>Chinese tell him not to attack 38th parallel or they'll

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>>2775870
Like patton he was great at giving the media nice soundbites, but also played politics and reflected blame, he was a mediocre at best commander however.

>>2775870
>wanted to nuke the yellow menace with thirty-four fucking bombs and put the fear of god into the ant swarm
>hypocrite truman got his panties in a twist and made up some bullshit about a vague coup to recall the crazy asshole and save his chink buddies
do it again mac

>>2775888
This. MacArthur and Patton are cases of commanders who are known more for their public persona than any actual talent.

Neither had a strategic thought in their fucking heads and blamed everybody around them for their failures.

Rommel is potentially the only other commander more talentless relative to his fame.

>>2775897
Rommel had talent but should have stayed at general major or even Oberst which were ranks better suited to his strengths.

>>2775911
Kesselring was absolutely right about him. Rommel is a perfect field leader. He just lacked the general understanding of strategy and logistics needed for a field marshal.

Thinking out it, despite how overrated he is I'd still probably rank him about Patton.

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>>2775897
Have you read the interviews with German officers captured in North Africa? They say American soldiers were basically retards in that campaign.

They'd run along the most obvious routes between foxholes, huddle together in bunches, fire aimlessly with their rifles and then run back as soon as there was return fire. And when the Germans were weak or exposed the Americans would never press their advantage.

American soldiers are always shit, the only good thing about them is their industrial might which lets them spam a ridiculous amount of bombers and artillery and basically keep bombarding the enemy into a battle until they retreat, without any infantry operations.

That's been their war doctrine always and it's why they failed miserably in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Their ground doctrine is shit.

>>2775922
ya thats becase the us fights to win wars not to impress pencilnecks who try to pick things apart afterward

its like youre criticizing cavalry tactics in ww1...

>>2775939
we fight to win wars, Wtf does that even mean.

People from other countries admit their countries military failings but not Americans.

>>2775922
>without any infantry operations.
Ask the Japs what they thought of US Marines.

>>2775870
so why didn't the pussies nuke China?

>>2775944
Wasn't aware they fought in North Africa.

>>2775944
Oh please. Japs in Okinawa and Iwo Jima were outnumbered 10 to 1 not to mention they didn't have anywhere the amount of artillery and bomber support.

>>2775939
>the us fights to win
typical anti-intellectual duhmeriblob, you later lost in Vietnam because you couldn't accept constructive criticism and adjust infantry doctrines a little

>>2775870
there is evidence that china decided to invade before he crossed the 38th parallel

>>2775870
Should have nuked the chinks, we wouldn't be having the problems we're having today if we'd done the right thing and nuked the chinks/

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He hated communists and Chinks. Nothing wrong with that.

>>2775922
>That's been their war doctrine always and it's why they failed miserably in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Their ground doctrine is shit.
But the US trounced the Vietnamese, Afghans, and Iraqis in the vast majority of engagements. Vietnam was lost stateside, and the Iraqis and Taliban were both fucked sideways.

>>2776044
Killing lots of people and then leaving counts as winning.

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>>2776044
W-we don't lose we just gave up

>>2776080
I'm talking about actual battles here. The US completley annihilated the VC and forced the NVA to retreat into Cambodia and Laos without ever invading North Vietnam. The Iraqi military (which was one of the top 10 largest in the world at the time) got totally destroyed within weeks of the invasion. Within the first year the US was fighting insurgents who were incapable of staging any kind of large scale offensive. The situation in Afghanistan was similar, but that took a bit longer.
Both Afghanistan and Iraq currently have governments that were installed by the US.

>>2776094
>I'm talking about actual battles here

TIL Pyrrhus beat the Romans.

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>>2776094
Iraq you had the air support you rely upon so heavily and the army was pretty bad, vietnam and afgani soldiers were tactically terrible and poorly equipped and you still struggled with them

>>2776094
>I'm talking about actual battles here
Turn out the hannibal actually did win in the end then.

>>2776094
And this is why you win battles but lose wars.

War is politics by other means.

Also, well done maintaining a good casualty ration aginst a bunch of untrained rice farmers who only have small arms.

>>2776205
>>2776331

Ah yes, we lost so that's why they're flying their flags over the US and salting the earth whike we touch our head to the floor five times a day, instead of them eating at McDonald's and selling their minimum wage labor. I'm sure Ho Chi Minh and OBL are sitting there stoked in their graves.

>>2776347
The fact that the flag of north vietnam still exists while that of south vietnam does not means that you lost

>>2776347
>losing means occupation and cultural upheaval
You went in with a goal, you failed.

>>2776347
I'm no doctor, but I believe you are suffering from the disease commonly known as mental retardation.

>>2776347
>hurr the chinese didn't actually lose to mongols because later on they got assimilated

This is you.

>>2775897
Patton wasn't a bad commander at all. But you're right about his reputation being mostly due to his PR stunts.
Rommel was an excellent tactician, he excelled at small-unit tactics. He did in lack strategy though.
But you can't say either was a bad commander.

>>2776410

So where does the "Rommel was bad at strategy" thing come from? What was he supposed to do? Sit in Libya and wait for the British to gather overwhelming force?

>>2776414
Maybe he shouldn't have wasted what few supplies he had repeatedly launching failed offensives in Libya.

But it reflects the general strategic situation the Germans were facing: in the end they were fucked.

>>2776414
He wasn't supposed to outrun his supply lines every time, and waste materiel and men who were hardly replacable. He totally misunderstood the strategic importance of his theater and demanded more and more resources.
His tendency to make impossible demands out of his subordinates was also problematic. He used Italians as cannon fodder, focusing all support on German troops and then complained how Italians fight badly.
He wasn't bad at all given the circumstances, but his legend is just a legend, and his reputation inflated by his opponents for obvious reasons.

>>2776371
>literally stop all military participation
>720 days later Saigon falls
>we beat the Americans

>>2776444
We talk about strategy right now in this thread and you fail to notice how dumb your post is?
America was defeated. Vietnam fell to communist rule. Your original goal was to prevent that, not to achieve 1:10 kill ratio. It was a strategic defeat.

>>2776455
This is the equivalent of the Russian Empire claiming credit for the Allied victory in WW1 despite dropping out of it.
North Vietnam defeated South Vietnam two years after America withdrew military support.

>>2775922

Not shit just mediocre compared to their continental Western counterparts. America has never been in a war where the country was seriously threatened, therefore the American infantryman languished in mediocrity.

>>2776473
...and America originally entered war and wasted resources and men to prevent that.
You withdrew and you didn't secure your goals. NV invaded and won. It was a strategic defeat. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
By your logic Soviets won in Afghanistan. They even had better K/D ratio.

>>2776479
When we withdrew South Vietnam existed and a ceasefire that lasted til 1975 was put in place.
You speak of this invasion, against South Vietnam, against south Vietnamese soldiers, as a victory against America?

>>2776473 >>2776479
Sorry, but I gotta back Vietnam on this one. America lost. Our goal was to stop Vietnam from entirely falling to Communism; not only did we fail in that goal, but a good portion of Southeast Asia further fell as well.

When you fight a war and fail to achieve any of your goals and are forced to withdraw, that's a loss, plain and simple.

>>2775870
Worked in WW2

>>2776497
When we withdrew from the war there was a ceasefire similar to the one the Korean government has had in place for well over 4 decades. We went in there with the specific idea of reunifying the Korean Peninsula, did we lose that one? I mean the ceasefire is still up..

>>2776507
What I'm getting at is when we left we had a status quo, which wasn't what we "wanted" but !trigger warning! we're politically fine with. Then we didn't enforce it. It's the equivalent of watching someone's dog get run over, not helping, and later finding out the guy who ran over it said he got you good.

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>>2776336
>only have small arms

If you're gonna educate others on a subject, at least try to inform yourself of the subject beforehand.

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>>2776550
Yeah the Vietnamese armoured divisions were a real problem, surprised America performed as well as it did.

>>2776522
Well if that someone is your friend and tried to run over the dog in the past then yeah he got you good.

>>2776586
A friend of a friend who you hadn't seen in two years, France was the main interest in Vietnam.

>>2776566
NVA had planty of access to armour and aircraft and a absolute shit ton of anti aircraft weapons, including some of the most state of the art SAMs of the time.

>>2776650
I was referring to the VC.

True, the NVA was quite well armed, but had nothing on the US Army in regards to firepower generally.

>>2775993
There is also evidence that they didn't.

The Chinese were, with merit, reasonably afraid of a guy who wanted to nuke all of them controlling territory next to their capitol.

>>2776094
>he thinks the only point of war is to rack up a good K:D ratio
Stop playing CoD you fucking child, the aim of war is to achieve a political goal. The American goal in Vietnam was to prevent the North from conquering South Vietnam, and they failed.

The US didn't lose to a bunch of rice farmers with AKs. It lost to the commiebloc.

t.Rice farmer

The funniest thing is how Vietnam is crying for US help now with Chinese aggression and all

>>2776909
>implying the entire goal of operation Tet wasnt to destroy public opinion on Vietnam war in US

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>>2775870
better question
>truman (the only american president even to drop the bomb on another state) all of a sudden thinks useing bombs is bad
>even worse fired based mac and we are forced to a standstill and korea remains divided
what a fucking fag

>>2777504
T. macarthurboo.

>>2777507
>T. macarthurboo.
there is literally nothing wrong with this

>>2777514

>>2775888

Have met more than one PRC Chinaman (youths, mind) who expressed admiration for MacArthur, as well as regret that he didn't drop the bomb.

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>>2775922
strategy is a spook

>>2777729
Leihaveneverreadstirneroranybookinmylifethatwasn'tschoolworkposter

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>>2775922
>American soldiers are always shit,
> the only good thing about them is their industrial might which lets them spam a ridiculous amount of bombers and artillery and basically keep bombarding the enemy into a battle until they retreat, without any infantry operations.
>That's been their war doctrine always and it's why they failed miserably in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Their ground doctrine is shit.

>>2777804
Nice arguement.

>>2775870
fucking china shits

>>2775979
>Implying Okinawa and Iwo Jima were the only two major battles of the Pacific War
>Ignoring the previous 3 years of island hopping
Sad.

What if they did use nukes?

>>2778071
hopefully the USSR would nuke america

>>2778071
Communist China wouldn't exist and neither would NK. The Soviets would be more aggressive towards the US in Europe now.

>>2778088
would ruin the U.S's reputation worldwide as well, might face sanctions.

>>2778094
The US wouldn't face sanctions as Western Europe and most of Asia was sucking on it, but its reputation world wide would take a blow and some Non-aligned nations might've swung more towards the Soviets because atleast they wouldn't be considered nuke crazy.

It would set an example that the US wouldn't take communist shit and Vietnam wouldn't have happened.

>>2778146
I think people would have freaked the fuck out, people would be very scared of America nuking with little provocation and I think almost every ally would distance themselves from the U.S

>>2778159
>Every ally would distane themselves
Not with the way decolonization was going on and the threat of the Soviets + economic aid the US was providing to the world.

>Little provocation
The Chinese hopped into the Korean War with a fully army after the US was about to create stability and eliminate the communist North Koreans.

They were extending the war and trying to flex their muscle. One reason China didn't get their shit really pushed in was that the US was limiting the scope of the war, and the US stopped fighting after China got done plowing through and their logistics fell apart. (Note: China's logistics have always sucked ass and they aren't ready to field a large scale army. The moment it fell apart, had the US performed multiple assaults they would've fell back hard, but the US took a truce and let them recover.)