>"Eastern Roman Empire". >This is very difficult

>>2818599
Why are british people so autistic when it comes to the word "empire"?

>>2818599
Is this legit?

Fucking rek'd byzantineboos

>Eastern
>Roman
>Empire

To be honest, I never understood why people who made fun of HRE accepted the ERE as Rome.
Those were just a few backstabbing Greeks who couldn't pay their debts, just like today

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reeeee delete this

look he even has a square shield

>>2818599
Anglo historians are to history like dubstep is to music, it's low tier cancerous garbage but somehow it's everywhere.

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>>2819145
>To be honest, I never understood why people who made fun of HRE accepted the ERE as Rome.
The (eastern) Roman Empire carried on Roman social and political traditions, its citizens called themselves Romans, it was referred to as the Roman Empire by other polities of the day. And, the most important bit, it was the Roman state itself.

The Holy Roman Empire doesn't have any relation to Rome or Romans at all besides the name.

>>2819164
I am pretty sure that people in the west called it 'Greek Empire', and the Byzantines called spoke Greek.
I also doubt that an average ERE peasant felt as a Roman.

>>2819173
>I also doubt that an average ERE peasant felt as a Roman.
Did the average WRE peasant feel like one?

>>2819173
There was an island in Greece that still considered itself Roman when a Greek force landed on it during the war against Turkey. For the average peasant, not much changed after the fall of the WRE

>>2819176
If he lived close to Rome, then probably yes

>>2819173
But as far as those in it were concerned it was very much Roman, since the days of Hadrian greekness had been considered more or less the same as Romanness

>>2819186
So you exclude 99% of Roman empire.

>>2819173
>I am pretty sure that people in the west called it 'Greek Empire',
A very small minority.
>I also doubt that an average ERE peasant felt as a Roman.
Every piece of Byzantine literature before 1204 and most after 1204 that refer to the national identity of the people there refer to themselves and their countrymen as Romans. We don't know what the average peasant thought but given that everyone else called themselves Roman it's not a stretch to assume that the peasants called themselves Romans as well.

There was no "Greek" identity for the better part of the middle ages. They were Romans.

>>2819185
>Ayo papadopulos u be sayin we was sum sort of roman and ζhhiεεεεttt

Byzantines=/=Roman

How hard is that to understand

>>2819195
>Every piece of Byzantine literature before 1204 and most after 1204 that refer to the national identity of the people there refer to themselves and their countrymen as Romans.
Because calling themselves Romans meant a lot of prestige. Same why HRE claimed to be the Roman Empire.

>>2819188
Yes. After all, Roman Empire was nothing more than a bunch of legions getting tribute from the local peasant population + the city of Rome

>>2819201
The Greek speaking peoples of the Aegean were romans
>>2819208
Because it's not true

>>2819195
Nah after the macedonian dynasty they decided to larp as hellenes instead of roman

>>2819212
>Same why HRE claimed to be the Roman Empire.
That's actually the problem though, they didn't. The Byzantines called themselves Romans, the inhabitants of the HRE didn't.

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>>2819212
>Roman Empire was nothing more than a bunch of legions getting tribute from the local peasant population + the city of Rome

>>2819221
Those Empires existed way before nationalism
The idea was that the ruler wears the crown of Roman Empire, not that his subjects are Romans

So can you guys point me to a specific point in time when ERE stops being Roman Empire?

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WE

>>2819228
Constantine

Christianity

>>2819224
you seem to disagree?

>>2819231
So what about the western empire? Is the united state led by Julian in 361 not Rome?

>>2819232
Yes

>>2819156
He writes some good shit though

>>2819231
Can you elaborate why?

>>2819236
>Virtually all the taxes and rents raised by the imperial government were spent on the military: about 80% of the imperial budget in c. 150.[17]
Roman Empire wasn't a national state in the current meaning of the word.
It was more like a bunch of mafia goons getting protection money from peasants who just wanted to be left alone

>>2819243
The provinces were fully integrated into the Empire politically, economically and culturally. There was a civilian beuracracy that was expected to provide certain functions to the populace

>>2819254
how can you keep up a civilian civilian bureaucracy without any spending?

>>2819257
>80%
That's 20% left to other things

>>2819260
like building huge monuments in rome

>>2819212
Rome wasn't even the capital since Constantine.

>>2819267
Most would go to the bureaucracy though, building projects became less popular over time

>>2819228
After the death of Justinian

>>2819277
Cool, then who paid for the Roman roads?

>>2819293
That all falls under the bureaucracy

>>2819299
and with what money do you fully integrate the provinces culturally and economically?
How do you even economically integrate Subsistence farmers?

>>2818666
It isn't

>>2819326
The provinces traded goods between each other. For example, Rome received grain from Sicily, Africa and Egypt. Dacian and Hispanic gold mines were important sources for the mints, and the traders from Persia and China would come through Syria.

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>>2818599
>using Gibbon to argue that the Catholic Church was somehow the descendant of Rome
Get rid of that Cathcuck shit and this is a 10/10 post.

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>>2819293
Legions actually built them. When PAX ROMANA set in, the legions were often used for building projects such as aqueducts and roads, close to where they were stationed.

>>2819293
>B-BUT MUH ROADS
Roman Empire is the first anarcho-capitalist Empire. Suck it nerd.

>>2819535
Post proof of such a thing

>>2819548
>constant NAP violations
>roads
>One entity holds ultimate political power

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>>2818666
>Fucking rek'd
Not at all. Everything Gibbon said in the OP is jibberish. He talks about the ERE with highschool-tier talking points. Bet he said "booya" a lot too.
>But when thinking of "Eastern", you think about how Rome was located in the West. You think about all those who succeeded Rome in the West. You think about how the Catholic Church continued Roman political system in the West.
The capital was officially moved to Constantinople and the Emperor governed from there. Meanwhile muh west and Rome in particular was either Byzantine turf or barbarian free for all.
>"Roman" it is called, despite the fact that this "Roman" body is standing on Greece, a land so harsh and poor that it took the Legions of Rome 66 years to set foot in it. A Greek-speaking and non-Roman Catholic people, yes, but still calling themselves "Roman".
"They r Greeks lol. Muh roman catholicism."
Still, the west fell and fractured and was governed by barbarians while the emperor and the unbroken, eastern part of the Empire was chilling right there. Also.
>An Anglo playing the ethnicity card, shitting on the Greeks as he talks about Roman culture.
And last.
>"Empire". Now you fell on the ground, laughing so hard you can't breathe. An "Empire", a body made of dozens of pretenders to the throne, all fighting for themselves, giving strange names to their position, full of Despots or Autokrators.
Riiiight, okay. I guess the Catholic Germanic Federation is more to your liking huh? "There are usurpers in Byz. history lol" as if succession hadn't historically been a bloody thing in Roman history.
It was the Eastern part of the Empire, it was civilly and culturally Roman and was Governed by the Roman Emperor. Now what's he gonna say?
>An "Empire" who will stay divided and eventually ruled by Turks , while the great powers of Europe create colonies all around the world.
I see that he's pulled his dick out and he's swinging it around since he's out of shit to pull out his ass.

>>2819560
If you byzzieboos would just stop being eternally butthurt for once you maybe you would realize that this is a bait thread. Gibbons never say anything like op mentioned in his book

The Byzantine Empire was Roman in the same way the Golden Horde and Crimean Khanate were Mongol, and in the same way the Mughals were Timurid.

A succesor state with a different ethnicity.

They were Romans while hating and being butthurt about Latins/Franks.

>>2819228
Muslim invasions + Heraclius changing the official language to Greek