Are Mongols the scariest army that ever existed in human history?

>>2732067
Nukes are scarier

They were beaten with reasonable regularity. They weren't anything special.

The huns were stronger

>>2732067
The only thing special about the mongols where their generals, and heavy cavalry focus not bows that's it
>be uppity peasant
>felled by a single arrow
>die cursing the Great Khan
>within 10 years his empire collapses because of overtaxation and famine

>>2732067

I agree they were scary because they didn't shy away from genocide and brutality on a scale rarely or not seen before them. However, their successes depended on their ability to use their horses well. And horses can't be used well without pastures. Which is they lost to Mamluk Egypt. Also, laying seige wasn't their strong point.

>>2732067
bet indoeuropeans invading europe were no better in genociding, hell we all even speak their language now

>>2732084
someone's been listening to HH again

>>2732067
>With better, centralized leadership they could have annihilated the entire western (and eastern) civilization and set the entire world back 800 years
No they couldn't have.

>>2732083
This.

>>2732067
>huge
Nigger, they were small by all means. Probably you perceive them as big is because steppe horses are not bred for size and strength. And hence are undersized.

I'd imagine the Werhmacht or Red army would be scarier. The mongols would slaughtered your village, the Russians and Germans would shell your village, drive through with giant war machines, and THEN they'd kill your village.

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>>2732067
Mongols were literally the one hit wonder of the Steppe Peoples.

Others like the Turkics and Jurchens had more time under the sun than they did.

>>2732128
>Also, laying seige wasn't their strong point.
But they got pretty fucking good at it.

>>2732067
They only succeeded at "conquering" vast stretches of uninhabited wilderness and a few tiny villages along the way. Any time they actually encountered proper civilization they got assfucked and had to retreat.

Double the size of the Roman Empire, a fifteenth of the staying power. Frankly, if I saw a giant legion of highly trained, impeccably armed Roman soldiers marching towards me, I'd be shitting far more.

>>2733731
They never got good at it. Most mongol siege engineers were Chinese.

>>2733723
The Mongol successor empires were fucking things up for a couple hundred years afterwards.

>>2733751
Thats my point they assimilated very well.

>>2732067
>destroyed everything in their wake
I mean, unless it was a castle.
Mongols have a pretty embarrassing track record when it came to besieging European castles. Even the wooden ones

Scariest army ever is easily the Imperial Japanese army in WW2. Those fuckers were insane.

>>2733723
>Mongols were literally the one hit wonder of the Steppe Peoples.
That title goes to the huns or avars.

>>2733731
They literally couldn't take a single castle in Hungary despite Hungary being militarily backwards and having total control of the country. Sieges were not their strong point.

>>2733812
>Even the wooden ones
I literally don't know a single wooden fortification in Europe they didn't shit all over. They had zero issue taking those.

>>2733823
fair enough. I jumped the gun on the wooden castles.
Point still stands though. They were absolutely worthless when it came to besieging stone castles or even towns with stone walls.
Laughably ineffective is a fucking compliment considering how poorly they performed in their second invasion of Hungary

>>2733736
Is that why they took over China and Persia?

>>2733888
They took over china with the help of masses of Chinese soldiers, and Persia had issue with having shitty defenses and internal betrayal.

He's exaggerating just how bad at it they were, but the mongols avoided sieges if at all possible.

People who live their lives nomadically on horseback should not be expected to perform very well when forced to fight on foot against fortifications. Literally no aspect of their lives or military culture prepares them for it.

>>2733911

Everyone avoided sieges, because they took fucking forever and causes deaths to inglorious causes, like dysentery.

That's the main reasons the mongols cultivated the "oppose us and everyone you know dies a horrible death" reputation.

When they had to, the Mongols were not bad at sieges at all, espically after they got Chinese siege engineers and gunpowder.

>>2732083
Entirely depends on the armies and what era. Sure on small scales they did but under Genghis and his generals they rarely lost anything they put their mind to. Any "defeats" were normally draw stalemates that ended worse for the otherside or were diversions.

>>2732084

>the huns

Go back to Hungary where you and they belong. They were shit in open combat and got btfo by a dying Rome.

>>2733911
>avoided seiges
>burned Baghdad to the ground
>raped Beijing
>knocked down castles in Russia over and over
>kay

Are Mapuches the mongols of america

>>2734026
>When they had to, the Mongols were not bad at sieges at all, espically after they got Chinese siege engineers and gunpowder
They LITERALLY could not take a single stone fortification in hungary.

Chinese siege engineers, despite what you may think, were not at the peak of that art.

>>2734076
>russia
>castles
they literally didn't have a single stone castle at the time. The fucking kremlin of novgorod was wood.

>baghdad
Was taken with the help of 40,000 Armenian infantry, along with Georgians. There's a reason they brought them, anon. They weren't mongols.

>raped Beijing
By starving it into submission, not storming it.
Even then, jin leaders started defecting to the mongols with their soldiers literally as soon as the invasion began. Northern china was taken by a coalition effort of mongols, a lot of traitorous jin, AND the song actively helping them crush their rivals.

Alexander would have btfo the Mongols with period implements

>>2734148
Alexander would almost certainly have gotten himself killed simply by virtue of being Alexander.

The companions were very heavily armored and armored by the standards of his day, and skirmish cavalry was far less effective withotu stirrups.

Mongols would fucking crush them, and his penchant for leading from the front, and aggressive maneuvers with his cavalry, means he would die. Likely rapidly.


The diadochi, however? Real chance of winning. Once.

>>2734160

Nah pham elephants would have made Mongol cavalry ineffective and Alexander would have used the same anvil-hammer strategy in a novel way. Nobody in the Mongol army had his tactical brilliance.

One botched skirmish and he has Mongol technology at his disposal including contemporary saddles.

Companions wore linen and plate armor but it could be traded for something lighter. Alexander would dominate a pitched battle. Mongols would be better off engaging him in their usual hit and run skirmishes.

>>2734137
>men fighting for the mongols don't count. Kay.

>>2734137
>I'm a fucking retard the post

>>2734173
Mongols had actual heavy bows unlike persia Im not sure about this. Itd be close but Im not so sure.

>>2732084
>beaten by 300s era Roman Empire
Laughing at the Huns' life rn desu

>>2734191

They dealt with heavy bows against the Indian tribes, Alexander was nearly killed by one. Alexander had portable crossbow catapults that could put a bronze bolt through shield, chestplate and rider at 500 yards

>>2734173
You are fucking stupid.
>One botched skirmish and he has Mongol technology at his disposal including contemporary saddles.
They literally no guarantee they'd use them.

Nor would they instantly understand and adopt the charge with couched lances.


>Nah pham elephants would have made Mongol cavalry ineffective and
Elephants are incredily unreliable, and readily countered. Mostly by fucking shooting them. Something mongols are predisposed to.

>Alexander would have used the same anvil-hammer strategy in a novel way.

How, exactly, is he going to anchor them?

These are not Scythians. They have seen and foguht heavy infantry before, they will not engage the phalanx at all. Nor are they likely to fall for simple bait tactics, as, unlike the one group of steppe warriors Alexander fought, they are not culturally incapable of grasping the idea.


Alexander has literally no way to pin the mongols in place unless they completely fuck up.


>Companions wore linen and plate armor but it could be traded for something lighter.

They literally have no other armor available to them. You can wear a breastplate, leather, linen, or nothing. That is the extent of what they knew existed, and could manufacture.

Mongol heavy horse is wearing iron lameller with greater coverage, horse armor, has maces, and longer, better swords, and isn't forced to use their lances in two hands.

On top of that, their archers can stand in the saddle. This is a significant fucking advantage.

Literally nothing about his army or tactics will work here. His skirmishers are outraged. His infantry won't be able to engage. His cavalry are facing better armed and armored men who are born into the saddle, and will die.

>>2734176
Armenians and georgians are not mongols.

There's also the simple fact that Baghdad pissed away most of its defenders in open battle rather than holding them behind the walls.

>>2734218
>Alexander had portable crossbow catapults
Not enough to matter.

>>2734137

You are mixing up the first and second mongol invasion a bit.

The first time around, the Mongols did pretty well at sieges. They took a number of fortified location, but still more remained throughout the sieges. Note that the first invasion didn't last very long. Mohi was in April, where the Hungarian field army was destroyed and opened up the way to the rest of Hungary. Ögedei Khan died in December, which caused the Mongols to return to Mongolia to elect the next Khan. 7 months is not a long time for sieges, most fortresses would have been under siege for only a fraction of that time period.

The second time around, the invasion was by the Golden Horde, and the Golden Horde did not have the same access to heavy equipment and siege expertise that the united Mongols did.

>>2733707
Hey retard he was referring to the size of the armies not the fucking horses themselves

>>2734235

Typical Mongolboo

Alexander had enough practice chasing barbarians through the badlands in Persia and India. If he couldn't force a pitched battle then he'd just use their own bait and run tactics against them. Set up a calvary ambush or an encircling maneuver. Mongols archers were ineffective when their horses didn't have room to run.

If some towelhead nobody Mamluk commander could figure it out then there's no question that Alexander would have as well. Mongols have no capacity to adapt their tactics. It's the same thing every time they take the field, except in the case of sieges, where they immediately shit the bed.

Also Khan wouldn't dare set foot on the same battle ground with Alexander and expose himself to single combat because he would get annihilated.

>>2734311

> Bait and Run the mongols

You better be this retarded on purpose.

>>2734311
You just sound like a retard.

>hur dur mongols were just a barbarian horde dumb and gay

Any General under Genghis Khan or multiple generations after would have btfo of Alexander. You haven't even done any research if you think they never change tactics. Literally read a fucking book.

>>2734336

Lol try reading something about Alexander other than the wiki page senpai. He dealt with far worse than these steppniggers. Look what happened to Poros.

Khan as a solider wasn't fit to hold Alexander's shortsword. As a general, who knows what Khan could do. He delegated all the heavy responsibilities.

>>2734259
>The first time around, the Mongols did pretty well at sieges. They took a number of fortified location, but still more remained throughout the sieges.
THEY LITERALLY TOOK ZERO STONE FORTIFICATIONS IN THE FIRST INVASION.

ZERO. NONE. LESS THAN ONE.

>7 months is not a long time for sieges
IT IS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING ASSAULT THEM.

>>2734311
>Mongolboo
No, you're just a hero worhsipping retard.


>Alexander had enough practice chasing barbarians through the badlands in Persia and India.
Are you fucking high? Literally nothing he fought had any similarity to the mongol way of war, except for Jaxartes.

The people at Jaxartes lost becuase they, as a culture, literally couldn't conceive of sacrificing a small unit to achieve victory.

Mongols had no issue with this.

>Also Khan wouldn't dare set foot on the same battle ground with Alexander and expose himself to single combat because he would get annihilated.
They wouldn't expose themselves to single combat because they were busy leading the battle.

>>2732067
>close to conquering the entire known world

They couldnt even conquer the fukn japs. lol. Not too scary in my book.

>Are Mongols the scariest army that ever existed in human history?

No that would be the Aztecs

>>2734356
> poros
> punjab
> steppes

Niggaopoulos, fuck back off to /int/ so you can shitpost about turks some more.

Give Alexander the same tech and tools that the Mongols have and in 18 months he'd wipe them out. That's the bottom line. Two major engagements and he'd have caught up on 1000 years of strategic advances.

Hourly reminder that basement dwelling autists worship the Mongols because of their cowardly low risk tactics and penchant for brutally raping the conquered. This is their idea of masculinity.

>>2734361

> IT IS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING ASSAULT THEM.

There's no fucking reason to assaulting castles unless you have an overwhelming advantage in numbers like the Turks did in 1453, or there's a pressing imperative to win the siege now or get pincer'd by reinforcements.

The mongols didn't have the bodies, since they were thousands of kilometers from their home. What they did have was time, after having destroyed the Hungarian and Polish field armies. What they didn't expect was Ögedei dying the middle of the campaign and everyone being recalled back to Mongolia.

Reminder that the Mongols took 50 years to conquer the Song remnants, because sieges take fucking forever.

>>2734390
Whatever Greekboo they Greek were literally the biggest pussies in history whos only tactic was a fucking shield wall and when it didnt work the plan was to do it more. They were fucking autistic there is a reason it took like 3 legions to conquer that shit stain peninsula.

>>2734356
Indians lol tell me more about their glorious military history. Might as well be fighting Austrialian aboriginals.

>>2734409
>both of these posts
Why is /his/ full of such shitty b8 now

>>2732067
No.

As long as you surrendered they were merciful to you. And they were religiously tolerant.

>>2734421
Please go.

>>2734356
Nigga you gay

>>2734441
Nothing you wrote was true. If you're gonna shitpost go on /b/ or something

>>2734409

Nigga the Greeks invented ancient warfare gtfo with your 6th grade education

>>2732067
No, that would be the Nazis.
Not only did they have scary technologies but they would put you in camps and experiment with you.

>>2734463

Well they've got one thing in common with the Mongols, and that's a heavy reliance on horses.

In the 20th century.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_DnRn9hyFU

realistically I'd say shit like the viet cong. I'd be scared shitless humping through the woods after my buddy had fallen into a bamboo spike trap. fuck that

meme answer: still Huns desu. They laid waste to most of Italy and literally erased a city from the map.

>>2734400
I don't think you get it. Assaults were made. They failed.

Klis in particular was an abject failure, and they worked as hard as they could to take the citadel as esztergom. They failed, miserably.

>What they didn't expect was Ögedei dying the middle of the campaign and everyone being recalled back to Mongolia.
Fuck off with that idiocy.

Rashid al-din directly contradicts the idea that they even knew he was dead when they left, and they didn't even return directly to Mongolia, spending a full year in pursuit of cuman rebels.

On top of that, BATU FUCKING REFUSED TO GO TO THE KURULTAI. FOR. YEARS.


>The mongols didn't have the bodies, since they were thousands of kilometers from their home.
They had tens of thousands of men and actively tried to take fortresses. They failed. Theory crafting is irrelevant.

>>2734362
that's because when they tried, the hurricane killed them all.
besides why even bother with it? japan is fucking useless and isolated.

>>2734476
>using horses in WWII more than WWI
>this was modern war

>>2735318
>why even bother conquering all this steppe that doesn't even have villages you can tax

>>2734311

>he thinks generals went out and found each other to duel 1 v 1
>because real battles are litterally just Warhammer but with fewer wizards

>>2732067

they werent a savage horde, they were insanely disciplined and everithing was under the cruelest forms of controll, few punishents they implemented on their own people involved the human in question surviving in one piece

so to them the cruety and brutality with which they treated other populations wasnt even a ethical problem, thats just how the mongol culture functioned, it made sense to them and corresponded to how reality works in general, they simply didnt know different

>im stronger than you i tell you what to do you are kill
>you disobey, you must want to start shit
>i break your arm cause mercifull, now you obey or be kill
>you dissobey me again, you must be retarded beyond salvation
>i kill you your family and your dog, and level all your shit to the ground
>much pasture now

basicaly...

>>2732067
christianity - pot religion
mongols - pot nation
america - pot nation
basically anything steppe last 5000-50000 years, pot civilisation

cannabis is power mang, but only to the user

>>2735329
conquering steppe with nomadic people is way easier than attempting to launch an amphibious invasion in 13th century

>>2734376
>an army with weapons so shit they had to adopt their tactics to taking prisoners for sacrifice instead of killing
A bunch of niggas wearin human skin and running at you beating drums would be pretty scary tho

>>2735326
Typical fucking retarded ameriboo. What the fuck else were the german infantry gonna eat when their supply lines broke down? The trucks you wanna replace the horses with?

>>2735330
The skaven would rape the mongols. This is 100% fact.

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>>Mongols were fucking savages hey hey Jamie bring up that thing about Ghengis Kahn

>>2732067
>savage
>destroyed everything
>if you resist
>close to conquering the entire known world

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>>2732067
Conquistadors were pretty scary due to the gap in tech mainly. Imagine if you had to fight against people who were thousands of years ahead of you in technology.

>>2733723
>one hit wonder
So like the Greek empire of Alexander the "Great"

>>2736981
Pikes are not necessarily advance tech

>>2737026
The conquistadors didn't bring pikes. Cortez's army was like 80% Rodeleros and 20% arquebusiers.

>>2736981
That really doesn't matter when horses are not on the diet they are used to, and the Conquistadors lack supplies needed to use cannons and guns more than once.

Tech gap is good for Conquistadors, because it enables the armored troops to survive longer. But that wouldn't matter if they just got rushed and outnumbered.

This is the same conquistadors where many changed their secondary weapons to native versions, because euro weapons had no gains against such primitive armor.

>>2737247
There's literally no source for any of your idiocy.

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This

>>2737026
1st off, they are when compared to stone weapons. 2nd off, they had guns and cannons.

>>2734235
Lol dude you said literally 4 times in there. Clean yo self up boo

>>2733748
That Implies that the Mongols were not highly trained and immensely organized. If anything the Mongols tactics displayed more discipline than most roman tactics which relied on equipment and superior numbers heavily.

>>2733736
O ya vast stretches of uninhabited wilderness. That contained a quarter of the worlds population.

>>2734383
Why? while Alexander was clearly an amazing General he got his army from his dad he didnt invent shit. Also how they fuck would he ever force the mongols into a pitched battle not of their choosing? He could never catch them or besiege them. They have no home, and no force was ever as mobile over long distances as them till modern times.

>>2733823
the Huns were a bigger theat to Europe than the mongols ever were. Attila was all up in italy threatening to burn europe to the ground having the Pope literally suck his dick to make him leave, the mongols never got past eastern europe.

But clearly the mongols accomplished more, just not in europe.

>>2734383
you don't know shit, you can't just train a mongol horsearcher, that shit is a lifestyle, the sedentary horsearcher could never compete, civilized society's only hope is to cover themselves in armor and hope they can catch them, and the problem with horsearchers is that it's practically impossible to eliminate them completely since they can easily run away and regroup, egyptians and Europeans might have been able to push them back with massive losses, but they didnt destroy the mongol armies because you can never really massacre and army like that. In any case they were small forces in comparison to what the mongols could rally if they didn't have to deal with subduing china, them your little one hit wonder suicide charges with heavy cavalry probably wouldn't work when it's 200k horsearcher swarming them instead of 20-80k

>>2734195
Romans+Visigoths
And the Huns beaten Rome multiple occasions in the Balkans

>>2734456
>inventing warfare

Next you're going to tell me they invented sex or eating.

>>2732067
Why did they get ass raped by the Nips twice then?

>>2734463

you must be a jew.

>>2734512
>BATU

Subutai's division won the battle while Batu wanted to retreat.

>>2732083
They didnt need to win on the battlefield to BTFO most agrarian societies. The destruction of agricultural infrastructure, turning farmland into pasture, and the driving off the peasantry was more than enough to send the Iranians back to the Neolithic.