/pol/ has been fucking with my head. I come from a Jewish family

>>2750266
I always wondered why /pol/ worships hitler so much when he didn't accomplish shit.
>lost the war
>set back nationalism and the right wing ideology for decades
>led to the deaths of countless Europeans
>didn't even end up killing any Jews(don't believe in the holocaust)
>committed suicide like a bitch
>thought Christianity was the pussy religion

Like, why jerk off to hitler if you don't believe in the holocuast. /pol/ should be happy that the holocaust was real

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>>2750285
I think they like how he stood up against the international banking cartel/jews/illuimnati/insert internation boogyman here

How true is it? Now so sure, I haven't read any books on the topic, if there are any books on it

>>2750289
>How true is it
It's not true. This picture is full of shit. I've found 3 or 4 mistakes in one sentence.

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>>2750266
Gas yourself Schlomo

>>2750266

If you're trying to convince yourself the Holocaust existed, then you're in luck, because it's one of the most thoroughly and painstakingly recorded, photographed, filmed, and catalogued atrocities in human history

A good deal of the evidence comes directly from the Nazis who kept meticulous notes

>>2750314
>it's not true

How so?

>>2750315
Imagine whatever country it is that you're from.
Imagine a group of dindus declaring war on it, occasionally kidnapping your civilians and hurling boulders at your mallcops.

How long would they be tolerated before being utterly annihilated?

>>2750285
>/pol/ worships hitler

We don't. At least a large chunk doesn't. Some don't care, others hate him. Think about how many Poles are on /pol/.

>>2750285
/pol/ isn't one person, and a good chunk of it is libertarians, so not everyone likes Hitler

>>2750266
Hitler's War by David Irving

listen kid
arguing on the internet with polfags is useless
they will never change their opinion
and you dont know enough to change their opinion

try to drift away from the retarded american view of holocaust=gassing jews

that was one part, mass killings, worked to death, starvation and all you can think of basicly happened to them
just take a visit to a local library and ask about it, theyll help you, its dry, its not very interesting for a youngster and certainly takes alot more time than scanning through a retarded pol infograph

>>2750285
>set back nationalism and right wing ideology for decades

This meme is the worst, it isn't the Hollywood machine controlled by Jews or the Jewish owned newspapers that has attacked any right wing attempts as salvation of their nations (of course you forget (or are rather ignorant of) prominent Jewish newspaper owners such as Annenberg who worked hard to undermine McCarthy, but rather the right wing themselves who are to blame. You're like a vicious husband who punches his wife anytime she stands for herself, only to blame her for her bruises.

>>2750321
Most of it is wrong.
>on top of this (the hyperinflation) came a global depression
The Great Depression came in 1939, hyperinflation in Germany ended in 1924.

>Germany had no choice but to succumb to debt slavery under international (mainly Jewish) bankers until 1933
The stopped paying in 1931, not in 1933 (Hoover Moratorium). I recommend to read a bit about Daves and Young Plans. The Western Powers were actually interested in helping German economy.

>at that point the German government thwarted the international banking cartels by issuing its own money
These "money" were promissory notes allowing Germany to rearm and hide their growing inflation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mefo_bills

>>2750324
Refugees welcome stop being intolerant

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>>2750324
>freedom for me but not for thee

>>2750379
Thanks

I'll look into that

What about the rest of the screencap?

>>2750266
>I come from a Jewish family and I sincerely don't want to be a holocaust denier.

this is such a LARP. you're not jewish

>>2750346
>try to drift away from the retarded american view of holocaust=gassing jews

>that was one part, mass killings, worked to death, starvation and all you can think of basicly happened to them
just take a visit to a local library and ask about it, theyll help you, its dry, its not very interesting for a youngster and certainly takes alot more time than scanning through a retarded pol infograph

This eternally. I've seen /pol/acks try to calculate how long it would take to gas 6 million Jews when all it shows you is that they haven't even read a book about it.

>>2750289
>Venezuela does the same thing today when it trades oil for commodities, plus medical help and so on. Hencethe bankers are trying to squeeze Venezuela

Heh, great example.

http://www.businessinsider.com/venezuelas-inflation-rates-highest-in-the-world-food-prices-sky-high-2016-8?IR=T

Also:

>During the economic crisis of 1935–36, Schacht, together with the Price Commissioner Dr. Carl Friedrich Goerdeler, helped lead the "free-market" faction in the German government. They urged Hitler to reduce military spending, turn away from autarkic and protectionist policies, and reduce state control in the economy. Schacht and Goerdeler were opposed by a faction centering on Hermann Göring.[13]

>In November 1937 he resigned as Minister of Economics and General Plenipotentiary at both his and Göring's request. He had grown increasingly dissatisfied with Göring's near-total ignorance of economics, and was also concerned that Germany was coming close to bankruptcy. Hitler, however, knew that Schacht's departure would raise eyebrows outside Germany, and insisted that he remain in the cabinet as minister without portfolio.

Remember, this is the guy responsible for this economic "miracle".

>>2750378
No it isn't. How did he not set Nationalism back? All people do is call others Nazis. It's the best way to have your whole lifes work discredited.

>inb4 BUT MUHH KIKE MEDIA IS WHY PEOPLE HATE HITLER

No it's not. Hitler ruined any hope of some European ethno-state because all they will do is call you Hitler. Just like how most Communist movements ruined the prospect of Socialism.

To argue otherwise shows how retarded you are.

>>2750402
So was it possible at all for Hitler to keep this kind of economy going without starting a war?

Is there any validity for him wanting to break away these shady international bankers/jews/illuminati/generic shady group?

>>2750315
THIS.

>>2750410
Because Nationalism and National Socialism are not exactly the same, now tell me, did the USSR set socialism back, or rather is it the enemies of socialism who misuse it as an example to blame?
>Hitler ruined any hope of a European ethnostate
No, Europeans ruined it. Had Hitler won none of this would have happened.

>>2750429
>Because Nationalism and National Socialism

Neither is communism and socialism.

But they still made it so most of these movements are immediately discredited.

>>2750429
>Had Hitler won none of this would have happened.

>implying it's not Hitler's fault he lost

>>2750436
No, I'd sooner blame the Japanese for lacking the foresight to renege on their treaty with the Russians instead of the KMT, had they spent half of the forces they wasted on th Chinese on the Soviets it would have diverted enough forces to salvage the Eastern Front, Stalin himself was willing to let Hitler have Eastern Europe but the Soviets began to be increaingly successful post-Kursk. And German chauvinism didn't help either, nor did the fairweather allies Germany had.

>>2750415
It wasn't. That's why they changed the policy in 1936. They were preparing for the upcoming war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Year_Plan

>Is there any validity for him wanting to break away these shady international bankers/jews/illuminati/generic shady group?
It was mostly propaganda. But many Nazis actually believed it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Feder

>Feder briefly dominated the NSDAP's official views on financial politics, but after he became chairman of the party's economic council in 1931, his anti-capitalist views led to a great decline in financial support from Germany's major industrialists. Following pressure from Walther Funk, Albert Voegler, Gustav Krupp, Friedrich Flick, Fritz Thyssen, Hjalmar Schacht and Emil Kirdorf, Hitler decided to move the party away from Feder's economic views; when Hitler became Reichskanzler in 1933, he appointed Feder as under-secretary at the ministry of economics in July.

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>>2750324
Imagine whatever country it is that you're from.
Imagine a group of dindus declaring war on it, before you and your parents were born, and yet somehow everyone's still butthurt about its very existence and whenever you agree to something mutually beneficial people who are even more butthurt than you ruin it for everyone.
How long before people stop giving a toss?

>>2750436
Hitler specifically said if he lost the war the fault was entirely to blame on the German people for not fighting hard enough.

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>>2750446
So what ever truth there was to the conspiracy was milked to break away from what exactly?

This is where the confusion stems for me, people who support NatSoc and what Hitler did say that it was to free Germany from the penalties imposed on it from the Treaty of Versailles while other people say that it was just a power play to have Germany completely under his thumb

I just feel like there's a factor missing here

>>2750463
The only real conspiracy was the Nazi one.

>Hitler did say that it was to free Germany from the penalties imposed on it from the Treaty of Versailles
Hitler had few goals: to destroy Marxism, get rid off Jews from Europe and create Lebensraum for German people.
War was simply necessary, even if he lied that he is a man of peace.

>>2750489
Thanks for clearing that up

His methods were questionable but I have to say, his and Germany's vilification has gotten a bit too far nowadays

At least thats what I think, I try to put myself in the shoes of the average German during those days

>>2750501
I disagree. Nowadays Hitler is a product of pop-culture. All this Nazi demonization made them "cooler" than they really were.

>>2750501
>At least thats what I think, I try to put myself in the shoes of the average German during those days
Have any dissent opinion and you will be killed or sent to prison

>>2750266
Just don't go on /pol/, dude, Jesus. Nothing intelligent happens over there anyway. It's just the local zoo.

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>>2750513
He's the answer to what's mainstream nowadays

When everyone is going hard left, if you want to be punk you gotta go hard right and not the centrist-neocon "right"

It's just history repeating itself again except I've got no idea how the world is going to look after all this shit blows over

>>2750514
I imagine that this would be the case, especially as the war dragged on and that it became more and more evident that Germany was going to lose

If the shit you see on /pol/ doesn't cite any sources, ignore it. If it does cite a source, Google it and you will see loads of counter arguments.

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>>2750266
The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering is a 2000 book by Norman G. Finkelstein, in which Finkelstein argues that the American Jewish establishment exploits the memory of the Nazi Holocaust for political and financial gain, as well as to further the interests of Israel.[1] According to Finkelstein, this "Holocaust industry" has corrupted Jewish culture and the authentic memory of the Holocaust.

Im ready to be convonced either way.
So to burn a body to ash takes hours in a high grade modern industrial cremator. Doing some loose calc: 600000/2000days = 300 persons burned to ash per day. 5 persons per day per oven means 60 high grade industrial ovens working 24h/day. Either that or there should be 100s of 1000s of skellingtons burried somewhere.
Where is the flaw in my logic?

>>2750315
>levelling a village with hellfire missiles.

>>2750568
>100s of 1000s

start digging in ukraine

>>2750568
they shot them or bashed in their heads as well and buried them in mass graves, you'd be suprised how many people can be buried in a relatively small hole.

>>2750568
Modern crematoria works differently. They usually burn the body with a coffin and clean everything afterwards. According to the constructors of Nazi ovens 20-30 minutes were enough for one body (but because most victims were people dying from starvation, women or children usually more bodies were burned at once (2-4).
Afterwards the remnants (such as bones) were manually crushed by members of Sonderkommando.

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>>2750318
>believing nazis instead of eyewitness jewish accounts

Thats not how history works

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>>2750266
>when the jew needs the goyim to remind him of the 6 gorillions
lyl

>>2750266
How about Hitlers mom being a maid for the home of the Zionistic Rotschilds? This just asks for a conspiracy.

From the writtings of Hobsbawm I'd say that the holohoax DEFINITELLY happened, but the 6 gigabillion chosen ones number was absurdly inflated by zionists. At most a third of this number actually were killed by the nazis.

I hate Jews anyway; a shame the nazis didn't kill them all.

>>2750755
>I hate Jews anyway; a shame the nazis didn't kill them all.
Who would we have to blame everything on, then?

>>2750402
>Venesuela

Wrong it's because the OAPEC keeps selling under value forcing the othet members to do the same.

>>2750501
He had millions murdered and he planned on murdering, enslaving or deporting even more. Too far, my ass.

>>2750553
Literally a meme book

>>2750754
Or when the US government then asked for help from the American Zionist party and they only agreed on the condition that they'd get Israel. And now you know why the Zionist Hitler Rotschild started WWII, unless you believe the golden warrior propaganda, but i just follow the money.

>>2750758
>who then?
The Eternal Hibernian

>>2750568

It was not close to 6 million that were gassed.

A lot of Jews and political opponents died on the streets when the NSdAP took over.

At first, they tried killing the jews by putting them in a closed truck and relocating the co2 back inside. It took hoirs for them to die and they screamed, too traumatizing for the driver. This method was commonplace for a year and then abandoned.

Only later came the logistics of work camps, even later death camps.

Even then keep in mind that more than a million jews died in polish and french ghettoes, russian villages, almost none of these were burnt, just buried.

In the KZs or Vernichtungslager only the ones that were gassed were actually cremated. Don't forget that a lot of people were lined up and shot, tortured to death for disobedience, died of starvation and so forth. I bet the total number of people cremated is closer to 3.5 mil if at all that high. That is very feasible to accomplish.

>>2750772
Can someone check if there were more Poles rhan Jews in the laborcamps? Or if they were kept seperated from the Jews? #rememberthepoles

>>2750266
It happened. 5-6 million Jews were exterminated by the Nazis and their collaborators. Holocaust denialism is not history, it's pure propaganda. They constantly lie, manipulate and omit vital information.

>>2750782
These Jews were mostly Polish citizens.

>>2750758
Black people, of course. At least in America.

>>2750781
This, probably half was not cremated in camps. The einsatzgruppen and sonderkommando1005 .

>Blobel began his work experimenting at Chełmno (Kulmhof). Attempts to use incendiary bombs to destroy exhumed bodies were unsuccessful as the weapons set fire to nearby forests. The most effective way was eventually found to be giant pyres on iron grills. The method involved building alternating layers of corpses and firewood on railway tracks. Afterwards remaining bone fragments could be crushed by pounding with heavy dowels or in a grinding machine and then re-buried in pits

>>2750791
The einsatzgruppen & sonder commando did the rest in the field*

>>2750266
start with this.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html

And this

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/12/belzec-sobibor-treblinka-holocaust.html

>>2750429
Yeah how dared we not kiss German boot.
What a fucking idiot, oh my God, people like this should be strangled, go fuck yourself you retarded fuck, you're probably American on top of that.

>>2750568
in modern cremators you dont put many Untermensch together to burn at the same time

>>2750429
Had he won Germany would be ruled by Catholics and had embraced other esoteric nonsense making it more retarded antiscience than the USA with its amount of Christians. Ofcourse nobody would notice it as Christianity was already the nirm in Germany.

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>>2750568
Considering that they had 52 muffles in Auscwhitz alone, what about this strikes you as difficult?

>>2750786
I knew it. Thats how they got to 1.6 million

>>2750842
So hitler only targeted slav poles and not jewish poles?

>>2750633
Sources?

>>2750285
Hitler worship is mostly ironic

>>2750285
>don't believe in the holocaust

you are a flat earther tier retard anon.

>>2751130
https://archive.org/stream/BodyDisposalAtAuschwitzTheEndOfHolocaustDenial/BDA_djvu.txt

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>>2750266

>>2750854
There is no such thing as slavic pole, they're all kikes.

>>2751247
What does this image convey?

>>2751247

explain to me how that shirt disrespects women.

>>2751281
Liberal smugness while ignoring the fact that they rally behind the very face of institutional corruption.

>>2750755
>, but the 6 gigabillion chosen ones number was absurdly inflated by zionists

No it isnt. Youre just a very low IQ person who wants reality to fit into your dumbass internet conspiracy theories.

>>2751300
That image is quite stupid. To make a pun referencing a woman having practiced oral sex is not an insult to women.

>>2751317

part of the "narrative" is that any personal insult to a specific woman is in fact an attack on women as a whole, so they you are sexist for attacking any one woman for anything.

Hillary Clinton said Trump supporters were deplorable, so his supporters started ironically calling themselves that as a badge of honor as a "fuck you" to her

Trump called Hillary (just her, not her supporters) a nasty woman, so her supporters tried to force that into being their ironic "fuck you" badge of honor, even though it made no sense and just came across as women calling themselves nasty when no one even asked them.

>>2750854
Perhaps he targete Poles in general, then seperated the Jews and non Jews and not releasing the non Jews

Okay, I'm back.

>>2750318
Yeah, that's what people like you say, but then you don't tell me what book I can find these records printed in. The only holocaust-related book I can even name is The Diary of Anne Frank, and that's because of how well-known it is.

>>2752571
Try Destruction of European Jewry by Hillberg.

>>2752571
see >>2750801

>>2750343
Wikipedia says its reliability is disputed and that a passage that questioned whether Hitler even knew about the holocaust was removed from the publisher. I guess I'll consider it, but it doesn't sound too promising.

>>2750346
>its not very interesting for a youngster
I'm in my early 20's.

>and certainly takes alot more time than scanning through a retarded pol infograph
Of course, but it's worth it to not be a holocaust denier.

>>2750397
What, should I timestamp some kippot?

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>All Jews made it to the camps
>All people at the camp were burned

Yeah, in this hypothetical world it would be impossible. But especially in the Soviet Union most Jews were just killed on site. Also a lot of people didn't get burned. Germans were forced by allied troops to march past the dead bodies as part of denazification.

>>2750735
I've seen this image before. It's funny, but it also proves my point. I can't use Jewish accounts because whatever trauma they've experienced has fucked with their memory.

>>2750784
Then name a book, please.

>>2750801
Oh shit, YES! This is what I wanted! Thank you!

>>2750735

>babbys first encounter with primary sources

>>2750324
Well, America was like that with native americans.
Look how long they lasted.

>>2752583
Well, it's on the long side, but it looks pretty legit. I'm gonna see if I can get a copy from a library. Thanks!

>>2751247
>Believing this

>>2750266
Oyyy

Your cabal will end very soon

>>2750415
Hitler got the support of oligarchs.

>>2750410
>All people do is call others Nazis.
Yeah, but they call people Nazi for shit not even representative of National Socialism.
Notice I did not say Nazism, because Hitler and friends never called themselves Nazis; it was instead a insult made by the Jews and Allies. Also, Hitler was a GERMAN nationalist, so your argument about nationalist movements would only work in Germany, but hey, /his/ hates Germany anyway so no loss there.

>>2752677
The pic means that it is irrelevant, meaning it does not invalidate nationalistic, anti-semitic, or generally racist ideas

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>PLEASE FEED MY BRAIN WITH JEW/SOVIET PROPAGANDA SO I KNOW IT WAS REAL IN MY HEAD

>>2752611
>Germans were forced by allied troops to march past the dead bodies as part of denazification.
I don't get this, especially if they were already antisemitic. You go on forever about how the Jews need to die, and then they do get killed and suddenly you're like "Oh noooo, so horrible wtf I like Jews now!" If you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk

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>>2753744
maybe they never wanted the jews to die?

>>2753732
I'll rephrase this. The pic means that, assuming the Holocaust is true, it should only be seen as "The Nazis killed a lot of Jews" and have it's relevance stop there. Not be seen as "The Nazis killed a lot of Jews, therefore any ideas that slightly correlate with the Nazis' ideas are bad"

>>2753753
If you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk

who needs any of that when you have so many (((movies))) about the Shoah? Those are like infographics of the legacy media.

Daily reminder:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
http://4archive.org/board/his/thread/509405
http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

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>>2753766
if u blart the flart dont flirk ze birk

>>2750501
>Hitlers vilification has gone too far
Hitler for his image and dream of a 'greater good' was willing to lie, brainwash, and basically rule his people with an iron fist where dissent or even basic (and productive) questioning of the status quo would get you killed or thrown into a political prison.

To top this all off, his dream involved the extermination of not just the jews, but also all non-germanic/latin europeans through slave labor. In order to fulfill these dreams and ideas, he instigated the bloodiest war in human history and created the largest and most industrialized genocide in history responsible for the deaths of at least 10 to 12 million people, half of whom were jews, on top of the already vast amounts of political murders and warcrimes visited on civilian populations in Eastern Europe.

So, no, his vilification hasn't gone 'too far'. If anything, people have been searching too much for humanizing factors for the man. Hitler was one of the worst people in history, and no amounts of complaints like 'Stalin was worse' or 'commies were worse' will change that. The only human being who I can comparatively say caused more overall suffering in the modern era is Mao, and that's because Mao was a fucking retard who unintentionally caused mass starvation that killed roughly 30 million people. Mao also never started a massive globe spanning war.

>>2754669
>To top this all off, his dream involved the extermination of not just the jews, but also all non-germanic/latin europeans through slave labor.

>no amounts of complaints like 'Stalin was worse' or 'commies were worse' will change that.

So he was a bad guy. From your blog, I still don't see how the commies weren't worse. As far as I know, the bodycount from the commies was a lot higher than hitler's. Just because the fact that he didn't like jews is scary to you, doesn't' mean that he's any worse than these other murderers. It's like comparing torture and murder. Both are heinous crimes and the ideology that motivated you to commit the crime doesn't much matter because you'll still pay for the crime with death.

>>2752677
>but acknowledging that the holocaust was an atrocity does not imply relevance

Not in a vacuum, but the reality is that whether the Holocaust happened or not, public perception is that it did and that perception has permitted the Jewish lobby maintain permanent victim status and leverage that status to advance its interests consistently for the last 70 years. Someone points out that Israel has an undeclared nuclear arsenal? Holocaust. Someone points out that Jewish people in the US wield an astronomically disproportionate amount of wealth and power in proportion to their population? Holocaust. Someone points out that the Israelis are in the active process of an old-school imperialistic land grab in the West Bank? Holocaust. Someone suggests that maybe European countries should be for Europeans and not the entire world? Holocaust.

Decoupling the historicity of the Holocaust from its importance when considering the Jewish question in modern times is essential, but it is also something that hasn't yet been done for the vast majority of people.

>>2755445
The Commies were terrible, but not worse than Hitler. Hitler deliberately murdered millions of people and started the biggest war in human history. Commies killed millions of people mostly because of their incompetence and stupidity. That doesn't mean they were the good guys or that they never deliberately killed their enemies. And let's not forget that China and Russia had much more people than Poland, Ukraine and Belarus. The Nazis exterminated almost 100% of Jews living in these countries.

>>2755445
Killing someone solely because of their race is worse every time.

>>2753698
You mean AshkeNAZI? Just ask a Nazi, badum-ptss

>>2755527
>when you kill more people than hitler but it wasn't on racial grounds so it's okay

That's bullshit and you know it and it only perpetuates because they won WW2. You don't "accidentally" starve 12 million Ukrainians to death. You don't accidentally kill another 40 million in Gulags.

I understand that you're brainwashed because of our bad public schooling. But what you are saying is stupid, it would be like if I said that Hitler accidentally tripped over a butterfly and oopsies 12 million jews and gypsies died.

Please just get fucking educated and read the gulag archipelago and educate yourself on the holodomor

>>2755527
>>2755682

Wouldn't it be better to remobe both Nazis and Commies before they have an opportunity to cause some mass death and starvation?

>>2750266

>holocaust denial

I have always wondered how the edgelords on /pol/ can deny the holocaust while at the same time praise nazis.

If you say the holocaust did happen as accepted, then you could argue the nazis at least tried.

However, denying the holocaust undermines everything found in adolf's best selling book and goebbels speeches about jews.

How serious could they have been if they made no effort to exterminate the jews that do xyz bad things?

But if you say the holocaust happened but you deny how many died, then that's how many evil jews adolf allowed to live. And whose offspring now cause problems affecting you and the world today with their jewish tricks.

>>2750266
You're an ashkeNAZI it's in your blood

Embrace it

>>2750266
you could've gotten help but you had to add a bunch of meme drama to your OP and only attracted shitposters

>>2751247
>lol look at this conservative with a distateful shirt it's just as bad as Sharia Law and stoning women for premarital sex!

they're doing a troll

>>2755495

>but the reality is that whether the Holocaust happened or not, public perception is that it did

You wanna know what else is a public perception? Krauts got BTFO in WWI and WWII.

>that perception has permitted the Jewish lobby maintain permanent victim status and leverage that status to advance its interests consistently for the last 70 years

You're thinking of the Palestinian lobby.

>Someone points out that Israel has an undeclared nuclear arsenal?

Their sand nigger neighbors stop invading them after they got nukes.

>Someone points out that Jewish people in the US wield an astronomically disproportionate amount of wealth and power in proportion to their population?

So why haven't we ever had a jewish president?

>Someone points out that the Israelis are in the active process of an old-school imperialistic land grab in the West Bank?

If the kikes were actually attempting a land grab, the Palestine wouldn't exist right now.

>Someone suggests that maybe European countries should be for Europeans and not the entire world?

I suggest european countries are actually full of backwards and primitive people. Which is why muslims seem to enjoy moving there and civilized people move to America.

>Decoupling the historicity of the Holocaust from its importance when considering the Jewish question in modern times is essential

Essential to whom? Why?

>but it is also something that hasn't yet been done for the vast majority of people

Because the vast majority of people are infact, a lot smarter than you.

>>2750285
People like him for what he stood for, the idea

>>2750331
/pol/ hasn't been mostly libertarian in years.

>>2755842
Just because you want something to happen and people claim it happened doesn't mean it happened

It's especially bad when the people claiming it happened use it level countries and now continents

>>2755930

>Just because you want something to happen and people claim it happened doesn't mean it happened

This is what your logic sounds like to non-edgelords.

>Hey, I hope your sister gets raped.
>dude wtf would you say that? my sister did get raped.
>No she didn't, but if you hold her down for me I can change that.

>>2755958
No what i said would translate to this
>dude I hope your sister gets raped
>why would you say that, she said she was raped
You automatically assumed that she in fact did get raped

>>2755682
>12 million Ukrainians
That's a made up number. 6-7 million people starved in 1932-1933. Most of them Ukrainians, but also many Kazakhs, Volga Germans and Russians. It's likely that holodomor (Ukrainian famine) killed 3.5-5 million people at most.
>40 million in Gulags
Again, a completely made up number.

>and read the gulag archipelago and educate yourself on the holodomor
You should read modern history books about this topic. Especially books and articles focusing on Soviet labor camps and Soviet famine.
Even if Soviet documents aren't fully reliable (they show that slightly more than 1 million prisoners died in labor camps), 40 million is a completely made up number, based on nothing.

What a shitposting thread, but as expected. On a serious note, there is no hard material evidence for the holocaust. Nothing. It's all testimonies. Check out this page (it's a long read):

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndvalue.html#

Again, a quick rundown: There's no evidence for systematic killing of jews. Most "confessions" were forced under torture during the Nuremberg trials, which were horribly unfair to the defendants.

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>>2750324
Stop defending ethnic cleansing.

>>2753777
>http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html

This link is a great example. Look at all this "evidence". 80% of it is testimonials (eye witness reports). The least reliable form of evidence. The rest is polish newspapers, and german documents, which while interesting, do not make hard evidence. That would be bones, ashes, gas chambers, spent gas canisters, the physical infrastructure and the physical remnants of a genocide, none of which has ever been presented.

>Just asking questions
Holy shit, how did people fall for this? Even if you didn't catch on at first it should have been obvious by mid-thread that OP wasn't sincere.

>>2756037
>>2756065
Man, you're a walking stereotype.

The WHO is a revisionist organization that was lead by Holocaust denier Germar Rudolf for most of its existence and is now owned by Castle Hill Publishing, which is owned by Germar Rudolf, by the way.

>>2756097
That's fine and all, but there's still no evidence for the "Holocaust". I've looked and looked and found nothing but testimonials, letters and grainy photos, would not hold up in court today.

>>2756107
for you hard evidence would be to open a mass grave, a memorial graveyard
test the bones for age, if it indeed is the same person as documents suggest (XY, died and identified here and here, according to this and this state census of year Z by the G government)

you can do that ofcourse but its very tiresome and ppl did that already in most cases
scepticism is good, edgy retardation because muh holohoax is not

do you also conduct the test for gravity at each step, so its proven the earth is not flat?

>>2756147
Yes that would be good evidence, but no, no one has ever done it, that is the problem. They found no bones. They say the bones were burned, but they found no ashes either, so what really happened? Maybe the truth is people were imprisoned and had a really tough time, some probably died from disease and starvation, but there were no intentional mass killings at these camps.

>>2750379

>The Great Depression came in 1939

You mean 1929

>>2750839
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany

>>2750568
The fact that you think all 6 million were gassed demonstrates that you got the majority of your information on the Holocaust from your lazy high school teacher and some shitty infographics on /pol/
>>2756155
Ash is non-toxic and there were plenty of rivers, crops, marshes nearby to dump the waste

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>>2750429
>Had Hitler won none of this would have happened.
Had Hitler not sperged out none of this would've happened*

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>>2750568
>Stormfags think all 6 million Jews were killed in gas chambers
Are you just shitposting or legitimately retarded? Look up the Holocaust by bullet

>>2750782
2 million non-Jewish poles were killed by the Nazi regime by the end of WW2

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>>2755445
>deflect all criticism of Nazis onto Commies lol

>>2756155
Actually they found all of this. We even have photos.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/10/mass-graves-and-dead-bodies.html

>>2750266
You should just go to /pol/ for /lrg/ or the Catholic/Orthodox threads tbqh. More sane than the rest of /pol/ by a wide margin.

>>2750285
It was the last chance to get control of the world from the Jews and undo the banking system. Hitler brought us closer than anyone else to ensuring survival.

Now Europeans will die out and celebrate it because of Jew media. More history will be We wuz'd and intelligence will drop. The world's hope peaked with Hitler, and we're riding downward into the abyss.

>>2750839
>Nazi Germany
>antiscience

>>2750568
There's a documentary called auchwitz on netflix, it's got some disproven stuff on there like the lampshade made of jewish skin but they do show pits of bodies, implying that the nazis didn't burn every single person killed in the camps.

>>2751298
Insulting individual women is the same as insulting all women. Females are a monolith and don't have the agency to be individual people.

>>2757497
>implying the Nazis weren't enormous We Wuzzers.
>Implying they didn't have their own banking bullshit
>Implying they didn't hesitate to eliminate lots of Europeans and had far fewer problems with "shitskins".
The delusion is real.


>>2757477
>Nuclear physics and quantum mechanics aren't real because most of the leading figures in those fields are Jews
>Not anti-science.

>>2755540
Why? Race is a social construct and all ethnicities are equal, so why does a genocide of 6 million people of one group matter more than a mass killing of more?

>>2756097
You do see the circle in logic of saying that a holocaust denier automatically means you're discredited for denying the holocaust, right?

>>2757525
The person doing the killing doesn't believe in that theory. You'll kill me for something that's out of my control and you'll target others for the same reason.

>>2757537
So?

>>2757546
I find it hard to believe you don't see the difference someone coming to kill you because you believe ideology X or because you are criticizing some authority versus killing you because of what you are.
Which place would you prefer to live: Authoritarian state that kills millions of people of ideology x
or
Authoritarian state that kills people of your race no matter what

>>2757506
Germany had a nuclear program.

>>2757550
Dead is dead. I'd be killed either way. I honestly don't see the difference other than that it would probably be easier to hide.

>>2757551
Where they had to steal a cyclotron from fucking Denmark because they had literally 0 in Germany itself and didn't know how to build them; where they had to have it headed by a guy who was a pariah in the German establishment who was literally interrogated by the SS over his tied to Jewish physicists, and operated on such a shoe-string budget that they never had any chance of getting anything done, and hadn't even gotten to a self-sustaining reaction by war's end.

You may as well call rubbing coal dust on plane engines a stealth program.

>>2757560
Motivation is also important

>>2757560
So following your logic to the limit: killing 1 million criminals is no different than killing 1 million innocents?

>>2757532
I'm not saying that he's wrong because he's a denier. I'm just saying that he's a famous denier, something that isn't apparent from his proxy organization acting.

>>2757580
Thoughtcrimes are legitimate now?

>>2757631
Not him, but EVERY crime (at least in American jurisprudence, and I believe in most Western nations), has a mental component. Even something as simple as larceny (MPC) has the component of "with an intent to deprive the possessor", without which you have a civil conversion or whatever you want to call it, but not a criminal act.

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>>2750266
The easiest answer is to say nobody knows how many people died in the camps

Most of the victims died of disease

The furnaces are a hoax

People killed were not just jews, they were gypsies, handicapped, mentally ill fags, etc.

basically everyone the Nazi's deemed inferior espacially people from eastern europe.

So the death camps were just a really bad thing, a terrible event but it wasn't called the holocaust or espacially solely associated with jews until 1972 when jewish people started marketing en mass the holocaust, before then nobody had heard of it.

That is when they started shooting footage of camps now used as evidence of the holocaust and build some of the theme parks in Europe.

Since we remember our dead this time of year jews are being spun 24/7 on a lot of channels.
i think a dozen new books have been released the last few days of jews telling their story
All the programs about WW2 are mostly about jews and the holocaust yet they all supply no evidence, it's only jewish people talking about vague flashes they experienced, no evidence, no numbers, nothing to back anything up.

>>2757650
One thing that fuels holocaust denial is that literally millions of people made up survival stories in order to get compensation from the German government. It was a huge scam and required very little evidence.

>>2757645
Thank you. This is a real answer.

>>2757650
You know nothing.

>but it wasn't called the holocaust or espacially solely associated with jews until 1972
Guess why. There was a little thing called Cold War and pro-American West Germany (with many ex-Nazis in the government or in Bundeswehr).
>before then nobody had heard of it
It's more like nobody wanted to hear about it, because there were books released by historians.

>That is when they started shooting footage of camps
They did this in 1945. They also showed this film to German civilians as part of their denazification policy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Mills

>>2757650
>the furnaces are a hoax
Oh, come on. First you say the Gas Chambers aren't real, now it's the crematoriums? Well I'm sorry, but the Allies took aerials shots of Auschwitz during the war, they're on public record. There were four crematoriums that are very easy to see - the chimneys kinda help with that.
This begs another question - why the fuck are FOUR crematoriums needed if they're only burning people who just drop dead from disease? 4 seems a bit excessive.
And another thing: why were the barracks and most other buildings left untouched when the SS retreated? The few buildings blown up included those 4 crematoriums among others. Seems very odd that those innocent buildings deserve special treatment.

Do you have any testimonies from people that were there that claim the Holocaust was fake? Every single Nazi associated with the camps has gone to their grave saying the Holocaust happened. Not one has come forward and said otherwise. Even decades after Nuremberg, no National Socialist who was there has denied the Holocaust.

There is many other pieces of evidence I could bring up but your ideology has blinded you to evidence. Most testimonies or other pieces you could easily dismiss as some Jewish trick.

>>2755682
thanks. I was going to say the same thing.

>>2755540
no it's not you fucking retard. murder is murder.

>>2756003

>No What I said would translate to this

No it doesn't. My example has shown you how fucked in the head you are.

>dude I hope your children get cancer
>why would you say that the doctor said they have cancer

I know you have enough self awareness to abstract the previous example with the current, I hope.

>>2756107

HIfitler was a jew fyi.

Proof? The holocaust was rewritten by jews, prove that (((they))) didn't rewrite his grandmother's religious preference.

>>2759251
Sane people agree with me.

>>2758841
Post pics.

>>2758841
Show me. I know its late but show me.

Genocides are a meme
Serbian here
Srebrenica was brutal but nowhere near 10k people were killed as reported, no infants no pregnant women etc
Its just that people like dem gibs and pity from perpetuating the genocide rhetoric
Even most muslims will agree what it was overblown when you get them drunk and initiate the topic.

Jewish genocide was the same thing, some died, most ran for the hills and they had it coming to them

More people died in the battlefields througout history than in these ((ethnic cleansings))

>>2758841

You realize how many BTUs it takes to cremate a body, right?

In the middle of a war. With serious fuel rations. With tanks being started with firewood. Riiiight.

>>2750324
You talking about the jews or the muslims?

>>2750266
Theres nothing wrong with being Jewish. Judaism has its history: I call them the protestant protestants. The only problem with it is that it did not exist during Jesus time nor before. A lot of the symbols are phoenician paganism. Stuff the spanish people via tradition liked to adorn their houses and jewlery with. Its called the phoenician mystery school. The history is that the bible we know about is technically a treaty liber. A treaty between the western punics and romans for canaan. Historically Jews were not seen as a religion. And for the most part. In Northern European countries the wordJew was a slander towards mixed race people.

>>2751223
He's referring to /pol/.
What he means is that it's ironic for /pol/ to hate Jews and also deny the Holocaust.

>>2763122
What happened during the wars was the fall of the catholic church and islam as well. Meaning if you werent a religiotard society would turn against you. Hitler used religion as a way to cope with his debt issue and sort of used it as a solution. The russians did the opposite extreme. Many were killed during the war for an ideal, a creed. People were left in the streets.

>>2763145
Genocide is the easy way out. A lot of people in the know feel bad for the Jews or some Jews because of the montauk project. They basically mind washed an entire generation in an experiment. Celts vs Jews.

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>>2761458
>>2761458
Stop being obstinate, retard.

>>2763145
Why is it ironic? Not believing the Holocaust and hating the Jews are two entirely different things.

>>2750325
That's reddit TheDonald /pol/. Old /pol/ worshiped Hitler like a saint.

>>2763577
>worshiping a loser

>>2763599
>worshipping

>>2763599
Hello Plebbit!

Let's say that the Holocaust was real
Does that mean that some stuff was overblown? Such as the soap made from Jews thing?

>>2750553
>by Norman G. Finkelstein
Stopped reading right there.

>>2752611
Didn't Americans and Brits bomb the shit out of literally all the concentration camps?

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>>2763608

>>2763608
You live inside a bubble. Jesus Christ, how can someone be this out of touch with reality?

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>>2757525
> Race is a social construct and all ethnicities are equal
Actually believing this

>>2763641
Do you have that one with the "Old Polfag" claiming that he has browsed /pol/ for years and /pol/ has never liked that dirty muslim dictator and CTR shills etc. or something along those lines?

>>2763643
I'm sorry Redditor, did I trigger your feelings?

>>2763657
Do you really think that only Reddit thinks that hitler was a piece of shit? You can't be this retarded.

>>2757650
this. only a portion of people died in the concentration camp. A bigger chunk died of starvation in ghettos and mob ethnic cleansing.

>>2750324
which one is Israelis again?

>>2757650
Concentration camps weren't primarily extermination camps, they were forced labor camps who killed off excess workforce.

>>2750266
Let me let you in on a little big secret. A mosque in spanish is mesquita. Like mestizo. Mes meaning middle/mixed. Quita to take away. Basically they get the entire pagan rite. Break it down to logics. Give people the logic or leave it there and take away the pagan. You get the samething back with a legal culture. Its synchronize as within so without. Today its called syn-agogue.

>>2753800
kek i dont know why i laughed at this

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>>2759259
>>2760272
There's such a thing as google. Do you people always expect to be spoon-fed? You certainly do have a knack for taking all this revisionist bullshit as face-value instead. Here are 2 of the main ones. You can find the rest for yourself.
Also, no denier has ever said there weren't crematoriums. They always just say they were burning the bodies of the sick since they can't wish away those buildings.
>>2761458
These were industrial incinerators, not a funeral home crematory oven. There's actually a patent out there for the design of them that you can see for youself. Check out Topf and Sons. It was a coke-fired model that was powered by heat already inside the incinerator (i.e. the burning bodies themselves kept the fire going).
It can take as little as 15 minutes to turn a body to ashes, rather then the 45 minutes - 2 hours at your local crematory.
Ashes are non-toxic and Auschwitz was surrounded by marshes and rivers where the waste could easily be dumped.

I'd advise everyone to re-examine the evidence put forward by revisionists. I was a denier myself until I realised how half-baked the stuff they put forward was. Again, no Nazi who was there has ever denied what happened

>>2764082

If you're a revisionist, have you ever wondered how Hitler's body was turned to ashes? Was there an incinerator his bunker that could turn him to ashes?

how did the Soviets burn all the German bodies in Stalingrad after the war?

Hint: they didn't use incinerators

>>2764462
I'm not a revisionist.
I'm arguing that the incinerators used in Auschwitz were capable of disposing of remains on an industrial scale.
Of course, bodies can be burned without incinerators. I'm not disputing that

>>2764082
That photo doesn't prove anything, it seems rather strange that they know this group of prisoners is going off to be killed doesn't it?

Having a way for smoke to escape doesn't means you were burning people in them. That picture seems to label a wall as "gas chamber 3". That makes absolutely no sense when you look at the other supposed gas chambers. I mean just consider that there is a "vent" shown on 1 place and yet the others don't show any such vents.

Denier or not, you can't honestly believe that photo proves shit except there was some kind of camp there.

>>2764712
I guess they were off to take a tour of the morgue and cremation room, right? That's what deniers claim that place was. I admit that the annotation is very presumptuous but that doesn't dispell the fact that those buildings were there.
Discussing the gas chambers is an entirely different animal in itself. They can be proven but it's much easier to show that multiple crematories existed at Auschwitz Birkenau

Again, there are no first-hand accounts denying the Holocaust. Revisionists only try to delegitimise/ignore the mountain of primary sources that we do have. Anybody with a quote from someone who was there saying there was no genocide, please step forward

>>2764752
Having a chimney does not make it a crematorium. If it did most the houses in my town would be them.

Lets say those buildings aren't gas chambers but instead have a chimney for burning wood to keep warm then what? Does your entire story of "they're off to be killed" not suddenly fall apart? For all the evidence that photo presents those people could have been a band of soldiers coming back from patrol and heating for the food building to get some soup to warm up with in front of the fire.

This is the problem with any claim either way. It's a time of insane amounts of propaganda that continues to this day. There is no objective way to get information on any of this, camps were knocked down and rebuilt as tourist attractions even. It's such a cluster fuck I can claim that was a summer camp for Soccer players and those photos support my story as much as yours. I could easily take that photo, change the text on it and it presents so little information from an outside perspective both images would be equally valid.

>>2764776
You do understand you're asking for a false negative here correct?

>The holocaust must have happened because no one stood up to deny it
>A group of people who were hunted post war and were told to confess or be tortured didn't deny their torturer's demands
>Since no one denied it or wanted to be put in prison for denying it it must be true.

A primary source also doesn't mean it's true. I can present to you countless primary sources for 2015-2017 about the wage gap. Doesn't mean it's true. OP was asking for some sources that could be verified and not just a hand written account which could be fictional.

>>2764780
That's why we have the written and verbal of accounts of both guards and prisoners.
Even in 2017, there are guards who were at Auschwitz who admit there were crematoriums. But of course if you ignore all of this, you can say it's a dance hall or some rubbish

>>2764795
>decades after the witch hunts of Nuremberg, old Nazis with nothing to lose still keep their trap shut

>>2764811
Like that woman who was sent to prison for holocaust denial when she was in her 90s? I don't know about you but I don't want to die in prison or be hounded by Jewish zealots.

>>2764805
That doesn't prove or disprove the photo. The photo is labeled in an emotionally abusive way without any evidence presented for it as I pointed out. You have tiny specs supposed to be people going off to die.

>>2764780
You can disprove the existence of Napoleon or the Roman Empire with this logic. Basically there is no reason to study history because it can all be a one big lie.

>>2757477

Are you okay anon? Mentally?

>>2764823
Indeed you can. But that doesn't make our accounts of Napoleon or Roman to be accurate does it? The past is the past, it's as real as fiction is because we can't experience it first hand. Take whoever's account you like and think is true and you maybe entirely wrong all the same.

>>2764818
The woman wasn't even associated with the camps or in the upper echelons of the Nazi party. What the fuck would she know? You're falling for a double-negative yourself by saying that holocaust didn't happen just because it's criminalised to deny in some countries
>Jewish zealots
It's very easy to believe this shit if you overplay Jewish influence in society. Do you really think for 75 years, the Jews have kept academia the world-over on lockdown? I will admit they have a strong influence in banking, media and communism but it doesn't mean they're all sitting behind closed doors rubbing their hands together
>photo labelled emotionally abusively
I agree. But if we ignore the annotations, look at the buildings there and listen to what those present have said then a very different picture to the one you're proposing is painted.

>>2764805
Besides these written and verbal accounts what is the evidence for the Holocaust?

>>2764829
Oh boy, now you are going full Hayden White.

>>2764836
Other documents. German reports, Nazi diaries, reports from the Polish resistance.

>>2764836
I could turn the question on you and say: other then magically invalidating every single piece supporting the Holocaust since 1945 because muh Jooish conspiracy, what evidence do you have for denying the Holocaust? Any written or verbal accounts of your own? You do have the Leuchter Report about Auschwitz made by a man with a Bachelor of fucking Arts but not much else.

We also have Einsatzgruppen documents (that Irving admitted Hitler probably saw) that specifically list Jews as targets for one. But that counts as written evidence doesn't it?

>>2764835
I wasn't presenting the woman as evidence for anything except that it would be a bad idea to deny the holocaust in public still for many of these people.

Who do you think funds academia? Do you think money just falls from the sky or is academia part of "The cathedral" which is the entire top tier of society working together?

We return to how much we can trust these accounts which was all my argument ever was. I didn't make any claim to if something is true or not, I have not made my opinion on the holocaust known. I have simply pointed out that the flaws in this evidence makes it unreliable as it's presented.

>>2764849
Can I find these sources on the web?

>>2764857
Except this is not the only evidence.

You have:
testimonies: descriptions how the crematoria looked like, some of them from people who built them
>testimonies from the Nazis
>blueprints
Now you see a photo with a building that looks like those described crematoria. It's very likely that it's indeed the crematorium.
Oh, and the same buildings were also for some reason destroyed by retreating Nazis.

What more evidence do you need?

>>2764866
Some of them, yes.

>>2764866
All of this is on public record. Nobody is hiding it. Just google around

>>2764873
>Testimonies over under duress in a hostile climate
>Blue prints of buildings knocked down and then rebuilt not to match the original plans in many cases
>These buildings even had dramatic effects added to them like scratches in brick work.
>Nazis wouldn't destroy things which would offer their enemies shelter as they fled

Why aren't there pictures of active gas chambers or anything of the sort? Doesn't seem possible to be able to take apart a gas chamber while being attacked in every single case.

There is a reason to be skeptical as I said.

>>2764890
>Almost a century later guards saying Holocaust happened despite hostile climate gone
>Poor Polish reconstruction somehow means that Allied aerial shots, original German blue prints, forensics on ruins, and first-hand accounts mean nothing
>Nazis only destroyed a select few buildings including the Crematoriums while leaving most structures untouched

>>2764907
Are you seriously claiming the hostile climate to Nazis is gone? Are you having a fucking laugh?

Aerial shots don't show you whats inside them. As we've just covered first hand accounts aren't reliable.

Lets say the crematoriums are the only buildings able to have a fire in them. Destroying them means your enemy has a much harder time not freezing to death.

We're going in a loop at this point.

>>2764890
>>Blue prints of buildings knocked down and then rebuilt not to match the original plans in many cases
They weren't rebuilt. There is one gas chamber in Auschwitz that was reconstructed, the only one that wasn't destroyed. It's the same building with added chimney (it was dismantled by the Nazis) and windows for throwing pellets with Zyklon B (which were sealed by the Nazis). That's it. They didn't build the whole thing anew.

>Nazis wouldn't destroy things which would offer their enemies shelter as they fled
And yet they didn't destroy the old gas chamber that was turned into an air shelter during the war. Weird, isn't it?

The problem of this debate is the huge conflict of interests that exists from both sides.

>>2764923
A hostile climate as in they wont be killed or tortured by an occupying force. The worst they'd get is 4 years in a minimum security prison or house arrest.
And I'm sorry, but you haven't wiped away the accounts of every single person who was there. I focus on the guards since I know anything a Jew says would be dismissed by /pol/.

>Lets say the crematoriums are the only...
You're doing a lot of mental gymnastics to come to a conclusion here. It seems more likely that something suspicious was going on in those buildings.
The guards had residences of their own to stay in that weren't destroyed and the town of Auschwitz itself could have provided accomodation to that Soviets.

>>2750461
>It's not MY fault, it's YOUR FAULT! WORK HARDER PEASANTS

t. he eternal austrian

>>2764953
There's no mental gymnastics going on. I'm presenting you a reasonable doubt for the image posted as evidence.

>>2764984
It's not reasonable.

>>2764947
And what would that be?

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>>2764780

None of you have ever answered this question.

When the German officers were on trial for war crimes, none of them actually went went "Oh Gott no, the killings never happened! Its a lie!" but rather "We were only following orders!" argument instead. If you were going to testify and you know you were screwed and you knew this to be false wouldn't you say it never happened instead of just saying that it was all Hitler's fault.

>>2765932

Even Manstein was complaining in letters about the Einsatzgruppen.

>>2750324
Imagine a bunch of Syrian refugees coming to your country, crying about being oppressed back home, and slowly creating their own state out of half your country.

That's basically how Israel was created. Kys and get a clue

>>2766484
Palestine wasn't a country in 1948.

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Where is the photos of jews being gassed?

>>2768291
>pics or it didn't happen as a historical standard
Where are the pics that Julius Caesar got stabbed by senate??

>>2768344
I have them but you have to trade me for them

>>2763577
Old /pol/ still exists on Infinity. 4chan /pol/ is basically reddit at this point.

>>2768515
Naw familia, it's just old pol shined up and cleaned off because they suddenly found themselves in the position of being the Authority.

>>2768524
Every old /pol/ack fucked off to other imageboards after jewt pulled the /pol/ocaust in 2014, only cucks and newfag reddit clutter remained.

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>>2768532
Surely not... every one...