How did probably one of the most based MENA nations manage to

Iran is still comparably advanced in the field of steam cells

>>2861133
Well for one thing, many of Iran's brightest minds fled the country as soon as they could. That's what people like Erdogan don't understand - you can ride religious hicks to power, but it's a short term gain only - in the long term it creates brain drain and capital flight out of your nation.

>>2861133
The Qajar dynasty fucked up a bunch by being so pathetically weak and ruining Iranian power. Even then Iran is one of the more diversified and industrialized economies in the ME and they produce much better cultural output than any other country in the region

>>2861133

If you want to place blame on the Iranian revolution, just blame the USA and UK.

OMG a socialist?! Replace him with dictator who pisses off his people!

>tfw have to cancel my plans to go sightseeing in West Baluchistan.
Why even live?

>>2861159

I'm sure Erdogan understand this, he just doesn't care. the guy is super smart but also a psychopath, he's only in it for what he can get for himself.

>>2861133

Religion is one hell of a drug. You could ask the same exact thing of the sophisticated urban civilization of the Classical period, kicked back into primitive superstition by the triumph of Kikeanity. When America finally collapses and the religious fundies take over, I'm sure the Chinks will be wondering how such a technologically and culturally advanced state could vanish into religious fundamentalism and irrelevance, too.

>>2861170
chicken!

>>2861172
>You could ask the same exact thing of the sophisticated urban civilization of the Classical period, kicked back into primitive superstition by the triumph of Kikeanity.
You can't possible believe this shit. It was Christianity that was picked up by the urbanites of the Roman Empire while the rest crumbled under apathy. It was Christianity that preserved Rome for another thousands years in the ERE.

>>2861165

how come the Western influence/interference didn't cause mass patriotism in Iranian culture & history instead of mass dedication to Islamic shit?

>>2861221
There were and still are a lot of Persian nationalists, and iirc they may have been one of the constituent groups in the revolution

>>2861221
>how come iranians didn't choose a bad thing and instead chose a good thing
gee i wonder

>>2861234

well really why would anyone choose bad thing over obvious good thing

looking at Iranian history/culture, so much of it is so awesome & impressive why abandon it

>>2861172
>I'm sure Erdogan understand this, he just doesn't care. the guy is super smart but also a psychopath, he's only in it for what he can get for himself.
Hmm... I guess maybe you're right.

>>2861248
They didn't abandon it. Shiism had been a part of it since the 1500's

File: emoji-thinking-3d-model-low-poly-max-obj-3ds-fbx.jpg (19KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 500x500px

>>2861263

is Shiism an Iranian creation/thing..? And does it promote Iranian culture?

genuine question btw

>>2861221
because all dissenting opponents of the shah where purged,silenced and oppressed, except for the churchs

File: Photos-of-Balochistan-A-panoramic-view-of-Makran-Coastal-Highway-Balochistan-Pictures-of-Balochistan[1].jpg (111KB, 603x440px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 603x440px

>>2861170

>>2861271
no iran was sunni majority during most of the islamic portion of its history

shiism was mainly an arab thing in the beginning

>>2861276

so even Iranian patriots/nationalists were purged/silenced by the Shah?

desu i always thought it was the Ayatollah who did that shit... the Shah did it even before then?

>>2861281

so how did Iran end up becoming 90%+ Shia? (according to Wikipedia..)

>>2861271
Shiism broke off immediately following Muhammad's death and was solidified with hussein's death in the 680's. It had hopped around various places under various dynasties including Egypt, Northern Syria and Yemen, but all those places were eventually conquered by Sunni powers. Theologically it's more eschatological and is very appealing to oppressed people, which is why it appealed to a lot of non-Arabs who found all the Arabs chauvinistic

>>2861147
Iran is a third world shithole that puts on a very effective propaganda front.

Go outside the Tehran financial district and Iran looks like Pakistan and Afghanistan.

>>2861295
safavid dynasty took over and most of the populace converted

>>2861287
The shah suppressed anyone who didn't tow his extremely pro American line, which included the communists, the religious leaders, and the nationalists. The revolution had one of the weirdest coalitions in history
>>2861295
Safavid dynasty reunited the plateau in the 1500's and Shiism became the state religion

>>2861297
there is nothing wrong with a simple rural lifestyle you cunt

File: bf4f7417-2a59-442b-8a61-8dd44ec5726d.jpg (265KB, 1029x600px) Image search: [Google]

265KB, 1029x600px

>>2861297

look at this beauty and seriously tell me that Iran is 3rd world-tier

>>2861308
I recommend searching about Safavid Isfahan if the OP wants to see "Iranian civilization"

Note that the largest building or 2nd largest was a mosque

>>2861271
Shiism is not an an Iranian creation. The first Shias emerged shortly after Muhammad's death. (A fundamental belief is that Ali, (Muhammad's son-in-law) should have succeed him.) However, Shiism did not become dominant in Iran and Northern Azerbaijan until the Safavid Era, so named due to the Shia Safaviya order.
Nevertheless, the relationship with Shiism and Iran is an interesting one. From the beginning, Ali demonstrated generosity towards the Iranians. Furthermore, the Shii belief in Imams does appeal to Iranian sensibilities. The Imams are to serve as spiritual guides for the Muslim community after Muhammad. Ali's son, Husayn is considered an Imam. His wife was a Sassanian princess, daughter of the last Sassanian Shahanshah...in a sense, legitimizing Islam and unifying the both Islamic and Iranian legacies into one.
Some might say it is an attempt to salvage the wounded dignity of a proud civilization who fallen on hard times.

>>2861319

thank you for the detailed response - so really it's more of a coincidence that Iran ended up being a Shia majority?

Was it quick to convert Zoroastrians? If I'm remembering correctly, Zoroastrianism still holds good footing in Iran to this day & is making a comeback with younger Iranians. Please correct me if I'm wrong in this, however.

Why is there so much regret and focus on Iran being Muslim then there is for other, similar cool Muslim nations nowadays?

>>2861336
Yeah, really any country (or none at all) could have ended up Shia.
And I'm pretty sure Zoroastrianism is pretty much dead, the current government hates it because a lot of sunnis say Shiism is just Islam plus Zoroasterianism, so they want to dispel that

>>2861345

don't get me wrong, I'm still pissed about Mesopotamia falling to the Islam bullshit. RIP

>>2861352
The majority of Zoroastrians live outside Iran and have for a while. More recently, the majority of Christians of Iran have left. I believe I read there are 100k Zoroastrians traditionally from India.

>>2861221
Because the Shah heavily pushed Iranian nationalism. Just look at his 2500th anniversary of Cyrus. The plebs hated that shit.

The Revolution was a reaction to the Shah's policies - this includes Iranian nationalism

>>2861352
Also, Mesopotamia may have been only 80% Muslim bbefore WWI. I think it was a higher proportion in Iran at the same time.

>>2861297
You have never been to Iran have you?

>>2861221
Because the Shah who they're against, is a huge ethno nationalist

>>2861133
Jealous Americans brought it down with a CIA funded coup, they feared Persia's resurgence.

>>2861133

because Americans/American Empire

>>2861159
Yeah no, most of these big time religious groups like the Nur's and Gülen followers believe education is key to doing well. Good try though, because that usually is the case.

>>2862246
Yeah, their "education".

>>2861314
lots of objectively awful places have beautiful scenery and monuments
having nice art doesn't mean your not 3rd world

>>2861133
Iran is still a huge player in Middle Eastern/Central Asian/South Asian politics

The Syrian government has Iranian backing, Hezbollah is basically an Iranian vassal within Lebanon, Shi'ite militias are being trained by the Iranians in Iraq to fight ISIS, and the Houthi rebels in Yemen are also backed by Iran.

>>2862350

Forgot to mention that the Northern Alliance of Ahmad Shah Massoud in Afghanistan had Iranian backing.

File: khomeini-ayatollah-image[1].jpg (16KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 300x300px

>>2861133
Fuck this liberal nonsense. Iran was a lap dog of the West ran by apostates. The Iranian people rose up rightly against an aberration against the natural order.

>>2861319
>Furthermore, the Shii belief in Imams does appeal to Iranian sensibilities.
What do you mean?

>>2862359

Either he means that the alleged descent of the Imams from a Sassanid princess made Shi'ism more palatable to Iranians, or that the Shi'ite method of succession to Muhammad was similar to the Sassanid succession

>>2862364
Yeah, I wasn't sure which he meant.

>>2862352
Five rials have been deposited in your bank account.

>>2861159
Erdogan doesn't want to turn Turkey into an Islamic theocracy, let alone restore Ottoman Empire. He is simply cynically exploiting semi-Islamist and neo-Ottomanist sentiments of the Turkish electorate in order to maintain his power and uses the Muslim Brotherhood as a useful tool to protect and advance Turkish national interests in the Middle East.

>>2861271
Iranians turned Shiism into an Iranian thing. Iran uses its position as the center of Shia Islam to promote Iranian culture, which is why many Arab Shias celebrate Iranian national holidays like Nowruz.

>>2862359
>>2862364
>>2862369
The remembrance of Ashura also corresponds 1:1 to some traditions for the remembrance of Siavash in Zoroastrian and broader Mazdaic, particularly central Asian folklore. Siavash is really pretty interchangable with Hussein really as a mythological figure.

Not to mention Piruz Nahavandi.

>>2861133
>I can't understand how it could move so far backwards in such a short amount of time like it did since the Islamic Revolution.

There isn't a way "forward" or "backward" in historiography. And even if you engaged it philosophically, the Revolution is a step forward in Heideggerian terms.

>>2863561
Piruz is pretty much loved regardless by Iranians because he is one of the earliest attested moments in Iranian history following the fall of the Sassanids as a resurgence in nationalism and ethnic identity/resistance to Arabization.

File: 1490890495401.png (91KB, 291x173px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 291x173px

>>2861133
>>2861165

>>2861133
Iran is doing quite well and is advancing rapidly in biotechnology and nuclear power. Why do you think the Israelis and Saudis are so afaraid of them? Iran, if it doesn't get cucked, will be a world power in 50 years.

It's been a lot of time since I've read "Persepolis", by Marjane Satrapi, but my understanding at the time was that the first revolutionaries were very stupid and naive true believers in the wonders of liberal democracy and people's power, so when the first democratic elections resulted in a massive victory for the religious nutjobs, they were left without reaction.

Something similar happened in Egypt a few years ago, when the President who was elected belonged to the Muslim Brotherhood, but then the military took care of it within a year. Maybe in Iranian situation, Iraqi invasion linked the military to the regime, increasing its chance of survival?

>>2861308
Most of the populace refused to become shia and were genocided or they fled to the gulf, and were replaced with Arab shia. Much like what is happening in Syria today.