[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Free Show | Home]

Should STEM majors be required to take Ethics? Should every college

This is a blue board which means that it's for everybody (Safe For Work content only). If you see any adult content, please report it.

Thread replies: 124
Thread images: 9

File: STEM ethics.png (56KB, 729x662px) Image search: [Google]
STEM ethics.png
56KB, 729x662px
Should STEM majors be required to take Ethics? Should every college major be required to take Ethics?
>>
>>2722184
>Should STEM majors be required to take Ethics?
They have to
>>
>>2722196
In Britain we don't. It would help if we did. A lot of scientists, especially physicists, would be helped by reading Karl Popper. I know it is not really ethics but it would help with their understanding of the truth.

t PhD chemist.
>>
>>2722184
>Should STEM majors be required to take Ethics?
I'm in CompSci and have had one course on philosophy and one called "studium generale" which is about... actually, I don't even fucking know. Both were shared with a few other science majors, mostly physics and math.

Philosophy was just a teacher blathering about some simple concepts. You wrote a paper in groups, "defended" it, and had an oral exam in group that was just a quick conversation. Then you got something like a 16 to 18 out of 20. Even the professor said he wasn't expecting us to come to all of the lessons.

StuGen is just utter shit. They're basically just a bunch of TedX like talks about miscellaneous bullshit. We had a lecture on the bloke behind the "discovery" of the Big Bang, it was rubbish. I read a book, Progress by Johann Norberg, it was pretty shit too even if I agreed with its message. The entire thing's just completely useless.

So basically my experience is that they are required, but are usually so fringe or so badly taught that no one gives two shits.
>>
>>2722220
>Karl Popper
>muh falsification

Fuck no.

>understanding of the truth.

There is no truth, only models and we don't care if they're wrong as long as they are close.
>>
Already required to.
>>
File: IMG_3971.jpg (21KB, 235x250px) Image search: [Google]
IMG_3971.jpg
21KB, 235x250px
>>2722184
Morality is a spook.
>>
>>2722234
What's your major
>>
>>2723158
Language is a spook, are you telling me that there are invisible ideas floating around trying to possess people's minds? Like your post, what's going on behind the scenes? Wankery, that's what.
>>
>>2723158
Anonymous is a spook
>>
>>2723158
But I can use morality to increase my day-to-day acumen, which allows me to operate efficiently and decisively in accord to my personal values.
>>
>>2722184
Ethics is just too broad of a subject. I think it is better to simply offer stem students several entrance courses that cover what classical education was about. A little bit about history, philosophy and older languages in general.

I think better understanding in history especially helps to not fall for leftist bait that easily.
>>
>>2726750
HURR DURR LEFTISTS
>>
Classics should be mandatory for reading and studying as early as in middle school. Latin and Greek should be taught so that every student can fluently read ancient and medieval texts in original.

The biggest mistake of Western educational system was the abolishment of classical education.
>>
>>2726770
Why the fuck would I want to learn a dead language when I can learn one that's spoken by millions of people today? You're a /lit/tard aren't you?
>>
>>2722184
no, but they should definitely take logic and metaphysics courses. I talk to too many STEM majors who have no education in either. logic is a particularly embarrassing thing to have no education in when you think you apply critical thinking to things.

>>2723158
morality is not a spook, it is simply often a spook. read the material.

>>2724954
language is not a spook. read the material.
>>
>>2726771
Because it's the greatest heritage of Western civilization.
>>
>>2726774
>brainlet
>>
>>2726774
nice opinion. blog link?
>>
>>2726774
That's a pretty stupid reason, never mind being subjective. WHy the fuck would I want to learn fucking Ancient Greek so I can read Xenophon?
>>
>>2726778
>>2726783
>>2726784
Cucks, all me btw.
>>
>>2723158
>spook
whats that
>>
>>2726784
One of the reasons the West is declining is because it has completely abandoned its thousand-year old traditions. Latin is the ultimate language of Western civilization. For more than thousand years of Western rise and expansion educated men have cherished the traditions of their culture. Today the West is deprived of any spirit or substance, it is completely separated from its roots that made it great.
>>
>>2726796
At least we're not as degenerate as Romans and write this post in Latin right now or yer mum a cuck.
>>
>>2726758
I can't speak for yank schools, but here in europe many 'ethics' classes are just thinly veiled lefty propaganda without any significant counter arguments or critical thought.

Heck, even in full blown historical institutes only the professors for antiquity til early 20th. century are not full blown commies.

Kinda sad, desu.
>>
>>2726806
HURRRR DURRR LEFTARDS HURRR

>>2726796
Tradition has no value in and of itself, unless you're a grumpy old cretin who can't accept things change.
>>
>>2726810
AHAHAHAHA what a cuck.
>>
File: illuminati-fedora-v-memester.jpg (27KB, 599x337px) Image search: [Google]
illuminati-fedora-v-memester.jpg
27KB, 599x337px
>HURRRR DURRR LEFTARDS HURRR

>Tradition has no value in and of itself, unless you're a grumpy old cretin who can't accept things change.
>>
>>2726802
Our degeneracy is far worse than Roman. Even with all its bad sides the Latin culture has laid new foundations that lasted for another 1500 years. Such was its greatness.

Our "culture" is nothing, it's empty and void. A dying shadow.
>>2726810
Things change yes, but only because new things naturally develop on old and solid foundations. A culture that throws away its own foundations will have no future.
>>
>>2726825
Yer mum a cuck now and ur smelly ass baby ewww so stinky.
>>
File: 1468392228970.jpg (29KB, 293x263px) Image search: [Google]
1468392228970.jpg
29KB, 293x263px
>>2726795
its a slang term leftists use to discredit anything that is a human made concept/idea. private property, nation states, families, freedom, etc.

they cant argue their positions like normal people, they lost all those arguments, so they are forced to argu at the level of retards who want to destroy all of civilization.

they fail to realize that because something is a human concept, doesnt mean it is not a useful or desirable thing
>>
>>2726829
You sure showed me. Bravo.
>>
>>2726829
Best post ITT
>>
>>2726830
>DURRR LEFTARDS DURRRRR
>>
>>2726830
i think you've given the leftist itt brain damage lol
>>
>>2726810
>>2726823

I don't mind the political views of my lecturer but I don't see the point of basically indoctrinating your students.

>be me 1st semester history.
>Visit course 'Introducing History' by Prof. M
>M is a middle aged woman that probably was a hippy at some point.
>She enters the room, draws a dick on the black board and proclaims: Ladies, this is the symbol of your oppression.
>She harps on for 20 minutes about how men are bad and how male students will only ever get a B at best during the finals.
>Get a C at the end of term.
>The coursework was basically fem and lefty propaganda and I learned fuck all about historical things.

I wish I made this example up but there is literally no excuse to blurr out political propaganda if your job is to teach people something more meaningful than drawing dicks.
>>
>>2726848
Nobody believes you.
>>
>>2726851
not him but I've had similar experiences in college here in the west coast.

>anthropology class
>instructor asks if sexual dimorphism exists in humans
>I raise my hand, as I was young and eager at the time, and answer "yes, of course, just like many other species"
>get told that I am wrong and that humans display no sexually dimorphic traits
>I'm confused, so I ask about breasts, muscle growth, hip/waist ratios, average height/weight
>people in the class are rolling their eyes and a couple of people interrupt me to say "that's not dimorphism, sometimes both men and women have these traits you are talking about", instructor smugly laughs it off
>I shut up

I don't care about political ideology, but it definitely stands in the way of science in academia. I also had a fat acceptance health professor, and geography and english professors who spent much of their classes talking about their opinions on political issues as though they were axiomatic facts.
>>
>>2726848
Did you make her cry after explaining that Jesus loves her and Earth is actually 6000 years old?
>>
No. Absolutely not.

They would tell them their life purpose is to provide bigger welfare checks for the ghetto, not space exploration or any grand goals, that they should give up jobs for objectively less qualified minorities in the name of "diversity" and they should never use their critical thinking skills to critique.such memes.
>>
>>2726876
Nigger evryone does STEM for a good and well paying job not to explore space or some vague sci fi trope.
>>
>>2726829
This is the power of his.
>>
>>2726851
Where do you think you are?

>>2726867
No, I did shut the fuck up and tried not to fail the class. No point in arguing with these people. I'm not a retard.
>>
>>2726876
>This is your brain on /pol/
>>
Ethics are nothing more than a discursive framework within which interpersonal problems can be resolved in a particular institutional context, so the answer is something like "only if they're going to be working with people."
>>
>>2726943
This thread is, if anything, proof /pol/ either needs some ethics classes or at least more subtlety in broadcasting their particular propaganda.
>>
Well the STEM guys do have ethics and philosophy, at least in my country.

My brother is an electrical engineer and I think he had 10 credits worth of ethics, which isn't a lot, but at least they had it.
>>
>>2722184
In my country it is obligatory to either take ethics or religion in secondary school. Both are exceedingly poorly done. I consider them necessary, of course, but in their current form, they actually do more harm than good.
>>
>>2726851
>>2726867
not him but try stepping out of your bubble for just a second

https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9099
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9096
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9079

There's plenty of examples showing some schools and teachers being exactly like the two anons described.
>>
>>2722184
My college requires a philosophy course no matter your major, and Intro to Ethics is a really common choice. I think it, like the other requirements of a liberal arts education, is valuable to all students.
>>
>>2726851
Good thing your belief doesn't modify the reality of the situation.
>>
No

Ethicists are already a burden to mankind, we don't need to slow down science even more

[spoiler]kys[/spoiler]
>>
>>2727314
You linked an article about student government being autistic (which it always has been), Harvard saying it's okay to be trans, and a professor criticizing a student for being a shit writer, all from one of your favorite rightycuck website. How does this prove the other anons daydream about the evil feminist professor destroying his history class?
>>
>>2727499
I proved that this it's all pretty likely considering the state of US colleges today.
Are you denying that any indoctrination with a left-wing bias is taking place at universities?
Of course mainly rightwing outlets will report on this since they stand to gain on exposing it and Lefty-outlets only stand to lose by shedding light on it.
I'm not right wing btw, i'm just against brainwashing being done by either side
>>
>>2722231
Instrumentalists pls go
>>
>>2727565
The only thing you linked that had anything to do with the behavior of a professor was a student complaining about writing a shit paper. Where's the indoctrination?
>>
>>2727594
>losing an entire letter grade for not using gender-neutral language
>shit paper
Wew lad
>>
>>2727662
Nowhere do i see any proof of him losing a letter grade for using mankind at the start of the paper. That seems to be an assumption the student made. The article you posted has a picture of the last page of the paper with plenty of underlining and corrections. The kid just wrote a shit paper and wanted to blame it on "muh sjws".
>>
>>2727565
>I proved that this it's all pretty likely
I don't think you know how probability and proof works, if you think you have "proven" that something is "pretty likely" (read: highly likely) based on three anecdotes (read: unsystematic, uncontrolled, biased, low sample size data).
>>
>>2727594
>>2727712

Here's an article talking about it:
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/liberal-professors-conservative-students-clash-on-college-of-charleston-campus/article_9de17ee8-e1ae-11e6-8f86-938417ffedfd.html

But how about som video evidence of this occurring:

A student coming out with audio evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaRLGMtZvaM

Video evidence of another professor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8oL3sRzgo

LSU professor tells students that blood will be on their hands if they don't support global warming legislation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdZohYX8Gak&t=38s

Canadian Student Removed From Class For Speaking Up About Anti-Trump Lecture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRuIvdbr1fU
>>
>>2727594
>>2727712
But sure i can admit that i should've sourced and formulated my argument a bit better the first time around.
>>
>>2727729
>Here's 4 more pieces of anecdotal evidence totally proving universties have become marxist indoctrination hotbeds

Professors calling donald trump and republicans stupid isn't indoctrination. If you think professors sharing their opinion on contemporary politics, especially in classes relating to those topics, is a modern innovation than you are mistaken.
>>
>>2726823
He's right, though. A lot of things are part of tradition because they're valuable, and Chesterton's fence is important to consider; but tradition isn't inherently valuable.
>>
>>2722184
I got my MECE undergrad in the USA. We were required to attend one ethics lecture in Junior and Senior year.

The senior one was pretty much just a patent lawyer describing certain cases (with pictures). Little girl loses an eye on a toy, man gets pulled into woodchopper, etc.
>>
>>2727772
all i've claimed is that this is happening with some teachers and in some universities. Stop being disingenuous

Here's a acedemic paper on the issue as well from the National Association of Scholars:
https://www.nas.org/images/documents/A_Crisis_of_Competence.pdf

Here's basically the TL;DR of the paper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZaVXso9_Vo
>>
>>2727838
*not academic paper, but a report
>>
>>2727838
>Here's a report written by a hard-right thinktank about why dirty liberals in schools are bad
>>
>>2727694
I'm not the anon who posted the link. The mankind crap is probably in those corrections somewhere. I've had professors knock my grade down for similar shit in the past. These kinds of practices are commonplace in the academy.
>>
>>2727904
There is an extreme left bias in American schools. This promotes group think and it crushes dissenting opinions on discussion.
http://heterodoxacademy.org/problems/
>>
>>2727904

>heh, if i dismiss everything anon posts as fabricated, propaganda by evil right wingers i'll never have to admit that i'm wrong!!
>>
>>2727915
The article says the mankind correction was on the first page. Judging from the page pictured and the professors feedback, however, it looks like the students mechanics were just shit. Saying he got a B- for using mankind is disingenuous.
>>
>>2727938
Don't link shit that's ideologically loaded if you want to have a discussion. >>2727927 this seems reasonable. I agree that most universities are left leaning, and i agree that dissenting opinions shouldn't be silenced, but that doesn't make it "indoctrination" like those clickbait bullshit videos linked earlier claim it to be.
>>
>>2726771

That was the argument for getting rid of Latin and Greek and now students can barely speak one language.
>>
>>2722184
Ha ha ha no fucking waaaaay
>>
>>2722184
CS fag here, Ethics is a required course at my Uni.
>>
>>2722220
>socialism, which he associated with placing equality before freedom (to the possible disadvantage of equality)
muh socialism means equality meme
>>
>>2723158
Ethics aren't a spook though.
>>
>>2722184
>STEM
>ETHICS aka SLAVE MORALITY
pick one
>>
>>2722184
Can't teach ethics
>>
>>2722184
>willingly spooking yourself
>>
If your PhD program receives NIH grants (and most bio labs do) then you have to take an ethics course.

Pretty basic knowledge.

Surprised you don't know this, OP.
>>
>>2727952

>Don't link shit that's ideologically loaded if you want to have a discussion.
I'm not familiar with the organisation, and i saw nothing that could point to that. So i would appreciate it if you could provide some sauce.

>I agree that most universities are left leaning, and i agree that dissenting opinions shouldn't be silenced, but that doesn't make it "indoctrination" like those clickbait bullshit videos linked earlier claim it to be.
You calling those videos "bullshit clickbait" does not mean they're not real anon.
"indoctrination, the act of indoctrinating, or teaching or inculcating a doctrine, principle, or ideology, especially one with a specific point of view" If you bothered to actually watch the videos, you would find that these videos are an example of exactly that.
The information i've provided in this thread, is enough to substantiate my claim that: "[indoctrination] is happening with SOME teachers and in SOME universities" thereby making >>2726848 & >>2726863 accounts believable.
>>
Plz fuck off with your political conditioning.
>>
>>2728308
*i didn't think to wiki NAS, but i found it, sorry bout dat.
>>
>>2727945
On its own the claim is plausible, but based on my own knowledge of the system it seems very likely.
>>
>>2727440

Go vivisect some babies then
>>
The study of ethics in these programs has little to no bearing on the true pursuit of ethics in a philosophical sense. It essentially boils down to the arbitrary application of one particular moral theory to a discipline without really investigating why you ought to act in a certain way. It's more or less training individuals how to comply within whatever legal parameters will be most likely a tenet of whichever company they work for. They're not being trained to act ethically; they're being trained to follow codes.
>>
Got a B.S. in comp sci, I was required to take two ethics classes.

>ethics in the digital age
>discussed pirating, torrenting, etc
>who is responsible if someone is injured due to buggy code
Surprisingly, most of my teachers actually sent out links or emailed pdfs of required textbooks, because they hated how much textbooks cost. But I went to school in the deep south where we still hung nooses on statues of famous black people, so...

>Ethics and leadership for Navy ROTC
Without a doubt my favorite class in college. Was taught by my CO (navy O6), we basically debated a bunch of moral dilemmas
>>
>>2722184
They should all be required to take writing. Some of the papers I've seen are just people throwing down what comes up, with only a vague semblance to any sort of structure.
>>
>>2728166
they can be. more often than not they are, and are just a synonym for morality.
>>
>>2728194
Sure you can, you just have to start young.
>>
>>2722184
Ethics hold back science
>>
File: k8283.gif (64KB, 300x438px) Image search: [Google]
k8283.gif
64KB, 300x438px
>>2730050
Lack of ethics hold back science.
>>
>>2726772
>no, but they should definitely take logic and metaphysics courses. I talk to too many STEM majors who have no education in either. logic is a particularly embarrassing thing to have no education in when you think you apply critical thinking to things.

Logic belongs in the math department, not philosophy.
>>
Engineer here, took a philosophy course once for shit and giggles as it was entirely optional
>the scienttific method is WRONG
>you don't know nothing
>you don't know nothing
>you don't know nothing

Really made me think. At least the exam was very easy, I just wrote x didn't know nothing and was therefore also WRONG
>>
>>2722231
>There is no truth, only models
:/
>>
File: Jaden.jpg (47KB, 850x400px) Image search: [Google]
Jaden.jpg
47KB, 850x400px
>>2732513

This.

What's wrong with philosophers?
>>
>>2729197
Did you like your "ethics in digital age" class? I'm curious as to how they approached the subject.
>>
>>2730050
>>2730149
Ethics could teach willingness to acknowledge the truth.
Which is useful, because you occasionally get kids who want to play God, but forget to check if they are growing their own kids.
>>
>>2723158
t. never read Stirner and thinks every abstract concept is a spook
You can be unspooked and have morals btw
>>
don't most STEM-related professional associations also have codes of ethics
>>
>>2732513
Can't you undergrads at least try to be convincing
>>
>>2733196
I've got a master degree senpai. Here's a translation from an exam question from said course

>"Average scientists are guided by the prejudices of their time. Great scientists like Newton and Galilei transcend that. They are led by facts, not by interpretations"
>Is this perception in agreement with the view on science as defended by the course?

Answer: they are WRONG. THEY DON'T KNOW NOTHING
>>
>>2733420
>Answer: they are WRONG. THEY DON'T KNOW NOTHING
What an undergraduate thing to say, let alone write
>>
>>2726842
Not an argument.
>>
File: 1486004768551.jpg (316KB, 1799x968px) Image search: [Google]
1486004768551.jpg
316KB, 1799x968px
>>2722227 >>2722196>>2733191


in stem, ethics is about plagiarism, since only liberals create and believe in copyright
>>
File: Picture12.png (365KB, 1134x788px) Image search: [Google]
Picture12.png
365KB, 1134x788px
>>2722184
We should go back to the days when Ph.D. meant what it stands for, yes.

But as others have pointed out, generally, to get any real degree, you've gotta take at least one philosophy class - even if it's just 101.

Mind you, Ethics itself doesn't really tell you right from wrong, it just lets you analyse moral positions. Much could be the same of philosophy as a whole, as it attacks the same problems from so many different angles, coming away with so many different solutions.

Even theology, outside of seminary, doesn't usually teach right and wrong, but merely goes deeper into various theological positions.

Academia doesn't teach morality, it only encourages you to reason out your own.

Still, that is knowledge that anyone in a position of power or authority should be well versed in.
>>
>>2733476
There are more topics in professional ethics than those bruv
>>
>>2733476
>liberals
>pro copyright
>ever
I mean, whether you're using the Orwellian American term or the regular old fashion term, copyright and patents are purely the advocacy of the pro-business conservative.
>>
>>2732513
Given that more than half of philosophy claims objectivism is a thing, and is anti tabla rasa, to the degree of making claims of pre-existing knowledge, that must have been a pretty shit philosophy course.

(Or you're just pulling shit out of your ass.)
>>
>>2733515
you don't know anything
>>
>>2733485
>insert strawoman about feminist prof that wont give A's to ciswhite heteromales because they're morally wrong in every way imaginable
>>
>>2722184
Why should humans have to study something we have an innate understanding of. This is like asking a tree to study dendrology.
>>
>>2733996
Why study language? Why study math? Why study human biology? Why study systematic reasoning? (Oh wait, that's what you just said.)
>>
>>2733420
>Galilei
>led by facts, not by interpretations

kek
>>
>>2722184
>Should any majors be required to take Ethics?
NO.
Ethic is only for moralfags.
>>
>>2734292
To learn more about language, to learn more about math, to learn more about human biology, to learn more about systematic reason. We don't need to learn about ethics because we already posses a complete, albeit almost subconcious knowledge of the subject. You don't have to teach human how to be ethical, we are already inherently ethical.
>>
>>2735176

Ethic classes are good for understanding why others have fucked up ethics.
>>
>>2736793
We're inherently empathetic (or at least, most of us are), we are not inherently ethical. Ethics means applying systematic reasoning to morals, so that when we write laws, and such, all reasonable men can agree as to their morality, regardless of how complex they become.

There's a lot of moral gray zones (and even not so gray zones) where people will arrive at conflicting conclusions as they are approaching the problem from different answers. We fight wars over this shit.

If you want to achieve C.S. Lewis style moral realism you claim, you need a study of ethics to find that universal answer and prove as to whether or not a particular belief agrees with it. (Which is why he advocated for ethics to be taught from day one.)

And even if you don't want moral realism, you still need a system of ethics on which to build your case within your paradigm's framework, even if it reaches the extreme where it's no longer about collective reasoning, but theology. (Which we've also fought wars over.)
>>
File: 1449197268809.png (125KB, 1287x1211px) Image search: [Google]
1449197268809.png
125KB, 1287x1211px
>>2736793
>because we already posses a complete, albeit almost subconcious knowledge of the subject

Explain Muslims
>>
>>2736793
One of the first things taught in any ethics class is times when researchers str8 up failed to consider the ethics of their research and methodologies
>>
>>2730033
Whats the difference between brainwashing and teaching then, when it comes to subjective shit like morals and ethics?
>>
>>2740058
Because the point is mostly so you don't end up either academically blacklisted for questionable ethics or str8 up arrested
>>
Nobody should be required to take anything besides what you need to be proficient in the basics of your field. Academia is not your baby sitter and you should have the intellectual curiosity to pursue extra shit on your own. Forcing students to take bullshit superficial classes alienates people from those subjects.
Thread posts: 124
Thread images: 9


[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Top | Home]

I'm aware that Imgur.com will stop allowing adult images since 15th of May. I'm taking actions to backup as much data as possible.
Read more on this topic here - https://archived.moe/talk/thread/1694/


If you need a post removed click on it's [Report] button and follow the instruction.
DMCA Content Takedown via dmca.com
All images are hosted on imgur.com.
If you like this website please support us by donating with Bitcoins at 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties.
Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site.
This means that RandomArchive shows their content, archived.
If you need information for a Poster - contact them.