Anyone else feel kinda sorry for the natives? Those fuckers never

>>2740756
>Anyone else feel kinda sorry for the natives?
Nope. If you'd posted the Incas, then I would be pissed.

>>2740756
>Anyone else feel kinda sorry for the natives?
Which ones? The Aztecs? Fuck no, they waged many wars against muh ancestors and completely got what was coming to then. So did the Comanche, and Siux.

But many natives didn't deserve what happened to them. The Nez Perce really didn't deserve the shit they got from the government.

>>2741639
>But many natives didn't deserve what happened to them.
Europeans didn't deserve to have 2/3rds of their population wiped out by the Black Death either yet I don't see the constant weeping.

Why can people accept that having large populations wiped out by disease isn't a unique evenr in history and will probably happen again?

>>2740756
No based on how the Aztec descendents behave in Central America they were obviously savages.

>>2740756
They should have kill them all.They are genetic waste

>>2740773
>>2741639
>>2741670

>Muh virtue signaling

>>2741646
>Europeans didn't deserve to have 2/3rds of their population wiped out by the Black Death either
Yeah the black death sure treated europeans like shit.
Killing them, making treaties, later breaking them, and then putting europeans in reservations which only got smaller and smaller as the black death kept settling near said reservations or finding a shiny metal nearby. Then forcing European children into boarding schools where they were beaten for speaking their savage European languages and where they could have a "proper" black death education.

Man fuck the black death for doing that.

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>>2741698

>>2741698
Europeans faced worse under the turkroaches. Also
>all the Americas is USA
kys.

>>2741698
Go get drunk and beat your wife, red deer.

>>2740756
I don't feel sorry for them. History is just what it is. However, I'd really love to know what Aztec and Incan culture would be like today if no one had intervened in their nation building. It'd probably be really shitty with lots of poverty, but I bet the culture would super cool.

>>2741729
>all the Americas is USA
Oh yes let's bring the Spanish into the conversation, as we all know they did their utmost to treat natives with respect and never killed entire civilizations because of a yellow metal.

>>2741729

There reality isn't any better in most areas outside of US. Also,
>Euros had it bad a few times so it's justifiable for them to act like sociopaths in totally unrelated instances
SJW-tier logic

>>2741741
>they did their utmost to treat natives with respect
Is this a new form of fagotry?
>and never killed entire civilizations because of a yellow metal.
Your right about that. They never killed an entire civilization. Diseases did. They did change a civilization however.

>>2741737
>It'd probably be really shitty with lots of poverty
Isn't that what it's like now following intervention?

>>2741745
You really need to educate yourself on this subject if you want a serious discussion

>>2741759
Spanish never killed off a civilization you twit. They integrated the redskins into their own.

>>2741752
Yes, but it's a western type of poverty. What I mean is that it would probably have looked more like Calcutta or something.

>>2741764
>Spanish never killed off a civilization
wow.... seriously, educate yourself.

>>2741770
>Mexico
>western type of poverty
Uh, sure thing.

>>2741779
Natives weren't civilized until Cortes impregnated Malinche and created the first mestizo.Natives were genetic garbage and their genes had to be cleansed through massive breeding programs

>>2741799

>hurr civilized maymay durr
What classifies a culture as civilized to you? Keep in mind, "being white XD" is not a standard of development.

>>2741779
>no argument
Civilization is fluid. With the Spanish and Portuguese you have a clear cultural diffusion with the Amerindians. Racially they produced a largely mixed stock of mestizos. Spiritually you have a clear mixture of European and Amerindian beliefs such as the Lady of Guadalupe. Politically you have instances like the Spanish keeping the same potato distribution system of the Incas. Hell, the Spanish even wanted to preserve the Aztec Empire but the 200,000 Amerindians who fought with the 1500 conquistadors wouldn't have it.

I can sort of see the argument that the USA "killed off" Amerindian civilization. But even this isn't factually correct in a purely technical sense . USA simply severely limited the scope of Amerindian civilization to the point of irrelevance. But i'm not buying that the Spanish and Portuguese "killed" Amerindian civilization. They certainly defeated it though.

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>>2741683
>>2741799
>Tenochtitlan was founded on an islet in the western part of the lake in the year 1325. Around it, the Aztecs created a large artificial island using a system similar to the creation of chinampas. To overcome the problems of drinking water, the Aztecs built a system of dams to separate the salty waters of the lake from the rain water of the effluents. It also permitted them to control the level of the lake. The city also had an inner system of channels that helped to control the water.

>During Cortés' siege of Tenochtitlan in 1521, the dams were destroyed, and never rebuilt, so flooding became a big problem for the new Mexico City built over Tenochtitlan.

>Mexico City suffered from periodic floods; in 1604 the lake flooded the city, with an even more severe flood following in 1607. Under the direction of Enrico Martínez, a drain was built to control the level of the lake, but in 1629 another flood kept most of the city covered for five years.

>Eventually the lake was drained by the channels and a tunnel to the Pánuco River, but even that could not stop floods, since by then most of the city was under the water table. The flooding could not be completely controlled until 1967, with the construction of a Deep Drainage System.

>The ecological consequences of the draining were enormous. Parts of the valleys were turned semi-arid, and even today Mexico City suffers for lack of water. Due to overdrafting that is depleting the aquifer beneath the city, Mexico City is estimated to have dropped 10 meters in the last century. Furthermore, because soft lake sediments underlie most of Mexico City, the city has proven vulnerable to soil liquefaction during earthquakes, most notably in the 1985 earthquake when hundreds of buildings collapsed and 45 000 lives were lost.

>>2741821
>What classifies a culture as civilized to you?
Not sacrificing virgin women

>>2741827
>the Spanish even wanted to preserve the Aztec Empire
Source on this?

>>2741837
>The copy passta autist
Technotitlan was shit

>>2741840
>muh feelings about violence
Is not an argument. If you want to use that to discredit an entire empire that developed well in every other aspect then you might as well check every single one off the list as "savage" because they have all partaken in brutality.

>>2741841
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Hern%C3%A1n_Cort%C3%A9s


The way Indians were treated varied from one part of the Americas to another. However, they were generally treated better in the Kingdom of New Spain than in Peru. With great vision, Cortés tried to preserve the monuments of the Aztecs and funded the construction of schools and hospitals out of his own pocket, providing for them in his will.[19]

>>2741852
They were barbarians without the wheel.Barely human

>>2741843
>The copy passta autist
not an argument
>Technotitlan was shit
not an argument

stay butthurt

>>2741843
Give valid reasons why it was shit then, because as far as facts go it looks pretty good on paper.

>>2741858
>wheel
Wheels have been found to have been used on toys. They understood the concept, they just didn't care for reasons that are most likely contextual.

>>2740756
>Anyone else feel kinda sorry for the natives?

The natives of mesoamerica? Not really, no.
Thanks for asking tho

>>2741858
careful, youll trigger the shitskin from the last thread into a line by line, sentence by sentence autistic quoting tirade

>>2741880
This. Liking a civilization is one thing. I like ancient Egypt. This being said, I don't feel sorry for the ancient Egyptian.

>>2741853
Hmm, interesting. Thank you.

>>2741858
You don't even believe this shit.

>>2741880
>>2741892
Feeling sorry is one thing, claiming that you're not accountable for their actions while attempting to justify them in the same breath is another. And refusing to remain unbiased and listen to facts is going to piss anyone off just as well.

>>2741745
If they didn't destroy civilizations than why is their religion no longer practiced? Why the prohibitions of dances and dramas (to the point where only one or a couple of the precolumbian era survive to this day), why were they forced to adopt the roman alphabet and their writings censored, why did the elite get brainwashed as children, why are the few remnants of the cultures only survive in rural villages where imposing control was harder? Disease weakened them yes, but the Spanish worked hard to eradicate the civilizations here. Why do you think they burned all the codices they could find?

>>2741858
They had the wheel, and barbarian is a subjective term, in the perspective of the natives spaniards were barbarians too.

>>2741942
>what is cultural diffusion
We should require people take a knowledge test before posting on /his/.

>>2741949
>in the perspective of the natives spaniards were gods
tbf anyone can be a god to natives and their shit genetics

>>2741951
Forced diffusion
>there's a term for it therefore it was ok

>>2741964
>Forced
No more forced than the aztecs or incas you faggot.

>>2741964
What do you think has repeatedly happened since people supposedly began migrating out of Africa 200,000 years ago? Every time on crossed paths with another group "forced" diffusion happened. How could it not? Spanish aren't even close to unique in this regard.

>>2741962
>the Aztecs thought the Spanish were gods maymay
Keep showing your superficial - bordering on ignorance - understanding of the topic.

>>2741981
>Keep showing your superficial - bordering on ignorance - understanding of the topic.
They thought they were gods at least at the beginning.Well and their women

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>>2741983
No they didn't. If you are refering the Quetzalcaotl myth, that was a mix of misunderstanding of indigenous protocols and early colonialist propaganda.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/529592?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

>>2740756
Yes, europeans are the real rapists and immigrants

>>2741983
It's a meme. There's no evidence that would prove that any of the natives really thought the Spanish were gods, and plenty of evidence points to the contrary. I remember hearing that upon the first meeting between Cortes and Moctezuma II, Cortes reached out to him for a handshake or any type of similar greeting, and was immediately blocked off by guards. Nobody touches the king apparently, and it's thought that the Aztecs regarded their kings as the closest embodiments to gods on earth.

>>2742034
>There's no evidence that would prove that any of the natives really thought the Spanish were gods
>All this revisionism to make dumb natives look like inteligent people
Read the conquest of Mexico by Hugh Thomas and stop reading the pastas from that autistic umpalumpa

To the last two posters saying "it was a meme" it wasn't.

I've read that book you cited by the way, she's actually wrong about the source credit for the claim of Aztecs treating them as divine agents, Bernal Diaz and Olmedo are far more reputable and were there during the whole conquest.

The confusion, is that people believe the Aztecs thought they were gods. Nay, they believed them, initially to be agents of divine origin. Quetzalcaotl. This was highly doubted by select few representatives amongst the natives; Moctezuma did at first fear its truth, but later, came to deny this.

They managed to retain this illusion of divine power due to the strength of their arms and power of their martial prowess. It's only at the very end, that most of the Tenochitlans regard them with contempt, one could argue once the Noche triste happens.

But the point is, the "myth" of natives believing the Spanish to divine agents, is very real, just with more nuances than people of either sides of the debates like.

>>2742047
Read:
Restall, Matthew (2003). Seven Myths of the Spanish Conquest.
Lockhart, James, ed. (1993). We People Here: Nahuatl Accounts of the Conquest of Mexico.
Smith, Michael E. (2003). The Aztecs (2nd ed.)
Gillespie, Susan D (1989). The Aztec Kings: The Construction of Rulership in Mexica History

>>2742069
ah yes, good old (((restall))) (((lockhart))) and (((smith)))

sure thing bud, ill get right on that.

>>2742069
What if I've read it all, as I'm a scholar on the topic, and I still don't agree with them, as their evidence is based on nothing but theorisation on "what actually happened", as opposed to taking the source evidence from those who were there?

>>2742059
The problem is the Aztecs had no 'Gods', the closest to that is Teotl, a belief with more than one definition. Which is applied to things that are also unusual or strange. Sometimes to things that are bright or shine.

>Yfw the roleplaying chicanos are more likely to descend from the native allies of Spain rather than the glorious aztecs.

>>2742079
That's literally nothing but "they didn't actually have gods, so you can't be right ha ha ha", they did. Now if you want to argue semantics about how they distinguished them, fine, but they had clear distinctions of a divine entity, they even had previous associations, via Texococo to ideas of an "supreme" omniscient god.

Your claim is just stupid basically.

>>2742075
You guys are flat earther tier

>>2742077
The sources aren't always that reliable too, especially Diaz de Castillo. There are truths, but picking apart what parts are misunderstandings, which parts embelished (remember many were writing for an audience in spain) and exotic stories like this were in the fashion. Everyone writing at the time had an agenda, including the natives, but often they directed their speech against their native rivals, to elevate the status of their lineage. The tricky thing with first hand accounts is finding which parts are true and which aren't, archeology helps in this regard. But when it comes to the religious aspects it's like finding shit in mud.

>>2742113
If you're not going to accept the source material for its claim. Fine, but that does nothing for arguing its counter. I wish these people would remain historically objective and just say, "I don't believe this to be plausible, but I can't go back in time so, hey!", rather than literally make shit up.

>>2742106
They bring no sources just some loose theories.First account sources give a totally different view of the event than the baseless assumptions of those scholars.
>>2742113
The Spanish universities in America focused mostly on theology and native linguistics.They knew and understood native culture after studying it for a while and even created the first grammatical rules for different native languages like Guarani(I know it is from Paraguay but the Jesuit scholars worked the same way everywhere).The idea that everyone until the XX century didn't understood the natives in Mexico is just dumb

>>2742113
The Jews do the same things when it comes to the Bible. "All the bible is a forgery by Paul! Except those parts which could construed to be favorable towards us!"

>>2742091
The allies of the Spanish, the Tlaxcalans were Aztecs too. The defeated ones were the Mexicah.
That doesn't mean all Mexicans descend from the Tlaxcalans, or some other Aztec people.

The Aztecs were a tribute empire. They got their power from running around killing eveybody until they pledged their allegiance and gave them all their loot. Pretty nasty assholes. And a big reason the Spaniards had such an easy go at taking them down.

But yeah, I guess all the peasants and artisans and all the tribute cultures that were forced into it I'll feel sorry for.

>>2742091
It's hard to tell, the conquest period was a clusterfuck of alliances and hostilities. Many mexicans also probably have some african in them too (since their role in the conquest is severely downplayed) without knowing it. It's sad really, the conquest wouldn't be possible without the black conquistadors that formed part of the groups. Characters we will never know about.

The cruelty of the Iberian colonists puts even the Nazis and American slavery to shame.

>>2742164
t.dutchcuck

>>2740756
Honestly, they came at the right time when the other allies were tired of montezuma's shit.

>>2742130
>First account sources give a totally different view of the event than the baseless assumptions of those scholars.

It's impressive how you guys can outright reply to a post without reading anything of what said. >>2742113
>Everyone writing at the time had an agenda

>>2742158
There was 1 mulatto in the expedition I think.Or maybe it was just a morisco

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>>2742158
>the conquest wouldn't be possible without the black conquistadors

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Whats with the recent /pol/tier shitposting about the Amerindians? A thread dies an another one is made right up

>t-they didn't have the wheel
>t-they thought the Spaniards were gods
>(((Smith))) nice source

Sure, /pol/leaks everywhere, but there seems to be a guy mad regarding this theme

>>2742177
Castillo was about to die when he wrote it.He couldn't have much of an agenda.An even then there are multiple primary sources that conclude basically in the same things.The Spaniards mastered the native languages the Jesuits had an idea of how natives thought and what they believed at the time specially as some Spanish allies spoke the same language than the Mexica

>>2742188
Please refrain your subtle racism in this discourse.
>>2742182
Free blacks, some slave soldiers and mixed race ones which some would consider black too. That's more than one. I bet you were unaware of the women who paricipated too, or the non Spaniards in the Conquistador groups.

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>>2742158
AYO HOL UP! SO YOU BE SAYIN WE WUZ CONQUSTADORS N SHEEIT?!?

>>2742214
There was 1 black in Cortés expedition and 2 in Alvarado's expedition( both free slaves).
The African influence in Mexico is residual

>>2742194
The last one had a guy making a ridiculous claim. This one starts sympathetic, I don't think they are the same person. But I believe those replying are the same people. Personally I believe there's at least 6 or so Mesoamerican enthusiasts or Mesoboos. One shills the Tarascans, we have at least two Aztecboos, one Mayaboo, one guy from Guatemala, there's this other guy who apparently knows Nahuatl, a few Hispanistas (Spanish apologists) probably from Hispachan or Mexipol, Spanishboos in general, a Paraguayan guy and two Incaboos. I think because they have special interest in the Americas (precolumbian and conquest period) they flock to threads like this like vultures hungry ready to spam what they know.

>>2742237
>There was 1 black in Cortés expedition and 2
But of course per sjw logic without these 3 niggers the Spanish would have had no success. After all it's not like 3 spaniards could have possibly fulfilled whatever meager support they provided.

>>2742237
Sure this must be why they are depicted in the codices and artwork byt he natives if they were only 3.

>>2742204
>Castillo was about to die when he wrote it.He couldn't have much of an agenda.
His whole work is an alleging for more estates to his descendants in reward for his services. This is literally the basics of the book.
for fucks sake why am i even replying

>>2742245
No need to use racial slurs such as the n-word. /his/ is for intelligent discourse. That kind of language belongs on /b/ or /pol/.

Anyway Spaniards were not even the majority of the Conquistadors. They led it, sure. But it was actually quite multiracial and mutlicultural as they started integrating natives among them.

>>2742271
>natives
>niggers
Pick one. Also doesn't this simply destroy the sjw argument that Whites were le ebil rasist if they worked freely with multiple races? As if some other factors besides race played a role in the behavior of the parties involved?

>>2742194

It's a true testament to how quick /pol/fags and co. are quick to shit on anything nonwhite. I can live with assumptions I have on the Mesoamericans being challenged as long as there is an argument behind it, there is a lot of contradicting information out there regarding this topic. Anyone who just keeps spamming "barbarians :o" "skitskin genetics," "uncivilized," or any of the other retarded claims they love to make without base knowledge needs to fucking go back though.

>>2742271
Conquistadors where all Spanish. The native armies were not conquistadors just mercenaries

>>2742265
>to his descendants in reward for his services.
How is that a political agenda? That is a personal agenda because he was butthurt about how little most soldiers recieved compared to Cortés. Have you even read the book or just the wiki article? It is a pretty neutral book and doesn't paint the natives in a bad tone. It is just a biography. Claiming that it is not a valid source because an "agenda" while the supposed agenda had nothing to do with the natives

>>2742281
My arguments have nothing to do with sjw. Hell I'm rightwing but that the conquistador armies were diverse racially, ethnically and culturally is a fact. And all I'm saying is denying the role of blacks and other races does a disservice. Hernan Cortes must be rolling in his grave.

>>2742326
>Hell I'm rightwing
And i'm a Black female.
Honestly though the role niggers played in the Spanish conquest was marginal at best.

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>>2742281
The Spaniards, on paper, didn't care about race. What people forget about the "Caste System" is that it was mostly the Spaniards autism acting up and trying to classify race in a weird way.

The only "racial laws" they ever implement were the Borbonic laws which made high positions in government and Church in America only available for Spain born Spaniards, the laws that made non Christian Amerindians to have a fixated residence to be controlled and the laws regarding the treatment of non Catholics.

>but Anon, the Spaniards didn't let non Whites to do this and that

That was literal racism and in some case classism, but not a law nor part of the Spanish bureaucratic system. Spain had to issue many laws and statements regarding the treatment of Amerindians and Blacks, Spanish subjects like everybody else, but like people said back then, "the King and the Pope are far away". Spain had to sent all the time judges to treat cases presented by Amerindians because local judges refused to deal with them, the Church had to sent specialists to deal with affairs of Amerindians because of the same reason.

Every time you see someone from back then (before the Borbonic laws) who was Black, Amerindian or Mixed and held a high position on government or whatever, usually the reason was they were somehow related to someone important, so the actual racism of the time which would stop them from reaching high positions had to be contained.

In >muh country, there was this Black guy who became the military leader of the territory, how was he able to become such a high ranking officer? Well, his sister married the son of the governor, and that's just one example.

Regarding the treatment of Amerindians in terms of conquests, the Spaniards usually allied themselves with a local group, alliance they used to conquer and subjugate the rest. These Native allies and their descendants were "equal" to the Spaniards and exempt of the ecomienda system, unlike the "conquered" ones.

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>>2742313
>How is that a political agenda?

>That is a personal agenda because he was butthurt about how little most soldiers recieved compared to Cortés

enjoy your last (You)

>>2742355
Europeans are probably less biased than redskin accounts. Yet continue your bias sperging.

>>2742344
>The only "racial laws" they ever implement were the Borbonic laws which made high positions in government and Church in America only available for Spain born Spaniards, the laws that made non Christian Amerindians to have a fixated residence to be controlled and the laws regarding the treatment of non Catholics.
Wrong.The laws allowed the king to appoint freely positions o power in America so they always chose people that they could trust (all lived in Spain)

>>2742334
>And i'm a Black female.
>A female posts here
Don't buy it.Timestamp or you are just Jamal
>>2742355
How does his bias against Cortés affect his primary source about the Aztecs.Have you even read it or you just looked it up in the wikipedia?

>>2742299
>not conquistadors
>hagan la conquista
>no son conquistadores
jjejejejejejejejeje

>>2742359
I came across this earlier. If the source is to be believed, then they didn't really feel any type of way about the invaders.

>What is most remarkable is that the Aztec account of the Conquest, is almost completely non-judgmental. Although they describe Spanish atrocities in gory detail, it is done factually, with little emotion. Additionally, they give Cortes credit for attempting to negotiate peace with the various tribes he met en-route to Tenochtitlan, the Aztec Capital. Even in Cholula, the single city in which the Spaniards actually massacred most of the inhabitants, the Aztec report of the event includes the possibility that it may have been provoked by falsehoods spread by the Tlaxcalan allies of the Conquistadors. Nowhere in the Aztec accounts of the Conquest do we find any effort to paint the Spaniards as monsters.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/malincheinfo.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/the-aztec-account-of-the-conquest-of-mexico/amp/

>>2742440
>Nowhere in the Aztec accounts of the Conquest do we find any effort to paint the Spaniards as monsters.
That's because the Spanish objectively weren't monsters. It's more dutch propaganda than anything that paints them that way.

>>2742423
She can't post her tits with timestamp on a blue board. But yes some girls browse here. I usually post in the meso threads sometimes with my friends who are female too. It is fun and we are enthusiasts. But we are more fans of the myths.

>>2742438
Only Castillians and Castillianized catholics had the right of settlement and conquest in the new world.Natives where just allies
>>2742459
Never said tits.

> the Spaniards that got them
Fair enough, humans murdering humans.
> some kind of a disease.
I feel sorry for that, nobody really wanted this one. This is a real tragedy.

>>2742459
>it's a "mentally ill anon pretends he is a female" episode

>>2742459
No wonder the redskins threads are shit filled with redskin apologist and anti-White cucks.

>>2742468
Destroy the arguments then.

>>2742468
>TALKING GOOD ABOUT MESOAMERICAN CIV IS ANTI-WHITE

>>2742462
The Aragonese couldn't? I've not heard to the contrary but that still seems odd to me.

>>2742478
They were evil.Cortes did nothing wrong

>>2742480
They could but they had to work for the Castillian crown and Castillianized their surnames just like the Italians or the Greeks that worked under the crown

>>2742488
The Castilian Crown and Aragonese crown were going to be on the same head by the next generation anyway (and it was the Castilian crown that funded this), and the surname adjustment was just a matter of translating the language in those days. It hardly seems like an ethnic or cultural superiority thing like you were implying.

>>2742449
Their actions did have great consequences, and even if things like this were standard procedure then, in the present day there's no reason to diminish the effects it had especially if you like to pride yourself on being "civilized." The Spanish did one thing that led to another. That's a fact. No one should sperg out about that because it is objectively true.

>>2742405
>>2742405
>Wrong.The laws allowed the king to appoint freely positions o power in America so they always chose people that they could trust (all lived in Spain)

Wrong. The point of said law was to stop the appointment of bureaucrats and officers by the Monarchy at will and what they called the "selling of titles" in America by the local governments. The idea was to have the best people in the different government and Church positions and to regain control of the colonies, which some felt they were losing because of the Americans being more identified with their American populations than with Spain.

There was a complete reorganization of the Colonies at every level, being one of the main objectives to stop rebellions, trade and relations between territories and the control of American affairs by the Americans. Like I said, one of the goals of the Borbonic reforms was to stop what some though was the impeding independence of the colonies, ironically, the Bornonic laws is one of the reasons most independence movements started in America.

>>2742501
I never implied that.Even blacks could participate in the expedition as long as they were catholic and had a castillian surname

>>2742481
Good vs evil 5 yr old elemetary school tier worldview. Morality is relative in any case.

>>2742481
>evil
Anon, tell me again about how every other culture on earth was so morally superior, maybe it will be ring true this time~

>>2742462
Some were jews covertly. There's a theory that Columbus himself was jewish too.

>>2742515
>Morality is relative
>>2742526
Aztecs were seen as trash by most natives that weren't Aztecs

>>2742532
> Aztecs were seen as trash by most natives that weren't Aztecs
So were Spanish by most Europeans who weren't Spanish.

>>2742529
Doubtful.Columbus married a noble Portuguese women.He had to come from a noble family for the father to consent.Lately people are expeculating that he was related to a Barcelonese noble house that had a corsair fleet

>>2742502
>especially if you like to pride yourself on being "civilized."
Where does this inferiority complex butthurt come from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend

All this anti-Spanish rhetoric comes from the Protestant enemies of the Spanish. It's literal propaganda.

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>>2742462
>Only Castillians and Castillianized catholics had the right of settlement and conquest in the new world. Natives where just allies

Wrong.

There were lots of Portuguese, French and Italians taking part of the conquest for Spain, and the Native allies with royal or whatever titles were giving an "equal" title, usually in the form of an encomienda, basically, their former Slaves were now their encomendados.

Some of the biggest encomenderos and "nobles" of Spanish America were former Native leaders/royals. This is very interesting because over the years there was a lot of discussion by some Merchant tier Spaniards who wanted their land and titles and argued they shouldn't have them because they were "new Christians" or something like that.

>>2742532
>groups of people have never hated their neighbors before then
Not a good argument, and especially not one free from bias if you want to treat that as special.

>>2742532
And some joined them as allies against the Spaniards, and helped them in their call to arms. That said most natives of Mesoamerica, the region were not their enemies, only those under their dominion and who they were warring with. The Maya had trade relations for example.

>>2742536
>So were Spanish by most Europeans who weren't Spanish.
Well England,the Habsburghs,Genova,the Pope and the Maltese order had cordial relations with Spain at the time.The Aztecs were hated by everyone that wasn't them

>>2742553
>There were lots of Portuguese, French and Italians taking part of the conquest for Spain
Yes and they had to casillianized their names
> Ioánnis Fokás (known as Juan de Fuca) was a Castilian of Greek origin who discovered the strait that bears his name between Vancouver Island and Washington State in 1592. >German-born Nikolaus Federmann, Hispanicised as Nicolás de Federmán, was a conquistador in Venezuela and Colombia.
>The Venetian Sebastiano Caboto was Sebastián Caboto
> Georg von Speyer hispanized as Jorge de la Espira
> Eusebio Francesco Chini Hispanicised as Eusebio Kino
> Wenceslaus Linck was Wenceslao Linck, >Ferdinand Konščak was Fernando Consag
> Amerigo Vespucci was Américo Vespucio
> the Portuguese Aleixo Garcia was known as Alejo García in the Castilian army.

>>2742545
>pushing this Franco era meme.
Yes there was propaganda, but much of it was true. Not that the protestants were any better, but to discard it all off as black legend and lies is just as bad as chicanos who deny human sacrifices took place.

>>2742573
>but to discard it all off as black legend
It seems the redskins themselves didn't even view the Spanish that badly. Don't underestimate the perfidiousness of the Anglo or the dutchcuck. since the idea of the black legend proceeded Franco by decades how could you pin it on him?

>>2742545
>inferiority complex
Where is that even coming from? Lol.

So you're just going to gloss over the fact that the conquests ended badly for the natives? Okay..

>>2742553
The Spaniards had bad an infamous reputation for having bad aims when they shot guns, many of the Italians they brought were for this reason. It's also why guns don't factor as a big reason for their conquest. Even the Aztecs figured out how to counter guns.

>>2742582
>the conquests ended badly for the natives?
Not all natives. Some ended up as better or about the same.

>>2742566
Thats not a "Castillinized name", they simple """"translated""" their names in to other languages. If they were in a French or Italian territory they would "Frenchify" or "Italify" their names.

>example, someone named Francis Johnson would write or say his name is Francisco Juanez when in Hispanic territories

It wasn't something official or special, and the Spaniards did the same if they went place where they spoke another language.

This is actually a problem here in Latin America, people "translating" their names back then. I'm actually trying to find a Portuguese guy who came here back in the 18th century but the idiot "translated" his name differently (or so I think) in the baptize register of his different sons every time so now I have like 8 possible candidate for the identity of the guy Im looking for.

>>2742586
>The Spaniards had bad an infamous reputation for having bad aims when they shot guns
They were the first one using guns instead of cavalry and pikemen in the Italian wars.

>>2742586
Well, guns back then needed to be recharged after being shot (a long process) and they were not that accurate. I don't now about the Italians, but guns were not that decisive back then.

>shoot once
>use the gun as a club or take your sword out

>>2742592
They had to by law. The crown forced them to hispanized their name to be able to work for the crown

>>2740756
No. Respect for other culture means respecting their status as equals under the sun. They might not have guns but they are still perfectly capable civilization making rational decision on their own. In the end the weaker civilization lost out. Not weaker people.

>>2742609
>guns were not that decisive back then.
They ended the pike and chavalry tactics and gun tactics won the Italian wars

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>Archeologists have found remains of 42 children. It is alleged that these remains were sacrificed to Tlaloc (and a few to Ehécatl, Quetzalcoatl and Huitzilopochtli) in the offerings of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan by the Aztecs of pre-Columbian Mexico. Human sacrifice was an everyday activity in Tenochtitlan and children were not exempt. They, in particular, were offered to Tláloc, the god of rain. Bernardino de Sahagún, a religious man left writings that describe such sacrifices, compiled from the first hand accounts of natives who had lived in Tenochtitlan in the times before it fell. Hernán Cortés himself also mentioned child sacrifices in his letters to King Carlos I of Spain.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sacrifice

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>>2742632
The Aztec gods knew their shit too, if only he had listened to them.

>>2742579
Yes, because they were more practical in their thinking. They understood it all as something that happens in war. The Aztecs felt they put up a fight and they lost so it was business as usual. Although it wasn't business as usual as the colonial period was not just concerned with conquering them militarily, but also replacing their culture. They also once conquered tried to play nice, so as to get protection from the crown in upholding their titles. There are several documents were the native elites plead with desperation to hold on to their titles. Eventually the privilages they had were eroded slowly, Tlaxcala was a bit of an exception though. There are also multiple accounts of other natives which are critical of the Spaniards and open rebellion was constant throuhout New Spain which obviously shows discontent. Things didn't suddenly become peaceful, once the Aztecs were conquered and multiple documents attest to the harshness of the colonial period.

>>2742617
The only similar thing I can think of is the forced "Castillization" of the different Spanish peoples, the converted Jews and Muslims and the Natives names, but this was not forced to foreigners and that "translation" of the names was something done by everybody back then.

The Burgos laws treat this regarding the Amerindians, in terms of language and what not, but besides that I can only thing of what Franco MI GENERAL did back then in Spain and what some Latin American governments tried to do with their Amerindian and non Hispanic European populations.

>>2742590
I don't want to come off sounding too anti-white here but
>a few natives getting special treatment out of the sweeping majority that died from old world diseases
>not to mention a good amount of their culture getting replaced or receding
That didn't end well on a large scale and you know it.
>inb4 autistic jump to conclusions
These are just facts. I'm not implying anything else other than they got the short end of the stick.

"Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."

>>2742632
>anything wrong with child sacrifices.
42 is a low number anyway, maybe if they found thousands you'd have an argument.

>>2742656
Thats some British officer in India.

>>2742642
It was forced on foreigners that wanted to work for the crown. They also had to know Spanish to work for the crown

>>2742638
The rebellions were mostly Mayans. The current Mexican state still has problems with them

>>2742644
The official language of new Spain under Phillip the II was Nahuatl. Native culture just receeded due the increased number of mestizos that always favoured Spanish culture and inmigration

>>2742662
>They also had to know Spanish to work for the crown
Isn't this common sense?

>>2740756
>ever feel sorry for the aztecs
Not at all. Cortez was a fucking legend.

>>2742657
Child sacrifice was routine you nig nog

>>2742687
>>2742632
>Archeologists have found remains of 42 children. It is alleged that these remains were sacrificed to Tlaloc (and a few to Ehécatl, Quetzalcoatl and Huitzilopochtli) in the offerings of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan
42 children over a span of 200 years.
The Spanish killed 8000 nobles and their children on the same spot in a couple hours.

>While Hernán Cortés was in Tenochtitlan, he heard about other Spaniards arriving on the coast – Pánfilo de Narváez had come from Cuba with orders to arrest him – and Cortés was forced to leave the city to fight them. During his absence, Moctezuma asked deputy governor Pedro de Alvarado for permission to celebrate Toxcatl (an Aztec festivity in honor of Tezcatlipoca, one of their main gods). But after the festivities had started, Alvarado interrupted the celebration, killing almost everyone present at the festival, men, women, and children alike.
>The Spanish version of the incident claims the conquistadors intervened to prevent a ritual of human sacrifice in the Templo Mayor; the Aztec version says the Spaniards were enticed into action by the gold the Aztecs were wearing, prompting an Aztec rebellion against the orders of Moctezuma. While differing so on Alvarado's specific motive, both accounts are in basic agreement that the celebrants were unarmed and that the massacre was without warning and unprovoked.

>in4 i'm anti-white
no, I just hate when people regard the aztecs as the most evil people ever for their sacrifices

>>2742664
And the Chichimecs (twice), Pueblo, Acaxee.

>>2742678
Yeah but only Castillianized foreigners could work for the crown which is the whole point

>>2742700
>42 children over a span of 200 years.
That we know of pal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s151jVxpx2E

>>2742700
You're retarded, there are numerous accounts of regular child sacrifice under the aztecs(many of them from the aztecs themselves).

>>2740756
I don't feel sorry for the Aztecs, but I just imagine what if the mayan city-states had survived their collapse, the heights they could've reached.

>>2742709
You know how Christopher Columbus "original name" was Cristoforo Colombo but the Spaniards called him Cristonal Colon and the Anglos Christopher Columbus?

That's what "Castillization" and "Anglicization" means, its nothing really official, just something done back then and that the Spaniards actually keep doing. Besides knowing Castillian/Spanish of course, you can't work for them if you can't even understand them.

>>2742682
>>2742674
This

>>2742738
>That's what "Castillization" and "Anglicization" means, its nothing really official, just something done back then and that the Spaniards actually keep doing. Besides knowing Castillian/Spanish of course, you can't work for them if you can't even understand them.
They had to change their names officially.

>>2742738
Columbus is a latinized version of his last name. It was popular to do at the time.

>>2742751
>They had to change their names officially.

No, they didn't, or at least, there is nothing official that says that nor anything as a "official name" back then.

>inb4 they wrote it "Castillinized"

You can wrote your name in whatever the way you want.

>name
>officially

You are implying they had a civil register like the ones used today, with official signatures and shit. Look how the Spaniards back then refer to British or French monarchs/officials, always by the "Hispanic" version of their names (the French and British did the same).

Yes, people used the "Hispanic version" of their names if they were in Spanish territory, but they were not forced to nor had to "officially" change it. Even with Spanish people different names and surnames were used, there wasn't a single or forced way of writing your name like today's.

>>2742754
That's my point.

>>2742725
>You're retarded, there are numerous accounts of regular child sacrifice
just cite them for fucks sake

>>2742782
>civil register
People that worked for the crown were kept track of.And churches had a similar role to civil registers back then

>>2742674
>The official language of new Spain under Phillip the II was Nahuatl.
That fluctuated. Charles II went on to ban all indigenous languages, and so on. Something like five million people in Mexico still speak indigenous languages.

>>2742783
In the month Atlacacauallo of the Aztec calendar (from February 2 to February 21 of the Gregorian Calendar) children and captives were sacrificed to the water deities, Tláloc, Chalchitlicue, and Ehécatl.
In the month Tozoztontli (from March 14 to April 2) children were sacrificed to Coatlicue, Tlaloc, Chalchitlicue, Tona.
In the month Hueytozoztli (from April 3 to April 22) a maid; a boy and a girl were sacrificed to Cintéotl, Chicomecacóatl, Tlaloc and Quetzalcoatl.
In the month Tepeilhuitl (from September 30 to October 19) children and two noble women were sacrificed by extraction of the heart and flaying; ritual cannibalism in honor of Tláloc-Napatecuhtli, Matlalcueye, Xochitécatl, Mayáhuel, Milnáhuatl, Napatecuhtli, Chicomecóatl, Xochiquétzal.
In the month Atemoztli (from November 29 to December 18) children and slaves were sacrificed by decapitation in honor to the Tlaloques.

>Later commentators have compared the accounts of child sacrifice in the Old Testament with similar ones from Greek and Latin sources speaking of the offering of children by fire as sacrifices in the Punic city of Carthage, which was a Phoenician colony. Cleitarchus in his "Scholia" of Plato's Republic mentions the practice:

>“There stands in their midst a bronze statue of Kronos, its hands extended over a bronze brazier, the flames of which engulf the child. When the flames fall upon the body, the limbs contract and the open mouth seems almost to be laughing until the contracted body slips quietly into the brazier. Thus it is that the ‘grin’ is known as ‘sardonic laughter,’ since they die laughing.[25]

>>2742782
>>2742751
>>2742794

Also, I can't find a single source of what you are saying.

- We have the Burgos laws regarding the naming and language of Amerindians

- We have the laws during the Blood cleansing regarding Muslim and Jewish names

- We have the laws regarding the forced Castillization of the non Castillian populations of Spain

We even have Franco's laws, but I can't find a single source regarding what you are implying and I have always been told it was a simple "tradition" back then that even endured to the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century, not only in Spain but Latin America.

>the Church

My point exactly, not a formal nor static type of register. You can find a single person with many different names in the Church's archives and registers.

Anyway, post a source of what you are claiming or at least post the name of the laws which treat that.

>>2742799
>yet only 42 children hve been found in the greatest temple of the empire
yeah, sure and 10 000 children were sacrificed annualy like the bishop in Mexico City said

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>>2742799
the sun ain't gonna feed itself.

I just knew this would devolve into human sacrificing shitposting. Never fails in a Mesoamerica thread.

>>2742810
>Castilian law prohibited foreigners and non-Catholics from settling in the New World. However, not all conquistadors were Castilian. Many foreigners Hispanicised their names and/or converted to Catholicism to serve the Castilian Crown. For example, Ioánnis Fokás (known as Juan de Fuca) was a Castilian of Greek origin who discovered the strait that bears his name between Vancouver Island and Washington State in 1592. German-born Nikolaus Federmann, Hispanicised as Nicolás de Federmán, was a conquistador in Venezuela and Colombia. The Venetian Sebastiano Caboto was Sebastián Caboto, Georg von Speyer hispanized as Jorge de la Espira, Eusebio Francesco Chini Hispanicised as Eusebio Kino, Wenceslaus Linck was Wenceslao Linck, Ferdinand Konščak, was Fernando Consag, Amerigo Vespucci was Américo Vespucio, and the Portuguese Aleixo Garcia was known as Alejo García in the Castilian army.

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>>2742707

The amount of sacrifice they practiced is most likely heavily exaggerated. Yeah they did practice it without a doubt, and yeah they exploited it more than any other Mesoamerican culture, but the annual estimates I've seen that range from the tens to hundreds of thousands is impractical on many different levels for obvious reasons.
Yet people still love to use this as fuel against the Aztecs, as if it's the only instance of brutality in existence.

>>2742818
Its a well-recorded regular practice in aztec sources. You're a nigger.

>>2742861
Some post-conquest sources report that at the re-consecration of Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan in 1487, the Aztecs sacrificed about 80,400 prisoners over the course of four days. This number is considered by Ross Hassig, author of Aztec Warfare, to be an exaggeration. Hassig states "between 10,000 and 80,400 persons" were sacrificed in the ceremony.[38] The higher estimate would average 14 sacrifices per minute during the four-day consecration.

>>2742921
14 per minute is still a lot. I think 4,000 is more do able.

>>2741741
Spanish treated natives better than English did. Not to say either treated them good but English were worst of the bunch.

>>2741737
>implying american civilizations weren't more advanced than europeans in everything except warfare

Including medicine, hygiene, economic system, sciences, and basically everything else. All europeans had was gunpowder. You retards need to read about this shit before talking out of prejudices lol

>>2743036
Bad b8

>>2743036
lmao

>>2743036

nice b8 m8

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>>2743036
Pretty weak bait.

Unless you have some sources to back it up.

>>2743039
More prejudices senpai, tell me how were the europeans more advanced than the Inca Empire

>>2743079
steelworking and sails, for starters

>>2743079
They had boats and were not in the stone age

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>>2743079
Why don't you name a thing in which you think the Inca's were ahead.

>>2743039
>>2743044
>>2743045
>>2743049

>>2727385 >>2727269 >>2731276 >>2731284 >>2731296 >>2731305

>>2743049
Socialism in the Inca Empire achieved a remarkable level of equality. The same for the Mayans. Really the same for most cultures since the people here practiced socialism as the norm.

Showering was almost a ritual everyday thing for most American cultures until the europeans arrived,

Incaic hidraulic systems are still a mistery to these days. Lots of their cities had drain systems or whatever you call it.

Their knowledge of medicinal plants was remarkable, and appropiated by the europeans through centuries.

Their knowledge of astronomy was well beyond those of europeans, and this is probably the easiest thing to find information about.

Just in about everything but warfare, Americans were doing much better.

>>2743102
Vulnerability to Small Pox

>>2743096
>the aztecs and the incas were in the stone age
please just read a book

>>2743085
>>2743096

They didn't really have the necessity to travel that far to fulfill their subjective and objective needs (as did the Colombus for example, as a merchant). There are recent studies indicating contact between North America and South America tho, mostly in the exchange of art between civilizations.

>>2743108
We need to put those in the /pol/ graph format.

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>>2743122
Equality in income isn't as nice when you live in general poverty. A lot of economic history work has been done on old world civilizations but I haven't found much on Native American empires. Though I would hardly guess their gdp and income was above that of third rate old world powers.

Bathing culture is something we can compare but in Europe it differed quite a lot across nations and social classes. Frankly we do not know how often farmer John had a bucket bath but we do know that the more literate urbanites had varying bathing habits with some bathing each day while others only went once a week. What do we know about the showering habbits of the Inca? Did the emperor bath as often as his slaves?

Medicinal plants aren't the whole entire scope of medicine. You also have medical theory, surgery, surgery instruments etc. How good was Aztec eye surgery in 1500 AD?

>>2743122
>Their knowledge of astronomy was well beyond those of europeans, and this is probably the easiest thing to find information about.
>Incaic hidraulic systems are still a mistery to these days. Lots of their cities had drain systems or whatever you call it.
>Just in about everything but warfare, Americans were doing much better.
You are just a retard we wuzer
>>2743130
>please just read a book
They didn't have metalurgy outside of the most basicc stuff they were a stone age civilization
>>2743149
>They didn't really have the necessity to travel that far to fulfill their subjective and objective needs (as did the Colombus for example, as a merchant). There are recent studies indicating contact between North America and South America tho, mostly in the exchange of art between civilizations.
Nice way to say they couldn't
>>2743156
It is just retarded pastas with a hand drawing

>>2743176
How the fuck is it retarded? It has sources. Those are objective facts.

>>2743036
>science
Outside of math and astronomy? Nope.
>medicine
Aztec medical procedures still relied on mysticism for the most part; outside of folk remedies it was pretty basic
>hygiene
Aztec priests didn't bathe after sacrifices and were often caked in blood
>economic system
Europeans had banks, aztecs did not

>>2743176
They were a stone age civilization because you joe nobody decided they were. ok.

>>2743200
The Stone Age was a broad prehistoric period during which stone was widely used to make implements with an edge, a point, or a percussion surface. The period lasted roughly 3.4 million years, and ended between 8700 BCE[1] and 2000 BCE with the advent of metalworking.[2]
noce dubs btw

>>2743191
>They have sources
No they don't they are wikipedia pastas with quotes out of context
>>2743197
>Outside of math and astronomy
How the fuck where they more advanced in astronomy and math?

>>2743207
>Wikipedia quote
>All civilizations came out of the stone age at the same time

>>2743211
And you aren't even providing wikipedia pasta just saying "they were savage shit lmao xD"

>>2743218
The term “Stone Age” was coined in the late 19th century CE by the Danish scholar Christian J. Thomsen, who came up with a framework for the study of the human past, known as the “Three Age System”. The basis of this framework is technological: it revolves around the notion of three successive periods or ages: Stone Age, Bronze Age, and Iron Age, each age being technologically more complex than the one before it. Thomsen came up with this idea after noticing that the artefacts found in archaeological sites displayed regularity in terms of the material that they were made with: stone-made tools were always found in the deepest layers, bronze artefacts in layers on top of the deepest layers, and finally iron-made artefacts were found closest to the surface. This suggested that metal technology developed later than stone-made tools.

>>2743232
>Stone Age, Bronze Age, and Iron Age
Where do you think the Aztecs were?
>>2743223
They were savages.They sacrificed babies and virgins for no reason

>>2743239
>4noraison
I mean, they HAD a reason. It wasn't a very GOOD reason, but still a reason.

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They had some nice jewelry. Shame most of their art was melted down.

>>2743211
Wikipedia lists their sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenochtitlan#References

>>2743246
>they HAD a reason
They were savages.That was the whole reason

>>2743270
Anything we list you just say is pasta and keeps "b-but the sacrifices"
We could show they went to the moon and you'd keep repeating the same shit.

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>>2743211
>How the fuck where they more advanced in astronomy and math?
>>2743176
>You are just a retard we wuzer
>The Classic Maya understood many astronomical phenomena: For example, their estimate of the length of the synodic month being more accurate than Ptolemy's,[2] and their calculation as to the length of the tropical solar year was more accurate than that of the Spanish when the latter first arrived.[3]

>They didn't have metalurgy outside of the most basicc stuff they were a stone age civilization
Agreed on Mesoamericans, but no the Incas. Not sure about Andeans.
Again, the Old World would still be in the Bronze Age if it wasn't for the Mesopotamians.

>It is just retarded pastas with a hand drawing
then just disprove them

>>They have sources
>No they don't they are wikipedia pastas with quotes out of context
which are sourced, the fact that those sources are cited in wikipedia doesn't make it less valid

>>2743197
>Aztec medical procedures still relied on mysticism for the most part
doesn't mean they were not effective or it was just mysticist, their medical methods was both mysticist and empirical.

>Aztec priests didn't bathe after sacrifices
1. Not everyone was a priest
2. Not all priests had the same rituals

>>2743171
Incas were developing succesful brain surgeries before the europeans came. They had a vast knowledge of the human body.

As for their income, any ayllu (political unit of the empire) could develop all the infrastructure they wanted for their villages. Individually each had enough food and a house, as well as their own (if they decided to have) plantation or animals. Their comerce worked on bartering, not sure how that would apply to concepts such as income, they weren't poor, they could't acquire a castle but again, if they could that would imply inequality.

>>2743291
>Again, the Old World would still be in the Bronze Age if it wasn't for the Mesopotamians.
Bullshit conjecture. Civilization would have started in Europe had it not been for the bronze age collapse. I guarantee that if the Mesopotamian hadn't developed advanced metalwork someone else in afro-Eurasia woyld have.

>>2743297
Greeks and Romans actually developed successful brain surgery.

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>>2743297
The only thing I could find on Inca brain surgery was trapenation which:

A: Isn't actual 'brain surgery' but rather the surgical removal of parts of the skull

B: Was practiced around the world.

Did the Inca perform human dissection and the like to understand the human body?

>>2743291
>For example, their estimate of the length of the synodic month being more accurate than Ptolemy's,[2] and their calculation as to the length of the tropical solar year was more accurate than that of the Spanish when the latter first arrived.[
>Being more accuarate in 2 things
>More advanced lmao
Also haven't you thought that them being closer to the Ecuator made things easier for this 2 very specific subjects? Europeans were way more advanced in every subject if you actually studied astronomy or maths you would actually know it

>>2743176
the first stuff is true tho, hard to make people even doubt their prejudices tho

Incas and Aztecs were working with alloys if that's what tou mean, you can go to Peru and visit Incaic museums to see they were well above and beyond "basic stuff".

About the ships, you can't not take into account the context, that's basic. With their technology they totally could, they just didn't have the need because trade was not common enough to have developed significant technology around it.

>>2743345
*redskins way lacking compared to Europe
>nah man they could have they just didn't
*Redskins slightly more advanced in very small and very particular subject
>Hahah those Europeans are sooo stupid

>>2743345
Their knowledge of astronomy wasn't superior to European knowledge.It is just a huge meme.Europeans knew a lot about astronomy and their knowledge developed an actual science.Mayan astronomy developed a meme calendar

>>2743288
>We could show they went to the moon and you'd keep repeating the same shit.
Europeans actually went to the moon.

Face it. Europeans were better than redskins in every subject. From art, architecture, religion, philosophy.

>>2743361
b-but muh worlds gonna end in 2012...

>>2743197
>science
well those are pretty important lol, also physics, biology and chemistry. For physics mainly hidraulics.

>medicine
mysticism was just used for the spiritual, it was part of the healing, the other part being the actual healing with herbolary.

>hygiene
not sure about the particular case of the priests, but americans used to bathe... a lot, depictions of it as a daily thing have been interpreted several times.

>economic system
How is the evolution of capitalism the only way to measure progress in economics? Im talking equality and organization.

>>2743332
Just the fact that they were more accurate in 2 things when it comes to MATH already shows that you calling them savages is fucking retarded.

>"At age 15, Mesoamerican life expectancies were extremely low... For those surviving to age 15, death came around age 28 through 44 on average."

>"Physical and physiological stress seems ubiquitous in Mesoamerica... High rates of healed fractures, severe dental wear, and advanced osteophytosis are common in the earliest extant skeletal material... A tally of 752 adult Mesoamerican skeletons... reveals women with higher rates of facial fractures than men and more joint disease of the wrists... spines of adults of both sexes show severe degenerative wear, averaging 40% or more... males in the north, subsisting from hunting and gathering, averaged 165 cm... southward from Oaxaca, the average adult male stood at 155 cm."


Not really nice, almost worse than the Romans.

>>2743366
>Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar was the basis for a popular belief that a cataclysm would take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 was simply the day that the calendar went to the next b'ak'tun, at Long Count 13.0.0.0.0. The date on which the calendar will go to the next piktun (a complete series of 20 b'ak'tuns), at Long Count 1.0.0.0.0.0, will be on October 13, 4772.

>>2743385
>when it comes to MATH
Pal they where more accuarate in a calculation that relied heavily on the proximity to the Ecuator.You are just being moronic.European mathematics (with arabic influence) of the XVI century are still used nowaydays and it leded to all modern maths

>>2743318
>Bullshit conjecture.
not an argument

>Civilization would have started in Europe had it not been for the bronze age collapse.
still not an argument

>>2743332
>Europeans were way more advanced in every subject
not advanced enough to calculate those 2 irrelevant things it seems

>if you actually studied astronomy or maths you would actually know it
just post sources if it's so obvious

>>2743365
>Europeans were better than redskins in every subject. From art, architecture, religion, philosophy.
This is the kind of thinking that lead Europe to start the deadliest wars in human history. Anyway, just a reminder

>They developed in an area barely bigger than the Iberian Peninsula, whereas the area of cultural exchange of the Old World ranged from Portugal to Japan and from Indonesia to Iceland.
>Didn't met Central Asians and their horses, Mesopotamians and their steel and bulls, Egyptians and their ships, Indians and their mathematics and astronomy, Greeks and their science and thinking, Romans and their engeneering and law, Chinese and their gunpowder and compass.

>>2743413
>>Didn't met Central Asians and their horses, Mesopotamians and their steel and bulls, Egyptians and their ships, Indians and their mathematics and astronomy, Greeks and their science and thinking, Romans and their engeneering and law, Chinese and their gunpowder and compass.

You seem to forget all those people WORKED for those things. They didn't fall out of the sky. It'd be easy to be a square pyramid building savage. To actually take an idea and improve upon it takes skill.

>>2743171
>eye surgery
That wasn't quite successful in Europe until a couple hundred more years down the road.
>>2743176
>wewuzer
No one is even explicitly claiming Aztec ancestry. Almost everything is in the context of /they/. Just because people are bring up a lot of things that indicate they weren't as shit a civilization as you think they were it doesn't mean anyone is wewuzing them.
>>2743197
>mysticism
Their medicinal practices are considered advanced on the grounds that multiple accounts from the Spanish mused on their efficacy. Most of Europe practiced medicine through the four humors theory and similar reasoning for a long time. Direct quotations and other reliable sources were cited in the last thread.

Actually, why the fuck are we going over this again? Some people are exaggerating claims but it's not by a lot. If anyone bothered to look into it certain things would become apparent about their level of advancement.

>>2743372
>physics, biology and chemistry
>citation needed
>medicine
the fact that mysticism was present at ALL means that their medicine was less advanced. Medicine in europe at the time was practiced by physicians who attended medical colleges; aztec healers never had anything nearly as formalized as that.
>equality
Besides the basic schooling, life as an aztec peasent was no better than life as a european peasent.

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>>2743419
>You seem to forget all those people WORKED for those things.
I don't. But somehow you seem to think that wasn't the case with Mesoamericans.

>It'd be easy to be a square pyramid building savage.
Where are the Old World buildings equal to pic related then?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WaLRMq8sgYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE6Fy1s0pfU

>>2743399
>Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī played a significant role in the development of algebra, algorithms, and Hindu-Arabic numerals.

>In Egypt, Abu Kamil extended algebra to the set of irrational numbers, accepting square roots and fourth roots as solutions and coefficients to quadratic equations. He also developed techniques used to solve three non-linear simultaneous equations with three unknown variables. One unique feature of his works was trying to find all the possible solutions to some of his problems, including one where he found 2676 solutions.[120] His works formed an important foundation for the development of algebra and influenced later mathematicians, such as al-Karaji and Fibonacci.

>Bhāskara's work on calculus predates Newton and Leibniz by over half a millennium.[7][8] He is particularly known in the discovery of the principles of differential calculus and its application to astronomical problems and computations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81skara_II#Mathematics

>>2741698
War gives the right of the conquerors to impose any conditions they please upon the vanquished.

Gaius Julius Caesar

>>2743468
>square
Yawn.

>>2743036
Shipbuilding and navigation are pretty big ones

>>2743036
>All europeans had was gunpowder.
And philosophy, theology, architecture, clothing, navigation, shipbuilding, farming, ect.

>>2740756
I'm secretly glad Europe killed the natives, otherwise I would be walking around naked, fishing and hunting.

Too bad some of them survived and nowadays they keep demanding money and land. They got a lot of money for "spiritual damage" cause an airplane crashed near their village, fuck this shit

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The sheer level of hypocrisy and snobbery when it comes to claims that the Mesoamericans were advanced enough is unbelievable. Of course, no one was getting uppity when Wikipedia was cited for child sacrifice earlier to prove that the Aztecs were savages.

>>2742158
>the conquest wouldn't be possible without the black conquistadors
das RITE nigga!

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>>2743582
>And philosophy
So did Mesoamericans, and albeit subjective I find the Aztec one far more interesting.

>theology
The first anthropologist was an European priest that spent 50 years studying Aztec religion and culture.

>architecture
Have to agree on this. Albeit not comparable, Mesoamericans were quite impressive considering their isolation

>clothing
>"On their route they passed through three provinces, that, according to the report of the Spaniards, contained very fine land, many villages and cities, with much scattered population, and buildings equal to any in Spain. They mentioned particularly a house and castle, the latter larger, of greater strength, and better built than the castle of Burgos (the castle of the kings of Spain); and the people of one of these provinces, called Tamazulapa, were better clothed than those of any other we had seen, as it justly appeared to them."
- Hernan Cortes, Second letter of relation to Charles V

>navigation, shipbuilding
Certainly Europeans were one of the best at this, if not the best.

>farming
Well, Aztecs were the only people to develop crops able yield 7 harvests a year.

>>2743631
>Of course, no one was getting uppity when Wikipedia was cited for child sacrifice earlier to prove that the Aztecs were savages
because the same article in wikipedia says that only 42 sacrificed children have been found in the greatest temple of the empire

>The sheer level of hypocrisy and snobbery when it comes to claims that the Mesoamericans were advanced enough is unbelievable.
Is it really that hard to quote the wrong statements and bring up facts to prove them wrong?

no one adressed >>2743108

>>2743680
>that pic
That's a basin lake, it has no outlet to the sea, which means water just collects in it until it evaporates and then gets replaced by new water from the mountains around it.

You realize what that means? It means all the shit and piss that goes into it stays in it...Forever.

That place probably smelled horrible.

>>2743582
>americans didn't have philosophy
>americans didn't have theology, and considering that an important aspect
>american architecture was basic shit
>americans didn't have clothing, or somehow european clothing was better because it hid everything just as some bald dorks interpreted our only God demanded we did

>americans needed navigation and building merchant ships
>americans (Andeans this time) never tamed llamas, alpacas or raised cuyos

>>2743680
>Is it really that hard to quote the wrong statements and bring up facts to prove them wrong?
It's tiresome given the level of small-mindedness. Everyone will keep denying it and finding new ways to discredit it no matter what level of evidence is presented. I can't ever imagine being this closed off to new ideas.

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>>2743427
>That wasn't quite successful in Europe until a couple hundred more years down the road.

It was pioneered by the Romans and routine practice by the time Columbus set foot on the American continent.

>>2743731
I think that person was referring not so much to the style of clothing as its fiber, weave and dye.

>>2743754
The only sources I've been able to find on eye surgery was a method called couching that originated in India and attempted to remove cataracts. It is highly ineffective and causes blindness most often, which is observable by the fact that it is still practiced in certain areas today.

>>2742158
No sane person, past or present, would mate with a nigger.

>>2743777
Not him but couching is significantly older than the Romans being Egyptian or Babylonian in origin. Evidence for extraction from as early as the 10th century also exists.

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>>2742632
>>Human sacrifice was an everyday activity...

>>2740756
Not really, at least not in central America. Their culture was collapsing and they were sacrificing babies, they would have been finished either way.

This thread got me thinking: what were the Mayans doing the Aztec conquest? Would have/could have the Mayans supported the Aztecs?

>>2742837
maybe because they are a barbaric and depraved race?

>the aztecs only sacrificed 40 children!
>uhh they were sacrificing people literally year round
>thanks /pol/ for ruining another thread on my beloved ancestors :(

Sad!

>>2742075
oh hi /pol/

>>2741827
Yeah just ignore how the Spanish destroyed entire cities, burned ancient codices and built churches on top of temple ruins

>>2743903
The Maya civilization had collapsed by the 1521, they were in a rebuilding stage, but the spanish conquest ended it

>>2743903
>what were the Mayans doing the Aztec conquest?
Minding their own business and getting ready to wage a loooooong ass war against the conquistadors once they finally met the Spanish crown because by that point they were wise on Spanish shenanigans.

>>2741687
Not all displays of morality are virtue signalling. Some people just happen to have moral compasses.

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>>2743719
They collected the waste and transported it to the surrounding farmland to be used as fertilizer.

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>>2743913
Because diminishing every exceptional aspect of a culture based on things like violence, which isn't a stranger to any man, is intellectually dishonest. It'd be pretty fucking annoying if threads on Western cultures you liked were constantly raided by people bringing up >>2744006
unpleasant aspects of them in an attempt discount the entire thing as "savagery," would it not be? Believe me, there'd be a wealth of instances to draw from.
No one claimed Aztec ancestry.

>>2743951
Very true, and clearly some people's moral compasses value favoritism more than other's.

>>2744006
>>2744030

Ignore the link. Phone posting.

>>2744006
Even the pee?

And then there's all the shit and piss from the animals.

>>2741698
people like you just make me hate indians for being sore losers

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>>2744077
They filtered urine through gravel and dirt. The whole process was like a more primitive form of how we create biosolids today.

>>2742344
This is utter nonsense.

>>2744103
that guy shouldn't have made such a stupid comparison

>>2742541
The Pedro Madruga theory is the only one that makes sense. A merchant neither form Barcelona nor Genoa could have married Columbus wife nor travelled so freely though european courts.

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>>2744133
It's pretty true here in the Philippines as well. At the end of the day the Spics only cared that your allegiance belongs to the ass that sits on the throne of Spain, and that you're Catholic. Hell, even the Catholic bit can be handwaved considering there were pagan subjects.

And the Casta System was pathetically non-existent here. Theoretically, Spaniards born in Spain are higher up than those born in the colonies, the mestizo mixed breeds, and the natives. But when Spanish people come to the Philippines they tend to be poor colonists, who are looked down upon by colony-born Spaniard, Mestizo, and native elites, who have been land-owning rich cunts ever since the 16th century and tend to be related via marriage.

>>2741837
>muh dams
Why should they have rebuilt Tenochtitlan? The European system was very different from the God Emperor centralization of the Aztecs and Mexico city wasn't the center of the Spanish empire anyway.

>>2743939
No it didn't

>>2743896
Mesoamerica went through about 5 collapses and still kept progressing. Not to mention sacrificing people had been long part of their history.

>>2743582
Native philosophy was pretty good though.

>>2744130
Yeah nah, you glorify your ancestors that lived in a giant toilet.

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>when you mistaken light skin for a god

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I do, Op
Many cities were destroyed, millions worked to death in the mines and ingenios. Even the people that helped the spaniards ended up enslaved once the fight was over.

>>2743509
*tips*
I really really wish your ancestors hadn't emigrated.

>>2744356
Refute that statement with a good source then.

>>2744448
>Many cities were destroyed,
No that's false

At least, according to this idiot
>>2741745
>>2741764
>>2741799
>>2741827

>>2742194
/pol/acks are refugees fleeing the (((reddit))) menance

>>2744133
>>2742344

he is right
People often forget the Americas were conquered by Spanish conquistadores, but their mixed race offspring inherited it (the effective control and explotation of it)
Spaniards would recognize their offspring with natives and allow them to inherit what they had.
the highest positions like Viceroy were reserved to peninsular Spaniards, but the encomenderos were very often mixed race, especially in the 1500s.
Because they had economic power, their offspring gradually whitened through the centuries from intermarriage with new spanish colonists.

the same happened in Brazil in the 1500s and 1600s, most of the population was made of mestizos produced by Portuguse men being Polygamic with Tupi natives (they allied themselves with native tribes, and they would give women to Portuguese men in order to become the same family)
the normal language of all Brazil was Tupi, and that only changed in the 1700s when many Portuguese emmigrated to Brazil due to the discovery of gold.

Paraguay, which is a mestizo country that is 100% Spanish Guarani bilingual, is a good reflection of how Brazil was in the 1500s and 1600s outside of the sugar plantations in the far north.

Mixed race people in Spanish America if they had money could pretty much buy their whiteness. And travelers who visited Latin America always mentioned the criollos werent 100% white looking, and that you could see it in how they didnt have as much beard growth as Spaniards for example.

>>2741837
>Spanish engineering

>>2744835
Why are Spanish moomins so hairy? Is it the Arab genes?

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>>2741799
0/10

Sucer sel

>>2741799
Highly ironic since, there are records of spaniards being amazed by how civilized the aztecs were.

>>2744572
I'm literally looking at it, it has no outlet. It's a basin lake, everything stays in it, at some point once a year usually during the summer the water level drops and kills a bunch of the fish stinking the surrounding area up. All the shit flows into it and does not leave so unless they're collecting *all* the crap from *every* source and *everyone* is pissing into gravel they're logically and forcibly living in the middle of a giant non cycling toilet.

>>2745016
>in the middle of a giant non cycling toilet.


Nut hey, given the complete lack of germ theory at the time and the fact that continuous access to water at all was equated to hygiene I'm not surprised no one viewed this as a negative.

And just think of the mosquito population, must have been crazy. All that stagnant lake water.

>>2743719
Actually their feces wouldn't smell that bad at all given their diet.

>The use ofdung to signify that which is bad or undesirable
is widespread in the Euro-American world, and dates
back to the entrenchment of Christianity. In large part,
however, such symbolism has been confined, as in Germany,
to the realm of popular, as opposed to elite, culture. In the
arena of institutionalized religion, in particular, excrement,
like sex, has been traditionally taboo. When mention of it
does surface in Christian discourse, it predictably signifies the opposite of sacred. Dante, for example, vividly describes
the flatterers he encountered in the eighth circle of Hell as "a
people dipped in excrement that seemed as it had flowed from
human privies."3 In Western culture today, "Holy Shit" functions
as an exclamation of surprise or dismay precisely because
it has no reference beyond itself; its power as a profanity
derives from the paradox embedded in it. 4 For us, excrement
is never divine.

>This was not the case, however, in pre-Hispanic Mexico,
where the human body and its products were not perceived
as separate from and antithetical to the "mind," social
values, and the supernatural-and where metaphor tended
to be replaced by metonym." There excrement was conceived
ofas powerful and ambivalent, capable both ofsignifying and
causing not just bad , but good as well. For this reason,
excrement played an important role in certain visual and
verbal discourses that helped the Mexicans to structure their
relations to each other and to the simultaneously physical and
spiritual world in which they lived. In ancient Mexico the
concept of divine excrement was not paradoxical, and excrement
could be, indeed, divine.

>>2745225
Cont.

>The Aztecs had another word for soil that had been fertilized with human excrement: tlalauiyac P: Herbert Harvey suggests that this word alludes to the Aztec practice of collecting human excrement for use as fertilizer from public privies set up along the major roads.!? It is even possible that Tlazolteotl was a patroness of this fertilizer industry.Jf Human excrement was also used in salt production as well as tanning, however, and it is thus significant that Sullivan relates Tlazolteotl to the salt goddess, Uixtociuatl.I? The close cognitive relation of urine to excrement is evident in the almanacs under discussion where several of the defecating figures are simultaneously urinating (fig. 3). Noting that urine, itself a metaphor for impurity, is salty, Sullivan suggests that Uixtociuatl represented urine as well.20 Since the state also collected urine, which was used as a mordant in dyeing, it is not surprising that there was a separate Nahuatl word for soil that had been uri nated upon (axixtlalli). 21 Among the Mixe today myths often represent urination as a fertilizing act, comparing it to water or rainfall. 22

>The job of collecting body wastes for fertilizer may not have been as unpleasant as we might think, since the Aztec diet, based largely on corn and amaranth, did not contain high quantities of the amino acids that cause fecal odor: see Harvey. "Public Health. - 164. 165 n. 6.

>>2741729
Ah yes, the poor Spaniards, Portuguese, British, and French people who had to suffer under Turkish rule.

>>2741840
Ah yes burning "witches" was much more civilized.

>>2742158
>obvious bait
>5 replies

oh /his/ why?

>>2744835
Tons of times Viceroyalties were rulled by Americans

not really because it wasnt the spainards
it was the tribes they subdued
was mainly a native vs native kinda thing

shouldnt have trusted the white devil

>>2740756

Not really, because they were from a bicameral civilization and their minds couldn't really comprehend the awfulness of their situation. They were like animals basically - they could suffer, but not really comprehend their suffering intellectually.

>>2744690
The only refugees I would accept, and I disagree with their ideas. Fuck Reddit.

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>On January 22, 1536, along with Bernhard Krechting and Bernhard Knipperdolling, he was tortured and then executed. Each of the three was attached to a pole by an iron spiked collar and his body ripped with red-hot tongs for the space of an hour. After Knipperdolling saw the process of torturing John of Leiden, he attempted to kill himself with the collar, using it to choke himself. After that the executioner tied him to the stake to make it impossible for him to kill himself. After the burning, their tongues were pulled out with tongs before each was killed with a burning dagger thrust through the heart. The bodies were placed in three iron baskets and hung from the steeple of St. Lambert's Church and the remains left to rot. About fifty years later the bones were removed, but the baskets remain.

>>2744975
did you know their shit didn't stink either? It's true!

>>2741698
t. Chief Cumming Cock

>feel sorry for red savages
I only feel sorry more Spanish women didn't get sent to the colonies so the Spaniard/ didn't need to resort to mass breeding with those squaws.

>>2746498
Maybe you just have a bad diet

>>2744663
Read the thread, redshit. Aztecs talk about how decent and normal the Spanish are.

>>2746513
nope I am of pure aztec and mayan blood, therefore my shit smells like a bed of flowers

>>2746519
It's not about the blood. It's what you eat, I can make a meal plan for you if you'd like.

>>2746528
yes please share this amazing secret meal plan that the exalted and progressive aztecs used to make their shit not smell, and also perfectly healthy to swim in and drink from!

>>2746498
Must have been a lot of corn kernels floating around the water of Tenochtitlan.

>>2745262 #
>what is the moorish invasion of Iberia
Kys

>>2746562
Colonial rule under Moors > Colonial rule under Spain.

>>2746580
Based on what exactly

>>2746550
you say shit water, I say leftovers. If only we could be so progressive and forward thinking in the modern era. Not only were they noble, progressive and highly advanced, but their shit didn't even stink. That is, until those barbarians from Spain came and engaged in a ruthless and purposeful campaign of murder and societal regression. Now of course, their shit stinks just like every other animal on the planet. But it wasn't always so! Such a culture is worthy of deep thought and study, all peoples should seek to emulate their society!

>>2744356
>you glorify your ancestors that lived in a giant toilet
>>2743913
>because they are a barbaric and depraved race?
>>the aztecs only sacrificed 40 children!
the barbarians even used to eat chocolate with spicy stuff!
fucking strawmen

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>>2746599
>"Moctezuma possessed out of the city as well as within, numerous villas, each of which had its peculiar sources of amusement, and all were constructed in the best possible manner for the use of a great prince and lord. Within the city his palaces were so wonderful that it is hardly possible to describe their beauty and extent ; I can only say that in Spain there is nothing equal to them."

>"The city of Iztapalapa contains twelve or fifteen thousand houses; it is situated on the shore of a large salt lake, one-half of it being built upon the water, and one half on terra firma. The governor or chief of the city has several new houses, which, although they are not yet finished, are equal to the better class of houses in Spain –being large and well constructed, in the stone work, the carpentry, the floors, and the various appendages necessary to render a house complete, excepting the reliefs and other rich work usual in Spanish houses. There are also many upper and lower rooms–cool gardens, abounding in trees and odoriferous flowers; also pools of fresh water, well constructed, with stairs leading to the bottom."

>"There is also a very extensive kitchen garden attached to the house, and over it a belvidere with beautiful corridors and halls; and within the garden a large square pond of fresh water, having its walls formed of handsome hewn stone; and adjacent to it there is a promenade, consisting of a tiled pavement so broad that four persons can walk on it abreast, and four hundred paces square, or sixteen hundred paces round; enclosed on one side towards the wall of the garden by canes, intermingled with vergas, and on the other side by shrubs and sweet-scented plants. The pond contains a great variety of fish and water-fowl, as wild ducks, teal, and others so numerous that they often cover the surface of the water."
- Hernan Cortes, Second letter of relation to Charles V

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>>2746651
>"Our astonishment was indeed raised to the highest pitch, and we could not help remarking to each other, that all these buildings resembled the fairy castles we read of in Amadis de Gaul; so high, majestic, and splendid did the temples, towers, and houses of the town, all built of massive stone and lime, rise up out of the midst of the lake. Indeed, many of our men asked if what they saw was a mere dream. And the reader must not feel surprised at the manner in which I have expressed myself, for it is impossible to speak coolly of things which we had never seen nor heard of, nor even could have dreamt of, beforehand."

>"When we approached near to Iztapalapan, two other caziques came out in great pomp to receive us: one was the prince of Cuitlahuac, and the other of Cojohuacan; both were near relatives of Motecusuma. We now entered the town of Iztapalapan, where we were indeed quartered in palaces, of large dimensions, surrounded by spacious courts, and built of hewn stone, cedar and other sweet-scented wood. All the apartments were hung round with cotton cloths."

>"After we had seen all this, we paid a visit to the gardens adjoining these palaces, which were really astonishing, and I could not gratify my desire too much by walking about in them and contemplating the numbers of trees which spread around the most delicious odours; the rose bushes, the different flower beds, and the fruit trees which stood along the paths. There was likewise a basin of sweet water, which was connected with the lake by means of a small canal. It was constructed of stone of various colours, and decorated with numerous figures, and was wide enough to hold their largest canoes."

>>2746666
>"In this basin various kinds of water-fowls were swimming up and down, and everything was so charming and beautiful that we could find no words to express our astonishment. Indeed I do not believe a country was ever discovered which was equal in splendour to this; for Peru was not known at that time. But, at the present moment, there is not a vestige of all this remaining, and not a stone of this beautiful town is now standing."

>"(About Tlatelolco) After we had sufficiently gazed upon this magnificent picture, we again turned our eyes toward the great market, and beheld the vast numbers of buyers and sellers who thronged there. The bustle and noise occasioned by this multitude of human beings was so great that it could be heard at a distance of more than four miles. Some of our men, who had been at Constantinople and Rome, and travelled through the whole of Italy, said that they never had seen a market-place of such large dimensions, or which was so well regulated, or so crowded with people as this one at Mexico."

- Bernal Díaz del Castillo, True History of the Conquest of the New Spain Chapters LXXXVII and XCII

>>2740756
Not really. Tribe gets conquered by bigger tribe called Spain.

>>2746540
You are going to need the following:

Corn tortillas (you need about 4 daily)
Beans
Amaranth
Tomatoes
Nopal (cactus)
Insects (maguey worms, chapulines)
Sun dried cheese algea (treats)
Chiles (be sure to get a variety)
Avocados
Manioc
Squash
Peanuts
Cashew with the fruit itself too.
Guavas
Chia seeds
Pineapple
Honey

As occassional treats you can have fish, turkey meat, rabbit meat, dog meat, ducks.

Confirm first that you have these or can get these things. The other items are pretty basic.

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Can anyone confirm the whiteness of the arabs that this source claims?
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140428192426-47009099-how-would-sahabah-look-by-their-physical-appearances

Thanks

>>2746706
Where there any rabbits or dogs in Mexico before the spaiards?

>>2746720
Yes. Cortes even commented that dog meat was quite tasty.

>>2741788
All I'm saying is that yes Mexico is shitty and corrupt now, but it's still christian and at least nominally democratic. Aztec mexico would not be like that most likely.

>>2746886
It'd be more of a republic, given that they elected their rulers among a group of nobles.

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>tfw whitey rejects every fact that doesn't fit in its world kangdom due to cognitive dissonance

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>>2743518
>lol citation neede-
>[facts]

>3hours later
>"lol why are there so many butthurt wewuzers"
Literally ebin.

>>2746976
Even with global trade and inevitable cultural exchange?