To what degree did he improve life in China? From what I understand,

>>2706619
>Could these benefits have been provided without all the death?
Not being a dumbfuck and playing randomly with your agriculture would be enough.

Generally, you could bring China to wealth just by keeping order. That's what all the imperial dynasties did.

Most revolutions that result in a lightyear leap will usually require a high price, but China paid a price far too high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh-4gsDjAKg

>>2706619
He saved China

>>2706619
Just look at Taiwan. The previous leaders of China fled there. Taiwan is doing fine with greater freedoms, neither is it technically behind

>>2706896
Taiwan success =/= China success

>>2706896
>a small island nation is comparable to a giant nation full of impoverished and downtrodden farmers and peasants

>>2706619
>Could these benefits have been provided without all the death?
Aside from the lots of death required to end the warlord period, the death from Great Leap Forward-induced famine and the chaos of the Cultural Revolution probably wasn't necessary.

>guys, guys, how about instead of one massive smelting and refining plant we make hundreds of tiny, one person operated smelting furnaces and plants? Thats many more smelting furnaces than just one!

>>2706896
lol, lots of Taiwanese hate Chiang Kai-Shek with a passion, in their experience Taiwan is a success despite of the KMT not because of them.

>>2707399
you can see the logic though. China was way behind and needed to catch up for fear of invasion

>>2706619
From the 1950s to early 1980s, the Chinese health system achieved enormous improvements in health and health care. It gave priority to prevention and primary care, relying on modestly-trained health workers (i.e., barefoot doctors). Although the latest health care technology was not available, almost everybody enjoyed equal access to very basic health care. The Chinese public health apparatus achieved major gains in controlling infectious diseases through immunization, improved sanitation, and the control of disease vectors, such as mosquitoes for malaria and snails for schistosomiasis. Infant mortality fell from 200 to 57 per 1,000 live births, and life expectancy increased from about 45 to 68 years.

>>2707409
It exposed Mao's lack of understanding of mass production, manufacturing, or engineering. Mao was a tool.

>>2707409
I'm not following. To me it sounds like, "why have one munitions factory when everyone can just make and upkeep their own weapons?"

>>2706619
well peasants became slightly better than what they were previously but other than that no real lasting improvements were made

The growing prosperity of a country is directly proportional to the increasing lavishness of the chief of the state. China's current success is largely due to his alpha-malehood.

>>2706619
>Could these benefits have been provided without all the death?

Life in China improved at a much more rapid pace after Deng de-Maoified the country, so I'd say yes.

>>2707428
If one doesn't understand why peasants cannot smelt steel, it of course sounds like a great solution. If peasants could smelt steel, it would definitely have been a good solution.
Not that they can, and not that it was a good solution.

>>2706619
The Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution were massive fuck ups that were completely unnecessary.

>>2706619

You do realize he took over after a decades long civil war that was interrupted by WWII right? Of course living standards are going to increase dramatically from what they were.

>>2706762
According to whom? There's a reason why China kept communist nomenclature but Russia did not. And unlike in Russia, Chinese socialism was created, not co-opted, by the long-serving strongman.

China reveres Mao to an extent that the late Soviets did not revere Stalin.

If China was capitalist it would be better than India, worse than Brazil.

Compare that to what we've got now.

>>2707401
Where does this animosity come from?

>>2707813
Having your island invaded by a bunch of corrupt warlord losers who impose martial law and are more concerned with the mainland than the island itself.

I'm not saying the Taiwanese are pro-CCP either. Many just want to be left alone or would have preferred Japanese rule.

Many Taiwanese highlight Taiwan's closeness to Japan.

When I say Taiwanese I mean Chinese who had been living in Taiwan before the KMT fled there.

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>>2706863
lol triggered anti-communist can't even think of a reply to this video

>>2706619
>Could these benefits have been provided without all the death?

Absolutely. There is no question about it. Its impossible for anyone to make the case other wise. Just look at China's growth from 1979 and on wards. Every standard of measure has improved significantly after capitalism was introduced. In literally 30 years China turned from a economic back water into the greatest manufacturing power house in the world. This is something Mao wanted desperately but never even came close to doing.

Mao was a extremely resentful person and the only thing he cared about was revolution. He literally revolted against everything, Chinese culture, Nationalist, Capitalism, and even against the party he created. The guy is pathological to the core. I do not understand why western intellectuals are so sympathetic to communists. Those intellectuals would not last 2 days under Mao.

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>>2708748
>Every standard of measure has improved significantly after capitalism was introduced. In literally 30 years China turned from a economic back water into the greatest manufacturing power house in the world
lmao no
http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/stories/90-of-chinese-peasants-live-as-they-did-40-years-ago.html
China used to be an industrial power that had its own domestic rural industries

Then Deng came in and said rural people are only useful as corvee labor. So rural industry was privatized and the new managers set about scrapping industry for personal gains and setting up sweatshops on the coasts.

During the early 70's China had amazing economic growth

>>2708868
>China used to be an industrial power

There are more commercial goods in China than ever before. Car sales for example has grown over 10 folds over the last 15 years.

China was not at all a industrial power before 1979. After 79 China has become the leading global exporter. I have no Idea where you get the idea that China "used" to be an industrial power, China has become a industrial power.

Life in rural China is changing very fast. A lot of small provincial towns are growing into cities and people are leaving the farms en mass. Very similar to Europe during the 20th century. Life in rural areas have improved as well, the collectivization and de facto private property have made life in rural China much more tolerable. Food availability has ceased to be a problem in rural China for the first time in a long time.

>During the early 70's China had amazing economic growth

Yes after the cultural revolution stopped and stability came again growth started. But those rates of growth were small compared to the early 2000. It was literally double digit growth for a solid decade.

The main thing that Mao did to imporve life in Chia was ending the civil war and unifying the country which allowed it to rebuild after the chaos of the past century. They majority of what he did as chariman of the new communist goverment actualy hindered the progress that China's newfound stability allowed.

I think it's telling that even the CCP says he was '70% good, 30% bad. They rely on Mao's legacy for legitimacy, but they're still ambivalent about him.

Mao unified the country, rapidly industrialised the country despite being repeatedly told by the Soviet's that it was impossible, provided basic education, health and work pensions.

On the other hand his central planning was poorly thought out and resulted in many deaths that I really don't think Mao intended to cause.

I think Xi's latest moves to preserving some of Mao's legacy is anachronistic however and it just shows how flimsy the CCP is right now.

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>>2709812
Early 1970s was the height of the cultural revolution they even sent a satellite into space that broadcast the East is Red
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMgVummiyY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwiE0Ik29H0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MofjUzMAr2c

>But those rates of growth were small compared to the early 2000. It was literally double digit growth for a solid decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_GDP_of_China
>1970 real growth 19.3%
>1969 real growth 16.9%

highest growth rate of the 2000s was 2007
>14.2%

do you even sources, bro?

>>2708868
Why did Zhou Enlai have to die?

man's gotta eat

>>2708868

It's "amazing" economic growth because they were simply putting things back in the right place after the cultural revolution. Between 1965 and 1969, the economy shrank due to the upheval caused by the cultural revolution, which choked off the supply of intellectuals for management and development. The GDP in 1969 is barely higher than what it was in 1966,

>>2711693
Why did Lin Biao have to die?

>>2706619
There are fewer birds.

>>2708748
>very standard of measure has improved significantly after capitalism was introduced.

But capitalism wasn't introduced

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>>2707421
>Mao
>Tool
I see what you did there

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>>2712642
>Nervous capitalist try to claim 1970-1976 wasn't during the cultural revolution

What should we call it then?
the period where Maoist policies were produced economic growth and technological/medical and even archaeological advances.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawangdui
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terracotta_Army
The terra cotta army was discovered in 1974

anon you have to wake up to the fact that Maoist policies actually worked
>muh lost economic growth
>muh oppressed intellectuals
>muh hatred of history
are propaganda claims by butthurt children of communist party cadres who had to go to rural China and actually help their countrymen advance instead of exploiting them and using the money to buy houses in Canada and the U.S
here is an account from someone who lived through that time and doesn't have to rely on selling sensationalist scar literature for an income
http://www.radio4all.net/files/[email protected]/4024-1-the_michael_slate_show_11-11-09.mp3
http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/37226

>>2714023
Good post lmao

>>2714023
我中华之涂炭,外族不可喻也。

>>2706896
>21 million people
>1.4 billion people

>>2708655
Ummm many Taiwanese do not highlight their closeness to Japan and disdain their cultural destruction in Taiwan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

>Dude fuck sparrows the fucking free loaders
>lmao why the fuck are insects eating all our crops?

>>2707813
China is still better than India, because having an authoritarian government that can make good decisions is good for your economy.

>>2706619
mao was a fucking idiot - literally 0 understanding of agriculture and industry that got fucked whenever he was in power. Look at the stats during the GLF compared to when Chen/Liu reformed, then look at the Culture Rev stats compared to Deng's modernisations. The only good things he ever did domestically for China was the 5 year plan and killing all the tibetans.

>>2706874
pu yi saved China