The oldest and biggest cities were.... Indoeuropean master race???

the goyim know

proofs?

>>2874196
No proof that they were indoeuropeans

>>2875354
do you have proof of your claims?

>>2875426
Onus of proof lies on you dumb idiot

>>2875434
you are the one making outrageous statements

Onus of proof lies on you redundant idiot

>>2874196
>Trypillian
>Indo-European
You may chose one and only one

>>2875544
It was in Ukraine, Ukraine is the homeland of the Aryan ubermensch

>>2874995
archaeological findings in the region indicate Kurgan (i.e. Yamna culture) settlements in the Cucuteni-Trypillian area, co-existing for some time with those of the Cucuteni-Trypillian

Cucuteni-Trypillian culture ended not violently, but as a matter of survival, converting their economy from agriculture to pastoralism, and becoming integrated into the Yamna culture

>>2875426
The burden of proof is on you faglord

>>2875530
No I'm not, you have to prove they were indo europeans

Trypillian culture goes mainstream, what a time to live.

>>2875580
>>2875578
>>2875354
>>2875434
The tatar shills have been located, lock him up boys.

>>2875588
Romanian nationalism is going to be at an all-time high.

>>2874196
The FIRSTa civilization was Indoeuropean cucuteni, however when they went west they made a great massacre in the Danube which was inhabited by hairy cave like people and the Carpatian became known as a great cemetery, so it was impossible to build in that area, so no civilization flourished there, still today the legends of the vampires come from all those hairy people killed by Aryans.

Glad I could help.

>>2875610
romanians already have harappa to brag about.

>>2874196
Trypillian civilization dating to 6000 B.C.
Oxus civilization circa 2500 BC
Hittite civilization circa 1800 BC

non-IE are you even trying?

>>2876037
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebelivka_%28archaeological_site%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidanetske

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talianki_%28archaeological_site%29

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/btn_Archeology/DAnthonyBronzeAgeEn.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlements_of_the_Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillian_culture

WE

"Shut it all down"

We Wuz

We Wuz KaNgz

>>2875354
[citation needed]

>>2876037
hitties were IE, not sure having the most widespread language family is something to be proud of though

>>2875426
>>2879007
Kek. Brainlets detected. Are you seriously asking him to prove a negative?

>>2880254
[according to whom]

>>2880337
this

File: 256x305.jpg (69KB, 256x305px)

69KB, 256x305px

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/09/135616

Get fucked horsefucker. They were G2 mostly and a single V13.

File: fuck off we are full.jpg (67KB, 1489x106px)

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>>2880485
It was farmers heaven on earth, until PIE-niggers ruined it.

>>2880485
[non sequitur]

Don't get too excited.

>The reason that academicians have not designated the gigantic settlements of Cucuteni-Trypillian culture as "cities", is due to the lack of conclusive evidence for internal social differentiation or specialization.

[Khol, Philip L. (2002). "Archeological transformations: crossing the pastoral/agricultural bridge"]

However, there is some debate among scholars whether these settlements ought to be labeled as proto-cities.
[Videĭko, Mikhailo Yu. (2002)] [http://www.iananu.kiev.ua/privatl/pages/Widejko/txt/cities.html]

Note the word "some" in the quote.

There is no evidence for any kind of social contract within this settlement, which forms a society. I know a lot of people on this board desperately want to believe that "muh indo-european master race" built the first cities and societies, but you just don't have the evidence.

A "city" or "town" in history is not categorized as "X number of buildings", it's a lot more complex than that.

If you guys read books instead of shitposting you'd actually understand why the Sumerian city states of Mesopotamia are called "cities"

>>2880529
>If you guys read books instead of shitposting you'd actually understand why the Sumerian city states of Mesopotamia are called "cities"
It's great to see someone else here is actually reading books and papers instead of browsing wiki like OP did.
also
>Cucuteni
>cuc[k]

>>2880529
so you can have cities of the future where neets on basic income living in 100% automation and so you be sayin they aint cities n shit?

File: vlcsnap-2017-05-12-16h00m05s456.png (352KB, 480x482px)

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>>2880562
I wonder whether you are trying to be funny or smart. I know you fail at being either.

let's ignore the cultures that built it and answer the simple question:
why does it matter?
I mean of course we should know for the historical record but why should one get morally invested in this?

>>2880582
go read a book on retards, it will have you face on the cover

>>2880629
not him but I'm going to go ahead and request a safespace from your cringeworthy posts

>>2880529
>aliens discover NYC
>marvel at the civil engineering
>upon further inspection, they discover that most of the inhabitants were on welfare
>aliens downgrade the site to a settlement

>>2880639
back to your hugbox, samefag

File: Capture.png (31KB, 619x399px)

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>>2880666
Seriously though, if you made these posts unironically, suicide is your best option.

>>2880529
The Cucuteni were not Indoeuropean anyway.

>>2880619
Nope we need to rub it in all the Sumerboos who pretend the Iraqis now are the same Iraqis from zagros (Sumerian)when genitics say otherwise

>>2874196
They predate Indo-Europeans, but contributed heavily to their genetic makeup.

>>2880730
They are you stupid fucking retard, they've been the same since the Neolithic you retarded fucking subhuman fuck

this
>>2875684

Is probably the most deep and profound post made in this thread, stay classy /his/

>>2880702
>>2880639
>>2880582
>this butthurt for having your bullshit exposed
You should have intercourse with a meat grinder.

>>2880529
>no evidence for any kind of social contract within this settlement of 20,000 to 35,000 people

listen to yourself, this is fucking pathetic
scholars in a future better than ours laugh at you

>>2880485
g2 was also yamna

>>2880733
they predate and create IE, the yamna (their child) then lived with cucuteni for some time

cucteni then rejoin the yamna and become steppe niggers
see
>>2875576

>>2880619
People who haven't contributed anything good to society need to rely on the accomplishments of other people who lived thousands and thousands of years ago to feel some sense of pride in their pathetic lives.

>>2880735
t.ahmed

>>2880735
The evidence just isn't there but you can keep trying kiddo

>>2880751
>literal proof that im not samefagging
You are aware that you have to be 18 to post on this site?

>>2880773
>steppe niggers
I think you're conflating early steppe cultures with late steppe invaders.

The early steppe cultures helped to create civilizations of the Bronze Age, not destroy them.

>>2880783
your lineage is your development. you being a descendant of erectus have less cultural and hereditary development, which does not apply to higher beings who have inherited advanced capabilities.

>>2880803
the interplay has always existed. steppe nomads repeatedly invaded during the bronze age. this is actually how chariots and horses reached mesopotamia

>>2880803
>The early steppe cultures helped to create civilizations of the Bronze Age

Huuum... no.

no written language.

Semites screeching in
3
2
1....

1) There's evidence they were Indoeuros
2)They didn't have writing
3(They didn't have cities just really big villages
4)Fuck off poltard

>>2880814
>this is actually how chariots and horses reached mesopotamia
The mobility that this brough to the ancient peoples allowed them to create cohesive cultures, that is; this made the world a smaller place which brought about enhanced trade and communication between disparate peoples. This was a major step in making societies integrated.


>>2880816
Nice argument

>>2880828
>There's evidence they were Indoeuros
Wrong, they were not Indo-European.
>They didn't have writing
There's evidence they might have had a very basic writing system.
>cities just really big villages
you're an idiot
>Fuck off poltard
kys

File: arse.gif (469KB, 480x228px)

469KB, 480x228px

>>2880828
>They didn't have cities just really big villages

hahahahahaha, whadda retard

>>2880802
>unable to refute the expose of b.s spewed
>resorts to recycled and stale shitty pasta
this is where you rush to the bathroom and flush yourself

>>2880816
They introduced advanced bronzeworking concepts not only to China but the Near East, Egypt, and Western Europe as well.

Those societies were already Bronze age (except Western Europe to my knowledge) so anon is technically inaccurate, but their influence on those societies was wide ranging and significant.

>>2880828
>They didn't have cities just really big villages
girl, you havent seen nothin yet. you come over here and i'll show you a big city

>>2880856
>so anon is technically inaccurate,
Nope.

File: copper diffusion.jpg (152KB, 703x662px)

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>>2880856
>Advanced bronzeworking concepts

Try again, buddy, both copper and bronze were discovered in the Near East.

Now fuck off.

>with the earliest artefacts so far known coming from the Iranian plateau in the 5th millennium BCE.[7] It was only later that tin was used, becoming the major non-copper ingredient of bronze in the late 3rd millennium BC.[8]


B-b-but we wuz kaaaangz

>>2880839
being progenitors of yamna and later lived with yamna and rejoined yamna makes them IE

>>2880867
>Try again, buddy, both copper and bronze were discovered in the Near East.

I'm not him, but you're a fallacious retard, he never said they invented Bronze working. You've just exposed yourself for being a vapid no nothing retard.

>>2880847
Like I said I wasn't that guy you were arguing with. I was just letting you know that your cringey insults are best kept in your head as you finally off yourself

File: israel.jpg (775KB, 960x1283px)

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>>2880878
>They introduced advanced bronzeworking concepts not only to China but the Near East, Egypt, and Western Europe as well.


Learn to read you absolute retard, "advanced bronze working concepts", Bronze was discovered in the Near East, they didn't introduce anything, Near Easterners already mastered the lost wax technique for making bronze objects.

This baby is 3200 years old, like 1500 years older than any lost wax bronze object from Europe

>But we wuuuuz kangz

No, sorry baby, not on my watch, I know the history of my people unlike you who have to made it up, cheers.

>>2880892
doesnt get any cringer than that. urgently take your own advice for the betterment of this thread and mankind.

>>2880867
>copper and bronze were discovered

THAT IS NOT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT EDUCATE YOURSELF

INTRODUCING NEW BRONZEWORKING TECHNIQUES AND TECHNOLOGY =/= DISCOVERING BRONZE

BESIDES THE EARLIEST COPPER SMELTING SITES YET FOUND WERE ON A FUCKING MOUNTAIN IN GODDAMN SERBIA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze#History

>The earliest tin-alloy bronze dates to 4500 BCE in a Vinča culture site in Pločnik (Serbia).

MORON

>>2880912
>i know what you are, but what am i
Have you already run out of original, hilarious, and witty remarks to embarrass everyone with the misfortune of experiencing your autism first hand?

>>2880899
>>>/reddit/

>>2880915
SERBIAN NEOLITHIC AND CALCOLITHIC CULTURES WERE PRE INDOEUROPEAN YOU IGNORANT BABOON, YOU ARE A PATHETIC WEWUZZER, NECK YORUSELF, ALSO THE EARLIEST COPPER SMELTING SITES ARE IN THE NEAR EAST, NOT IN SERBIA:

https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_2/articles/development_metals.pdf

>>2880937
>SERBIAN NEOLITHIC AND CALCOLITHIC CULTURES WERE PRE INDOEUROPEAN

NO SHIT THAT IS WHY I NEVER SAID INDO EUROPEANS INVENTED BRONZE YOU VAPID CUNT

>THE EARLIEST COPPER SMELTING SITES ARE IN THE NEAR EAST, NOT IN SERBIA

this is how I know you're a brainlet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcolithic#Europe

>An archaeological site in Serbia contains the oldest securely dated evidence of coppermaking from 7,500 years ago.
>The find in June 2010 extends the known record of copper smelting by about 800 years

WOW YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN HOW SHOCKING

>>2880899
>I know the history of my people

WE

>>2880922
/his/ isnt for 14yr old shitlords like yourself looking to bait. its for serious discussion. if you want funny just look at yourself in the mirror while you are humping your dog.

>>2880970
>Serious discussion like what I'm doing
Nice one kid, but I prefer to talk with adults. Have fun trying to "insult" me with your visible autism

>>2880937
and Vinca-Trypillian are progenitors of IE

>>2880868

>>2880966
Good fucking lord, you brainless retard.

You said they were steppe cultures, I'll have you KNOW that Serbia isn't a Steppe you retarded faggot.

>muuuh wkipedia

Read the article I've posted you mouth breathing fuck up

>>2880989
no one is insulting you. you have done that to yourself by appearing on this t̶hr̶e̶a̶d̶ planet.

>>2881005
Not him, but the peoples of the Balkans moved into the steppes, bringing with them their skills et cetera.

>>2880989
>no more cringey comebacks
looks like you ran out of creative, original, hilarious witty, avantgarde, tour-dedorce edgy stalepasta

>>2881005
THE STEPPE CULTURES THAT INTRODUCED NOVEL BRONZEWORKING CONCEPTS AND CHARIOTS TO THE NEAR EAST AFTER 2000 BC WERE INDO EUROPEAN

SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH YOU STUPID FAGGOT AND STOP TRYING TO CONFLATE MY ORIGINAL STATEMENT WITH YOUR RETARDED ETHNOAUTISM

File: 1479237425568.jpg (90KB, 951x840px)

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this thread

>>2881012
>>2881018
ignore the butthurt mongoloid troll.

I'm not going to read through the entire thread which i'm sure is filled with esoteric nationalist pseudoscience but I'll try to explain the misconception here.

The Proto-Indo-Europeans were nomadic pastoralists (they may have engaged in agriculture at times but it was not the focus of their economy). They were definitely not an urban culture. We know this from reliable linguistic evidence.

We do not know what language the people of Cucuteni-Tripolye spoke but it was probably not indo-european. The huge urban agglomerations you are talking about are not a sign of a high civilization but rather point to a state of crisis. Dramatic changes in environmental conditions and/or wars/raids by steppe people caused people to seek the security of larger communities. these mega-settlements eventually became unsustainable and the population centers collapsed within a short amount of time.

>>2881036
>talkin out the ass

>not a sign of a high civilization but rather point to a state of crisis
a prolonged crisis of urban city civilization from 6000 to 3500 BC civilization in Eastern Europe.

the rest of your post goes into the trash

>>2881036
Their culture lasted nearly 2000 years.

>>2881035

>2881012
>2881018 (You)
subhuman

>>2881018
Okay, you are definitely retarded

>THE STEPPE CULTURES THAT INTRODUCED NOVEL BRONZEWORKING CONCEPTS AND CHARIOTS TO THE NEAR EAST AFTER 2000 BC


You pathetic retard, bronze objects dating to the 4th millenium bc are found in the Near East, but you don't even read what I post, you retarded fuck.

>Chariots

Again, WRONG, Sumerian chariots date back to the 4th millenium bc too, long way before any contact with any Indoeuropean culture, kill yourself you retarded fuck.

Oh, please, tell me, what bronze working technique was introduced from Indoeuropeans to the Near East, enlighten me!

>>2881017
nope. just recharging with more crack.

>>2881056

> OX wagons
> Chariots

>>2881056
>>2880702
your eccentric posts and suicide obsession is worrisome. seek mental help

>>2881071
>suicide obsession

What?

>>2881056
>bronze objects dating to the 4th millenium bc are found in the Near East

I don't know why you think this refutes literally anything I've said. Wagons are not chariots. Stop embarrassing yourself and """your people""".

>>2881076
exactly. seek help.

>>2881005
>muuuh wkipedia

For further reference, this is how you know you've BTFO someone.

>>2881084
I know you're retarded, but apparently you also suffer from short term memory problems.

You've just stated they introduced new metalworking techniques to the Near East.

Name one, don't pretend that you didn't say that multiple times, you retarded fuck, name one metalworking technique that indoeuropeans introduced to the Near East, I'm waiting eagerly.

File: 1474083980596.gif (4MB, 700x298px)

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>>2881096
>name one metalworking technique that indoeuropeans introduced to the Near East, I'm waiting eagerly.
The Hittite empire, first to smelt iron for tools and artifacts.

>>2881096
you have embarrassed yourself in front of /his/. everyone sees you as a demented eccentric lunatic. please just end your misery and leave.

>>2874196
Looks like a Celtic Oppidum

File: 1483664869344.jpg (85KB, 843x402px)

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>>2881056
>Again, WRONG, Sumerian chariots date back to the 4th millenium bc too, long way before any contact with any Indoeuropean culture, kill yourself you retarded fuck.

Sorry but you're the one who's wrong. /pol/ told me the Sumerians were Indo-Europeans

>>2881184
>aurther keith
Yeah, don't believe anything /pol/ says.

>>2881112
Trigegred poltard samefag
>>2881107
The first iron tools were from Anatolia yes, but predate the Hittitie empire, they weren't brought to Anatolia from Hittities, they were developed by native Hattian peoples from Anatolia, once again, you prove yourself to be a complete idiot.

Also

>le umad image xD

Cringe.

>>2880899
>I know my history"
>"the achievements of the Sumerians can be attributed to camel fuckers in the desert"
You act like you're related to the Sumerians you aren't go back to Saudi Arabia you'll feel safe with your klan and you'll have some goats to fuck while you're at okay :^)
Now fuck off ayatollah

>>2881288
I'm Jewish+Italian but whatever, if it makes you sleep better at night

>>2881309
t.Wogheeb

>>2876037
>Indus Valley Civ.

>>2880752
In fairness a good number of proto-cities probably weren't occupied continually and only some of the structures inside them were occupied at one time

>>2880556
Way to miss the point.

I don't own any books about "Cucuteni–Trypillian culture", so obviously, i'm just going to look at the sources cited in the Wikipedia article.

My point was that retards like >>2880752
use wikipedia and /his/ exclusively and get confused when people point out the flaws in what they're saying. If they did some wider reading, or even just watched a decent documentary, then embarrassing shit like this would not happen.

>>2880752
Why not look up what a social contract actually is, and while you're at it look up what constitutes an organised society.

I'm Sorry, bucko, but until further evidence is discovered, the Sumerian city-states are objectively the first cities.

>>2874196
>Cucuteni-Tripolye culture
>Indo-European
pick one

>>2880867
>Try again, buddy, both copper and bronze were discovered in the Near East.
metallurgy originted in the Balkans

>>2881309
that was already obvious with your neurotic, psychotic, manipulative, deceitful, obsessive, sociopathic suicidal shitposting

>>2881826
>>2881504
>>2881427
>too dumb to read through the evidence already posted

>>2875665
fucking lol

all this butthurt (((>>2880735 >>2875354 >>2875434 >>2875578 >>2880485 >>2880529 >>2880556 >>2880582 >>2880639 >>2880702 >>2880878 >>2880892 >>2881193 >>2881056 >>2881504 >>2880899))

from just one envious hooknose /b/tard refugee (((>>2881309)))

>>2881504
>>2882704
>>2879986
>>2879982
>>2882728

Samefag

>>2874196
>find a few broken pots and sun baked bricks
>artists rendition: a huge city

File: Screenshot 2017-05-30 at 11.21.47.png (21KB, 433x204px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 433x204px

>>2882791
unfortunate

Cucuteni-Trypillia was related to every other Neolithic culture in Europe so ultimately it was of Anatolian origin. They spoke a language maybe related to Basque but that's not 100% certain.

You can't be IE without being IE or otherwise Finns and Estonians are IE too.

Indo-Europeans had just about no admixture from (Anatolian origin)Neolithics in the beginning. They got admixed with them during the Corded Ware phase when they exterminated the males and bred with their women.

>>2882773
>one (1) kike BTFO a whole thread of polturds

Guess kikes are the masterrace afterall.

>>2883307
see
>>2880868
>>2880773
>>2875576

>>2883334

It does not work like that. You either are linguistically IE or you aren't. They were biologically unrelated to Yamna anyway, certainly not progenitors. No one has ever modeled Yamna as more than a few percent Anatolian farmer, usually none.

>>2883307
>>2883344
> admixed with them during the Corded Ware
no, they were formed before that from Vinca-Trypillian
also, the Anatolian (G) is Georgian (Caucasus). Yamna being of partial Caucasus.
>>2883334

>>2883344
read about Cucuteni, they merged back with Yamna. Most later Yamna are actually Cucuteni and they spread to China.

It is therefore more likely that Dnieper-Donets marked the transition of indigenous R1a and/or I2a1b people to early agriculture, perhaps with an influx of Near Eastern farmers from 'Old Europe'. Mitochondrial DNA sequences from Dnieper-Donets culture showed clear similarities with those of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture in the Carpathians (haplogroups H, T and U3). Towards the end of the 5th millennium, an elite starts to develop with cattle, horses and copper used as status symbols.

http://www.academia.edu/5965973/Origins_and_history_of_Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA_

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_and_end_of_the_Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillian_culture

>>2883351

Yamna never had G you idiot. Regardless of tens of thousands of years old haplos, Anatolian farmers and the CHG caucasus people had huge genetic distances, much bigger than what you find today even between Swedes and Saudis. People really didn't mix much in the Middle East until a few thousand years ago.

Bottom line is that Yamna can't be modeled as being descended from Cucuteni-Trypillians. Only EHG and CHG.

>>2883359
The Cucuteni-Trypillian people mixed actively with the neighbouring Steppe cultures, resulting in the ethnogenesis of Yamna around 3500 BCE, at the onset of the Yamna period in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, the Cucuteni-Trypillian people started expanding east into the steppe, leaving their cities (the largest in the world at the time), and switching to an increasingly nomadic lifestyle. By the time the Proto-Indo-Europeans started, G2a-U1 men belonging to the L13 and L1264 subclades joined R1b and R1a tribes in the invasion of Europe, then of Central and South Asia.

File: rlerler.jpg (81KB, 420x887px)

81KB, 420x887px

Trypilians didn't have majority of their ancestry from Steppe you mongoloids.

>>2883408
For retardos.

BLUE = WHG
RED = EHG
ORANGE = Steppe
GREY = Farmer

>>2883387

Source: your ass

Yamna are always modeled as unrelated to Neolithic farmers and not a single one has had G2 so far.

>>2883408
Do you have more of this kind of thing?

>>2883387
>The Cucuteni-Trypillian people mixed actively with the neighbouring Steppe cultures, resulting in the ethnogenesis of Yamna around 3500 BCE

No, just no. Yamnaya formed on earlier steppe cultures Corded/Ware Yamnaya certainly formed from an earlier cultures like Sredny Stog/Khvalynsk/Dnieper Donets. There's isn't a lot of data so far from these cultures. But we know for certain they were mostly EHG's and in case of Dnieper Donets they had R1a.

>>2883444
http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/09/135616

>>2883387
>>2883358
>>2883351
you are right, just ignore the wopheeb /b/tard shitposter.

The homeland of R1b and PIE is presumed to be eastern Anatolia and/or the Caucasus. The Caucasus itself is a hotspot of haplogroup G. Therefore, a minority of Caucasian men belonging to haplogroup G integrated the R1b community that crossed the Caucasus and established themselves on the northern and eastern shores of the Black Sea sometime between 7,000 and 4,500 BCE.

PIE branches of G2a

It is only certain deeper subclades that would have made their way to the Pontic-Caspian Steppe and been absorbed by the Steppe herders before the Yamna period, and would have been redistributed around Europe and Asia by the Indo-European migrations.

G2a-L1264, which is found in the North Caucasus, in Baltic, Slavic and Germanic countries as well as in Central Asia and India. It was formed 8,000 years ago, but has a TMRCA of only 4,500 years. It would have propagated with haplogroup R1a (Proto-Balto-Slavic and Proto-Indo-Iranian branches).

G2a-L13 came into existence 10,500 years ago, but present carriers all descend from a common ancestors who lived only 5,000 years ago, which corresponds to the Yamna period. Despite its young age, it is found throughout Europe, including Russia, as well as in Central Asia, Iran, the Caucasus, and the Levant. This branch would have spread both with haplogroups R1a and R1b.

G2a-Z1816, which is found throughout Western and Central Europe, and especially in Germanic countries. Its coalescence age was estimated around 4,500 years by Yfull, but its L42 subclade was found in a Trypillian outlier individual who lived between 4,900 and 5,600 years ago. This branch would have been assimilated by Proto-Indo-Europeans through their progenitors, Trypillian people who moved to the Pontic Steppe and rejoined with Yamna tribes. It would later have spread around Germanic and Celtic countries alongside haplogroup R1b.

>>2883351
>the Anatolian (G) is Georgian (Caucasus). Yamna being of partial Caucasus.

Except that Sardinians have extremely high G2a frequencies even though they have next to 0 CHG ancestry

>>2883457
>The homeland of R1b and PIE is presumed to be eastern Anatolia and/or the Caucasus.

>Anatolian meme hypothesis

Bad shitpost.

>>2883457
thanks
this is really informative. the fact that Yamna is related to Cucuteni-Trypillian, Vinca, Dnieper–Donets is purposefully suppressed by semitic-supremicists as evidenced ITT jealous of accomplishments of others

>>2883476
Trypilians were majorly of Anatolian farmer stock, they had fuck all to do with the the forming of Yamnaya culture.

>>2883457
eloquently stated

>>2875580
This

>>2883457
this

>>2883457
this nigga knows his shit

>>2883457
>>>/pol/

>>2883457
just ignore the trolls who will deny all these facts you mentioned, but there is still more to the PIE-Trypillian story, as you have already mentioned.

I2a was found in Neolithic Spain and in Yamna culture of southern Russia and eastern Europe

Yamnaya_Bulgaria Bul4 I2a
Yamnaya_Kalmykia RISE552.SG I2a

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/09/135616
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309558475_Origins_and_history_of_Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA

>>2875580
This nigga knows his shit

>>2874196
Indo-Europeans came from the Eurasian Steppe.

Does this prove that steppes make the most intelligent humans?

>>2883725
Source: your /pol/lack ass

Yamna don't have I2a or G2 or J2. Yamna never had relations with Trypillian or Vinca. Yamna are from the steppe, Trypillian are mountain people.

see >>2881005

>>2874196
WE

>>2883806
>being this retarded

>>2881005
the urals, altais, carpathians, caucasus, balkans are also mountains, didnt bother the horse nomads. whats your point?

Good lord the we wuzing in this thread is worst than melanin warrior's threads.

>>2874196
They... were... not... CITIES!!!

Get this through your stupid ass head!!! they were not cities they were not cities they were NOT CITIES!!!

>>2883806

Yamna had some I2 as it is a very old and widespread haplogroup of eastern European origin like R1.
They primarily had R1 though, no doubt about that.

>>2874196
If the point was to get (You)'s and make us cringe you've succeeded admirably.

>>2883867
>urban planning complex and as populace as modern cities
>thats right g-goys, you heard me, those are goyim settlements

1 shekel have been added to your account
>>2880562 >>2880647

>>2883873
Are you serious?
Get fucked horsefucker. They were R1A not a single i2, G2, J2.

>>2883908

Yamna so far have been R1b and some I2. There probably were some R1a Yamna though.

Try to comprehend that I2 spread 25k years ago so of course it was on the western steppe natively.

>>2883725
>>2883457
so we get that they were PIE or even pre-PIE
so they had cities
but no one mentioned that they had writing vinca script

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinca_script

>>2883919
PIE also had J2 and G2

>>2883919
You are retarded to think Yamna was anything but r1b. They were just steppeniggz

>>2883924

Doubt it. Those aren't native to the steppe. PIE existed before the Caucasus admixture, Khvalynsk culture for example still had unmixed individuals among mixed ones.


>>2883932

No. You're clueless.

>>2883932
>You are retarded to think Yamna was anything but r1b.

Based retard bro.

It boggles my mind how some of these retards are unable to grasp simple genetic studies to propose such retarded ideas that Trypilians were IE or responsible for formation of Yamnaya.

>>2883899
Compare Uruq, Ur or Eridu to this settlement.

Notice any differences? Once again, for the final fucking time, it's not the population that constitutes what a city is in the historical sense.

Calling people Jews, putting cotton wool over your ears and basically writing fan-fiction for this long-gone culture, will not change anything.

This is just WE WUZ-ing.

The first cities were the ones that developed on the Euphrates and Tigris river valleys in Mesopotamia. This is an undeniable fact, no matter how much it upsets you. Whether or not you choose to accept this will show how mature you are.

File: 1280px-Ancient_ziggurat_at_Ali_Air_Base_Iraq_2005.jpg (204KB, 1280x960px)

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Can all the rational people in the thread please start posting the ruins of Sumerian CITIES until the retards go and LARP somewhere else?

File: 1024px-Stele_of_Vultures_detail_02.jpg (189KB, 1024x939px)

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Sumerian writing

File: Temple_of_Nebelivka_c_4000_B.C..jpg (108KB, 510x350px)

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>>2883924

File: part_of_Maydanets.jpg (111KB, 425x315px)

111KB, 425x315px

>>2884753

File: temple.jpg (82KB, 600x518px)

82KB, 600x518px

>>2884758

File: templ1.jpg (36KB, 600x338px)

36KB, 600x338px

>>2884766

File: City_Maydanetsk_c_6000_B.C..jpg (35KB, 400x263px)

35KB, 400x263px

>>2884773

File: vinca-script.jpg (52KB, 468x371px)

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>>2884777
their writing

>>2883408
I didn't say that, I said Balkan peoples moved up into the Steppe to form the Yamnaya with other peoples such as the R1As who migrated from India into the steppes.

File: trypwheels.jpg (15KB, 400x206px)

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>>2884784
writings, wheels, cities before civilization

>>2884788
r1a is most likely west eurasian

The idea of Indian origins of R1a1 also implies a migration of Indo-European genes and languages "Out of India" to Europe and east Asia. This is incompatible with the mainstream scholarly view, which states that the proto-Indo-Aryan language originated outside India.[40][19][41] And according to Sengupta et al. (2006), "[R1a1 and R2] could have actually arrived in southern India from a southwestern Asian source region multiple times.

>>2884788
ignore the shills. its obvious the balkan peoples were progenitors of (and later rejoined) yamna as detailed multiple times ITT

>>2884788

They moved into the steppe after the fucking ice age ended. Cucuteni-Trypillia and the other Balkan cultures were much later and didn't move to the steppe.

>>2884788
> I said Balkan peoples moved up into the Steppe to form the Yamnaya with other peoples such as the R1As who migrated from India into the steppes.

That makes no fucking sense you fucking retard, Balkans prior arrival of agriculture were overwhelmingly WHG's with a sprinkle of EHG's on top in same samples, after arrival of agriculture vast majority of their ancestry is from these farmers. Yamnayans had no fucking farmer ancestry, nor they had WHG ancestry.

>>2880529

The cities were had administrative, military and religious centres. The typical Trypillian hierarchy was one dominant "capital" with an urban population up to 15000 people and more than 100 Hectares, this capital was surrounded by suburbs typically in the size range 10-40 Hectares and villages in the range of 2-7 Hectares. The Capital controlled territories as far away as 20 km (12,5 mi) from the center. [18]

The latest research indicates that the cities had three level settlement hierarchy, with the possibility of state-level societies. An excavated mega-structures suggests the presence of public buildings for meetings or ceremonies.[1

and fuck off retard

>>2884879
>That makes no fucking sense
ofcourse it doesnt, your pea-size brain will never comprehend something as complex as European history

>>2884876
> Cucuteni-Trypillia and the other Balkan cultures were much later and didn't move to the steppe.
lel, another retard exposed

>>2884896

Can you give a link to the peer reviewed paper that you got your ideas from?

>>2884766
>>2884773
>Bosnian fucking pyramids
>>>/x/

>>2884896
>ofcourse it doesnt, your pea-size brain will never comprehend something as complex as European history

Nice argument there retard. Explain to us pea sized plebians how did these Balkan immigrants came to form Yamnayans whilst leaving no ancestry.

>>2884906
>>2884903
here is a start
Mallory, James P. In search of the Indo-Europeans: language, archaeology and myth. London: Thames and Hudson
D. Nikolić, 2000, Kostolačka kultura na teritoriji Srbje, Centre for Archaeological Research, 19, Beograd, 2000.
H. Ciugudean, 2000, Eneoliticul final în Transilvania şi Banat: cultura Coţofeni, Bibliotheca Historica et Archaeologica Banatica, Timişoara, 2000.

>>2884835
A recent paper has R1A DNA from India 15KYA. India was a refugium for R1a

>>2884903
>>2884906

I didn't say this
>>2884896

I was referring to the R1B samples from the Balkans from as early as 9000BC and Villabruna 14KYA

>>2884946
>A recent paper has R1A DNA from India 15KYA. India was a refugium for R1a

lol

>>2884950
You've said absolutely nothing.

>>2884945
>lets ignore the a month old study about genomes and rather read shitty linguistics/archeology books from almost 20 years ago in largely evolving field over time

Why are you so retarded? These theories don't hold ground nowadays.

>>2884980
If we're both referring to the same paper it was done by Pajeets and they have absolutely no data to confirm in the slightest their theory. Oldest R1a's found so far are from Eastern Europe.

>>2884999
I was just reading from eurogenes, Davidski said it himself, it was one of the most ardent Anti-Indian guys. The paper is still a preprint?

>>2884981

this addresses your haplomeme autism:

>>2883387
>>2883457
>>2883725

File: Capture.jpg (14KB, 371x88px)

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>>2885012
>The paper is still a preprint?
Yes.
>I was just reading from eurogenes, Davidski said it himself, it was one of the most ardent Anti-Indian guys.

No wonder, comment section in there is full of retarded Pajeets, Afro-centrists and all sorts of various people with their own agendas.

Like this guy for example.
>>2884946


Who thinks ancient Balkanites were responsible for PIE, while his brain can't comprehend a simple fact that they shared no ancestry. Instead he relies on old theories and books in largely evolving study because those theories sound nice to his ears. Nearly everyone linguists and archaeologists thought Globular Amphora culture was thought to be of Indo-European origin. Guess what? They were mostly of Anatolian farmer stock with some local HG's on top, with absolutely steppe ancestry.

>>2885042
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

> not him, btw

File: intredasting.jpg (51KB, 685x567px)

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>>2885047
>Like this guy for example.
That's me you dumb retard, Davidski writes the blog, you're replying to the same person. Your complete lack of awareness proves your stupidity.

>>2885047
>with absolutely steppe ancestry.
no steppe ancestry*

>>2883867
>>2884543
You sound upset.

>>2885060
You're a fucking retard, the Balkan R1Bs go back to 9000BC.


Balkan R1b
> 9000BC - 3000BC

Yamnaya
> 3500–2300 BC

>>2880485
Caucasus Hunter Gatheres is a fundamental part of the earliest aryans anyway

>>2881504
>look up what a social contract actually is

there is no such thing in reality, but it can be seen an implicit agreement that allows large groups of people to live in cooperation and close proximity to each other. It's kind of a given in agricultural societies, considering the implications.

Even hunter-gatherers had division of labor.

>look up what constitutes an organised society

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ORGANSSED LEARN TWO SPELL MORAN

What exactly would evidence of a social contract look like?

>>2885073
Haplogroups =/= Autosomal admixture.

You dumb fucking nigger, neither Balkan R1b's nor Latvian R1b's from 6-5K BC, nor Villabruna R1b from 12K BC are ancestral to modern day European R1b's. Jesus fuck are you so inept that you're basing your whole theory that ancient Balkan population is responsible for Yamnyans because they both had R1b?

You're so fucking clueless.

>>2885042
>haplomeme autism
brainlet detected

>>2884784
So Rongorongo was the written form of the Easter Island language? No, both are proto-writing.

Engravements would be made on objects as votive offerings. This is the general consensus of academics, although on both sides some academics claim that they were true writing systems.

Funnily enough, the people who claim that the Vinca symbols were real writing tend to be from the Balkans...

>>2884766
>>2884773
oh dear

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_pyramid_claims

>>2885104

You're fucking clueless, you can can change your autosomal admixture overnight. European R1bs are downstream of Balkan R1b.

If I marry a negro female, and all my paternal sons for 2000 years marry into a negro, you'd claim that I did not exist, and my ancestors were all negroes as my admixture would be completely different to 40 generations downstream.

File: 350e18218afbc27e69ec033587ba0427.jpg (159KB, 1274x717px)

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>>2884753
>>2884758
wow, absolutely incredible! Thatched roofs in 5000 BC!

>>2885145
wow, absolutely incredible! mud huts in 2000 BC!

>>2885145
>Thatched roofs in 5000 BC!
Where do we live today?

In houses like >>2884758

Or in cities like
>>2885145
> YOU BUILD WITH WHAT YOU HAVE

Romans just happened to land in cement.

>>2885073
The oldest human remains found to carry with R1b so far is an individual from the Epigravettian culture context in Italy (Villabruna) who lived circa 12,000 BCE

>>2885145
>mud houses and bricks in 2000 bc

Incredible!!!

>>2885141
>European R1bs are downstream of Balkan R1b.

>you can can change your autosomal admixture overnight

This nigga. Mal'ta boy for example had R* you think he's ancestral to all modern day R1a's and R1b's? Guess what, he was a fucking genetic dead end.

>>2884766
>Bosniah pyramids

cringe

>>2885160
in a tent city. fuck PIE and fuck Trypillians. Sumeria, masonry, and Babylon rulez!

>>2885135
Rongo memo was copied badly from Europeans and could have been writings, we don't now.

File: Archtiecture.png (1MB, 1360x623px)

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>>2885188
Mesopotamians are so fucking cringy shit when compared to Egypt

File: 1436307137136.jpg (38KB, 442x933px)

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>>2885182

>>2885170
b-but ancient Balkans

>>2885216
>>2885170
I quoted Villabruna you fucking autistosmal idiots

>>2885073

R1b is 20k years old. It spread to the Balkans from the east.

>>2885216
it shows that the balkanites were once roaming around italy. it all depends on the best preserved samples. the oldest samples are just what have been preserved and are not actual absolutes.

most yamna and other ancient samples are not even ydna retrievable

>>2885235
Continue posting, I need more posts with comedy value.

>>2885231
just kick these trolls in their cloacas already!

>>2885235

So when do you think R came to the Balkans via the steppe?

>>2885141
>you can can change your autosomal admixture overnight.
>If I marry a negro female, and all my paternal sons for 2000 years

Since when is 2000 years overnight? Work it out in your head before posting.

File: Sumerians.png (2MB, 2649x1421px)

2MB, 2649x1421px

>>2885200
>>2885145
>Muh Sumerians!!!!!

R1B-L51's age is roughly 6000 years old.


>>2885265
lol, the steppes weren't habitable 14000 years ago

>>2885269
nice lack of argument

>>2885170
doesn't actually suggest origin, just simple presence.

File: cana.jpg (863KB, 2536x1898px)

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The north is like a game of Musical Chairs, we all dance around from east to west and west to east, then the music stops playing, and you have to take a seat.

>>2885279
>>2885073
>>2885170
what we know for sure is r1b and i2a was present in trypllian and later in yamna, this is fact

>>2885278

They were actually.
We know that R is very closely related to Q carried by Native Americans and linked with the North Eurasian genetic component which arrived to Europe from Siberia/Kazakhstan.
Only question is when it happened.

>>2885298
mespotamians btfo

File: _Egypt.png (2MB, 3987x1555px)

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>>2885270

>>2885278
>lol, the steppes weren't habitable 14000 years ago


comedy gold

>>2885303

for you
>>2885296


The north is like a tidal river, when it goes out, everyone runs down onto the mud flats to collect mussels, when the tide come in again, you better be gone, or you'll end up a genetic dead end.

>>2885324
nice argument

File: UR.jpg (347KB, 1600x612px)

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>>2885160
>>2885157
>>2885173
1) City states like this existed long before 2000BC
2) Those aren't made out of mud, they are made out of stone. You couldn't build the huge infrastructure that the Sumerians built with mud, you dumb fuck. Stop LARPing as a proto-Indo-European.
3) They are not "huts", they are houses, unlike the buildings of the Cucuteni–Trypillian, which often were huts or semi-underground. Some of their houses were two stories but were built in primitive techniques such as Wattle and daub. This is pretty cool considering how ancient this culture is, but incomparable to a Sumerian city-state.
4) Most of the sources I've looked at had academics saying that the infrastructure of these settlements was poor: there weren't really shops, carpenters, etc so people did everything inside their own house. It wasn't a living, breathing city like Uruq, Ur, Lagash, etc were.

>People build with what they have!!!
True, but I don't think stone was non-existent in the Balkans. I think they didn't build with stone because they lacked high-quality tools, infrastructure, beasts of burden to build huge stone fortresses. This is a consequence of living in 5000 BC.

As the picture says, can you see anything in the picture that might exemplify why Ur was such an advanced CITY?

File: F2.large.jpg (126KB, 1280x618px)

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>>2885334
COMEDY
O
M
E
D
Y
GOLD
O
L
D

>>2885200
>>2885270
>>2885319
I'm not saying the Sumerians were better than anyone, I'm using them because they built the first cities.

Reply to the people saying these large settlements in the Balkans were cities that could rival Thebes or Sumer.

>>2885364
Those settlements are fucking glorified villages, I'm just here to shit on Sum*rians

>>2885341
>Those aren't made out of mud, they are made out of stone
stopped reading there.

just keep embarassing yourself retard.

sumerian buildings were made of Sun-baked mud

>Sun-baked mud


>trypillian urban life
>>2884886

>>2885373
t. Anwar Sadat

>>2885354

And who lived there? Fucking horses, because they have long heads that can be buried into the snow to get at grasses, it was not habitable to pastoral people because the climate was too harsh. The people that domesticated horses, did so because they were new to the animals.

> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6336/442

>>2885404>>2885354
Pastoral people couldn't live there in the first place because neither goats nor sheeps had been domesticated yet.

>>2885298
As a lurker, this thread has proven without a doubt the PIE-Trypllian relation and the advanced city-based civilisation of Trypllian. Butthurt shills will deny this.

>>2885385
Sumerians used Straw and Mud bricks, they were fire baked, what you see is plaster, they plastered over the Bricks to prevent them from being damaged by rain, yes they had rain in Sumeria and Mesopotamia.

>>2885404
>Horse domestication
>14,000 years ago

Anon... Stop moving goalposts, you first said it was not habitable, even though it was not surprisingly population density wasn't very high since steppes aren't very suited for berry pickers.

>>2885423
>timbuktu-tier mud houses
sumerians are glorified subsahran africans

>>2885438
Your phallacies are limp.

>>2885325

So where is RQ from?
Serbia? Romania?

Are Peruvians Serbs?

>>2885444
Your retardation is amazing. First you claim that steppes weren't habitable 14,000 years ago, when show that they were you bring horses into picture, nigga no one asked about horses. Fact is steppe was populated 14,000 years ago, though not very densely. Since you know prior advent of agriculture and pastoralism you know vast fields of grass weren't exactly best suited for hunter-gatherers.

File: Hunnu_Empire.jpg (134KB, 914x507px)

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>>2885420


this
>>2885296


The climate changes, peoples often move south because of the increasing arid climate. If a pastoral people entered the steppes through the Caspian area, then migrated around for a few 100 years, ended up in Mongolia, then they climate shifted, they would go south toward China.

>>2885422
>>2885298
really triggers the gilgamesh

>>2885385
I said "You couldn't build the huge infrastructure that the Sumerians built with mud", and it turns out I was half right. The large civic buildings, which did not exist in the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, were not made out of mud-brick to avoid decay. They were built out of stone slabs. Most houses were made out of mud-brick, so I apologize, but frankly this does not change anything.

Where is the infrastructure in Talianki? The pyramid thing is just a laughable meme, so it seems there were no huge buildings apart from "large hut X" or "even large hut Y". No canals, no genuine writing system apart from proto-writing symbols, no infrastructure, etc. The art is what one would expect from this time period, limited to pottery and small figurines.

Attempting to negate what the Sumerians achieved does not make "Talianki" the first city.

>>2885466
floppy limp useless bastard.

>>2885474
Said the Balkanite subhuman.

>>2885473
just stop embarassing yourself

Trypillian had large civic buildings, scroll up you retard.

Sumerian buildings were mud-based, even the ziggurat. fuck off

>>2885456
>So where is RQ from?
No idea, considering they were most likely Hunter Gatherers, I would say here and there, and more over there than here.

to simplify things, the ancestors of the Proto-Indo-Europeans were probably the Samara-Khvalynsk people. they might have migrated into Dnieper-Donets territory to give rise to Sredny Stog (but that remains to be seen) which was contemporary to Cucuteni-Trypillian and very influenced by it

the end of CT is still uncertain but it's likely that environmental factors allowed steppe pastroralists to expand at their expense (and destroy too while at it)

File: DjoserPyramidCloseUp.jpg (34KB, 261x400px)

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>>2885489
>mud-based
Not him, but what do you think everything is made from? Everything is shite larping as gold.

>>2885496
Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was of Anatolian farmer stock, only towards ends of it Steppe component appears. It couldn't have had originated from earlier steppe cultures.

>>2885496

no violence, Trypillian rejoined the Yamna, whom they spawned

see >>2875576
>>2883358
>>2883476
>>2880868

File: unit-3-part-1-the-first-civilization-sumer-9-638.jpg (119KB, 638x479px)

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>>2885422
I haven't been following this gene stuff because it 's boring, but have you guys actually been looking at what academics have been saying?

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0172952

I have no intention of discovering the ins and outs of genealogy or it's jargon, but what I can understand is that academics are NOT referring to these sites as "cities".

They are calling them "mega-sites", and using the prefix "proto" whenever possible.

The accomplishments of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture are astounding, given the time-period, but it must be accepted that they were not dwelling in "cities". "City" should be used when referring to places such as Uruk, Ur, Memphis, Thebes, etc.

Pic related is a city, now compare this to pictures of the site found in the Balkans.

R1Bs refugium was in Italy and North Africa 15,000 years ago.

>>2885522

They are cities based upon population alone, scaled up to the modern age, the population in some of these "sites" would be about 10 million.

Today, in order to be a city in Ireland and Britain, you must have a Cathedral. That is a retarded classification.

>>2885515
did I say it originated from steppe cultures? CT has its origins in the Balkans, archaeologists agreed on that before genetics even came around. I said the pastoralists ended up expanding at their expense

>>2885521
Yamna has Pontic-Caspian steppe origins, CT has Balkan origins. they didn't give rise to one another though the steppe was influenced both by the Balkans and the north Caucasus (Layla Tepe - Maikop)

>>2885537
>Yamna has Pontic-Caspian steppe origins, CT has Balkan origins. they didn't give rise to one another though the steppe was influenced both by the Balkans and the north Caucasus (Layla Tepe - Maikop)

Not him, but Yamnaya has multiple influences from disparate populations.

>>2885489
>Stop embarrassing yourself
>He said whilst denying what even the academics who spend their whole lives studying Talianki have said - that it is a "proto-urban mega site."

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0172952

>Large
How large is large? I can't find what you're referring to, it's just going to be "large hut X" isn't it?

>Sumerian buildings were mud-based.
We've already established that except large civic buildings were often made from stone slabs. Greek pottery is also made from mud (clay), so what?

Once again, trying to negate what the Sumerians (first city-dwelling civilization) did does not mean that Talianki was a city. I'm agreeing with the consensus of academics: that it was an amazing proto-urban mega site, but not a city.

>>2885522
nice reconstruction and ethnocentric bias.

see >>2880647

academics have to follow the politically correct narrative

Trypillian had hierarchy, religion, govt, administrative centers, spiritual centers, cultural centers, large ass buildings for ceremonies and separate large ass buildings for govt. they had extensive developed trade and traded with distant peoples
>>2884886

>>2885521
>Trypillian rejoined the Yamna, whom they spawned

Trypilian samples from 3,800-3700 BC at least 70% Anatolian farmer.

Yamna sample Ukraine from 3,000 BC 0% Anatolian farmer.

Corded Ware sample from Latvia 2,900 BC 0% Anatolian farmer, in PCA plots near indistinguishable from Yamnya.

WE WUZ STEPPE PEOPLE AND SHIT

>>2885550
lurk this thread b4 shitposting and scroll the fuck up. your retarded questions will be met with brute facts and graphics

>>2885534
>They are a city based on population alone
How large does the population have to be? If a refugee camp had a million people in it would it be a city?

>>2885473
>>2884543

There's a legit reason why academics do not refer to it as a city, anon.

>>2885561
>not knowing of r1b and i2a in both
scroll up retard

>>2883387
>>2883457
>>2883725
>>2885073
>>2885298

>>2885561
sure, he's wrong but some of you need to stop focusing only on population genetics. read a book or two on other subjects as well, genetics can only confirm or disconfirm existing archaeological and linguistic theories and they can barely answer subtler questions

File: samarra2.jpg (63KB, 310x351px)

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>>2885573
(((legit reason)))

I took a lecture series on Mesopotamia, they included all the cultures there except for Samarra, why would they do this? Seeing that Samarra is one of the most central cultures in the region, I'll tell you why, pic related.

>>2885303

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus-Anatolian-Hyrcanian_temperate_forest

Some Native Americans carry R Y-DNA predating the R1A/R1B split.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4105016/

>>2885579
R1b and R1a was also found in Khvalnysk, also R1b in Italy prior Balkans, l2a were found in many HG groups from Iberia to British Isles to Baltics, to Steppe.

http://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2015/10/10/016477.full.pdf

Page 35.

Gobble that up Balkan we wuzer.

>>2884886
[citation needed]
>>2885554

>academics have to follow the politically correct narrative
Well, yes, an academic would likely lose his job if he published a paper that claimed that the Jews deserved to be gassed, but I don't think he would if he claimed Tapilianki was the first city. I think doing that would get him a lot of attention, which is positive surely?

>Hierarchy, religion
A hunter-gatherer tribe has this.

>Govt, administrative centres, spiritual centres, cultural centres, large-ass buildings (how large?)

>Extensive developed trade
So I've heard, but I'm going to need proof for the rest if I'm to believe it. It would be helpful if you could actually post a lot of academic journals, and then I would be more inclined to believe you.

Right now, it sounds like your emotion is clouding your judgement. You really want to believe that this culture built cities long before the Sumerians did and despite academics disagreeing with you, you still hold it to be true.

It happens to the best of us, dw, sometimes I find myself believing that Byzantine Empire was a continuation of the Roman empire.

>>2885602
>also R1b in Italy prior Balkans

that's meaningless, there would have been movements from the Balkans and Eastern Europe into Italy in the Mesolithic, not vice versa

it's clear that R has an Eastern European and steppe bias

>>2885602
>Khvalnysk
But that is 4000 years after some of the Balkan samples. You cannot undermine Balkans with downstream evidence.

>>2885586
Samarrans wuz nazis?

>>2885573
>If a refugee camp had a million people in it would it be a city?
Yes?

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>>2885622
Apparently they liked to paint swastikas onto their pottery. Therefore they should be excluded from modern histories of Mesopotamia.

>>2885618
I agree with you but let's not confuse ultimate origins with recent origins. the R on the steppe in Khvalynsk didn't have RECENT Balkan origins but it might have had ULTIMATE ones

the recent R in Europe is of steppe, not native, origins

>>2885631
Apparently Trypillian doesnt fit the semitic supremicist biblical narrative. Therefore they should be excluded from modern histories of ancient civilizations.

>>2884543
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eridu
>"The earliest village settlement (c.5000 BC) had grown into a substantial city of mudbrick and reed houses by c.2900 BC, covering 8-10 ha (20-25 acres). Mallowan writes that by the Ubaid period, it was as an "unusually large city" of an area of approx. 20¬25 acres, with a population of "not less than 4000 souls".

UNUSUALLY LARGE

Meanwhile, 3850 BC in the Balkans.

>Talianki
Kruts estimated the total area of the settlement at 450 hectares (1,100 acres), on the assumption that it had a rectangular plan.[5] Extrapolating from this and the density of houses in the surveyed portions of the site, M. Videiko estimated that Talianki contained approximately 2,700 structures and, at its height, could have been occupied by over 15,000 inhabitants.[3] Recently Kruts' figure has been revised by Thomas K. Harper, who used a geomagnetic plan of the site to put its area at 335 hectares (830 acres). This implies Videiko's figure for the peak population of the site is also an overestimation, with Harper suggesting 6,300–11,000 as a more likely range, favouring the lower end.[5] But other estimates are much larger with a population of around 15,000 as the most cited, and adding the numbers for the satellite towns the total population were up to 25,000–30,000 people within its cluster.[6][7] Research in 2014 indicates that Talianki contained between 15,600 to 21,000 people.[8]

EASILY UPWARDS OF 20,000 PEOPLE AND MORE THAN THIRTY TIMES LARGER

You talking about Ur and Uruk is funny, they're 1000 years older than Talianki.

>>2885636
>the recent R in Europe is of steppe, not native, origins

The drip of R1B into the Steppe may have come from the Balkans though, R1A and R1B diverged for a reason, that reason was extreme geographic isolation from each other. 1A and 1B where not together for the last 20KY

>>2885650
>Ur and Uruk is funny, they're 1000 years YOUNGER than Talianki.

>>2885617
>there would have been movements from the Balkans and Eastern Europe into Italy in the Mesolithic,

You sure? For example the most prominent branch other than R1b-M269 in Europe is R1b-V88 guess where it to Europe from? North Africa.

>it's clear that R has an Eastern European and steppe bias

Also what bias? So far all the hard evidence points towards it. It ain't my problem that your theories are solely based on belief and haplogroups while not taking autosomal DNA into account. I don't know if you're the same person who claimed you can wash out ancestry overnight, but you certainly wouldn't be able to wash out 70% of farmer ancestry to absolute 0% in mere 700~ years. Fact is there is no archaeological trace of migration from Balkans to Steppe while there is from steppe to Balkans and there's genetic evidence too.

>>2885650
b-but Talianki is fake, boring, desolate. its just not a real city. not metro, not even bus transport !!! WAAAAHHHHH

>>2885665
they were glorified settlements before 2900 BC m8.

>>2885674
>guess where it to Europe from? North Africa

I don't get it. are you saying that V88 came to Europe from North Africa? because it's likely not the case

>Also what bias?

erm no, I meant that R seems to have an Eastern European concentration overall from the Mesolithic to the Chalcolithic. as in its *distribution is biased* towards that region

and of course there was migration from the Balkans to the steppe, unless you don't realize where the steppe exactly ends. that it was distinct from the pastoralist Yamna horizon is certain as I said earlier

>>2885682
>>2885641

Jericho is regarded as the first city, which predates everyone else, so the biblical narrative still stands.


Jericho
> 9000BC

Don't know why it passes their city classification test, whereas Trypillian doesn't. Many Egyptologists refuse to believe that any other place was civilized before Egypt, people get too emotionally invested into theories, then Groupthink sets in and you'll be ostracized for merely looking in the wrong direction.

>>2885712
The Steppes are 10,000 miles away from the Balkans, stop kidding yourself you Balkanite Subhuman

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>>2885631
ffs, the swastika was found literally everywhere. why would they exclude it.

>>2885709
The Steppes are 10,000 miles away from the Balkans, stop kidding yourself you Balkanite Subhuman

meant for you
>>2885726

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobrovody
>Dobrovody is a 4th millennium BC site of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture. The newest research (2014) indicates that Dobrovody could contain up to 16,200 citizens,[1] and was one of the largest cities in the world in its day. The total area is about 2.5 km2. Using aerial photography, a fortified city with blocks and streets can be seen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebelivka_(archaeological_site)
>an ancient mega-settlement dating to 4000 B.C. belonging to the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture. The settlement was for the time huge, covering an area of 260-300 hectares and home to perhaps 15,000 - 17,000 people.[1][2] The settlement within the boundary ditch includes over 1200 structures. Research from 2012 to 2014 imply "the possibility of state-level societies", contemporary with similar developments in Uruk. Mega-structures "suggest the presence of public buildings for meetings or ceremonies".[3][4]

"""mega-settlement"""
intellectual cancer

>>2875426
>>2875434
Lol at these autistic fucks both thinking the other is op

>>2885727
The Lecturer talks about the Steppes a lot, she describes how the Sumerians were very aware of them, I guess she didn't want to include that symbol for obvious reasons.

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>>2885729
>The Steppes are 10,000 miles away from the Balkans

obviously wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Steppe

>>2885732
Meanwhile the great "city" of Troy just had 1000 inhabitants during the supposed Trojan war

>>2885729
>The Steppes are 10,000 miles away from the Balkans, stop kidding yourself you Balkanite Subhuman

look, kid, you're confusing me with the other guy first of all and second, I'm not going to play around with vague definitions. the fact is that CT occupied part of the steppe and that region basically was the end of agricultural southeast Old Europe and the beginning of the Pontic-Caspian steppe pastoralist economy

crack open a book sometime instead of just reading some population genetic studies

>>2885741
Stop fooling yourselves, you Baklanites are going crash hard, believe you me.

The Balkans are not on the same planet as the steppes.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidanetske
>The second, much larger Cucuteni-Trypillian settlement is located on the left bank of the Tal'ianki River, west of Maidanets, which was inhabited near 3700-3600 BC. The settlement encompassed about 250 hectares (600 acres), measuring 1.5 kilometers (0.93 mi) in length and 1.1 kilometers (0.68 mi) wide, and was laid out in an oval pattern. This site was explored by an archaeologcal team led by M. Shmalij from 1971 to 1991, who employed magnetometric analysis to map out the settlement (made by V. Dudkin), revealing a total of 1575 buildings, including dwellings, fortifications, sanctuaries, and some two-storied houses (on 180 ha explored area). The excavation of the site produced almost 50 artifacts, including a unique collection of painted pottery and figurines. This settlement was one of the largest of the Cucuteni-Trypillian, making it also one of the largest settlements in the world during the time that it flourished.[2]

>New research (2014) indicates a much more dense populated site with at least 2297 and up to 2968 houses existed at the same time circa 3700 BC. Thus the population are also far larger than before thought with conservative estimations at 12,000, a probable average of 29,000 inhabitants but with the possibility of 46,000 inhabitants.[3]

>In addition to the two Cucuteni-Trypillian cultural sites, Maidanets is also the location two other ancient archaeological sites. Two Yamna culture tumuli (burial mounds) are located near the village, containing eight graves dating back to the middle of the 3rd Millennium BC. Also, in the nearby Geliv Stav location, are the remains of a small settlement dating to the 4th century AD of the Chernyakhov culture.[2]

wow
nothing to see here

>>2885754
tard, CT occupied part of the steppe and it was the last culture of Old Europe, right on the bounder with the later Yamna horizon

genetic differences and geography are two different things. keep shitposting on theapricity instead of trying to debate inanities

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>>2885709
>and of course there was migration from the Balkans to the steppe,

Where do you people get this idea from? Look Iron_Gates samples from Serbian/Romanian border, they're almost all fully WHG with one outlier being about 50% EHG and other 50% farmer. Then after agriculture arrival all Balkan samples are 85-90% Anatolian farmer stock, with mere few percent of WHG' or EHG, Ukrainian Mesolithic samples are 100% EHG's.

Yamnyans can be modelled as about 50/50 EHG+CHG. Explain to me how are you so certain of migration from Balkans to Steppes.

>>2885771
hey idiot. start trying to understand where the steppe ends and the geographic spread of CT and you'll understand why I said

a) there was migration from the Balkans to the steppe
b) CT and the Yamna horizon were distinct, genetically also as made clear recently

genuine question, are you autistic or just dumb?

>>2885771
Is R1BA1 a steppe marker? But all Steppe R1Bs are downstream from R1BA1.

Tell me how R1BA1 became Steppe admixed?

>>2885771
Sorry meant this

>>2885793
>R1BA1
R1b1a1

>>2885789
>a) there was migration from the Balkans to the steppe

No evidence lol. Unless you consider Anatolian farmers to be of Balkan origin. There's was Anatolian farmer migration towards periphery of steppe where CT was located, but not Balkanite HG's to steppe.

>>2885828
Tell me how R1b1a1 became Steppe admixed in some populations and not steppe admixed in others? And if you know this where did they split.

>>2885828
at the time, the Balkans were mostly Anatolian farmer like with some HG admixture and some more HG-like survivals around

do you still not understand the difference between geography and genetics, my German friend, or does your brain collapse thousands of years into a single instance?

and how the "EHG" came to be is a different matter altogether, back in the Mesolithic some migrations from the Balkans were likely involved

>>2885842
I can tell about as much as wikipedia or some other shit website there's no hard evidence to suggest that it came from steppe 100% so far, but many people suggest that it came via steppe. For all I know it could have had come from Maykop or Catacomb culture.

>>2885875

IT'S IN THE FUCKING BALKANS

> I5237 Iron Gates Serbia
> 8700 BC

R1Bs are time travelers, all disputes sorted.

>>2874196
I bet you've still got the greatest cities to this day!...oh wait

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>>2885866
All this shitpost over semantics while trying to deflect from real argument, no Balkaniggers didn't contribute to Steppe people, only people with farmer ancestry on Steppe where CT's or do you consider Anatolian farmers Balkaniggers as soon as they crossed Bosphorus? Fact is in nearly every genetic study Steppe is synonymous to Yamna. No one gives a fuck about your cuckshed Trypilians neither farmers or HG's of Balkans contributed to Steppe.

>back in the Mesolithic some migrations from the Balkans were likely involved
>likely

No evidence. Mesolithic Steppe samples are EHG's, while Balkan Mesolithic samples are. WHG's. Bronze age Steppe samples are EHG+CHG.


cuck

>>2885970

How did they get Steppe Admixture?

Answer this or never post again.
>>2885842

>>2885976
>Answer this or never post again.

What you gonna do? Stop me from posting?

>>2885889
okay you can go tell that to David Reich, Johannes Krause and others

>>2885970
yeah, dumbo, those populations weren't "Anatolian" when they had been living in those areas for thousands of years. genetics =/= geography. try to derive CT straight from Anatolia in archaeological terms and see how successful you are

I did say the Old European system and the pastoralists were distinct areas but they lived next to each other

>Mesolithic Steppe samples are EHG's, while Balkan Mesolithic samples are. WHG's

are you nuts? do you think the EHGs were born in the steppe? they are likely the result of a Mesolithic European population and a Central Asian one (see the spread of pottery from Baikal to Samara) merging which explains why they can also be modelled as 75% ANE, 25% WHG

you should open a book sometime and stop just reading population genetics studies

>>2886008
Have you even looked at the Mathieson 2017 paper?

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>>2885984

>>2886026
You should open a vocabulary instead of parroting the same sentence every post.

>MUH OPEN A BOOK BIX NOOD MUHFUGA LOOK HOW SMART I AM


Also every argument of yours is.
>likely
Whilist not citing any source or study. You can get bent queer. NATO should bomb your shitholes again.

>>2886048
but you're clearly clueless on this topic except from what you've gleaned from a few population genetic studies

I'm pretty sure you haven't even read Mallory or Anthony despite having such a hard-on for the steppe

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>>2886059
You're the one who's clueless so far in whole thread you haven't present not a slightest shred of evidence to support your shit theory that there was migration from Balkans to Steppe and even posting such retarded shit as EHG's being 25% WHG.

There's 0 genetic evidence and 0 archaeological evidence to support what you say.

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>>2885650
Eridu is mostly referred to as a city because Sumerian writers referred to it as the world's first city. Uruk, Ur and others are better examples of the Sumerian city-states.

The source is "Tripolye - Mega-Sites and European Prehistory, 4100-3400 BCE"

Once again, for the final time, it's not the population that really matters. Uruk and Ur had populations that were far greater than the most generous of estimates made by archeologists of the Trypillian cultures.