my paper on the American Revolution so much. Current major is a CS/fine arts hybrid. Should I minor in /his/?

If you guys are interested in understanding what people mean when they say "decolonizing science" instead of memeing read on.

During the very beginning of colonization when the church still had a lot of say in political affairs it was illegal to publish a scientific work that had non-Christian sources. The church continuing the Roman tradition of LARPing as Greeks had allowed Roman and Greek sources to be considered "Christian".

This was also the age where the communication between the west and the east was gathering speed. So a lot of what was learned from other cultures (mainly Islamic and Indian as well as Egyptian) was retconned as Greek. There is little non-textual evidence that trigonometry, astronomy or algebra was in any way developed during the ancient Greek periods. For example the radius of the earth calculated to great accuracy by Indians didn't reach that accuracy in Europe till almost a millennium later. Tables of sines etc. were magically made much more accurate just as soon as certain Arabic and Indian texts were translated.

So basically all the scientific and mathematical progress made by other civilizations was dubbed as either Greek or "independently" discovered by Christian scientists. This worked hand in hand with the actual colonization a few centuries later. These civilizations were taught that all science and math comes from Europe.

So when we talk about decolonizing science and math what's being talked about is giving the correct credit to other civilizations for human progress in science. It does not mean the Europe's contribution to science be erased (it's still the greatest contributor even if you strip the dubious contributions). All it asks for is when speaking about discoveries unless we have non-textual evidence that it happened in Europe, the first piece of textual evidence originating from Europe not be considered the de facto origin. Since it continues the CHurches tradition of disregarding non-Christian sources.

>>2931482
Europe dominated modern science, that's a realistic, empirical fact since the 1400s

it's not "Eurocentrism" it's just the reality of the situation


decolonize science is not what you think it means, it means take down all western forms of knowledge

>>2925680
>"You can never understand history on the same level if you just "read in you spare time""

>"You'll never understand X unless you learn it from someone who couldn't do X in the real world so had to settle for teaching it instead"

Never understood this logic.

>>2931504
I wouldn't disagree. Scientific progress outside Europe ground to a halt for the most part after the advent of colonialism and was slowing down before it. But when people talk of decolonizing science they do not mean to strip the west of its contributions. The idea is to set the record straight for a lot of ideas and discoveries credited to the west that have little evidence of being western in origin. Especially in the areas of trigonometry, metallurgy, astronomy, calculus, algebra and medicine.

I'll try to make a thread going in to more details about this debate (and I don't think it's settled one way or the other) but I don't know if many people are interested in it and it's a lot of effort to compile.

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>>2925216
I actually had a class on post-colonialism to-fucking-day

>>2931504
>Europe dominated modern science, that's a realistic, empirical fact since the 1400s
No, Europe CREATED modern science in the 1500s

>>2931583
>>"You'll never understand X unless you learn it from someone who couldn't do X in the real world so had to settle for teaching it instead"

You can definitely learn history (or anything else) well by working in a field related to it instead of under a professor. But it's very hard to actually work under someone doing work in any field without the proper education. The alternative is self-study which can never be as effective as either education or real-world experience.

>>2931482
the mathematics that we know of today are essentially Greek. The Babylonians and Egyptians made great contributions to mathematics, but it was the Greeks that provided the first Axiomatic Deduction system i.e Euclid's Elements

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid%27s_Elements

it's not "Eurocentrism" but the reality of the situation

>>2931933
See >>2931956
Unless you can give some concrete examples instead of theories and urban legends you're not fooling anyone.

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>>2925825
>>2926027
I would argue Colonization was possible trough the Socially Construced Method that is Science, but that you can't have it the other way: Science isn't a construct made by colonization.

Then again, OP posted a picture where with a person that is really really confused on how expansion and trade works. So the second paragraph is just a parrot statement without meaning.
And the last one looks like a skim note, left there to avoid choking if she forgot the pacing of the summary. Which is bad practice.

>>2931949
Europe created formalism. Which was an extension of the church. The formalist rigor which caused great strides forwards in science in the past is essentially dead apart from some pageantry in modern day science. Even the calculus we actually use today is closer to the Kerala School calculus put forward by Aryabhatt than formal calculus since computers cannot do calculus the way Newton did it.

>>2931956
Interesting that you bring up Euclid he's an example of the retconning I alluded to in my initial post. No Greek text actually mentions Euclid by name. We have no idea if Euclid was Greek, he's referred to only as the author of the Elements by Greek sources. Till the 18th century there is no mention of Euclid in Greek manuscripts. The first mention of Euclid in any text is Latin texts of the 12th century. The only thing we kind of know is that the author was from Alexandria (not Greece). The Latin sources are all derived from Arabic house of Wisdom. Interestingly in Arabic Uclides means key to geometry.

Regardless, even if we consider the author and origin to be irrelevant I suppose we can still enjoy the fruits of Axiomatic deduction which is so logically sound that it require a 300 page manuscript by Burtrand Russel to prove that 1+1=2. Snarkiness aside, axiomatic science has little to no bearing on modern technology although it does have a lot of clout in the formalist hard sciences. The reason axiomatic deduction is held up in such high regard in the west is actually a remnant of the Churches stronghold over science and indeed the west. They considered Christianity to be the logical faith and thus held pure logic in high regard. This is why Elements is so important, it represents pure logic. Nevermind that purely logical proofs based on axioms are an exercise in religious futility.

I got my BA in History while doing IT work in the Army. Comfy AF Anons. See cool parts of the world, jump out of airplanes, and setup internet for higher ups. Then, in my copious amounts of down time, I read history books, shitpost on Mandarin markee markets, and blow money on hobbies.

>>2926199
Then you went to a shit school

>>2932065
So Europe made 0 contribution to science, interesting, however the fact is other places lagged behind Europe and there has to be a reason for that.

Did Leonardo da Vinci go on a secret trip to the Kangdom of Kongo, learn some kind of witchcraft and bring it back to Europe where he could put it to more use? What did he bring back specifically? What is your theory?

Is getting a BA in History (probably gonna double major too) worthwhile if your endgoal is to go get a Ph.D and teach at a college level? Is that last goal even feasible?

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>>2925216
>words have meaning

>>2932065
>Alexandria (not Greece)

Isn't that being somewhat pedantic?

>>2932184

Are you a woman or a non-white?

>>2932194
I'm biologically male but I might be mtf transgender, I'm still introspecting about it

>>2932187
They do tho

>>2932127
>So Europe made 0 contribution to science
Nice way to misrepresent my assertions to make me seem like a nutjob who believes that Europeans made no contribution to science although I've said in multiple posts that Europe is the greatest contributor to science.

Europe's strides in science (or more correctly technology) have very little to do with the axiomatic formalism that everyone is supposed to hold in great regard. As a matter of fact formal mathematics and sciences might actually be hurting scientific progress in the current age by seducing the best minds away from more useful fields.

I don't know why you bring up Da Vinci, a brilliant mind no doubt what exactly were his contributions to the progress of science?

>>2932190
Is it? When your proof for modern science being European in origin lies on the shaky premise of a book on axiomatic deduction, the origin of that book being Egyptian is fairly jarring. Couple that with the fact that no Greek sources actually mention the author by name and the fact that the Greek numeral system had no way of using Algorithms I think the location becomes fairly important.

Again, to me axiomatic deduction is an exercise in spiritual masturbation so it wouldn't matter if Elements was written in Norway but it does matter to the assertion on the basis of its own premise.

>>2932198
Post pic and we'll say if you'd look good.

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>>2926027
>He doesn't know that African science lets you shoot lightning bolts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9SiRNibD14

>>2926027
>the absolute fucking STATE of the modern left
FDR is rolling in his grave.

>>2929590
GOP doesn't sit around talking about how smart they are then go and pull something like this.

>>2932229
Alexandria was a Greek city you utter idiot. You may as well call George Washington a redskin because he was born in America. Or call Socrates a nigger because he was ugly with a flat nose.

>>2925216
>this is what all Leftists (all Leftists are SJWs) actually believe
Holy shit, hahaha

>>2932065
He was mentioned by proclus and pappas of alexanderia.

Anyway your point is moot. We have mentions of him being Greek. All you have theories. For example, despite Greeks like Pythagoras giving us great knowledge on math it is vaguely possible Euclid wasn't Greek despite the only evidence we have for him pointing to be Greek.

This is the biggest problem with leftist revisionism. They grasp a straws simply for the sake of europhobia. If anyone comes up with some actual evidence (which you have not, Euclid was clearly mentioned before the 18th century) i'd love to see some.

>>2934067
Funny you should mention Socrates as Socrates clearly was a black man based upon the fact that Plato mentions studying in Egypt in Egypt to get all of his knowledge. Plus Socrates is described as being pug noses and curly-headed.

>>2934092
>This is what SJWs actually believe

>>2925590
i'm 20 and everything is set up for me to make BIG money as an eventual daily manager through family and connections, yet i'm going to throw it all away and probably study history or some shit, then get a job that actually interest me

>>2932065
>The Latin sources are all derived from Arabic house of Wisdom.
Arabs having "wisdom" is a meme. their copies of Aristotle were garbage and the ERE was the real keeper of knowledge in Medieval Europe. When Turks conquered the ERE many Greeks fled to Italy bringing with them Greek manuscripts and that's when the renaissance began.

>>2926178
No.

>>2925590

>have massive interest in archaeology
>presented with opportunity to work there
>lolno shit pay
>die sad never fulfilling your dreams
>b-b-b but i went to las vegas, paris, disneyland and d-dubai! i m-made money!

>>2934067
Alexandria was Greek but next to Egypt. Egypt is where a lot of Greek scholars went for their education. Non-textual evidence (such as their superior calendar and architecture) shows that Egyptian understanding of mathematics was at a higher level than the Greeks. Also, given that no Greek manuscript dated before the 18th century mentions Euclid by name the chances of the author of the Elements being Egyptian is much higher than him being Greek. I mean who writes a book and doesn't put his name on it? None of the other people from his time did this in Greece.

>>2934083
I don't have to present evidence because it's not possible to prove a negative. The claim is Euclid was Greek. There is no Greek manuscript from before the 18th cen that mentions him by name. There are Latin manuscripts that do but even those aren't older than the 12th cen.

Euclid being Greek is the claim, him being Egyptian is a hypotheses. The claim requires much stronger evidence.

Pythagoras is another interesting one. India and Egypt had demonstrated knowledge of the Pythagorean theorem far before Pythagoras is purported to have existed. Texts and non-textual evidence such as knowing the radius of the earth, having a more accurate calendar and architecture all of which is based on the understanding of trigonometry far superior to what the Greeks have ever displayed. Yet The foundation of trigonometry is supposed to be Greek and the most popular theorem attributed to Pythagoras. This is exactly what people mean when they say science must be decolonized.

>>2935090
Doesn't change the fact that the Latin sources about the Elements are Arabic. The Greek sourced ones came later.

Also, it's interesting how while some of you have raised points about the historical veracity of my posts none of you have even tried to give an explanation as to why axiomatic deduction is important to science and why it's held up in the scientific community as being sacrosanct.

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>>2925216
>I will get into STEM and follow a career as a video game design-

>>2927927
Sure, but you would then claim that the reason one arbitrary order was preferred before the other is because of colonization. While both in the end would come to the same scientific conclusion, "science" as we now it would be "based" on colonization, where more powerful nation force their order and preferences on lesser, more "barbaric" cultures and their ordering.

Again, I'm playing the devils advocate here to make sense of the statement even if it ends up being something mundane and non-important since it would boil down to" the white man holding us down by forcing us to use red-coloured magnifying glass when our blue ones are perfectly fine from a pragmatic standpoint".

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>My only talent is that Im good at languages
>Can speak english fluently but only other language I know is german (at intermidiate level)
>Going for a degree in translating
How fucked am I? Im gonna have to learn german that is for sure, but I dont think that will be enough, because most people can speak both of these languages. Im from eastern europe. Can I save my life by learning some arabic/asian language? What would you recommend /his/?

>>2931504
>Europe dominated modern science, that's a realistic, empirical fact since the 1400s
Thank the Turk's for fucking it up for everyone else

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>>2930066
>>2930077
>>2930088

Holy kek. Three consecutive double dubs.

>>2935178
>There is no Greek manuscript from before the 18th cen that mentions him by name. There are Latin manuscripts that do but even those aren't older than the 12th cen.
Wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid

It says he was mentioned by the Greek Proclus in 450 AD and Pappus of Alexandria in 320 AD. Not contemporaries but if your're bullshitung so hard on the 12th century claim, what else are you bullshitting on?

>>2935241
>India and Egypt had demonstrated knowledge of the Pythagorean theorem far before Pythagoras is purported to have existed.
No they haven't.
>Texts and non-textual evidence such as knowing the radius of the earth, having a more accurate calendar and architecture all of which is based on the understanding of trigonometry far superior to what the Greeks have ever displayed.
Name some of these non-existent text. I'll wait.

>>2932120
Except he didn't.

None of the information in OP's photo has been debunked. Scientific racism was created during colonial times by Europeans...

File: images-47.jpg (40KB, 303x485px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 303x485px

Has this science been decolonised enough yet?

>>2925949
Ive had whole conversations with friends who shared a common knowledge with our eyes and slight movements of facial features.

>>2935936
There is literally nothing wrong with scientific racism.

>>2935888
When we're discussing how colonialism reshaped history to come up with the narrative that science is a western construct, you cannot point to a wikipedia entry which says
>The only reference that historians rely on of Euclid having written the Elements was from Proclus, who briefly in his Commentary on the Elements ascribes Euclid as its author.
without showing an actual Greek manuscript that names Euclid. But let's proceed as if it were true. The paragraph preceding this (the one with the actual citation) says
>There is no mention of Euclid in the earliest remaining copies of the Elements, and most of the copies say they are "from the edition of Theon" or the "lectures of Theon",[17]
So for ~ 700 years from when Euclid is supposed to have existed we have no text ascribed to him even though every other work of that time has an author and many contemporaries have even commented on Elements without referring to the author. 700 years is a long time for this sort of knowledge to persist without any textual evidence.
As for the 12th century claim, that's based on what I've seen with my own eyes. I've never seen any Greek source actually name Euclid. I might be wrong on the time where we find the first source but it doesn't change the premise of my argument. There is no clear proof of where Elements was written and by whom. Greek philosophers and scholars would visit Egypt to study. Egypt had greater trigonometric and mathematical proficiency as evidenced by their superior calendar and architecture. We have a mathematical book written to the best of our knowledge in Alexandria, right next to Egypt. Greek sources of this book do not mention an author. Yet it is taught as irrefutable fact that Euclid was a Greek man. It's also considered a fact that Greek civilization is the basis for Western civilization. The only real purpose these two things serve is to prove that science is a product of western civilization. When you talk about decolonizing science this is it

>>2928829
>graduate student with one published paper
>I write this essay with the poignant words of writer and Sociology Phd student Zoe Samudzi in mind
wow it's literally fucking nothing

>>2936030
>it's difficult to find surviving copies of texts from well over a thousand years ago
>therefore the ancient Greeks didn't actually practice any of the intellectual pursuits they were famous for, fuck whitey

>>2936030
See >>2935897

>>2936122
>they were famous for
No ones doubting that they were famous for their intellectual pursuits. The doubt is about the attribution of credit for discoveries, them being the source of western (read: white) civilization and the relevance of axiomatic deduction in the progress of science.

I know that making multiple points within a discussion might be too hard for veteran memers to handle since it becomes harder to strawman multiple positions to "win" the argument. But there's more to life than winning internet arguments. My hope is some people actually examine the concept of western imperialism and colonization of science truthfully. Even if they reach the conclusion that they were right all along.
>>2936141
I have to go out right now. I'll try to answer this post once I get back.

>>2936164
>No ones doubting that they were famous for their intellectual pursuits
>The doubt is about the attribution of credit for discoveries, them being the source of western (read: white) civilization and the relevance of axiomatic deduction in the progress of science.

>I don't doubt the Greeks are famous for doing things.
>I just doubt they did those things in the first place
Dishonest anti-white shit.

I am not fond of the idea that people should go to university to get a job, this is only true for a few fields i.e. Medicine, Engineering and a few others and it definitely helps out with quite a few others but in most cases it is best to get a job and study part time. Going to university and studying arts and most science fields is either a hobby since you are wealthy or should come after you have a job and can afford it.

That out of the way it would be cool if we had a /his/ degree with a 'course' for levels 1,2,3 with a few different things making up different levels. Along the lines of read x, y, z watch these online lectures and documentaries and then write a 2000 word essay on the subject. Nothing formal but a cool way to get a broad knowledge of history.

>>2935241
>Alexandria was Greek but next to Egypt.
Holy shit your knowledge of geography is as bad as your knowledge of history. Alexandria was a Greek city in Egypt. Not a Greek city next to Egypt. A Greek city IN egypt. A city in Egypt filled with Greeks.

>>2936367
>most science fields

You would literally grind all scientific research to a halt.

>>2936511
Should have specified Vocational Science fields. Most science stuff will require a degree but some doesn't.
No need to go to university to learn to be a programmer or an environmental scientist or even a zoologist. You can get entry level jobs in those fields and then study part time on the side instead of getting a degree then realizing there are no jobs. Hell your employer might even help pay for it.

>>2936191
It's not anti-white, it's anti-colonial/imperial. Unless you think modern day white people are culpable for colonialism and imperialism it's not anti-white.

>>2936400
It's in modern day Egypt. It was a city next to ancient Egypt.

>>2935897
From the Sulbasutra written in 8th-7th c BC.
>dīrghachatursrasyākṣaṇayā rajjuḥ pārśvamānī, tiryagmānī,
cha yatpṛthagbhūte kurutastadubhayāṅ karoti.
>A rope stretched along the length of the diagonal produces an area which the vertical and horizontal sides make together.[6]
Pyhtagorian triplets are also found in this text.
>Name some of these non-existent text. I'll wait.
Aryabata in his work the Aryabhatiya in the 5th cen had calculated the circumference of the earth within 0.2%, an accuracy that would not be surpassed in Europe till the 14th cen. If Western civilization is a continuation of Greek civ then Eratosthenes' calculation accurate to 10% should have been improved upon.

What's much more important than textual, is non-textual evidence. The Greek calendar was far less accurate than Egyptian and Indian calendars. The Greek numeral system was incapable of high level calculations since it wasn't a place value system. Seriously try multiplying 14 times 32 in Roman (or Greek if you know them) numerals without converting to the decimal system. It will take the better part of your day.

So now, Eratosthenes and Pythagoras are lionized all over the world for being unmatched scholars. While Baudhayana and Aryabhata are known by only history nerds even within their home countries. The Elements and Principa Mathematica is held up as the apex of science while Egyptian and Indian works are relegated to niche interests.

If science and the history of science are objective, empirical fields that are beyond the confines of ethnicity let them be such. That's all people who are asking for the decolonization of science mean.

Should I study economics guys??

>>2936660
uh..nigger... have you heard of Erasthoenes? What is this shit about Europe only figuring out in the 4th century?

>>2936660
http://www.ancient.eu/alexandria/

>Alexandria is a port city on the Mediterranean Sea in northern Egypt founded in 331 BCE by Alexander the Great.
>in NORTHERN EGYPT
Nigger your geography is as bad as your history.

>>2937020
Is everyone on here incapable of reading more than a few words? Eratosthenes is mentioned twice in my post. Once right after the 14th c claim (which is also very generous since even Newton was off by 25% in his first attempt and Columbus by 40%). The point is to claim Eratosthenes work as European when Europe didn't reach that conclusion till almost 2000 years later is a prime example of Eurocentrism. Eratosthenes conducted his work in Egypt. The same Egypt that was the source of a lot of the Greek's philosophical and scientific knowledge. To claim his work as European/Western is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.
>>2937030
What's your point? Are you implying I don't know where on a map Alexandria is located? It was a Greek city. In Egypt or next to it is semantic. Or a matter of perspective at the worst. It was a city with a great amount of interaction and exchange of ideas with the culture of Egypt,which was my point.


Funny how two posts trying to defend science being European, a false history manufactured by racist historians, called the opponent to this, a nigger.

>>2937104
Nigger YOU ARE FUCKING DUMB. Greeks didn't get their knowledge from Egypt. Anything to do with Alexandria is Greek. It doesn't matter that Alexandria physically wasn't in Europe. It was a GREEK CITY for heavens sake. GREEKS MADE IT AND LIVED THERE. Attributing Eratosthenes or Euclid to being Egyptians because they physically lived in Egypt is as ignorant as attribution the declaration of independence to redskins because it was signed in North America. Can you understand that Egypt was ruled by a Greek dynasty for centuries? Can you understand that many Greeks lived in Asia and North Africa? Can you admit that if a Greek person lives in Egypt and discovers something that's still a fucking Greek discovery?

>>2937104
>Are you implying I don't know where on a map Alexandria is located?
It's clear you don't. You've probably never looked at a world map in your life.

>>2937115
Your post is the perfect example of the retconning and mental gymnastics employed by Western historians that I'm talking about. Knowledge is only considered to be really discovered when a European learns it (usually under the guise of formalism which no one in this thread has been able to demonstrate the utility of). Egyptians knew Pythagorean triplets 2000-2500 years before Pythagoras. The Sulbasurtas talk exactly of Pythagoras' theorem centuries before him yet it's attributed to the politically correct Greek man.

I don't want to go back to Euclid since I've already written a lot about him. Eratosthenes was bilingual and Alexandria was a collection of Greek and Egyptian knowledge. The Egyptian calendar, far more accurate than the Greek showed their adeptness in matters of astronomy and geography. Yet it is considered beyond any debate that the circumference of the earth was a Greek discovery with nothing to do with the Egyptians. Further, Europe had so completely forgotten this that Isaac goddamned Newton got his radius calculations wrong by 25% the first time he attempted them. Yet again, European civ and science is considered a continuation of Greek. The same Greeks who had a lot of exchange of knowledge with Egyptian, middle eastern and Indian civilization and none with the majority of Europe.

Anyway I think I've written more than 5000 words on this topic ITT so beyond this it's up to you to take it or leave it. Research if you feel like it, disregard if you feel you're already right or would rather not investigate this. I'm tired.

>>2935936
>words have meaning
How are you even supposed to debunk this. It just shows the level of intelligence involved with these idiots

>>2937210
>complains of mental gymnastics and retconning
>has no actual evidence beyond "fuck whitey" to support his bullshit

>>2926040
The fuck is this lol

>>2925216
>studying some SJW bullshit
>not studying based linguistics

I got a BA in linguistics and now I have a plum gig teaching English in Asia. Every year I go to a new country and have another set of awesome adventures. Linguistics was the way to go.

>>2935241
>Alexandria was Greek but next to Egypt. Egypt is where a lot of Greek scholars went for their education.

And who do you think was teaching them in Alexandria? Pure native Egyptians? You know that ancient Egypt wasn't a nation state, that it was ruled by a Ptolemaic dynasty and it were Greeks who founded and settled Alexandria, right? It was a Greek colony, like many others.

I guess that if these Greeks went to Chersonesus instead of Alexandria you would argue that their education was actually Scythian, not Greek.

>>2937210
>Eratosthenes and Pythagoras are lionized all over the world for being unmatched scholars. While Baudhayana and Aryabhata are known by only history nerds even within their home countries.

If Eratosthenes and Pythagoras are indeed
>lionized
then only by the same math nerds, who also know about your precious Indian and Arab mathematicians. Non-nerds don't even know these names, regardless if they live in the West or in the East. Unless you actually complaining that an average European/American guy "heard something" about Pythagoras, but is ignorant about Indian/Arab mathematicians. Would you also be equally concerned if an Indian/Arab was ignorant about Pythagoras?
Oh, wait, i know - they are entitled to such ignorance because the "ebul whyatt man" has "colonized science", amirite?

>It's not anti-white

It is. I don't know if it was the intent of the whole thing from the beginning, or the narrative was just hijacked along the way from the actual scientists by the SJWs. But the current message is clearly anti-white. They don't speak about Arab/Chinese or other colonization attempts, do they? The only "colonization" you can speak about is white, by default.

>>2937210
>Knowledge is only considered to be really discovered when a European learns it

Systematization and spreading of scientific knowledge around the world was certainly done by the West. If it's called colonization of science now then i'm ok with that. So what if there was some NON-WHITE super-genius polymath, who was born and lived in ancient China/India/Mesopotamia etc., and who was ahead of all the Western scientists combined in knowledge - if his works were destroyed or lost, his contribution to modern science equals zero.

>>2938183
>If Eratosthenes and Pythagoras are indeed
>>lionized
>then only by the same math nerds, who also know about your precious Indian and Arab mathematicians. Non-nerds don't even know these names, regardless if they live in the West or in the East. Unless you actually complaining that an average European/American guy "heard something" about Pythagoras, but is ignorant about Indian/Arab mathematicians. Would you also be equally concerned if an Indian/Arab was ignorant about Pythagoras?
Hit the nail on the head.

>>2938235
>If it's called colonization of science now then i'm ok with that. So what if there was some NON-WHITE super-genius polymath, who was born and lived in ancient China/India/Mesopotamia etc., and who was ahead of all the Western scientists combined in knowledge - if his works were destroyed or lost, his contribution to modern science equals zero.
Good point. To a certain extent centrism is logical. And this would apply to anyone. Blacks, Whites, Yellows, browns, reds, oranges.

>>2925250
It's not even that. Most archaeologists are just sifting dirt for pot shards and looking at ground discolourations.