What is the FUNDAMENTAL difference between the left and the right

>>2742646
There are two types of people in the world. The people of the left want to control people and enrich themselves in the process.

The people of the right want to be left the fuck alone.

Which is why the left is so much better at controlling people and stealing from them; they've had thousands of years of practice.

And why the right has so few champions for people leaving us the fuck alone. They're leftists who saw the void and called themselves people of the right.

All totalitarian, dictatorship, fascist, etc. forms of government are of the left. All of them. Communism, Nazism, Fascism, all of them. they are brought about by useless people who cannot survive unless they prey on useful people who want to be left the fuck alone.

File: LeftvsRight.jpg (137KB, 633x402px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 633x402px

Metaphysically/metapolitically speaking this chart is handy.

>>2742683
t. basic bitch lolbertarian

>>2742683
>there is only one left/right spectrum
you confuse libertarianism and authoratarianism with left and right, one can be authoritarian and left , authoritarian and right, libertarian and left (read bookchin, read bakunin if you are in the `how le libtards will leave us alone` crowd) or authoritarian right.

But I know your kind exists and will always exists, portraying every man they don't like as a leftist, from Franco to Pinochet who basically genocided the leftists in their countires.

/pol/ can be many things but they are honest, they openly cheer for pinochet and rightly label him as a right winer etc. Unlike you folk, who paint anyone they deem bad red.

>>2742646
>Why is someone left and someone else right? if we really dig for it, really try to get to the bottom of it.
GENETICS

your political ideology can be determined by your genes, most conservatives come from conservative parents etc etc

the boom is genetics, it plays a huge role in your political ideology. There are a lot of studies about this subject, google scholar is your friend.

But this is the elephant in the room, as both left and right want to believe they are totally in control of their thoughts and hate when you tell them most if not all of your ideology was born into you.

Exceptions exist to support the generalization

>>2742695
>state
I have more complaints, but that's the main one.

>>2742695
> everything I hate is left XD
great chart you got here

>>2742731
Then so did Confucius. Good thing we have you.

>>2742778
Evil is of the godless left.

Welcome to reality.

>>2742646
The key difference stems from the acceptance and respect of tradition and ritual. Leftism has always stemmed from materialistic and pragmatic roots, always believing the proverbial trope of the grass is greener.
>>2742695
Good graph, and again notice that the left side of politics (even if you look at the differences between Taoism and Confucius in eastern traditions) come from respect of symbols and traditions / vs the abolition of tradition for expediency/progress.

>>2742819
>twisting the definition of evil

>>2742819
God was always the reason of billions death anon, even nazi were Catholics.

Depends what people want to consider it at any moment

I read an article in Salon that called Bernie Sanders "Third-Way Centrist bullshit", I've had discussions with people who consider themselves leftists who accept Neoliberalism as how things will always be.

>>2742852
>Implying catholics are not of the evil left controlling people and killing Jews.

>>2742695
>someone made this

>>2742853
>Depends what people want to consider it at any moment
what does that even mean? how could it possibly work this way?

Right wingers want things to stay in their own damn box... or something. Watch Jordan Peterson.

>>2742731
>GENETICS
how does that explain anything? it still doesn't say what it is about the person that makes him go left or right. is it that his genes make him more or less agreeable or conscientious, etc.?
what are the actual arguments in the studies you've read?

>>2742646
I believe that leftism was always about a established right that all humans were entitled to, and not about controlling people. This established right was originally liberty (Classical liberalism). Socialism, the mainstream form of leftism, was born from this thinking, emphasizing equality rather than liberty, but both treat this as something all humans deserve.

Meanwhile,the right was about preserving tradition. This tradition, in the American sense, means muh freedoms due to the values of the Founding Fathers. Thus, the American right is considered left wing in some places in Europe. That's how you get people like >>2742683, who think the left is about control and the right is about individuality.

File: 1463280612055.png (1MB, 1261x2661px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1261x2661px

>>2742852
>tfw you're so Catholic, even the Church is less catholic than you

File: 1351446402107.jpg (19KB, 423x480px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 423x480px

>>2742852
>even nazi were Catholics.

Ultimately it's about the dispersion and concentration of power. Does your power belong to you, your family, your tribe, or everyone?

File: 11123900_674772935968324_283906920_n.jpg (42KB, 612x612px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 612x612px

>>2742731
>your political ideology can be determined by your genes, most conservatives come from conservative parents
>conservatism is hereditary

File: 34534768657.jpg (94KB, 800x591px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 800x591px

>>2742646
It is a false dichotomy meant to describe a multidimensional nexus of ever-changing attitudes in the hearts of human beings.

It is a shit model and I think we can do better...

I'm adding one more axis.

File: BLM.jpg (52KB, 624x351px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 624x351px

>>2742695
> Foundation of reality:
> Left = matter
> Right = spirt

No, the mentality of Left is rooted in fantasy and their instance that their way is the right way… just because!

> LEFTY: "Guns are bad!"
> RIGHTY: "Here's mountains of evidence that shows that's not true."
> LEFTY: "Fuck you, you're a racist and guns are still bad!"

>>2743089
The leftists you described are the ones who went hard far left. They don't represent original leftism nor do they uphold it. They're the reason many actual leftists steered right since according to the modern "left", anyone even slightly center-left is a Nazi.

>>2743089
I don't believe in gun control but if anything it's the american right wich tends to be the less rational on that one with the whole MUH CONSTITUTION thing tbqh.

>>2742947
>I believe that leftism was always about a established right that all humans were entitled to, and not about controlling people.

What absolute bullshit.

File: Smug Tea.png (410KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

410KB, 600x620px

>>2743089
>> RIGHTY: "Holocaust doesn't happened!"
>> LEFTY: "Here's mountains of evidence that shows that's not true."
>> RIGHTY: "Fuck you, you're a jew and holocaust will happen again!"

>>2743183
Explain then

>>2742683
Epic meme.

>>2742646
Leftwingers are in the cave, staring at shadows. Rightwingers have left the cave and seen the light.

>>2742646
Populism vs Elitism.

>>2742683
>All totalitarian, dictatorship, fascist, etc. forms of government are of the left. All of them. Communism, Nazism, Fascism, all of them

It's so easy to spot the American.

>>2743344
Both present on both sides of the spectrum

File: 02f.jpg (34KB, 655x527px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 655x527px

>>2742646
leftwingers love mommy more

rightwingers love daddy more

>>2742646
Left = equality
Right = inequality

That's all it is and all it has ever been

File: Horse Shoe.jpg (128KB, 700x511px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 700x511px

Left or right? It's all just a game
Two wings of the same bird of prey

File: 1484878752073.jpg (178KB, 1613x1919px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 1613x1919px

Leftists view hierarchies of power as inherently prejudiced and oppressive so they seek to either overthrow or re-engineer those structures.

Right wingers view hierarchies of power as innately useful, vivifying or at the very least unavoidable and so seek to work within those systems to better humanity.

Both groups are well intentioned .

File: Communist_World_United.jpg (21KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 500x375px

>>2743089
>leftists hate guns

Retard

>>2743403
I don't think most hard rightists are well-intentioned. They just want to hurt people to make themselves feel better.

File: berkeley milo.jpg (87KB, 750x500px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 750x500px

>>2743410
Well I don't think you should define a group by its extremists. I could say the same thing about hard leftists really.

>>2743354
Indeed. Being free and not jealous of the rest of the world allows clear thinking and proper judgments.

>>2743227
>>2742683

>>2743410
Antifa is hard left, and are going out looking to hurt people and shut them up.

>>2742646
The people themselves?
Liberals are open-minded, irresponsible, creative, non-conforming narcissists.
Conservatives are pragmatic, fearful, traditional, simple-minded thugs.

File: 1457831030556.png (167KB, 318x308px) Image search: [Google]

167KB, 318x308px

>>2743436
>Americans
>free

File: Imagine_a_world_without_porkies.gif (165KB, 580x2450px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 580x2450px

>>2743410
I guess.

>>2743410
>well-intentioned
how do you define this? do you call someone "well-intentioned" when they have intentions you agree with or when they have intentions they themselves regard as moral and good?

File: communismsdf-14-638.jpg (117KB, 638x479px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 638x479px

>>2743445
> not on the picture
> the billions deaths caused by capitalism

>>2743189
>quoting someone who gave an example of a real life issue and turning it into a mention of the Holocaust
I wonder who is behind this post

Would you rather be an asshole or an idiot?

>>2743478
Both.

>>2743480
Drumf?

>>2743380
Roughly this plus conservative/progressive.

But the dichotomy is only useful for describing consistent political scenes, there is no reason to talk about "global right" or "global left".

>>2743485
What?

>>2743473
Well, rights also deny global warming, the very real issue.

>>2743491
Holy fucking shit I hope this is being posted ironically.

>>2743495
Stop posting here, Donald, and get back to work! Shnell!

>>2743480

I have to admit I haven't seen that answer before.

Let's say you had to choose one.

>>2742947
>the American right is considered left wing in some places in Europe
the other way around lol

maybe in russia

>>2743510
Panicking about a possible, and I mean possible, 0.3 degree uptick in the next century.

Holy fuck do you have nothing on your plate.

File: 1423860363200.png (24KB, 157x200px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 157x200px

>>2743511
>implying any of us really have choices in anything ever

>>2743458
>WW1
>WW2
>Rwanda
>Capitalism

Native American Genocide, as your image says, killed 100 million in 400 years. Communism killed more than that in less than a century.

Slavery existed even before capitalism was a concept. So did imperialism and famines (man-made or not). And capitalism is responsible for decreasing world hunger. I'll give you the sex trafficking and poor shelters tho.

You also are ignore the fact that all of the above happened in communist countries.

File: CarbonHistory.png (12KB, 476x303px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 476x303px

>>2743537
Oh sorry, I didn't realized that acidification of oceans or dying phytoplankton are somehting to worry about.

You must be quite educated on the subject.

>>2742646
Left is war to intervene in other countries to help them
Right is war to help the home country

>>2743564
Plant food.

Making the oceans acidic.

Holy shit you flunked out of the fifth grade, didn't you.

>>2742646
Right defacto socialism that does work
Left dejure socialism that doesn't work

>>2743591
Anon...were you a victim of American educational system?

>>2743550
> Famine kills people under Stalin
> COMMUNISM KILLED BILLIONS
> Famine kill people in Britain India
> natural disasters existed from the beginnings of history, etc.

>>2742939
Jordan Peterson is not a serious political philosopher.

>>2743405
They're obviously only familiar with the American """""left"""""".

>>2743606
Famines happened in communist societies precisely because of their policies. The famines in India can be blamed on corruption, inadequate agricultural practices, natural disasters and war. None of which are exclusively present in capitalism.

>>2743441
They believe what they're doing is necessary defense against aggression. They don't consider violence against anyone to be an innately moral or ethical act, but rather that it is a necessary act to prevent greater harm occurring to others. It's basically the same mentality that militaries and police use to justify the use of deadly force, antifa just have a "different" set of criteria for judging whether something is a threat.

>>2743410
I don't think most hard leftists are well-intentioned. They just want to hurt people to make themselves feel better.

left mentality: it isn't broken but lets try to fix it and make it better for everyone

right mentality: if it ain't broke don't try to fix it, you'll probably just make it worse for everyone

>>2743458
>ww2
>capitalism
>most casualties occured in the fighting between two socialist countries
>capitalism

>>2743666
Bad definion. "Being broken/not broken" is relative to both left and right.

>>2742646
Right wing = seeks hierarchy/inequality
Left wing = seeks equality

Equality is usually in terms of outcome, not treatment.

>>2743681
I don't see how that makes the definition bad. just interpret the definition to mean what they consider broke

>>2743677
> State capitalism vs State capitalism
> fighting between two socialist countries

>>2742683
>There are two types of people in the world

and then I stopped reading because I realized I was giving attention to a retard

>>2743434
Not really. Antifa groups exist to deny a platform to racists. It's all about protecting vulnerable groups from a perceived genocidal threat.

>>2743595
I like this.

>>2743380
Left and right spectrum has become so twisted this is no longer true. It used to mean personal liberty, then it came to mean economical policy, now it means both at the same time without realizing they are mutually exclusive.

>>2743688
>Just interpret the definition to mean what they consider broke.
What each side considers broke is an important defining factor on itself. Consider the 90s in Eastern Europe, your definition would turn communists into right-wingers.

>>2743723
>Consider the 90s in Eastern Europe, your definition would turn communists into right-wingers.
How so?

>>2743705

To deny a platform to white people*

You really think that populations you're "protecting" aren't also the same political and tribal apes you see the right as?

You don't think that they'll backstab you and rape your wife when they get into power? You think mankind lives according to the vision of a city on the hill?

>>2743735
>fascists are white people
>thinking minorities are ever able to get into power

>>2743735
Seconded. I've never seen a reasonable comeback to this argument.

>>2743735
Most leftists don't believe that the average human is inherently evil.

File: 15 percent white.png (336KB, 1079x705px) Image search: [Google]

336KB, 1079x705px

>>2743741
He didn't say that fascists are white people. He said that anyone can be a racist, and didn't mention facism at all.

Minorities can turn into majorities, it happened before in Lebanon and other previously Christian countries that are now predominantly islamic.
Pic related shows another example where white people used to be a majority but will be a minority soon enough.

>>2743698
>it's a "my specific form of socialism hasn't been tested" episode
Come the fuck on, bratan

>>2743762
blacks are still culturally white and this is all that matters

>>2743732
>right mentality: if it ain't broke don't try to fix it, you'll probably just make it worse for everyone

>>2743762
>He didn't say that fascists are white people. He said that anyone can be a racist, and didn't mention facism at all.
What do you think antifa means?

>Minorities can turn into majorities, it happened before in Lebanon and other previously Christian countries that are now predominantly islamic.
Those countries always had a muslim majority.

>>2743768
That doesn't even relate to your former post which already didn't relate to the post you originally replied to. Fuck you.

>>2743772
you're not really explaining anything. I know that you already said that they'd be right according to that definition and me asking how should tell you that I don't see how that definition applies to them. so idk why you thought posting the definition again would make me understand what you're saying

>>2743735
Antifa are mostly white, you're retarded. They don't protest events by every white person, just far right types like Spencer and Milo. I'm sure you can find speeches by right wing minorities that they also have protested.

>>2743787
>>He didn't say that fascists are white people. He said that anyone can be a racist, and didn't mention facism at all.
>What do you think antifa means?
What I consider antifa doesn't matter here. The one you originally replied to didn't say that fascists are white people either say. The post is still there, go read it.

>>Minorities can turn into majorities, it happened before in Lebanon and other previously Christian countries that are now predominantly islamic.
>Those countries always had a muslim majority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_Middle_East#History
Also you ignored white people becoming a minority in California. The point that minorities can become majorities remains.

My points still stand no matter how much you want to derail the discussion or shift the goalposts.

>>2743805
You didn't debate the following:
>You really think that populations you're "protecting" aren't also the same political and tribal apes you see the right as?

>You don't think that they'll backstab you and rape your wife when they get into power? You think mankind lives according to the vision of a city on the hill?

>>2743792
>I don't see how that definition applies to them
How come? These people didn't wanted to fix what's not broken (according to them). Which would, according to your definition mean that they are right wingers.

Are communists right-wingers?

>>2743822
By your logic, why should anyone ever try to defeat their enemies? You're basically saying "well if you win, you'll just turn on each other, so what's the point of anything?".

>>2742683
>Fascism and Nazism are leftist ideologies
lolwut

>>2743823
oh I see what you're saying. I think in that case they would be right wingers since the system they advocated was in place. so they wanted to preserve what they advocated and didn't consider it broken.

>Are communists right-wingers?
I think they are once they are within a system they consider to be in line with what they consider communism and don't want it changed

>>2743814
He's equating fascists/racists with whites by the "deny a platform" sentence.

>Also you ignored white people becoming a minority in California. The point that minorities can become majorities remains.
Read your link, Lebanon before the civil war was half muslim. It took time for California to reach that. Europe isn't literlly importing millions at a time as it will take forever to happen.

>>2743844
No, most Communists are Authoritarian left-wingers.

>>2743853
If most communists don't live within a system they consider to be communist then I agree with you.

>>2743021
What do you think?

>>2743850
>He's equating fascists/racists with whites by the "deny a platform" sentence.
No, what he says is that antifa equate white people with fascists/racists.

Have a better link here.
http://www.al-bushra.org/holyland/chapter2b.htm
>The following period in Palestine is marked by the rise of an Arabic Islamic majority. By the same process the Christian majority, at its height at the end of the Byzantine reign, dwindled slowly to become a modest minority.
It's about Palestina instead of Lebanon but quite literally confirms what I said before
>Minorities can turn into majorities

Right-wing: Insecure man-babies and women-babies that want to feel safe and apart of a collective that values trying to flaunt your dick-size over logical thinking.

Left-wing: Arrogant cunts that are technically more logical on most issues, but are also ultra-sensitive pussies on some things.

Bam, done.

>>2742683
There are far more than two types of people in the world, but it's true that there are a lot of folk who are either very controlling of their surroundings or introverted and independent-minded. Villagers and Homesteaders.

What's inaccurate is that either kind of person are inherently left or right in their politics. You have plenty of left wingers who want to be left alone, and plenty of right wingers who want to control their communities. It just happens from time to time that American big-tent politics sees a coalition of one or the other come to dominate the party's rhetoric, which invariably reflects on the opposing party and their rhetoric.

>>2743822
No, I don't think a bunch of humanistic suburban kids will suddenly start raping people if they take power.

Antifa are just humanities majors who read a lot of Kropotkin and Bookchin and think they can make the world a better place by fighting hateful people. Most of them wish they were shooting Islamists in Syria or fascists in 1930s Germany but have to contend themselves with punching white nationalist manlets on their university campus.

>>2742646
>What is the FUNDAMENTAL difference between the left and the right wingers?
The people around them are either left or right wing, and they are either interested in entering their surrounding social circles or wish to rebel against them and join others.

It was never fundamentally about political ideology anymore than communities professing Protestant or Catholic forms of Christianity was about the fine intricacies of theology, or whether you were part of the Blue or Green Deme because people honestly cared which was the better chariot racing team.

>>2743934
'the people antifa are "protecting"' refers e.g. to arab muslims in Europe etc.

Now re-read and try again.

>>2742646
Put very simply, "Right wingers" support keeping society as it is, and "Left Wingers" seek to change society. Their more extremist forms are Reactionary and Progressive thinking, with Reactionaries trying to enforce a perceived ideal yesterday and progressives pushing for an equally imaginary ideal, egalitarian tomorrow.

Beyond that, it's difficult to put out a broad definition, as the history of a country dictate what the goals of its political wings, particularly for Conservatives. An American conservative wants a return to states rights and a more original interpretation of the constitution, which ironically would make them fairly liberal by the standards of when the constitution was written.

>>2743943
I genuinely care about not letting an endless amount of unskilled Arabs and their extended families into my country who will be entitled to welfare which will be paid for through taxes.
I genuinely care about the concept that the money I earn belongs to me, not to illegal immigrants.
That's not about rebelling.

Left/Right dichotomy only works if you keep it to economics, with property/capitalism being on the right, and communism on the left.

Once you introduce social issues it gets too complicated for one linear scale.

File: evola.2jpg.jpg (22KB, 363x501px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 363x501px

>>2743841
They are, revolutionary scum

>>2743974
You cared about these things (and in that specific way with a specific set of solutions) after you came across a community that would accept you as one of their own for expressing these things. Unless you are also the person who first came up with these ideological talking points.

>>2743956
>Put very stupidly,

>>2743980
Left/right honestly works better for social issues. If your grandfather would find it respectable, it's right. If it's justified with a vague buzzword like "progress" it's left

>>2744008
Yeah, but what if 100 years ago what grandpa finds respectable was the "progress" at the time? That definition makes the spectrum time dependent.

>>2744017
Smart guy

>>2743974
I genuinely care to tell you that you are a racist faggot.
It's not to be rebellious.

>>2744017
It is relative, that's the whole point. In the early 19th century, nationalism was a leftist idea, since it was progress compared to the idea of borders being decided by the dealings of royal families. But now it's a right-wing idea, since "progress" has moved beyond the idea of ethnostates and is now defined by the elimination of borders.

>>2743995
>it's impossible for people to independently come to the same conclusion
Probably you will also say that I believe the CDF of the standard normal distribution is symmetric at 0 only because the community of text book authors will accept me as one of their own for expressing this believe, not because it is defined this way and claiming anything else would be false by definition.

>>2744029
He's conservative at worst. He wants his culture in his country. That's not racist.

>>2744017
The spectrum is time dependent. Even a progressive fifty years ago would be viewed as a conservative today

>>2744038
>his culture
Racist.

>>2743995
Stupidest shit I've read all day

>>2744029
Even by the standards of modern progressives, you are pretty brain-dead.

Unless you're just baiting, in which case well done

>>2744039
This is the concurrent most retarded post on this board at this moment. Congrats

>>2744029
I genuinely care to tell you that not wanting to give all my money + my anus and my first born to illegal immigrants doesn't make me racist.

>>2744064
Disprove it then

>>2744034
I didn't say it was impossible. But you don't go around waving a flag or going to rallies for something dry and technical, and you wouldn't concern yourself over the machinations of heretics who believe in asymmetry at 0 in your daily life.

You are your own independent person, but you didn't come to the same conclusions using the same rhetoric and agitating for the same politics as millions of other people because you encountered the people and information sources in a neutral bubble.

>>2744064
Excellent contribution

>>2744068
The whole way in which you phrased this post highlights what a racist you are.

>>2744068
>give all my money
What country has a 100% tax rate on the lowest tax bracket AND uses tax money to fund ONLY those government programs that exclusively benefit illegal immigrants?

>my anus
The only way illegal immigrants can gain possession of ``your anus" without your consent is if they take it from you by force. Which is already illegal; law enforcement systems exist to physically stop such attempts at illegal siezure, and the courts will ensure those guilty are punished, and will likely consider use of violence against your attackers justified as self-defense.

>and my first born
Not going to happen unless you give them up for adoption, or are such a horrendously bad parent that the government considers depriving you of your children to be necessary for their well-being.

Sounds to me like you're just making up nonsensical emotional arguments due to some sort of pathological fear of losing your property.

>>2744071
WTF. The first paragraph is incomprehensible and the 2nd is subjective.

Do you even logic

>>2742646

The right accept, and embrace inequality. The left autistically can not accept this.

There that is it ultimately.

>>2744126
What you call autism, I call having something to believe in.

>>2744071
>you wouldn't concern yourself over the machinations of heretics who believe in asymmetry at 0 in your daily life.
And you know why? Because it doesn't affect me but raising taxes affects me because I literally lose money when that happens. So expressing my dissatisfaction with politics which I know in advance will cause taxes to rise makes sense.

>>2744075
I'm sorry for being deluded, your rational argumentation changed my mind.
Illegal immgirants, here is my money, I'm glad to be entitled to go to work the whole day to serve your needs. I apologize to you that I was so foolish to think that the money I earn belongs to me.

>>2744113
>What country has a 42% tax rate at 54,000 Euro + mandatory social security insurance payments AND uses 4% tax money to fund ONLY those government programs that exclusively benefit illegal immigrants posing as refugees?
Germany

>>2744131

Believing in something not being real does not make it true.

[spoiler]hmm[/spoiler]

>>2743656
>smashing people's faces in unprovoked is defending yourself
Please think about what you've just posted.

Originally
Left
>revolution, change, anti-establishment

Right
>reaction, protection of the status quo, pro-establishment

But that obviously went to hell as early as the 1930s, because normal, thinking people consider Hitler (and Trump btw) as a right-winger, even though he opposed the old order.

File: 1493596278298.png (2MB, 996x1190px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 996x1190px

>>2744168
>Trump = Hitler
Good point

>>2743943
A lot of it is this, though there's some personal aesthetics involved for a lot of people too. For the most part this isn't why someone is necessarily right/left wing so much as why they're politically active or not, and why they're politically radical or establishment based.

>>2744180
Lmao, bitch, don't you think they both were elected on an anti-establishment platform, which is what I was refering to?

You literally got triggered

>>2744126
>you want the world to be less horrifying? fuck you lol

>>2744143
So then at most 51.68% of your money is going to illegal immigrants, and that's assuming that
1) ALL of your income after taxation is taken by mandatory social security payments
2) 50% of social security payments go to illegal immigrants

>>2744161
That's why I said they have a "different" set of criteria for deciding what is and isn't a threat.

>>2743089

you think democrats are Left. you think BLM marchers are necessarily leftists. you do not understand the term very well.

>>2744168
What? Fascism was all about reclaiming the old order, in rescuing the German ideal from a perceived Jewish threat and defending capital from the huge German communist movement.

That house looks comfy as fuck, OP.

File: KlgYpaC.gif (878KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

878KB, 500x281px

>>2743405
>tfw you will never be allowed by your government to physically remove thousands of communists from your country.

>>2744180
whew that .png I feel like if I ever met someone with all these books in their library I would have to cut off contact right there and then.

then again I doubt people who read things like these can afford to have a library.

>>2744214
Yeah +50% is basically nothing, a few percent points more mandatory deduction isn't going to hurt anyone right? I mean, these illiterate people that have no technical skills and have a track record of not being interested in integration (unlike Poles or Vietnamese) are more valuable than gold and basically human presents we are receiving.
You want to point out that I was exaggerating, yes, you are allowed to change "give all my money to illegal immigrants" to "give half my money to illegal immigrants".
You seem to think it isn't wrong to force me to even give 0.00000001% of MY money to ----->ILLEGALS<-----.

>>2744222
If fascism was about reclaiming the old order, why didn't they offer Willy III a crown?

>>2744267
>Yeah +50% is basically nothing, a few percent points more mandatory deduction isn't going to hurt anyone right?
That 50% was an absolute maximum, based on ridiculous assumptions. And it's still nowhere near the "all of my money" nonsense that was being talked about earlier.

>You seem to think it isn't wrong to force me to even give 0.00000001% of MY money to ----->ILLEGALS<-----.
Let's say you make $1 billion a year (another ridiculous assumption, just to show how absurd your argument is). 0.00000001% of that is literally 10 cents a year. That's such an insignificant fraction that it's not even worth walking across the room for. It might be "wrong" in some abstract sense, but realistically, no one would think it worth the trouble to complain about it. You wouldn't even notice it unless you expended way more than 10 cents worth of energy to analyze your finances.

>>2744287

... Which means it's the idea that angers you, >>2744267 , rather than the actual material components, so you're not necessarily a racist, but you're definitely a pedant.

right = social dominance
left = fear of socal rejection

>>2744296
You're damn right that it's the idea that angers me (and many other people). It's basically slavery and a public humiliation of both my personal and my national pride to be forced to give foreign males the money I earn.
How would you feel if all of a sudden your government decides to seize your money so that some 20-25 year old guys that entered your country illegally can live a first world life without having to work?

>>2744284
Simply because the Nazis didn't want to share their power with people who might have different goals. The Nazis made some overtures toward monarchism prior to their seizure of power, particularly in Bavaria, but then decided that reinstating a monarch could limit their own influence over German society.

>>2744364

If you're going to have real thoughts on this, stop being a pussy and think them all the way through. If taxation is slavery which is essentially your implication here, it has nothing to do with immigrants and they're certainly not enslaving you if it's so easy to sit back and get juicy benefits. Your money lines rich men's pockets, greases criminals' palms, and rather than focus on any of that you want to act like this is the biggest problem facing you. Besides all of this, where are you referring to where illegal immigration is a big problem but they also get such cushy social benefits? It's like you're thinking of some hypothetical Germany where Mexicans are crossing the border illegally. If you decide to think about these things in terms of the structural causes we're all willing to talk about it, but this cherrypicking bullshit is incredibly transparent.

>>2744002
>dude there's one fixed definition that can be applied universally!

>>2744208
>more egalitarian = less horrifying
Didn't you have to read Harrison Bergeron in Middle School?

>>2743987
>Immediately assumes I'm a communist

Well, since you don't seem to know shit, here's the run-down.

Communism = Far-left, usually Authoritarian

Fascism = Far-right, Authoritarian

Nazism = Far-right, Authoritarian

There.

>>2744364
Not him but, I wouldn't mind if they adopted the culture.

>>2744364
Your taxes pay for the quality of your life you get with the country you live in. If you aren't happy you could move to a place like Dubai or something :)

>>2744560
Okay find me 5 other people who think like you and I will move, will also adopt the culture.
You can consider the search as paying me in services.

>>2744573
What I just said is mainstream in Europe.

>>2744547
>revolutionary = communist
>others don't know shit

Revolutionary means French revolution, dumbie. Anying farther to the left of Aristocratic Monarchies is leftist. Learn your meme philosophy.

>>2744418
I focus on my money "lining rich men's pockets". That's why I want to build wealth and stop being a wage cuck. You know what would prevent me from saving some of the money I'm saving atm? Rising taxes and my money being forcefully seized and given to foreign males so that I can't put it into my own bank account.
Also ILLEGAL immgirants are criminals. That's what illegal crossing a border means - that your mere presence is a continuous crime.

>>2744566
>Your taxes pay for the quality of your life you get with the country you live in
That's wrong. I'm forced to pay, otherwise I would cancel services such as free health insurance, free housing, free food + a monthly allowance for everyone who shows up at the border and shouts "asylum". And the majority of things the taxes are used for doesn't improve the quality of life in this country. But don't worry, I will eventually leave Germany for a country that doesn't rob its citizens. Dubai isn't a candidate :) :) :)))))

>>2744672

Good luck saving your way into being so rich the government helps you out. Unfortunately given how well you articulated your ideas on the subject here, I kind of have the feeling you're just going to end up a bitter middle-class dipshit though.

File: kushner090720_1_250.jpg (18KB, 250x333px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 250x333px

>>2744672
>inconvenienced millionaire; the post

The more tax cuts the rich get, the more the middle class (i.e. you) have to shoulder. If you feel robbed by the government, perhaps you should look upwards at who's ordering them to rob you, instead of looking downwards like a good little Goyim.

>>2742778

i dunno i want some of those lefty attributes and it's kind of pissing me off

>science and evolution
>left
>creativity is rightwing

bull
shit

>>2742646
Liberals score high in openness to ideas and experiences and low on diligence; conservatives are more closed to ideas and dutiful about tasks. Both are needed for a classically liberal society to function
https://youtu.be/e0Nb5bO1R1Y

>>2744604
Noted. lol

>>2744547

just cuz you said it doesn't make it true, bub
fascism and nazism are not the same thing

nazis were quasi-socialists who developed a government car and called it "the people's wagon"

>>2744672
>Your taxes pay for the quality of your life you get with the country you live in
You not only pay for health insurance and the rest, but a stable currency, protection of the law, maintenance of roads, buildings, safety standards, guaranteed food and water, non hazardous substances, and the potential to achieve anything.

you people are fucking tards. theres only 'conservatives' and 'everyone else'. 'left' and 'right' are just arbitrary abbreviated designations for the parts of this dichotomy because its simple and concise in english. this relationship exists in literally every culture ever. at one point pagans were conversatives trying to figure wtf to with christians in ancient rome, catholics were conversatives trying to hold on to protestants etc

>>2743591
Not that guy, but I hope to fucking God you were drinking a soda when you typed that post. Partisans like you really are the foulest scum wherever they fester on the spectrum. The universe does not give a SHIT about your politics, and never will.

>>2744797
oh and to answer your specific question. conversatives tend stick to 'whats been proven to work' and hold out until the bitter end to see if a new idea is going to provide something 'better' or if its even functional at all at the cost of delaying potential incomes from a potential superior way of doing things. the 'everyone else' usually percieve themselves as being absolute right and treated unfairly that they cant implement their ideas and usually end up using extreme measures to force their idea to bypass the established way of doing things

File: pODace2.jpg (628KB, 1856x887px) Image search: [Google]

628KB, 1856x887px

They all are just mere shadows of the REAL political spectrum.

>>2744697
I didn't say the government will help me out. All I want is the government to leave me the fuck alone as much as reasonably possible instead of robbing half my money. Thankfully there are high income countries that were capable of implementing this unimaginably difficult concept.

About middle class, I don't care what you think. My parents were literally the poorest people in the small bumfuck nowhere town I grew up in even before they divorced, I survived on 20 Euro a week to buy food, school books and clothes while other kids got iPhones and went on trips and vacations. But today on my current income and expenses I will retire earlier than my scumbag father.
And now there are you thinking you can insult me by telling me I will be middle class.

>>2744785
>le infrastrucutre meme
About 2 percent of all taxes raised in Germany go towards maintaining and improving the infrastructure, less than 3 percent go towards education and less than 2 percent towards the military.
Meanwhile about 50 percent are spent on different kinds of socialist welfare maymays and another 15 percent on interest (debt)

>>2744959
The UK, my home country, has a handy infograph of the % of tax spending. It details everything and its more intricate than what you said.

I think the whole tax spending is more detailed than you think it is. Shits expensive, yo.

Can one be a fiscal liberal, but social conservative?

>yes, they're called Nazis

>>2742646
Left = collectivism
Right = individualism

>>2742683
I want to be left alone, but "right wing" political parties keeping shitting on the environment, which I care about.

What am I?

> inb4 pussy, reddit, or libtard

>>2742683
i am a "leftist" and i want to be left the fuck alone.

>>2745227

So nationalists are left?

>>2745259
Nationalism isnt tied to the left or right even if retards keep insisting it is.

>>2742695
I remember this chart, I can't belive you bother reposing it after you got BTFO of example after example where someone on the right can have the majority of the left attributes, and vice versa.

>>2744466
It's not about creating equality of outcome you dumb fucking shit.

Our society should offer equal opportunities to all people. As long as capitalism and industrial dynasties exist, there is no equality of opportunity.

>>2742683
>it was the leftists who supported the bourbon monarchy

libertarianism is the most retarded ideology

>>2745114
By fiscal liberal, you probably mean fiscally leftward? Fiscally liberal generally means more unbridled capitalism.

Lots of movements have been socially conservative or reactionary and also fiscally left-wing. Look at the populist movement in 19th century America, the Arab nationalist regimes of the Cold War era, or even the socialist governments led by Stalin and Fidel Castro which promoted traditional family structure and restricted the rights of gay people. Nazi Germany is something of a red herring, because they actually dissembled the strong social democratic state established under the Weimar government. The word "privatization" was actually coined to describe Nazi policies!

Personally though, I think it's a little weird to desire emancipation on certain channels (money) but seek to uphold hierarchies elsewhere. Especially because economic inequality has historically been tightly connected to sexism and racism! It was historically very, very important to keep women and black people poor.

>>2744068
>>2744113
kek, destroyed

The general trend I seem to notice, is that the Left is lead mostly by people who feel, rather than think.

They have good intentions, but god damn they don't spend any time researching or learning about the real world. Whether it's economics or politics, they get consistently destroyed because they literally don't know what they're talking about. They get all their information from other leftists and don't bother checking the legitimacy of it. It just 'feels' right. This is why shit like the wage gap myth is still perpetuated.

>ITT: All these right wingers revealing their pure ideology
Fundamentally a leftist is willing to change shit for better or for worse while right wingers will rather not do that. Regardless of vested interest in keeping status quo

>>2745522
The way i see it, anyone who doesn't believe in what i believe is simply misinformed, and only if those silly people would come to the all encompassing light of my ideas, the world would be a better place, the others might have good intentions, but i am simply correct and they are wrong.

File: hqdefault.jpg (24KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 480x360px

>being fooled so easily

>>2744782
I didn't say they were the exact same thing, I said they were both authoritarian and far-right. Now that's true, bub.

>>2743882
It is a damn shame that there isn't more people like you

>>2745549
your definitions make hitler and the nazi party left wingers

File: 1490942171760.gif (1MB, 279x219px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 279x219px

>unironically believing in the Left/Right dichotomy

Get out, all of you.

>>2745635
can you write out all of your most informative reasons why the left/right dichotomy is not based on anything real. I'd like to see if you actually put some thought into this

>>2745631
Pre-Night of the Long Knives or post? Hitler didn't really change much of the status quo but entrenched the power of the elites.

File: 0lBXFeW.png (108KB, 400x381px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 400x381px

>>2745660
>Hitler didn't really change much of the status quo

>>2742683
>everybody taking the bait this hard

>>2745669
>ywn see Stasser rekting capitalist's shit up
The power structure and relationships never changed in Nazi Germany. Sure you can count Jews as a change from status quo, but they were always looked down anyway and circumstances just made it worse

>>2745640
It's meaningless because there's no objective criteria for determining if something is "Left" or "Right".
These things have changed every decade and vary widely from country to country, or even within the same country.
There's little similarity between the "Right" of 1850, that of 1920 and that of 2010, in the case of particular country.
It literally boils down to
>this major political current is different from the other major political current that just happens to exist in a certain country at a certain time.

If someone calls himself a "left/right"wing person it simply mean that he's different from the "others", not that he adheres to some sort of metaphysical principle that transcends time and space.

Depends on which shoe you tie first

>>2744547
hmm no.

>>2744850
you may have posted this as a joke but it is actually true

File: 1485833153611.jpg (2MB, 3840x2160px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3840x2160px

>>2742646
Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform, and internationalism," while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism."

Political scientists and other analysts regard the Left as including anarchists, communists, socialists and social democrats, left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals. Movements for racial equality are also usually linked with left-wing organizations. Trade unionism is also associated with the left.

Political scientists and other analysts regard the Right as including Christian democrats, classical liberals, conservatives, right-libertarians, neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists, fascists, reactionaries, and traditionalists.

>Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics#Ideological_groupings_across_the_spectrum

>>2742646
>What is the FUNDAMENTAL difference between the left and the right wingers?

Right - I fetishise freedom above all.
Left - I fetishise justice above all.
Radical extreme centrism - I do what works, for as long as it works.

Deny ideology, join the revolutionary center today.

>>2742695
If this chart were true, then the "right" is scientifically proven to be wrong.

>>2745995
>Political scientists and other analysts regard the Right as including Christian democrats

You mean the people who rule Germany for a decade?
They don't fit the notions you outlined in the first paragraph, and lean towards the ideas you mentioned there

Generally speaking, left-wingers perceive that there are rights not provided for and the state is the only power capable of rectifying this. They may see a state as corrupt and undermine it for a new one that they sutand give power to. Right-wingers range from conservative to reactionary. Conservatives like the current political and socio-economic situation and try to prevent changes. Reactionaries believe that the current government has taken a turn for the worst and support the repeal of liberal policies. I tried to be as unbiased as possible and drew from Victoria II for inspiration.

>>2742646

There are none.

"Left-wing" and "right-wing" are just the names we call the two major sides in any modern political system. They could literally mean anything,

File: 1473117791670.jpg (66KB, 464x580px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 464x580px

>>2743436
>America
>not jealous of the rest of the world
Whatever you keep telling yourself, Billie Boy Jimbob.

Honestly I think the main difference is that leftists want to create a world that non-hierarchical and fair, but right-wing people don't mind hierarchies as long as they can be justified, such as military or capitalism(which they perceive as being meritorious).

That said, whatever definition one uses, it's going to be simplistic and will rarely grasp all the nuances.

>>2742683
>le you are just baiting xD argument against this post
This is the most accurate way to see the basic individual condition on a post-industrial government.

We see the same pattern on South-American countries which have abandoned the left because most know what is that all about.

People on Spain think that socialdemocracy is still valid today. They will doom themselves when the "centre"-left gets elected. The same meme about the best countries on the world, being leftist, is outdated and inaccurate. They benefit from other resources outside the same recycling of profit inside the country, and high taxes.

>lol american detected
It's true that the right-left characterization is based on past ideologies, nevertheless all leftist movements tend to control the means of production or the profits of itself, stagnating the system's evolution and the competence against other countries. The new face of socialism is socialdemocracy, today. However, it's purpose doesn't aim to control them, but to indirectly lead it and keep the same status quo that will infect society's economy and thus, by the same marxist logic, the individual's "soul".

>literally all the replies are duplicates of this one >>2743354

Now I realize you don't know shit about economy. Good grief.

>>2742646
>the FUNDAMENTAL difference
On which side of the chairman/speaker you sit

>>2742731
>political philosophy is genetically hereditary
lyl

>>2743436
>free
>still believing this meme

>>2743875
>no one took this

Impressiv

>>2745436
Good post. Thank you.

>>2742646

The right is the justification of hierarchy, the left is the dismantling of hierarchy.

>>2743735
You sound scared, son.

>>2746447

In fairness it looks pretty solid, one can't really refute it.

>>2742646
left: intelligent
right: wise

left: theory
right: experience

left: masochistic
right: sadistic

left: to smart too post memes
right: dumb frog posters

Strengthen and adhere to existing structures versus the seeking of novel chaos.

>x:[ ]
>y:[ ]
Nice bait without arguments faggots.

>>2746258
>fair
What's more fair than justice and merit?
>non hierarchical
That doesn't even make sense. People tend to have hierarchies, if these people want to keep doing social experiments then, they should do it with their families.
>right wing people don't mind hierarchies
>I don't mind having to breath
Litearlly ebin.
>military or capitalism
That is not included on the right-wing ideology, faggot.

>it doesn't matter the definition
For brainlets.

>>2746800
>military*

>>2742646
Libertarian, conservative, left, right, are all terms created by the Jew to divide the American people. In reality, everyone should be focused on the welfare of humanity. The Jew does not want this.

>>2742695
>left
>individual

This shit is like trying to argue about alignment in dungeons and dragons

You cant sum up the whole of human ideology into a binary choice

>>2746258
Except leftists don't want to erase hierarchy, they want to replace it with equally artificial hierarchy that results in them on top

>>2747157
Where's the hierarchy in anarcho-communism?

You're projecting

>>2747186
>anarcho
Ebin.

>>2742646
Empathy.

>>2747186
No idea. I don't know how a herd of unicorn would be led either.

>>2747200
>hey, granny why didn't you punish your kid?
>is it that bad to have ((((empathy))))?
E b i n

>>2747203
By the horn obviously.

>>2743444

Eat a dick, barbarian. I don't know what shithole you hail from, but do you even have a constitution that guarantees your rights? How are your courts, can they be counted on to advance the cause of justice or are they nakedly in someone's pocket?

You bloody fools, in your eagerness to be fashionable and sneer at the United States, are tearing down the greatest bastion of western civilization that has ever existed, the one guarantor that, for all our many failings (and they are certainly many) has a culture that strives for the protection and empowerment of the people and has the great big fucking stick to beat the multitude of tyrannies and warmongers in the world into submission.

>>2742683
Such fucking bullshit. The right are the folks shooting people in the head because they happen to enjoy sucking dick.