What were ethnic relations like in the Caliphates over the years?

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>>2673411
Well a general rundown...
>ummayads: non-Arabs regarded as second class, with non-Muslim arabs of course at the bottom. HOWEVER they were generally left alone whilst being governed by Arabs.

>Abbasids: Generally all Muslims are equal HOWEVER greater pressure put to convert to Islam

hope that clears some things out

Correction*: non-muslims at the bottom *
no distinction was made between non-Muslim arabs and non-arabs in terms of lowliness

jee wizz i fucked up again
* no distinction between non muslim arabs and other non-Muslims

>>2673411
>Abrahamism

Islam*

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Initially it was like Arab supremacism

Still kinda is

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Since OP mentioned Islamic Spain, I believe he may find this extract on the issue interesting.

Source: Hitchcock, Richard. 'Mozarabs in Early and Medieval Spain'. 2008

>>2674982
Christianity attempts to do this, Judaism however doesn't (because Judaism is an ethno-religion). Islam and Christianity take this 'chosen people' Jewish supremacist tribalism and applies it to a spiritual in-group. Christians and Muslims in a way are a spiritual race, at least theoretically.

>>2673411
>'racism' and kin-preference is just innate and part of irrevocable Human nature

Nope.

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>>2676168

>this ingroup genetic preference that has been around forever since the dawn of time and is present in apes is A GRAND CONSPIRACY BY DA BORGOSSEE!!!!!!

>>>/reddit/

>>2676193

Zanj means negro. It may have begun as the proper name of a particular people, but later Pisslamic """scholars""" used it to mean any negro.

>>2676176
>hurr durr reddit

Ingroup/outgroup behavior is instinctive, but what those groups consist of is not. For example all those ancients you LARP as and identify with for being "white" would feel no kinship with you whatsoever. On the other hand you can easily join an ingroup by cheering on a particular football team, completely regardless of your ancestry.

Furthermore, just because something is instinctive doesn't mean it's unchangable. Killing a romantic rival is instinctive. But that sort of thing has been made 1000 times less commonplace in developed nations, to the point where most of us don't even walk around armed.

>>2676244
t. reddit

>For example all those ancients you LARP as and identify with for being "white" would feel no kinship with you whatsoever.

context denial. the ancient world was vastly more isolated, ergo, you had tribes/ethnicities solely identifying with themselves rather than extended gene-kinships. if you put 2 white ethnicities and 2 black ethnicities into a community, we'll see the confederations that became known as 'black' and 'white'. this is how ethnic tribalism moved to developing racial tribalism, not because of your reddit commie conspiracy theories.

>particular football team

certain in groups (biological ones) are stronger than others. that is why people always choose their ethnic/tribal interests over 'class' (a socially constructed group) which burns your butt a lot, and requires marxist conspiracy theorizing in the first place to rationalize.

>Furthermore, just because something is instinctive doesn't mean it's unchangable. Killing a romantic rival is instinctive. But that sort of thing has been made 1000 times less commonplace in developed nations, to the point where most of us don't even walk around armed.

myriad empires existed, ethnic tension always has won out. you can try to suppress this most primordial of instincts, but it will always fail. we can only look to how mass migration of completely different races and ethnic groups into white nations has panned out. turks in germany and the netherlands, despite being born there and having the government bending backwards to accomodate them, still identify with their ethnicity. blacks in the UK still identify as 'jamaican' or whatever west african ethnicity.

you can try to suppress this, it just doesn't work. for long.

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>>2676244
>>2676421

>>2673411
The Abbasids were highly dependent on the educated Persianate middleclass that managed all of their business and government. You pretty much had to use some sort of bureaucratic caste, and once the center of gravity of the Caliphate migrated to the East, Persians were a given. One of the most powerful vizier families of the Abbasid dynasty were Barmakids - Khalid ibn Barmak was a son of the Buddhist priest at the Nava Vihara temple in Balkh in modern Afghanistan. His descendants went on to serve several caliphs, including Harun al-Rashid, but were later brutally exterminated once they got too powerful.

A similar story happened with the Buyids, who were semi-barbarian mountain men from Mazanderan, who ended up ruling Fars and most of Iran, only nominally beholden to the caliph. Some of the emirs from the dynasty would routinely humiliate the caliphs who were mere figureheads at that time, and were coronated by the caliphs according to the Sassanid ritual, using the obviously pre-islamic title of shahanshah.

Then you had the Turkic warriors that served the caliphs, either as ghulams or mercenaries. They too ended up dominating the caliphate for some time in 9th century and running things their own way.