Opening of UN files on Holocaust will 'rewrite chapters

protip: one of these files say the holocaust never happened. The /pol/ brigadiers will be disappointed.

>>2682789
none of these files*

>Opening of UN files on Holocaust will 'rewrite chapters of history

Between this and that recent study which showed evidence for a much larger system of camps and detention centers for Jewish people and other 'undesirables,' I have a feeling that the biggest rewrite will be that German people--along with people in Nazi-occupied nations--will no longer be able to claim they "knew nothing."

>>2682772

>MORE JEWS DIED THAN THOUGHT
>GERMAN PEOPLE WERE TRICKED, KNEW NOTHING
>RUSSIA AND IRAN HAD A ROLE

Check it.

>>2682789
>>2682794
SHUT IT DOWN

>>2682803
I don't think that claim was ever justified tbqh, even though most Germans had no idea just how bad it was.

>>2682803
pretty much this.

>>2682772
Oy vey goyim it was actually 10 gazillion Jews

>>2682772
How long they gonna milk this?

>>2682945
>believing Soviet war atrocity fanfiction
I don't see this reversion lasting without guilty whites. I don't think it will influence in Europe as it becomes more Mohameddan.

>>2682875
I think for many people it was forced ignorance and forced naivety.

Like--oh, they couldn't possibly be doing that! Even when everything else (starting from the early laws restricting Jews to anti-Jewish pamphlets/books/speeches/policies to Jewish people disappearing and/or being marched out of towns to rumors and news of Jewish people being sent here and there, forced to work, reports of people seeing packed trains, emaciated prisoners being transported, etc) has piled up.

>>2683005
None of that indicates mass extermination

>>2682789
This. /pol/ will cry about fake documents for years.

>>2682803
Id like to know which study your talking about but it's not relevant anyway since the existence of concentration camps was well known, this is nothing new and people didn't deny knowledge of the existence of concentration camps. The question is how informed people were about death camps and Einsatzgruppen.

>>2683021
It doesn't have to indicate extermination on a mass scale, which people as a whole struggle to comprehend. But it does indicate that something was happening to them.

When you live in a country which legally begins to condone dehumanizing and assaulting Jewish people, then see that the Jewish people in your town or city are rounded up and taken away, and you either see yourself or know people who have seen them put into packed train cars with no provisions, or have seen/heard about truck and wagon loads of thin, poorly treated prisoners being transported to various places for labor, then you hear rumors around town about what happened to the Jews, and you never ever see any trace of the Jewish people who lived in your town again... it's forced ignorance when you say "Oh, but I never knew anything!"

And that's not even taking into context the with recent study which showed that the network of concentration camps and other centers where undesirables were held and/or killed was much larger than people believed. Hardly any area of Germany existed where there wasn't something--whether it was a temporary transit camp which was later demolished, a "hospital" aka killing center for disabled people or the mentally ill, a factory for slave workers, a neighborhood farm where slave workers were brought in, etc--that people would have seen or known about or heard about at the very least.

>>2683070
>it does indicate that something was happening to them.
Yeah, this is not controversial. The narrative was that the Jews were deported to the East. The rest was rumors, of which there were many.

It's also not a new discovery that Germans knew about forced labor, almost every village had POWs or civilian forced laborers doing farm work or helping in the household. But that's not the holocaust.

>>2683045
>Id like to know which study your talking about but it's not relevant anyway since the existence of concentration camps was well known, this is nothing new and people didn't deny knowledge of the existence of concentration camps. The question is how informed people were about death camps and Einsatzgruppen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/sunday-review/the-holocaust-just-got-more-shocking.html

Or you can read the first parts of the published study, which is slowly making its way online: https://www.ushmm.org/research/publications/encyclopedia-camps-ghettos

After the war, particularly after the 1950s when the prosecution of Nazis and the rebuilding of relationships with Germany were taking priority over prosecuting Nazi crimes, it became the common claim: we didn't know it was happening. It has even been a commonly accepted fact by most historians--that they didn't know people were being killed, they didn't know about the conditions of the camps, if they even knew about them at all.

It's not universal of course. There's an interesting article published in 1947, based on a publication entitled Report on the Germans, where the author interviewed a number of Germans right after the war and found that most would admit that they knew something, especially if they had someone who was serving and returned on leave with stories about witnessing atrocities. I've found in my research that immediately post-war people were more willing to admit things like that, compared to years later when they wanted to disassociate themselves from any sort of guilt or compliance.

Anyway. It's hard to maintain that claim when the number goes from about 7,000 centers to 42,000 documented centers--ranging from concentration camps, death camps, transit camps, ghettos, hospital centers, prisons, slave borthels, repeated killing fields and grounds, forced labor camps, slave factories and farms, and so on.

a lot of the evidence of the holocaust was provided by the Soviets. the soviets had every reason to alter and present false evidence against the nazi regime.

Will this be the coup de Grace against the festering corpse that is the Germanic race?

>>2683146
The Soviets tried to downplay the holocaust. They wanted to portray the Nazis as evil beasts killing Soviet people, so they never mentioned that the Jews were their main target.

>>2683136
>Anyway. It's hard to maintain that claim when the number goes from about 7,000 centers to 42,000 documented centers--ranging from concentration camps, death camps, transit camps, ghettos, hospital centers, prisons, slave borthels, repeated killing fields and grounds, forced labor camps, slave factories and farms, and so on.

Again: It's not controversial that the existence of concentration camps and forced labor was well known, pointing to the fact that numerous of these sites were located in Germany is redundant.

The question is about how well known the holocaust as such, which was executed in the East, was. Most modern historians seem to give a nuanced answer, I'm on my phone now, I might post more in a few hours.

>>2683213
Until Stalin purged the jews after the war, the Soviet government was jewish.

>>2683284
>The question is about how well known the holocaust as such, which was executed in the East, was.

Why are you determining that this is the question? That's not what I was talking about.

>>2682772

Oy vey remember the 90 billion

when will they drop? whats the date

>>2683312
Stalin's purges happened before the war. And Jewish communists were mostly atheists. The Soviet Union was against all religious groups, they closed synagogues and wanted to assimilate Jews into the Soviet society.
Yevsektsiyas were sections of the party created to destroy traditional Jewish culture and Zionism.

>>2683213
More importantly, they realized that a lot of the less "holocaust-y" parts of the holocaust - mass deportations, extrajudicial killings on a ridiculous scale, and abhorrent treatment of prisoners - were uncomfortably close to what the Soviets themselves had done. They actually worked hard to downplay the holocaust not only within the USSR, but their satellites states as well.

East Germany was actually a big hub for holocaust denial after the reunification of the country thanks to that - their education system on that side of the wall tried to downplay the holocaust.

> Renowned historian Hugh Trevor-Roper reviewed Irving's most controversial work, Hitler 's War, and neatly encapsulated the world of David Irving:

> Mr. Irving's essential point is that it is 'hard to establish a documentary link' between Hitler and the extermination program. This is certainly true. That whole program was veiled in secrecy and carried out at a safe distance. Himmler himself explicitly forbade all discussion of it and if it had to be mentioned, it was always disguised as 'resettlement' or 'transport to the east.' Therefore, we should not expect it to appear openly in formal documents Indeed, it is because of this official silence that our new anti-Semites brazenly declare that the Jews were not exterminated at all.

$100 says the new evidence is merely more mentions of resettlement. Don't forget to test the paper & the ink. $200 says they'll all be PDFs with no availability to test the original documents.

>>2682803
> "knew nothing."

The more evidence that comes out relating to wartime deaths the more it will prove that people did horrible shit to people, not necessarily that people knew about systematic extermination ordered from the top down. Will be interesting to read no doubt, this place will be cancer for a while.

>>2685124
>resettlement just meant resettlement
>dude what are you talking about people lived beyond the urals for hundreds of years of course starving Jews can do it

>>2685124
>$200 says they'll all be PDFs with no availability to test the original documents.

So... what are you expecting them to do? A VR experience where you can pretend to handle the real documents? Of course they'll be PDF scans.

>>2683213
this

>>2685216
The documents be made public in certain archives where they can be looked after? Otherwise how could anyone else verify their authenticity, you just know extremists would dismiss them as a potentially new wave of propaganda.

File: ika_musume_002_madotsuki_parody.jpg (203KB, 1250x1250px) Image search: [Google]

203KB, 1250x1250px

>>2685246
Are there really laymen that expect to just get access to archive material? Do you know how sensitive archive material needs to be handled?

Just thinking back to some of the shit I've seen like tourists' greasy fat fingers touching the most beautiful marble sculptures in Rome, which permanently blacks the marble, makes me want to puke.

PDFs are more than good enough for you. Authenticity can be confirmed by independent commissions.

>>2685287
> Authenticity can be confirmed by independent commissions.

That's my point, will they be available for people to request commissions on authenticity?

>>2685302
Laymen? No. Historians? Just like usually.

>>2685246
Yeah, this'll look like convenient propaganda that could have been released 30 years ago, but they purposefully waited until nationalism made a comeback.

>>2685324
Not if it's fake, that would be the point. In that case it has nothing to do with holding anything back if by some chance they throw in a few fakies.

>>2683356
They literally made a Jewish state in the Soviet Union.

Come on anon.

>>2683136
Morris Janowitz-German Reactions to Nazi Atrocities. Sep 1946
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic499800.files/Janowitz%20on%20Nazi%20Atrocities.pdf

>>2685246
>Otherwise how could anyone else verify their authenticity, you just know extremists would dismiss them as a potentially new wave of propaganda.

Oh darn, won't someone think of the opinions of Nazi extremists???

>>2685753

This. Even if they did open the archive to every mouthbreathing tard who wanted to manhandle the documents, """people""" like this would still claim the paper "felt fake" or some similar brilliant piece of analysis.

File: DT.1942_06_25.jpg (199KB, 460x1205px) Image search: [Google]

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Report published in the Daily Telegraph, London 25 June 1942

>>2685753
lol
Certajnly worked for the Catholic church when it came to stamping out Protestantism!

>>2685785

Remind me again what documents the Catholics kept from the Protestants?

>>2683356
>And Jewish communists were mostly atheists.
That doesn't really mean anything as Judaism is one of the few religions that are compatible with atheism.

Notice you never hear about "atheist Christians", "atheist Muslims", or " "atheist Hindus", only "atheist Jews".

>>2685794
The Bible.
:^)

>>2685816

So you agree that these two situations are completely dissimilar and that your analogy was shit?

>>2685823
No.
:3

>>2685246
Maybe it is because legitimate historians don't want to put sources and evidence at risk by allowing randos to touch and look at it just to try and shut down the views of extremists who will deny it and make excuses anyway?

>>2685811
>Notice you never hear about "atheist Christians", "atheist Muslims", or " "atheist Hindus", only "atheist Jews".
probably because Jew is also a term for a race of people while there is no christian, muslim, or hindu race, you fucking idiot

>>2685766

>700,000 people killed is the largest slaughter in history

Fucking what? Did they just forget the Holodomor and Armenian Genocide?

>>2685870
One could argue that "atheist Sikh" would be possible, since "Sikh" is both theological and biological, similar to "Jew".

>>2685903

Neither of those featured any single slaughters anywhere near that size, you dumb cunt.

>>2685903
>One could argue that "atheist Sikh" would be possible, since "Sikh" is both theological and biological, similar to "Jew".
probably but he didn't mention sikhs in his list

>>2685600
See this? This is the problem with many people. You are a victim of /pol/ brainwashing. Yes they created Jewish Autonomous Oblast, but you know what they also created? Chechen Autonomous Oblast, Ingush Autonomous Oblast, Kalmyk Autonomous Oblast. In Belorussian SSR there was even Polish Autonomous District.
Pretending to be tolerant and good for minorities was part of Soviet Union's policy. In real life their religious life was getting destroyed and the Soviet propagandists worked hard to make them integrate with the new Soviet country.

/pol/ of course only mentions Jewish Autonomous Oblast because similar 'countries' for Kalmyks, Chechens or Ossetians don't fit their narrative.

>>2685870
>>2685811

If you live in a Christian country and are an atheist then you're a "Christian atheist". People don;t feel the need to specify because it goes without saying that's what they mean. A pure atheist would be something like a buddhist, or someone raised in complete ignorance of religion in a bunker or something.

>>2685246
Extremists dismiss all evidence, so who cares?

>>2682875
Germans knew eugenics has happening. Ich Klage An made that clear when the nazis made rheir move towards aktiont4. German families near camps were complaining about noise, traffic and smell.

Were they fully aware of the horrors? Probably not, but they knew people were getting killed and incarcerated en-masse. It was a general policy of apathy.

>>2686019
kys

>>2682875
>even though most Germans had no idea just how bad it was

My Great-Grandpa told it to me like this:
"We didn't think it would happen, but we had hoped it would." He was young, it's kind of like edgy /pol/tards joking about how much they hoped the Jews would be killed, until it happened.

>>2682803
This has been the case for 70+ years though what with blaming it on the German people and shit anyway so it doesn't really change anything.

>>2682772
>as West Germany was transformed into a pivotal ally at the start of the cold war and use of the records was effectively suppressed.
>the holocaust was effectively suppressed
>quotes from the article focuses on how the Americans just didn't punish the Nazis enough and were wrongly focusing on fighting communism instead

I did have a laugh at this one

>>2688919
t. Arab

>>2685973
>and the Soviet propagandists worked hard to make them integrate with the new Soviet country.
>help people to integrate into a new society
>this is somehow supposed to be a bad thing

>>2688970
> dude why won't you just throw your traditions into the trash and let yourselves be absorbed into the blob

>>2689007

But the Soviet government supported local culture and traditions, just not religious superstition.

>>2689384
>the Soviet government supported local culture and traditions
AHAH HAH FUCKING HAH.

>>2689388

You're welcome to provide evidence of Czarist organisations to promote Kazakh/Belorussian/Ukrainian/whatever literature as a counterargument.

How assblasted is /his/ going to be if the documents state none of the alleged death camps were anything more than plain-old concentration camps?

>>2689399
>muh Czarist boogeyman
Nice moving the goalposts there faggotron

these thread are pointless
there are ppl who know what was the holocaust and how it happened
and then theres the uneducated polshits who cant stop yapping muh 6 gorillion

very few ppl inbetween, im afraid theyll have to read instead of checking these threads

>>2689402

The Soviet Union ruled over much of the same territory as Czarist Russia, and thus the policies of its government must naturally be compared to the Czar's.

>>2689388
>AHAH HAH FUCKING HAH
Ever heard of a autonomous republic or autonomous oblast. The Soviets set up dozens of them to preserve local sacred basket weaving traditions and dead languages.

>>2685154
>that people did horrible shit to people

>>2683538
>"holocaust-y" parts of the holocaust

At least if you can't stay on reddit improve the level of your discourse. If only you typed like this ironically.

>>2682789
Yes anon, brand new evidence to push into the minds of the public routinely being found, distracting from Israel's crimes and further advancing aims abroad.

>>2689437
You're just bored because there's no one left to talk to. You're empty.