Is the political spectrum still worth using in the modern age?

>>2806359
You have to tie it up with a specific political event in order for it to at least be sensible.

>>2806359
No, it's an extremely simplistic reduction of a much more complex reality. For example, the image you linked is absurd. Classical liberals and fascists are as different from each other as either is from "leftists".

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>>2806359
Spectrum? No. Compass? Maybe.

The real question is: How many axes are necessary?

>>2806359
>identity politics
>left and right

>>2806409

It's not absurd because they're both considered right wing. I mean thats kind of the point of what I'm asking. Is it still worth using distinctions like "left wing" or "right wing" if both classical liberals and monarchists are considered right-wing? Even on a spectrum it seems inaccurate.

>>2806359
Your pic conspicuous leaves out neoliberalism which I presume would go in the left wing camp.

>>2806359
not really no, it made sense in the nineteenth century when it was essentially a scale of the level to which one opposed the traditional social order.

the problem is we've moved way beyond the social order that pertains to, so ideologies like neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism make no sense, since they opposed the existing established order back in the 70s, but weren't left wing.

also there are a tonne of other perfectly valid metrics to compare ideologies with that are moreinformative

>>2806359
No. It hasn't even been relevant since the French Revolution.

>>2806479

I agree. It only makes sense in the context of monarchism vs democracy, or varying forms. The various other applications of left and right wing just seem really illogical.

the only way you simplify it would be

left = social change
right = status quo

>>2806522
So was Trump left wing and Obama Right wing?

>>2806416
intervention v. laissez faire
dovish v. hawkish
globalist v. nationalist (different from dovish v. hawkish)
libertarian v. traditionalist
aristocracy v. democracy

this about does it

interventionist dovish nationalist centrist democrat here

>>2806359
https://8values.github.io/

>>2806534
>globalist v. nationalist
silly, false divide. should be internationalist vs nationalist

>>2806562
globalist socialists fuck off

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>>2806569
no

>>2806562
>internationalist vs nationalist
silly, false divide. should be cosmopolitan vs nationalist

>>2806572
>cosmopolitan
dog whistle for "jew", next.

>>2806571
>let's immediately turn around after the revolution and conquer other nations in the name of """"liberty"""" instead of letting them decide what they want for themselves!

this is what capitalists think, jsyk

>>2806576
No socialist worth their salt would pretend that socialism can be anything other than an international system. Socialism means liberation for the people. Capitalists have conquered innumerable nations in the pursuit of profit, a far more damaging goal. And in any case, socialists support national liberation movements.

>>2806595
Socialism works best in small groups of people. History shows that the more people a socialist country has the shittier it is.

If we ignore special snowflakes like anarchists, fascists and reactionaries, it's pretty easy to distinguish left from right.

Left = Centralization of political power, in the name of equality

Right = Descentralization of political power, in the name of liberty

>>2806595
>there's literally no way to do anything about corporations racing to move productive capital out of the country to the detriment of its citizens, and you're an idiot/evil if you think that could be a problem

>>2806600
This. National Socialism is the best form of Socialism.

>>2806359
You're either a Scientologist or a Mormon, it's one or the other.

>>2806574
>every word I don't like is a dog whistle for "jew"
Just because many Jews are cosmopolitan doesn't mean newspeak should censor the word as a "dog whistle." Cosmopolitan is a perfectly legitimate political term on par with internationalist and globalist.

>>2806603
Not only is leaving those groups out arbitrary, but not a single leftist wants "centralization of political power in the name of equality" as an endgame. If anything, the left romanticizes horizontalism.

No, the true way to measure governments is a scale of economic authoritarian vs economic libertarian.

>>2806534
The problem is different freedoms are considered liberal or conservative which is retarded.

Freedom of association and firearms rights are considered "right wing", freedom of buttfucking and privacy are considered "left wing"

>>2806603

What about centralization of political power in the name of national achievement?

>>2806676
on a single axis system, yes, because you are forced to associate one with left and one with right. But think of freedom itself as an axis, and it all works out

>>2806562
Transnationalist v nationalist imho

>>2806359
>>2806416
Compasses are objectively the most accurate way of representing someone's ideology.

I'm prepared for top-right rage

>>2806562
This.

>>2808016
>objectively

Disregarded

>>2806603
>If we ignore special snowflakes like anarchists, fascists and reactionaries
And the historical context in which the left/right divide emerged. Or were monarchist loyalists advocating a decentralization of power in the name of liberty?

It's pretty fucking simple it's just burgers who don't know shit about the French Revolution have obscured the whole thing.

left = opposition to hierarchy / support for egalitarianism

right = support for hierarchy / anti-egalitarian

The latter being able to include retarded /pol/ sperg racial theories or more normie shit like defending wealth inequality.

>>2806562
You can be both nationalist and -inter-nationalist. (internationalist =/= a-nationalist)

>>2806600
You're thinking of communes and you are indeed right. That's doesn't mean communes can't cooperate with each others.

you have to isolate it between country and time period

liberal capitalism is only conservative in modern America for instance. If you go to a communist country then communism is conservative.

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>>2808058
>left = opposition to hierarchy

The real divide is equity vs equality. If a leftist sees an uneven distibrution of power in the civilian population, he will intervene. Meanwhile, a right-winger will not intervene as long as no one's basic rights aren't being infringed.

>>2808486
To be fair, a strong government != a heirarchy. A heirarchy typically refers to a pecking order between civilians. The Soviets were thoroughly against heirarchies amongst the people.

>>2806465
>neoliberalism
>left wing
get a load of this moron! roflcopter

>>2811088
>neoliberlism
>rightwing
Nice joke kid.

>people who want to make society more hierarchical on the right
>people who want to make it less so on the left

Seems like a pretty sensible distinction desu.

Anything we can model in a way we humans can perceive won't be high enough dimensionally to accurately convey the complexities of politics. Why try? What we have vaguely works and is recognizable.

>>2811161
A Social Darwinist obsessed with racial purity would have little in common with a traditionalist Catholic yet both are right wing.

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>>2806359
>Monarchists.
>Right.

Depends.

If you're a monarchist due to some nationalist reason, you are in the right alright. You are also not a real monarchist as you're trying to subject the monarchic dynasty into a national identity ideal.

If you're a monarchist because you believe the dynasty is the end-all of the country, the only one that can hold all factions, creeds, and ethnicities in the state altogether, then you're neither left or right.

>>2811215
>If you're a monarchist due to some nationalist reason, you are in the right alright
>If you're a monarchist because [nationalist reason], then you're neither left or right

???

Analyze politics and history cladistically. Realize how many seemingly disparate political philosophies all boil down to common lines of descent, and how seemingly weighty philosophical conflicts between groups often boil down to age-old intra-ethnic power struggle.

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>>2811359
>[nationalist reason]
Lmao.

This is a nationalist reason.
>The Monarchy must be British! Change your dynasty's name to something Anglo.
This is a monarchist reason.
>Nationalism would just lead to our Empire divided into numerous shitty nations that would just murder each other. Only the Monarch could prevent this from happening.

>>2806359
>ancap
>left

>>2806359
I'm a traditionalist, progressive, who leans pacifist anarchist but also leans radical centrist.

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>>2806608
nice b8 m8

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>>2806608
NazBol G A N G

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>>2806608

>>2806416
>iron fist consumerist
Would make a great name for a comedy punk band

>>2811869
I assume that anon meant the Strasser branch of national socialism

>>2811869
To be fair the guy probably meant Strasserism, not Hitlerism

>>2808486
Opposite endgames, authoritarianism is a tool for ML's to progress from capitalism, to socialism, then finally to communism