Kazakhstan is switching from Cyrillic to Latin in the next y

Cиpилик из мop cyy̆тд тyy̆ paйтинг инглиш, мићинкc

>>2725654
Caм дypaк.

Fun fact, buddhist monks introduced Brahmic scripts to Japan long before the advent of kanji and kana.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddha%E1%B9%83_script
They need to bring bonji back

I would unironically like to revive either Old English and Middle English or at least revert the great vowel shift. Jews were able to revive hebrew so why can't somebody else with another language?

China should have upgraded to Pinyin during the Cultural Revolution.

If you already have society shut down for maintenance, you may as well do some spring cleaning with the language.

>>2725633
>Kazakhstan is switching from Cyrillic to Latin

Good for them

>>2725676

I'd guess it's reviving an unused language vs. modifying an existing language thing. The institutions behind any large-scale language reform should be powerful enough to pull it trough.

>>2725633
Japanese could get over itself and simplify a bit, what with the hiragana-muh trillion kanji and sometimes katakana, all written vertically, or horizontally, either from the left or the write.
It's like they kept hoarding shit to their language and never got rid of anything. It's particularly funny what a clusterfuck it is, for such a phonetically simple language.

>>2727250
or the right*

>>2725676
>Jews were able to revive hebrew so why can't somebody else with another language?

because literally 0 people spoke hebrew. with english it's much harder to make effective change

>>2725676
For the same reason Ireland can't revive Gaelic: a lack of wealthy eccentric nationalists.

>>2725633
Japanese because they have the most retarded writing system ever.

>>2725633
Πιστεύω πως όλοι πρέπει να γράφουν στο ελληνιkό αλφάβητο kαθώς είναι για τους πατριkίους σαν εμέ.

>>2727327
Isn't Chinese more difficult?

>>2727317

It's more to due with how Gaelic is taught and the fact that it is a pretty poor/ineffective language to begin with. English is faster and allows for a much greater deal of precision.

>>2727345
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcdYKxHT8kY

>>2727250
>>2727327
You're both ignoring the enormous prevalence of homophones in Japanese that prevents the total doing away with kanji in the first place. Trying to read a sentence in hiragana ( or even phonetically in the Latin alphabet) can be very difficult if the context isn't fully clear. Katakana isnt necessary but is useful as you'll know the word is of foreign origin. I agree about what direction you're writing in though. That's an archaic leftover because they couldn't quite decide to stick with their Chinese based tradition or full western

>>2727356
How is gaelic ineffective? Generally curious. I know a bit of it and have never come across an issue.

>>2727332
Αμην.

>>2727468
And yet they can talk to each other just fine. They could use the katakana to differentiate the homophones, I don't know. There must be a better way.

>>2727468
> this argument again
Every fucking language has homophones. Everyone else manages just fine with contextualisation and the odd bit of extra explanation.

> [Carpenter fixing a door]
> A. Give me the plane.
> B. Ok, I'll give you an aircraft.

>>2728028
PS.

The advantages of abandoning kanji and using an alphabet would far outweigh the relatively small difficulties with homophones; and over time, the people and language would evolve to clarify those homophones.

Indeed, a 'plane' in English is any kind of flat surface, and we also have 'plain' with its two meanings 'a kind of large field' and 'unadorned'/'undecorated'.

Context fixes 90% of the problems here. An gradually, in the space of, say, 10-20 years people needed to evolved 'a plane flying through the air' into 'aeroplane' (British) or 'airplane' (American).

The only thing hindering the Japanese language now is arrogance and tradition.

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>What languages do you think should have different writing systems?

Maybe Polish could gain from using Cyrillic.

>>2727332
Preach it re

>>2725633
Greeks should stop using the current bastardised modern Greek and start using a form of Katharevousa which is a mixture of Ancient Greek and Koine Greek grammar and syntax and stops using foreign loan words.

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>>2725633
>What languages do you think should have different writing systems?
English, to be honest.
It's a clusterfuck and it is far beyond recovery. Can't be so hard to build a script on one principle, can it?

>>2728105
Shame it's not that easy to do

>>2728052
Lmao in every single thread like like there's a guy like you demanding an entire language reform its orthography because he's too much of a brainlet to learn it.

>>2728132
The system wasn't even created for Japanese. It was meant for Chinese languages. Koreans got rid of it and they're doing just fine.

>>2728160
in my opinion, the contrast of kanji, hiragana and katakana is beautiful. text just doesn't look that good if you limit yourself to hiragana or katakana.

it isn't actually that difficult to learn. i had a lot more problems familiarizing myself with the grammar.

>>2725676
Jews had Yiddish to work with.

>>2728132
I have no interest in Japanese whatsoever, but I do study Ancient Greek, Sanskrit, and Classical Arabic.

If a writing system takes more than 10 minutes to master, then your language is doing something spectacularly wrong. The cognitive load of having to formulate a sentence *and* concurrently consider how to write it must be a nightmare.

>>2728204
>The cognitive load of having to formulate a sentence *and* concurrently consider how to write it must be a nightmare.
You write down the words, same as any other language. It's not like other languages don't have different sets of characters for different uses or non-phonetic spellings.
I don't see how you can put so much effort into studying dead meme languages yet be so scared of the 9th most spoken language in the world.

>>2728052
>over time, the people and language would evolve to clarify those homophones

sure, just like you can leave out vowels (as in semitic languages) and your brain will still be able to reconstruct what is meant, it's just that the current system reduces the strain on the working memory and instead puts it on long-term memory.

There are also advantages in readability (recognizing word boundaries etc.), also much of the language system builds on characters as primitive building blocks that can be recombined in diffent ways and you can't ignore the huge cultural significance of the characters.

the most important factor is simply path dependency though - people stay with what they used to if it works more or less because changing it to something that has a slight advantage would be to much effort. this is what happened with the qwertz-keyboard actually - it was designed so that you wouldn't be able to type quickly on it, thus preventing keyjam on a typewriter but people got used to this deliberately inconvenient ordering and we adapted it even for computers. Same thing with historical spelling in english btw, which has even less advantages than kanji writing imo.

if you got rid of the characters, you would have some advantages, e.g. less time spent learning them in school (though desu the schooling time argument doesn't convince me since japanese and chinese students seem to do pretty well in all subjects despite the additional workload) and some disadvantages, e.g. cutting people off from traditional knowledge/literature etc., cutting ties to other sinosphere languages and so on.

Yes, the Koreans and vietnamese are fine without them (though it did in fact have a lot of disadvantages) and the japanese would probably be fine without them too but it works just fine the way it is and there's no good enough reason to change it

>>2728204
maybe you should try studying ancient sumerian, akkadian or hittite. might give you some new ideas about logographic writing

>>2728069
this desu

such an ugly orthography

central asian and caucasian languages should be written with the arabic script like they were historically.

mongolian should be written in traditional mongolian script (one of the coolest scripts ever invented, it's basically aramaic from top to bottom)

vietnamese and korean should start using chinese characters again. i'm mostly okay with hangeul though i would prefer a mixed system like in japanese but vietnamese latin script is ugly and doesn't fit into the geographic context.


German should be printed in Fraktur.


Also bring back the glagolitic alphabet tbqh

##2728485
Fuck you for your retarded spacing and uneducated opinion. Korean is one of the best writing systems in the world. It is a very shallow orthography, symbols are neatly arranged into syllable blocks and similar letters represent similar sounds. If anything, more languages and countries should adopt Hangul.
Fraktur is absolute cancer and I'm glad we abolished it long ago.

Mayan should go back to its comfy script instead of adopting the roman alphabet the spaniards imposed on them.

>>2728069
It looks like someone tried to write in Polish with closed eyes without remembering latters localization.

>>2725633
I think West Slavs should use Cyrillic. After all they're the ones who ordered the creation of a script for Slavs.
Also, as a curiosity i'd like to see Croats (and maybe Serbs, but defiantly Croats) embrace Glagolitic because they used it the longest, when other Slavs decided Cyrillic is better.
And then they got cucked by Italy and Hungary and are now triggered by Cyrillic signs in mixed cities.

I don't know much about the Georgian alphabet, but i think it's the cutest one out there.

Also, i really wish the Chinese and the Japanese found a way to fix their complex writing. And not the Chinese way of butchering the symbols so they are easier to write but don't make as much sense. They could possibly find some way to incorporate letters in them (preferably Latin), and i never quite understood why the Japanese need both Hiragana and Katakana.

>>2728610
Why should West Slavs use a script created by South Slavs? The only reason East Slavs use the Cyrillic script is because their are Orthodox christians.

>>2725633

Turkey switched from arabic to latin when cucked by the US.

I'm guessing we can expect some conflicts coming from papa stan against russia any year now.

>>2728005
>And yet they can talk to each other just fine
They can make small talk just fine, especially since they can always ask for clarification (TV often has subtitles because they can't.)
Try monotonously reading random ja.wikipedia sentences to someone and there's a good chance they will have no idea what you're talking about unless they have a STEM background or something. Show them the sentences with kanji and even highschool dropouts can guess the topic.

>>2728485

>central asian and caucasian languages should be written with the arabic script like they were historically.

But the Arabic script isn't particularly well suited to the Turkic languages at all.

The Turkic languages generally have about 8 short vowel sounds whereas Arabic has 3. There are also consonants in Turkic languages that simply aren't represented in the standard Arabic alphabet.

Arabic and Persian loan words also cause issues, as they interact with the alphabet in a different way to Turkic words.

The upshot is that you get a very technically challenging language to learn and a lot of words with very ambiguous spellings.

The switch to the Latin alphabet did wonders for Turkic literacy for this very reason.

>>2725633
>From Cyrillic to Latin
What is the reasoning behind this? I don't have an opinion one way or another if it's good or bad, just curious.

>>2730191
The modern Turkish alphabet is among the top three in the world.

>>2730115
Because it was made on request from Rastislav of Moravia.

>>2728069

Polish orthography is unique and really elegant. I can't expect anyone who doesn't know its rules to see why, but I do expect people to judge it by a metric other than "hurrrrr z's"

>>2730517
All the z's remind me of Hungarian.

Work should be done to revive Hebrew's Paleo script with diacritics added to it. It could be used aside the square script having choice usage for different purposes.

English should restore the ae's that have become e and add acute accents to foreign proper nouns.

>>2725633
Tbh Japanese would be fine with latin alphabet

>>2730517
>>2730517
Polish is among the better systems out there. That claim is often made by English or French speakers who don't realize that a large phoneme inventory requires a large inventory of letters. It could only be made better by
>some updating (removing the ogonek where vowels have lost nazalization, for example)
>regularizing
>replacing the digraphs with monographs
>cz with ç
>sz with ş
>merging ch and h into h
>merging ż and rz into z̧
>merging ó and u into u
>spelling palatalized consonants with kreska (´) in all contexts, even before i and j
And with that, the alphabet would be absolutely perfect, though maybe an eyesore to sensitive Anglo eyes.
>>2730549
English should get a fundamental reform. It's a mess. It would be cool to reintroduce some of the old letters, but only the ones that actually serve a purpose.
>>2730552
This is true.

Why do ripple hate Chinese characters so much.

If Koreans and Vietnamese didn't take their characters out I would have had so much fun

>>2730613

Some of your Polish suggestions are retarded. ó and u into u? Great, now I have one wrug and two wrogi. The very reason they're different letters at all is an orthographic representation of this common vowel shift. Same thing with merging rz and ż into something like ż - WHY? So I can have pora in one instance and poże in another? Don't you see that rz as a digraph for the historical palatalized r already perfectly represents this change? Finally, I see no reason to replace any digraphs with special characters. Digraphs did nothing wrong.

>>2728554
Hangeul is cool and all but you lose the etymological information and the analysis of the building block system for sino-words. You could still use hangeul for native korean words and have the advantages of both

Fraktur is impractical but it looks cool and it would give German a unique feel.

i actually have a degree in linguistics so my opinions aren't completely uneducated, though they were supposed to be aesthetic rather than scientific judgments.

>>2730355
fair point. I just like variety and the arabic script would also express historical ties to the muslim world that are much deeper than the influence coming from the recent soviet occupation. Also i would prefer if the latin alphabet wasn't considered the "universal" script that everyone needs to switch to, because it comes from a very specific geographical and cultural origin and is not better suited to recording languages than other scripts.

>>2730207
>>2728005
pitch accent (which is not written) also plays a role in disambiguation in speech

>>2730517
the orthography is fine in its functional aspects, it just looks really ugly. Not even because of the sz and cz but mostly because a lot of the consonant clusters and phonotactic sequences look weird in the latin script. Somehow the Czechs made it look nicer even though the languages aren't that far apart

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>>2730522

>>2730889
The problem is that Ataturk wanted to "disconnect" Turks from Their Ottoman past so rather than a slow reform of the Alphapet and language he choose to simply create a new language
Others supported the script reform but wanted to somewhat preserve the Ottoman Language so that centuries of works books and arts and culture would be understandable to turks

What is the advantage of phonetic alphabets when most languages mispronounce words anyway or have tons of exceptional rules for pronunciation?

>>2731094

None really, especially when you consider that dumbasses still manage to misspell words in phonetic scripts.

>>2730390
They used the Latin alphabet before adopting Cyrillic (and before that,Arabic). I guess they see it as part of Russian imperialism, although they still speak Russian.

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>>2725654
aй aгpй вaн хaндpeд пepceнт вид ю
>>2725656
фaк oф мaдepфaкep

>>2725654
>>2725656
>>2732449
Cyrillic is degenerate barbarian type

>>2732151
Didn't The Soviet Latin program include one for Russian? Why did they want to "Latinise" Russian? Was it for "modernization"

>>2731094
Because it's objectively easier to learn. I want to learn the grammar not spend 90 years trying to learn some dumb symbols.

>>2727481
Irish fag here.

Irish is literally useless in today's world and most people who learn it at school never use it after. Irish is a relatively simple language too so it's a shame.

>>2732718
Do what Dante did and write a book so influential that people want to speak the language.

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>>2728485
>implying pic related isn't the most based Mongolian script

>>2730754
Really, what is wrong with writing words in a different way when they're pronounced differently? If you know that they're separate forms of the same word in spoken language, then you also know that they're the same word in written language. What's the problem with that?
>>2730889
>Hangeul is cool and all but you lose the etymological information and the analysis of the building block system for sino-words. You could still use hangeul for native korean words and have the advantages of both
And the disadvantage of learning two separate and mutually incompatible writing systems from scratch. It's like Japanese II: Electric Boogaloo.
Why do you care so much about aesthetics if you have a degree in linguistics? You should know by now that productivity, compatibility and ease of learning a script is much more important to the speakers of the language than any aesthetic judgements or etymological principles.

My point is that orthography can be perfect with one single principle alone: The phonographic principle. Look at Finnish or Turkish, they're doing it perfectly fine.

>>2725633
Japanese.

>>2730891
You could easily just write that with an alphabetic script.
>>2731019
>he choose to simply create a new language
Lawl
>>2731094
>most languages mispronounce words
Guys, what is going on
Guys?
>>2732718
Can you explain Irish orthography to me?

>>2728201
Yiddish is essentially German written in Hebrew.