Modern Rome

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>>2700135

>>2700135
that image is fucking retarded

>>2700157
Fuck I love seeing roman armor re imagined as modern day armor/technology it looks so fucking cool

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Depending on where you start, trying to guess between 1500 and 500 years of history predicated on such a huge difference in trajectory is nothing but an exercise in fiction. The discussion would probably better suited to a board like /tg/, who regularly make up interesting hypothetical scenarios.

>>2700135
>What do you think Rome would look like if it was still around?
Pars Orientalis or Occidentalis?

>>2700135
>Full helmet
>With a fucking gun

>>2700170
>>2700161
Why do you guys hate this

>>2700164
Reasonable, I was just talking more in terms of what you think they might adapt to or change about their society.

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>>2700170

shrapnel. It wasn't an outlandish idea in WWI and they experimented with all sorts of crazy armor, most wasn't put into production though.

In either case it was obviously designed for aesthetics over practical function in the case of the OP image.

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>>2700170
These guys used guns too.

Are you talking about Rome staying at it's height? Or it having a Renaissance and resurgence, retaking all of their lost territory?

>>2700189
OP here, I guess having a renaissance and resurgence, as the Roman Empire was declining in it's later years. Imagine instead of it falling to barbarians it survived but it went through the dark ages anyways.

>>2700186
Musket was not accurate enough to deserve proper aiming.

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>>2700179

armor wasn't unusual either

however, OP's pic just misses the point by not actually reaching down to protect internals, having bulky shoulder pads that were only meant to protect against swords hacking downwards at the body, and having really, really silly stuff like the paper thin shield.

The cheek protections don't make much sense because a direct round and shrapnel will go through it anyway and the neck is unprotected, and you can't properly aim a rifle without a good cheek rest.

>>2700212
Yeah I'm gonna be honest it's not a very functional armor in the OP I just like how it looks. Do you think the Romans would find advantages to having armored soldiers in wars like ww1 and ww2?

>>2700135
why would a "modern" Roman soldier look like an ancient one at all? even Byzantine soldiers looked more Persian than classical Roman, and Italians gravitated towards poofy clothing.

>>2700228
Again, older aesthetic mixed in with newer technologies/armor
>>2700220
It's not very functional armor, I just like how it looks

>>2700202
Fair enough, the gun in OP looks like it would need proper aiming so at least a large visor would be needed.

>>2700164
This.

>>2700199
Well we'll assume the Romans kept their territory they had in 100 bc, minus their holdings in Anatolia. I would hope that they would stagnate, as they did in our timeline, but they would not lose any further territory. They would go through their Renaissance, and with the development of more tech, particularly through metal working and communication, they will be able to take advantage of the disorganized and small territories in Europe. I would guess this would be about 1300, so they would focus on Russia/Nordic countries instead of the Middle East and Africa.

>>2700157
>>2700163
Perhaps I have a retardation of the mind, but I don't really see much roman influence in that painting besides the red clothing.

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>>2700212

more WW1 armor

>>2700199

in that case it would look quite literally exactly like the European kingdoms that replaced it all the way to the modern age, the gear and weapons they used were already changing to reflect the different needs and circumstances of war, they wouldn't just stay looking "Roman". You already had Romans wearing mail coats and nasal helmets by the end, you'd have them try out lamellar armor, closed helmets and plate and all kinds of stuff.

>>2700220
>Do you think the Romans would find advantages to having armored soldiers in wars like ww1 and ww2?

they'd give it a shot just like everyone else, i figure. Let's remember armor was being reintroduced in WW1 after about a century in which the common soldier didn't use armor due to the need to be mobile, affordable and the lack of a particular importance to his well being. WW1 changed things.

>>2700239
I wonder what Romans would do with Africa. I know they made it to Egypt and Alexandria at one point but would they find the precious materials and overcome the african warlords?

>>2700240
It seems like in the musket smoke you can see a "modernized" Roman Flag. Also the firing lines scream an "attacking testudo" to me.

>>2700258
I know Egypt was a great place for linens and food, but Europe could provide both of these things, and I think the Ottomans would still be in this timeline, so Egypt would be off limits for now.

>>2700270
Makes sense. I'm not sure where they would set their sights on if we go by their holdings in 100 BC, They'd probably go for Europe. I think this timeline they could possibly defeat the Germanic tribes

>>2700279
Well by now I think the Germanic Tribes would be actual nations, making it easier for the Romans

>>2700135
Are there any people living the in the city of Rome here on this board

what are you doing to revive the glory of your city?

>>2700318
Romans could probably take over many more lands if they had a stronger sense of nationalism and also didn't pay germans to keep germans out of Rome. Once they get to further into Europe I could see them taking over many small European countries. Britain would probably still be Roman today.

>>2700157
This is really cool
>>2700135
This is really gay

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>>2700255
>in that case it would look quite literally exactly like the European kingdoms that replaced it all the way to the modern age, the gear and weapons they used were already changing to reflect the different needs and circumstances of war, they wouldn't just stay looking "Roman". You already had Romans wearing mail coats and nasal helmets by the end, you'd have them try out lamellar armor, closed helmets and plate and all kinds of stuff.

this. Even when you look at the late Byzantines there's nothing in particular that makes them look like what a Roman soldier would have looked like during the empire's height.

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>>2700337
FUCKING STOP BASHING THE OP PIC I JUST THOUGHT IT LOOKED COOL I UNDERSTAND IT'S NOT PRACTICAL AND WOULD NEVER BE USED REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>2700240
The helmet

>>2700342
Sorry about that, but this is the kind of thing that triggers /tg/-autism in many anons.

>>2700342
>I JUST THOUGHT IT LOOKED COOL
I think you may be a huge faggot if you think that looks cool, OP.

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>>2700170
Da. The pointmen on Russian entry teams often wear these things.

>>2700371
fuck off

>>2700371
bully

>>2700157
I'm so erect right now

>>2700240
>besides the red clothing.
It's questionable if Roman soldiers wore red. Most of them likely had white wool tunics with the wealthier ones wearing all kinds of colors.

>>2700135
>What do you think Rome would look like if it was still around?
It's called Romania.

>>2700485
?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Romanians
I don't think that's right, but you can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

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Why do all of these modern reimaginings of Roman armor used classical Roman armor instead of the stuff they were actually wearing closest to the modern period?

>>2700540
Classical roman armor looked cooler

>>2700556
Byzantines looked pretty cool I guess, I could definitely see Rome taking that direction

>>2700157
fuck yeah that pic is better than porn

>>2700540

that metal crest looks so unbelievably tacky, it's the worst part about the late Roman armors

>>2700532
I thought I was being witty, desu

>>2700135
>bayonet on (what appears to be) a semi-automatic rifle
>but with a short sword on the belt
For what purpose?

I might've created a bad thread. How about instead of what the Romans would've done (which is basically impossible to speculate as >>2700164
stated) We come up with an alternate historical version of Roman events and how they developed?

>>2700629
Last time I'm answering shit about the op pic
It looks cool

>>2700629
Trench Warfare loadout?

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>>2700157

>>2700135
Don't worry OP, I like the picture too.

>>2700670
I like the green

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>>2700606
Eh, I like em

Imagine if the Romans found the Americas

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>>2700135

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>>2700700

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>>2700700

>>2700727
this is paracox tier blobbing

>>2700729
>implying life isn't a paradox game

>>2700715
>Rome becomes the biggest superpower to exist ever
>Owns the Mediterranean, North America, most of Europe, Africa, holding off the asians, holding off the barbarians, holding off the spaniards
>Rome becomes the first government to rule the world
>With humanity unified, Technology is advanced far beyond what we have today
>Space travel for millions possible in 2050

>>2700135
it looks like it could be a imperial guard from 40k

>>2700731
go to bed johan

>>2700733
>Space travel for millions possible in 1050
FTFY
Fucking Christian Dark Ages

>>2700748
But anon, in the later years of the Roman empire they were christian. As much as I think the roman's gods deserved to spread, they probably would spread Christianity more. Whether that would halt technological innovation, I don't know.

>>2700636
It doesn't.
Faggot.

>>2700733

If they'd realized the potential of steam power back when they first made aeolipiles, they could have had an industrial revolution a bit over a millennium and a half early.

We'd have colonized Mars 500 years ago or more.

>>2700782
Why are you so intent to shit on it anon just because I said it's cool doesn't mean it's objectively the best design it's just that I like the design. What's wrong with it anyway (Other than impracticability)

>>2700793
Go fuck yourself if you honestly believe that. yes some Roman scientists and Engineers dabbled in steam power, but it would have been hundreds of years until it could be made into an engine for a train or car. Your best hope would be for an industrial revolution 150-200 years earlier, and that is if the new Pax Romana lasted for centuries

>>2700135
it would be a massive decrepit totalitarian federation of some sort, it would be highly buerocratic and religious, possibly both at the same time as in the religious organisation might be the buerocracy, and it would be militaristic to a fault

it would probably be multipolar, as in it would have more than one seat of power and power base, maybe even multiple emperors at the same time, it would be a political clusterfuck

>>2700817
Honestly this sounds like a kino show to watch desu
Can you write it and have it be sponsored by netflix or something

>>2700157
aren't these Poles? they look like Winged Hussars minus the wings and horses

>>2700816
Fuck off medievalshill, the Middle Ages were an aberration, caused by snowniggers, steppeniggers and sandniggers chimping out. Things were supposed to transition from the classical period straight to modernity. Industrialization by the 5th century, space colonization by the 10th, and today we would be settling Andromeda.

>>2700821

its basicaly what would have happened if the churches big plan of ressurecting a frankenstein rome 2.0 from frankish and german fiefdoms worked, the frankish empire came close but collapsed before becoming homogenous enough to pull off a triumvirate, then hre was the continuation of the experiment, which practicaly transmuted into the reich

the eastern empire had similar ideas, spreading trough christianisation and pacification of east european populations, while maintaining itself in asia and midde east

what that achieved trough a cascade of selfsimilar orthodox monarchies is tzarist russia, in theory if you could imagine a functional hre in somesort of union with a surviving bisantium and imperial russia of some sort, youd get rome ''surviving'', but except for the arbitrary fact of the rulers changing as one conquered other, thats pretty much what happened, except instead of bizant you had ottomans and everione was fighting each other constantly - but that isnt dissimilar to how rome worked, the empire itself fought itself routinely

the empire never ends man

>>2700629
That's a normal thing, historically.

>>2700864
This as a game of thrones-esque show but with actually good characters and plot sounds kino af. Rome was pretty cutthroat as an empire, so it'd make sense having a got like world empire. I'd much rather watch that hybrid of Rome and GOT

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>>2700135
A surviving Roman empire probably wouldn't have looked that different from the real historical civilizations that followed it.

During the last few centuries that they existed, the Romans had largely transitioned into a medieval aesthetic. The red cloaks, lorica segmentata, and scutum shields had already given way to chainmail and generic oval shields.

>>2700897
That's pretty reasonable. Still makes me sad they abandoned 3, even though I understand why.

>>2700854

thats not true tho, that applyes maybe to the 'dark ages' period after collapse, but even that last maybe till the 900eds and thing begin to rapidly pick up, till the plague hits, after which things start picking up even more rapidly

considering basic things like how economy and society functioned and what technology they had practicaly at disposal it wouldnt have gone much faster regardless

besides theres obvious examples of massive empires or othervise homogenous structures surviving for extended periods and reaching high levels of sofistication and invention and even comming close to scientific revolution scenario, but even tho they existed in relative stability for centuries or thousands of years they didnt realy produce one

what could be concluded for that is that perhaps there wouldnt have been any scientific and technological leap or series of leaps that happened in europe, not on that scale and intensity, if it wasnt for the middle ages

>>2700864
>>2700929

most likely people would keep on living as 3rd century romans perfectly happily with some development here and there as need or want dictated, but they might have never gone farther than making steam engines for steam-ships or something, then maybe little by little theid go into automation and mechanics and so on, but even so its not like they would be building flying soucers by the 7th century or something, it might be usefull to note that western rome did collapse and that that does tell us something about how it functioned and if it was worth shit, but also it might be interesting to remember romans burned as many books or scrolls on sciency stuff of the time, from what was then equivalent of natural sciences and medicine to philosophic tractates and theology to astronomy and alchemy and mathematics and engeneering etc... many emperors didnt like the idea of free people inventing weird shit, or particularly liked the notion of free information, say the printing press, romans had all the technology to make them, they even used techniques of printing, but they never printed books, not once, theres a point there

>>2700579
>The Roman Empire looked pretty cool I guess, I could definitely see the Roman Empire taking that direction

Wut.

>>2700793
>tfw when no Western Empire backed supercrusade
>tfw no eternal war with cross-Rhine/Danube GermanoSlav confederation
>tfw no ridiculous treasure ships made for a pointless dick waving contest with the Chinese

It hurts bros.

>>2700178
>Why do you guys hate this
Because a future Roman army would not look like that

It's just old Roman armor and WWII U.S Airborne uniform mashed together

>>2700956
>They were the offspring of the Roman empire if anything, a lineage
It was literally the same fucking state. How is that difficult to understand.

>>2700956
>They were the offspring of the Roman empire
You are a massive fucking retard and I suspect you have never read a history book in your life.

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>>2700956
>They were the offspring of the Roman empire if anything, a lineage.
/his/ was a mistake

>>2700977
>>2700982
You're right I'm retarded sorry

>>2700135
We can't tell.

Maybe if 1204 and 1453 hadn't happened, you'd know

>>2700199
1)It did survive
2)Dark ages are a meme

>>2700977

first off, you can't speak of "state" as a tangible, well established thing before the XVIII century, second, technically there were two states one of which was the ERE, that's the whole fucking point of the division.

I accept that there's a connection culturally and even politically, but the Byzantine Empire just wasn't a continuous entity with the Classical Roman Empire in the same way the Seleucids or the Ptolemies were directly Macedonian.

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>>2700828

>>2700540
>5th century armour
>closest to modern
Try 15th century

>>2700579
>Romans looked pretty cool I guess, I could definitely see Rome taking that direction

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>>2700997
Well, alright

>>2700998

please stop this wewuzery

>>2700793
>HEY WANNA INVEST IN THIS INEFFICIENT STEAM POWER?
>No we have slaves

>>2701004
>mainstream academic belief is wewuzery

wew lad

>>2700994
>connection culturally and even politically, but the Byzantine Empire just wasn't a continuous entity with the Classical Roman Empire
But it was. To make an argument that it wasn't you have to make up all sorts of arbitrary rules and cutoff points.

>>2701004
>a state called the Roman Empire was somehow not Roman
Really makes you think

>>2701014
>To make an argument that it wasn't you have to make up all sorts of arbitrary rules and cutoff points.

The division of the empire is not an arbitrary point

>>2701022
So the Western Roman Empire wasn't really Roman either?

>>2701023

to be honest no

it had Rome as a city and Romans as a vague ethnic group remained but Ravenna was the capital and it was mostly populated by Germanics and other non-Italians

>>2701022
>>2701023
Define Roman.

Yes, it started as the people from Rome.

But what about non-Roman italians who got citizernship? Do they count as Roman?

The edict in the 3rd century that made everyone roman Citizerns. Are they not all Roman?

If they are (and they are, it's kinda...arbitrary to decide everyone in the empire not born in rome can't be roman), then its citizernship that makes them Roman.

And guess what? The subjects under the ERE are still Roman citizens.

>>2701027
Roman = Citizen of the Roman Empire.

No point applying the 'Only people from Rome or the settler decendents were Roman!' genetics arguement, as that stopped been the rule early in the republic.

>>2701023
Yeah it was

>>2700817
>>2700821
Holy shit this, I'd love to see a story on a hellish Neo-Rome.

>>2700817
>multi emperors

Well, it did that irl.
Main Emperor and a co Emperor

>>2701035
And then have some young politician take the reigns of control and restore the former glory.

>>2700988
>>2700982
>>2700977
If you don't mind can I say I meant that the Byzantine Empire wasn't the exact same as Rome in terms of culture and other aspects?

>>2701068
Which Rome?

Kingdom, Republic, late republic, Early Empire? Late Empire?

>>2701076
Western late republic/early empire

>>2701028
>>2701033

citizenship didn't mean jack shit for most of Rome's existence(or people who inhabited it), peregrini had their own laws, courts and systems and were in every way incorporated into society.

if you really want to define the Roman empire as a state, then let's actually visit the words' meaning: it's a union of elements. One of them is the dominant political institution a.k.a. the indefinite organization and physical entity aimed at the administration of society, which would rule out anything after the Kingdom if we were anal about it. The other is the peoples, which is a dodgy thing that can't be properly established by the later stages whether they had citizenship or not, or whether they were the same ethnic group or culturally identified as Roman(many didn't), and the Empire in it's height was never composed integrally by people who would be exclusively Roman citizens, and lastly, there's the Territory, which nobody save for the Vatican can't claim.

Saying Byzantium was Roman is true if you give Romanhood a very broad definition in which only one of these is absolutely true, to saying it because they had a continuity with a political system that had changed substantially before they came along and kept changing on it's own for a long time.

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>>2700817
>The Roman Empire would've evolved into the Imperium of Man sans The Big E

>>2701076
>>2701081
>>2701068
also In this alternate version of history byzantine emperor doesn't exist because Rome never falls

>>2701228
Is there still a Western Empire and an Eastern Empire?

>>2701261
Yeah but they're ruled by the same government (unless they do get split apart, I haven't fully fleshed out this alternative history, I imagine if they could survive the fall they wouldn't be split)

It would be such a disappointment that people wouldn't be romanticizing the name Rome anymore.

>>2700186
The key to modern war is mobility, there is a reason troops didn't want the extra 20 pounds to carry

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>>2701261

if the chaos that left Rome in an irreparable state and ultimately destroyed it didn't happen i presume neither did the split.

HOWEVER, if Rome really was well run, if say, Commodus died a fetus and some unknown prodigy took over, we'll assume certain endemic problems would have been addressed.

Reforms to the Roman empire could include more provincial independence and administrative efficiency, more representation to the population and a breath of life to Senatorial positions, a less abusive and more equal tax system with an actual treasury to handle corruption and such, Praetorians kicked the fuck out and replaced with actual Palatine guards, German tribes NOT being lied to and left to die repeatedly until they stopped trusting Rome altogether, Christianity being fully absorbed as a state religion and used to control the population properly, The creation of a central bank to make the permanent process of inflation and devaluation manageable and to provide tools to fight it, the slow, crawl-speed expansion of the northern frontier with Walls and castles everywhere, the establishment of contact with other kingdoms past the Persian territory, etc.

also let's say someone figures out the press, saddles, advanced crop techniques and ocean-worthy vessels, for the kicks.

>>2701228
also In this alternate version of history the Roman empire doesn't exist because Rome never falls

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>>2700179
>>2700212
>>2700255

>>2701311
Issues of the West:

Not much of a tax base/urban tradition (cities are around army camps for the most part)
Not much breathing space away from raids/attacked from multiple direction
No clear line of succession or government
Unable to manage the barbarians (e.g. don't keep them out of high command, then when they do try to purge them, they kill the good one)
Senators were corrupt as fuck (compared to the eastern administration)
Land reform was piss poor

>>2701330
please no stop this you know that's correct

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>>2700828
I mean, they kind of look like Hussars, but Polish musketeers had a very different uniform and it was blue.

>>2700828

I googled it, they're some fantasy stuff the artist made up that he said is based on the 17th c.

My first thought was Poles too, they're probably an influence.

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These were the last Roman soldiers

>>2701365

That actually a pic of a minor nobleman and thus cavalryman.

>>2701449
>barbarians
>romans

The turks have the same claim as the Germans: None

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>>2700828
It's a typical 17th century cavalry and archebusier armor, so yes, they also look like Polish Hussars. The main difference is the real version had leather boots instead of steel greaves like in the picture.

>>2700157
that's cool but that armor is nothing but dead weight in the time of line infantry and everyone knew it by then
at most it was a psychological placebo for certain cavalrymen

>>2700135
They look like modern soldiers, your thread is cosplay.

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>>2701473
Okay. What about this one ?

>>2700897

5 and 6 a shit

SHIIIIIIIIIIIT

>>2701643
shit tier

They would probably had lost everything but Italy to be honest

>>2701643

That's an infantryman, as seen by the matchlock musket and hanging powered charges.

The other Pole up thread has a wheel lock musket spring winding key hanging off his belt, and only the nobility use expensive wheel locks.

>>2701449
wtf i'm triggered now

>>2702790
>not seeing the glory of turk

>>2700135
>>2700157
>All these segmentatas
>Implying Hamata wasn't more flexible and easy to move.

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>>2700135
you rang?

>>2704968
>implying a lorica hamata is nearly as aesthetic or protecting of your upper body

>>2700881
What? Since when did soldiers have swords in the age of semi-automatic weapons?

>>2705123
Soldiers usually have a tool for cutting things, like a machete when in forested areas/general use. Vietnam had a lot of soldiers with machetes. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/62047-vietnam-war-issue-machetes-model-1942/.
The point of the gladius would be the same I would assume, and while I posted the OP pic because I thought it looked cool, it could definitely make sense. A sword for general use, appearances and rank (Japanese generals would have katanas in world wars for Seppuku or other purposes) It just makes sense and of all the things on that uniform, it's probably the most useful other than the assault rifle.

>>2700157
muh dick

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Post yfw Rome gets bleached by the germanic tribes

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>>2705123
!

>>2700339
probably because byzantines werent roman

>>2707821
What the fuck is with this retarded idea that there was some form of "ethnic" Roman, ever

>>2700698
>>2700606
Reminders me Kinnikuman

>if Rome was still around
It'scalled Vatican.

If Rome never split then Byzantine would not exost and Ottomans would not take Constantinople. Deusvult/10

>>2700731
This is your reminder that border gore is historical.

>>2700733
You had me then lost me, buddy. I'll give you a 7/10 for effort though.

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>>2700997
The 15th century (and anything past the 1200s really) isn't an accurate guess on the future of Roman military equipment.

Considering that by that point they were already drowning in loads of foreign influence. Both from the east and west even, considering there's a mosaic/frescoe of the Byzantine Emperor wearing Turkic-style clothing.

>>2701644
Five and six are the best from a military, cost and aesthetic point of view.


Segmatafags need to fuck off seriously.

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>>2708383
Damn near everything the Pre-Decline Romans used was foreign.

Predominantly from the Greeks and Celts, with some odds and ends from other foreign threats.

>>2700731
life's a huge multiplayer game

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>>2700135
>What do you think Rome would look like if it was still around?

>>2708741
vatnik pls

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>>2708385
Hamata Lorica apologists need to get off my board

>>2701332
The blue dude looks straight out of Final Fantasy

>>2708613
>brrvvrrppp
>*freeze frame*
>Yep. That's me. You're probably wondering how I got into this mess

>>2701017
Ahem

>H
>R
>E

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>>2701449
>>>>>>>>>implying

>>2700135
Rome = Romania and Italy IRL. So, kinda shit. Level Rome in its heyday.

>>2710693
Are you implying the the BE was a continuation of the Roman Empire, and the redcoats were the legionnaires?
If so, you're fucking nuts.

>>2710713
>you're fucking nuts

Maybe, but I'm also right

>>2708385
>and aesthetic point of view.
Nah.

What's aesthetic about it? Looks like some cheap D&D stuff.