Assuming that Hitler started gassing Jews since day 1, that makes

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dindu nuffin time

>all holocaust deaths were gassings
stopped reading there

>>2855722
>The official Jewish story is that 4,000,000 Jews were killed at Auschwitz alone.
The "official" story is that about 1 million Jews died at Auschwitz. Did you not read even the most basic things about the camp?

>>2855722
If only half a million jews had been killed during the holocaust, what would that change? Would that make the holocaust an acceptable act, and the nazis good people all along?

>>2855750
It'd show that the j00z are liers

>>2855758
I guess. Not sure exactly what that helps with, but I guess it would.

1. There were more camps than just Auschwitz. 2. Most that died at Auschwitz died of malnutrition, disease, or by gun shot. 3. You're a fag.

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>>2855722
You do know there were concentration camps set up before 1939. Dachau was opened in in March 33, months after Hitler came to power, although i think at first it was used to hold commies not jews

why do /pol/tards think all deaths were gassing

>>2855784
Cause muh jewish conspiracy muh greater Israel

>>2855722
Not every Jew was killed by gassing, not every victim was killed at Auschwitz, and not every victim was burned in ovens.

Kill yourself

>>2855846
Reddit please go

>>2855722

Gassings account for a minority of those killed.

>>2855846
k but not all deaths were gassing (most were starvation/disease)

>>2855722
Yep, only one could be gassed at a time, as was tradition. Also, since there was plenty of holocaust food, no one starved. Nazi were known for compassion too, so that means they never killed any of the jews themselves.

o/

>>2855722

>Every holocaust death was because of gas
>Nobody was shot
>Nobody was starved
>Nobody died from disease
>Only one person can be gassed at a time
>There was only 1 gas chamber available at any given moment

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>>2855722


> In Auschwitz, the most famous and biggest concentration camp, there are 15 crematoriums.
Wrong. There were 5 crematoria (Facilities for burning), with 29 ovens (heat goes in here), and 52 muffles (bodies go in here). See pic related.

> takes 1 hour to cremate a body using modern furnaces which operate at much higher temperatures than the traditional ovens at the camp.
It took less time in 1875, when they had even cruder furnaces than what they had at the camps. 25 minutes for a child's body and 50 for an adult beats the "modern" furnace all out. https://ia902607.us.archive.org/11/items/cremationdead00eassgoog/cremationdead00eassgoog.pdf (page 124-125). It turns out, reducing the bodies to ash as quickly as possible isn't exactly a priority in modern crematoria, and they do things like cool down the ovens and clean them out between incinerations. That doesn't take into account that denser portions of the body, like skull and thigh bones, take considerably longer to burn up than softer tissue; and given that they occupy a relatively small portion of body volume, it means that multiple burning is quite easy to do. Half burn one body, pull it out, toss on another one, throw it back in quickly, and you can burn almost twice as quickly. Multiple burnings were frequently done, and in fact were alluded to in the instructions for the use of the ovens.

>"As soon as the remains of the bodies have fallen from the chamotte grid to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled forward towards the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they can be left for a further twenty minutes to be fully consumed . . . In the meantime, further bodies can be introduced one after the other into the chambers." - J.C. Pressac, "Technique & Operation..." page 136

1/2

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>>2855722
>>2855930
>The elevators used to transport bodies were very slow and could only take up 7 bodies at a time with their weight capacity. However, for our greatest ally, we're going to assume that bodies were teleported instantly from chamber to oven. That means 15 Jews were gassed and burned every 1.2 hours. That comes out to exactly 300 Jews every 24 hours (Assuming the gassing and burning of Jews was happening every hour straight for 6 years on an uninterrupted basis)
First off, if we're just talking Auschwitz, only Krema 2 and 3 were located above ground level and didn't have elevators. They were the largest, but 1 2 and 5 could between them account for some 1,876 bodies between them.

Secondly, for your figures, I'll assume you're taking your numbesr from Mattogno, ATCFS, who is only talking about Krema 2, not Krema 3.

But, to rebut Mattogno, I offer pic related, taken from. http://imgur.com/a/725A7

> The official Jewish story is that 4,000,000 Jews were killed at Auschwitz alone.
No, it isn't. That is what is told in a Soviet propaganda sign that says that Auschwitz had 4 million inmates, not that they were all Jews and not even that they all died. The "official" story, insofar as there is an "official" story in the hands of decentralized academics, is that Auschwitz's death total is between 1.1 and 1.3 million.

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>>2855722

>>2855934
>but 1 2 and 5 could between them account for some 1,876 bodies a day.
Minor edit; that sentence came out wrong.

>>2855722
>1 hour and 20 minutes
>1.2 hours

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1.) Nobody claims that all were gassed. In fact, a minority were
2.) Order form in pic related shows the 4 ovens were capable of dealing with 1.2 million bodies a year

>stormnigger attempts to refute one of the most researched events in history
>doesn't even know the basics of said event
Every day.

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>>2855750
>The official Jewish story is that 4,000,000 Jews were killed at Auschwitz alone.

No, they claim 1.1 million total. Of which the majority were Jews

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp#Death_toll (surely jewpedia counts as "jewish claims" right?)

why does /pol/ lie all the time

You're just lying to make your false numbers appear reliable.

This thread is embarrassing. OP is a literal retard.

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You have to go back

I've reported this thread and yet it is still here

did the janitors just give up

>>2855722
But anon Jews (not forgetting of course all the non-Jewish victims) weren't just gassed. They were also beaten, shot, hanged, worked to death, starved, etc.

You're assuming all the bodies were burnt, but that isn't true. Bodies were also piled up and burnt outside of the crematoria.

There were roughly six million Jews killed, but many of this were killed in other camps or outside of camps altogether, especially by Einsatzgruppen aided by the Wehrmacht and police.

>The official Jewish story is that 4,000,000 Jews were killed at Auschwitz alone.

But that isn't true, historians say that probably between 1 and 1.5 million died in Auschwitz. 4 million was a very early but inaccurate Soviet estimate.

just stop and consider what the fuck you just said op. just re read what you said.

now think wtf what am i talking about cos plenty of non jews saw the camps look at the populations of jews in nazi controlled areas before and after occupation. srsly stop

>>2855722
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt82zlEOSUQ

Watch it all, they actually go into how Auschwitz alone could do 6 million at full capacity.

>Assuming that Hitler started gassing Jews since day 1

but thats wrong you uneducated american nigger

I dunno lets think, the rwandan genocide occured in about one month. 800000 people got slaughtered. 800000/30=26666 daily, 26666/24=1111 every HOUR!

The rwandan genocide clearly didn't happen, just look at that amount hahaha the tutsis are behind this

>>2855846

People being shot and starved to death in addition to gas chambers IS the narrative you dunce.

>>2857380
Now I want a "I wonder who could be behind this" pic with a tutsi to countershitpost stormniggers.

>>2857380
three months, we're looking at ~370 per hour
>>2857391
it would help to get your meme number right at least

>>2855722
Do you not understand that it's a religious belief? Questioning it is the western equivalent of drawing Muhammad.

>>2855722
>The official Jewish story is that 4,000,000 Jews were killed at Auschwitz alone.
Literally noone claims that.
>Assuming that Hitler started gassing Jews since day 1
Day 1 of what? His birth?

>>2855722
Look i dont like it when the kikes trot out muh shoah whenever they dont get their way but have u not heard of the ordsnyng polizei

Masochist math

>>2855859
>>2857386
But 'muh bombed supply lines'

SIX GORILLION!

Op is a faggot as usual

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> literal niggers with big stones and machetes can genocide people fast as fuck
> somehow germans aren't too efficient to do this with their superior technology

>Oy vey better believe the statistics the URSD gave!

Nobody accepts the 6 million figure nowadays. It's just a meme. The actual figure is under 1 million. Now, the question is why are the Nazis demonized for being the superpower who killed less people around those years? Belgium, Britain, the URSS they all killed more minorities than the Nazis.

>>2858409
Notice how Germans lose any sighs of supposed superiority when Jews are around.

>>2858472
Well, other than people like Van Pelt, Chris Browning, Lipstadt, and Evans. You know, the most renowned scholars about the holocaust.

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>>2858472
pathetic

>>2856857
I'm the poster you replied to, and I'm not OP. My point was that even heavily reduced numbers don't really change anything. Nazis are still evil, Jews were still being exterminated.

>>2855722
>Auschwitz was the only death camp
>Every Holocaust victim was sent to a camp
>Every victim was cremated
>The cremation process included the time taken to get the oven up to temperature and to cool it down so the remains can be recovered
>The cremations occurred in a closed anoxygenic environment so none was lost as smoke
>"Da Joos say it happened liek dis!"
>Provides no source

Anon please at least try to think about these things before you clutter up the catalog with them.

>>2857425
It's two months you roaring intellectual

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>>2855722
Don't waste your breath on this board, mate, the only responses you'll get to sound arguments is these predictable ones:

>>2855784
>>2855816
>>2855852
>>2856854


This forum is a liberal shithole and it literally has no place in 4chan. Why can't the mods just delete this place? /pol/ is pretty much talking history at this point so I don't see the need of having this shit.

What exactly impossible about burning 15 every 1.2 hours? You can burn 1000 at once and it will be enough.

>>2855722
>Jews were burned gently and with all ceremonies like with "modern methods"

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>>2859351
/his/ is a liberal safe space. if they were to go to /pol/ they'd have their arguments shredded like they always do

>>2859351
He says while ignoring actual rebuttals a la>>2855930
>>2855934
>>2855963

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>>2859374
>le merghizdzs holohoax
Will you kike-loving niggers ever realize that Nazis invented holohoax?

>>2859374
Damn guys we got btfo without a single argument. How will we ever recover?

What's the point of gas chambers anyway? Why not just let them starve to death? Gas chambers don't make any sense.

>>2859374
They get their arguments shredded even in here, as you can see how the only way they can reply to the OP is to call him a stormfag. You have any proof of the mods wanting to delete this shithole or is are they going to ban you from here if you post them?
>>2859383
Amateur. I'll just copy-paste this since the calculations have already been made:
An important data source is a chapter from Germar Rudolf's book "Dissecting the Holocaust". This chapter "The crematoria ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau" starts on page 373 and was written by (guest star) Carlo Mattogno.

Auschwitz-Birkenau had 4 crematoria: Krema II-III-IV-V. (Krema I was a relatively small installation in Auschwitz I which was not an alleged extermination camp. When the other Kremas came into operation, Krema I was shut down).

Capacity:
Krema II had 5 ovens with each 3 muffles. In operation: 166 days in 1943 and 266 days in 1944.
Total: 432 (days) x 15 (muffles) = 6,480 cremation days of 1 muffle.
Krema III also had 5 ovens of each 3 muffles. In operation: 190 days in 1943 and 266 days in 1944.
Total: 456 (days) x 15 (muffles) = 6,840 cremation days of 1 muffle.

Krema IV had 2 ovens of each 4 muffles. In operation: only 50 days in 1943 then it suffered damage beyond repair and was not used any longer.
Total: 50 (days) x 8 (muffles) = 400 cremation days of 1 muffle.

Krema V also had 2 ovens of 4 muffles. In operation: 82 days in 1943 and 144 days in 1944/45.
Total: 226 (days x 8 (muffles) = 1,808 cremation days of 1 muffle.
Grand total of one day operations of 1 muffle:
6,480 + 6,840 + 50 + 1,808 = 15,528 cremation days of 1 muffle.

The maximum number of corpses that could possibly have been cremated:
With 10 corpses a day per muffle the maximum number would have been...155,280
With 12 corpses a day per muffle (1/hr)186,336
With 14.4 corpses a day per muffle (1.2/hr)223,603

Simple mathematics..

>>2859419
Stop using /pol/'s memes, you absolute autist. Jesus you liberal faggots literally have zero originality.

>>2859462
/his/ and other liberals want to be us so bad it's funny

>>2859374
>>2859457
Lmao at this delusional retards. You get btfo with arguments every fucking time, but you're so delusional and brainwashed that you ignore everything that doesnt fit your narrative.

If the holocaust is real, why is there in most western countries a real inquisition about what can be said or not? Looks more like a cult than actual history to me. I don't see why there are laws about discussing the holocaust, if it did happen, it shouldn't fear investigation.

>>2859481
What doesn't fit my narrative, little degenerate? And I guess for you SJW's calling someone a stormfag or telling him to "go back to /pol" after he presents his argumentswhich you have no way to counter, is getting "BTFO"

You're absolutely delusional.

>>2859457
Holocaust controversies debunked this in one of their analyses and proved that Mattogno and Rudolf are liers deliberately ignoring certain documents (the most recent being about Aktion 1005).

>>2859429
> Why not just let them starve to death?
Because this is the same as confirming that you are communist, which was the big no-no for Adolf Hitlerwho came into power by being anti-commie.

>>2859494
It's illegal to deny holocaust in countries that suffered the most from German occupation.

>>2859429
To fill in the gaps between starvation, disease, and shootings.

>>2859514
>communism
>food
pick one mate xDDdDdddDDDDDdddDDdDD

>>2859514
And it takes too much time and can lead to outbreaks of epidemics and so on. A lot of Jews actually starved in ghettos.

>>2859510
This is basic mathematics, you dumb fuck. You can't refute mathematics. How can they be liars? Show me the documents which you're talking about. Who are these (((Holocaust controversies))), btw?

This post literally gave me cancer. I gotta go check myself now.

>>2859529
It's a blog written by people researching the holocaust.
>basic mathematics
And why do you think that only one person can be cremated per hour?

The real question, if Hitler wanted to kill Jews why he didn't kill them all. Makes no sense, man. Can holohoax be some sort of zionist false flag?

>>2859542
Do you even try to cremate person? Shit takes time.

Wait a minute. Hitler wanted the jews? Then why did he sign an agreement with jewish establishment in Palestine to move all the jews there? Looks more like Hitler was pro-zionist to me.

>>2859545
He killed all the ones he could get his hands on.

Not all Jews lived in occupied Europe, and not all nations collaborated.

>>2859542
Literally go in every crematorium and ask them how quickly you can burn a body (WITHOUT preparing, just burning the body to ashes) and see what they'll tell you, and that's with MODERN technology with ovens that can go to way higher degrees than the ones that Nazi Germany had. Unless you're trying to tell me that Nazi Germany had some kind of alien technology that allowed them to burn bodies in under 5 min, and have proof, I'll agree with you. But until then...

>>2855722
Gassing was not the primary means of murdering Jews in the Holocaust though, the vast majority were killed with good old bullets and put into mass graves in Eastern Europe, or died due to unchecked disease and overwork in the camps. Gassing was only for killing the undesirables who couldn't otherwise be used as slaves (children, weak individuals, elderly, sick, etc...)

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How about that? We build up a scientific research center, find out six billion ((volunteers)) and check, if we could replicate holocaust myth in practice or not. Should end all of the controversies, once and for all.

>>2859562
But you literally have zero proof of anything that you're saying. "Mass graves" is equivalent to "I don't know wtf I'm talking about so I'll claim that some Jews died in a ditch somewhere in Eastern Europe.

Anne Frank, probably the most famous Jew and one that (((Holocaust))) believers get much of their information one, is confirmed to have died of typhus. Why was she special?

>>2859552
According to German engineers it takes 20 minutes. Now imagine that most corpses were of children and women. Most of them spread very thin. According to Sonderkommando testimonies they usually put more than two bodies (3-4) into one muffle.

And there were also open pits where the bodies were burned. We even have a photographic evidence of them.

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>>2855722
>Stormfags are this retarded
Only 1 million Jews died in Auschwitz
Not all Jews were gassed

So you've done that nice calculation work (or maybe took it from a denier website, who knows) only to make yourself out to be an idiot who doesn't know shit about the Holocaust

>>2859561
You know that they rarely burned the bodies to ashes? Bones were often crushed.

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>>2855846
Judging by your OP, you don't even know what the narrative is you fucking retard.

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>>2855930
>>2855934
/POL/ BTFO

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>>2859575
>Only 1 million Jews died in Auschwitz
Wait a minute.

>>2859575
> knowing shit about works of fantasy
next you will test my epic monsters handbook knowledge lmao

>>2859571
She wasn't special. You don't know anything about the holocaust. Some Jews also died of typhus or were starved.

>>2859571
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumbula_massacre
25,000 Jews killed and buried in two days in Latvia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar
30,000 Jews killed and buried in one day in Kiev

Two of many examples of literal massacres of Jews in Eastern Europe, all shot and buried in mass graves.

>>2859578
What the fuck are you even trying to say now? They took the bones out of the ovens and then crushed them?

I don't even... Can't you just people stop being this retarded and fucking admit that there was no (((Holocaust))) and that Jews were enslaved, but not killed. They died from diseases and starvation as most people died during WWII. Nor are the numbers thrown around accurate. It shouldn't make the Jews special.

>>2859585
And now we reached the peak of idiocy again.

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>>2859351
>Ignoring facts
as expected of /pol/

>>2859591
Yes. You should know this if you actually studied the holocaust.

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>Jews ITT

>>2859529
>The Nazis insisted on cremating each person perfectly as if it were for a funeral

I'm not fixated on the number 6,000,000. Even if it were 3 million, 1 million, 500 thousand or 100 thousand, would it still not be a horrifying act of cruelty?

It seems to me that deniars argue that the numbers were inflated to justify the existence of Israel, but I'm pretty sure as little as 100,000 Jews being gassed, along with millions of others incarcerated, raped and brutalised would be more than enough to justify it.

Don't take me for a zionist because I'm not. Fabricating the existence of 6,000,000 people is frankly overkill when you consider how people freaked the fuck out over less than 10,000 Balkan Muslims being killed in the '90s

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>>2859529
>Thinks all 6,000,000 Jewish deaths are attributed to gassings
>Thinks he's smart

How can you ever be sure about numbers? It isn't like you can say that one cremated body is jew and not say for example... chimpanzee.

>>2855930
>>2855934
quality posts

>>2859637
We know how many people arrived in the camps and we don't have any information about them leaving these camps. We found their belongings, and we know from testimonies what happened to them.

>>2855846
>i like to question things and not take them as facts straight up
>but dont you dare do that to me!!

>>2859589
Then tell me about it. What do I not know? Why wasn't she gassed? Why?! Why weren't any of them gassed, at least proof that they were gassed. Why is that the only proof of Jews dying during WWII was mainly from typhus and starvation?

>>2859598
Stealing memes from /pol/ again. Typical Jewish bullshit.

>>2859590
These two examples again. Where's the proof? Russian/Jewish trial records? One witness that miraculously lived? Where? Babi Yar has been completely debunked.

>>2859610
Evidently you've studied the (((Holocaust))) and you know. So teach me.

>>2859621
Nobody is denying that Jews were enslaved, literally nobody. Not here, not on /pol/, not on stormfront because we have EVIDENCE of that. We DON'T have any evidence of any genocide going on during WWII and that's why we deny it. These things matter because we literally can't argue on this topic or say anything bad against the Jews just because of the supposed (((Holocaust))) that literally absolves them fron anything wrong or anything said against them.

>>2859634
But that's what you guys are saying in almost every thread, including this one. So since you're the expert here, how many were gassed? 2 million? 10 million? 11 billion? 33 trillion?

>>2859591

>They took the bones out of the ovens and then crushed them?

That's exactly what happened.

>>2859585
A frequent claim some of the less gifted holocaust deniers make, is to keep pointing us to the fact that once upon a time, there was a sign at Auschwitz saying 4 million had died there, and since the 1990s it has been reduced to 1.5 million. The particularly dumb deniers go on to add: "Well, if it has been 6 million Jews all along, how can it still be 6 million Jews if the death count quietly dropped by a staggering 2.5 million?"

Even the dimmest observer will have noticed that first of all the old sign said 4 million people, not 4 million Jews, and therefore does not directly attack the 6 million Jewish death toll of the holocaust at all. Secondly, the confusion stems from the fact that there are two quite separate - and completely different - interpretations of the four million figure in this context:

1) The Western one, which is the total number of Jews believed murdered in all camps - not just in Auschwitz. This figure was given to the International Military Tribunal (IMT) by Wilhelm Höttl:

"Approximately 4,000,000 Jews had been killed in the various concentration camps, while an additional 2,000,000 met death in other ways, the major part of whom were shot by operational squads of the Security Police during the campaign against Russia."

source: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/12-14-45.asp

...was accepted by the tribunal, and appears in the Judgement:

"Adolf Eichmann, who had been put in charge of this programme by Hitler, has estimated that the policy pursued resulted in the killing of 6,000,000 Jews, of which 4,000,000 were killed in the extermination institutions."

source: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judwarcr.asp

Cont

>>2859679

>Enslaving millions of people and killing a huge percentage of them isn't genocide

>>2859457
>literally ignoring contemporary documentation from the Germans about their own cremation capacity because it doesn't fit your narrative.
1,440/15=96 corpses per day per muffle, which means that if you have 15,528 cremation days per muffle, you have 1,490,688 bodies.

Simple mathematics.

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>>2859684
Notice that it says nothing at all about the number of deaths at Auschwitz.

2) The Soviet figure, which was the number of people (not specifically Jews!) the Soviet Union claimed were killed at Auschwitz alone. Their conclusion was based on an assessment of the capacity of the crematoria. It was submitted to the IMT in the Count Three Indictment, but NOT accepted. The Soviets, however, retained it for propaganda purposes, and it remained on the sign (and quoted by various western magazines and newspaper articles as well) until the regime collapsed in the early 90s. It was never really accepted by Western holocaust historians though, because it was based on the assumption that the Kremas functioned on a 100% duty cycle.

Proof that this figure was not accepted by Western historians is that as early as 1946, Nachman Blumental came to an informed guess that the number of Auschwitz victims ought to have been somewhere between 1.3 and 1.5 million. In the early 1950s, Gerald Reitlinger also arrived at a similar estimate of the number of victims on the basis of the number of deportees (see G. Reitlinger, "Die Endlösung", S. 522). Pre-eminent holocaust historian Raul Hilberg, who did important statistical analysis into the number of victims of the Holocaust, also supported the lower figure of 1 million (see: R.Hilberg, "Die Vernichtung der europäischen Juden", S. 1299).

Six million is the total number of Jews believed to have been killed in the Holocaust, by all means, and in all locations - not just the camps. It is based on a comparison of legitimate pre- and post-war census data, deportation lists, documentation, and cross-referencing and not by adding up the number of all deaths in all camps and then doing guesswork on the death toll of the Einsatzgruppen, death marches and so on. Though Raul Hilberg did offer a detailed tally of some 5.1 million Jewish victims, he never claimed this was it.

>>2859697
>>2859585
Upto 1.5 million is the number of people (not specifically Jews) western historians believe died at Auschwitz alone. Its earliest appearance, as far as I can tell, is March 25 1947, when the Central Jewish Historical Committee presented an expert report to the Krakow-Auschwitz trial, stating that the total killed there was 1,500,000 - not four million.

So when Poland freed itself from communism, and the museum staff changed the sign which displayed the Soviet claim of 4 million, to the western one of 1.5 million, they were simply changing a number they knew was wrong, to one they were confident was right. This explains why the six million Jewish total remained the same - because it was never based on four million Jews having been killed at Auschwitz to begin with! If you are going to insist that the Soviet figure of 4 million was part of the 6 million, then why not also insist on the Soviet figure of 2 million dead at Majdanek? 4 + 2 = 6. If these two figures were part of the 6 million, it would mean no Jew ever died in any other camp ever, but thats not what anyone back then (including Soviets!) claimed. The holocaust death toll in its entirety, is 6 million Jews, and millions of other non-Jews, whose number varies on how one defines the holocaust, e.g. whether you include all those Soviet prisoners of war who perished during internment, Soviet civilians who perished during the Siege of Leningrad, the persecution and murder of Roma and Sinti people, homosexuals, political opponents, those considered spies, Jehovah's Witnesses and other clergymen, etc., and for these purposes Wiesenthal's 11 million figure is a good approximation, though the number is likely higher.

>>2859679
Because not every Jew was gassed. There were other people that were gassed. Nazi machine wasn't perfect. And she wasn't that young, she could probably be put to work.

Babi Yar hasn't been debunked by anyone. We have German reports describing this whole massacre.

>>2859679
What would constitute proof of the Holocaust to you?

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>>2859679
Get the fuck back there!

>>2859351

>if you're not a nazi you're a gosh darn dirty liberal!

epic

http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

This link debunks every single argument against the holocaust, but nazis will ignore it because it proves them wrong.

>>2859743

The Holocaust is documented with much greater thoroughness than many other historical events. We have diaries, eyewitness testimony, letters, government documents, confessions from camp guards, aerial reconnaissance photographs, and other photographs taken from the ground. We even have the actual camps themselves. For literally any other historical event, this level of documentation would be considered unquestionable. We have far less documentation for events such as the Punic Wars.

>>2859691
What? How the fuck did you came up with 96 corpses per muffle?

>>2859689
Boo HOooOo, the Jews were the only one that were enslaved. They were not killed in large numbers, we have records of Himmler himself saying that he wants the death rate at the camps to stop and that Jews should be given quality food and washed regularly. I'm asking again, what makes the Jews more special than whites, asians, blacks, hispanics, arabs who were enslaved during history?

>>2859720
And it's obvious not all of them were gassed because none of them were gassed. By all accounts she WASN'T put to work anywhere, that's you just trying to fit things up. Post me these German records, if you please.

>>2855846
meanwhile your pushing your own narrative that has no basis in fact

>>2859494
It's illegal to question Soviet War crimes in Ukraine... Is that wrong? I only see people cry about the Holocaust laws but never the Armenian Genocide laws.

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>>2859683
HAHAHAHHAHAHA, are you serious?

>>2859790
>What? How the fuck did you came up with 96 corpses per muffle?
By dividing 1,440 by 15, as well as 768 by 8, which is what we have in this post, >>2855930 courtesy of the Bauleitung's own information.

>>2859374
lmao that poster has a huge persecution complex if he thinks a small board like /his/ is plotting to dismantle /pol/

>>2859780
That album redpilled me hard a few months back when I was a legit nazi

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>>2859790
>And it's obvious not all of them were gassed because none of them were gassed.
Yes, clearly those orders for gas tight doors were just for show.

>>2859790

Strawman argument. The Jews were the group that had the largest number of people enslaved/killed, but nobody ever says that it was only the Jews who were targeted and nobody else. Many Russian POW's were gassed as well, but I'm sure you'll try to deny that as well.

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>>2859780
>This link debunks every single argument against the holocaust, but nazis will ignore it because it proves them wrong.

No it doesn't, just read the comments. Your bullshit mind tricks don't work on me. There is a reason geniuses like Bobby Fischer denied the Holocaust. You simply don't have the capacity to truly dig deep enough. I've never met a person who watched the Greatest Story Never Told and believed in that myth afterwards. Never.

>>2859462
>WAAHHHHH STOP COPYING ME
you seem really triggered /pol/cuck, maybe you should retreat to your safespace if you can't handle the banter here.

>>2859817

>Literally citing a youtube conspiracy video as a source

>>2859501
>>>/pol/
you have to go back

>>2859780
>http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

This was the bluepill for me. I felt like an idiot knowing I was posting jpgs that made these exact arguments. Fuck /pol/ for making me think about Jews for like a year of my life.

>>2859812
What? Was the only thing pushing you towards that ideology holocaust denial? There are nazis that believe in the holocaust.

WHAT THE FUCK is even the point of denying the holocaust? Shouldn't you neo-nazi dick riders be glad that so many Jews were killed? You do hate them, right?

Fuck off, you degenerates are the ones that should be gassed. I don't see the point of arguing over the legitimacy of one of the most important and well-documented events in human history. Go back to stormfront.

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>>2859817
>No it doesn't, just read the comments.
I'm reading them
I don't see any rebuttal there
Just butthurt as is to be expected of /pol/weenies who have their fantasies destroyed

>I've never met a person who watched the Greatest Story Never Told and believed in that myth afterwards. Never.
I used to believe TGSNT until I started doing my own research and realized that it's complete bullshit. The truth is twisted and misrepresented to make Hitler look good.

>>2859826
The album also debunks many of the myths about Nazi Germany

And being on /his/ has helped me realize that Nazi Germany was an inefficient shithole that was doomed to collapse eventually

>>2859817
>There is a reason geniuses like Bobby Fischer denied the Holocaust.
>that appeal to authority
>assuming a chess prodigy knows anything else besides fucking chess.
neck yourself

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>Nazis claim Holocaust didn't happen
>ignore Goebbels' diaries
>ignore Jäger report
>ignore Himmler's speeches in Posen
>ignore Höfle Telegram
>ignore testimony of Sonderkommandos and Kapos

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>it's a /pol/ gets blown the fuck out and reverts to damage control mode thread

>>2859848
>assuming a chess prodigy knows anything else besides fucking chess.
Hell, some of his chess claims were dubious as all hell too, like his claim that Staunton was one of the top ten players of all time.

>>2859864
What thread are you reading? (((/his/torians))) get BTFO'd literally every thread and they pretend they don't. then last second they delete it so no one can see them get exposed.

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>>2855846

>>2859873
>I was just being ironic

Keep crying, bitch nigger.

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>>2859873
>(((/his/torians))) get BTFO'd literally every thread
Gonna have to provide an example, bud, because every time there's a holocaust thread here I see the opposite

>>2859804
Can you post a higher quality of that document or the source of it? The reverse-image search doesn't give anything back so I can't refute it without seeing what's in the document and why.

>>2859814
You have proof of Russian POW's being gassed? The Jews were not the largest group enslaved or killed, and that's if we even believe the 6 million number which is completely false.


>>2859804
I guess you didn't bother to read about how many days crematoriums actually ran for, did you?

>>2859819
"""Banter"""

>>2859823
/his/ is a /pol/ colony.

>>2859924
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/Leisung_der_Krematorien_in_24_Stunden_lt._Zenrralbauleitung_der_Waffen-SS.jpg/440px-Leisung_der_Krematorien_in_24_Stunden_lt._Zenrralbauleitung_der_Waffen-SS.jpg

>I guess you didn't bother to read about how many days crematoriums actually ran for, did you?
Yes, I did. I in fact used YOUR post >>2859457
to come up with a total of 15,528 cremation days.

>>2859924
>that's if we even believe the 6 million number which is completely false

Support your claims.

>>2859928
OF ONE MUFFLE, RETARD. NOT HOW MANY DAYS THE CREMATORIUMS ACTUALLY RAN FOR.

Austism everywhere.

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>>2855846
Fuck off back to your containment board.

>>2859946
Yes, of one muffle. Please learn to read. With 15,528 muffle-days, and 96 corpses per muffle per day, we have 15,528*96, which is just shy of 1.5 million.

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>>2859970

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>>2859970
>>2859974

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>>2859966
My god, are you just that retarded or are you just pretending? Do you know what a muffle is? Do you know what a crematorium is at all? Can you make the difference of how many days can a muffle run (15,528 days) and the actual days which the crematoriums ran (80, for example)

You guys are more retarded than I thought and that really is saying something.

>>2859977
>>2859974
>>2859970
Even with today's technology the 6 gorillian number would be impossible... How do you reconcile with this?

>>2859982
Support your claims.

>>2859982
dunno, maybe you could read the thread and have these questions answered
or keep shitposting like you /pol/cucks love to do

What is your ideal economic/social policy
http://www.strawpoll.me/13034542/r

>>2859989
>Nordic Welfare and Social Democracy aren't the same option

YOU HAD ONE JOB

>>2859994
just vote

>>2859980
>My god, are you just that retarded or are you just pretending?
Pot, meet kettle. While you're at it, go and actually read post >>2859457

>Total: 432 (days) x 15 (muffles) = 6,480 cremation days of 1 muffle.
>Total: 456 (days) x 15 (muffles) = 6,840 cremation days of 1 muffle.
>Total: 50 (days) x 8 (muffles) = 400 cremation days of 1 muffle.
>Total: 226 (days x 8 (muffles) = 1,808 cremation days of 1 muffle.
>6,480 + 6,840 + 50 + 1,808 = 15,528 cremation days of 1 muffle.

Then, he uses that grand capacity of Auschwitz by a hypothetical daily capacity of your average muffle to yield a body count range between 155-280-223,603. However, by actual German documentation, the daily capacity of a muffle was not 10-14.4 bodies, but 96 bodies. That leads you to a grand capacity of 1,490,688.

He's not saying there was only one muffle in operation for 15,528 days. This should be obvious from the fact that Auschwitz was not in fact running for 42 and a half years. He's saying that when you tally up all the crematoria together, you have 15,528 muffle-days. (Also ignoring the crematory capacity from Auschwitz 1, but whatever.)

And yes, I know what a muffle is, and what a crematorium is. I'm curious as to what your objection even is, since you clearly can't read at a basic level.

>>2859982
>He thinks all Jews were gassed
Retard

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>>2855846
>HITLER WAS A GOOD BOY HE DINDU NUFFIN

>>2860008
Give me that documentation and I'll reply to your post after I finish watching the match.

>>2860020
I already have, twice.>>2859928 >>2855930
Also, I like how you're retreating from your previous piece about the duration and number of muffles running. Good job there, idiot.

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>>2859790
Not that guy, but here. Einsatzgruppe C Operational Situation Report 101

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Why are stormies so eternally asspained?

>>2859982

>Rwandans manage to kill 800,000 people in less than 100 days using fucking machetes

>Germans with modern weapons and gas chambers couldn't possibly kill a lot of people quickly

>>2860294
If they weren't losers, they wouldn't have picked a loser ideology.

Why would Nazis bother spending any resources on killing the Jews? Wouldn't it be more simple and cost effective just to starve everyone?

>>2860359
The gassing was to fill the gaps in between starvation and disease.

Specifically, people who were considered dangerous to have in the camps, or people who were unable to work.

>>2860359
Because people who are facing imminent starvation tend to violently revolt. Unlike gassing or bullets, it's a relatively slow process, which leaves them time to say, flee to the countryside and start stealing food directly from farms that you badly need to requisition for your own food deficient country.

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>>2859982
obviously you must be right since no one anywhere ever did a genocide

>>2860359

Because Hitler literally believed that Jews were the only reason that Germany lost WW1. In his mind, killing as many Jews as possible was the only way to guarantee victory.

>>2860439
>Hitler literally believed that Jews were the only reason that Germany lost WW1

He was technically right about that though. Read about the Spartacus uprising, the German Revolution was done by 90% Jews.

>>2860477
Not to mention the Jewish boycott on German good's and how they attempted to cripple his economy. It didn't work, but they tried.

>>2860477
You mean, the 2 week uprising in 1919, against the government that rebelled against the Kaiser and long after the armistice? Did they use Jewish time traveling powers to make Germany lose the war with their actions in 1919?

You do realize that the Spartacist (Not sparatcus, he was guy who led a slave revolt against the Romans) uprising was a completely separate thing to the German Revolution?

>>2860480
Really, can you cite to anything beyond a newspaper article showing say, Jewish organizations organizing a boycott on German goods?

>>2860477

>German Revolution
>90% Jews

So 90% of Germany is Jewish?

>>2860477
The Spartacus uprising was a minor part of the German revolution. The revolution started with a sailor mutiny and the social democrats had already taken over when the Spartacists attemped (and failed) a coup - there's two month in-between the start of the mutiny and the Spartacist uprising. I'd really like to see some proof to jews being 90% of the revolutionaries when the revolution was a country-wide affair.

>>2860480
The boycott was launched due to the NSDAP's anti-semitic policies.

>>2860477
Not this shit again. Please, no. It's like you retards are immune to learning.

>>2855722
>Assuming that Hitler started gassing Jews since day 1, that makes for 3,153,600 minutes. 6,000,000 Jews killed during 3,153,600 minutes comes out to 1.9 Jews per minute. That means Hitler killed roughly 1 Jew every 30 seconds. (LOL) In Auschwitz, the most famous and biggest concentration camp, there are 15 crematoriums. According to Auschwitz survivors, Jews would go into the chamber, gassed for 15-20 minutes, then put into the oven. It takes 1 hour to cremate a body using modern furnaces which operate at much higher temperatures than the traditional ovens at the camp. However, lets say that the ovens were operating at a level that we see today, that means it would take 1 hour, 20 minutes to gas and burn 15 Jews assuming they were all burned simultaniously. (Disregarding the time it would take for the gas to empty the chamber for the bodies to be transported from the chamber to the oven.) The elevators used to transport bodies were very slow and could only take up 7 bodies at a time with their weight capacity. However, for our greatest ally, we're going to assume that bodies were teleported instantly from chamber to oven. That means 15 Jews were gassed and burned every 1.2 hours. That comes out to exactly 300 Jews every 24 hours (Assuming the gassing and burning of Jews was happening every hour straight for 6 years on an uninterrupted basis) the total # of killed jews would be 657,000 for those 6 years. The official Jewish story is that 4,000,000 Jews were killed at Auschwitz alone.

According to your logic, that means none of the purported number of soldiers who died during WWII actually did as their numbers were greater than 6 million.

Checkmate, retard.

>>2859924
>/his/ is a /pol/ colony.
it that's the case you're doing an awful job at it. sure you can zerg rush the board, but the people here who have actually read a fucking book and know something about the nuances of history will continue to BTFO your childish fantasies and cult worship. and even if you succeed, you'll have done nothing more than turn this board into a clone of /pol/, where you'll to circle jerk and autistically screech over the same tired old ideas ad infinitum. nothing of value will have been gained or lost.
>>2859924
>"""Banter"""
lmao you think this is some cosmic struggle for the heart and soul of mankind. On a fucking a Taiwanese rice-paper cartoon board? you're not a special snowflake you know that right. you're an irreplaceable /pol/ drone manufactured from their propaganda mill. you're the very definition of an useful idiot who lets his fears, hatreds and irrational conspiracies take control of him.

>>2859351
>/pol/ is pretty much talking history at this point

Hahahahahahahhaha you're deluded mate. 80% of pol is "x isn't white" or "trump btfo" or "trump winning"

pol is for larping faggots like yourself who know some fragments of history then absorb that into whatever narrative they've been force fed.

>>2859520
It's illegal in Australia mate. Explain that one.

>oh muh jewz, Nazis is Satan
>oh hey Communism! Call me!

Fucking bullshit. This is the reason people get passionate about the holocaust and the holohoax: you can't even talk about it!

>>2860562
That's because Australia is a boring PC hellhole.

>banned small tits in porn
>banned female ejaculation in porn
>banned airsoft
>banned all the violent video games
>banned all the guns

Australia holds the world record for cultural transformation from good country into shithole.

>>2859684
>>2859697
>>2859703
Stormniggers will not ever refute this but will continue to claim they are irrefutable

>>2860562
People talk about the Holocaust. They just dislike talking with deniers because deniers tend to dismiss evidence as part of a conspiracy, or to misrepresent their opponents position by, for instance, making up a shitty theory that serious historians don't defend (ex: all jews were gassed) then shutting it down (ex: it was hard to gas that many) and patting themselves on the back.

>>2860585
>Australia is a boring PC hellhole
Head of nail, meet hammer

>>2860595
I think it's weird that the phrase "Holocaust denier" is well known. I don't think it's wrong to talk specifics, but to deny that the Nazis did loads of terrible stuff is crazy.

>>2860020
really long match, huh?

>>2855750
No but it would suggest that disease played a larger role than previously thought.

>>2855930
>tfw Nazis used "scrapers" to move around half-incenered burnt skulls and bones (and a good chunk of those were of infants and children)
>tfw imagine the smell
>tfw imagine to look in the oven, see a rib cage and realize that it's the ribcage of a 3 years old

How is that easier than just shooting them for Nazi troops? That's nightmare material.

>>2862432
Most of the work was done by inmates themselves

>>2862087
>victory in Europe will come to you
>do it again Bomber Harris
do you think recent bombing at ariana grande was inspired by BASED HARRY?

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>>2860489
>Really, can you cite to anything beyond a newspaper article showing say, Jewish organizations organizing a boycott on German goods?
>>2860505
>The boycott was launched due to the NSDAP's anti-semitic policies.
so were there boycotts or were there not?

>>2862478
There was a boycott movement as an answer to the policies against the jews in Germany. https://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%203231.pdf

>>2862432
that was the job of the sonderkommando, a group of inmates tasked with running the crematoria

>>2862432
The Nazis used inmate labor, known as Sonderkommandos, to do the dirty work. That also explains the "MUH POOLS MUH ZOOS MUH MOVIE THEATERS" arguments that denialtards like to use so often as well. Those amenities were reserved only for guards and privileged prisoners who were granted those amenities due to their assistance in disposing of remains.

>>2862482
so the boycotts were definitely a thing good to know

>>2859799
What do you think is more reasonable, heating an oven to the point where it can incinerate bones, which would take a fuckload of energy, or getting a few prisoners with brooms and a compactor to take care of the mess?

>>2859817
Imagine being so retarded you have to cite imgur comments as a source

>>2855741
This fallacy is pretty much the only way they keep this conspiracy alive.

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>>2859591
>>2859799
>Instead of contributing anything worthwhile to the dialogue I'll reply with skepticism

>>2859780
>nazis will ignore it because it proves them wrong
No, they'll ignore it because the person who wrote it is a smug cunt that takes every opportunity to berate someone for denying the holocaust. I'm sure the total girth of it could be marked down if he held back from preaching every other sentence.

>>2859351
/his/ is just a functional /pol/. You're delusional if you think /pol/ fills the niche this board does.

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>>2859806
He could also have his victim complex so bad that he believes that a small ethnic minority carefully steers geopolitical events. Oh right, he's retarded.

>>2858409
Rwandans had mobs throughout the country killing their neighbours, Germans had special task forces comprised of a few thousand.

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>>2859924
>/his/ is a /pol/ colony

>>2856849
>2.) Order form in pic related shows the 4 ovens were capable of dealing with 1.2 million bodies a year

>300,000 bodies per oven per year
>821 bodies per oven per day
>34 bodies per oven per hour
>1 body per oven every 2 minutes

So, this is the power of German engineering?

>>2862478
It doesn't matter, because the boycotts should suit your explanation of Hitler's persecution of Jews. The boycott was a reaction against it, not a cause for it. Hitler had already written Mein Kampf and taken power by the boycotts.

>>2862546
>rounding up and killing unarmed civilians is hard

Why do really blatant false flags keep popping up all over 4chan?

I just want one sane halocaust denier - denier to agree on:

1. Denying the right to ask questions is a huge red flag and deprivation of a basic human right.
2. Testimonials from inmates are biased and prone to misinformation. (Masturbation machines, Night by Elie Wiesel, etc.)
3. How WW2 is taught (history in general really) in schools is hugely biased and does nothing, but portray the Axis powers as Evil supervillians instead as humans trying to do what they thought was best for their countries, like literally everyone else in history.
4. Relying on the (probably false) sterotype of gas chambers has done more harm to the halocaust's story than good. As it really just detracts from all the other war crimes perpetuated on both sides and has found itself cemented (on both sides of the argument) in people's minds that "All Jews were gassed."
5. That just because you say it's a (((conspiracy))) doesn't mean that people didn't have every opportunity, motivation, and or means to fabricate falsehoods. We'll never know the true facts and everything, including "hard evidence" has to be taken with a grain of salt. Trillions of dollars, entire countries, and the Holy Land itself was up for grabs during the war. It's naive to think people wouldn't do everything possible to cement their piece of pie.

>>2862597
1 and 2 are obviously true.

3 is a half truth because the Nazis thought they were doing what was right, but the direct consequences were far more severe than other ideologies and groups.

4 isn'the true. Anyone educated even remotely knows that Jews were killed by labor and shooting. The gas chambers mared that the Holocaust was both an intentional and industrialized genocide. It epitomizes the movement. Also, acknowledging war crimes should always happen when possible, and people for the most part do. Near everyone knows abut the atomic bomb, Japanese POW camps, and Stalin's famines. Concentration camps were practically far worse than their contemporaries, however.

>We'll never know the true facts and everything, including "hard evidence" has to be taken with a grain of salt.
Why are you on a history board? You straight up deny facts. Yes, Jews used the Holocaust to secure the Israeli state. However, that does not mean that Jews wanted the Holocaust or that they had to alter the truth to reach their goals.

>>2862597
>1
Nobody prohibits a discussion, the countriesthat have laws pertaining to the Holocaust prohibit the denial of the Holocaust of approval of the Holocaust.

>2
There's documents and material evidence out there that proves that the Holocaust was real. And really, there were millions of people that were affected by it.

>3
This is really more a question of individual countries' school system since there is no one unified system in place. As far as the education I received goes, we were taught about the crimes of all totalitarian regimes of the 20th century.

>4
The Holocaust was not just gassing and I haven't really seen that being claimed anywhere. It included genocide against jews, gypsies, homosexuals, Slavs, Balts, political dissidents, Jehovas witnesses, as well as members of resistance movements and civilians all over Europe. This was carried out through deportation in concentration camps - where some were murdered while others worked to death or sucumbing to disease - or simply through shooting. The Holocaust also encompasses human experimentation, forced resettlement and assimilation policies.

>5
This would be far more acceptable were we discussing a historical event that happened a thousand years ago, but the Holocaust was recorded and it was witnessed by a large number of people only seventy years ago. Sure, everything about it is not clear but there is enough evidence to prove that the current statements regarding the Holocaust are close to truth.

>>2859351
Epic post. Now please follow your leader.

>>2862620
Holocaust deniers are the lowest form of troll. Its almost like relativist defending Einsteins assertions as if they were facts.
I think the important issues are the ones not often discussed. The driving factors. The things which contributed to such attrocities.
Social studies ignores these important factors and effectivly programs us to think with emotions linked to symbolism. Nazi bad, jew good.
The reduction of things in these emotive terms is a covert newspeak.
social studies books and course material effectively making the white male persona the arch villians of the world. Which is sad because its mostly true that the world is effectively run by old white dudes who are evil.

The point is that people of wizdom who reflect on these things search for the causes not the effects.
What happens if the lesson is not how we feel about 6 million people dieing but how not to come to that place again?

>>2862609
>Why are you on a history board? You straight up deny facts.

"Facts" are subjective in history. There is evidence or ni evidence, there is no such thing as a fact in undocumented history. Even if it is documented, there is plenty of room for error and or fabrication. That's all I'm saying.

>>2862620
>This is really more a question of individual countries' school system

True, I'm American, and went to a pretty good school. However, everything was always second to the discussion of gas chambers and Mengele, we never even learned about typhus, I had to hear it from /pol/ tier images. I just feel like if you walked up to an average person in the street and asked; "How were the Jews killed in the halocaust?", they would tell you Jews were killed by gas chambers in Auschwitz. Homosexuals and Gypsies were mentioned perhaps once, and we only ever dedicated time to Germany and Japan's crimes, never the Allies' and to this day I forget that Italy was even involved in WW2.

And forget about Germans having any moral reasons for starting the war, protecting ethnic Germans and trying to rebuild after the economic rape of your country post WW1? Conveniently left out. Nazi's = Bad was truely the take away message meant to be conveyed. "History is written by the winners" shouldn't be the standard in which we teach children about the world.

I feel this is a pretty similar story for most people in the U.S. sadly.

>>2859351
Have a (you)

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>>2863987

>they would tell you Jews were killed by gas chambers in Auschwitz

As an American I was never once told that gas was the only cause of death during the Holocaust. The fact that large numbers of Holocaust victims were shot, starved, or died from disease or exhaustion was definitely mentioned.

>we only ever dedicated time to Germany and Japan's crimes, never the Allies

And what "war crimes" did the allies commit that you feel should be addressed? The overwhelming majority of civilian deaths during the war were inflicted upon Allied nations. Axis nations suffered far less civilian damage, and yes that includes Japan.

>And forget about Germans having any moral reasons for starting the war

Indeed, forget about such a thing because it simply doesn't exist. There is simply no moral justification for what Hitler and his inner circle tried to do.

>>2859789

The Battle of Blore Heath is recorded in exactly one contemporary English source, by a guy who wasn't there, who based his knowledge on gossip and wrote it down 5-6 years later.

Yet no one denies that it happened or suggests that it was anything more than a bar room brawl pumped up by a senile old man...

>>2860359

Because as we all know, the Germans were incredibly efficient in WW2 and never wasted time and resources on pointless stuff.

>>2863987
>And forget about Germans having any moral reasons for starting the war, protecting ethnic Germans and trying to rebuild after the economic rape of your country post WW1?
Holocaust deniers are so fucking stupid. Bravo, you fell for /pol/ memes.

>>2863987
>"Facts" are subjective in history. There is evidence or ni evidence, there is no such thing as a fact in undocumented history. Even if it is documented, there is plenty of room for error and or fabrication.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, stormfags are postmodernists.

>>2862597

>Denying the right to ask questions is a huge red flag and deprivation of a basic human right.

But you're not "asking questions." Holocaust is a material fact, and to deny a material fact is simply fraud. Fraud is illegal. Therefore, I don't see anything wrong with criminalizing an activity which inherently fraudulent.

>Testimonials from inmates are biased and prone to misinformation

In court, eyewitness testimony is typically regarded as the lowest form of evidence for this exact reason. However, in the case of the Holocaust, we have shitloads of corroborating evidence to augment and verify the eyewitness testimony.

>portray the Axis powers as Evil supervillians instead as humans trying to do what they thought was best for their countries

People are judged by their results, not by their intentions.

>Relying on the (probably false) sterotype of gas chambers has done more harm to the halocaust's story than good

There is not a single shred of doubt that gas chambers were used to murder huge numbers of prisoners in many of the various concentration camps.

>That just because you say it's a (((conspiracy))) doesn't mean that people didn't have every opportunity, motivation, and or means to fabricate falsehoods.

You have no right to complain about lies because you are currently lying right now. Any form of Holocaust denial is a lie.

>>2863987

>"Facts" are subjective in history.

No, they aren't. Facts are concrete things. They are not open to interpretation.

>there is no such thing as a fact in undocumented history.

The Holocaust is very well documented.

>Even if it is documented, there is plenty of room for error and or fabrication.

Which is why it is important to look for corroborating evidence. Fortunately, we have shitloads of corroborating evidence for the Holocaust.

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>>2855722
Idk about all that, but the holocaust could be marketed as one of the best weight loss diets ever.

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>>2859834
This. I've never understood the logic of "hitler was right, but he dindu nuffin"

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>>2864136
>You have no right to complain about lies because you are currently lying right now. Any form of Holocaust denial is a lie.

>>2864148
>Fortunately, we have shitloads of corroborating evidence for the Holocaust.
mind you hollywood documentaries are not evidence

>>2864281
He's not wrong.

>>2864314
from jewish POV maybe

>>2864321
Frankly, subjectivity is one of the big problems in modern day society.

Some ideas are inherently better than others.

This kind of shit is why you have little kids learning about native American bedtime stories instead of the Civil War.

>>2864321

*factual point of view*

>>2862099
This. And these retards seem to just forget entirely about the ghettos. I'm not saying that the more common numbers are 100% accurate, but these guys really seem to think they're on to something monumental.

>>2864351
>hey kids, I have this nice picture book about a buffalo or I could read this book on the bloodiest war in US history. which do you want?

>>2864053
>And what "war crimes" did the allies commit that you feel should be addressed?

Rape, murder, thievery, just like everyone else. Dropping Nukes on civilians to not forget the fucking obvious.

>>2864104
>Nazis are literally Satan. Any other implication hurts my head and my feelings : ( .

>>2864148
>No, they aren't. Facts are concrete things. They are not open to interpretation.

>Historians are never wrong.
>Cover ups can't exist.
>Trust (((me.)))

Naivete is a hell of a drug.

>>2864564

Holocaust denial is a cover up attempt.

>>2864136
>Belief is fraud.
>Any form of Holocaust denial is a lie.

Holy 1984 Batman.
>We were always at war with Eastasia.

>>2864564
>believing mountains of evidence and peer reviewed research is naive, believing neonazi propaganda pictures is being redpilled
>everything is subjective and we can't know anything with certainty, but somehow I am able to imply with certainty that are is a spooky conspiracy distorting everything

>>2864608
Yes, it's a lie to deny something that happened.

>>2864608
>Holy 1984 Batman.
Orwell was fighting the exact kind of revisionism you are doing, retard. I don't know how you can quote "We were always at war with Eastasia" and not realize that it's the exact equivalent of "the holocaust never happened".

>>2864564
But the atom bombs never happened.

The Jews just want you to believe that they did.

The pictures they use are actually of the London East End after the Blitz.

Take the red pill.

>>2864608

If I tell you that the Battle of Gettysburg never happened, then that is obviously a lie. The Holocaust denial is no different.

>>2859743
Nothing. It's literally impossible to "prove the Holocaust is real" to a full blown denier. All actual evidence will just be claimed as zionist propaganda and Jewish forgery or ignored.

>>2864591
>Opinion

>>2864609
>(((Evidence))) with no way to prove it except testimony from half starved and tortured prisoners and captured German war prisoners trying to escape punishment.

Nuremberg trial was a farce and was a way for people to further justify increased war reperations from Germany.

>>2864615
>The halocaust happened.

Bad and evil stuff happned, sure. But it was no halocaust. All evidence points to if the Germans wanted to exterminate the Jews, they would and could have much more easily and with less strain than how modern history portrays.

>>2864626
>Questioning Big Brother means you're Big Brother.

Who actually has the means to revise history? Governments and wealthy conspirators or random people on the internet?

>>2859799
They still do that today too.
Look up what a Cremulator is.

>>2864676
>(((Evidence)))
Sure, ignore all evidence that contradicts your retarded beliefs and pretend to be some kind of martyr when people call you a liar.

>Who actually has the means to revise history?
In any kind of scientific way? The academia.

>>2864564

This is completely stupid. Nobody ever says that Japan wasn't nuked. It is perhaps the single most well known fact about the Pacific theatre.

>>2864690
Most evidence for the halocaust, as in the clear and undoubted intent for the destruction of the Jews comes from reports with no way to varify their authenticity. They also have an odd habbit of "being discovered" when questions start to arise.

>The academia.

Who controls the education controls the history. Who controls the academia? Who gives them their material to research? Who allows them to research it?

I'm not going to trust what can easily be manipulated, especially when there was every reason to manipulate it.

>>2864676

If anything, the Nuremberg trials were exceptionally fair.

>>2864723

>peer review research is nothing but lies
>neo-Nazis websites are the only legit sources

>>2864723
>all historians and the entirety of academia are part of the conspiracy
Every time.

>>2864734
>If you question anything you're a Nazi.

This is why actual Neo Nazis exist. You're not going to convince anyone when you just reinforce the idea that questioning something is some rebellious act.

>>2864739
>Historians have never revised history to further their own goals.
Every time.

>>2864734
>peer reviewed
>thank you Dr. Snyder for all of this evidence exposing the Nazis for the brutal killers they they are. It's nice to see someone so invested in promoting Jewish interests that they married a Jewess who is a Jewish studies professor, you're practically one of us which means anything your books will always be a (((New York Times))) bestseller. And since you're so "anti-fascist" here is a (((Hannah Arendt Prize))), the same one we gave to Pussy Riot the following year. It's academics like you that keep the goyim informed!

>>2864755
>repeat literal neonazi propaganda
>get butthurt when people call you a neonazi

>>2864760
>this information is propaganda because I say it is so.

>>2864760
>All murderers breath oxygen.
>Oxygen makes people murderers!

>>2864756
Oh no, one of the leading scholars on an event that had a tremendous impact on the Jews is Jewish! Must be a conspiracy!
I guess I have to stop believing in facts now. Thanks for the redpill, fellow /pol/ack!

>>2864723
Serious question, just curious: Do you have a university degree?

>>2864775
I bet you're one of those people who trusts a used car salesman.

>>2864756
Good criticism of the content of the book, stormfag. Come back when you have something other than muh conspiracy parenthesis meme. And what's your excuse for the thousands of others historians?
I'm still waiting for a stormfag explanation as to why so many of the jews in their conspiracies are partial jews or married to non jews or antisemites. Aren't they supposed to hate whites?

>>2864775
He's not even jewish, he has a jewish spouse, which means we can dismiss his entire book.

>>2864780
Not the other Anon, but I have one. Software Engineer. What's yours? Let me guess - Social Arts?

>>2864790
I bet you're one of those people who trusts jaypegs made by strangers on the Internet.

Daily reminder:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
http://4archive.org/board/his/thread/509405
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

>>2864780
>Look at me I have validation from a (((university))).

So do I, but still. Doesn't mean anything.

>>2864805
>Projecting.

>>2864791
>The Leuchter report isn't viable because he had the wrong degree!
>Who cares about Snyder's background, read his book!

All these double standards anon.

>>2864816
No, the Leuchter report isn't viable for the enormous amounts of methodological errors in it, like how he overlooks that a delousing chamber would in fact have needed more gas than an execution chamber, owing to how much more resistant lice are to cyanide than humans are. Or how if you leave the buildings alone in the rain for about 40 years, that can contaminate the site, and you should be looking for samples as sheltered from the elements as you can find. Of course, it might have been easier to do that if he got permission to take samples, instead of just running along like a jackass with a scraping knife and stealing stuff when unobserved.

>>2864816
Nice imaginary quotes, stormfag. I must be easy to find double standards in others when you can just hallucinate what you want them to say. The leuchter report is shit because he objectively didn't know what test to do, the conditions of the gassings, nor how to interpret the results, and this is the result of him having an arts degree and not knowing shit about chemistry. You still haven't been able to criticize anything in snyder's book.

>>2855722
Considering the humbling and spirit breaking nature of genocide, I'd say that jews are not human, were not genocided or were not genocided enough. Not a single claim is exclusive.

>>2864836
>if you leave the buildings alone in the rain for about 40 years, that can contaminate the site

So then how do (((real))) researchers make their claims then? No one seems to ask that. Was there no contamination after the Soviets rolled through everything?

>>2864851
You can look it up yourself, but among other things, they went for areas that would be out of the rain.

Fuck, you can literally look it up on wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuchter_report#cite_note-Anatomy563-9

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/introduction.html

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/post-leuchter.report

>Was there no contamination after the Soviets rolled through everything?
Yes, there was. And you know, after the SS dynamited most of the camp. That's why forensics is difficult and they don't just grab random idiots to do it.

>>2864851
>We tried to take samples -- if at all possible -- from the places best sheltered and least exposed to rainfall, including also as far as possible -- fragments of the upper parts of the chambers (hydrogen cyanide is lighter than air) and also of the concrete floors, with which the gas from the spilled Zyklon B came into contract at rather high concentrations.
>The significance of rainfall in the process of elution of these combinations out of the ruin walls is exemplified by Crematorium II in the Birkenau camp, where we have found the highest (mean) concentrations of cyanide compounds, because many fragments of the gas chamber were to a great degree protected from precipitation.

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>>2859351
>Say blatantly wrong things
>Cry about "muh liberal shithole" when your shitty arguments gets shut down

REALLY makes me think

>>2864867
>and also of the concrete floors, with which the gas from the spilled Zyklon B came into contract at rather high concentrations.

>Proof they find bugspray during a pestilence outbreak. With no means on how or why it got there.

This is why deniers exist, you find "proof" with no way to verify the implications.

>>2859780
If /pol/estinians could reading comprehension this would cause mass suicides. Damn.

>>2864756
Does /pol/ think putting ((())) around every source that triggers them actually rebukes what it says?

>>2864899
Its an easy Jewish identifier.

>>2859817
>I've never met a person who watched the Greatest Story Never Told and believed in that myth afterwards.

Because no one who is not already committed to the belief will watch a propaganda film that goes on for six houts.

>>2864885
>leuchter claims the gas chambers didn't have evidence of zyklon b
>a forensic research group does a study
>they do find evidence
>b-b-b-but they were for delousing
You're right, that's why deniers exist, because they can rationalize any contradicting evidence. Delousing chambers existed apart from gas chambers, and are actually used as control samples in the forensic studies.

>>2864919
Luechter's report, which was actually done by a unbiased contracted third party whobwas unaware of the tests found the Zyklon B or rather the Prussic cyanide, the issue was they found levels too low for any actual deaths to take place.

>>2864927
Except Leuchter don't know anything about chemistry so how could he tell if these levels were too low for deaths? He didn't even mention that hydrogen cyanide is more deadly to humans than to lice. Which is one of the reasons why lower concentration can be found in walls of former gas chambers.

>>2864927
Your post seems to imply that that is the conclusion of the unbiased third party. It isn't.

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Who gives a fuck if he killed 6 million or not. It clearly wasn't enough whatever happened. They still run the media and international finance and are actively working towards the destruction of white nations. Nothing changes the fact that they are still an evil people just like they were back then.

>>2864952
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_banks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_financial_services_companies_by_revenue

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>>2864965
interesting that you don't even try to refute the media claim since that one is obviously true. I don't doubt there are many large banks not owned by Jews. However when it comes to the most important financial institution of all, the federal reserve, you will find that it's been ran by Jews for decades.

>>2858522
>the most successful ones are the ones who play ball!
Yeah, because the ones who go against the official story get lots of recognition and money and cooperation from european authorities for their research

>>2862099
I remember learning that disease killed like half tho...

In school

>>2864919
>>2864919
>>they do find evidence

And it could have been planted, forged, or have a reasonable explanation. Finding traces of poison means nothing when that poison is a common bug spray.

>>2864986
That's wrong, though. Most Jews were killed by gassing and shooting.

>>2864816
I'm curious, how the fuck does the fact that Leuchter basically bullshitted his entire career in engineering AND doesn't have a formal education in any rigorous STEM field whatsoever not ring any bells for you as to his credibility? How dedicated are you to this ideologue that you're still putting your trust into someone while completely aware that he has shoddy credentials?

>>2864985
But all of them have gone against the "official story" (which official story?) at one time or another. Especially Browning. Furthermore, Lipstadt and Browning are American and don't get money or particular cooperation from European authorities.

>>2865003
I think his point was that everyone attacks deniers his, but criticizing anyone elses is seen as racist or some crazy conspiracy theory.

>>2864978
I don't try to refute the media claim because it's not as easy as posting two links, and it's not worth the effort because I know how stormfags work and you'll just ignore any contradicting evidence. And you certainly went fast from "jews control international finance" to jew don't control shit b-b-b-but the fed chairman is a jew so I can still rationalize myself into thinking they control everything.

>>2864952
Here we see the /pol/beard, in its death throes, as it admits the holocaust indeed happened but laments that it didn't go far enough.

Note that this is how any holocaust denial thread ends if you use simple logic/facts.

ITT: stormcunts have absolutely no idea how even a modern, respectful cremation is performed and presumably think all those urns are full of intact but disarticulated skeletons that have just had the flesh burned away.

>>2864996
>there is no evidence, holohaox!
>here's a bunch of evidence
>fake! all fake!
Every time.

>>2865015
>Everyone is /pol/
>Everyone is Nazi
>Disagreements are an attack.

Who's the conspiracy nut now?

>>2865021
>Can't prove otherwise.

Thanks for proving my point.

>>2858348
exactly lol i love how people do no research about what led up to the holocaust... whatsoever.

>>2865019
They also forget that an oven can fit many more babies/children in it than a full grown adult, and that the majority of gassing victims were women & children as men were worked to death.

well, not forget. They're either too stupid to realize this or are in denial about it.

>>2865033
I think you're unfamiliar with the concept of the burden of proof. As the one making the affirmative claim, namely that the presented evidence is fake, it's your responsibility to show that it's not what it purports to be.

Upthread, we have claims about the veracity of nazi documentation claiming a 96 bodies per day per muffle cremation capacity. Why don't you start with "debunking" those?

>>2865011
But it isn't a valid criticism to point out that someone has a Jewish spouse. That says nothing about their intellectual qualifications in the way that those facts clearly exhibit Leuchter's lack thereof.

>>2865033
>you can't prove that the mountains of evidence regarding the holocaust aren't fake, therefore I can believe whatever I want
/pol/tard postmodernism strikes again

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>>2865033
Pic related is never wrong. It becomes so wounded when it is named

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>>2865014
The media claim is not disputable. The amount of control Jews have over the American media is ridiculously disproportionate for a group that is 2-3 percent of the total population. Also Their politics lobbies such as AIPAC are some of the most powerful in the world. It's no secret that The interests of Israel are what dictates most of Americas foreign policy in the Middle East. I'm not saying they totally dominate places like China, but as far as the US goes Jews are basically in complete control.

>>2865060
>Also Their politics lobbies such as AIPAC are some of the most powerful in the world
Interesting claim you have there. Can you actually demonstrate a causal link between AIPAC activity and U.S. policy in the middle-east?

>The interests of Israel are what dictates most of Americas foreign policy in the Middle East.
You mean like the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq?

>>2865047
>Burden of proof

Always the argument made when people can't just say "I don't know." I ask a question, you respond with "lel you prove it." It just deflects fron the question instead of discussing it.

>>2865048
Except it shows a huge potential bias.
>Jews can't be criticised!
Wrong.

>>2865053
Now you get me. It can't be answered, so I can believe what I want. If you agree that evidence can be faked, we're on the same page. You just choose to believe it while I am sceptical.

>>2865078
>I am sceptical
You aren't. You believe every revisionist garbage. Even their idiotic propaganda films like The Greatest Meme Never Told.

>>2865078
>Always the argument made when people can't just say "I don't know." I ask a question, you respond with "lel you prove it." It just deflects fron the question instead of discussing it.
I do know. I've presented the documents. Why do YOU think they're fake?

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The holocaust is the only historical event where eye witness accounts are not allowed.

>>2865078
>Now you get me. It can't be answered, so I can believe what I want. If you agree that evidence can be faked, we're on the same page. You just choose to believe it while I am sceptical.
Yes, I do understand you, and no, we're not on the same page. It is logically possible that all evidence is faked, the same way it is logically possible that I live in the matrix or that australia doesn't actually exist. But the analytical possibility of the proposition doesn't imply that they are as rational or valid as their opposites. They would imply such levels of conspiracy that they are equivalent to solipsism, which to me is just mental masturbation. Your argument is basically "b-b-but what if nothing is real". On the other hand, the people that assume this position usually have no trouble being able to magically know shit when it is convenient for them, so they're not even epistemologically consistent.

>>2865078
>Except it shows a huge potential bias.
And that's all that it shows - speculation on what ifs.
>his wife is a jew, he could be in on it to!
>hypothetically, if he's in on it, it gives a huge blow to his credibility!
And pondering possibilities does not give one single, solid criticism against the intellectual merit of his work.

>>2865060
The US has a gigantic lobbying problem, of which AIPAC is but a grain of sand. Look up the amount spent on lobbying by truly significant groups compared to them. And no, Israel doesn't determine your foreign policy, but like it or not they are your main allies in a strategic region where most countries hate you.

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Recovering /pol/ addict reading Evola to recover. This thread shames me for who I used to be.

>>2865118
>The first amendment is a BAD thing.

>>2865075
Israel usually tends to support the ousting of secular dictators in favor of radical islamic groups. they did it with saddam and are currently doing it with Assad. AIPAC's stated purpose is to influence the executive branch of the united states so I dont see what there is to explain about that. Consider that AIPAC is always addressed by both political candidates before a presidential election to receive support and funding and that recently despite not being able to agree on basically anything else, all 100 US senators stepped up and told the UN to quit bullying Israel. You would have to be blind to not notice any of this.

>>2865142
>democracy, aka government of the people
>the rich elite can pay to pass laws
Choose one.

>>2865131
Is he any good? What did you read? Could you summarize some of the main points he makes? I am pretty interested.

>>2865150
No, I don't want your rambling conspiracy theories. Show me a connection between AIPAC lobbying for something and U.S. governmental policy shifting for that reason and primarily that reason. The American Forest and Paper Association endorsed Trump back in 2016. Trump, while not exactly an environmentalist, has not changed the Obama regulations involving timber harvesting, even though you could see an industrial use in such. Are you saying that the AFaPA controls the government? What proof do you have about AIPAC that can't be used to make similar claims about the AFaPA?

>>2865166
>I have never read Valeo vs Buckley.
How exactly do you plan on going on about insulating politicans from the wrong people but not the right people, however you, as Grand Arbiter of Democracy, decide who are the right and wrong people to access the legislature?

>>2865166
kek lolololol gold

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>>2865170
Julius Evola rejected both fascism and nat soc as being imperfect forms of a divine State centered around knowledgeable persons. Extremely odd monarchist. But he keeps me sane because he rejects both violence and politics.

>>2865182
I don't know what you mean by "access the legislature".

>>2865205
Reading recommendations?

>>2865131
It's okay anon, I'm a rehabilitated /pol/tard too. I went there out of despair and anger during a dark period in my life and eventually cut it out completely when I got better. Coming to /his/ really helps deprogram your mind from /pol/ shit, since people actually fight back against the stormbeards and shred their regurgitated neo-Nazi diarrhea to pieces.

>>2865212
Revolt against the Modern World
Ride the Tiger (Read Revolt first. Googling it will give you a coy with a hundred page essay from a specialist that details Evola s thoughts and development over time.)
Men Among the Ruins
Do keep an open mind while reading him. As he would have wanted.

>>2865210
>I don't know what you mean by "access the legislature".
The term is simple enough. There is no fundamental difference between a lobbyist and someone writing a letter to his or her congressmen, other than that of scale; the "lobbyist" represents a more powerful and more organized constituency, with correspondingly greater ability to affect the individual legislator's future.

If you don't think lobbying is a thing that should be allowed, why should writing to your congressman saying you'll vote against him in re-election if he doesn't vote along the policy you want be allowed? Or if it should be, where do you draw the line?

>>2865226
Anon, I'm not complaining about opinions being voiced, I'm complaining about money being spent.

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>>2864755

There is no need to "convince" anybody. Literally anybody who actually matters understands why it is important to remember the Holocaust and prevent it from ever happening again.

>>2865233
I don't know why I find that pic so hilarious. He sounds like an 8 year old that just came back from camping or something.

>>2865224
Thx mang. I'm currently starting to read Junger, specifically "Eumeswil" and "Glass Bees" (haven't started yet, though). I kinda have a soft spot for people who feel lost in the time they're living in, I don't have to agree with them.

>>2865232
Really? When was the last time you saw a lobbyist directly giving money to a congressman or a senator? It's all in campaign contributions or tours of facilities or advertising on an issue the government man is interested in. On a smaller scale, all of those things are done by private citizens as well. Valeo vs Buckley was about private giving of campaign contributions. Should the giving of a 20 dollars to a hopeful president's bid be actionable?

>>2860045
First off your math is wrong. The 1440 number doesn't add up. Second, the ovens were not operated longer than 12 hours a day. To burn one corpse would take at least one hour with this equipment, hence the maximum would have been close to 12 corpses a day (this is actually well established. The way you came with that 96 corpses number is completely wrong and inacurrate. Also, you're literally not taking into account for how LONG they ran and how MANY of them round for any given day. What you're implying with that number is that all of them ran for 24/7 and burned around 4 corpses per hour.

Here's on the bodies: In the session of 5th March 1946 the Soviet interrogator wanted to know:[27]
"How many bodies were cremated per hour at Auschwitz?
Prüfer (builder of the crematorium) responded:
"In a crematory with 5 ovens and 15 muffles, fifteen bodies were cremated."

SS Kurt Prufer, told the officers of SMERSH (according to documents found in the Moscow archives) that only one body at a time could be cremated per muffle and that the cremation time took 60 minutes, and that they tried to cremate 2 bodies at a time; but the temperature inside the muffle went so high that it damaged the oven.

Match is over, we won. Couldn't care less about replying to you after that.