What were some badass facts about China? I realized today that

The great famine from 1959-1962 is the worst famine in human history killing over 30 million people. It was almost entirely manmade due to Mao's autism.

>wants to industrialize china so it can catch up with the western nations
>China doesn't really have the capital to follow the soviet model of industrialization, few people have technical experience
>an entire generation of intellectuals have been disenfranchised due to the anti-rightist campaign where Mao asked intellectuals and students to speak up about areas where the government wasn't working, then a few months later arrested everyone who did as a counter revolutionary
>there were a lot of Soviet industrial experts helping to build factories in China but when Khrushchev was trying to mend fences with Washington Mao attacked Taiwan without warning him, this led to the sino-soviet split and all the soviets were withdrawn

>so to industrialize Mao came up with the brilliant idea that he'd use people power and have the chinese people smelt steel in backyard furnaces
>all chinese in the country (about 90% of the population) were living in communes, and every commune had all of its men working day and night to keep forges operational
>to get the raw metal for the forges any scrap iron was used, all tools were smelted as well
>china was massively deforested to keep the forges burning
>since the people working the forges had no technical knowhow about smelting all the iron they made was completely worthless and cracked as soon as it was heated
>now we have no tools and all the men are manning the forges instead of farming, awesome
>meanwhile the atmosphere of utopianism had overtaken local party leaders who were competing with one another to produce the most grain
>when grain production fell instead of grew the leaders simply lied and reported they had met their impossibly high goals and the government responded accordingly by taking such a large amount of grain that there wasn't enough to feed people, millions died

>in previous eras when there was famine people would leave their homelands and go begging in other parts of china that weren't effected by the famine
>however now people were forced to stay on their communes so they had to stay and starve to death
>in late 1959 Peng Dehuai, the minister of defense attended the Lushan conference (a conference for discussing whether or not the great leap forward was working) and spoke openly about how clearly this plan had failed and it needed to be stopped
>Mao had been planning on stepping back from the great leap forward but as if feeling overly defensive for having been criticized he purged Peng (despite the two being old friends) and decided not to change the great leap forward at all. If Mao had listened to him millions might have lived.

>numerous insane efforts were made to reverse the crop failure like close planting, which was where plants of the same type are planted closely together, the idea being that the same species wouldn't compete with itself. In reality however it did and yields were lower.
>another method was deep planting where soil from feet below the surface was dug up and crops were planted there, this also reduced yields as topsoil has all the nutrients

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here's a quote from the book wild swans, which was a memoir about this period

>In Chengdu, the monthly food ration for each adult was reduced to 19 pounds of rice, 3.5 ounces of cooking off, and 3- 5 ounces of meat, when there was any.
>Scarcely anything else was available, not even cabbage.
>Many people were afflicted by edema, a condition in which fluid accumulates under the skin because of malnutrition. The patient turns yellow and swells up. The most popular remedy was eating chlorella, which was supposed to be rich in protein. Chlorella fed on human urine, so people stopped going to the toilet and peed into spittoons instead, then dropped the chlorella seeds in; they grew into something looking like green fish roe in a couple of days, and were scooped out of the urine, washed, and cooked with rice. They were truly disgusting to eat, but did reduce the swelling.

The Chinese never came up with the idea of crop rotation due to the way their agricultural system was structured, so when they started mass agriculture they just kept growing. And growing. And growing. China is slowly desertifying and the CCP knows it. China is already dependent on American food exports and The Party shivers at the thought of relying on them further. China is eyeing up Siberia in hopes of expanding there to get more land for agriculture, leading to Russina-Chinese border tension. Expect to see plenty of US-Russian friendship in the future as the paper dragon starts to crumple an-

Oh, you meant historically. The Chinese have been using the same writing system for 2500+ years and it allows people who speak completely different languages to understand each other perfectly via writing due to its logographic structure.

This is great stuff.

China is really interesting

>>2806858
There's also the part where all of China's big cities grew where there were towns because of the great farmland, and eventually those cities expanded over the top of the farmland. Now all the best places to grow crops have been paved over.

>>2806858
t. gordon chang

China's modern history is fucking insane

>The 1938 Yellow River flood (Chinese: 花园口决堤事件; pinyin: huāyuán kǒu juédī shìjiàn, literally "Huayuankou embankment breach incident") was a flood created by the Nationalist Government in central China during the early stage of the Second Sino-Japanese War in an attempt to halt the rapid advance of Japanese forces. It has been called the "largest act of environmental warfare in history."

>Following the onset of the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937, the Imperial Japanese Army marched rapidly into the heart of Chinese territory. By June 1938, the Japanese had control of all of North China. On June 6, they captured Kaifeng, the capital of Henan, and threatened to take over Zhengzhou, the junction of the arterial Pinghan and Longhai Railways. Japanese success here would have directly endangered the major cities of Wuhan and Xi'an.

>To stop further Japanese advances into western and southern China, Chiang Kai-shek, at the suggestion of Chen Guofu, determined to open up the dikes on the Yellow River near Zhengzhou. The original plan was to destroy the dike at Zhaokou, but due to difficulties at that location, the dike at Huayuankou, on the south bank, was destroyed on June 5 and June 7, with waters flooding into Henan, Anhui, and Jiangsu. The floods covered and destroyed thousands of square kilometers of farmland and shifted the mouth of the Yellow River hundreds of kilometers to the south. Thousands of villages were inundated or destroyed and several million villagers driven from their homes and made refugees. An official Kuomintang post-war commission estimated that 800,000 drowned, which may be an underestimate.

>>2806965
The Japanese soldiers weren't even in the area so they weren't affected.The flooding just slowed them down a bit.

I also don't know much about China and would like to start learning. Would I find the Chinese emperors as entertaining to read about as the Roman emperors?

>>2806965
>>2806972
I'm intrigued; did China ever BTFO the Japs for this? Or were they eternally humiliated

>>2806993
Nope, the Japs got off easily for WWII. They don't talk much about war crimes like Nanking, Unit 731, or comfort women in their schools. The Nanking Massacre is sometimes referred to as the "Nanking incident" and is only a footnote.

They spend a lot of time talking about the two atom bombs though, and they victimize themselves by making America the perpetrator by putting the embargo against them, thus justifying the Pearl harbor strike. They are aware of Japan's occupation of Korea and Taiwan but they mostly see colonialism as a good thing that improved these nations.

>>2806993
China suffers from eternal humiliation hence the bad blood towards the Japanese even now. Meanwhile, Germany has one of the highest Jewish population increases.

>>2807015
The difference is Germany takes full responsibility for what they did and they put a lot of effort into educating people about it. You can get arrested for Holocaust denial or displaying a swastika.
Japanese schools don't have to teach the full extent of Japan's involvement in WWII or the war crimes. People are allowed to deny they ever happened and even set up organizations that protest against the teaching of it, to use whitewashed textbooks or refer to Korean women as "whores" in public.

>>2806988
>Liu Zeye adored incest so much that he summoned his aunt Liu Yingmei into the palace to satisfy his sexual desires, and he then killed Yingmei's husband He Mai who couldn't stand the humiliation and conspired to overthrow him.
>Liu also kept overt incestuous relationship with his sister Liu Chuyu in the palace, When Chuyu complained it's unfair that Liu had so many concubines but she only had one husband, Liu selected several dozens of handsome men as her lovers.
>Liu ordered the consorts and princesses to have group sex publicly with his attendants in the palace and even forced the concubines to have sexual intercourse with animals. Those that dared to disobey were killed on site.

>>2806988
Zhu Youxiao became emperor at the age of 15, following the death of his father, theTaichang Emperor, who ruled less than a month.[2]He did not pay much attention to state affairs, and was accused of failing in his filial duties to his late father by not continuing the latter's wishes. It is possible that Zhu Youxiao suffered from a learning disability or something more. He was illiterate[2]and showed no interest in his studies. However, he was an outstanding carpenter and craftsman, often spending vast amounts of time on woodworking and instructing his servants to sell his creations undercover on the market just to see how much they were worth.

>>2807015
Those bombs were nothing since America helped them out so much afterwards. Now Japan is a wealthy and developed country and a leader in technological development.

>Qin
A powerful red-haired Indo-European from the Western frontier uses Western inventions such as the chariot to invade the East and conquers all the yellow-skinned submissive Mongoloids and rules over them. He institutes strict laws and standards throughout his empire to dominate and control his subjects and this leads to the Chinese cultural identity.

>Han
Chinese Mongoloid peasants rebel and oust their Caucasian masters and make a peasant their supreme emperor. Thanks to all the technology and culture brought to them by their Western conquerors, the Chinese experience a golden age.

>3 Kingdoms
Constant warfare between a bunch of peasants who want to be emperor. Someone writes a bullshit novel about them 1000 years later making them into superheroes.

>Sui then Tang
A northern Turkic people called the Xianbei conquer all of China. Tang is another golden age where Western culture is prevalent. For instance, the beauty standard is imported from Caucasian Turkic northerners and fat lewd chicks are seen as the ultimate sex symbol.

>Liao then Jin
Northern steppe warriors invade and conquer half of China and enslave the Chinese population.

>Song
The remaining southern half of China.

>Yuan
Founded by Genghis Khan (who had red hair according to historical documents) and his Mongolian descendants. They first conquer Jin, which is already foreign-occupied, and then they conquer Song and rape all the Chinese women. Chinese are relegated to the lowest social class in the multi-ethnic Yuan empire.

>Ming
Chinese peasants rebel and oust the Mongols. They once again make a peasant their supreme emperor.

>Qing
Northern steppe warriors called the Manchu invade and conquer all of China and subjugate the entire population. They force all Chinese men to shave half their head and massacre 30 million Chinese.

>Modern
Japan defeats Qing in a war and liberates the Chinese from 300 years of Manchu domination. Later, Japan weakens the KMT, and Communist peasants take over China.

>>2806993
They probably did the thing China always does when it spectacularly fails at something, ignore it and if they ask about it, pretend it worked.

>>2806965
From the First Opium War to the Tiananmen Square Massacre, modern China has been through 150 years of chaos and violence. I'm surprised they've been able to climb up to the 2nd largest economy today.

>>2806993
the revenge is occurring right now ;^)))

https://japantoday.com/category/features/kuchikomi/china-outperforming-japan-in-campus-romance

>>2807050
Was it autism?

>>2807090
Yes, and I mean literal autism.

>>2806988
the founder of the Ming dynasty is pretty fucking insane, he's Diocletian tier for sure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongwu_Emperor

>dirt poor peasant
>everything sucks, country falling apart because mongols don't know wtf they're doing
>family is too poor to feed him so he spends years traveling around the country as a beggar
>becomes a monk and learns to read and write
>comes back to live with family when things get a bit better
>entire family except for him is killed in a flood
>joins up with anti mongol rebel
>rises through the ranks and becomes a leader
>destroys the mongols and retakes China

>>2806822
>>2806847

This is so much better then fascism

>>2807062
>Later, Japan weakens the KMT and communist peasants take over China
no, that was pure Chiang

>>2807127
both maoist china and nazi germany are alike in that they show the problems with authoritarianism, when you get a literal crazy person who is highly charismatic and an extremely savvy political operator into a position of absolute power bad things happen

>>2807132
It's a troll post, anon.

>>2806822
Don't forget about the 4 pests campaign that contributed to that

>peasants are told to drive away sparrows because they eat rice and therefore "steal the production of the people"
>sparrows are eliminated from China's agricultural areas
>locusts no longer have a natural predator
>locusts eat everything and everyone dies

>>2807041
Just like my hentai

>>2807138
No

Nazis are seen as the worst people in existence
While people wear Mao shirts in public, even though they are clearly worse

>>2807150
People still wear Imperial Japan flags in public.

>>2807150
Well its true that nazis were worse than maoists by a lot, but I've never seen someone wear a mao shirt.

Mao was an incompetent idiot who believed his own bullshit and millions needlessly died as a result, but he wasn't actively trying to genocide millions the way the nazis were.

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During the Warring States Period (c.450 BC-221 BC), it was basically a non-stop state of bloody total war, especially near the end.
>The king of Zhou, hegemon of China, becomes a joke even more than before
>China's hills and river plains becomes a massive arena for never-ending intrigue and bloody warfare
>The former vassals of Zhou adopt Legalism, gradually centralizing and militarizing societies to a ridiculous degree, especially the state of Qin
>Rulers and their ministers gain immense control over most levels of society
>Application of the law and standardization to an autistic degree (i.e.execution of families if their fathers and sons are not at military roll-call, imposition of one writing style, incredibly precise weapons manufacture)
>High culture, trade, and fine music condemned as parasitic to the war effort and maximizing domestic production
>Whole society and government geared around warfare
>Massive infrastructure projects and workshops to produce more weapons and armor, improve communications between armies, and increase agricultural potential for more soldiers
>Every fit male subject to conscription and everyone else working on war production (manufacturing materiel, food for troops)
>Constant, zero-sum expansionism into other Chinese states and barbarian territory to feed more and more resources into the military machine.
>Endless deportations and massacres to pacify restless conquered populations
>EVERYONE trying to contain the military juggernaut that was Qin
>Despite millions of dead bodies for this purpose of stopping that country, it single-handedly overruns all of China

>>2806617
>What are the Chinese equivalents to Samurai?
The youxia from Chinese folklore are similar to ronin.
>A type of ancient Chinese folk hero celebrated in classical Chinese poetry and fictional literature. Of the two characters of the term, yóu (遊) literally means to "wander", "travel" or "move around", and xiá (俠) means someone with power who helps others in need. The term refers to the way these men solely travelled the land using physical force or political influence to right the wrongs done to the common people by the powers that be, often judged by their personal codes of chivalry.

The lowest aristocratic rank in the Zhou Dynasty were the Shi and it's where the "shi" (士) in "bushido" (武士道) originates from.
>The countryside was administered by "grand masters" (dafu 大夫), and the lowest aristocratic group, the shi 士, mostly younger sons of nobles, were enfeoffed with the smallest territories far from the capital.

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>>2807198
>EVERYONE trying to contain the military juggernaut that was Qin
What made the Qin so unstoppable?

>>2807198
the first emperor was really something else, did you know that he died from mercury poisoning because he thought it would give him immortality

that should tell you all you need to know about him

>>2807217
Yiji serve as a Chinese counterpart to the geisha pretty well though.

>A yiji could come from various backgrounds, but a common background was that of a slave girl in a brothel: the girl was then taken from the brothel and educated her in the arts of being a courtesan.

>Yiji were initially not involved in the direct sex trade, but was rather an entertainer performed music and arts, such as poetry, music and singing, to please dignitaries and intellectuals. They were respected and renowned for their art and education in the classics, and were hired to perform to both male and female clients, as well as employed by the state. Though yiji could in individual cases choose to sell sexual favors to a client, this was not a part of her profession as a yiji, but a parallel favor outside of their profession as a yiji and regarded as separated from it.

China has had huge population shifts throughout its history. The Three Kingdoms period is one of the bloodiest periods in history of China. A population census in late Eastern Han dynasty reported a population of approximately 56 million, while a population census in early Western Jin dynasty (after Jin reunified China) reported a population of approximately 16 million.

>>2807232
the fall of the Han was just like the fall of the WRE but a million times worse because of course it was its fucking china

>>2807223
well thiswas a sort of Chinese Napoleon. He somehow managed to unite a country that would keep "together" for a few thousand years

He was probably a little off

>>2807232
China has been one of the most populated countries throughout most of history. The Ming Empire in the 1500s had a population of 125,000,000 and 28.5% of the total world population.

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>>2807150
(((I wonder why)))

>>2807262
Contrast this with the second largest population at the time -- the Ashikaga shogunate, which only had 17,000,000 (3.9%) of the world's population. That's fucking crazy.

>>2807275
please leave

>>2807220
Talented people- Competent dynasty of kings (such as Duke Mu), brilliant advisers (Zhang Yi, Li Si, Han Fei, Shang Yang)

Ideology- Legalism sets the theory and pragmatics for the state to gather immense resources for war through centralization, bureaucratization, and standardized, efficient production.

Geography- Qin heartland only accessible by the Tong pass from the east or crossing mountainous terrain and rivers from the south

Culture- People were notoriously warlike due to centuries of warfare with neighboring barbarians

Infrastructure- Focus on domestic development allows maximization of resources. Even though the Qin's land was rather poor, infrastructure projects allowed the Qin to squeeze out as much as possible

Meritocracy- Qin gave out government positions on performance and merit rather than birth and actively recruited many Legalists emigrating from other states

>>2807281
He's right though.

>>2807292
when was the last time you saw someone with a mao t-shirt?

>>2807286
Oops, *rulers not *kings. During the Eastern Zhou period, the vassal states still pretended to be subservient to Zhou in the beginning.

>>2807276
It's funny how the entire HRE also had a smaller population (16,000,000) than Japan.

>>2807292
No.

>>2807198
This sounds like the recipe for some really good stories. Why don't the Chinese write books about the Warring States instead of churning out more Three Kingdoms fanfiction?

>>2807296
What?
>>2807299
Yes.

During the chinese civil war after the end of ww2 Chiang had such a ridiculous resource advantage over the communists including over 4 billion in US military aid, its amazing that he lost. He really just was that incompetent.
>soviets take over manchuria at end of ww2
>they delay their withdrawal to allow the communists to occupy the area, and deny the nationalists freedom of movement into their occupation zone
>Chiang uses the US air force to airlift his soldiers into Manchuria to capture key cities, over the concerns of US advisors that he was leaving too few troops south of the great wall
>they take the cities but the communists control the countryside and have massive peasant support because of the land reform their army is carrying out
>Chaing spends half of his annual military budget airlifting supplies to the troops occupying cities in Manchuria for two months
>makes up for the budget shortfall by just printing more money which causes the chinese dollar to hyperinflate over 1 million%.
>the nationalists base of support had been urban middle class and elites, but they just lost all their life savings
that's not even the half of it, Chiang was such a shit, the communists beat him on the battlefield despite him having every advantage, but he really lost the war due to economic incompetence and corruption.

>>2807308
you are not adding anything to the discussion by spouting tired /pol/ memes about DA JUZE in a thread about Chinese history, please contribute to the thread or leave.

>>2807301
There are a lot of stories from this period that appear in history records like the Shiji. Although it does appear in East Asian popular culture sometimes, it's not nearly as popular as the Three Kingdoms (which I myself do like, particularly the 1994 TV drama). I've heard an explanation saying that it's because the Warring States has less records available than the TK. To this I say, Zhuge Liang banned historians from the Shu court, yet Luo Guanzhong had no problem making an epic out of its conflicts with the other states. Are there better reasons for this phenomenon?

Since I'm interested in going into graduate school largely for me to study the Warring States-Han dynasty, I hope to write a book about it sometime in the near future.

>>2807223
Unlike Hitler and all those other 20th century retards, the First Emperor had an actually competent mind for implementing militaristic reforms for warfare despite its disadvantages and not letting ridiculous, parasitic organizations like the SS to spook the efficiency of the state. Of course, Legalism has its glaring problems in the long-run.

>>2807308
Fuck off.

Now to keep on topic, there were historic Jewish communities in China. The most well-known of these were the Kaifeng Jews.

>Most scholars agree that a Jewish community has existed in Kaifeng since the Northern Song Dynasty (960–1127), though some date their arrival to the Tang Dynasty (618–907) or earlier.[1] Kaifeng, then the capital of the Northern Song Dynasty, was a cosmopolitan city on a branch of the Silk Road. It is surmised that a small community of Jews, most likely from Persia or India, arrived either overland or by a sea route, and settled in the city, building a synagogue in 1163

Their descendants still exist today and while most are non-practicing, they were always told by their families to avoid the consumption of pork. Some of them underwent formal conversion since the majority Jewish community does not accept patrilineal descent (which is the style of Chinese inheritance). After their formal conversion, most partook in aliyah and now live as Israeli citizens. Jews are not a recognized religious group by the modern Chinese government and so are not allowed to display their religious symbols or practice in public.

Why doesn't the Chinese language use many honorifics?

>>2806858
Source?

>>2806858
>it allows people who speak completely different languages to understand each other perfectly via writing due to its logographic structure.
That's not true. The other languages require different characters and they differ in sentence structure. Cantonese script is a thing.

>>2807085
This isn't accurate because Japanese men are far more likely to marry outside their ethnicity than Japanese women are.

>Of the 15,442 non-Japanese brides in 2013, most came from China (40.4%), followed by the Philippines (20.1%), South Korea (17.7%), and Thailand (6.3%). The 6,046 grooms came from Korea (27.9%), the United States (19.1%), China (11.8%), and Brazil (4.7%).
http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/database/db-hw/dl/81-1a2en.pdf

And many of the Brazilian men are actually Brazilians of Japanese descent or Japanese Brazilians.

>>2807412
>Korea (27.9%)
No mention of North or South, are they Zainichi then?

>>2807424
Yes. Thanks for pointing that out.

>>2807412
Hah, so it's actually the Japanese men who are cucking their women.

>>2807431
>>2807424
>>2807412
>>2807429
Get back on track, everybody. This is a China thread.

>>2807124
explain to me how he is anything like Diocletian

>>2807301
They do, it's called "Chronicles of the Eastern Zhou Kingdoms", it's also published in Ming dynasty but more historical accurate than ROTK.

>>2807124
This emperor is so much cooler than the incest lunatic or autistic carpenter.

>>2807441
came from absolutely nothing to restore the empire to its former greatness. I always liked the idea of a freed slave rising to become emperor. Yes I know its debated, and he was probably the son of a freed slave, but still.

>>2807050
You forgot the part where he was seduced by his nanny Madam Ke at age 15.

So in Chinese history they have something called "baby names" and "adult names"? Or is this "birth names" and "courtesy names"? You get two names or something?

>>2806617
>>2806988
I recommend this podcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCim2V_PqtJ6_W2fDESGzJHA/feed

he has covered dozens of topics, from History of Tea and Ancient Emperors to Communist leaders

>>2807463
You get two names. Your birth name and courtesy or style name (also called "adult name" because you get it in adulthood). Chinese people sometimes got an infant nickname by prefixing Ā- (阿) or Xiǎo (小) to the surname or the second character of the given name. The nicknaming is still common but I don't think Chinese people use courtesy names anymore.

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A yaodong (Chinese: 窑洞; pinyin: yáodòng) or "house cave" is a particular form of earth shelter dwelling common in the Loess Plateau in China's north. They are generally carved out of a hillside or excavated horizontally from a central "sunken courtyard".

The earth that surrounds the indoor space serves as an effective insulator keeping the inside of the structure warm in cold seasons and cool in hot seasons. Consequently, very little heating is required in winter, and in summer, it is as cool as an air-conditioned room.

The history of yaodongs goes back centuries, and they continue to be used. In 2006, an estimated 40 million people in northern China lived in yaodongs. In the last decade, yaodongs have been brought to the attention of scientists and researchers. These traditional dwellings have been regarded as an example of sustainable design.

>>2807499
these things caused the deadliest earthquake in human history in the 16th century where over 800,000 people died because the cave walls collapsed and they were either crushed or couldn't get out and starved

>>2807041
Jesus Christ.

>>2807041
What kind of animals? Asking for a friend.

>>2807750
Dogs and pigs. Some exotic species too.

>>2806858
[Citations needed]

1. This isn't /pol/
2. 25 year rule

Zhang Xianzhong or Chang Hsien-chung (September 18, 1606 – January 2, 1647), nicknamed Yellow Tiger, was a leader of a peasant revolt from Yan'an, Shaanxi Province. He conquered Sichuan in 1644, and named himself king of the Daxi dynasty. His rule in Sichuan was brief and he was killed by the invading Qing army. He is commonly associated with the massacres in Sichuan which depopulated the region.

The events surrounding Zhang Xianzhong's rule and afterwards devastated Sichuan, where he was said to have "engaged in one of the most hair-raising genocides in imperial history". Lurid stories of his killings and flayings were given in various accounts. According to Shu Bi (蜀碧), an 18th-century account of the massacre, after every slaughter, the heads were collected and placed in several big piles, while the hands were placed in other big piles, and the ears and noses in more piles, so that Zhang Xianzhong could keep count of his killings. In one incident, he is said to have organized an imperial examination ostensibly to recruit scholars for his administration, only to have all the candidates, which numbered many thousands, killed. In another, to give thanks for his recovery after an illness, he was said to have cut off the feet of many women. The severed feet were heaped in two piles with those of his favorite concubine, whose feet were unusually small, placed on top. These two piles of feet were then doused in oil and set alight to become what he called "heavenly candles".

He was also reported to have ordered further massacres before he abandoned Chengdu in advance of the invading Manchus. The massacres, a subsequent famine and epidemic, attacks by tigers, as well as people fleeing from the turmoil and the invasion of the Manchus, resulted in a large-scale depopulation of Sichuan.

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Of the top eleven deadliest wars in human history, five were Chinese civil wars and one was the Japanese invasion of China.

>>2807476
Thank you

Good post

>>2807850
>be me
>reading history book
>"2 million people died"
>holy fuck that's a lot
>"in china"
>oh ok that makes sense

Everything in China happens on a x1000 scale

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>>2807850
>black death excluded for mongols
>smallpox included for spaniards

>>2806822
>Mao asked intellectuals and students to speak up about areas where the government wasn't working, then a few months later arrested everyone who did as a counter revolutionary
This is brilliant in itself

>>2807850
The majority of the people who died during the Mongol conquests were Chinese and Chinese people make up a quarter of all WWII deaths.

>>2807150
Do you have a source for what is worse, /pol/?

>>2807929
t. IJA LARPer

>>2807865
Mao was a political genius

>>2807878
Is it bad that I first got into Chinese history because of the ludicrous death tolls?

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Rome and China are like a weird doppelganger pair who somehow never met.

>200's BC
-Roman Republic rises in ascendancy
-The Qin Dynasty is established
>Late 200's BC and 100's AD
-Rome fights and defeats its worst enemy, Carthage
-The Han Dynasty fights and defeats its worst enemy, the Xiongnu
>0-100's AD
-Roman Imperial Golden Ages
-Han Golden Age in China
>200's AD
-The Crisis of the Third Century in Rome. The empire is divided into the Gallic Empire in the west, the Palmyran Empire in the east, and the remains of the central Roman Empire.
-Collapse of the Han dynasty and Three Kingdoms Period in China. The empire is divided into Wei in the north, Wu in the southeast, and Shu in the southwest.
>300's AD
-Rome is reunited and stabilized under the Tetrarchy and Christianity.
-China is reunited and stabilized under the Jin Dynasty.
>400's-500's AD
-The Shittening. The Western Roman Empire falls and the West is occupied by barbarians who found their own kingdoms. Romaness moves to the East where the Byzantine Empire continues.
-The Shittening. The Jin dynasty falls and the North is occupied by barbarians who found the Northern Dynasties. Chineseness moves to the South where the Southern Dynasties are established.
>600's-800's
-The Byzantine Empire's golden ages.
-Reunification under Sui. The Tang Dynasty's golden ages.
>900's AD.
-Turkic Invasions lead to huge territorial losses for Byzantines. Internal problems at home and in the Balkans.
-Fall of the Tang in China, generals fall into infighting as a century sees 5 dynasties and 10 Kingdoms in quick succession
>1000's-1100's
-The Byzantine Renaissance after the Komnenian Restoration. Much stability and sciences
-The Song Renaissance Period after the reunion under the Song Dynasty. Also much stability and sciences
>Mid 1200's
-Byzantine Empire nearly collapses from invading Crusaders and Muslims
-Song Dynasty collapses from invading Mongols and is replaced by the Yuan Dynasty.

>>2808136
They knew about each other but the Parthians and Kushans kept cockblocking them to control the silk trade. China called Rome the "other China" but Rome just thought of China as "those Asians".

File: 1280px-Flag_of_Taiping_Heavenly_Kingdom.svg.png (125KB, 1280x853px) Image search: [Google]

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The Taiping Rebellion (1850-64) was perhaps the second or third deadliest war in human history. By the most conservative estimates the death toll starts off between 20-30 million, and other sources give as many as 60-80 million deaths. However, it is overshadowed in the Western consciousness by the American Civil War which took place around the same time (1861-65) and killed /only/ 620,000 people.

>a random guy fails the imperial exams for the fourth time, denying him a place in the civil service
>goes home depressed and falls ill
>starts having fever dreams/mystical visions of being given a sword by a bearded old man and being taught to use it by a young man who calls him brother >digs through his stuff and finds some old Jesuit pamphlets he was given a few years ago
>realizes he is the Jesus Christ's younger brother and he was given the sword by God
>his mission from God is to destroy the Qing devils and unite China under Christianity
>starts the bloodiest civil war in history to create the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom
>a militant theocracy run under a completely batshit fusion of Christianity, Taoism, Confucianism, and ancient Shang dynasty folklore, so heretical none of the Western Christian powers would touch them with a ten foot pole
>and they also had a pretty wacky flag

>>2806617
My favorite story was when England wanted China's tea but they were getting broke from their tea addiction so they decided to drug the Chinese with opium.

>>2807073
>Opium wars
>Taiping Rebellion
>Boxer Rebellion
>Warlord era
>Japanese invasions
>KMT-CCP civil war
>Great Leap Forward
>Cultural Revolution
>all within less than 200 years
It's practically a miracle that China is not only still standing, but is now back to being a top 2 power after all this shit.

>>2808271
The Opium Wars were stupid but people actually believed they were immune against bullets in the Boxer Rebellion lmao

File: Daqin.jpg (596KB, 906x1356px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2808136
Pic related is what the Chinese thought the Romans looked like.

>>2808303
>>2808165
>>2808136
And here's a translation from the third century text the Weilue regarding what China thought of the Roman Empire.
http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/weilue/weilue.html#section11

>This country (the Roman Empire) has more than four hundred smaller cities and towns. It extends several thousand li in all directions.13 The king has his capital (that is, the city of Rome) close to the mouth of a river (the Tiber).14 The outer walls of the city are made of stone.

>This region has pine trees, cypress, sophora, catalpa, bamboo, reeds, poplars, willows, parasol trees, and all sorts of plants.15 The people cultivate the five grains [traditionally: rice, glutinous and non-glutinous millet, wheat and beans], and they raise horses, mules, donkeys, camels and silkworms.16 (They have) a tradition of amazing conjuring. They can produce fire from their mouths, bind and then free themselves, and juggle twelve balls with extraordinary skill.17

>The ruler of this country is not permanent. When disasters result from unusual phenomena, they unceremoniously replace him, installing a virtuous man as king, and release the old king, who does not dare show resentment.18

>The common people are tall and virtuous like the Chinese, but wear hu (‘Western’) clothes. They say they originally came from China, but left it.19

>They have always wanted to communicate with China but, Anxi (Parthia), jealous of their profits, would not allow them to pass (through to China).20

>The common people can write in hu (‘Western’) script.21 They have multi-storeyed public buildings and private; (they fly) flags, beat drums, (and travel in) small carriages with white roofs, and have a postal service with relay sheds and postal stations, like in the Middle Kingdom (China).

>From Anxi (Parthia) you go around Haibei (‘North of the Sea’ – the lands between Babylonia and Jordan) to reach this country.22

>>2808335
>The people (of these countries) are connected to each other. Every 10 li (4.2 km) there is a ting (relay shed or changing place), and every 30 li (12.5 km) there is a zhi (postal station).23 There are no bandits or thieves, but there are fierce tigers and lions that kill those travelling on the route. If you are not in a group, you cannot get through.24

>This country (Rome) has installed dozens of minor kings. The king’s administrative capital (Rome) is more than 100 li (42 km) around.25 There is an official Department of Archives.

>The king has five palaces at 10 li (4.2 km) intervals. He goes out at daybreak to one of the palaces and deals with matters until sunset and then spends the night there. The next day he goes to another palace and, in five days makes a complete tour. They have appointed thirty-six leaders who discuss events frequently.26 If one leader does not show up, there is no discussion. When the king goes out for a walk, he always orders a man to follow him holding a leather bag. Anyone who has something to say throws his or her petition into the bag. When he returns to the palace, he examines them and determines which are reasonable.27

>They use glass to make the pillars and table utensils in the palaces.28 They manufacture bows and arrows.

>They divide the various branch principalities of their territory into small countries such as that of the king of Zesan (Azania?),29 the king of Lüfen (Leucos Limen),30 the king of Qielan (Wadi Sirhan),31 the king of Xiandu (Leukê Komê),32 the king of Sifu (Petra),33 (and that of) the king of Yuluo (Karak).34 There are so many other small kingdoms it is impossible to give details on each one.

>>2808339
>This country produces fine linen.1 They make gold and silver coins. One gold coin is equal to ten silver coins.2

>They have fine brocaded cloth that is said to be made from the down of ‘water-sheep’. It is called Haixi (‘Egyptian’) cloth. This country produces the six domestic animals, which are all said to come from the water.3

>It is said that they not only use sheep’s wool, but also bark from trees, or the silk from wild cocoons,4 to make brocade, mats, pile rugs, woven cloth and curtains, all of them of good quality, and with brighter colours than those made in the countries of Haidong (“East of the Sea”).5

>Furthermore, they regularly make a profit by obtaining Chinese silk, unravelling it, and making fine hu (‘Western’) silk damasks.6 That is why this country trades with Anxi (Parthia) across the middle of the sea. The seawater is bitter and unable to be drunk, which is why it is rare for those who try to make contact to reach China.

>The mountains (of this country) produce nine-coloured jewels (fluorite) of inferior quality. They change colour on different occasions from blue-green to red, yellow, white, black, green, purple, fiery red, and dark blue.7 Nowadays nine-coloured stones of the same type are found in the Yiwu Shan (a mountain range east of Hami).8

>In the third Yangjia year (CE 134), the king of Shule (Kashgar), Chen Pan [who had been made a hostage at the court of the Kushan emperor, for some period between 114 and 120, and was later placed on the throne of Kashgar by the Kushans],9 offered a blue (or green) gem and a golden girdle from Haixi (Egypt).10

>Moreover, the Xiyu Jiutu (‘Ancient Sketch of the Western Regions’) now says that both Jibin (Kapisha-Gandhāra) and Tiaozhi (Characene and Susiana) produce precious stones approaching the quality of jade.11

>>2808342
And directions on how to get to Rome from China.

>The kingdom of Da Qin (Rome) is also called Lijian. It is west of Anxi (Parthia) and Tiaozhi (Characene and Susiana), and west of the Great Sea.

>From the city of Angu (Gerrha), on the frontier of Anxi (Parthia), you take a boat and cut directly across to Haixi (‘West of the Sea’ = Egypt). With favourable winds it takes two months; if the winds are slow, perhaps a year; if there is no wind, perhaps three years.

>The country (that you reach) is west of the sea (haixi), which is why it is called Haixi (literally: ‘West of the Sea’ = Egypt). There is a river (the Nile) flowing out of the west of this country, and then there is another great sea (the Mediterranean). The city of (Wu) Chisan (Alexandria) is in Haixi (Egypt).

>From below this country you go north to reach the city of Wudan (Tanis?). You (then) head southwest and cross a river (the Sebannitus branch of the Nile?) by boat, which takes a day. You head southwest again, and again cross a river (the Canopis branch of the Nile?) by boat, which takes another day. There are, in all, three major cities [that you come to].

>Now, if you leave the city of Angu (Gerrha) by the overland route, you go north to Haibei (‘North of the Sea’ – the lands between Babylonia and Jordan), then west to Haixi (Egypt), then turn south to go through the city of Wuchisan (Alexandria). After crossing a river, which takes a day by boat, you circle around the coast (to the region of Apollonia, the port of Cyrene). (From there, i.e. the region of Apollonia) six days is generally enough to cross the (second) great sea (the Mediterranean) to reach that country (Da Qin = Rome).

China/Rome is my OTP that was never canon

>>2807865
it alienated a generation of intellectuals and technocrats, its the reason why no one dared to speak up against the great leap forward

File: 1446367670258.gif (3MB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

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In pic related, you can actually spot the exact moments the Taiping Rebellion, the Second Sino-Japanese War, and the Great Leap Forward happen.

>>2807394
They have been standardized to simplified Chinese.

>>2807062
>red-headed Qin emperor
lol

>>2808368
That's not how writing works. Simplified Chinese is only standardized for Mandarin. It would be impossible for me write a story in a Hakka dialect with only "simplified Chinese". I would have to employ many Hakka exclusive characters, and the grammar structure differs so non-Hakkas would not know how to read it.

>>2806617
Let's see...
>Agrarian kingdoms
>Unified by warlord from Qin
>Strongest empire in the world until Ming
>Empire collapses in 1912
>Transition
>Commies

>>2807394
It works if you stick to Classical Chinese, which can be pronounced in any dialect and was the official script of the administration and literature.

>>2808386
This is the reason why the PRC is destroying all the non-Mandarin Sinitic languages or calling them "dialects" of Mandarin even when they are completely unintelligible from each other. The Min languages are also way older than the Mandarin languages or any other Chinese language family.

>>2808386
Not all (Mongolian, Tibetan, Russian for instance obviously don't use Chinese script).
But I probably should I have just named Cantonese and Mandarin instead using an ambiguous "all". Some other dialects also do use Chinese, like Manchu, but not "all"
Whoops

>>2808391
>Strongest empire in the world until Ming
wrong.

>>2808394
That's because Classical Chinese is completely different from any spoken form of Chinese. It's something you have to learn independently.

>>2808402
Prove me wrong

>>2808400
You didn't even refute my point. If I was a Hakka-exclusive speaker and you told me to write a story using Chinese characters in my own language then I wouldn't be able to. We would not be able to "understand each other perfectly" through only writing.

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>>2808413
consider suicide

>>2808417
Can you not read?
I said that dialects have been standardized against written Chinese, and then just cleared it up with my clarification that I meant primarily the two largest dialects. Sure you can write a story in Canton script, but you are equally able to write it in standard simplified chinese. If you speak Hakka, you're shit out of luck

>>2808427
>primarily the two largest dialect
The fucking Wu languages are spoken more than the Yue languages

>If you speak Hakka, you're shit out of luck
So you have proven nothing then.

>>2808427
>largest dialects

How are Mandarin and Cantonese dialects of each other lmao

>>2808423
>Using metal production as a measure od global power
>Even when little research has been done on Han metallurgy
>Fails to mention rarity of metals like Silver and gold in Han China
Try again faggot, unless you're posting shit b8

>>2808441
I wasn't trying to prove anything to begin with?
Also Combined, there are more Mandarin and Cantonese speakers out there, and I'm almost certain that a plurality of minority dialect speakers speak canton

>>2808386
Shanghainese would use a different character for many of its verbs and a Standard Mandarin speaker could not read any of it. The grammar structure would also be different. Mandarin is SVO whereas Shanghainese splits between SVO and SOV.

>>2808454
>Also Combined, there are more Mandarin and Cantonese speakers out there
Why are you combining them? They're right about there being more Wu speakers than Yue speakers.

>>2808454
You said people could understand each other perfectly from standard script alone; which they can't.
And whoa, if I combined Guan and Wu then that would be more than the total Yue speakers combined!

>>2808405
But it's a grammar register that with only a little learning is comprehensible to speakers of any dialect. Obviously it doesn't work for the vernaculars since they are totally different languages, but classical is what is used for the administration and is compatible between dialects.

>>2808451
>huur duur
>most powerful empire guiz..
>yeah they couldn't produce anything and had no real large industries besides some sheets of cloth but fuck whitey ching chong

>>2808459
>>2808463
I fucking love /linguistics/

>>2808472
We should be /lang/. We're like /int/ without the constant /soc/ pollution.

I don't know shit about linguistics! Post more badass facts!

China is the last remaining place in the world with an active Manichaeism community

>Manichaeism (/ˌmænᵻˈkiːJzəm/;[1] in Modern Persian آین مانی Āyin-e Māni; was a major religious movement that was founded by the Iranian[2] prophet Mani (in Persian: مانی, Syriac: ܡܐܢܝ , Latin: Manichaeus or Manes; c. 216–276 AD) in the Sasanian Empire.[3][4]

>Manichaeism taught an elaborate dualistic cosmology describing the struggle between a good, spiritual world of light, and an evil, material world of darkness. Through an ongoing process which takes place in human history, light is gradually removed from the world of matter and returned to the world of light, whence it came. Its beliefs were based on local Mesopotamian gnostic and religious movements.[5]

>Chinese Manichaeism is the form of Manichaeism (摩尼教 Móníjiào or 明教 Míngjiào, "bright religion") transmitted and practiced in China. Manichaeism was introduced into China in the Tang dynasty,[1] through Central Asian communities.[1] It never rose to prominence, and was officially banned and persecuted through the suppression of non-Chinese religions started by the Emperor Wuzong of Tang.

>In modern China, Manichaean groups are still active in southern provinces, especially in Quanzhou[4] and around the Cao'an, the only Manichaean temple that has survived until today.[5] There is a Chinese Manichaean Council with representatives in Tibet and Beijing.

>Chinese Manichaeism identifies as a teaching with the purpose of awakening (佛 fú), and it is a monotheism worshipping the universal God (Shangdi, Míngzūn 明尊 "Radiant Lord" or Zhēnshén 真神 "True God"). Creation is the Living Spirit (淨活風 Jìnghuófēng) of God, of whom there have been many manifestations in human form, including Mani (摩尼 Móní).[6]

>>2806847
>close planting, which was where plants of the same type are planted closely together, the idea being that the same species wouldn't compete with itself. In reality however it did and yields were lower.
so I told Mao to be even worse at agriculture than Lysenko and he actually did it the absolute madman

>>2808467
Good job, you've proven literally nothing, faggot. "Fuck whitey"? I'm white you autistist. What is this, /pol/?
>no industry besides sheets of cloth
Because sheets of cloth can support the world's largest population right? That population was also probably wealthier per capita than Rome, and archeology has shown that their military technolgy was just as if not superior to what the Romans had for most of the early Roman Empire, at the minimum

The Dungan Revolt (1862–77) was started when a Hui buyer disputed the price of the bamboo poles being sold by a Han merchant.

This then turned into an all-out ethnic war, which by the end had killed 8,000,000 people. This, combined with those who fled elsewhere depopulated Shaanxi by 45% and Gansu by 75%.

>>2808527
Oh look, it's how Western civilization will fall if Europe keeps letting immigrants in to assimilate

>>2808526
*autist

>>2808510
China has a deep religious history. Pretty much every major world religion has had some presence there. Most Chinese people today are:
>Practitioners of folk religions (which are sometimes called Shenism, Shénjiào, Shenxianism or Shénxiānjiào)
>Atheist (because the communists encourage it)
>Subscribe to one or all of the three Three teachings (Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism). They often mix this with folk religion.

>>2807453
Hot

File: cao mengde.jpg (70KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2807482

CAO CAO

KNOWN AS CAO MENGDE

>>2808386
Fucking this. If you could write non-Mandarin Sino languages with the characters we have then they wouldn't be developing a Hakka scripts in Taiwan right now.

File: 黄可.webm (3MB, 270x360px) Image search: [Google]

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Since this is a China thread, what's a good place to start learning Chinese? I used Rosetta Stone for Japanese, but while good, it's so fucking slow... Anything else?

Good thread

>>2808544
I think most Chinese people identify as atheist because they don't follow any religion, but they are raised in a culture built upon the Three teachings, and they have loads of superstitions which stem from their folk religion.

>>2808583
I'm not Chinese but most Chinese people I have met act just like this. There are the Buddhists (usually pre-commie Chinese diaspora) and Christians (usually underground Catholics but there are a lot of newer Protestants).

>>2808533
>hurr
Reminder that the large Hui populations who lived in other provinces had no connection with the revolt, did not join the revolt, and suffered no ill consequences as a result of the revolt.

Reminder that even the Qing governors' official policy was not to treat all Muslims as rebels and recognize that there were many loyal Muslims who did not join the rebellion, and there were many Hui fighting on the side of the Qing against the rebels.

Reminder that the rebellious Hui never called for Jihad, never called for establishing a Muslim state, and their main motivation for the rebellion was revenge against corrupt officials and class strife.

Reminder that after the revolt was put down the official policy was that "The only distinction is between the innocent and rebellious, there is none between Han and Hui", and it was decreed that Hui who had rebelled were heretics and not representative of the Hui population.

Reminder that to this day the Hui live peacefully alongside the Han, are practically indistinguishable from the Han aside from being Muslims, practice their religion quietly in private, and are nothing like the crazy separatists in Xinjiang.

>>2808364
source of gif?

>>2808423
hahaha using natural resources as a indicator of powerfulness. fuck off cuck

>>2808568
... who dat?

File: 1404506356891.gif (1MB, 276x232px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2808568
>that webm

>>2808606
Xinjiang has the right to independence but we all know if China left then it would create a power vacuum for crazy Islamists to step in.

Can someone please explain to me how the modern Chinese are a different people from the ancient Chinese? I have seen this claim posted on this board very often.

>>2808568
Chinese Skill app

It's basically duolingo but for chinese.

Chinese is fucking easy anyway, don't listen to those tards saying its so hard.

>>2808651
The writing is the only hard part 2bh.

>>2808636

It's in the filename?

>>2808651

Thanks.

why is that every time a China thread pops up on ANY board its all about how China is genociding its own people. Not complaining, but its kinda interesting

>>2808708
Because Chinese history is full of insane death tolls

>>2808708
because like 70% of Chinese history is genocidal wars

>>2808708
Some westerners are very jealous of China so they make up or exaggerate stuff

>>2808650
I've been seeing a lot of that crap too. Like these examples:
>>2806705
>>2804093

And then there was a discussion about it on another thread:
>>2802120
>>2802828
>>2804020

>>2806617
Unlike the Western political spectrum which runs between conservatism and liberalism born out of the golden renaissance of the Enlightenment, the Chinese political spectrum has long run between Confucianism (live a moral life, obey your superiors and be benevolent to your inferiors), Legalism (fuck you you're a fucking asshole follow the law or get fucked), and Taoism (go with the flow and mystical shit) born out of the mass death total war chaos state of the Spring and Autumn Period.

>>2808755
Thanks bill wurtz larper

>>2808650

They're mostly come out of Japan, who are so triggered by the fact that everything they have is Koreanized Chinese stuff in origin that they now attempt to say that the "real" Chinese went over to Japan while China got overtaken by Mongols etc.

This is, of course, fucking stupid. Not only because it never happened, but because it betrays and unhealthy obsession with race, especially when China is fundamentally cultural.

China has never been about race or any kind of "purity." They were like pragmatists that cared much more about social cohesion. To imply that a territory as big and widespread as China would have any sort of racial homogeneity is retarded from the get go. It's a huge land with all sorts of different people.

>>2808764
That attitude may have worked when China was the biggest kid on the block and the center of civilization in its sphere of influence. However has Dr Sun Yat Sen rightfully realised, China had to develop a proper national identity and nationalism in order to stay cohesive and survive in the world dominated by the west. Hence the Kuomintang, the Nationalists.

>>2808722
Peng, please.

>>2807865
>brilliant

it's utterly despicable.

Chinese history is filled with literally-worse-than-Hitlers.

And you can't trust their history at all because it's mostly propaganda nonsense, shit like having half a million warriors in 500 BC is written in those fantasy novels you people call history

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>>2808804

>written in those fantasy novels you people call history

>>2806858
More likely the U.S. will support the Chinese takeover of Siberia.

Most in the American foreign policy establishment are Jews who hate Russia and want revenge for the pogroms. What is better revenge than taking Siberia from them? Kishinev would be avenged.

>>2808568
>the kid with the phone in the background

>>2808606
>Hui live peacefully alongside the Han

If you call relentlessly bullying, beating up, and raping "living peacefully".

>>2808423
That chart you provide is from a wiki project page, I've read it before several times. The comparison research they do is not enough, especially on Han dynasty side, they even address this problem themselves:
>"There has been significant research done on Roman metallurgical production while research on the Han is relatively scarce."
https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Comparison_between_Roman_and_Han_Empires#cite_ref-Callata.C3.BF_2005.2C_363f._26-0

I presume it's the language barrier. Most sources they list are still Western books, they can easily understand Rome's performance, but there are still a fair amount of Chinese records untranslated and they cannot easily acquire them.

the fuck is wrong with china?

>>2808804
>you can't trust their history at all because it's mostly propaganda nonsense
Citation and evidences needed.

>shit like having half a million warriors in 500 BC is written in those fantasy novels you people call history
It's you own fault if you can't even distinguish the difference between "fantasy novels" and actual history. But I presume you haven't really study a single Chinese history book, not to mention read Chinese.

Attitude like yours is more despicable actually, and very common on this board as well.

>>2807062
>this entire post
Did this pasta come from /pol/? I have a hard time believing anyone else would actually type all this nonsense out, even if it is a shitpost.

Neat thread

So if I were to learn Chinese, I could easily read old Chinese scriptures, be it there in the same dialect ?

>>2807015
I despise Nips, but after reading their history, it's the fault of the militarists and industrialists for Japan's aggression from 1895-1945. The common people just obeyed because that's within their cultural context and the government wasn't a democracy in any sense. It was an oligarchy of military, nobility, and big business.

Besides after getting nuked twice, their country occupied, their womenfolk flocking to American cock, and their men being turned into anime-worshipping numales, I think the Japs have been chastised enough.

>>2807124
I fucking love the founders of the Ming and Han Dynasties since they were both commoners. And yeah, Hongwu was pretty badass in his years before Emperor. Too bad the Ming was a shitty reactionary dynasty.

>>2809098
t. chinaman

your entire ancient history is propaganda bullshit

>>2809651
t. degenerate shitposter

>your entire ancient history is propaganda bullshit
Again, citation and evidences needed.

>>2809191
You have to learn classical Chinese to read ancient texts, it won't be affected by any dialects , but it can still help you to communicate with other Chinese(by writing) if needed.

>>2807482

You get your courtesy name when you're married (guys only). I didn't know my dad had one until he put his name in our book of family registry.

>>2809679
why don't you go ahead and cite the 1 (ONE) source you have for 2000 years of history, and then the 1 (ONE) source you have for the thousand years after that.

>>2809191

No, because the modern standard of written Chinese is based on northern Mandarin vernacular, especially from Beijing. Classical Chinese, which was the official system until the early 20th century, has different vocabulary and grammar. To a modern person familiar with Chinese, Classical Chinese seems much more brief - for example, practically all of the vocabulary is monosyllabic. Classical Chinese was only a written standard and didn't reflect the way local people would speak, so dialect wasn't an issue. Those with an education learned how to read Classical Chinese albeit pronounced with local readings.

Another issue is that most Chinese instruction uses the PRC's simplified character sets instead of traditional ones. Original documents would be in traditional characters, which are only used by a minority of Chinese people, mostly in Hong Kong and some older diaspora communities. While only a minority of characters were changed, it's usually difficult for people with little exposure to both systems to switch between them confidently.

>>2809651
/pol/ pls go

Why does Japanese culture appeal to Westerners more than Chinese culture?

I am not talking about recent weeb shit and anime but something that has been going on for centuries.

Ok, serious talk.
WHY THE FUCK DOES CHINA HAVE SUCH LUDICROUS DEATH COUNTS?
Like holy fucking shit, how is this country even still standing? How did the wars they engaged in manage to kill THIS many people? What the fuck?

>>2810129
they're "more western." They're autistic about swords just like europeans, they have a feudal system just like the europeans had, they were a feared and aggressive island nation just like England, when the European powers came to Japan it was like a nostalgia trip back to the medieval era, which had been romanticized by this point. I'd be like if a crusader LARPer today discovered a hidden underground society of crusaders that maintained their traditions in isolation, they'd geek the fuck out. That's exactly what happened to europeans, Japan had that old flame that europe used to have and they recognized that and respected it.

>>2810129
Japan's bamboo curtain was only lifted by the visiting Americans. From the beginning Americans were a different kind of colonial power, unlike perfidious Albion which actively plotted to screw its trading partners over, whose arrangements with centralized, prosperous Japan proved beneficial for both parties, especially as Japan became the west's eastern bulldog, promoting the interests of the colonialist status quo and adopting ultra-nationalist states the way that they all had done.

And when it's all said and done, America let them down pretty lightly, considering their actions in World War 2, and that's further fostered friendship between Japanese and western cultures in a way that the rest of the butt-raped Sino-sphere (outside of maybe S.Korea) doesn't have.

>>2808879

why do low-info tweens keep coming here to shit up factual discussion with memes and hysterics?

is /pol/ too cancerous now that everyone there is only regurgitating the same caustic garbage? do you feel a need to migrate so you find actual discussion to disrupt again?

>>2808515
that was actually where they got the idea

>>2808651
>Chinese is fucking easy anyway, don't listen to those tards saying its so hard.
the spoken language is surprisingly easy for native english speakers because it has similar sentence structure of subject->verb->noun, but the written language is a fucking nightmare and a half.

>>2806865
LaughingPepe.jpg

>>2810216
because they always had a much higher population than the rest of the world unified into a single nation, so when that nation goes to shit there are huge death tolls

the same thing happened after the fall of the western roman empire

>>2808364
fascinating /gif/

>>2807878

No shit, there were only 100 000 mongols when Genghis Khan was alive.

>>2807372

They did, the practice was reduced after the 1911 revolution and even more after the Communists took over in 1949.

>>2808510
What the actual fuck

Next thing you know it'll turn out Lenin used to be a Mazdakite

Let's talk about the Three teachings.

>>2811512
Much of our knowledge of Manichaeism comes from China and they have a large collection of Manichaeist literature.

>>2808510
Zoroastrianism was also practised in China but it was suppressed and disappeared by the Song Dynasty.

>>2807090
Fuck. I was going to meme that.

Legalism, a philosophy born out of the Spring and Autumn Period, is unironically the most Lawful Evil philosophy to ever be used to govern a state. Legalism is what fourteen years olds imagine an Evil Empire is like, except it was real and the Qin Dynasty was governed by its principles.

anything nice was literally destroyed by communism

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>>2806617
Lu Bu

>>2806617
I’m not sure if this is badass, but here are some fun facts:
Writing history is considered as “religious activity” and “divination” practice” in ancient China, especially in Shan dynasty. For example, ”oracle bones scripts”. People recorded things is not just for people to read but also for God(or divine of the heaven) to read, the records are for showing god what they did or what they asked, they cannot bullshit around about this, otherwise the god might be pissed and failed the divination.

The bone divination was gradually stopped after Shan dynasty, but the concept or tradition of recording history is kept alive till nowadays. Therefore, the ancient history records of China are actually quite reliable mostly(not 100% of course), unlike what /pol/tards and white supremacists usually think. Even Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Mongols, central Asians and Indians have to rely on Chinese records to understand their own history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone#Shang_divination
http://www.omniglot.com/chinese/jiaguwen.htm

Also the author of “Records of Grand Historian”, Sima Qian, was “castrated” by Emperor Wu due to “Li Lin affair”. Instead of KYS, he transferred his anger and shame to write history, and he really spent rest of his life on writing history, hence we got his masterpiece-Records of Grand Historian.

>>2812663
t. Han-period Confucian.

>>2809858
Sure, here it is, it even has translation for dumbass like (((you))).
http://ctext.org/shiji

I can give your far more than just one actually, but I'm afraid you can't read them anyway.

>>2812730
The thing about the ancient Chinese historical records is that each dynasty was responsible for compiling all the sources and writing the official history of the previous dynasty. But naturally, each dynasty had a vested interest in there being a narrative of a rise, a peak, and a decline for the previous dynasty, in order to legitimize itself as the successor of Heaven's Mandate.
This is not to say that they are fantasy novels, in fact the Chinese were quite autistic about trying to make everything as accurate as possible, it's just something to keep in mind that each new dynasty would have wanted to make sure people don't read the history in such a way as to consider them to be illegitimate usurpers.

>>2812825
>>2812730
Fun historical fact.

The Republic of China, after it was established, started in 1914 to put together the compiled official history of the Qing Dynasty, as was the tradition for each dynasty to compile the complete history of the previous one.

However, the historians (over 100 of them) only got as far as publishing a 529-volume draft before they were suddenly interrupted by the civil war with the Communists and never finished.

A few decades later, the People's Republic of China started trying to finish the project, but they were suddenly interrupted by the Cultural Revolution and never finished.

To this day the History of Qing only exists in draft form.

>>2810311
why do you peeps blame everything on /pol/. We don't care about you most of the time.

>>2806965
>blame communism for creating the great famine
>Chinese have been doing this kind of shit to each other for millennia, regardless of ideology

>>2812873
Stop deflecting, /pol/

>>2812762
To be fair, Legalism is originated from Confucianism, Xun Zi school . The term "Legalism"(法家) was invented by Confucian historian in Han dynasty, there was no such category during warring states period.

>>2812844

>529-volume

The Chinese are so autistic about history and records, I love them so much. I need to fucking learn Chinese already. All this stuff makes me jelly.

>>2808257
This; surprised it isn't taught about more in Western educational systems. Absolute fucking insane war.

Most Chinese deride Westerners as "white leftists" (白左) since the refugee crisis, who are slaves to their own emotions and progressive ideology, and will ultimately cause their own downfall.

Most of those posting on /his/, can be considered as 白左. Ironically, it is also these faggots who are most enamoured with Chinese culture and history, because of how much they despise their own Western identity.

>>2812966
>Most Chinese
Read: Most Chinese netizens shitposting within the internet sphere of influence of the Chinese Communist Party and the 50 Cent Party.

>>2812966
The most accurate translation of 白左 is actually "liberals"(or libcucks) which is a relative vague and collective term with no accurate definition.

However, disliking or criticizing 白左libcucks still don't give you rights to defame and bullshit on other people's history. I don't like libcucks as well, but I don't show it by shitposting or humiliating other ethnicity, I show it by criticize libcucks directly.

Isn't Communist China just a new dynasty?

>>2813048
It sorta is 2bh

>>2812966
>Most of those posting on /his/, can be considered as 白左.
Uh, no. Baizuo refers more properly to the crazy extreme social left on college campuses, tumblr, and Kotaku. /his/ is far more centrist, and just because they keep telling you to fuck off with your cuckposting and your obsession with Holocaust denial and redpills doesn't make them baizuo.

>>2812343
I was always confused by the Chinese Buddhist practise of eating fake meat. Apparently Chinese Buddhist monasteries were dependant on the patronage of rich people; they would entertain them at the temple, and special meals in China are meat and fish. They mastered the art of making vegetables resemble meat to serve to these patrons and now it's a widespread tradition.

>>2812966
I don't think I've ever seen an unironic baizuo on 4chan apart from obvious shills. Sure there is the whole /leftypol/ vs /pol/ flame war on this board but even the former doesn't go full on "muh vagina" due to chan culture.

Though I do like traditional Chinese culture, the interest is largely grown out of special academic interest rather than excessive xenophilia. I consider myself too socially conservative to be a faggot anyways. Also I'm Korean so the whole "despise their own identity" thing doesn't fully apply to me.

>>2813100
How much influence does Chinese culture have on Korean?

>>2813100
>Also I'm Korean so the whole "despise their own identity" thing doesn't fully apply to me.

Asian Americans are the worst kind of swine. Because they are embattled in the United States, they try to invent an all-encompassing Asian American identity that co-opts from all achievements of the old continent, while in reality, the different nations of Asia are at each other's throats and would not shame themselves through such associations. Thus you have Filipino-Americans claiming Japanese culture and such atrocities.

>>2813107
A lot. I don't think Koreans deny this or claim the "true Chinese people" got wiped out by northern invaders like some Japanese do.

>>2807431

I wouldn't put it that way. It's more like, Japanese men and women are having trouble relating to one another now more than ever. Their expectations for each other are way off base with who their potential spouses actually are.

I think it's the same deal in western societies in general.

>>2813111
jesus christ, this meme that all asians are at the tip of genociding each other needs to end.

>>2813118
>"true Chinese people" got wiped out by northern invaders
The fuck? If anything those nomads got assimilated into the Han.

>>2813123
It's nip/pol/ bullshit.

>>2813084
That's really interesting and I here thought they were just being lazy Buddhists

>>2812966
>Most Chinese
So at least 1.2 billion of them?

>>2813118

Shortly after the fall of the Ming, many Jeoson intellectuals claimed that to be the true inheritors of Chinese civilization and Confucian culture, as the Manchus were Tibetan buddhist barbarians. Shortly afterwards, they were taught the error of their ways and were fucked up the ass by the Qing, becoming and became a vassal state until the 19th century.

>>2813111

> Whites are the worst kind of swine. Because they are embattled in the United States, they try to invent an all-encompassing White identity that co-opts from all achievements of the old continent, while in reality, the different nations of Europe are at each other's throats and would not shame themselves through such associations. Thus you have German-Americans claiming British culture and such atrocities.

This is why "White Nationalists" are dumber than the worst wewuz blacks. You've got perfectly good, rich, and wholesome European national history and culture brought over from the old world. Then these fuckers throw out a thousand years of heritage for a made up "white" identity created as a reactionary backlash to colored people getting the vote.

>>2813155
Yeah, they started to see themselves as China's successor but they never went as far to say all the "real Chinese people" got wiped out during the Three Kingdoms period like the Japanese do.

>>2813130
This board is full of weeaboos so some people believe this unironically. They're also obsessed with race and think ethnicity = genetics even though ethnicity also encompasses things like culture, language and shared values. According to them the Han aren't an ethnicity because they have too much genetic diversity.

>>2813164
I agree. All kinds of American are a filthy breed of mongrel who practice revisionist "we wuzism" to disgusting degrees

>>2813175
Don't all the Han have some shared ancestry anyway? It's not like the Arabs who are sometimes completely unrelated to each other in genetics.

>>2813187
Yes.

>The estimated contribution of northern Hans to southern Hans is substantial in both paternal and maternal lineages and a geographic cline exists for mtDNA. As a result, the northern Hans are the primary contributors to the gene pool of the southern Hans. However, it is noteworthy that the expansion process was dominated by males, as is shown by a greater contribution to the Y-chromosome than the mtDNA from northern Hans to southern Hans. These genetic observations are in line with historical records of continuous and large migratory waves of northern China inhabitants escaping warfare and famine, to southern China. Aside from these large migratory waves, other smaller southward migrations occurred during almost all periods in the past two millennia.[101] A study by the Chinese Academy of Sciences into the gene frequency data of Han subpopulations and ethnic minorities in China, showed that Han subpopulations in different regions are also genetically close to the local ethnic minorities, meaning that in many cases, blood of ethnic minorities had mixed into Han, while at the same time, the blood of Han had also mixed into the local ethnicities.[110] A study on Armenian admixture in varied populations found 3.9% Armenian-like DNA in some northern Chinese Han.[111] A recent, and to date the most extensive, genome-wide association study of the Han population, shows that geographic-genetic stratification from north to south has occurred and centrally placed populations act as the conduit for outlying ones.[112] Ultimately, with the exception in some ethnolinguistic branches of the Han Chinese, such as Pinghua, there is "coherent genetic structure" in all Han Chinese populace.

>>2813196
All southern Han speak of ancestors from the North. It isn't surprising at all to see DNA prove this.

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>>2813107
A tremendous amount, especially during the Ming dynasty. To omit Chinese influence from Korean history would be like Germany omitting the influence of Christianity/Greco-Roman culture. During the Ming dynasty, most of Joseon Korean intellectuals essentially had the same culture as their Chinese counterparts. They studied the same Confucian canon and were familiar with the same Three Teachings. Many considered the authority of the Korean king as ultimately stemming from the Son of Heaven in China. When the Manchus conquered China, a significant amount of officials saw restoring the Ming as the loyal duty of Korea and for casting out the northern barbarians. Even after the Qing was well established, lots of Korean scholars still secretly despised the Qing and dated the calendar on the last Ming emperor's reign.
See some of the stuff written by this guy on his travels after he got shipwrecked on China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choe_Bu
Of course, these people represented sinophilic idealism coming from Neo-Confucian ideology. Within more nationalist scholarly circles and in modern Korea, this degree of sinophilism was/is looked down upon as excessively slavish. This more nationalist way of thinking moderated the idealistic, sinophilic faction in Joseon's court politics. For example, a faction won out on the Qing Question and Joseon Korea therefore didn't commit national suicide.

There are/were still differences between Chinese and Korean cultures back then. Blood ties were much more important in Korea than China (only sons of the elite could become bureaucrat-officials: no commoners, illegitimates, or outcasts). These differences were also more apparent the less elite the level of society was. Whereas popular religion is influenced by Daoism in China, Koreans are instead influenced by a unique brand of Shamanism instead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_shamanism
And of course, a large minority of today's Korean population is Christian.

>>2807482
>Birth name: Liu Shan
>Courtesy name: Gongsi
>Infant nickname: Adou

>>2813175
Blood purity is a white nationalist meme.

>>2806822
>Great Leap Forward

>>2813213
Adou might as well be his real name though.

>>2813111
Any closeness I feel to other Asians is for Sinosphere Asians. So no, I don't see people like Filipinos as brothers in any meaningful sense. Also, I agree that the term "Asian-American" is highly nebulous and even within East Asians it's best not to be naive about cultural differences each country has.

Strangely, it's also because of exposure to Chinese stuff that I feel more affinity for Korean culture than before. I'm even less inclined to consider myself Asian-American.

Has china ever had any views on greek philosophy?

>>2813206
Of course the reluctance for Korea to intervene was reinforced by Qing pressure like >>2813155 says.

>>2808355
Except a lot did

Like Deng or Peng

>>2813111
It's pretty funny how quickly the diaspora Chinese born in Europe and America end up subsumed into culture of their countries, as quickly as within two generations. It's a huge contrast with places like Vietnam, Malaysia, and Indonesia where the Chinese have maintained their own culture, language, and identity beyond even the fourth generation, even in the face of outright hostility from the majority race.

>>2808386
Ahhhh yes /his/

Where ignorance is the norm and talking about something you don't understand is respected.

>>2808386
>>2813248
Literary/Classical Chinese was the form they used for official bureaucratic and administrative purposes, and the classical form is perfectly readable in any dialect as long as you learn the (extremely simple) grammar.

>>2806617
Han Chinese speak a wide variety of languages from the Sino-Tibetan family. It is believed the language family first developed in the Himalayas. A bunch of proto-Sinitic speakers left the mountain range and settled in the areas of what is now northern China.

>>2813255
I know that but that's because Classical Chinese isn't related to any modern vernacular form. They mentioned all different Chinese language speakers could understand each other through the Standard Chinese writing system alone (which they can't). This is why bilingualism or Mandarin monolingualism is being encouraged.

>>2812966

>Ironically, it is also these faggots who are most enamoured with Chinese culture and history, because of how much they despise their own Western identity.

[citation needed]

You realize you can learn about something and still prefer your own history, right? China is interesting. Now, it doesn't compare to Classical Greece or the Roman Republic; but it's interesting.

Also most people are less likely to know this stuff, which is a good opener to make you look interesting if you're talking to like-minded people.

But being from /pol/ and a fucking retard that barely knows his own history, I could see why you would see also learning another one as choosing sides.

Kindly die.

>>2813247
In Southeast Asia, the Chinese are aware that the majority society are culturally inferior, whereas they kiss the ass of whites, so they integrate faster in Europe and America.

>>2813263
>They mentioned all different Chinese language speakers could understand each other through the Standard Chinese writing system alone (which they can't).
You're right, I just checked the rest of the quote chain. My bad. However, the original post in >>2806858 isn't wrong in saying that the 2500 year old writing system lets those who speak different languages understand each other via writing. As long as you stick to the 2500 year old register that is.

>>2808639
Yeah and the CSA had the right to independence.

>>2813247
That's because the attitudes towards the Chinese in Vietnam and Indonesia are very hostile. They form these cultural tight communities away from everybody else for protection. The Chinese used to be like this in the United States as well, hence the Chinatowns being home to multiple generations. Now only first gen Chinese immigrants and their second gen children tend to stay there.
Places like Malaysia make race a huge deal, you have to register your ethnicity, and from a young age you are put into language classes based on your ethnicity. Contrast this with the Chinese in Thailand or Cambodia who have integrated very well and don't identify with being Chinese as much anymore.

>>2813285
The situation is more comparable to whether the Native Americans have a right to a separate nation in North America. Just like in Xinjiang, they do not.

It is the destiny of the United States to dominate the North American continent, just as it is the right of China to subjugate its ethnic component states. Natives anywhere, should be slaughtered like swine

>>2813281
I never even read or responded to that post. I don't disagree though.

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>>2813164

>I'm [enter your preferred nationality] American
>doesn't speak the language
>doesn't know the history
>has never stepped on the home ground

I won't even get into how these morons' opinion or who does or doesn't count as white changes every thread.

>they want to claim greece and rome
>mediterraneans are white!!! they came down from the north!!!
>DORIANS WERE GERMAN, BRUH

But wait! They've changed their minds now since there's a southern Europe or eastern Europe thread!

>spaniards and italians and greeks are just sandniggers that were replaced by arabs and turks
>romanians, the polish, serbs, etc. are subhuman slavs that never did anything
>finns, turks, estonians, and hungarians are dirty asians that need to leave europe and go fuck horses

It' never ends. If you point to a single achievement done by any country from the south or the east, it's because a minority of the population there happens to be "white."

Never mind Byzantium:

>they weren't the real Rome, mommy!!! they're just dumb greeks!!!

But if you talk about Turks or Arabs:

>those savages that destroyed european civilization!!!

It's also the same whenever you point to a hot black chick.

>europeans have been mixing for thousands upon thousands of years with people from africa and asia
>they're p-pure-blooded!!!
>you post a hot black girl
>she's only hot because she's got some white blood in her!!! she's mixed!!!

Ironically, it's these same neo-Nazi maggots that will then go post on their precious boards like /a/ about how amazing Japs are and how great anime is compared to "shitty" Western media is.

I would love to see some statistics on how likely it is that a weeb faggot also happens to be an autistic nationalist of some sort, being white or asian.

>>2813292
Fun fact: Up to 40% of Thai people have some Chinese ancestry

>>2813292
>and from a young age you are put into language classes based on your ethnicity
Not exactly, the Chinese were the ones who fought for and gained the privilege of having their own government-funded parallel Chinese language medium educational system (plus independent schools funded by the Chinese community) alongside the national Malay-language education system. But both the Chinese schools and the Malay schools are open to students of any race, and there's been an increase over time in Malays applying for their children to enter into the Chinese schools for their generally higher quality of education compared to the Malay schools.

You might be thinking of Singapore, where they also register your race and then make you learn both English (the national language) and your own mother tongue (whether that is Mandarin, Malay, or Tamil) in school.

>>2808804
Shang dynasty was considered mythical until the Shang Oracle bones were discovered. Simi Qian was proven right once again.

>>2813305
I love it when people think Cantonese is a dialect of Mandarin. It trigger the Cantos so hard.

>>2813307
Is it any surprise, that the most historically illiterate on /his/, are Americans, who get their history from meme historians like John Green, Howard Zinn, the History Channel?

>>2813318
Is Xia dynasty gonna be proven real too?

>>2809651
Nice argument! You sure proved him wrong and the entire history community!

>>2813325
Yu the Great was an engineer. The Chinese communist party is full of engineers. History repeats itself.

How does China have such a huge population if their entire history is filled with so much death?

>>2813325
The Xia Dynasty predated writing, so it's difficult to prove.

>>2813330
They're an old civilization with a lot of land.

>>2813330
Two major river systems + rice = labor-intensive agriculture hyperdrive

>>2813330
They have worker ant mentality and ten babies for each family.

>>2813317
Ah, I screwed up. Thanks for the correction.

>>2810129
Source?

That is purely a 1860's-present phenomenon. Before that most Europeans considered Japanese and Chinese culture to be the same thing (since they essentially were).

Furthermore, Chinese culture was LARPed in the early 1800's in Europe alongside fine china and chinese tea.

>>2813338
You're right about the Chinese treatment in Vietnam though. Vietnam has a history of hating China so of course the Chinese tend to not be well tolerated and thus much stickier when it comes to their tradition. Thai Chinese tend to identify as Thai first.

>>2811400
Do*

Chinese use honorifics in every formal setting when there is a large societal gap. Even Mao had an honorific.

>>2813324

>tfw don't know either of those people by name

Probably a good thing. I feel the stuff like the History Channel do more harm than good. History should be made entertaining, for sure, but trying to condense the a war that lasted decades or a civilization that spanned hundreds of years into a one-hour program can lead to a stupid amount of mouth-drooling retards that think they "know" history.

>>2812668
>Chinese women
Nah you've got 700 million of them

>>2813337

>not having ten children

I sure would, and with another ten wives if possible.

>>2812966
>most chinese
are the same leftist cuckolds as whitey

China has extensive amounts of social justice. It's like social justice warriors incarnate, but in a weird Asian way where gays are bad but deserve justice nonetheless.

>>2813342
I read a few primary sources which contrast Japan and China slightly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_(sailor) is also praising of the Japanese while many visitors to China were less praising.

>>2813196
You know, at least to a certain extent, the Southerners had to see some affiliation with the Northerners to allow interbreeding/settlement.

>>2813350
The Vietnamese revere dragons now but wasn't it frogs before Sinicization?

>>2813394
It was a particular mythical Turtle iirc.

>>2813263
>isn't related
But that is wrong. Classical Chinese comes from the exact same language family.

>>2813405
You think they don't know that? What they meant is that there is no relation between Classical Chinese and actual vernacular.

>>2813292
Part of it has to do with the changing meaning of what "Chinese" means. Many Thai Chinese consider themselves ethnically separate and "Chinese" but not the nationality "Chinese".

Agreed though on other countries. Ahok getting sentenced fot blasphemy scares Indonesian Chinese shitless. Many hope to leave for China before it is too late.

>>2813424
Aren't a lot of Chinese in Malaysia mixed with Malay?

>>2813429
That's the Peranakan. They invented laksa.

>>2813325
https://www.google.es/amp/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/2016/08/china-yellow-river-great-flood-xia-dynasty-yu

Maybe. They aren't sure where it is located, but surely there is evidence it existed. The question is if it was "Xia" or some random kingdom that has little to do with the Shang.

Wu Ding and Shang Oracle bones mention "ancestral territories that were lost" but no sign of "Xia Dynasty".

There are settlements from 3000-2000bc, but only one of them shows signs of "Chinese civilization". They found fragments of a written sign language as well, but it may not really even be a true written language.

The Chinese archaelogists will definitely keep looking. They find new stuff every day.

>>2813424
When will people realize that secularism is the only solution? Even those "Muslim" secular countries are chill.

>>2813405
You completely missed the point.

>>2813424
Indonesia is pretty infamous for its violence towards its Chinese community.

>>2806617
>Be Mohist, follower of Mohism, one of most important philosophies during Warring states period
>Master technician, farmer, hard worker, scientist, utilitarianist, impartial care, ultimate cosmopolitanists and pacifist who respect Gods. Oppose Confucianism.
>ALL are fearless warriors and fanatics
>Become leader of Mohism school, establish a crusader-liked militant group called “Moh Xia” whose ultimate goal is “STOP ALL WARS” in this world.
>Start building walls and sending your own troops to help the weak defending their home and cities against invaders.
>Sent 180 men to defend one small city in Chu state, but unfortunately failed in the end. To keep their honor and promise, all 180 men fought to death or suicide in the end, including their leader, Meng Sheng 孟勝.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohism#Introduction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohism#Introduction
http://ctext.org/lv-shi-chun-qiu/zh?searchu=%E5%AD%9F%E5%8B%9D

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>>2813386
You are reading selective sources. Look at how much LARPing and fascination the Romans, Byzantines, and Brits had for China. Likewise in the 1500's-1800's many assumed it was the Rome of the East.

Japan being liked more is heavily influenced by the Cold War and US propaganda 1948-present. Remember that many Americans revered China during the Nationalist period because of US propaganda. Many saw similarities between RoC and the beginning of the USA.

>>2813466
There was a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment in the U.S. and the Chinese were seen as the "good Asians". People made silly caricature posters explaining the facial differences between the Chinese and Japanese. Many Japanese people even wore "I'm Chinese" badges to escape harassment

>>2813424
Hopefully, all of the Chinese in Indonesia are slaughtered and driven to neighboring countries, and Indognesial undergoes similar economic and social turmoil as in 1998 which retards its growth.

>>2813464
Never heard of Mohism before. Super interesting.

>>2813478
How important are Chinese people to their economy?

>>2813484
Chinese people are like the backbone of many Southeast Asian economies. They've gained a similar reputation to the Jews for it.

>>2813464
There are also comics, novels and movies about their stories.
http://www3.mangafreak.net/Read1_Bokko_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokko_(manga)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Battle_of_Wits_(2006_film)

>>2813464
>In contrast to the Confucian moral ideal of ren (“humanity” or “benevolence”), which differentiated the special love for one’s parents and family from the general love shown to fellow men, the Mohists advocated the practice of love without distinctions (jianai).
So they're like hippies or something.

>>2813476
The US even had "spot the Jap" presentations to differentiate Japanese and Chinese. There's a hilarious infographic/handout from 1942 on Wikipedia.
Of course, didn't work.

>>2813484
There's a direct relationship between % of Chinese and HDI/GDP in each ASEAN country.

Not even /pol/. This is a basic fact.

>>2813500
If Mohism became a thing then China would have never lasted, right?

>>2813486
If a second 1998 happens again in Indonesia or Malaysia, it is likely that the PRC would do nothing as usual, despite all its talk about overseas Chinese owing loyalty to it. They already showed this when the Vietnamese burned down their factories a few years ago. The Chinese are cowards, and they would sell out their ethnic comrades to suck more Muslim dick of the Southeast Asian governments.

I know this is somewhat breaking the 25 year rule, but I want to discuss the chronically unacknowledged periods of recent Chinese history. I also can summarize for y'all since I am educated on these issues.

The periods are
1915-1918
1927-1937
1949-1959
1977-1981
1998-2002

>>2806858

>The Chinese never came up with the idea of crop rotation due to the way their agricultural system was structured

I can't find source on that and am not very knowledgable on agriculture, can you help plz ?

>>2813516
1. Most persecution of Chinese in ASEAN is/was implicitly backed by the USA during the Cold War.
2. Until recent years, China had little to no leverage over ASEAN. China's first real naval ships came about in the late 90's.
3. China's government has China's interests in mind. It does not sacrifice China's interests to defend overseas Chinese.
4. China's government has never demanded loyalty from overseas Chinese in ASEAN. That's a lie spouted by nationalists in ASEAN who hate Chinese and China.
5. In 2014 China stopped all foreign investment with Vietnam and nearly crashed its economy. The VPC quickly put an end to the riots and paid the Chinese companies.

Nonetheless, I understand your point. Some Chinese nationalists claim the same thing, the PRC government isn't necessarily an ethnic nationalism state. But isn't that proof that the PRC does not demand loyalty or defend every Chinese person in the world?

>>2813500
Well, sort of in some way, but not really in general. Most members are low class hard workers, technicians and farmers who actually can feed themselves, and very thrifty, pragmatic and rational. Their leaders were very emphasizing on logic, science, technology. And they developed a large amount of technics and tools of siege warfare.

Read this manga if you're interested about it.
http://www3.mangafreak.net/Read1_Bokko_1

>>2812359
Same thing happened to Christianity. The oldest form of Christianity in China is thought to be Nestorianism.

>The first documentation of Christianity entering China was written on an 8th-century stone tablet known as the Nestorian Stele. It records that Christians reached the Tang dynasty capital Xi'an in 635 and were allowed to establish places of worship and to propagate their faith. The leader of the Christian travelers was Alopen.[12]

>In 845, at the height of the Great Anti-Buddhist Persecution, Emperor Wuzong decreed that Buddhism, Christianity, and Zoroastrianism be banned, and their very considerable assets forfeited to the state.

>In 986 a monk reported to the Patriarch of the East: «Christianity is extinct in China; the native Christians have perished in one way or another; the church has been destroyed and there is only one Christian left in the land.»[14]

>Karel Pieters noted that some Christian gravestones dated from the Song and Liao dynasties, implying that some Christians remained in China

>>2813537
But also quite religious, definitely not atheists.

>>2813540
There was a fair number of Christian Mongols and during the Yuan Dynasty, Nestorian Christianity had become popular in China again. But it was eventually suppressed again.

>Nestorianism was well established in China, as is attested by the monks Rabban Bar Sauma and Rabban Marcos, both of whom made a famous pilgrimage to the West, visiting many Nestorian communities along the way.

>In 1289, Franciscan friars from Europe initiated mission work in China. For about a century they worked in parallel with the Nestorian Christians. The Franciscan mission disappeared from 1368, as the Ming dynasty set out to eject all foreign influences.

>The Chinese called Muslims, Jews, and Christians in ancient times by the same name, "Hui Hui" (Hwuy-hwuy). Crossworshipers (Christians) were called "Hwuy who abstain from animals with the cloven foot", Muslims were called "Hwuy who abstain from pork", Jews were called "Hwuy who extract the sinews".

>Jews and Muslims in China shared the same name for synagogue and mosque, which were both called "Tsing-chin sze" (Qingzhen si), "temple of purity and truth", the name dated to the thirteenth century. The synagogue and mosques were also known as "Le-pae sze" (Libai si). A tablet indicated that Judaism was once known as "Yih-tsze-lo-nee-keaou" (Israelitish religion) and synagogues known as "Yih-tsze lo née leen" (Israelitish temple), but it faded out of use.[16]

>>2813545
>It was also reported that competition with the Roman Catholic Church and Islam were also factors in causing Nestorian Christianity to disappear in China; the Roman Catholics also considered the Nestorians as heretical: «controversies with the emissaries of.... Rome, and the progress of Mohammedanism, sapped the foundations of their ancient churches.»[18]

>The Ming dynasty decreed that Manichaeism and Christianity were illegal and heterodox, to be wiped out from China, while Islam and Judaism were legal and fit Confucian ideology.[19] Buddhist Sects like the White Lotus were also banned by the Ming.

>>2813519
How did China go from Maoist totalitarianism to free market reforms?

If you forgive me for saying but even most Europeans aren't cut out for Anglo-Saxon individualism, you wouldn't expect a conformist East Asian culture where everyone was brainwashed into being commies to adopt it so readily.

>>2813429
The original 15th century Chinese migrants (around Zheng He's time, during the Ming Dynasty and the Malacca Empire) mixed with the Malays and became the Baba Nyonya. They speak Malay and don't count as Chinese in the modern reckoning.

When people talk about the Malaysian Chinese they are referring to the descendents of the much larger second wave who came during the Qing dynasty and the British Empire to work the mines and plantations for the British, as well as those Nationalists who chose to flee to Malaysia and Singapore rather than Taiwan after the fall of the Republic on the mainland. These speak a mix of Mandarin, Cantonese, Hokkien, Hakka, and other dialects, and are fiercely resistant to assimilation by the Malays.

>>2813554
>during the Qing dynasty
As well as the Republic period. Huge numbers left China during that time (the Qing considered anybody leaving China to be a traitor, but those who left were all poorfags who had nothing to lose anyway)

>>2813549
I always thought China was the least expected country to adopt communism. They were very hierarchical and superstitious.

>>2807357
Chinese AND Jewish? Man imagine how stingy they must be.

>>2813484
When the British left Malaya, the situation was basically that the Malays had a monopoly on the government and the army, the Chinese had a total stranglehold on the economy, and the Indians sort of fell into the cracks in between the two. Even after decades of racial discrimination policies and affirmative action designed to transfer wealth from Chinese to Malays and give the Malays reserved places in higher education, company ownership, and places in the administration; the Chinese are still disproportionately richer and more well off than the Malays to this day.

It's not an exaggeration to say that the Chinese have the same reputation in Southeast Asia that the Jews have in Europe and the Mediterranean.

>>2813466
>Many saw similarities between RoC and the beginning of the USA.
Better nobody tell them about the warlords and the corruption and the KMT being a Leninist-style party led by an autistic incompetent who wanted an authoritarian one party state.

Although, North American warlord states would have been pretty hilarious.

>>2813519

>1915-1918
I would love if some of you early RoC anons could fill this in for me. The WW1 period in China is barely discussed even though it is really weird. They even had someone declare himself as the new emperor for a year. Also, the Beiyang Government.
>1927-1937
Nanjing decade. Although it is written about somewhat outside of 4chan, I rarely see it discussed here other than in LARPing KMT threads full of propaganda.
>1949-1959
Barely talked about. This was the "good decade" for Mao where he wasn't batshit insane and paranoid. During this period China, despite the Korean war, grew immensely and industrialized. The PRC government separated into the State government and the Party government. The rational Chinese leaders like Deng, Peng, Zhou Enlai, and Liu Zhaoqi all struggled to control the revolutionary side led by Mao. Nonetheless, the center held and Mao played a more figurehead role during this decade. China's life expectancy and GDP rose tremendously with the help of the Soviet Union. At the same time, the success of the "moderates" and the decade convinced Mao that China was ready for the next phase of development to a Communist society. Sadly.
>1977-1981
After the fall of the Gang of Four, the next Chinese leader Hua Guofeng (who had been chosen by Mao) took control after he was convinced by the moderates that the Gang of Four did not represent Mao. Hua is forgotten in Chinese history by Westerners for many reasons, but the role he played was important since he led the transition of power back to the moderates and technocrats. He loved Mao and supported him fully, yet he also understood the damage Mao had caused. Many of the initial Chinese economic, cultural, and political reforms began with him in 1977-1978. Eventually in 1980, Deng Xiaoping outmaneuvered Hua politically and convinced him to retire from politics. With this move, the 20 year era of Deng began alongside extensive Chinese economic reforms.
Cont*

>>2813532
I thought the Chinese government actually said that overseas Chinese have a loyalty to the nations they live in rather than China itself.

>>2813587
I've heard them saying something similar to that as well.

>>2813574
Yeah but the Chinese earned their money the hard way. Many Jews made their living through differences in religious economics. The Chinese succeeded because of economic and linguistic connections with the mainland. The comparison is not perfect because of this fact.

>>2813587
They did.

Doesn't stop idiots and ASEAN nationalists to claim the opposite. Many people think the PRC is some weird Han nationalism fascist group. In many ways, the Communists (the true ones) are the least pro-Han government in Chinese history. Affirmative action, differences in birth policy, economic transfers, and guaranteed government positions are all benefits for minorities in China.

Of course, Xi has been getting rid of some of this bullshit. It still continues to an extent, just like in the USA, though.

>>2813592
>Many Jews made their living through differences in religious economics.
The Europeans basically fucked themselves with this policy.
>Dealing with money is a sin so let's have the Jews handle it!
>Why the fuck do Jews control handle all the finances now?

>>2813603
Don't forget the Nazis denouncing "Jewish physics" which slowed down their own scientific progress.

What is your favorite Chinese dynasty and why?

>>2813585
>1977-1981
Cont*
Hua helped establish many of the initial economic, cultural, and political reforms to pull China away from the Maoist system. Deng didn't just pop up and completely change China in a few years.

Also, Hua Guofeng ended the cultural revolution and began an extensive protection/reconstruction program for Chinese historical/cultural sites. What's odd is that Hua loved Mao as much as anyone and always supported him... and yet he understood Mao's excesses.
Deng worked with Hua, and built off his successes in the 1980-1992 period. Deng is extremely interesting, but I think he has been extensively covered on /his/ and outside /his/.
Fun fact: Deng never held a true position of power in the PRC government. His political power all emanated from his political genius and ability to form coalitions. He also was the one who made the final decision to put down the June 1989 protests. Quite an important decision.

>1998-2002
I don't think I've seen one thread on this period in Chinese history because it is breaking the 25 year rule and is seemingly boring. But I'll write a big post about it in a moment. Cont*

>>2813622
MIGHTY HAN
REKT THE XIONGNU

>>2813623
>He also was the one who made the final decision to put down the June 1989 protests. Quite an important decision.
I
If I had to live through the Cultural Revolution and see all the bullshit the Red Guards pulled that set China back a decade, I too might have decided to respond to mass student unrest with the Red Army.

>>2813622
Ming, although the mid-Qing is growing on me.
Nothing can beat the Yongle emperor executing thousands of people through death by a thousands cuts in the Forbidden city and eunuchs for plotting to overthrow him.
Straight up metal.

Furthermore, muh giraffes in Beijing must've been one of the weirdest events in history.

>>2813500
I think they're more like proto-communists, the only difference is they still believe in Gods. Modern CCP members are quite fond of them.

>>2813632
Are the Xiongnu supposed to be the Huns or what? It seems like no one can identify who they were.

>>2813633
As far as the few sources and rumours we've heard from Deng's counterparts in the government have written, his decision was the most difficult of his life. After fighting through the entire Chinese civil war, battling the Japanese, fighting in Korea, seeing the failure of the GLF, getting expelled and thrown in prison during the Cultural Revolution, and still being alive to save China... he really must've seen his life and China's history fly past his eyes before he made that decision.

I do think it is something Western historians and analysts barely acknowledge. Why? Because Deng is seen as the "good" Chinese leader. He helped flip China to the USA side in the Cold war, reopened China to the outside world, and enabled loosening of China's cultural controls (le freedom).

His decision completely changed China's path, and has created today's situation. I actually don't think he believed the protesters to be bad people or "red guards." He just knew that what is right is not necessarily what is correct.

People say Chinese people lack many freedoms but isn't it the same as living in Imperial China? I don't think you had many "freedoms" back then either.

>>2813665
Pretty much. They just replaced the emperors with the CCP.

>>2813641
Huns is the most used identification but there really is no consensus.

>>2813651
Where would China be today if it hadn't responded with force to the protests? With the government have collapsed? Would China be a giant Taiwan? Or are there too many factors to play the "what if" game?

>>2813680
China is much larger and more diverse than Taiwan. Trying rapid industrialization without an iron fist and the "socialist characteristics" would be hard as fuck. China would have very slow development and it'd still be suffering pretty badly after undergoing all those wars. I guess the environment wouldn't be shitted up with pollution though. People could actually breathe the air without getting cancer 30 years down the line.

>>2813623
>1998-2002

The setting for this 5 year period is the key to understanding it.
At the time, China's government was controlled by the conservative faction of the Communist party. Jiang Zemin was at the top of his game during this time. Li Peng, a conservative, was also in power. But the 1997-1998 Asian financial crisis had hurt China's economy, although it still was growing 7-9% each year.
This is when Zhu Rongji comes into play...
Zhu became the premier of China in 1998 and he spearheaded the reforms that Jiang and Peng were wary of. He pushed for the "marketization" of China and the increase of political reforms to give the people more of a voice.

Zhu is known for being popular among the middle-class of China and the reformers since he chose to negotiate with the protesters in 1989 instead of ordering the army to end the protests. (Although he did order the executions of some for destroying property). Rongji's reforms occurred during a period of economic slowdown and growing inequality in China, in 1998, 1999, and 2000 China's economy continuously slowed. The heavy industry sector and SOE's all performed worse because of the growth in private business and economic changes. This is where that one famous Chinese movie "beyond the tracks" comes from.

His reforms led to the public share of GDP going from 50% to 20% in just 5 years. These years are when the "iron bowl" system of privilege for government workers ended and the pension/welfare system was essentially gutted. Jiang did not necessarily support these reforms because he feared the political problems, yet he understood the inefficiencies of the Chinese economy. What's odd is that China's economy slowed while the US economy grew 4-5% in 1999-2000.

Rongji's reforms also shifted China from a consumption-led economy to a more export-led economy. This ushered in the 1999-2012 period of Chinese economic history.

There was just one catch to Zhu Rongji's reforms... they didn't work perfectly.