How and why did Switzerland become a Republic when the rest of

>>2911854
No idea but I can tell you that Switzerland's success (along with denmark, norway, etc...) is because of their refusal to integrate with the globalist vision of one large european union

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>>2911884
>along with denmark
ohayo gozaimasu /pol/

>>2911884
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>2911854

The geographic location of Switzerland makes it very defensible.

>>2911854
It peasant revolts but more so it was because they live in the mountains and are stupid easy to defend.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Morgarten

>>2911918
That should be a good thing for nobles then.

>>2911854
You're forgetting the republics in Italy.

Besides, they didn't kill off the gentry and nobility, the latter just didn't call the shots.

>>2911934
>You're forgetting the republics in Italy.
Milan turned feudal at the time and became the Duchy of Milan.

>>2911925
>the mountains and are stupid easy to defend
So is the rest of the Alps, like Austria, and they didn't turn into a republic

>>2911926
Why? Any city can train up pikemen and crossbowmen, guard a mountain pass and say "lol fuk u".

>>2911942
True enough but you asked about places becoming republics, not the ones reverting back.

>>2911947
Na man, I asked how they managed to do that when everybody else was going full feudalism.

>>2911945
Yes, but only Swiss cities did, why them and not other mountain peoples? theres tons of mountains in Europe.

>>2911953
They were never assigned a noble as ruler but ruled by the emperor immediately. This allowed them to form their own communal government in a way they saw fit.

The city or communal league eventually deposed their imperial leader.

>>2911854
>when the rest of Europe became feudal?
Most of Italy and half of Germany were going republican at the same time dude.

>>2911953
The climate is a bit different. They straddled wealthy Italy and densely populated France and HRE with tributaries to the Rhine, Rhone and Danube. They possess a flatter agriculturally rich region protected by the Alps and Jura mountain ranges.

>>2912038
Name examples then for territories that went republican in the late 13th and 14th century.

>>2912042
What makes them different from Bavaria, Tyrolia, Carinthia etc.? Same people, same mountains, even same Habsburgs.

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>>2911854
The villages, towns, cantons, whatever you want to call them were so isolated that having large scale feudal societies would burden them more than organize them. As neighboring empires and states came to subjugate them, these small populations banded together based on their population's willingness to fight. If they want to go, they went. If the war was unpopular, then only volunteers went to join the other warring parties.

There were nobles still. Rich people do what rich people do. They were the major candidates during elections, swayed votes, and sometimes kept oligarchies in a few Swiss regions.

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>>2912076

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>>2912080

>>2911854
>what is Italy for £20

>>2912080
>>2912081
Those aren't lords but just standard bearers

>>2912105
Something that did not exist at the time and didn't exist for another 600 years?

>>2912110
Okay what happened to the iron kingdom of Lombardy

>>2912076
>isolated
You think the City of Zurich or Bern where isolated at the time?

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>>2911891
>>2911888

t. sjws that cant handle a community that isnt a personal safe space

>>2912111
Many things. What is your point? Italy was one happy republic at the time? Not really, they had some city states but just at that time Nobles took over the republics, the rest was either papal state or feudal southern Italy.
Now think again.

>>2912121
It is not about safe space, it is about stupid people. People that are so stupid that they think Denmark is not in the EU. People that are so stupid that they think they need to start a political discussion about current events in a history thread. Those fucking idiots really need to get removed from the gene pool.

>>2912111
>iron kingdom of Lombardy
something that happened at least 500 years before the Swiss?

>>2912076
this desu

>what is venice

>>2912363
A city in Italy?

>>2912372
>what was the Serenissima Repubblica di Venezia
Happy now?

>>2912379
Still a city in Italy. How is that an answer to the OP post?
Oh, you came here to tell us that there was Republic a few 100km away. Thats great, thanks very much.

>>2912397
>serenissima repubblica
>a city
Huh?
>How is that an answer to the OP post?
The answer to a part of the OP question is that the Swiss weren't the only ones that didn't ge feudalized in Europe

>>2912425
Venice was a republic from since the migration period and was never a member of the HRE. Switzerland emerged at the end of the 13th century from some form of rebellion inside the HRE.
Venice is simply irrelevant to the question.

>>2912433
Actually somethink like 99% of the mainland venedian territory was rightful imperial clay.

Thats why the whole League of Cambrai BS started

>>2912464
That still doesn't make it relevant to the OP.

>>2912464
>legitimately conquered
>rightful clay
If conquest doesn't count, then that's rightfuly Euganean clay.

>>2912464
>Thats why the whole League of Cambrai BS started
A conflict between Venice and the Pope started because of imperial land? No nigga, the idiotic imperial clay issue (>implying it wasn't just a vile land grab) came at the end of the conflict, it wasn't why it started.

>>2912697
Ravenna was stolen something like a hundred years before the League of Cambray was signed.
It was mostly a league for the HRE and the French to get their rightfull land back, with the french clay as imperial investiture

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>>2912116
It was a region that was strongly independent of much larger entities around them. It was not totally isolated but even large cities like Bern were not a huge destination during the 15th century

>>2912107
Noted. At least they didn't skip leg day

Didn't Geneva turn into a Calvinist theocracy or something?

>>2912776
During the 15th century, 70% of the trade and travel from and to Italy was via Switzerland. Control of that trade route was one of the major sources of conflict. They might have been isolated before the 12th century and the opening of the Gotthard pass, but after that they had one of the biggest trade routes of the time.

>>2912850
Yep, Zurich and to a degree Bern also turned into protestant semi theocratic city states.
>fun strictly verboten

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>>2912121
kys

>>2911926
It destroys a lot of their value in the first place. It's a hard sales pitch for your protection racket in a place where grandma can fend off a thousand men.

>>2913032
Theres dozens of mountain ranges all over Europe, yet this was the only instance somone said no thanks to the protection racket.

>>2913046
The pyrenees had some pretty independent people too.

>>2913497
Did the managed to create a state of some sort?

>>2912121
They're questioning you because what you're saying has literally nothing to do with what the thread is asking, and don't know shit about the current situation anyways nig

>>2913511
Navarra, Andorra, Foix, the Cathars

>>2913642
But thats a Kingdom, not a republic.

>>2913666
Never claimed they did. I just said they were independent people.

Andorra was ruled by some kind of parliament btw

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>>2911854
They stole all the pikes obviously.

>>2912129
absolute legend hahah

>>2914187
I think stealing has always been a major motivation for the Swiss, they are a thieving breed.

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>>2914561
no shit fucking theives the lot, first land then wome, then pikes, now its gold.

>>2914700
sounds like they smart

>>2911854
You shouldn't project modern ideas into medieval Switzerland. Switzerland had local rulers and serfs just like any other European country at the time.

>>2911884
>Switzerland's success
Switzerland was for the majority of its history exceedingly poor. Switzerland's success story began in the 20th century and it was only possible because it is surrounded by larger, non-hostile countries that provide safety, stability and prosperity from which the banking nation can profit. If there were no European Union in the sense of European powers working together and not fucking Europe all the time, Switzerland would be in a much worse position.

>>2915041
Its not 'smart' to steal shit and hoard it. What goes around comes around.

>>2911854

primarily two reasons

firstly its in the fucking alps

secondly the swiss were crazy warlike poeple and no one could get them to serve

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>>2915075
>no one could get them to serve
>Swiss Mercenaries

>>2915051
>Switzerland had local rulers.
Name one

>>2915144
Well, they payed them to do that.

>>2915051
>Switzerland was for the majority of its history exceedingly poor.
This is simply not true, Switzerland was average, some regions even where rich.

>>2916141
There was that guy who tried to execute all dogs in zurich

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>>2912060
You not only need choke points but the population to defend it.

Switzerland has a plateau encapsulated by the Alps, Juras mountains and lakes Geneva and Constance allowing a more sizeable population.

Tyrolia is basically all mountains with only tributaries to the Danube. While defensible it had a lower population and Habsburgs used their diplomatic savvy to influence it.

Bavarian alps were right next to flatter Germanic lands.

Carinthia's flat lands are exposed.

>>2911854
Swiss were Imperial citizens but vassals of only the emperor for most of their cultural beginning
Then technology advanced so the alps were far more prosperous so had dukes but by this time you had the canton system so they would fight together

>>2916141
Up to the late middle ages Switzerland was ruled by various competing Houses (Habsburg, Kyburg, Zähring, Froburg, ...) in a completely normal and feudal manner, so it's not a matter of Switzerland "becoming" republican while everyone else "became" feudal at the same time.

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>>2917556
But thats wrong. Switzerland emancipated itself from exactly those lords during the 13th and 14th and 15th century.
The Habsburg for example where ousted from their former Swiss territories in a series of bloody wars.
Pic related, the Habsburg itself, the ancestral seat of House Habsburg, conquered by the Swiss in 1405

>>2917139
Waldmann? He was elected mayor of a city, and he ended on the scaffold with his head between his feet.

>>2917556
>Habsburg
The Swiss fought those guys from 1315-1499, the even fought them after they became Emperor
>Kyburg
Died out 1263, before Switzerland was founded
>Zähring
Died out 1218, before Switzerland was founded
>Froburg
no such thing

>>2917822
>But thats wrong. Switzerland emancipated itself from exactly those lords during the 13th and 14th and 15th century.
If you had read more attentively you would have noticed that I said "up to the late middle ages".

>>2917859
>The Swiss fought those guys from 1315-1499
See what I said above regarding the late middle ages. The idea that Switzerland was 'progressive' and 'republican' while everyone else was stuck in feudal hell is ridiculous. Switzerland was feudal at the same time when everyone else was feudal.

>Froburg
no such thing

>The House of Frohburg (also Froburg) was a noble family in medieval Switzerland, with possessions in what is now the canton of Solothurn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Frohburg

>>2917964
>Switzerland was feudal at the same time when everyone else was feudal.
Yes, and they rebelled against those feudal lords and became a republic while everyone else kept on being feudal.

>>2918068
The 'golden age' of the feudal period were the high middle ages, and Switzerland was feudal at that time. By the time of the late middle ages it was by no means uncommon for cities and their vicinity to follow a different model. Also, it should be considered that this was mostly about Imperial immediacy rather than some modern egalitarian ideas of equality. The cities (and Swiss cities were by no means unique in that regard) wanted to maintain their privileges.

>>2917964
1315-1499 is late middle ages. And yes, Switzerland once had noble lords, but then they rebelled against those lords and became non feudal and quasi independent. Thats not exactly typical behavior for the time.

>>2918101
Yet, they where the only ones succeeding at such an endeavor at the time. Plus Switzerland was not only cities but also rural cantons that also managed to break free from their noble lords. Another thing that was really unusual.

>>2918109
Italian city states did it much earlier and you also had cities in what is what is nowadays Germany that had elected councils, Imperial immediacy, etc.

>>2918121
>Plus Switzerland was not only cities but also rural cantons that also managed to break free from their noble lords.
Rural communities in Frisia and Denmark come to mind. Not all of them were successful but arguably Switzerland was a hell lot easier to defend. Not to mention that you had cities in what's nowadays Germany get in trouble with feudal lords (e.g. Prince-Bishops) all the time at that time.

>>2918124
Italian city states did not rebel but where often there since the time of Charlemagne, and no German city rebelled against the Habsburg emperors and took their turf.
Why do you try so hard to deny that the Swiss revolted and turned away from the feudal system?

Uri and Schwyz where not some cities, those guys where cow herders that suddenly started to beat the crap out of the Archdukes of Austria.

>>2918152
Again, Switzerland managed to get independent from the HRE in 1499, albeit de jure this was only 1648.

So there is some guys during the 14th century that turn away from Empire, Emperor, Noble lords, feudal order and all that and instead start a federation of independent mini nations. To complete this they take the best turf of the mightiest nobles at the time, wreck their armies, kill a couple dukes, steal their gold and get away with it.

>>2918124
>Italian city states
Where reverting back to feudalism at the time, 1395 Milan became a duchy.

>>2918158
>no German city rebelled against the Habsburg emperors and took their turf
The German cities had imperial immediacy. Why would they rebel? The Swiss on the other hand were about to have their rights taken from them which led them to rebel.

>Why do you try so hard to deny that the Swiss revolted and turned away from the feudal system?
Because that distorts the historical reality and projects modern egalitarian ideas into it. The Swiss revolt was not led by poor rural peasants that had egalitarian ideas and wanted to get back at their 'betters' but by city states that had the privilege of imperial immediacy and didn't want Habsburgs (with an interest in the well-being of the House of Habsburg rather than the well-being of the whole Empire) meddling in their affairs.

>Uri and Schwyz where not some cities, those guys where cow herders that suddenly started to beat the crap out of the Archdukes of Austria.
Again: the incentive came from the cities. They had something to lose here.

>>2918212
And yet they were republican before the Swiss. The point I'm making is that this isn't unique. Switzerland was merely blessed with an easily defensible geography - that's why they got away with it. Not to mention that the point remains that plenty of city states had elected councils, imperial immediacy, etc. - and all of it without fighting. Chances are had the House of Habsburg tried it through diplomacy rather than a foolish military attempt they would have been more successful and maintained their influence over Switzerland.

>>2918225
>The Swiss revolt was not led by poor rural peasants that had egalitarian ideas and wanted to get back at their 'betters' but by city states
The Swiss revolt started with the battle of Morgarten 1315, lead exactly by those rural peasants not willing to bow their necks. The first city state joined 15 years after the first battle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Morgarten

>>2918225
>Again: the incentive came from the cities. They had something to lose here.
Again, the cities where not even founding members of the Swiss confederation and joined decades after the show got rolling.

>>2918242
Being Republican isn't unique. Turning republican during the late medieval is what is unique.
The house of Habsburg tried it with half a dozen wars against Switzerland and only turned to diplomacy because they kept getting totally rekt by the Swiss

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>>2918254
Being diplomatic is advised when you got such kill/death ratios

>>2918249
You're missing the greater picture there. It was by no means just about Swiss peasants not wanting to bow - in particular because they had to bow to the Emperor already and were perfectly fine with it and would have been fine with it longer. They weren't fine with bowing to someone in-between.

>Again, the cities where not even founding members of the Swiss confederation and joined decades after the show got rolling.
And yet they were one of the driving forces. Also, it was foreign interests that played a role of course.

>>2918254
>Turning republican during the late medieval is what is unique.
No, it's not, because they had their Imperial immediacy at that point already and they were mad about it being taken from them. Also, they weren't the only ones who had this. One might argue that the Swiss revolt was unique in regard to how successful it was at enforcing their rights militarily up the point of breaking away completely - but this was not about some kind of modern egalitarian ideal but about maintaining privileges they already had - and which other places had too.

>>2918109
>>2918121
>>2918180
The swiss did not do away with their Noble lords, they just took power from the upper rung of the nobility. Who do you think held power in all those canton councils? The local big-shot landowners did. Who the fuck do you think the local big-shot landowners were? Well they were pretty much nobility.

In Bern you had the Erlachs for Example, and those would be around long after 1600. The nobility did not differ so much from the nobility in the Netherlands. Where the Patrician class was made up of equal parts nobility and freeman.

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>>2918299
>And yet they were one of the driving forces.
Now please bring a source for once. because pic related shows clearly that
-not a single town with 2000 or more inhabitants
-early Switzerland was completely rural
-and they where slugging it out with big bad Austria alone.

If rebelling against the feudal system and building your own state was so common at the time, bring examples. HRE, 14th & 15th centuries. Rest of feudal Europe is also fine.

>>2918316
>Who do you think held power in all those canton councils? The local big-shot landowners did. Who the fuck do you think the local big-shot landowners were? Well they were pretty much nobility.
The lists who held power is pretty detailed int Switzerland. Noblemen where a small minority and the power was in the hand of low born people. Rich low born people, but still low born.

This is more true for the rural cantons, where politics was decided in general assembly, every free born man able to hold a sword had equal rights. This system is still honored in some Swiss cantons.

You got to do some power sharing when you completely rely on militia troops. Serfs don't fight, free man do.

>>2918348
>The lists who held power is pretty detailed int Switzerland.
Can you provide them? I can read a bit of german and french but I would prefer an English translation if there is one (Dutch would be best but that would be a very slim chance).

>>2918330
The Netherlands did it in 1568, it just after the end of what people would classify as medieval, but it shares a lot of similarities

>>2918394
Name the Canton and the time frame then please.
Also, last time I checked the Netherlands where a Monarchy.

>>2918330
>-and they where slugging it out with big bad Austria alone.
Switzerland is easy to defend and Austria has always been shit at war.

>>2918330
>>2918330
Flanders tried it a bunch, Novgorod was a republic, so were a lot of Italian cities. Lucca for example did not rebel directly but managed it the diplomatic way. Cospaia declared itself independent when the pope was busy doing something else so he couldn't intervene. Florence rebelled against Henry of Bavaria in the 11th century.

Amalfi kicked out it's lombard lords before 900 and became a republic.

There's also the Frisians who managed to stave of multiple invasions every century (did my thesis on the invasion of 1396 by the Hollanders) and stay indipendent untill 1550 or something.

>>2918416
>Name the Canton and the time frame then please.
Uri 1400-1500
Glaurus same period
(a friend of mine lives in Zurich and I hiked a lot in both Uri and Glaurus, that's why I picked those).
>Also, last time I checked the Netherlands where a Monarchy.
Yes, after 1815 we became a kingdom, but how is that relevant for this discussion? Before that we were a republic.

>>2918348
The difference between a nobleman and a commoner is actually more fluid than people might believe. Serfs existed in Switzerland too, and what is a rich land owner who has serfs tending his fields for him if not a small-scale feudal lord?

>>2918437
>Florence
turned into the Grand Duchy of Tuscany just at the time. I know about Lombard city states, but they are not related as they develop 600 years prior and most are gone by the time Switzerland shows up.
So the Swiss are pretty much the only ones that manage to shake of the feudal order at the time.

>>2918449
>So the Swiss are pretty much the only ones that manage to shake of the feudal order at the time.
Again: they did not "shake the order". They wanted to maintain privileges that had been granted to them earlier. They did NOT suddenly decide that they wanted to be a republic or that all people were the same or whatever modern egalitarian ideas one might envision. It was about maintaining the status quo.

Unique was not what they did - others tried that too, some successful, some weren't - but perhaps the scale of their military success. However, I'd argue that the unique geography of Switzerland has a lot to do with that.

>>2918437

These are all exceptions that prove the rule. In the histories of these republics it is noted that most of Europe was not republican. This is like saying that 9/11 didn't kill most of the people who didn't evacuate the twin towers by pointing out several people who somehow survived, while ignoring that the vast majority did indeed die.

>>2918449
Grand duchy of Tuscany started in the 1550's. Florence was still independent when the swiss started rebelling and would be for more then two centuries.

Also don't forget the United Dutch Provinces.

>>2918460
Well I know they are exceptions. The whole point was to provide other examples of republics revolting against high-nobility. Not prove that all of Europe was republican, that would be daft.

Please don't try to insert your fat opinion into a debate you don't follow

>>2918472

>when ur dick so big it fills both holes at once

Whelp, off to some other thread, I tried.

>>2918459
>start as normal feudal subjectsa to noble lords
>rebel, kick out nobles, take their turf and privileges, distribute it amongst your people
>end up as independent republic

Explain me again where they did not shake things?
P.S. you are the only guy talking about egalitarian visions

>>2918472
>The whole point was to provide other examples of republics revolting against high-nobility
Everybody knows that, nobody denies that. It just di not happen at the time of the Swiss but centuries earlier or later, it was not related to the swiss movement for independence in any way and unlike the Swiss they did not succeed.

Which makes the Swiss pretty special.

>>2918490
The Dutch succeeded.

>>2918502
In becoming a monarchy.

>>2918505
The stadtholder was far more restricted than most monarchs in Europe, this is why William III was willing to do away with so many powers of the British monarchy

>>2918482
>take turf and privileges and give it to your people
The pleb in Milan lived the same life whether it was a duchy or ambrosian republic
The burgher privilege was largely the same although mayors now had a larger role to play in politicos

>>2918394
The Netherlands were provinces of the Low Countries which had been united under Charles V administration and nominated a new person as their governor and had de facto independence from the HRE emperor I.E. a Hapsburgs they just warred

>>2918505
How is the dutch republic a monarchy?

>>2918526
Wea re not talking about Milan, and Swiss power structures changed quite a bit. Also having 60% of your male population under weapons makes for quite an empowered pleb.

>>2915051
>switzerland
>not successful
>home of renown artisans, mathematicians like Euler and architects
>not successful

hmmmmm...

>>2912121
Historically, Switzerland has been a great safe space.

>>2918580
true, guess thats why they flipped their shit so hard every time someone invaded.

>>2912776
>building a wall specifically around few farms and trees
ingenious

>>2918570
>one mathematician and a half dozen architects
yeah lets forget the major cultural and scientific powerhouses along it.

>>2918640
They had more than their fair share of good people given the small total population. More importantly, Switzerland wasn't poor. General living standard was comparatively good for the time and the Swiss made good money with trade and commerce.

>>2918640
I just named one fo the most relevant ones but they produced a shit ton of them considering their small size:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Swiss_mathematicians

>>2918710
>total population matters not size of middleclass

>>2918719
>population around 400K, or a bit larger than Paris at the time
must have been a fuckhuge middle class then.

>>2918743
Middle class are the main inventors and philosophers

>>2918793
Thats cool bub.

>>2918635
>they flipped their shit so hard every time someone invaded
After the middle ages, they were only invaded by Napoleon.
And they surrendered.

>>2918840
swiss utterly btfo.

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>>2918158
>Italian city states did not rebel

>>2918840
After the middle ages Switzerland was a symbiotic pet state to France for 250 years. Likely the best time Switzerland ever had.

But they did they did kill Charles the Bold and Leo III. Maximilian I got away lightly, they just killed his entire army. So the save space theory is still valid. Maybe they where just autistic and no one noticed yet.

>>2912121
Implying /pol/ isn't a safe space for moron

>>2918158
There is literally a whole mission on Age of Empires 2 about the Lombard League.

And you get to destroy Venice optionally.

>>2918482
>start as normal feudal subjectsa to noble lords
>rebel, kick out nobles, take their turf and privileges, distribute it amongst your people
They already had imperial immediacy. They could elect people in charge, having only to answer to the Emperor directly - just like many other places. The Habsburgs wanted to change that, putting them on tighter leash. That's what they didn't want.

>>2920060
Lucerne had imperial immediacy? Thats news.

>>2918870
>a pet state
The fuck you on, the emperor still had to protect them but couldn't collect taxes

>>2920770
Wasn't that, Switzerland entered a symbiotic relationship with the Kingdom of France during the 16th century.

Switzerland was a problematic neighbor for France, their military power was every bit as impressive as their politics was unimpressive. Thee where over a dozen different cantons, with different particular interests, different alliances and dozens of officials an powerful individuals you could bribe.
Louis XI of France, called the Spider, took advantage of this and tricked Charles the bold into a war with Switzerland. He bribed Bern to stir up some ruckus on the Burgundy border, the following invasion triggered the Swiss, and Charles ended on a Swiss Halberd. Best part of it was that France took most of the territories of old Burgundy, while Bern and Switzerland took almost none.
30 years later the Swiss where still problematic for France, they could raise their army every year and used it like a tribe of mountain goons would do, sometimes they rented it out, sometimes they went on a spontaneous plundering spree in one of the neighboring countries, sometimes they sacked Milan, or Dijon, or did whatever erratic military shit you can do when have tons of power and no real plan.

Now Francis I becomes King of France in 1515 and he manages to beat the Swiss at Marignano in the war for Milan as his first act of business. just 2 years earlier his predecessor Louis XII got beaten badly whilst trying to do so.
Now this loss really makes things complicated in Switzerland, not so much from a military perspective, but from a political one, the 13 members cannot agree on a foreign policy anymore.
Francis takes advantage of this. He works a treaty with the Swiss and gives them 700'000 Ecu d'Or, thats several tons of pure gold. He also gives them a pension of 30K Ecu a year.
With this he buys Switzerland and the Swiss army. From now on, they fight for his political goals and do his bidding in Italy.

>>2920818
Now like every ruler of the time Louis had to pay for his armies, either by gold or by political concessions to guys who gave him the gold. And While France always had an abundance of good cavalry they have a lack of solid infantry. Now the Swiss have the finest infantry of the time and they work now for Francis.
The Swiss supply a full army, equipped, trained, disciplined, with all officers and NCO's, including Chaplain and Provost. Francis just needs to pay them, supply them and add in his on Cav and Arti.

Best of the deal, Francis manages to take out an erratic and potentially dangerous power completely of the field and make them a firm ally.

And this politic continued up until Napoleon. France gave the Swiss tons of money and culture and politic protection, and the Swiss did forgo any military actions or foreign policy of their own. Instead they sent the majority of their regiments to fight for France and hired the rest to pretty much every Kingdom in Europe.
During this time, France held an impressive influence in Switzerland, albeit they where smart enough never to meddle into internal Swiss squabbles.
The system started to slack somewhat with the reign of Louis XIV, as he was the first French king to build a truly French royal army.

But yes, Switzerland was Frances pet for a long time,

>>2911944
Austria holds more land than just the alps
Switzerland doesn't

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>>2920851

>>2920818
Just because they were a favoured client doesn't make them a symbiote
>uniorncially using problematic
Wew lad
They were de jure independent and just hired themselves out like the landsknects and hessians (some of whom were black)

>>2920998
Well, the French granted the Swiss also large trade privileges within northern Italy and France itself. Along with that came a mutual non aggression pact that did hold up for 300 years. Imagine, France not having war with a direct neighbor for 300 years and instead granting free trade. That alone makes it unusual.

On the other hand, Switzerland did not just rent out soldiers, the built a veritable industry on soldering. They built full regiments and capitulated them to other nations. After the French, the Dutch where the biggest employers.
The French kings, now having a reliable land force used this during the centuries to consolidate their powers, first in Italy and then during the reformation and civil wars in France.
the French drew up 20k-30k troops from the Swiss for most French wars, many French battles of the time have a majority of Swiss troops, and virtually all French armies up to the late 17th century have Swiss as the main line regiments. The Swiss where very loyal to the French monarchs, they never did a mutiny or tangle up in politics. religion was not an issue, as even protestant Swiss troops would not hesitate to kill Huguenots (which then ironically took refuge and settled in Switzerland).

The French in return sent diplomatic envoys, handed out titles of nobility and took a large influence on how things where run in Switzerland. The money they brought and the knowledge of the Huguenots transformed Switzerland.

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>>2920998
>some of whom were black

>>2920998
>some of whom were black
Say what?

Why do people think traditional republicanism is antagonistic to feudalism, anyway? If anything, it is antagonistic to absolute monarchy.

>>2923058
Republicanism also cuts the privileges of feudal lords.

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>>2912166
He was retarded to bring this up, but his earlier point of Italy being dull of republic's still stands. The difference is the Swiss had geography which helped/forced them to stay more cohesive than the Italian states, and they were less wealthy and less of a target for the HRE. Didn't they go for something like 200 years as a rogue state until the treaty of Westphalia gave them universal recognition finally?

>>2923593
They had a war in 1499 with the HRE and the Habsburg. Maximilian I was leading some sort of Habsburg revival as the HRE emperor, he tried to centralize the HRE and for this he raised a common tax and also set up a high court of justice to speak law over all HRE.

Both collided with the Swiss, they neither liked taxes nor foreign judges.
Also the Habsburg tried to expand into Grisons, a Swiss affiliated territory and consolidate their old powers there.
This sparked a full out war along the entire HRE Swiss border.

The Swiss won like all 7 major battles in a row and more or less massacred the entire Imperial army.

From then on until the treaty of Westphalia 1648, Switzerland was de facto independent but de jure still part of the HRE.

>>2923593
Butbeing a republic was never the point, doing a rebellion during the late medieval and getting away with it was.

>>2918580
It still is.

>>2911854
>Was this some successful peasant revolt?
Meh, not really, they had peseant revolts themselves, some more successful some less. Still not sure what the correct therm is for this. It is some sort of Revolution as they toppled the established order, but then it was also a Restoration because they went back to their old status quo.

Is old Switzerland sort of an AnCap state?