I have three questions about the Mongols. How were the Mongols

Momentum and pillaging

Once one dies the other dies with it, gengis khan's death destroyed all unity and with it, all accumulated momentum

>>2843525
Arguably one of the worst things that has ever happened in the history of mankind.

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>>2843525
> How were the Mongols able to inflict such damage on Europe?
What damage? Europe was the least affected part of Eurasia.

>>2843525
>acked the wide open terrain where their style worked best, lacked any siege equipment or proper auxiliaries during most battles fighting mostly on horseback.

This is not true. They weren't just retards in horses. They fought on horseback when that was the best tactic (most of the time), but they were extremely adaptable. They used all sorts of siege tactics when needed.

>>2843561
>What damage?
The parts they did hit (Hungary, Croatia, etc) they hit pretty hard.

>>2843570
I guess I fell for a meme then.

>>2843570
This is mostly true. The Mongols captured a lot of Chinese and forced them to either teach them how to make or forced them to build siege engines. Also, being an extremely good mounted archer was like having cheat codes on flat land during the time period. They btfo almost every army they came against until the Mamluks. I'm not sure how well they would've done in the forest of Europe, but I'm certainly glad they stopped at Hungary or I would probably be part Mongol rape baby.

>How were the Mongols able to inflict such damage on Europe?
The Mongols had been fighting majority-infantry armies for decades while Europeans had little experience fighting all-cavalry armies on that scale which explains massive defeats like Mohi.

>What benefits if any did the Mongols bring?
Gunpowder is probably the most pivotal technology brought by the Mongols.

>How well unified were they?
As long as the Mongol state supported a well organized army that brought fortune in conquest the far flung lesser warlords would continue to lend support for a share of the booty. After the Mongol empire had expanded over 1000s of miles and their conquests ground to a halt this system broke down and they focussed on internal power struggles and other goals in life.

>>2843561
>What damage? Europe was the least affected part of Eurasia.
>not India
hmm

>>2843561

Work on your reading comprehension mate. Just because somewhere else there was more damage, doesn't mean there was none in Europe.

>>2843525
What decisive defeats
Gunpowder had already got into England before the mongols and India was the prime giver of it
When people say Silk Road they mean one unified state owning the Silk Road so you didn't have to keep on paying tariffs
After they completely fell apart Russian princes collected tax for them and then swiftly stole all their clients, hence why Muscovy was seen as the 'uniter' of Russia

>>2843976
>When people say Silk Road they mean one unified state owning the Silk Road so you didn't have to keep on paying tariffs

completely wrong

>>2843976
T. Vasili Ivanovich

>>2843525
> lacked any siege equipment or proper auxiliaries during most battles fighting mostly on horseback

Stop 'learning' from mems, you idiot.

Mongols weren't just nothing but guys on horseback with no siege engines or infantry.

>>2843525
>How were the Mongols able to inflict such damage on Europe?
You mean Huns right? Mongols crushed on first country that organized proper defense. Huns sacked Rome and plundered Europe.

>>2843997
>have to pay one tariff to get through Mongolia territory
>pay twenty tariffs to get through twenty statelets
>>2844004
T. Cenk Ugyur
Actually British (White)

>>2843976
>When people say Silk Road they mean one unified state owning the Silk Road so you didn't have to keep on paying tariffs

No?

>>2844061
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road

>state of the British education system

>>2843525
>lacked any siege equipment

Didn't the Mongols have extensive knowledge of sieges, thanks to their previous campaigns in China and the Middle East?

>>2844057
This.

In terms of damaging Europe the Huns and the Magyars were much more devastating hordes than the Mongols.

>>2844108
>>2844057
Oh boy here comes that fucking Hungarian with his "muh castles"

Why are we discussing Finland on /his/?

>>2844121
I literally have no idea what you're talking about, mongols lost in their own game of cavalry spam to the better players.

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>>2844121
>It's pop /his/torian gets his memes BTFO episode
I've yet to see that guy's muh castles theory to be disproven

>>2843625
>They btfo almost every army they came against until the Mamluks
Reminder that Ain jalut was a battle against a Mongol holding force and not the army proper because berke became a Muslim and got asshurt at hulagu for raping Baghdad and started a civil war in the middle of a campaign

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>>2844223
They even out numbered the Mongols. Notice how it wasn't Hulagu at the battlefield but just a guy in charge of one Tumen.

I made a list of Mongol human achievements in the last anti-Mongol thread, but I lost it.

Suffice it to say they gave us the world as we know it.

>>2844257
Found it
>the compass
>the cannon
>gunpowder
>the number 0
>chariots
>planes
>submarines
>cruiseliners
>bestiality
>bad dragon dildos (made with real silk fur)
>the iPhone
>the ICBM

>>2843525
steppechads were so based

>>2843976
>Gunpowder had already got into England before the mongols and India was the prime giver of it
what gave you that idea

>>2844228
>trusting european sources
Ah yes. And I suppose Alexander really did face off against a million Persian soldiers. Great choice.

>>2844275
t. Mussulman

>>2844274
A book I read on gunpowder by an actual historian

>>2844275
>mudslime sources say [citations needed]
l m a o

>>2844183
You mean apart from the "impossible" to take castles in Syria and the behemoth fortifications in China that fell?

>>2843873
Moghuls =/= Mongols

>>2844288
book?

>>2844183
>The Chinese city of Zhongdu had 18 miles of walls 40 feet high and 50 feet thick, with three lines of moats. The Mongols began besieging it in spring of 1214; multiple assaults failed. The siege didn't succeed until over a year later, in summer of 1215, when the governor of the city gave up hope and took poison. By then the citizens were eating corpses.

>Further south, the city of Xiangyang withstood siege for three years, thanks to both extensive stores and occasional resupply from across the Han River. It wasn't defeated until 1271, when the Mongols put together a siege train of high-powered counterweight trebuchets to break the walls. (In 1291, counterweight trebuchets enabled the Muslims to conquer the double-wall fortified Crusader city of Acre in a month and a half.)

>Now, European fortifications of the same period were no worse in simple stoneworking skill -- the donjon of Vincennes (still standing!) goes up 150 feet, although its walls are only 10 feet thick.

>But the raw mass of Chinese fortifications utterly exceeds what a European monarch could afford or justify at this period. In Europe of that time, an impressive castle plan would be something like Edward I's Beaumaris, a rectangle about 500 feet on a side with two concentric walls. Compare that to Zhongdu above. Likewise, long-but-successful sieges in Europe were measured in months, not years.
>So the Mongols needed a much larger siege train, and far more troops, and hence far more supplies, as well as much
greater persistence, to take the Chinese fortified cities than was required for European fortifications in this period.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3qq1t7/mongol_invasion_of_1285_proofs_europe_was_not_so/cwhs2wj

>>2844375
there is a difference between sieging a city and sieging one hundred castles. Don't forget that European power structures were decentralized and feudalistic, taking one castle and overthrowing a single lord won't actually have that large an impact.

There is also the terrain and geography to consider, European castles were often in ridiculously hard to reach locations.

>>2844344
Weapons and warfare in renaissance europe
Bert a hall

>>2844375
But the mongols got btfo in Hungary after fortification efforts. Pretty much every time the Mongols entered European lands after first contact they got BTFO.

Not sure where the Mongol meme comes from, they routinely got their ass handed to them even at their strongest points such as the second invasion of Hungary. Hungary wasn't even that strong of a Kingdom at the time anyways, they built a half hundred new castles and the mongols crumbled and were slaughtered.

>>2845494
Hungary is half across the continent from their Center of Power in Mongolia/Northern China

>>2844329
are you retarded?

>>2845509

Wrong. Their Mongol neighbors were right next door. What are steppes? They got so utterly btfo, their entire people became a footnote in history that was hardly remembered after even a hundred years.

>>2844265
>Inter-Continental Ballistic Mongol
Seems legit

>>2845558
Land travel is always more expensive then Sea travel, Even flat barren land.

>>2845558
>They got so utterly btfo, their entire people became a footnote in history that was hardly remembered after even a hundred years.
Are we talking about the Mongols or Hungary here?

>>2845494
>But the mongols got btfo in Hungary after fortification efforts. Pretty much every time the Mongols entered European lands after first contact they got BTFO.
They didn't get BTFO, they inflicted heavy damage on the kingdoms in the area before fucking off to fight over who would inherit the empire. Many victories like the one in Croatia were bitter ones because they mostly ignored the fortifications and ransacked the countryside.

>>2845558
>They got so utterly btfo
Yeah by themselves after splitting into warring factions.

Damage to Europe -> Khan actually wanted peaceful relations with the west. 500 merchants were sent to the west border, but were captured and imprisoned by Islamic ruler. Instead of releasing those merchant, he killed them. Khan got pissed and the ruler with all his kingdom were lost -> that made Mongols to travel west, but not so much organized as their expansion to the south and east (failure during Japan invasion is known)
It were diverse clans, a fallout of original Khan empire, that entered Europe on their own whim. As such - they're less organized and the damage/ransacking was mediocre.

Only benefit I can think of : behave nicely to a lion pub, because when you won't, he will get back to you as a lion and erase your from history.

Unity? It was power over unity. As mongols "ran" through different states, enemy soldiers could join or die. That also explains the "fell apart". The threat itself is questionable, different Asian writings tell a bit different story. But mostly all agree on deep hatred against the Mongolians. That would probably explain not few clans rather escaping to the west. (similar to exiled vikings, who did sail to the west)
Interesting side-story.. dying Khan asked his successor(s) to never build stone cities. They did anyway - all those cities turned into graves of their Mongolian inhabitants.

>>2845593
>Land travel is always more expensive than sea travel
With all the costs and dangers of buying ship(s) and navigating stormy oceans using antique charts, how do you figure thats less costly than just outfitting a caravan and going on the silk road?

>>2845613
>Interesting side-story.. dying Khan asked his successor(s) to never build stone cities. They did anyway - all those cities turned into graves of their Mongolian inhabitants.
They should have just combined many Yurts to make a Yurt Castle.

>>2845593

Mongol nomadic hordes were literally neighbors to Hungary at the time. The Nogai/golden hordes were crushed easily by fucking Lithuania of all countries anon. It defeats the whole "Me mongol me strong" when you need an entire world united to defeat some minor European kings.

>>2845633
yurts allowed this two quick solutions :
1) disease - you run form it (what usually would work for many deadly diseases that spread in stone-cities much faster)
2) besieging avoidance. "lord, huge revenge-seeking army is approaching our gates"... GTFO (possible when you pack your yurt, not when when in huge castle/city... unless it is Moscow and want play Napoleon a nice prank)

>>2845664
Only the leadership of the Nogai/Golden Horde would be actual Mongols the rest would just be random Turks/Cumens they conquered.

>>2845699
anon
those are the same fucking people as the mongols
and the religious difference would be little to none since it was a Muslim state.

>>2845664
>.The Nogai/golden hordes were crushed easily by fucking Lithuania of all countries anon.
What time period are you referring to? During the 1259 invasion the Mongols plundered and left, they didn't get crushed. After that Lithuania began to grow in power and would score many successes against the Golden Horde. Lithuania was no joke during that period.

>iit: people who derive personal self worth from historical bullshit by treating history like sportsball

>>2845613
>Interesting side-story.. dying Khan asked his successor(s) to never build stone cities. They did anyway - all those cities turned into graves of their Mongolian inhabitants.
Can you elaborate?

>>2845664
>to defeat some minor European kings.
Lol

>>2845873
>e-european king strong!
>m-mongol man weak...

>>2844329
Mughals are persianized mongols, specifically the Chagatai khanate and direct lineage from Genghis Khan.