Guise, serious question here. Could Andrew Jackson have

The guy had a really big heart. He was clearly disgusted by the fact that it was going on.

Not without a time machine, as he died in 1845, 16 years before the war. Also before the effects of the Mexican War, bleeding Kansas, etc.

>>2742061
How exactly? He prevented cessation of carolina but that was like 30 odd years before the civil war and im pretty sure he wasn't around anymore by then. What's with the civilwar shitposting today?

>>2742180
Donald Trump gave a weird semi-lucid interview where he ran off topic with some bizarre shit about how Andrew Jackson would have stopped the Civil War. Probably had a head full of coke.

>>2742189
Since President Trump has been doing alot of research into Andrew Jackson during his campaign (better than Obama who was too busy in the choom gang to research anyone beyond Malcolm X and mlk) Trump was probably just voicing his opinion. It's an interesting alternate history.

>>2742203
>Trump
>doing research

Good one. The only reason he gives to shits about Jackson is because he's a contrarian. Liberals don't like Jackson, therefore he does. The man's a retard.

>>2742218
>mom look! I'm a cuckold!

>>2742218
Do not speak about the President in this fashion.

>>2742225
>y-y-you're a cuck!

This is Trump's level of argument.

>>2742243
>librul anally devastated

>>2742061
I mean, if he had let South Carolina go, maybe. But that's a pretty speculative counterfactual.

>>2742218
>Successful billionaire who outplayed the media at every turn doesn't do his research
Trump is probably the most researched president we've had in a long time. Certainly more researched than affirmative action man, dubya and the saxophonist.

>>2742295

This has to be b8.

Well the civil war started because a sectarian party opposed to slavery was elected. Meanwhile Jackson was a slave owner who appealed to the North and South. He wouldn't have to stop a civil war because there wouldn't have been one brewing.

>>2742295
Having a good instinct for conning people isn't the same as being intelligent or doing research, buckaroo.
Plus Andrew Jackson had the best hair of any president. Trump, not so much.

Short answer yes.

Long answer? Yes he would have. Lincoln was a weak little cuck hated by the south and knowingly hand picked by the powers that be to incite a war that would allow the very enemy Jackson fought against to profit.

>>2742189
shut up libtard faggot

>>2742305
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poz6W0znOfk

>>2742319
Inb4 >b-but he won the war you stupid rebel!

I'm a northerner. Lincoln only won because he resorted to tyrannical practice to enforce his will like a true weak willed beta that needs force to get even those on his side to do his bidding.

>>2742295
>Successful billionaire

He inherited a real estate empire and substantially underperformed the market. It's also quite likely he's been in the red since 2007. And there has never been a president who knew less about the job upon taking office. His real talent is in getting a certain type of person to be impressed by him, but that's almost certainly not the result of "research," of which he famously and proudly does virtually none.

>>2742333
I'm not even an American and don't care about your elections but you sound like a college student that reads huffington post and than regurgurates this with a smug face to argue with your slightly racist uncle at dinner.

>>2742383
He is stating fact.

>>2742383
And you sound like my racist uncle. Honestly this /pol/ with dates and global rule 3 applies. I wish you people would just stay on /pol/ and leave /his/ alone.

>>2742333
And you came to this conclusion based on honest research of the past 40 years of the real estate market of course.

>>2742419

Not my own research, but it's pretty straightforward:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2016/03/03/has-donald-trump-underperformed-in-the-real-estate-business/#4491c5ba4bfd

Donald Trump is literally, objectively a below average businessman. And that includes all the money he's made playing the character of a good businessman in reality shows, the scam "university," etc.

>>2742487
>Billions of dollars worth of valuable properties all over the world
>below average businessman
Did you know you had to be over 15 to post here, lad?

>>2742487
>wealth tied up in real estate
>this means he did poorly

I don't think you understand what a real estate mogul actually is. The man's a genius whether you like it or not. If you could really "get lucky" and fall into the presidency by "being a dumb racist slob that bad mouths everyone and appeals to rural and suburban retards" then David Duke should've been president twice over already.

You may not like him, but he's both more intelligent and more capable than you are.

>>2742496
>>2742517

Seems like neither one of you read the article or understand what an investment is. Yes, he "did poorly" because his holdings jncreased in value less than market as a whole did. I
Essentially, he would be a lot richer now of he had been completely hands off with his inheritance. He is a poor businessman.

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>>2742295
When he doesn't know who Fredrick Douglass is or says zany shot about Jackson preventing the civil war, is say didn't do the research.

What I want to know is, what should the media be reporting on instead of this. Typically this is how he misdirected people, or his administration take advantage of it anyway.

>>2742565
>Fredrick Douglass
Literally who?

>>2742517
>wealth tied up in real estate
>>this means he did poorly

Who said that?

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>>2742295
The only clear financial success he's had that publicly known is that he sold himself to the media as a cheesy image of "success", and sold his name to developers accordingly.

The dude never read a history book in his life, I'll wager.

>>2742570
>Literally who?

This is how he makes ignorant nonsense work for him. He says something retarded, and lots of people make fun of him for it. But lots more people were just as ignorant, so when he gets made fun of it's like they're being made fun of too, which gets them on his side. Trump's base is people who resent being mocked for their ignorance.

>>2742616
>not knowing "literally who" is a sarcastic way to express a historical figures irrelevance
Reminds me of how William F. Buckley was shocked to learn more Americans knew who Harriet Tubman was than Joseph Stalin. And this was in the 60s. Douglass is a literally who because he's an insignificant mulatto in the grand scheme of things who might be important to you but certainly has no reason to be for many people. Including Trump.

I'd take a biography of Andrew Jackson over a biography on Douglass any day.

>>2742647
>I'd take a biography of Andrew Jackson over a biography on Douglass any day.

Ok, but the point is Donnie would never read either, or any other book, including his own. His statements about Jackson are just as dumb as his statements about everything else. What's not clear is how intentional that is.

>>2742402
You literally accuse me of being pol for making a pretty neutral statement of how full of self confidence while being actually superficial and regurgitated your arguments are. I would say the same thing to someone who uses similar arguments to support the other side. Usually original people post here, but you make this thread look like my facebook feed.

>>2742843
>he doesn't know my nobody figure
>he doesn't know important people in history
like he said, literally who? sorry but every affirmative action historical character isn't worth learning about. if you can learn about them then you can learn even more about other important events instead. time is limited and random people of color aren't the most important thing around just cause it helps the narrative. there's 2500+ years of history you can learn and random colored people aren't that important compared to all the other random minority people you can pick at any given time in history.

>>2742843
>Ok, but the point is Donnie would never read either, or any other book, including his own.
>"including his own"
Has leftypol reached delusions not thought possible?

>>2743115
Are you saying you think he actually wrote a book?

>>2743395
Of course he wrote it

>>2742565
>When he doesn't know who Fredrick Douglass is or says zany shot about Jackson preventing the civil war, is say didn't do the research.
literally fake news. the quote in that tweet gives know indication that he didn't know who he was. it's just more reaching my the left to make him look racist and dumb

>>2742295
>Trump is probably the most researched president we've had in a long time
He's literally said in interviews that he almost never reads. And that he's too busy for the books.

>>2742218

t. Banker

jackson probably would have preemptively struck down the southern elites and shipped the slaves to cuba or brazil.

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Remember that Merkel had to explain the basics of what the EU is to him 11 times before he understood and then forgot again

>>2744788
>Remember that Merkel had to explain the basics of what the EU is to him 11 times before he understood and then forgot again
source?

also what is idiotic about that picture?

>>2744788
I'm not gonna lie it's endearing that he did that. It's like a kid showing his parents the good grades he got in school.

>>2744792

>also what is idiotic about that picture?

Go to bed you have school in the morning

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>>2742061

Andrew Jackson initiated the chain of events that led to the Civil War so no.

>>2744906
can't support your claim so you insult the person who asked for support. you really showed them

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>>2744792

Really makes you think...

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-trade-merkel-germany-eu-2017-4

>>2744579
You are naive.

>>2744938
didn't know about that. guess it didn't matter that he didn't know that

>>2742100
yea, big heart and bigger balls

>>2742565
>Jackson preventing the civil war
Well Jackson would've prevented the civil war if his life/presidency hypothetically extended that far. South Carolina tried to secede during Jackson's presidency and he quickly told them they will get raped if they try it.

You can contrast this with Lincoln, who despite being framed by the Confedaracy as a total tyrant was actually a total cuck who was willing to negotiate on everything which gave the South a room to build up the means for seceding.

>>2742562
t. totally a billionaire businessman

The war was so deeply rooted into the foundations of 19th century US politics, culture, and economy it couldn't have been stopped by one man if not at all.

>>2744907
>quit the vice presidency because he was bored and wanted more shit to do in government
Man Calhoun would've been a fun president

>>2742225
>>2742250
>Calls him a cuck
>haha i anally devastated him

>>2745101
i thought he quiy over his dispute with jackson over the nullification crisis

>>2742328
>I'm a northerner.
Irrelevant

>Lincoln only won because he resorted to tyrannical practice to enforce his will like a true weak willed beta that needs force to get even those on his side to do his bidding.
As opposed to the South which was essentially photo-fascism during the war.

>>2744579
The Art of the Deal was written by Tony Schwartz

>>2745165
>photo-fascism
>photo
Kek. But really, it's weird how much states rights lolbertarians masturbate to the Confederacy considering how absurdly constricted and centralized it was

>>2742225
>>2742295
Though I rather enjoy both, I like my /pol/ and /his/ seperate. Not to mention you're the cancer that's killing actual discussion on pol.

>>2744788
To be fair, I took a subject at uni on the EU and I still have no idea how that thing works. The framework is fucking confusing as shit, especially for a non European.

>>2744981
Off yourself and all of you guys who voted that fucking idiot

>>2746561
Not a problem if you are not gonna be the president of the united states senpai

>>2744579
Celebrities (and many non-celebrities) often hire writers to write books in their names. Considering how illiterate Trump is, there's little doubt about this one.

>>2747303
lol. having a hard time grasping that it doesn't matter if the president doesn't know details like that, aren't you? it's just the democrats that blow stuff like this out of proportion. OH NO TRUMP DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE NUCLEAR TRIAD IS!!!!! OH NO TRUMP THINKS YOU CAN MAKE A TRADE DEAL WITH GERMANY, THE HORROR! OH NO TRUMP DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT CIVIL WAR HISTORY, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO!!!!!!

>>2742562
Which is why all the other Realtors who have been active during the same period of time are billionaires now

>>2742061
I'm pretty sure this is only a thing to make the $20 a new political football media distraction and rallying call for his supporters. I don't thin he gives an actual shit about Jackson except he can make a controversy out of it.

>>2745157
Not him but
>replies twice to show someone how NOT butthurt/baited they are

>>2742487
The argument in this article, if I'm understanding it correctly, is that had Trump just invested his $200 million in that real estate index he would have made more money than he did by using it in his own business.

The problem with this argument is the assumption that the goal is to make the most amount of money possible. Someone who uses $200 million dollars to create a successful business should be applauded far more than someone who just invests it in an index and lets it compound.

>>2742323
shut up trumpet shill

>>2747650
> Man who has control of the nukes
> doesn't know what delivery platforms are

I don't see a problem with that.

>supporting Trump

What's it like to not have a college degree? What does it feel like to be so dumb?

>all these retards talking about drumpf when AJ had many north/south controversies during his presidency that lead to the civil war
In the words of drumpf himself, Sad!

>>2745101

He really would've.

Apart from the fact he was a proslavery zealot (not surprising given his background), I'd probably vote for him today.

>>2747975
Look buddy I have a college degree, my friends are very very smart people. We've all been to college you know? We've helped invent big big things. Some of you here are just embarrassing, just embarrassing. I know it, the people know it, everyone knows it! Sad!

>>2747936
me either, especially since he doesn't have complete control of the nukes

bumping thread

>>2748014
Same, not into the slavery shit but he and Jackson were great men.

>>2747935
Kys hilldawg

>>2747975
Your lesbian basket-weaving certificate doesn't count as a degree sweetie.

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>>2742328
From one Yankee to the next: shut the fuck up. You obviously know nothing about the civil war, or Lincoln.

First of all, even the southern historian Shelby Foote admitted that the north was basically fighting with one hand tied behind its back. The more he studied the war, the more convinced he was of the inevitability of the north's victory. By every conceivable metric the north was out-competing the south, their only real shot at independence was securing European recognition of statehood, and Europeans weren't that any more keen than Yankees to listen to confederate arguments justifying slavery.

>m-muh habeus corpus
They're called emergency war time powers. His goal wasn't to preserve people's feelings, his goal was to win the war at any costs. That doesn't make him a beta that makes him an alpha, because winning in war requires a certain level of ruthlessness.

Jefferson Davis often lamented regrettably at how constrained his powers were compared to Lincoln, when Lee's Virginians are dying of exposure while the governor of South Carolina is hording uniforms and there's nothing Davis can do about it because muh states rights. The worst possible thing that a country at war can have is a weak executive authority.

In all his personal correspondences Lincoln detested slavery and compared it to life under his loutish father, who worked him tirelessly for more beer money. The most delicious irony of the Civil War is that freeing the slaves only became politically feasible thanks to the emergency war time powers... for a war that southerners started to maintain slavery.

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>>2748780
>their only real shot at independence was securing European recognition of statehood

Well that or McClellan beating Lincoln in the 1864 Election, which might have indeed happened had the Confederacy not experienced irrecoverable reversals that year (the loss of Atlanta and Lee becoming bogged down defending Petersburg most especially).

>>2742203
Thats a good way to look at it, lets do a little mental exercise here and say the Andrew Jackson was president for the civil war, how could he have prevented it or led the Union to a speedy end to the conflict?

>>2747936
>what is delegation

Im sure whoever oversees the control of the nukes is doing a good job

Also, fuck the EU

>>2750234
Done what he said he would do during the Nullification Crisis, and made the war start earlier and be way bloodier.

Then resign or end the war with Confederate independence once his home state left.

>>2748780
>Lincoln detested slavery and compared it to life under his loutish father, who worked him tirelessly for more beer money.
>who worked him tirelessly for more beer money.

lolwut

Lincoln's family were strict Baptists who abhorred drinking and dancing (although he and his father did supposedly do distilling on the side). His father worked him hard because his mother died and his own health began to fail early on.

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>>2750259
>way bloodier.

Except the improvements in long-range rifles and artillery pieces that rendered Napoleonic tactics useless by 1861 hadn't occurred yet.

>>2750267
Nigger are you denying the reality that Lincoln's father was a drunk? This is attested by multiple sources. His mom dying certainly meant that Lincoln had to work around the house but not to the extent that he did.

>>2742328
>M-muh cawnstitutional riiiiights!
>Muh tyranny

You're not a Northerner. You're a Dixiecuck pretending to be a Northerner so you can pretend your argument has any leg to stand on.

>>2742383
>I'm not even American
Bullshit
>But you sound like a college student
Cool way of addressing the facts that were laid out, faggot. You got any more of those hot opinions?

>>2748715
>jumps right into the useless degree bullshit
Like clockwork. Have a free (you)

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>>2751700

Well there you have it folks.

Proof that the Yankee has no respect for God-given Rights

>>2751725
Not that guy, but I know plenty of folks in my generation who graduated with useless degrees and 40+k in debt.
Pretending any college degree is the same leg up it used to be just no longer applies these days. Jeeze one girl I know is still working at gas stations.

Honestly, it is ironic. In a welfare society, stupid people are supported by the state. This allows them to breed, which stupid people do more then smart people. In a democracy, this means stupid people will eventually always choose who rules.

So many idiots with degrees think with their hearts instead of their heads, and can't wrap their mind around the many, MANY consequences of a nanny state (healthcare, welfare, ect).

In my lifetime I'm going to get to watch America eat itself unless something is done, depressing. At any rate, hard times ahead.

Also, unless you have a Masters in a STEM field you are a faggot, and shouldn't have the right to vote, because you are a retarded child.

>>2744938
At least Trump is willing and sounds like he is trying to learn on the fly. It would be much worse if he refused to learn anything honestly.

The world has just grown so complicated that I feel bad for new generations being born.

>>2752553
Next time a surgeon is operating on you, I'm sure you'll be happy he's willing and try's to learn on the fly.

Before you say it's not the same thing - a surgeon only has a few hundred lives in his hands, whilst a president is responsible for hundreds of millions.

>>2742970
>Fredrick Douglass is a literal who
>This was posted on the /his/ board

Humanity was a mistake.

>>2747307
Not a problem if you're going to be president of the United States either. Fuck the EU.
:3

>>2753134
>being this buttblasted no one cares about your mulatto hero

>>2753041
Oh piss off you dumb faggot, the president doesn't have anyone's lives in his hands, anymore so than the goddamn mayor does.

He's a fucking politician.

>>2753302
This is easily one of the top ten dumbest posts I've ever seen on 4chan,

>>2747838
> Donald Trump is a "realtor"

Ever notice how none of the people who think Trump is a brilliant businessman know anything about business themselves?

>>2752553

>The world has just grown so complicated that I feel bad for new generations being born.

The fact you posted this on a history board means you are a remarkably stupid person

>>2747650
>having a hard time grasping that it doesn't matter if the president doesn't know details like that, aren't you?

The basics of how international trade works is not a "detail." In fact his supposed savvy in that area is the main issue he campaigned on. But I guess that doesn't matter now, we've always been at war with Eastasia, etc. Trumptards are amazing.

>>2753339

He has to believe the POTUS doesn't matter, or else he'll have to ask himself why he supported the joke candidate.

>>2753302
>head of the executive
>doesn't have anyone's lives in his hands.
bravo.

>>2753571
I supported him because I wanted him to interact with Narendra Modi. They are both retards with huge chips on their shoulders.

>>2753552
The president doesn't single handedly make trade deals. It's all delegated to other people. It is strictly a detail for the president to know that stuff. All a president needs is a vision and work ethic.

>>2753604
It was almost worth it to make Pena Nieto incredibly butthurt.

>>2753618
how is spending weekends golfing at a place he owns visionary or showing of a work ethic?

>>2753635
if you think presidents play golf strictly for fun you're a lost cause. he doesn't play alone, he plays to get business done with other people.

>>2753644
and why does he have to do that in his own place instead of DC?

>>2753647
the environment has everything to do with getting business done. making people feel comfortable just hanging out instead of imposing on them the fact that you're the president and having them in the white house makes people clam up

>>2753651
yes, playing golf with other heads of state on trump property magically makes them more amenable to US needs.

>>2753684
you underestimate the power of 1 on 1 talks while playing recreational sports

>>2750136
fair point.

Still though, that's not something that was in the Confederate's control, really. That would have been the Yankees defeating themselves.

>>2753467
He deals in real estate. Now quit being pedantic and address the point: If it's so easy, why hasn't everyone done it?

>>2753647
Have you been to DC in the winter? It fucking sucks.

>>2753956
and it is the national capital.

>>2753959
Yes?

>>2753965
so instead of actually meeting with leaders in the national capital, he takes them on a roundabout trip to his private property costing taxpayers a huge amount of sum for no discernable gains and this somehow makes him a visionary leader?

>>2753986
Tee bee aytch, if he's actually going golfing with world leaders and getting shit done, that's precisely how I want my tax money spent. It's like how Jimmy Carter bought a bunch of 300 dollar pens and left them on Air Force One for foreign leaders to steal.

A good relationship is worth a lot more than a golfing trip or a nice pen.

t. voted for Hillary

>>2753986
Just by way of example, the Prime Minister of Japan loves to golf. So if Trump wants to establish a friendly relationship, he'll take him golfing. He won't do it in DC, because the district is shitty in February.

Now quit bitching for its own sake.

>>2742061

The secession movement in the south was a direct reaction to the anti-slavery movement in the north.

>>2754005
and how has he changed the US-Japan relationship since he came into office?

>>2753992
what shit is he getting done?

>>2754017
I don't know.

I don't know if he is.

I'm just saying, if he is actually using golf courses to have casual 1 to 1 conversations with other world leaders, that's an effective use of time and money.

>>2754013
Are we not dealing with problems in North Korea and with China? Is maintaining a good relationship with Japan not important? Are you not retarded?

>>2754070
what problem in Nork?
the US just keeps sending food aid to the gooks and they occasionally launch a missile that collapses. Japan has been a constant American ally since ww2 and I don't see the president's golfing attempts creating a new paradigm in US-Japanese relations.

>>2754082
You're the only one talking about a "new" relationship between the two countries. Non-autistic people generally try to make good first impressions with others that they will be working with for a period of eight years.

>>2754100
>8
now hold on there.

>>2754100

>Non-autistic people generally try to make good first impressions

Do good leaders openly insult their closest allies while spouting blatant untruths then praise despots and dictators?

>>2754114
>Do good leaders openly insult their closest allies while spouting blatant untruths then praise despots and dictators?
[Citation Needed]

>>2754129
>trump disparges NATO and presents the german chancellor with an invoice.
>this is somehow not autistic.

>>2754139

Obama also pressured NATO to spend more. Trump is just more aggressive about it. What's the point of an alliance where nobody else is doing their part?

If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.

The dude actually fucking predicted the Civil War perfectly.

>>2754139
Get useful or get dropped, my man

>>2754148
because other countries had already committed to do more before trump came to power?

And how does making a bullshit invoice to give to the leader of an allied country make you a smart leader? The only thing it does is make you look like an incompetent buffoon.

>>2753571
Of course I believe the president matters, I just think saying he has all our lives in his hands is histrionic nonsense. A president is a highly constrained politician, not a fucking king or the god damned fuehrer.

>>2753596
More directly than a surgeon?
No.
He doesn't.

Friendly reminder Trump lied about the size of his inauguration crowed, lied about being wiretapped, lied about lying about being wiretapped, and also claimed that "nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated"

He definitely sounds like he is in control and not just making this up as he's going along

>>2754168
he is the head of the armed forces and authorized the raid that ended up killing a US navy SEAL.

>>2754161
>>2754168
>somebody launches missiles at the US
>President has about 10 minutes to decide what to do
>what he does directly determines whether hundreds of millions of people live or die

>>2754180
and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it but cry libshit

>>2754188
>cry
they are tears of lulz friendo.

>>2754180
Friendly Reminder that Hillary Clinton will NEVER be president

>>2754188
>I believe that Trump is a bad president because of x, and also y
>THE PRESIDENT IS AWFUL AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT U MAD BRO

What makes somebody grow up and decide to be the human equivalent of a cancer cell?

>>2754185

And then blamed the raid on the generals he ordered to do it, and Obama who is now irrellevant

>b-but it was Obama's plan

So Trump just signs off on things without understanding them or caring?

Remember how Trump ran on being pro-military? What a hero, blaming soldiers for the thing he tells them to do

>>2754197
doesn't change the fact that america has a former WWE character as president.

>>2754186
If someone "launches missiles at the US" all the people in the locations targeted by them are already dead, what decision exactly are you anticipating the president having to make in this situation?
Whether or not to call Superman?

>>2754201
Awful for you maybe, I'm having a blast.

>>2754197

If she won, dropped the MOAB, and openly discussed the possibility of military action in North Korea during her first 100 days as President, do you think the people who are defending those actions now would be defending them then?

>Hillary is a warhawk and wants to send your kids to die
>Well, Trump is just trying to be strong and take care of business, cry harder liberals

the cognitive dissonance is obvious to everyone but you, trust me

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>>2754221
>If someone "launches missiles at the US" all the people in the locations targeted by them are already dead
>this is how Trumpfags actually believe the world works
>Trumpfags think the nuclear football is just a prop
>Trumpfags think the title "Commander in Chief" is a formality and not a central part of the job description
>Trumpfags would gladly ruin the greatest country on earth just to deal with their own crippling inferiority complexes

>>2754185
And?
You realize soldiers die right?
Why exactly are we pretending a combatant dying in a raid was an unprecedented event in history until Trump took office?

Are you genuinely that out of touch with reality that you think a single soldier dying in the service of his country is a national scandal?

>>2754240

The part where he refuses to accept responsibility for things directly caused and approved by him, and he has done it his entire life

It's almost like he is unable to admit fault under any circumstances, a great trait to have in a leader with nuclear launch codes

>>2754226
If she did that and nothing else, I would all them very measured responses considering her campaign rhetoric of ordering the Air Force to engage Russian jets.

>>2754236
What exactly does the "nuclear football" have to do with saving American lives in this situation where nuclear missiles are already in the air on their way to their targets, aside from offering the president the ability to respond in kind?

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>>2750259
It's an interesting point to consider though: would a Democrat like Andrew Jackson have laid down the hammer more severely than a Republican like Lincoln? I mean Lincoln ran on a platform of keeping the Union together and compromising with the slave states. If someone like Andrew Jackson ran on a platform of keeping the Union together by bullying the slave states into submission, would that have worked or made them all the more likely to secede?

It's worth mentioning that James Buchanan, the 15th president and perennial candidate for worst president of all time, was a slavery-supporting Democrat who sat on his hands and did nothing but let the U.S army fall into a state of disrepair while the south militarized in the wake of the John Brown incident. When the south seceded, the U.S Army lost basically its entire officer corps, and anyone who's ever been in the military can tell you that there's a real difference between an army run by experienced officers and an army run by green ones. So it's not exactly Lincoln's fault that Buchanan dropped a massive fucking internal military problem right in his lap on day 1 of his presidency

I think the best argument that the Jackson crowd has going for it is his military record: Andrew Jackson talked the talk and walked the walk: he was a hard motherfucker who took bullets to the chest like it was nothing and could scrabble together an army made out of the lowliest scum of the Earth and whip them into fighting men capable of going toe to toe with the world's finest. Someone like him might have been better able to sift through the chafe, the Hookers and the Burnsides, keep McClellan in his place as the good little bureaucrat that he was, and make sure that the real talent rises to the top of the U.S army

But then, doesn't this kind of defeat the point that Andrew Jackson would have been able to avert a war? Unless the point is that he would have ended it more swiftly?

genuinely interested to hear what people think

>>2754240
trump directly approved that raid. The soldier's death is on his hands you dumbass. The fact that he refused to take responsibility for what he ordered is the cherry on the cake. Commander in Chief is not a ceremonial title.

>>2754253

As has been explained numerous times, though I doubt you care to listen, the 'no fly zone' she spoke of would only happen with assistance and coordination with Russia, no, she did not run on "I'm gonna start a ground war with Russia" you fucking idiot

I don't even like the bitch, I don't know why I'm bothering with this

>>2754266
Which is why she refused to answer the question of "What happens when Russia refuses to accept a no fly zone?"

>>2754261
The President is the one who determines what to do during a nuclear war.

If shit hits the fan, he's the one who decides how to act. Nuclear wars happen too fast to consult Congress, so the president has essentially total control.

Hence why the Presidency has been a lot more important since the invention of the atom bomb.

>>2754272

I thought it was a good thing when Presidents don't tell you their plans, doesn't that make them unpredictable?

Also what is more likely if Russia says no to the no-fly-zone

A. They figure something else out or just leave the situation as is
B. Start a nuclear war

the fact you (and many others) jumped straight to B says more about you than the situation being discussed

>>2754247
>a soldier dying in a raid is entirely Trumps fault and personal responsibility
>an American ambassador, a foreign services officer, and two CIA contractors being left hung out to dry and die at the hands of Islamic terrorists is an act of God that the Obama administration had no control over

It's not that I think Benghazi is a huge deal, because I don't, it's just kind of hard for me to simultaneously believe that one is a big scandal but the other isn't just because a man hated by the left is president.

>>2754281
>Don't just assume that the candidate you don't like will start a nuclear war, silly bois
>But seriously, we can't let this guy get the nuclear codes

>>2754299
>an American ambassador, a foreign services officer, and two CIA contractors being left hung out to dry and die at the hands of Islamic terrorists is an act of God that the Obama administration had no control over

Is this anything close to what happened?

It's been five years, and I don't think the Republicans have come up with a single shred of actual evidence.

>>2754299
and benghazi was actually investigated by the legislature.

>>2754273
Do you genuinely believe American nuclear policy is thought up on the fly, or the president's duties in such a situation extend beyond "please sir, it's time to board Air force One." and "do you authorize us to launch in response?"?

>>2754315
Yes.

I believe that, because it's true.

It's telling that you're trying to convince the thread that the most powerful person in the world can be a total goober and it'll be fine, rather than convince the thread that the most powerful person in the world isn't a total goober.

But yeah, what the fuck do you think "Commander in chief" means.

It means the head of the military. The military are the ones with the bombs, including nuclear missiles. That's why you're supposed to pay attention when you're electing one.

>>2754303
and the evidence that Trump is responsible for a soldier dying thousands of miles away from him is what exactly?

>>2754332
that he ordered the raid that directly led to the soldier's death?
He can own up to it. I have a problem with him trying to deflect from it

>>2754332

He approved the mission, the mission failed, therefore it is his responsibility as a leader

>>2754325
>I believe that because it's true.
Then you're a fucking retard, I don't know what else to tell you. The president doesn't make up nuclear strategy on the fly.

>>2754332
Well, he ordered the raid.

I mean, I agree with you that the media is milking it because they don't like the guy, but it's kind of a dick move to pass along the blame.

Kennedy went directly to the public after the Bay of Pigs and told them he fucked up, and his approval rating actually went up because people respected the honesty.

Of course, I have a very hard time imagining Hillary admitting an error either. Lord knows she didn't do it with the email server.

>>2754345
He doesn't, he executes it.

Of course there are plans, but the commander is the person who makes the final judgement call what to do.

This isn't just hypothetical, there was a close call in 1995 where Boris Yeltsin had ten minutes to decide whether or not to nuke the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident

It depresses me that there are people who have graduated high school in the United States, who don't understand that the commander in chief is the head honcho of the US military, or who don't understand that the head of the US military commands the fucking US military.

>>2754341
I wasn't aware Trump ever denied authorizing the raid, I'm not sure what else you expect him to "own up to".

>>2742402

That doesn't even make sense kek

>>2754358
>he executes it
So as I said, the only thing the president does in that situation is provide the authorization to carry out the response the military already has set up, and the people targeted by those inbound missiles are effectively already dead.

>B-b-boris Yeltsin...
If by your own admission a corrupt drunkard is capable of the task, remind me again why I should be wringing my hands over Trump?

>it depresses me that blah blah blah
and it depresses ME, that there are people as intellectually dishonest as you in the world.

>>2754359

Blaming the former president and the generals who oversaw it is not "owning up to it", it's literally blaming someone else

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Is he really the first person to ever realize healthcare is complicated?

>>2754392
I still don't understand what exactly the president has to "own up to" beyond authorizing the raid, which as far as I've heard he has never denied doing.

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Lads, can we keep the current events chitchat to a minimum, please? Everyone knows the context of this conversation and there is an entire board devoted to discussing current political events.

I think the more interesting question is what could Jackson have done differently if he had been elected president in 1860. Would a slave-owning Tennessean Democrat like Jackson have had the heart to march against his home state? Would Jackson have bloodied the slave states into submission more quickly than Lincoln, or would he have prevented the war by giving them basically anything they wanted? The whole reason that they seceded was because Lincoln was going to stop new slave states from being created. Would he have let that happen, and would that have been preferable to a bloody conflict to prevent such a thing?

>>2754387
>So as I said, the only thing the president does in that situation is provide the authorization to carry out the response the military already has set up, and the people targeted by those inbound missiles are effectively already dead

Except that's wrong, you fucking retard.

>>2754629
I imagine that having fought the British first hand, Jackson would be keenly aware of the risks posed to the United States by division or infighting.

Also, he'd have nationalist and Southern credentials that Lincoln did it, so they might trust him more than they would Lincoln.

Also, they wouldn't secede in the first place if Jackson got elected.

>>2754629

>there is an entire board devoted to discussing current political events.

That board doesn't exist for real discussion anon and you know it

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>>2754660
And maybe that's why I want all this "real" discussion about Donald Trump to go there, and let's talk about Andrew Jackson, instead.

I think it's kind of bitterly ironic that the most likely way Andrew Jackson would have "averted" the Civil War would have been to just give the slave owning states whatever they wanted. Yankee states forced to return runaway slaves? Sure thing. Every new state is a slave state? Sure, why not? Let's go invade Cuba and Central and South America and turn the United States into a slave owning empire? Seems like the kind of thing he would dig.

>>2754695
>Every new state is a slave state?
>implying the North would permit this to happen

>>2754731
Basically.

If Jackson had been the president, the North would have seceded... and it would have won. They had the people, the industry, and the economy to fight the south. Historically these are the reasons they won and it'd be stupid to assume that these same factors wouldn't apply in this scenario.

Jackson also crashed the economy and nearly killed the concept of a centralized currency in the United States, I don't think he's the sort of leader any president should aspire to be like in domestic policy issues.

>>2754631
whatever
I've got better things to do

>>2754749
The Civil War is one of those things which makes me hate normies.

Half of them think

>the North really hated slavery and loved freedom, so they went to war to free the slaves

and the other half think

>Lincoln was all tyrannical and shit, in ways which I will never explain, so the south had to secede to defend freedom

When the reality is

>the industrial north saw the political and economic power of southern slave-owners as a direct threat to their future, and the agrarian South saw the growing influence of abolitionists as an existential threat to their society, which triggered a competition over western states that eventually escalated into armed conflict

Also, Dredd Scott and Buchanan were heavily responsible.

>>2754760
Right on the money. The South saw the curtailing of the expansion of slavery as a threat to the entire institution. Over time, more and more of the general population was getting abolitionist, this is true, but most of the outrage in the north over Dred Scott was the implication that federal agents could essentially circumvent local authorities entirely. In a way, the meme answer 'it was about states rights' that southern dipshits like to trot out is true, but they fail to mention it was about the states rights to dictate the policy of slavery.

Most of the industrial north, while they had little direct economic conflict with the south, had a lot of political conflict - mostly over slavery. Things just escalated. Honestly by the time of Dred Scott, a civil war or at least a violent conflict over slavery in some fashion was inevitable. The whole 'Jackson would have stopped the civil war' is basically Trump trying to claim that being a strong man and defying courts and other branches is totally acceptable because a civil war happened. The man's obviously got less understanding of history than your average 5th grader who can tell you quite clearly, it was over slavery.

>>2754789
I mean, if Buchanan hadn't been a complete dipshit, he probably could have ended the conflict with less than half a million dead.

When people give an answer for "worst president ever" that isn't Buchanan, that's a sure sign that they're a basic bitch.

>>2754760
>>2754749
>>2754695
Based historical discussion. There is actually a ton of ways Andrew Jackson is tied to the civil war and I was disappointed to find out this thread had to do with trump or some shit. The slavery debate and succession controversies even started during his presidency.

>>2754795
I dunno, Harding is a close runner up for me at least.

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>>2754749
>The Northern Rebellion would have won

d-dear God, now I DO wish Andrew Jackson had been elected president in 1860!

>>2754825
To be fair, the full list is Harding, Johnson, or Buchanan

>>2754869
Johnson gets a bad rap he doesn't really deserve IMO. He was hated because he wasn't Lincoln and was totally ok with letting some of the small confederate fish go to totally ruin their memory in the rest of the south.

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>>2754749
>Jackson also crashed the economy and nearly killed the concept of a centralized currency in the United States, I don't think he's the sort of leader any president should aspire to be like in domestic policy issues.

This

He also made an enemy out of the Cherokee, which came to bite the US Government in the ass in 1861

>>2754892
Well, that and being a pro-slavery Democrat whom Lincoln chose as a compromise to keep the border states from seceding, and was the most veto-overridden president in history, and probably the reason why reconstruction was botched from the beginning.

>>2742295
wow you've swallowed the meme pill
blatantly disregarding the questions and criticisms the media poses and deferring to common ideological quips is not the same as "doing research"

>>2753618
And yet he campaign on that exact thing, being a hands on negotiator....

>>2755119
hands on doesn't equal single handedly

>>2754240
Read the particular thread you replied to..."its not like he has anyone's life in his hands"

>>2754387
>the only thing the president does in that situation is proved the authorization
The president has to be knowledgeable and prudent to make a decision to vaporize millions of people or not to vaporize millions of people

>>2755125
Whats your point? I made no reference to Trump being alone in his decisions and even if I did it doesn't really help your argument. Do you think its okay for a president to be exceedingly ignorant of the things he's supposed to be negotiating and not particularly good at negotiating in the first place despite him campaigning on it? If you think he IS a good negotiator, and he IS knowledgeable, then say that, don't make an excuse that concedes in a de facto sorta way that he's shit at what he does if you don't actually think that...and if you do think that...what the fuck?

>>2747975
How's it feel sucking Mexican dick?

>>2755163
>Whats your point? I made no reference to Trump being alone in his decisions
I said that the president doesn't single handedly make trade deals and you said he ran on that exact thing by saying he would be a hands on negotiator. This is you making reference to Trump being alone in his decisions.

The rest of your post is so loaded with unsupported assumptions I don't even know where to begin. I don't consider Trump to be "exceedingly ignorant" of the things that he is supposed to be negotiating as president. Not knowing that the USA is to make trade deals with the EU rather than individual EU nations is one thing. Not knowing what would be a good deal for the USA irrespective of who it is made with is another. There is no reason to believe that the second situation is true, while the first situation is just a detail. Additionally, I see no reason to believe that he is "not particularly good at negotiating". Also, none of my stances concede that he is shit at what he does. All I've told you before this post was that he doesn't matter if the president doesn't know the details. That doesn't mean I'm calling him shit, in fact, it has nothing to do with whether or not he's or bad at his job since the details are not part of his job.

>>2755314
>that he doesn't matter
that it*

>>2755302
How's it feel being not white?

>>2742295 #

>He inherited a real estate empire
You realize that most of his company was built by him, right?

>inb4 hurr durr million dollar loan
yeah a million dollars to manage international company
If you can't understand how successful trump is as a businessman than you shouldn't even speak on the subject you
tard
return to Reddit where you belong