Why does it seem so hard for some to accept some civilizations

I feel like you're someone who doesn't have any particular interest in history but you just want to get into some kind of ideological dick waving contest with crazy lefties.

No it is not Eurocentric to say that China or Japan were more advanced than Mali but I doubt you've ever read a book about any of those societies so I don't know how it matters.

political correctness

>>2782957
The societies and civilizations of Africa are rooted first and foremost as Pastoralists societies with key niche populations arising and then out populating Pastoralists peoples. But both groups relied and vied for power over one another.

Without Pastoralists the manure farmers found necessary to survive away from the alluvial soil replenished annually would be all but impossible but without grains or crop stubble no herding group, not even Tuareg could survive in their numbers.

The civilizations of the Sahelian are NOT comparable to Egypt or China or Rome or Greece. Those civilizations are rooted first and foremost with agriculture in very fertile river bottoms were agriculture came before and developed much longer than in the Sahelian in the post-Neolithic Subpluvial.

>>2782957
Because people were sick of European powers dehumanizing non european peoples just because they didnt live up to European standards of civility.

This from peoples who slaughtered each other incessantly without compunction since the fall of the Roman Empire.

>>2782957
>there are always some people to claim the empires in western africa were as advanced as their europeans contemporaries.

They were at certain points in history.

>>2782989
I'm actually really interested in Japan and China history. For Africa, I didn't read much, but what I read always was disappointing. Due to the lack of sources I have the feeling historians have to recreate african history thanks to myths, tales, stories from travelers which are always exaggerate.

>>2783056
>They were at certain points in history.

This.

If anything, Mali was more advanced than Anglo-Saxon England in the 11th century.

>>2783066
>I have the feeling historians have to recreate african history thanks to myths, tales, stories from travelers which are always exaggerate.
This simply isn't true. Where are you getting this idea?

For starters try the works of John K. Thornton, he's the foremost historian on medieval central Africa and he doesn't do anything like what you just described. His book entitled Warfare in Atlantic Africa 1500-1800 is particularly highly thought of and can be found for free online.

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>>2782957
>When I see a thread about Africa, there are always some people to claim the empires in western africa were as advanced as their europeans contemporaries. And basically, if you disagree with this, it's because of eurocentrism.

Nobody here ever says that. What happens is an idiot comes in and says there was NO civilization and that we all need to bow down to the gods of white nationalism and encourage racism against the "negro menace"(and somewhere along the thread Detroit and IQ somehow always get brought up). Then we have to tell them for the 100th time that there were in fact civilizations many of which were far more advanced than people give them credit for.

>>2783123
this

>>2783123

Reddit detected. That or a reddit CIA nigger.

>>2783864
>What happens is an idiot comes in and says there was NO civilization and that we all need to bow down to the gods of white nationalism and encourage racism against the "negro menace"(and somewhere along the thread Detroit and IQ somehow always get brought up).
I hope you realize (You)'re apart of the idiots he was referring to

>>2783886
To be fair to him. I forgot to mention the "everything that isn't /pol/ is Reddit or /leftypol/" brigade.

>>2783123
>advanced
>black civilization

Pick one, there has yet to be a single nigger civilization with architecture on par with the very first white civilization the Minoans of Crete.

>>2783123
this

The people that post about African history are patricians who don't make posts about "which civilization is better: X or Y?"

Patricians study history because it gives us the greatest stories ever told.

Plebs abuse it so that they can use it to justify the existence of their cancerous ideologies.

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>>2784399
Tell me more about how Jared Diamond is part of the international jewish conspiracy

>>2783054
>Because people were sick of European powers dehumanizing non european peoples just because they didnt live up to European standards of civility.

If they don't want to be held to the standards of European civility, then they can get the fuck out and go back to Africa, where they can rape and eat each other to their hearts content, judgement free.

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>>2784399

>>2783096
A bunch of half-naked spear chuckers are not the equivalent of fucking middle ages Britain I don't care how much fucking gold they have.

>>2784447
>spear chucking
How stupid are you?

>>2784441
Ok well theres that but not more advanced than Roman architecture.

>>2782957
I actually get mad when someone claims Great Zimbabwe, a meme collection of huts encircled by a wall, was some great civilization when Sardinians were building more complex structures 3000 years before that.

>>2784450
How stupid are you that you think Mali was more advanced than the Anglo -Saxons in the 11th century?

>>2784459
>not more advanced than Roman architecture.
You're still under the impression that people are arguing this. No one is. They're just saying that Africans weren't cave-dwellers across the board. How difficult is it for you to identify nuance?

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>>2784461
Nuragic Sardinians actually had aqueducts, giant statues, hydraulic implants, arches, primitive sewers and baths.

And even if we compare the Nuraghi themselves to the enclosure at Zimbabwe, the Zimbabwe tower isn't even a tholos as far as I know, while Nuragics could build towers with up to 3 aereal tholoi on top of eachother.

>>2784529
>They're just saying that Africans weren't cave-dwellers across the board
But they were anon, most of nigger kind were stone age spear chuckers for most of human history.

>>2782957
>Why does it seem so hard for some to accept some civilizations were less advanced than others?
It's not but the same people get mad when you point out that China was ahead of Western Europe for nearly all of history.

>Europeans invaded the whole world, but were still able to see that some civilizations were more advanced than others
Spaniards (before they spread diseases to wipe out the natives) admitted that the native architecture was just as good as their own so I agree.

>>2784555
>proving once again that you don't know anything about history.
You don't belong on this board.

>>2784467
The Mali weren't spear chuckers, they had cities, trade, intensive agriculture and pastoralism, they could field 10000s of cavalry, they were easily in the same ball park as Anglo-Saxon Britain, read more books.

This is coming from someone who gets triggered by virtue signalling liberals who expect me to believe le zimbabwe stone circle is equal to the taj mahal.

>>2784435
/pol/tards can't evenshitpost right.

>>2784467
He's less stupid than you, that's for damn sure

>>2784461
I agre, that and also the mudhut mosque from Mali is even worse

>>2782957
Depends on the time you are talking about. Some African civs did reach parity with some European civs but were ultimately left in the dust. Would you say thats a fair statement?

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>>2784620
>I agre, that and also the mudhut mosque from Mali is even worse
I like it.

>>2784597
>they had cities, trade, intensive agriculture and pastoralism
So did the Anglo-Saxons, the fact they could gather loads of cavalry just means they were bigger with more people, not that they were more advanced. I mean it's probably a safe bet the Malians could gather more cavalry than the Republic of Venice in the 12the century, are we going to start claiming they're more advanced than them too?

>they were easily in the same ball park
That's great (debatable, but whatever that's not the point), but anon claimed they were more advanced.

>>2784604
I'm not shitposting, that's my genuine opinion. If you're going to undermine the standards of Western civilization by pretending that the culture of some cannibal that spends his day scratching his bare ass and shooing away flies is of equal value, then I strongly encourage you to go live with the fucking heathens in Africa.

>>2784694
>tfw your genuine opinions have the value of a shitpost

>>2784719
Welcome to 4chan, enjoy your stay and complimentary accusation of faggotry

>>2784694
You're so dense enlightenment bends around you.

>>2784413
He's not, but he is an amateur night hack writing
commie inspired shit though.

>>2784450
It's a euphemism for nigger, or boogie, or kafir, you double brainlet.

>>2784653
It was built by the French in 1906.

>>2784604
He's not wrong

>>2785378
Why would he complain about spear chuckers in the fucking middle ages?

>>2785021
The "enlightenment" was a mistake.

>>2785387
Civilized man does not chuck spears, he uses them in formation or on horseback.

>>2784562
>It's not but the same people get mad when you point out that China was ahead of Western Europe for nearly all of history.
I don't think it's that hard to admit. Japan too was on par with Europe on some aspects. But those who focus on african History seems desesperate to prove it was so much more advanced than what we'd expect.

>>2784399
>Minoans
>white

They weren't black either so don't go WE on me. Also, it's interesting to note that West Africa mostly slipped the Bronze Age and went straight for Iron.

>>2785653
It's a good thing the Malians did then.

>>2786295
>Minoans weren't white
Okay fucking what now?

>>2784555
You know who else was stone age tier for most of humanity? NEARLY EVERY HUMAN BEING THAT HAS EVER LIVED. The only stone age humans in Africa were a select group of racially distinct hunter gatherers who were by large the minority. Most of Africa was either populated by pastoralists, farmers, traders, or any combination of the three.

>>2786306
You heard me. Oh sure, they were certainly Caucasians and Europeans, but they weren't "white", you know what I mean? They were Mediterranean people, and Mediterraneans are usually darker than most Europeans (though that's not to say that there weren't fair ones).

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>>2785653
But javelins are highly effective weapons and were used by both 11th century Malians and 11th century Anglo-Saxons.

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>>2786345
>Mediterraneans aren't white
Why is (((somebody))) consistently pushing this meme?

>>2786351
Not all of the women looked like that. And fuck your implied "hurr kike" meme, I think Jews are white/Caucasian too thanks to slumming it up in Europe for 2000 years.

If you want, you can think of this like how Middle Easterners are Caucasian and can sometimes have light skin (especially the women who stay inside all day long, just like your Minoans), but they aren't "white" the same way your average Greek or Anatolian Turk isn't "white". I guess you can chalk this up to being good ol' American racial autism.

>>2785379
It was rebuilt in 1906 after it had fallen into disrepair, but it had existed long before that.

And the French didn't rebuild it, they just ordered for it and financed the reconstruction. The actual construction was done by local labourers and was directed by a local mason.

>>2786376
>Jews are white
>Mediterraneans aren't white
wew

>>2786345

Do you know what a tan is ?

It's consistently seen in wall paintings and frescoes all across the meditarenia.

Hiding from the sun was practices by females exclusively as darker skin was seen as unappealing - that tradition still exist in korea and india.

While man, working during the day were far darker.

If you stick a meditarenian person in northern europe - he will look far whiter than back home.

>>2786379
>and was directed by a local mason.
...but designed to imitate a french cathedral.

Boy, I'm glad we're here in /pol/. How embarrassing would it have been had I accidentally thought I was browsing /his/.

>>2785637
The "enlightenment" is why you can post here rather than doing farmer work to survive.

>>2783056
No they just weren't. At it's maximum height of power, the empire of Mali or the empire og Songhai wouldn't have even had a chamce of winning in a war against the Italian city states or a big european feudal monarchy.

>>2782957
Well most of human history people were living in tiny communities with basically no technology at all, regardless if they were Europeans or Africans.

What you should be asking yourself is why you would take the anomaly(e.g the technocratic Western civilization), and judge the rest of the world by it's standard, when the West has basically only been more technologically advanced than the rest of the world for 400 years.

>>2783123
WE

>>2786807
He meant civilizations from West Africa.

>>2786427
Fuck off nigger lover

>>2786844
t. Cletus

>>2786844
Seriously, do people like you even like history? Or do you just like to say that you're superior to everyone else and that's it?

>My kangz were better than your kangz so let's not talk about your kangz

cultures have no hierarchy
advanced sure, but the avarage polfag will instantly turn this into a better worse relation which is false in this matter

its pretty shitty that this whole cultural thing got a political shade thanks to ideoligies

>>2786809
WUZ

>>2786345
Minoans have the same facial structure as Europeans making them white.

>>2787191
therefore latinos are white too.

>>2786844
Yeehaw!

You tell dem der doggone yankee bastards!

>>2786765
Speak for yourself peasant.

>>2787195
No you can see some Amerindian facial traits in spics.

>>2784447

Someone is mad.

>>2787709

You can also see Arabic features in Spaniards, including their language.

(((Some people))) try very hard to keep race and "racist" talk under control.

The only reasons why people would say Mediterraneans are the same race as germanic Europeans, are either a mixed racial person like many americans, or we wuzzers trying to claim Greece and Rome as 'muh ancestors'.

>>2787762
We wuzzing is comparing ourselves to collective races like blacks and asians.

>>2787762
t. Jew

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>>2787829
>>2787799

>>2783043
Any suggested reading?

>>2783099
Thanks!

>>2787855
In a debate when European ethnicities come into question we wuzzing is no longer valid.

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>>2784459

>>2787799
>collective races

Bullshit. Just like the entire idea behind 1 race per continent theory.

Germans are not Celts who are not Slavs who are not Mediterraneans. Anybody who tried to group these different races into one single race is a moron who was Americanized.

>>2787967
This is based on genetic distances anon.

All Europeans make a collective Europid type human.

>>2787980

Found the eastern-european or the Iberian trying to piggyback on the more successful races in europe.

>>2788091
>>2787980

Or the New World colonial trying to put europes races into a blender so they match up with him, for we wuz purposes.

>>2788091
He's not wrong

All Europeans cluster closer to each other than anyone outside Europe

Everyone from Ireland to Russia to Italy

>>2788091
>piggyback
No you imbecile it is a collective human grouping. Serbs and Poles dont give a solitary shit about the Romans.

>>2788113

That's because of the EU and NATO.

>>2788123
>No you imbecile it is a collective human grouping. Serbs and Poles dont give a solitary shit about the Romans.

Then they are not apart of the same collective human grouping as the Iberians or Italians or whatever, genetics be damned (that's just one factor). Those two cultures you mentioned are closer to Turkey than to France.

>>2788148
Collective grouping anon, we are all Europid type humans. Also you are braindead if you think Spaniards are closer to a Turk than a German.

The Euros closest to middle easterners are the Macedonians.

>>2787980
>>2788113
Sven, you don't get to claim the accomplishments of the Romans and Greeks, they're not you ancestors.

>>2788156

No, Poles and Serbs are closer to Turkey is what I meant.

>>2788156
Anon, you don't get to draw the line ethnic groupings based on arbitrary lines you invented.

>>2785021
Wtf since when (((enlightment))) means deluding yourself with lofty idea?

>>2788160
In a racial debate between blacks and whites we wuzzing is allowed dumbass,

In a racial debate between Europeans it is not allowed.

>>2788235
>In a racial debate between blacks and whites we wuzzing is allowed dumbass,

Why?

>>2788255
Because its black vs white big genetic groups not on the ethnicity which is Europeans.

>>2784670

How many cities did anglo-saxon England have? The Malians likely had more.

>>2788265

Are you counting 'olive skinned' (brown) Mediterranean people as white?

Are you counting light-skinned middle-easterners as white?

>>2784694
But he was comparing medieval African civilizations with medieval European civilizations, not modern.

>>2785718
Well it was, when you consider that the /pol/acts on /his/ think that most sub-Saharan Africans were living in the stone age

>>2788278
White is a genetic grouping not skin color idiot.

>>2788334

What do you mean by 'genetic grouping'? Do you mean Aryan?

>>2788269
Proofs?

>>2788343
No one here brought up "Aryans" but you jackass.

>>2788364


So I'm guessing here. but Mali is bigger, and the anglo-saxons didn't exactly have too much in the way of cities afaik. They had London, but that was kinda a semi-independent almost city-state entity that was leftover from Roman times. So I'm not counting London as 'anglo-saxon'.

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>>2783066
>I have the feeling
that's where you fucked up my friend

>>2788235
Wow, holy shit looks like we got the we wuz police on our ass.

Say again, who wrote the laws on we wuzzism? Who's the ultimate authority of we wuzziterians?

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>>2784447
>A bunch of half-naked spear chuckers are not the equivalent of fucking middle ages Britain I don't care how much fucking gold they have.

>>2788509
Dude, by the time blacks had reached that level of development whitey was well on his way to owning two thirds of planet. And even that assumes that picture is accurate, which I doubt.

>>2788523

Are you saying the person who painted that picture had an agenda?

>>2788532
They might have, I really can't say for certain.

>>2788523
By the time "whitey" was starting crawl out of their shitty wood huts middle easterns, Indians and the Chinese had developed advanced city states and empires that wouldn't be rivaled for two millennia. What's your point?

>>2788577
Noooo you're not playing by my view of history where Europe was all white people who had the same goals and Africa was full of mud farmers but don't count Northern Africa because that's not real Africa

>>2788600
Hold on, your sarcasm is not coming across properly. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

>>2788624
I can't tell who's being sarcastic here, I thought I was being pretty obvious in my sarcasm.

>>2788649
It's the "who had the same goal" line that's confusing me. I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean and what relevance it has to the discussion.

>>2788532
Not necessarily an agenda, but unless proven otherwise there's no reason to assume the artist actually saw the city first hand rather than working from second or their hand accounts and simply drawing a European idea of what a city in Africa would look like.

Sort of like those old European illustrations of "Japan" that are just drawings of European villagers labeled "Japanese people".

>>2788577
That darky still hasn't crawled out of his wood hut even today.

>>2788659
Mostly that "whitey" has never been a concept in European history and their goals as nations have rarely if ever aligned

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>>2788693
Firstly, it's mud hut when talking about Africa, get your insults straight.

Second, pic related.

Thirdly, if you say this is invalid because they got it from whites, remember that Europeans got advanced civilization from Mesopotamia and Egypt, almost two thousand years after they developed it independently. Even later if talking about northern Europe.

>>2784399
>>2784399
United States of America, blacks pretty much built this country and they're still immensely important

>>2788713
Oh alright, I see it now. Carry on.

>>2786867
>cultures have no hierarchy

Different cultures have different values and different values cause societies to perform differently. Cultural relativism is purely theoretical viewpoint.

>>2788713
>It's a whitey somehow ever noticed that niggers have black skin and kinky hair until George Wallace invented slavery in the 1950s episode

>>2788739
>Firstly, it's mud hut when talking about Africa, get your insults straight.
Why you gots to be racist fo'?

>>2788779
>shitposting as if this board is /pol/
You have to go back.

>>2788739
HOL' UP
So you be saying Egyptians built Notre Dame an' sheeeit?

>>2788789
He was the one saying Africans have to live in mudhuts not me.

OP doesn't know about Civilization.

>>2788779
Hey it's not racist, it's just truth

If anything, I've always found funny how people use mud hut as an insult, when mud is actually a really good building material. It has good insulation, it lasts for long and you can find it literally anywhere. Brick and concrete buildings are basically just glorified mud huts anyway. I'm honestly more puzzled why wooden huts became a thing in the first place

>>2788805
You are the one that descended into autistic trolling and responded with a non-argument. You have your own containment board for that.

>>2784694
Maybe you shouldn't have dragged them halfway across the world and made them conform to your way of life :^)

>>2790064
Our second biggest mistake ranked only after giving women the vote.

>tfw extending the franchise to literal niggers is less destructive to a society than extending it to the feminine jew.

>>2788577
t. john green

>>2790064
Only a minority of blacks from Africa even became slaves, the majority of them were free and still didnt create jackshit comparable to Eurasian civlizations at that time.

>>2782957
>When I see a thread about Africa, there are always some people to claim the empires in western africa were as advanced as their europeans contemporaries

Bull fucking shit

Show some proof thats not an obvious /pol/ false flag

Its the other way around 99% of the time

>>2783043
>only africa had pastoralists
>west africa didn't have settled farmers

Why people go on the history board to express their disdain for niggers I will never understand

All civilizations without an alphabet can safely be ignored

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You see all this land not occupied by civilizations in Africa?

>>2790852
fuck off reddit

>>2790875
They don't actually care about history, most of the time they're just looking to cherrypick information that confirms their shit ideology.

>>2790879
>he needs pictures that mean simple sounds to make a language

Logographs are the true height of linguistic human intelligence.

>>2786848
>>2786849
>>2787433
>baiting /his/ is this easy

may as well be /pol/ at this point

>>2790893
>a board about history values quality discussion about history.
Who would have thought?

>>2790909
Where can I find this board it sounds nice.

>>2790875
We don't come to here to express our disdain or niggers , we come to here to discuss history but unfortunately history seems to be full of niggers.
>Babe Ruth was a nigger
>Beethoven was a nigger
>Shakespeare was a nigger
>Hannibal was a nigger
>Egyptians were niggers
It's niggers all the way down!

>>2790915
It's this board, in a hypothetical utopia in which /pol/tists are wiped from existence.

>>2790940
>leaving the board in the hands of communists
Yeah, I'll bet you'd like that Red.

>>2790950
>your thought process never fails to default to extremism
Actual subhuman.

>>2790932
>Babe Ruth
Literally who

>>2790972
Says the guy that dreams of wiping out only one half of the ideologues that drive discussion on /his/.

>>2790976
The guy that invented the candybar.

>>2790979
Disliking the neckbeards most responsible for shitting up the board doesn't make someone a commie. You should program your thoughts to take grey areas into account when interpreting information, it could help you with your learning disability.
That being said, this is mostly bantz, but there is a glimmer of truth to it nonetheless.

>>2787860
"Cattle before Crops PDF" Google that and go from there reading into the African Neolithic.

>>2788746
>the United States is made of cotton and tobacco

>>2790885
>cherrypick information
Yea we all agree blacks love to do that

>>2785021
I raise you the dark enlightenment :^)

>>2786350
those are normans you retard, who infact pioneered lances on horseback

>>2786765
>implying being a peasant is a bad thing
faggot

>>2788509
Am I supposed to be impressed by that ""village""?
Also, drawn by a white man. Niggers, for all their so-called civilization see the only depiction of their "great city" made by a foreigner

>>2787855
Can you fags even meme right? The whole joke of the original picture is that the coon has a radically different facial structure that the sarcophagus face. Germs and Meds, however have the same fucking structure, because they are both Caucasoids

>>2787433
>City boy saying how much he hates rednecks and because it's such a bad thing to be a bigot.jpg

>>2786849
I like history for the fun of history. I also see that history does in fact show Europe to be superior to the rest of the world, because they seem to have fucking conquered the rest of the world while simultaneously kicking each other's shit in.
Seriously, how pathetic is the rest of the world when the conquering and subjugation of their lands was basically just a sideshow to European war

>>2784694
>I'm not shitposting, that's my genuine opinion.
>I'm not even pretending. I'm honestly retarded.

>>2791976
Good post kiddo.Niggers are inherently incapable of creating a prosperous and moral society