>never did a days work in his life >shamelessly lived off

Good post.

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Marxists needs to be castrated.

His book "commie manifesto" reads like a babbys first essay on philosophy. I can't believe people took it seriously.

>>2743695
His status as an immigrant prevented him from holding a normal job but he primarily worked as a Journalist. As well as spending most of his life working on his Philosophical and Sociological writings that would influence the future of global politics for centuries to come. Which probably accounts for more work and achievement than you could ever hope for in your whole life.

Sage.

>>2743806
According to Marx's own labor value theory, this is wrong. Only hours worked matter, not impact or importance.

>>2743806
I would rather be an obscure nobody than have the blood of millions of people on my hands.

>>2743818
The blood is on hands of capitalists.

>>2743813
Not sure that Marx ever meant to imply that all labor is equally or objectively valuable - only that labor is the only thing which creates value from idle capital.

>>2743695
This is true, obviously he would't write a theory that would contradicts his own lifestyle

>>2743728
Can't believe people still take it seriously. Literally the most murderous ideology in history. Christianity and even murderous Islam do not come close.

>>2743806
>sitting on your ass and writing is work
The absolute state of (You)

>Sage
>>>/r/eddit

>>2743813
How to show you didn't read marx in a single post. Why are you retards so proud of being ignorant?

>>2743843
>"Murderous Islam"
My sides.

>>2743932
Double negative

>>2743806
>influence the future of global politics for centuries to come
As well as being one of the primary contributions to the birth of academic sociology.
Which is a pretty amazing feat in itself.

>>2743944
>birth of academic sociology
So pure ideology disguised as science, great achievement

>>2743944
Yet another negative about Marx. Fucking hell.

>>2743695
>never did a days work in his life
Huh? Marx was a working journalist for good parts of his life.

>>2743955
Journalism isn't work

>>2743955
>writing is work
Get a job.

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>>2743695
>lives in a time when education is reserved for the bourgeoisie
>lives in cities where the poor are literally dying in the streets
>lets nor forget engles totally went out with a factory girl from Manchester
>participated int the paris commune
>was not defined by his class

will this pathetic revisionism never end

>>2743983
None of that refutes anything OP wrote.

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>>2743695
>anon won't ever open these books and see 100 pages of sources

>tfw Marx spent almost every waking moment of his life either researching or writing the most influential pieces of philosophy of the last 150 years
>tfw this anon won't ever even begin to grasp the amount of work that went into Marx and Engels writings

Those guys were walking encyclopedias, that level of erudition is simply not present anymore in our society.

>>2744013
um no my half assed pseudo propganda american education is enough to refute literally every point marx has ever made

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>>2744013
And look what came of that work

>>2743967
If you want to make money doing it, it sure is. If you don't believe me and think journalism is so easy, why don't you become a journalist? Easy money, right?

>>2744049
I won't because I'm not a faggot or a woman with a basic bitch ideology and worldview to push because I've never encountered genuine people or genuine culture

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>>2744013

>>2744013
>reading is work
You must be very stupid.

>>2743845
>Manual laborer about to lose his job to a Chink/Desi.

>>2744059
Ah yes, faggots and women like Mark Twain, Jack London, and George Orwell. Mussolini too, for that matter.
So why don't you become a righteous truth-telling journalist then? Easy money, right? Change the world?

>>2744013
Does this mean we should waste precious time from our brief lives to meet Marx on his own terms? Why can't this logic be applied to being biblically literate or being an expert on Confucius? The time period when Marxism was novel enough and apparently plausible enough as a workable philosophy is long over, and it's time to move on to more urgent matters.

>>2744066
You seem very upset anon. Tell me again how sitting down on your ass all day getting handouts from your friend is work?

>>2744025
Keep believing it.

>>2744061
That's why I've mentioned the amount of sources in his book: RLH's books were just improvised sci-fi/pulp stories, Marx's and Engel's books are instead some of the most solid and well researched piece of social science and philosophy in history.

>>2744040
Pol Pot literally said that he has never read Marx.

>>2744062
>reading = researching
Your lack of formal education is showing, my friend.

>>2744078
Mate not him but anyone can be a "journalist" now. Set up some shitty blog write some tearful article about how hard trannies have it and send it off to Cracked. Congratulations you're a journalist.

>>2744089
Kek. I was correct you're a fucking moron.

>>2744089
The blood of the Holodomr, The Great Leap Forward and the countless political prisoners are still on Marx and Engel's hands, they've destroyed more than they've created and they're failures

>>2744089
>formal education
Porky nonsense

>>2744081
Lost your job to chinks already, I guess.

>>2744091
Yes, but can "anyone" actually make money doing journalism? No. That bit's harder. And what's even extra special harder is to make money doing it honestly, without becoming a shill or a bullshit artist like the cable news people and the Bannon types.

>>2744091
>Mate not him but anyone can be a "journalist" now. Set up some shitty blog write some tearful article about how hard trannies have it and send it off to Cracked.
This is why fake news happens.

People like you consider them to be.

>>2744107
>y-y-you have no job!
Just like Marx

>>2744099
>The blood of the Holodomr, The Great Leap Forward and the countless political prisoners are still on Marx and Engel's hands
So, according to this strain of thinking, the blood spilled by market capitalism is on the hands of Adam Smith? What a monster!

>>2744117
It actually is, Adam Smith is rotting in hell for spreading his philosophy

>>2744112
>people like you
You know fuck all about me you sanctimonious cunt

>>2744109
No I'd imagine it's hard to earn a living as a journalist. Karl Marx, for example, couldn't.

>>2743695
Let's assume this assessment of Marx's theories:
>revolutionary new system where people who do fuck all have everything handed to them
were even remotely accurate, for the sake of argument.

How exactly would
>never did a days work in his life
>shamelessly lived off handouts from Engels
reflect upon the validity of his theories at all?

>>2744134
>how exactly does being a work shy con man reflect on his system that encourages shying away from work

>>2744136
Who better to write exactly that? If I'm trying to plant a garden in my backyard, I'm not going to consult my accountant.

>>2743695
Remember too that he thought the that the bourgeoisie professional revolutionaries (i.e. people like himself) would be the ones doing all the leading and holding all the important positions while the proles did the fighting. Much like modern commies in that regard where everyone wants to be the guy directing things from the office.

>>2744079
>the contradictions of capitalism are no longer an issue
>capitalism has no part in the issues of today

Americans are literally the most retarded people on the planet.

>>2743818
you're in luck then

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If you ignore Marx because he never ""worked"", then I guess you should follow everything Engels believed because he owned a factory?

>>2743695
He worked as a journalist and a newspaper editor.

>>2745648
Nah, lets just ignore Marx

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>>2743695
Does this kill Marx ?

>>2743728
>His book "commie manifesto" reads like a babbys first essay on philosophy. I can't believe people took it seriously.

It was written like "babbys first essay" because it was a guide for everyday plebs on their situation within the class system and how to start a revolution.

Also it was a pamphlet, not a book you dimwit.

>>2746275
this tbqh

>Marx works at the British Library and then as an academic funded by private businessman
ahah lazy commie get a job
>Engels works as a journalist and businessman
ahah stupid hypocrite commie

Only spastic an-caps seem to argue like this

>writing for newspapers isn't work
>correspondet work isn't work
>reading and excerpting isn't work
Everyone who thinks that intellectual work isn't work never worked intellecutally.

>>2743813
>Lohnarbeit is the same as Arbeit
sure thing bud.
>>2743806
this

>>2744013
Fun fact is that the published works represent like 20% of the stuff he wrote. I know guys working on the new revised MEGA (the famous socialist philosopher Herfried Münker) and they won't be done for like 30 more years. I asked them how much it's going to be and he said they did the math once and it will be like 2 Billy shelves.

>>2746294
>Yeah, Marx never worked for money. He never wrote like articles or something.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/newspapers/new-york-tribune.htm

>>2743813
LVT is unfalsifiable, his Dialectical Materialism is a contradiction in terms, and his predictions were vague and wrong. Many of his critiques of classical capitalism were devastating, especially the instability of capitalism. Capitalism is prone to crisis because capitalism grows though crises. Marx understood that the weak and inefficient companies die off in a recession and so there is a successive increase in efficiency over time of the entire system. The incorrect prediction he made was that these cyclical booms and bust would get larger and more frequent eventually producing a crash so devastating that the bourgeoisie join up with the workers and seize the means of production in industrial countries (and this could never succeed in 3rd world nations, hence the failure of agrarian-nationalists like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc). But then lots of an-caps say that 1929 lead to 50 years of Socialism, and they think we live in a global socialist-Keynesian conspiracy (they think neoclassicals are socialists lol), so the ancap view of the 20th century seems to vindicate Marx...

>>2746309
I know, but the mongs criticise Marx without knowing anything about his life and without once reading his major works... And they seem to think everything he ever wrote was useless..

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>Karl Marx Was A Racist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XLlG1SfKj8

wtf, I love Marx now!

>>2746324
All right. Yeah too many people on both fronts are memeing about Marx. I enjoyed personally most of the stuff I read but I would never got out and base my agende on him. He is a good starting point for a numbers of fields though.

But saying he was lazy is factually wrong as someone ITT already pointed out. Dude was obsessed with reading and excerpting stuff which is very well documented (since we have the excerpts and his footnoes). The sheer amound of reading is even more stunning if you check the variety of stuff he read (history, economics, theology, philology, archeology, biology, law).
For this and for his writing style, which today triggers people, he will remain a strong inspiration for my own academic life.

>>2746330
My original post was ironic, I was mocking ancaps, m'lad/

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>"Marxism has no flaws!"
>*Marxism is attempted and thousands to millions are killed by the Marxist state in an extremely short amount of time*
>"It wasn't perfect therefore it wasn't Marxism!"

>>2746325
>19th century white materialist scientist believes that biology partly determines peoples behavior
Stop the fucking presses right there!
>>2746331
Yeah, I got that too late.

>>2746333
>it's Marxism if the people doing it call themselves Marxists
What do you thinkg about the transgender movement bud?

>>2746333
Ironically, this was primarily how Stalin justified the mass murdering and enslavement of his own population

> mr stalin sir, we're having big problems over here sir

> nonsense comrade. communism as we know is a perfect system. therefore any problems are caused by criminals and conspirators. arrest those responsible

>... but sir

> 20 years. Gulag

>>2746333
>The Democratic People's Republic of Korea
>North Korea is a democracy
>North Korea is a republic

Try coming up with an actual argument bud

>>2746325
Yes, Marx was a notorious anti-semite.

>>2746343
>implying the exact same fucking thing couldn't have happened under a fascist, nationalist or csarist regime
Not saying the Leninism didn't make things worse but there is an inherent humanist quality to Marxism that early 20th century Russia lacked.

Also it's doubtful Stalin ever read Marx so the only Marxism he knew was Marxism-Leninism which is different from what Marx created in the 19th cenutry and which he despised. In his criticism of paradogmatic bigotry he even stated he himself wouldn'd call himself "Marxist". Again I am not ideolozing the guy but putting Stalin in a context of history that is a little more complex than the cartoonish version of the past you get from /pol/-macros.

>>2746356
Well he was more like Anti-judaic since his opinion wasn't based on biologism but religion.

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>>2746333
Marx: Based on the teleology of history, industrial nations will eventually become socialist. Parts of the bourgeoisie will join the industrial proletariat in order to seize the means of production. Then some stuff happens, no more class conflict because no more class dialectic?
Hegel's ghost: no mang, I was talking about geist, the dialectic is a dialectic of the spirit and the synthesis of dialectic is quasi-spiritual. You can't have dialectical materialism, it doesn't make sense.

later...

Lenin: Marx is right, it's time for the workers to rise up (takes G*rman money)
Plekhanov: Russia isn't an industrialised society, Marx's own theory predicts your failure. Don't do it. Russia is now in a democracy, it needs liberalism to produce the bourgeoisie and so then the industrial proletariat first, any revolution would lead to a 3rd world despotic governm-
Lenin: SUCC
Plekhanov: The Bolshevik Revolution is a gateway revolution of the worst kind. It's a bad revolution, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive shipping faggotry and DARKNESS. The normal anon can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the revolution itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.

later...

Molymeme: 3rd world communism in China, Cambodia, Cuba, Venezuela, etc. all failed. This means Marxism was wrong, even though they failed for reasons Marxism explains.

>>2746338
>invent infallible perpetual motion machine ideology
>people attempt and fail catastrophically at implementing said political perpetual motion machine
>"well clearly it was their faults and not the infallible perpetual motion machine ideology"

>>2746380
>a political ideology so good that it can only be implemented in a hypothetical dystopian future based on industrializing 1800's capitalism

wow marx was right about everything!

>>2746382
>>invent infallible perpetual motion machine ideology
This is exactly what he didn't do and didn't want to do. He can be the origin of Marxism without being his creator. People other than him (Engels, Bebel, Lenin) did extend very small part of his works to an ideology while ignoring giant contracdicting parts, they fucking streamlined it.
Also if you had read Marx you would see that the vast majoriy of his work is the criticism of bourgois ideology. Only a tiny fraction is devoted to revolutionary praxis and the communist future.
I would go into detail and even partly agree with you if you would stop greentexting and memeing but without you reading stuff like Anti-Dühring or some introduction on Marxism at least there simply is not point.

>>2746403
>hypothetical dystopian future based on industrializing 1800's capitalism
Confirmed for not having read Marx.

>>2746407
Marxists tried to get around the question: "why didn't England and other industrial nations have a workers' revolution" with the theory of Imperialism which was demonstrably false, and simply an attempt to rationalize the failure of Marx's predictions. The point I am making is that Marx's theory is wrong based on his teleological assumption, and the actual communist revolutions of history were not fulfillments of Marx's teleological history which is wrong anyway.

>>2743695
Unlike all those economists who worked a blue-collar job and aren't just paid to write propaganda for "free-market" think-tanks I presume

>>2746427
>Marxists tried to get around the question: "why didn't England and other industrial nations have a workers' revolution

No, they don't. There are elaborate firmly Marxist explanations for that from weird people like Bernstein (some Marxist idea theorems about capitalism is wrong, the working class is getting relatively wealthy) and Gramsci ("capitalism captured the state of mind of the working class, false class consciousness). Not that I agree with any of them tho...
Those debates are 100 years old. You not knowing about them, and the fact that you wrote about "18th century capitalism" in Marx' works when he was clearly impressed by Manchester capitalism of the 19th century, makes me think you simply don't know what you are talking about.
>the actual communist revolutions of history were not fulfillments of Marx's teleological
If you look carefully and the actualy revolutions very few of them were started and carried by Marxists.
>Marx's teleological history which is wrong anyway.
I agree but that doesn't make him useless. Mommsen and the Prussian historians all shared the teleological nothing of history. I also don't think a dude sitting in his office in Manchester is to blame for mass murder 70 years later commited by an Georgian dude that never read his stuff.

>>2746439
This. Just compare his life that that of Ayn Rand and Milton Freeman.

>>2746448
did Marx write one book of Marxism and one hundred books of Marxist apologetics?

>>2746452
>Friedman was initially unable to find academic employment, so in 1935 he followed his friend W. Allen Wallis to Washington, where Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal was "a lifesaver" for many young economists.[30] At this stage, Friedman said that he and his wife "regarded the job-creation programs such as the WPA, CCC, and PWA appropriate responses to the critical situation,"
>During 1940, Friedman was appointed an assistant professor teaching Economics at the University of Wisconsin–Madison, but encountered antisemitism in the Economics department and decided to return to government service.
Embarrassing.

>>2746448
>>Marxists tried to get around the question: "why didn't England and other industrial nations have a workers' revolution
>No, they don't.
They DID. Both Luxemburg and Lenin wrote about Imperialism. Yes I'm aware of the arguments you're raising. These thinkers had/have to rationalise why Marx's prediction was wrong because they can't accept that his Dialectal Materialism was a nonsense. The real insight of Marx is his critique of classical economy, his ideas on the inherent instability of the market and the necessity of this instability for capitalism to function (markets as dynamic, complex systems).

I replied to that other anon's post, but I was not the anon HE was replying to. When will /his/ become an ID board?

>>the actual communist revolutions of history were not fulfillments of Marx's teleological
>If you look carefully and the actualy revolutions very few of them were started and carried by Marxists.
>>Marx's teleological history which is wrong anyway.
>I agree but that doesn't make him useless.
we agree here. You're confusing me with another anon.

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>>2743831
>communists dindu nuffin

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>>2743695
>>2743721
>>2743727
>>2743728
>>2743818
>>2743840
>>2743843
>>2744040
>>2744059
>>2744079
>>2744099
>>2744115
>>2746225
>>2746244
>>2746333
>>2746427
>>2746581
Great posts

>>2743845
So literally most jobs these days are not work?

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>>2746621
Ninja'ed.

Also, being a journalist for the New York Tribune 200% isn't a job so sirey.

>>2746330
>saying he was lazy is factually wrong
Kek. His wife used to beg him to go get a job

>>2746356
Marx's grandfather was a rabbi.

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NAZBOL REPORTING IN

>>2743695

Poor, beleaguered factory workers don't have time to write things. They don't have the means to express their pain, so Marx took it upon himself to do it for them.

>>2746638
>sitting on your ass writing bullshit while being given handouts by your friends is working

>>2746621
Nothing in the second post refutes the first genius.

>>2743813

according to the edgy liberal version of the labor theory of value maybe.

marx never said only labour mattered. to the contrary.

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>>2746671
It's primarily just to trigger right-"libertarians" desu

>>2746659
>>2746356
Well, his father converted to protestantism and he was considered and anti-semite by some for "On the Jewish Question", even if I still think it's debatable. Look it up.

>>2746375
Yeah, this.

>>2743695
>writes revolutionary new system where people who do fuck all have everything handed to them
Ýou're thinking of capitalism.

>>2746621
Rightists btfo

>>2743983
>TIL everyone in the 1880s didnt work apart from rich people.

>>2743695

Marx stuff on jews sounds like /pol/ wrote it, which always amuses me.

>>2746338
I think that trannies should be respected if they wanna go by whatever they want to. If my buddy James wants to call himself Jamie and get surgery to fix his body image issues I'm gonna call her Jamie. I'll call her her if that's what she wants.

If a Marxist calls themselves a Marxist, they're a Marxist.

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>>2743695
Do people still believe that Marx "invented" communism? Or that communism is just a big welfare state? Sad.

>>2746816
Communism is that people are born with the right to everything aka, welfare.

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>>2746862
>"Communism is that"

>made a communist criticism thread
>never opened a book

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>>2746875

>>2743695
also dont forget how he knocked up his servant

>>2746862
How did you come to this conclusion? As far as I know, communism was more about for-use production and classless societies, but who knows, maybe I've been fooled?

>>2746898
classless means everyone is equal right?
well with that you can just assume that must mean everyone is entitled. Everyone must own a house or a class will form.

>>2746879
shit banter

>>2746898
Class is natural and cant be forced retard.

>>2746910
No, classless doesn't mean everyone is equal, you're jumping conclusions. A class, in the marxian sense is a relation to the means of production, ie. tools, buildings, resources, etc. that are required to create what is necessary for society to reproduce itself. But since we don't only produce the minimum, but exceed this, we also generate surplus. But that's a different topic. Classless means there are no different relations to the MoP, eg. owner and worker, to put it bluntly. This does not, and by all means shouldn't mean, that everyone is equal (nor does it mean "everyone owns everything").

>>2746933
1. Naturalistic fallacy, friend
2. Are you using class in the same way I am, or the liberal idea of upper-, middle-, lower class determined by income?

>>2746910
>classless means everyone is equal right?
It doesn't. You know what ideology claims everyone is equal? The one that says "you, too, could be one of the 1%, if you were as hardworking and dedicated as I."

>>2746933
>cant be forced retard.
That's why we want to abolish it. Classes have been forced upon us for far too long.

>>2746807
So if I come up to you and tell you I am the messiah, our lord and saviour Jesus Christ, what you accept that I am Jesus in flesh and blood?

>>2743813
Labor hours aren't units of time, but the amount of hard work expected of an average healthy laborer in a single hour.

Putting together an Ikea shelf requires 2 labor hours, even if an industrious person can do it in 1 hour or a lazy person in 3 hours.

>>2746892

Thomas Jefferson did the same thing but nobody ever seems to give him shit for that.

>>2743843
Communism is responsible for 0 (zero) deaths as it has never been tried.

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>>2746275
This.

If you have any real interest in understanding Marx, read Capital.

>>2746933
Raping children is natural, look at Amazonian tribes. Yet that practice is fucking horrific and needs to be destroyed.

>>2743985
OP didn't write anything of consequence.

>>2743843
The most murderous ideology of all is liberal capitalism

>>2747027
Question from curious by stander.

If I want to understand Marxist theory, where do I start? Do I read Communist Manifesto first and then read Capital, or can I go straight into the latter? Anything else I should look up?

>>2743695
>never did a days work in his life
Do you think jews are known for their work rate?
Why do you think they were the owners of the slave ships, and the ones refusing to end slavery?
Do you think they don't have white plebs doing their dirty work as of today?

>>2747065
read marx's essay 'wage labour and capital' for an short good intro

>>2747065
This >>2747133 or go to leftypol, the have introductory material

>>2747065
Also, if you want an introduction to critique on Marx/Engels read Main Currents of Marxism. IIRC he starts expressing his critiques at chapter 12 of the first volume.

>>2747072
>Do you think jews are known for their work rate?
Yeah, man, jewish doctors, engineers, lawyers, tailors, etc are not a thing. They live on welfare or pickpocket the goyim. Holohoax amirite?

>>2747133
>>2747142
Good advice

Somehow, the reddit sub /r/marxism_101 offers some pretty good insight into the foundations of Marxism and recent developments of that tradition.

However, stay far away from other Reddit leftist subs. They're full of hysterical social justice types and LARPing tankies who have never actually read Marx.

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>>2747160
Most Jews go into finance, law or entertainment.

All cancerous industries which don't really contribute anything and made it a purpose to rip off stupid people.

You still have to show me at least one Jew who is a construction workers and BUILDS stuff.

>>2744040
Pol-Pol seriously triggers me.

I want to murder him.

>>2743695
Oh wtf I thought that was Frederick Douglous

>>2747004
No because im an athiest

>>2743946
>studying people is communist

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>>2747247
Ahem

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>>2743695
>capis: "fuck yuo lazy faggots that never work everything is fine just suck more golden dick lol"

>comies: "fucc yuor monies skullfuck everyone who has ever held a dollar bill fuck yuo capitolist faggot pigs"

>marx: guys we're headed towards shit, also in the future inequality might not exist

truly the greatest meme gone wrong of the 20th century

>>2746621
Fuck hahahaha

>>2747247
>Most Jews go into finance, law or entertainment
Is this based on any census or other study?

>All cancerous industries which don't really contribute anything and made it a purpose to rip off stupid people.
Finance is a field of study that deals with investments, it's a tool, not inherently a bad one. If one is scammed, sued, wants to sue someone, needs a divorce among other situations, law is very important. And regarding jews in entertainment, redundantly it entertains people, otherwise they wouldn't consume it

>You still have to show me at least one Jew who is a construction workers and BUILDS stuff.
I don't have to show you anything, anon. I never mentioned jewish construction workers. And btw, even if there were none, what'd be wrong with it?

>>2747684
Why is that valid? I said I am Jesus so by you're own logic you just have to accept that.

>>2743695
He literally advocated for a cult of labor

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>>2746654
>carl marks
I think we can agree the finance industry isn't actually real labor

>>2747065
Don't read CM. Read Wealth of Nations, then read The Ego and His Own, then read Capital. Because that was the shit he was thinking about when he wrote Capital.

>>2744040
t.gender studies

Could someone do an edit on the "hey, what are you doing there?" Communist version where Mao has his people executing birds?

>>2746621
You can insult Rand and Rothbard, but leave Friedman out of this

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>this kills the communist

>>2743695
He was simply working towards his own self-interest. Does this sound familiar to capitalists?

>>2746719
Lolno

>>2747029
And you're fucking dumb and need to be thrown out a helicopter.

>>2746884
neither is "communism is welfare"

>>2748230
Starvation kills the communist, dear leader has decreed bread to be capitalist decadence. Eat some grass instead.

>>2744025
Reality refutes his points, next to none of his predictions have come true and his meme tier labor theory of value is one of the few odeas in economics to be considered objectively wrong. Dunno why people still pay attention to the fevered wank of some old fart from 200 years ago.

>>2747247
Entertainment is great, fuck off

You're correct that finance is largely useless, though

>>2748159
>>2749145
Finance serves as a sort of brain for the investment aspects of the economy. It enables the economy to have a higher level of effective organization than it otherwise would. It is far from unproductive.

>>2747247
>law
If you want to have functioning civilization you need a legal system and rule of law. If you want rule of law it really helps to have independent legal experts who can sell their expertise. What would you replace lawyers with?

>>2749166
t. Porky

>>2746621
OP on suicide watch

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Communist ITT on suicide watch

>>2743728
Yeah, that's the intention of the book, to be as simple as possible and easily accessible, as it is a pamphlet and not a scientific work. Jokes on you this time, you sounded very pretentious.

>>2748277
Yeah, you have nice arguments right there, I bet they are definitely founded in actual knowledge of his work and not buzzwords and phrases thrown in the air. Just for fun could you cite any prediction he did on his work (with context) that didn't come true? Also, as an economist myself I didn't know economic reasoning worked in a way that could "prove" a value theory as "objectively wrong", as ecobomy is not an exact science. Could you explain what is labour value theory and "prove" it wrong?

>to each according to his need, from each according to his ability
>Okay, but bob doesn't want to work for free to feed Bill
>Using force is slavery, paying him a consenting wage is capitalism
>???

>>2749392
How do you propose handling the logistics of building an apartment building without someone handling the logistics of pay, or even knowing where toput one and having a vested interest be cause it will be something people value?

>>2749734
>implying marxiboy had anything intelligent to say
Marx is in Sheol now. Good riddance.

>>2749833
Not an argument.

>>2749785
Can bill work

>>2743727
epic meme XD

>>2744040
Pol Pot was literally a peasant and party functionary who idolized the Middle Ages.

>>2749785
Pretty sure they both collectively own the means of production but if nobody helps Bill he's on his own. Under Communism there's no justification to attack Bob unless he tries to profit from the scarcity of his goods.

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>>2746621

>>2750071
/pol/ isn't a blue board

>>2749793
By giving out loans with collateral???

>>2749785
There's a simple way of each according to his need and from each according to his ability.

Welfare state for the bare necessities, market economy for luxuries.

>>2746664
Old meme, become an AnFash!

>>2744125
If you consider every blogger to be a journalist, yeah you are part of the problem.

>>2746621
>you have to be a right wing libertarian to disagree with marx
leftypol is trying really hard to be pol in terms of mental retardation

>>2750080
it's probably cripplechan

Who is bernie sanders

>>2748230
>le poverty declining meme
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/08/exposing-great-poverty-reductio-201481211590729809.html

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>>2748224
t. neoliberal

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>>2750071
>muh yooman naitcher

>>2750396
Yes, AJ is very reliable indeed. Let me counter your argument with some Breitbart article.

>the stupidest sheep and workhorses in society can somehow run it better than the smart and wicked
If you start from idiotic premises it doesn't matter whether you spend your whole life "researching" to prove them, it's just nonsense

even over a hundred years after his death middle class wanabe millionaires still shit their pants because of his vague ideas about making the world a bit better

hes gets my approval for this

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>>2750662
Same

>>2750418
>sarcastically repeating something is equal to refuting it
No.
Marx was unironically a blank slatist. That's meme-tier psychology. Not that surprising from the man who gave us meme-tier economics but still.
>>2750662
Yes, middle class people are so afraid of Marx, they're totally not the biggest proponents of marxism in any given population. They totally go on witch hunts for marxists, they get them fired from their jobs, they ruin their career, this is totally happening.

>>2750418
>contemporary depression rates are caused by exploitation despite the fact that they were lower in the past when exploitation was even higher
wow...is this...the power of marxist analysis?

>>2750662
>>2750859
Marxism is literally the religion of educated middle-class people.

Or at least some kind of idealized Leftism.

>>2750920
>>2750859
>american education

>>2750944
I'm not American.

>>2750944
I'm not american, you moron. Marx unironically says that men are exclusively shaped by the environment they're in.

>>2751023
which is true
>>2750965
leftism is not a word, its an american invention, stop using it

>>2751046
>leftism is not a word, its an american invention, stop using it

No it's not lol

>>2750418
>a tweet from some nobody
Leftist "logic", everyone.

>>2751046
>which is true
No, it's not true, genes are a thing, you lysenkoist moron.

>>2751181
doesnt determine everything especially not your world view, morals and social standards

>>2751215
I didn't say genes determine everything, can you even read? I said Marx unironically stated that the environment is the only thing that matters and this is just flat out wrong.

>>2750080
8ch faggot.

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What do I need to know before reading this?

>>2746952
financial and social mobility would refer to a non-caste system and a system where people are given equal opportunity, not equal value.

>>2748145
Can you give a quote, if he "literally advocated" it?

>>2749785
That's not a imperative, but a description on how a communist society would work like.

>>2749793
People can handle finances and resources allocation, without having to be the sole owners.

>>2750920
>Or at least some kind of idealized Leftism
What is this even supposed to mean? Since when is leftism a system?

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>marxists in 2017

LmfaoUL

>>2746621
>because other people were bad this means marx wasn't bad

What argument is this

>>2751799
>People can handle finances and resources allocation, without having to be the sole owners

Of course they can, but without a good stake in it and someone else being on the hook, there's a moral hazard. A person that stands to profit will at least attempt to make things go well. A person who gets resources regardless of their success or contributions will not care.

Incentives are everything.

>>2750062
Isn't labor itself a good? Wouldn't specialised labor be a scarce good? Why should John spend years in aircraft mechanic courses if he won't be able to profit more?

People just don't invest without a tangible stake. If "society" owns a farm, why bother improving it? The benefits will diffuse among everyone and you'll get a one year extra grain of rice per decade.

>>2750105
Who determines what's a necessity? The public? The public surely won't just call more and more things essential until the system collapses, right? Not like pads are being demanded right now or anything.

>>2751893
Keep in mind that in modern Western nations like the US, most of the public is not poor people looking for handouts, and poor people looking for handouts tend not to vote as often as middle class and rich people, anyway. For example, in the US most of the electorate is at least middle class. This makes it unlikely that the public will just keep voting in free stuff, since most of the public, and an even bigger proportion of the part of the public that votes, are the people who pay taxes, not the people who just receive from the government.

However, this could change if there was a serious economic downturn. So I agree that it is important that there be some sort of mechanisms in place to prevent people from just voting communism into place. That's why it's better to have a republic than a democracy.

>>2743843
>do not come close

...almost got me

>>2751814

>Writing isn't a job

>>2747072
He was a lutheran before going atheist. And fairly antisemitic I think

Can someone post the infograph of him being related by a few steps to the Rothschilds.

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>>2752850
>his 3rd cousin was married to one
>this makes him bad, becuz sp00ky j00 magik
Pic somewhat related

ad hominem fallacy

>>2751555
The general ideas behind classical economics.

>>2752850
Is it really surprising that two Jewish families in the same country are distantly related?

>>2754102
Yeah its surprising how the biggest influence on pretty much the only other option for an economic system on the globe is related to the biggest players on the other side.

>>2754124
But in Prussia in 1818 there were probably 40,000 Jews at most. You can probably make equally strong connections between Karl Marx and random members of any other Jewish family in Prussia.

>>2754134
t.seth rothschild

>>2744091

Do it then.

>>2744099

Things that happened more or less because of the rise of capitalism: more or less everything.

not really a good argument against Marx.

>>2744136

well,
it's a logical fallacy.

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why do burgers love talking about low shitty people nowadays?

do they have low self-esteem?

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>>2744099
And are the 20 million annual deaths by capitalism attributable to Ricardo and Smith?

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>>2754217
This is a dumb meme because enormous successes happened due to socialist regimes. They didn't establish communism, but the industrialization programs of Stalin and Mao essentially eradicated abject poverty in these countries. By the time of their death nobody went hungry in the Soviet Union or China, whereas malnutrition in feudalistic societies is unavoidable.

A sharply improved standard of living can be observed in both these countries, corresponding to increases in life expectancy, declining infant mortality, population growth, and access to medicine, education, and technology.

The failures of certain socialist policies led to unmistakable suffering, but these were essentially bumps in the road toward greater prosperity. Modern Chinese don't speak about the Maoist famine anywhere near to the degree of Western observers, because to the Chinese the Maoist era is most notable for its rapid growth and industrialization.

>>2746313

In what way is dialectical materialism a "contradiction in terms"?

>>2744136
You just going to go full ad hom? Just like that?

>>2754219
No, they are attributable to the invisible hand of the free market culling the weak.

>>2754318
That such tragedies happen is why we must move past capitalism

Communism is the jew's end game. A world where they can go around living of the goyim's hard work. Moving anywhere as rootless cosmopolitans.

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>>2754318
The "weak", as in the ones who weren't born into riches like literally all wealthy stronk people are?

>>2753393
Very pretentious post

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>>2744040
fixed that for you
>blamed as the bad guy for it

>>2744078
All of them did more than write you cumslurp. Marx didnt.

>>2744117
Capitalism exists in nature, though. Smith created it just as much as Darwin created evolution.

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>>2756752
>Capitalism exists in nature
How?

>>2746313
>LVT(sic) is unfalsifiable

Why do people tout falsifiability as though it were some sort of iron-clad rule of what's right and wrong. Even in science there are things you can't readily apply it to (the theory of evolution, for instance). Something being unfalsifiable doesn't make it wrong.

Further, while he was wrong about the particulars, he was right that the conditions of capitalism became unbearable to the point where people banded together to do something about it.

>>2756752
>Capitalism exists in nature
zizeklaughing.jpg

>>2756752
>capitalism exists in nature

Kek. Capitalism is an economic system that arose out of the ashes of mercantilism.

>>2750080
>What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.…. Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man – and turns them into commodities…. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange…. The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.

>>2758247
There's a shit ton of observations which would falsify evolution.

>>2758262
Fuck off back to /pol/, Marx wasn't Jewish, he was an atheist and none of those arguments apply to him.

>>2758262
>Marx thread
>suddenly Hitler quotes

Stormbabbies pls go

>>2756752
Like all those bears going around charging rent for using the stream?

>>2758265
Try to approach the theory of evolution with the intent of falsifying the theory.

>>2756752
Adam Smith was market economy, not capitalism.

>>2754219
It's this type of shit that makes me wonder why governments fund their own destruction (college education)

>>2754382
no. The tragadies would have happened regardless whether it was capitalism or communism. The literal only difference between the two is deciding who gets what, the hard working, the smart, or the lazy.

Communism is shit long term, whereas capitalism is the best for what we have been through.
>muh tragedies that I assume hypothetically could be avoided like natural death
is nonsense in comparison to all the unnatural deaths of communism.

>>2758262
What is the relevance of this to /pol/ not being a blue board
>>2758281
It's actually Marx from "The Jewish Question".

>>2754928
Umm... not all wealthy people were born into riches.

>>2754219
>failed communist states in Africa and Asia are capitalism's fault
Nice meme

>>2756752
What the fuck are you doing on a history board?

>>2754254
>tens of millions starved under Mao, but after they died, no one starved under Mao
>therefore, no one starved under Mao
kek

>>2746671

one of friedman's most bestest quotes goes something like this
>you wouldn't expect a doctor who treats your cancer to have cancer himself

the first post is fallacious and the following are just the same

t.non-communist dickhead

>>2750071

I've never seen such a fallacious attack on feudal serfs in my LIFE

>>2750071
THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING DIALECTIC, THAT PARTICULAR DIALECTIC COMES FROM FICHTE.

>>2758283
yes, actually. lots of creatures form symbiotic relationships not unlike the rent system.

>>2747017
no, Thomas Jefferson did not "knock up his servant"

He raped his slaves and forced them to father his children, whom he probably had enslaved themselves.

He's the single greatest example of that quote by Lenin that "freedom" means the same thing for us that it did for ancient Greece: the freedom of slave-owners. Everyone else can just shut up and get back to work

>>2758265
Like what?

>>2758393
There aren't any failed communist states in Africa and Asia

>>2758367
Wait, Marx said this? It reads like somethin out of Mein Kamph.

>>2758567
If it's any consolation Marx's thesis is that get rid of capitalism and this idea of perfidious jewish character ceases to exist.

>>2758624
Marx always had it backwards.

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>>2750863
>the fact that they were lower in the past when exploitation was even higher
>the fact
[Citation needed]

>>2758326
Yes, socialism distributes to the hard working according to the smart. Capitalism takes from the hard working and distributes to the lucky lazy and the smart.

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>>2751814
>all of these adhoms.

>>2759008

>Yes, socialism distributes to the hard working according to the smart.

Where do Kulaks fit into this?

>>2744040
>Posting a CIA funded nigga who fought against based anti-imperialist Uncle Ho.

>>2753393
The irony is that post can be applied to almost every other leftist movement that exists currently.

>>2754219
>Anon, why did you kill thousands of people today? If you had infinite resources you could have prevented everyone from dying.
False equivalency, not intervening =/= responsibility for death.

>>2758255
I'd say capitalism was rather an expansion of mercantilism from a regional to individual level.

>>2758567
Marx was a secular/converted Jew basically entirely assimilated into German gentile culture. He believed Jews who couldn't do this were backwards and out-of-place, not unlike the masses of landless peasants rendered powerless by capitalism and forced to migrate to cities for industrial work.

One of Marx's central arguments, which has been entirely vindicated by history, was that capitalism grinds to dust many ancient cultural identities in its homogenizing and globalizing pressures. He believed that cultures which could not adapt to these changes, like the Jews of Europe, would suffer if they clung to the cultural affectations of an outdated mode of production.

>>2759235
They died because their economic system failed them. The same goes for all the people who starved in the Ukrainian famine.

>>2759347
>Marx "religion is the opiate of the masses" converted
>not knowing his father, like many Jews, converted outwardly for economic gain
>putting a bunch of word's in Marx's mouth when he clearly says Jews without and stipulation or specification beyond that.
>Marx caring about culture

Fucking cancer

>>2759419
And all these deaths are from capitalist countries? Judging by your sources and numbers I sincerely doubt it.

>>2743695
>>2743728

Marx's ideations evolved considerably during his life, anon. They were never quite consistent.

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>>2747041
I hope this is ironic

>>2750418
not an argument

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>>2760199
Ha ha! Yeah, totally my dood!

>>2759933
The only socialist country left is Cuba. Maybe North Korea but who knows what the hell they're doing.

Venezuela is just an edgy Sweden.

>>2747029
>Yet that practice is fucking horrific and needs to be destroyed.

imagine being this spooked

>>2760426
Life osn't just capitalist and socialist. Military dictatorships and places undergoing huge civil wars aren't fair places to critique liberal capitalism. Also, externalizing markets usually demonstrably increases quality of life. Just because capitalisman isn'the finished doesn'the mean it isn't working. Capitalism has only really had since 1989 to create a utopia, by your standards of course it's underwhelming.

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>>2746621
>Bundling Milton "literally right about everything" Friedman in with actual retards Rand and Rothbard

>>2747041
How long until Chomsky dies?

>>2760199
http://www.wnd.com/2016/02/more-slaves-today-than-at-any-time-in-history/

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A lot of people hate on Marx and Engels for profiting from labor of the exploited and using the profit to spend every waking moment studying and making an ideology that benefits the non-working class in practice. It's the same today

>upper middle class to wealthy college students living off daddy's trust fund money sipping Starbucks and etching #ResistCapitalism on their iPhones
>Take up 1% of the population, living only in the inner city and clustered around colleges and offices, destined to work white collar jobs
>Believe that they know what's best for the other 70% of the country in spite of the fact that they're the ones who leech off the blue collar workers
>Rural people, farmers, miners etc are seen as xenophobic and backwards (the words my friend in University right now used exactly when we were talking about the Brexit vote: "Rural people are racist bigots.")
>Sit in their high chairs and pretend they're the oppressed ones

We are the proles, guys.
We're the blue collar working class.
>tfw Marx was a redneck co-opted by libshits

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>>2758552
>what is Zimbabwe

>>2763096
Marx wasn't a redneck. He was more salty about capitalists than pro-worker. Workers are just to tool to take down the injustice that is capitalism. Marx cares to take down the villains, but cares little for the victims.

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>>2743806
He emigrated to LONDON.
Hans Holbein, Handel and the last half dozen monarchs were German.
Or maybe it was his status as a Jew, we all know Benjamin Disraeli and the Rothschild never amounted to much in the mean streets of London where I guess you have to be what? An Anglo-saxon bourgeois male to attain any semblance of respectable employment?
Women and Africans managed to find work in 19th century London, an educated German can not sit on the excuse that "His status as an immigrant prevented him from holding a normal job"

You're comment is so ferociously laced with stupidity that even if it wasn't in defense of Marx, I would assume (owing to your diminished intellectual faculties) that you were a communist.

>>2743721

This

Marx was a parasite

Marx got btfo by Schoppy and Fritz tbqh

>>2758552
they are poor backwater shit whos resemblance to communism is fuck all

>>2746621
>if you don't support x or y, you have to support z
marxists are retarded

>>2763234
>an educated German can not sit on the excuse that "His status as an immigrant prevented him from holding a normal job"
Actually it wasn't his only excuse. The fact that he was a radical anti-Capitalist was also a pretty good reason to have difficulty getting employed anywhere in 19th century Industrial Revolution London.

>You're comment is so ferociously laced with stupidity that even if it wasn't in defense of Marx, I would assume (owing to your diminished intellectual faculties) that you were a communist.
Your*

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>>2763674
>correcting spelling over the internet to try to assert validity of opinion
people still do this?
'choosing' not to be employed doesn't imply difficulty, it's simply impossible to then be employed happily
marx was the equivalent of a NEET. He could never ever comprehend the intentions or incentives acting upon a working-class citizen, nor can many of his followers, as they do not fall into the category either

>>2746621
She wasn't an actor. Leftists BTFO.

>>2765255
>this is what leftists actually believe constitutes an argument

>>2746337
>(((white)))

>>2763096
You've got a really incomplete outlook.

Liberals are garbage parasites, but they aren't the only ones who leech of the working class. Republican politicians and elites are just as bad in their efforts to transfer wealth from the poorest to themselves, and strip away any protections working class people have.

>>2744107
haha fucking Americuck

>>2746275
>freeloading whiny socialist can't be fucked to actually write a book
Wew

>>2743845
>The absolute state of (You)
desk job =/= posting on 4chan all damn day

>the objective balue of...
Dropped.

>>2743695
This is bullshit. He was a journalist.

>>2767941
Kek 306 posts later someone actually challenges op's basic premise

I love this place

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>>2761800
>right about everthing

Assumptions DO matter and "The Methodology of Positive Economics" is larping pseudo-philosophy. He had no grasp of the epistemology or ontology of economics and instead began a tradition of maths autism. Now you can't read an economics paper without 1.these are the loopy assumptions --> 2.this is x economic model --> 3.plug and chug --> 4. results... inconclusive. Mainstream academic economists are aspies with no connection to reality. If their models do not correctly predict some hypothesis (because models predict ceteris paribus which is just absurd in a complex evolving system) they assume they assume that this was because "agents" did not act rationally in line with the models' assumptions. The model is assumed to be right, and the conditions wrong. This is circular, often unfalsifiable nonsense.

Economists predict recessions all the time and are nearly always wrong. They say "well a recession will happen we just can't tell you when", and they are as useless as a doctor that says "my prognosis is that you will die at some point in the future from some illness". The economists do not predict the 2007 collapse and blame it on "exogenous" variables, and the debt premium is shoehorned in to correct the failed model. Economists invent "constants" (which are not constant as economics is not a physical science) to fudge their models to fit reality based on past data.

I could go on for hrs, but Friedman above all has lead to the ubiquity of pseudoscientific crystal healers (neoclassical economists). Most people leave university after undergraduate, then go into the world preaching these nonsense models as bureaucrats, journalists, politicians, bankers, and civil servants. Pick up a typical neoclassical textbook like Varian and you'll have a really good laugh. Keynes' witticism should be adapted to "Undergraduate Economics: the inculcation of the incomprehensible into the indifferent by the incompetent."

/rant

>go on /pol/
>reply to someone, mention Hegel
>"fucking commie kike like marx"
>"Hegel was a nationalist and the Right Hegelians lead to Hitler"
>"Hitler was a commie, muh free markets"

This is the caliber of the people behind anti-Marx "muh leftism" posts.

>>2763674
>The fact that he was a radical anti-Capitalist was also a pretty good reason to have difficulty getting employed anywhere in 19th century Industrial Revolution London.
...The fact that he was not willing to work was why he had difficulty getting employed. You've moved the goalposts a bit there from it being his status as an immigrant.
>>2765141
Apparently, bit embarrassing desu.