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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9lIuUjPs0
>Koran isn't compiled until Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan
>Mosques faced Petra for almost 100 years
>1st Arab inscription referencing Muhammad is in 691
>1st references to 'Muslims' is in 690's
>1st reference to 'Islam' is not until 691
>1st reference to Mecca is not until 741
>1st biography of Muhammad within Islamic sources is not until 833
>people will try to defend this
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That man's neck needs to be acquainted with a scimitar, inshallah.
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ORAL TRANSMISSION
YOU DOPE
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>>2693069
Why do people always make pretend oral transmission is reliable or immutable? They shouldn't.
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>>2693074
The opposite is true, redditors (you) think oral transmission is wrong because they've forgotten how to memorize anything beyond their fucking biology bullshit
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>>2693082
What proof do you have that oral transmissions can maintain their integrity for centuries across multiple generations? None.
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>>2693089
>proof
Fuck off back to /sci/
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why is that islamic pendant written in hebrew?
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>>2693074
All the hadith collectors did was clump a bunch of stories together with no way for the reader of knowing where they came from and what context they were in without a long ahadith or Sirah literature. The isnad chain makes no sense since you could make up whatever you want about someone back then and somehow will be passed on as Sahih material. If anything any daif material could still be true and valid but can't be assessed to being such by the very system hadith scholars use.
Yet everyone dismisses Sirah literature as some sort of virus to hadith narration because it actually does some form of valid historiography and a person dedicated their time to assess people's testimony.
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>>2693074
the only ones who think oral transmission isn't superior are people who work with written transmission
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>>2693050
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragment_on_the_Arab_Conquests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebeos
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>>2693069
>>2693082
>>2693096
So how does Oral tradition tell us how NOBODY mentions Mecca's for 100 years? the Koran says it is was trade hub, and then tell me how when the Koran describes Mecca it is in fact describing Petra? Being the most holy city in your religion it should be pretty fucking easy to know at least a general idea of what it looks like.
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>>2693050
Jay smith has been refuted time and time again on Youtube, look at those as well.
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>>2694467
>Petra
Because it is also a holy site, and people can change their fucking minds?
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>>2694853
So the infallible word of God changed its mind?
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>>2694856
Yes? Why are atheists so fucking rigid in their thinking holy shit.
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The Qibla was fucking Jerusalem you retards, this isn't any obscure knowledge, it's literally written in the Quran that it later changed to Mecca
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THE CROSS WAS ACTUALLY OFFENSIVE AS A SYMBOL TO EARLY CHRISTIANS
IT ONLY BECAME THE OFFICIAL SYMBOL A FEW HUNDRED YEARS LATER
BEFORE THAT, THEY PREFERRED GREEK SYMBOLS SUCH AS THE ICHTHYS, OR CHI-RHO
SIMILARLY, EARLY MUSLIMS DID NOT FORMALIZE EVERYTHING UNTIL LATER (CALIPHATES HAD THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE LAWS AS LONG AS THEY DID NOT CONTRADICT THE QURAN)
THIS DOES NOT IN ANY WAY UNDERMINE THE RESPECTIVE RELIGIONS. THE SUPREME COURT, FOR EXAMPLE, IS FAR MORE UNDERMINING TO THE CONSTITUTION
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>>2694890
>SIMILARLY, EARLY MUSLIMS DID NOT FORMALIZE EVERYTHING UNTIL LATER (CALIPHATES HAD THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE LAWS AS LONG AS THEY DID NOT CONTRADICT THE QURAN)
The Quran wasn't made until after like 8 Caliphs, for all we know the Quran Umar heard is completely different from the one that Malik had written down.
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>>2695045
5. And earlier versions may have existed that were destroyed after the "official" koran was made.
Really, the koran was organized pretty quick compared to other holy books.
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>>2695045
That's wrong. Abu Bakr assembled everyone who remembers the content of the Quran / wrote it down and that council had the first Quran written down. Malik just started the initiative to add the diacritics.
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>>2695045
EACH CALIPH IS A REPRESENTATIVE OF MOHAMMAD, IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY GENERATIONS PASSED
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>>2693074
>Origins of the Illiad (before Homer): Catalogue of Ships, Achilles Shield, and other parts where the meter is slightly different
>What was the Torah before exile into Babylon?
>Native Peoples
and so on.
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